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Author Topic: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔  (Read 1525 times)

Offline Blacktail Sniper

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2023, 01:05:52 PM »
Thinning actually jump starts the damage again as the tree is released, which is why PCT is often delayed so that crown closure happens quicker and pushes the crown upwards and away from ground level where a bear's nose is most apt to identify it as a food source if there is a lot of tree growth there.

The bears removed under depredation permits was a small fraction of the state's bear harvest even when hounds were allowed.  Someone ought to do a FOIA to see how many permits have been sought, and how much success there has been since WDFW went to boot hunt only depredation  permits. I'd bet success could be counted on your two hands, maybe even one hand. 

Also, trees aren't the only thing these bears feed on through the spring months, it's just the easiest for them. They hammer fawns in particular, but also calves once they drop.  Every bear removed via damage is also saving other wildlife at the same time.  A win-win...

Bellyaching about this is like cutting your nose off to spite your face... Makes sense...

You seem very well informed on this subject, why don't you do the public records request and let us know what you find?
It is better to be consistently incorrect than inconsistently correct...

Sarcasm: The ability to insult stupid people without them realizing it. 

My level of sarcasm depends on your level of stupidity...

Sarcasm makes smart people laugh and stupid people mad.

Offline jrebel

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2023, 01:09:35 PM »
If precedence has been set....in theory, WDFW could give out depredation permits to private land owners, timber companies and possibly even on state / federal land to protect fawn and calves in the spring????  Or am I just dreaming??   

Offline Alan K

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2023, 05:12:21 PM »
Thinning actually jump starts the damage again as the tree is released, which is why PCT is often delayed so that crown closure happens quicker and pushes the crown upwards and away from ground level where a bear's nose is most apt to identify it as a food source if there is a lot of tree growth there.

The bears removed under depredation permits was a small fraction of the state's bear harvest even when hounds were allowed.  Someone ought to do a FOIA to see how many permits have been sought, and how much success there has been since WDFW went to boot hunt only depredation  permits. I'd bet success could be counted on your two hands, maybe even one hand. 

Also, trees aren't the only thing these bears feed on through the spring months, it's just the easiest for them. They hammer fawns in particular, but also calves once they drop.  Every bear removed via damage is also saving other wildlife at the same time.  A win-win...

Bellyaching about this is like cutting your nose off to spite your face... Makes sense...

You seem very well informed on this subject, why don't you do the public records request and let us know what you find?

Because I'm already informed.  Of the group of foresters that I know, NONE of their respective companies went beyond seeing what a depredation permit would look like. The chances of success are slim to none. 

The information is out there for the uninformed to educate themselves before forming their opinion. Just pick up the phone and ask WDFW, and if they're coy about it, force their hand.

Offline Alan K

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2023, 05:28:54 PM »
Thinning actually jump starts the damage again as the tree is released, which is why PCT is often delayed so that crown closure happens quicker and pushes the crown upwards and away from ground level where a bear's nose is most apt to identify it as a food source if there is a lot of tree growth there.

The bears removed under depredation permits was a small fraction of the state's bear harvest even when hounds were allowed.  Someone ought to do a FOIA to see how many permits have been sought, and how much success there has been since WDFW went to boot hunt only depredation  permits.  I'd bet success could be counted on your two hands, maybe even one hand. 

Also, trees aren't the only thing these bears feed on through the spring months, it's just the easiest for them. They hammer fawns in particular, but also calves once they drop.  Every bear removed via damage is also saving other wildlife at the same time.  A win-win...

Bellyaching about this is like cutting your nose off to spite your face... Makes sense...
Putting a band-aid on top of a band-aid is what a feed barrel is.
I'm sure you are correct ,trapping with snares,and hounds are way more effective.
I can't remember which units on the West it was.
But wasn't timber company reducing boot hunter permits,just so they could use depredation permits.
When there was a recreational season.
You can't limit access to areas with damage for boot hunters and expect it to be more effective than trapping or hounds.
Or even come close to it.
I'm not gonna support an animal be left to rot cause it ate a tree.
I'm sorry I just wasn't raised that way.

Like anything, there isn't a one size fits all solution for bear damage.  Feeding absolutely satisfies some bears, I'd even say a majority of bears in getting through the spring months without hammering timber.  Does it stop it all? Of course not.

It absolutely does reduce damage when done correctly.  Boars will often hog a feeder causing the rest of the concentrated bears to seek food sources around the feeder which often times means timber. A second feeder in those cases must be added a few hundred yards away so that he cannot lay claim to both at once.

Most companies hire the labor of stocking feeders out, and I seriously doubt that someone paid to lug sacks of feed to feeders is paying attention and reading the sign to the level that a forester trying to protect his timber would. 

The Kapowsin spring bear permits went away last I think, maybe others too in that time frame due to dismal results, not only poor success, but not actually reducing damage.
Something like 150 permits and 10ish bears taken over a couple months.  The bears taken were almost certainly out in harvest units pulling stumps, or feeding on roadside grasses. That's great for the hunters and helping reduce bear populations, but doesn't do anything for bear damage. Those bears aren't the problem ones that depredation intentions are meant to target. 

Recreation hunting and depredation removals should not even be in the same conversation.  One does not replace the other, and populations are in no jeopardy in having either.

Not sure what you're taking about with animals being left to rot? Look up WDFW's rules post removal, they have to donate hides, turn over gall bladders, and donate the meat (though there was talk of people being able to keep meat I think if taken during a boot hunt?). If you know of any violation, I hope you turned it in.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 05:52:19 PM by Alan K »

Offline Torrent50

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2023, 11:45:17 AM »
I did an FOI request to the USDA APHIS section last year about the number of bears that they or their contractors killed.  They provided me with a response that showed between May 2020 and July 2021 they had taken out 47 black bears.  My request covered the entire state of WA, but their records indicated that the only bears taken were from Skagit, Pacific, Grays Harbor, Thurston, Cowlitz, and Lewis Counties.  Those numbers don't really line up with information that I was told by a Fish and Game Sgt about the numbers taken out from a particular area in Pacific/Lewis county, so I really don't know how accurately this stuff is reported to them.  Getting good numbers is probably next to impossible to do.

Just tossing the info out there so that it's available, for what it's worth.
"when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche

Offline WSU

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2023, 11:52:32 AM »
This is from 2019. 

Offline elkh8me

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2023, 08:57:45 PM »
The anti hunting groups seem to be fine with protecting trees if that includes killing bears.

Hunting bears for Harvest are no-no's.

You can not use either of those H words and get any headway with them.
I agree with that.
I was trying to read the CR thingy that goes with this.
I'm not sure if this is for hunters,or just a rule change to give more agricultural trapping permits out.

I can't really figure it out.
It will not be for hunter it will apply to timber land owners hiring folks to take care of the “issue” causing damage to the trees.

Offline PsoasHunter

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2023, 09:09:59 PM »
This is from 2019.

Dang it. Thank you for pointing this out, I wish this was one of the first comments instead of page 2...

Offline Alan K

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2023, 07:14:15 AM »
The pre-proposal was filed in 2019, I believe in response to the lawsuit. The program has been in flux since then, and they're finally moving forward with it.

Offline Alan K

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2023, 07:25:42 AM »
I did an FOI request to the USDA APHIS section last year about the number of bears that they or their contractors killed.  They provided me with a response that showed between May 2020 and July 2021 they had taken out 47 black bears.  My request covered the entire state of WA, but their records indicated that the only bears taken were from Skagit, Pacific, Grays Harbor, Thurston, Cowlitz, and Lewis Counties.  Those numbers don't really line up with information that I was told by a Fish and Game Sgt about the numbers taken out from a particular area in Pacific/Lewis county, so I really don't know how accurately this stuff is reported to them.  Getting good numbers is probably next to impossible to do.

Just tossing the info out there so that it's available, for what it's worth.

Bear in mind APHIS is federal, and WDFW is state. While they share information at a high level, I'd be shocked if an officer had any hard numbers. They are (or were years ago and I assume still) notified of active permits so that they could keep an eye on folks, but were in no way the repository for removal numbers.

Offline Torrent50

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Re: Is this a new bear season or what.🤔
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2023, 06:44:48 PM »
I did an FOI request to the USDA APHIS section last year about the number of bears that they or their contractors killed.  They provided me with a response that showed between May 2020 and July 2021 they had taken out 47 black bears.  My request covered the entire state of WA, but their records indicated that the only bears taken were from Skagit, Pacific, Grays Harbor, Thurston, Cowlitz, and Lewis Counties.  Those numbers don't really line up with information that I was told by a Fish and Game Sgt about the numbers taken out from a particular area in Pacific/Lewis county, so I really don't know how accurately this stuff is reported to them.  Getting good numbers is probably next to impossible to do.

Just tossing the info out there so that it's available, for what it's worth.

Bear in mind APHIS is federal, and WDFW is state. While they share information at a high level, I'd be shocked if an officer had any hard numbers. They are (or were years ago and I assume still) notified of active permits so that they could keep an eye on folks, but were in no way the repository for removal numbers.

His info came from a person he usually donates bears that he has to remove to.  He called her up and she couldn't take anymore because she had just taken 15 in from a USDA trapper.
"when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."  Friedrich Nietzsche

 


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