The ridiculousness of the Methow Valley and Mule deer

[mountainman]

More of Fitkin being mis-informed..

https://methowvalleynews.com/2023/09/21/praise-criticism-for-proposed-winter-wildlife-closures/?fbclid=IwAR1WILfY7n2HmzTi7--FRCwrrjKEkM3oIhicAxUZeBTuz8HLmQVELHCDMsI_aem_ATpOccKVdFafEo29z5qzPgrVFXs5SdJQwqJ_-kA4evJlT4aVnOMVtkK4CX2HZ_zxySQ&mibextid=9R9pXO

[Mtnwalker]

Care to elaborate?

[mountainman]

Care to elaborate?

If you read the posted article, the fact is the Methow herd is in dire shape for sure! The comments of hikers/snowshoers/c-country skiers taking the blame, along with fires (a whole nother topic) being the main cause for the decimation of the herds, with a passing comment on wolves and cougar and bear predation, the discontinuing of the feeding programs of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s barely mentioned. And the comment that the “town” deer are predominate whitetail and not mules, lends me to believe his boots on the ground research is lacking on a large scale. Managment has been failing these herds for the last few decades, and the blame is being pushed for sure!
Just my opinion from growing up, hunting this area, and sadly seeing this change…
Heart-breaking..

[LDennis24]

I think that area needs to have a restriction on land development. No more destroying stands of bitter brush or clearing land etc. And maybe even restrict any new building permits. If the land already has buildings you can build. If it doesn't, no building. That whole area should have been made into a reserve many many years ago. Like the Jackson Hole for Mule deer. 

[Mtnwalker]

Care to elaborate?

If you read the posted article, the fact is the Methow herd is in dire shape for sure! The comments of hikers/snowshoers/c-country skiers taking the blame, along with fires (a whole nother topic) being the main cause for the decimation of the herds, with a passing comment on wolves and cougar and bear predation, the discontinuing of the feeding programs of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s barely mentioned. And the comment that the “town” deer are predominate whitetail and not mules, lends me to believe his boots on the ground research is lacking on a large scale. Managment has been failing these herds for the last few decades, and the blame is being pushed for sure!
Just my opinion from growing up, hunting this area, and sadly seeing this change…
Heart-breaking..

Thanks for the clarification. I did read the article and agree with needing to limit recreation on some of this winter ground, but also agree that mismanagement is what got us here in the first place. I'm guessing we'll never see another deer feeding program in WA with CWD lingering. The comment about mule deer being important because they're the primary food source for wolves and lions is telling

[mountainman]

Care to elaborate?

If you read the posted article, the fact is the Methow herd is in dire shape for sure! The comments of hikers/snowshoers/c-country skiers taking the blame, along with fires (a whole nother topic) being the main cause for the decimation of the herds, with a passing comment on wolves and cougar and bear predation, the discontinuing of the feeding programs of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s barely mentioned. And the comment that the “town” deer are predominate whitetail and not mules, lends me to believe his boots on the ground research is lacking on a large scale. Managment has been failing these herds for the last few decades, and the blame is being pushed for sure!
Just my opinion from growing up, hunting this area, and sadly seeing this change…
Heart-breaking..

Thanks for the clarification. I did read the article and agree with needing to limit recreation on some of this winter ground, but also agree that mismanagement is what got us here in the first place. I'm guessing we'll never see another deer feeding program in WA with CWD lingering. The comment about mule deer being important because they're the primary food source for wolves and lions is telling

Very

[boneaddict]

You nailed it MM.  I doubt I’ll even go up there this fall.  Thank God for the memories

[mountainman]

You nailed it MM.  I doubt I’ll even go up there this fall.  Thank God for the memories

We were fortunate for sure Bone!

[bearhunter99]

Care to elaborate?

If you read the posted article, the fact is the Methow herd is in dire shape for sure! The comments of hikers/snowshoers/c-country skiers taking the blame, along with fires (a whole nother topic) being the main cause for the decimation of the herds, with a passing comment on wolves and cougar and bear predation, the discontinuing of the feeding programs of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s barely mentioned. And the comment that the “town” deer are predominate whitetail and not mules, lends me to believe his boots on the ground research is lacking on a large scale. Managment has been failing these herds for the last few decades, and the blame is being pushed for sure!
Just my opinion from growing up, hunting this area, and sadly seeing this change…
Heart-breaking..

Thanks for the clarification. I did read the article and agree with needing to limit recreation on some of this winter ground, but also agree that mismanagement is what got us here in the first place. I'm guessing we'll never see another deer feeding program in WA with CWD lingering. The comment about mule deer being important because they're the primary food source for wolves and lions is telling

Probably the most telling comment in the whole article. They wouldn't care about the populations if it weren't for the wolves...  They don't want the deer to be harvested by humans they just want enough in the ecosystem to feed their precious wolves

[LDennis24]

 

[Kascade_Killer]

Someone care to share what they know of Scott Fitkin’s perspective or management plan for the Methow herd? Maybe someone has a link to a management plan I can read up on.

After reading OP article I don’t know much about Fitkin (other then he’s been with wdfw for a long time), but I’m just glad there is a plan to support the herd. Bare minimum maybe some of the Methow locals (that aren’t totally irrational relocated Seattle-ites) will start to realize the impact of winter recreation and million dollar homes in the sagebrush have on the MD.

I didn’t have the fortune to hunt the Methow in its glory days but have family that have occupied the same wall tent spot since the 60’s without missing a year, if I mentioned our name many old timers would probably know of the camp. I grew up seeing pictures from old clippings of the local paper with our family holding 15 or more nice bucks. Now I know it will never be that again, but I’m glad Scott is making an effort to reverse or at least slow the extinction. The unfortunate part of it all is our WDFW bios can do their jobs, have grand plans, and restoration projects but as long as they don’t have the support from the commission they will continue to make it an uphill battle as they dump wolves & now  grizzlies into the state with no management plan in place.

I’m just a young buck (early 20s) compared to most on this forum and am probably missing a lot of the story behind the Methow herds downfall. That being said hopefully they can get this passed and it’s a stepping stone in at least awareness for the herd. Or better yet the for-mentioned irrational Seattle-ites relocate to Aspen,CO for their precious XC skiing.

[X-Force]

We as hunters should be advocating eliminating general season antlerless mule deer hunting and cutting back or eliminating draw antlerless mule deer tags.

Between development of the valley floor, at least 3 wolf packs and little to no management of cougars and bears I don’t doubt the herd is in bad shape.

Over the last 10 years I would see 3-10 legal bucks a day… 2 years ago I saw 1 legal buck a day. Last year 1 legal buck all season.

Closing areas during the winter will make minimal positive impact because the predators are still there.

[MtnMuley]

Closing that area is only allowing the predators to have an open table to what's left. It's right in the prime zone of the wintering grounds for the Lightning Ck. pack. This closure is about the absolute worst thing possible for the struggling muley herd there.

[wolfbait]

Care to elaborate?

If you read the posted article, the fact is the Methow herd is in dire shape for sure! The comments of hikers/snowshoers/c-country skiers taking the blame, along with fires (a whole nother topic) being the main cause for the decimation of the herds, with a passing comment on wolves and cougar and bear predation, the discontinuing of the feeding programs of the 60’s, 70’s, and 80’s barely mentioned. And the comment that the “town” deer are predominate whitetail and not mules, lends me to believe his boots on the ground research is lacking on a large scale. Managment has been failing these herds for the last few decades, and the blame is being pushed for sure!
Just my opinion from growing up, hunting this area, and sadly seeing this change…
Heart-breaking..

 

Someone care to share what they know of Scott Fitkin’s perspective or management plan for the Methow herd? Maybe someone has a link to a management plan I can read up on.

After reading OP article I don’t know much about Fitkin (other then he’s been with wdfw for a long time), but I’m just glad there is a plan to support the herd. Bare minimum maybe some of the Methow locals (that aren’t totally irrational relocated Seattle-ites) will start to realize the impact of winter recreation and million dollar homes in the sagebrush have on the MD.

I didn’t have the fortune to hunt the Methow in its glory days but have family that have occupied the same wall tent spot since the 60’s without missing a year, if I mentioned our name many old timers would probably know of the camp. I grew up seeing pictures from old clippings of the local paper with our family holding 15 or more nice bucks. Now I know it will never be that again, but I’m glad Scott is making an effort to reverse or at least slow the extinction. The unfortunate part of it all is our WDFW bios can do their jobs, have grand plans, and restoration projects but as long as they don’t have the support from the commission they will continue to make it an uphill battle as they dump wolves & now  grizzlies into the state with no management plan in place.

I’m just a young buck (early 20s) compared to most on this forum and am probably missing a lot of the story behind the Methow herds downfall. That being said hopefully they can get this passed and it’s a stepping stone in at least awareness for the herd. Or better yet the for-mentioned irrational Seattle-ites relocate to Aspen,CO for their precious XC skiing.

Hell WDFW could close the whole country down it won't make a dam bit of difference to the deer. This closure is not about the deer, and more than likely you will see more closures in the future using some BS story just like this one.

I see there are still people who partially blame "habitat" on the decimation of the deer< There would be far fewer deer if they couldn't get protection from town or around homes up and down the Valley. We never had town deer before wolves, deer feel safe close to homes and people> I have seen deer hang on county roads, lay right in the gravel on the edge the road when wolves are in close just like cattle on the range land roads.

WDFW are directly responsible for the condition of the deer herds we have today, and their complete lack of management of deer. If they were managing the deer, you would see them feeding them through hard winters, you would see predator control, you wouldn't see doe tags etc.. Once the Game department changed over to WDFW things went south, what we have today is not about conservation, it is about destroying everything that has to do with your wildlife.

Any time you see fitkin pretending to give a dam about deer you can figure it's a BS ride, after all he was a huge supporter of wolves clear back in the 1980's. Under fitkin most if not all wolf killed livestock turned into everything but wolves. and as we are seeing with this article the BS is still going on today. Blame  those who have nothing to do with the decimation of the deer, protect wolves and other predators above all else.

[timberfaller]

  for mountianman!! and wolfbait!!    guys!

Have witnessed the decline, all I have to say is, they created the problem and now comes the blame game!!  They bought up land, then did nothing with it, they passed up protecting winter range habitat and WHAT do you think is going to happen!!?? Oh ya, don't forget bringing in the wolves!! Not fighting hard enough over hound and bait hunting, etc etc etc!!  Not to mention the Cat problems too!

When you don't manage based on real science YOU are going to lose every-time.  Might take a few years but it will happen none the less!   See: disappearing green belts

And ya, the Methow has become "ridiculousness" in many ways!  Just ask Jingles and "what" they did for him!!

end of rant!  I could go on for a long time!!