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Author Topic: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates  (Read 8502 times)

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #45 on: May 29, 2023, 11:13:46 AM »
Some interesting/worrying comments.

Does anyone actually think it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait?

No, it isn't and I haven't read anyone here saying that it was.


You should probably read the thread....

I did read the thread. Can you point out the number of the Reply where someone actually stated that "it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait". I missed that part.......
you missed a couple then, maybe not put in Exact words, but it’s there.
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #46 on: May 29, 2023, 11:15:07 AM »
Some interesting/worrying comments.

Does anyone actually think it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait?

No, it isn't and I haven't read anyone here saying that it was.


You should probably read the thread....

I did read the thread. Can you point out the number of the Reply where someone actually stated that "it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait". I missed that part.......

I don't think too many have used that exact language, but there is a lot of excuses and beating around the bush that it's more or less not a concern for someone to hunt another person's bait. I know that I certainly learned a lot about some people's views, and it's pretty disappointing.

My son and I have been getting messages and phone calls from other hunters and outfitters, it's more of a widespread problem than I realized, most likely I will be offering some revised language to update the baiting law, it may or may not get traction, but Idaho is pretty proactive about hunting laws and IDFG is aware of the increasing problem of hunters hunting baits that belong to another hunter. Some very simple modifications of the language will make the law very enforceable.
I was surprised myself, had to read their post twice to confirm.
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #47 on: May 29, 2023, 01:14:41 PM »
One of the issues that makes this a difficult problem to enforce: its on public land...so to suggest placing a bait on public gives anyone exclusive hunting access/rights on public...well, it's just a tough thing to address without creating a bigger mess.

I do not condone people intentionally sitting at another hunter's bear bait...but I've bear baited for decades in Idaho and its always been a possibility on public land...not too common if you keep your bait away from roads.  The bigger issue is actually hound hunters finding and running your baits.  :twocents:

As far as folks proposing new language...good luck. Maybe something can be drafted...but honestly, I fear it will just draw more attention to the practice which is not a wise idea when it comes to the future of baiting on federal lands.  Furthermore, anything that allows exclusive use of public lands is just going to be a hard sell.  Leave the laws as is and public shaming of claim jumpers would be my preferred route. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline Fidelk

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #48 on: May 29, 2023, 02:02:50 PM »
One of the issues that makes this a difficult problem to enforce: its on public land...so to suggest placing a bait on public gives anyone exclusive hunting access/rights on public...well, it's just a tough thing to address without creating a bigger mess.

I do not condone people intentionally sitting at another hunter's bear bait...but I've bear baited for decades in Idaho and its always been a possibility on public land...not too common if you keep your bait away from roads.  The bigger issue is actually hound hunters finding and running your baits.  :twocents:

As far as folks proposing new language...good luck. Maybe something can be drafted...but honestly, I fear it will just draw more attention to the practice which is not a wise idea when it comes to the future of baiting on federal lands.  Furthermore, anything that allows exclusive use of public lands is just going to be a hard sell.  Leave the laws as is and public shaming of claim jumpers would be my preferred route.

This makes total sense......it's a drag but what are you gonna do.

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #49 on: May 29, 2023, 02:05:03 PM »
Some interesting/worrying comments.

Does anyone actually think it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait?

No, it isn't and I haven't read anyone here saying that it was.


You should probably read the thread....

I did read the thread. Can you point out the number of the Reply where someone actually stated that "it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait". I missed that part.......

I don't think too many have used that exact language, but there is a lot of excuses and beating around the bush that it's more or less not a concern for someone to hunt another person's bait. I know that I certainly learned a lot about some people's views, and it's pretty disappointing.

My son and I have been getting messages and phone calls from other hunters and outfitters, it's more of a widespread problem than I realized, most likely I will be offering some revised language to update the baiting law, it may or may not get traction, but Idaho is pretty proactive about hunting laws and IDFG is aware of the increasing problem of hunters hunting baits that belong to another hunter. Some very simple modifications of the language will make the law very enforceable.
I was surprised myself, had to read their post twice to confirm.

I don’t see why they couldn’t borrow some language from trapping laws, specifically messing with traps which is pretty similar to messing with someone’s hunting stand, and perhaps to go further require all stands on public to be posted with hunter registration numbers, just like traps have to be

Edit:  I’m talking about semi-permanent stands let unattended
« Last Edit: May 29, 2023, 02:15:04 PM by KFhunter »

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #50 on: May 29, 2023, 02:11:18 PM »
One of the issues that makes this a difficult problem to enforce: its on public land...so to suggest placing a bait on public gives anyone exclusive hunting access/rights on public...well, it's just a tough thing to address without creating a bigger mess.

I do not condone people intentionally sitting at another hunter's bear bait...but I've bear baited for decades in Idaho and its always been a possibility on public land...not too common if you keep your bait away from roads.  The bigger issue is actually hound hunters finding and running your baits.  :twocents:

As far as folks proposing new language...good luck. Maybe something can be drafted...but honestly, I fear it will just draw more attention to the practice which is not a wise idea when it comes to the future of baiting on federal lands.  Furthermore, anything that allows exclusive use of public lands is just going to be a hard sell.  Leave the laws as is and public shaming of claim jumpers would be my preferred route.

This makes total sense......it's a drag but what are you gonna do.

idahohuntr made some valid points that need to be considered but I think he has reached the wrong conclusion. The act of baiting and rules pertaining to hunting are guided by state law. I would argue that Idaho has the authority to adjust the current baiting rules without needing to consult the USFS. Nobody wants to restrict access, we simply need a few small changes to the state code on baiting. The state doesn't restrict access, but they do already restrict hunting with seasons and all sorts of rules throughout the year.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline Fidelk

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #51 on: May 29, 2023, 02:14:20 PM »
Some interesting/worrying comments.

Does anyone actually think it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait?

No, it isn't and I haven't read anyone here saying that it was.


You should probably read the thread....

I did read the thread. Can you point out the number of the Reply where someone actually stated that "it's OK for a guy to hunt someone else's bear bait". I missed that part.......

I don't think too many have used that exact language, but there is a lot of excuses and beating around the bush that it's more or less not a concern for someone to hunt another person's bait. I know that I certainly learned a lot about some people's views, and it's pretty disappointing.

My son and I have been getting messages and phone calls from other hunters and outfitters, it's more of a widespread problem than I realized, most likely I will be offering some revised language to update the baiting law, it may or may not get traction, but Idaho is pretty proactive about hunting laws and IDFG is aware of the increasing problem of hunters hunting baits that belong to another hunter. Some very simple modifications of the language will make the law very enforceable.

Let me be 100% clear. I agree with you that it is an offense against you when you put in work and someone who has not put in any work, slides in and harvests the fruits of your labor. It is theft.......however, the nature of the theft may not be clearly codified in Law. You have a clear interest in getting this law defined more clearly.......I hope you obtain it.

I'm reading this thread because I find it instructional......if I come across any prepared blinds/sites out in the woods while hunting, I will immediately distance myself from them. I think posters here are sympathetic to your situation, I don't think anyone has stated that other hunters have a right to sit over your bait sites. I think it's more a matter of discussion about the problems of stopping such acts of opportunistic theft.

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #52 on: May 29, 2023, 02:37:36 PM »
There are already rules and limitations on placing and hunting bait. Adding two sentences (in blue) to the code fixes it for all hunters in Idaho so enforcement can act when someone hunts a bait they should not be hunting:

https://adminrules.idaho.gov/rules/current/13/130117.pdf

IDAPA 13 – IDAHO DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME
Wildlife Bureau
13.01.17 – Rules Governing Use of Bait for Hunting Big Game Animals

BAITING PERMIT.
01. Baiting Permit. (3-31-22)
a. Baiting permits are issued by mail or in person from Department offices beginning March 1 of each
year. (3-31-22)
b. Baiting permits are valid for the calendar year in which they are issued. (3-31-22)
02. Use of Baiting Permit. (3-31-22)
a. All persons placing bait must possess a baiting permit issued by the Department. (3-31-22)
b. Each hunter may possess only one (1) baiting permit each year and may maintain up to three (3)
bait sites, except the number of bait sites maintained by outfitters will be that specified by the land management
agency in the outfitter’s operating plan. (3-31-22)
c. No person may hunt over an unlawful bait site. (3-31-22)
d. Any person hunting a bait must have one of their bait tags displayed at the bait and may not add their tag to an already tagged bait without possessing written permission from the person who has already established and tagged an active bait.
e. No person shall place a bait within ____ hundred yards of a known active bait site.
d. f. Guides and clients of outfitters are exempt from possessing a baiting permit, provided they have a
copy of the outfitter’s permit in their possession while placing bait or hunting over the outfitter’s permitted bait site.



Nothing there restricts anyone from walking past the bait or even stopping and looking at the bait, but it would be illegal to hunt someone else's bait without permission from the person who established the active bait. Also no one is prevented from establishing their own bait if there happens to be an abandoned or inactive previous bait site nearby.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2023, 02:44:45 PM by bearpaw »
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Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2023, 02:47:10 PM »
Sounds like this guy was clearly in the wrong.  That being said, I'm curious.  What exactly is the definition of "hunting over bait"? Is it a certain distance? Within eyesight of the bait?
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2023, 03:06:59 PM »
Sounds like this guy was clearly in the wrong.  That being said, I'm curious.  What exactly is the definition of "hunting over bait"? Is it a certain distance? Within eyesight of the bait?

I don't think IDFG has a specific definition of hunting at a bait site, their code is very simply worded, I think it allows for officer discretion?
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Offline dilleytech

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2023, 12:17:31 PM »
I could see how easy it would be to accidentally kill a bear on someone’s bait then walk up and realize it was on a bait or walking to a bait after the fact. And have it look like you were intentionally hunting someone else’s bait but getting up in a stand is pretty wildly unethical.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2023, 10:47:12 PM »
Are there any rules regarding setting a bait near another hunters legal bait?  I had a crew set a bait on a good site that I had been baiting for years in the NF CDA.   They walked right past my sight (within 10m) and set up below it on the ridge.  That was a couple years ago but still bothers me that "my site" has been taken over. 

Offline GWP

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2023, 08:13:48 AM »
Then it gets to 'what is enough distance' from someone's area? IF they even know it is there? Next ridge? 1/4 mile? 100 yards?

I was hunting waterfowl in a remote area I had been to many times that is a couple miles in. The smallish lake is pretty long, but there is only a couple good places to hide and hunt from.
Being very quiet, I got to the spot I preferred and got settled in, in case there was any birds sitting on the lake, and waited for it to get light.
After sitting a bit it was just getting light enough I noticed rings in the water coming from a spot out of my sight up the lake and below me. I moved a bit closer, thinking it was birds by the shore, but realized it was someone tossing small rocks in the water (same thing I do) and then I could hear faint whispers. No vehicle by the trail I used to come in, so I would guess we came in from different directions.
Well crap.
I was pretty surprised as I had never seen anyone there before, but there it was. Now what? I am certain they never knew I was there.
It really (in my opinion) is too small to support two groups without taking a chance of screwing up someones hunt, so I pulled out of the area.
I am sure some would have stayed anyway, as it was on public lands and a long walk in. I am also sure if I had shot there would have been some upset folks down there.

So what is enough room for baiting? The more people hunting and setting baits, the more chance you have of 'accidently' hunting 'someone's area'.
Granted, the OP's situation is pretty cut and dried as far as knowing the bait was there, and the guy was wrong hunting over a marked bait. What distance is enough on a known bait? What if the guy that has been setting the area was a day later in getting his stuff out and finds someone else's baits in his area?
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Offline KFhunter

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2023, 09:05:25 AM »
It just comes to ethics which is unfortunately in decline right along with society as a whole

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Illegally hunting our bait in Idaho, photo of truck with WA plates
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2023, 09:26:57 AM »
WAcoyotehunter and GWP there are no doubt a lot of bait sites used every year, every bait permit holder gets three bait tags so probably two or three times as many bait sites as bait permits sold, that factor in itself almost guarantees there's going to be conflicts somewhere. The majority of hunters are ethical, avoid conflict, and show respect for other hunters, it's the characters that WAcoyote mentions and that we occasionally run into that cause the problems and why we need laws.

For example in most of Idaho you must be 200 yards from a road and 200 feet from surface water, in the Panhandle and Clearwater you only need to be 200 feet from roads, likely due to the much heavier cover. But if that rule didn't exist you can bet a few characters would back their truck off the side of the road and dump bait within site of travelable roads.

IMO rules are less about telling respectful hunters what to do, it's more about telling the few characters out there what they cannot do and giving law enforcement definitions to enforce. In the new rule I proposed, I purposely put  "____ hundred yards from a known active bait site" because I'm not sure what the answer is to that question. Maybe the best answer is 200 yards or 400 yards?
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