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Author Topic: Could be very bad for freedom?  (Read 5101 times)

Offline hdshot

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Could be very bad for freedom?
« on: February 07, 2024, 04:12:13 PM »
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/jury-reaches-verdict-jennifer-crumbley-manslaughter-trial/story?id=106924349

Makes me wonder what could happen these days if an adult duck hunter stepped out of the blind to retrieve a duck while an under 18 year old they are responsible for accidentally discharged their firearm in the blind hurting themself or others? Might sound like a reach but sounds like this is the first horrible tragedy parents are being found guilty for actions of others such as their kids? 

When under 18, drove the parents truck with the shotgun to go hunting but could be a higher risk for the parents these days?   

Definitively questionable now taking someone else’s kid family or not use my gun or even take them hunting unless their parent is with them at all times in today’s world.  Could have got harder being a parent even letting their kids drive.

Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2024, 04:23:14 PM »
This was an extreme case in my opinion.  This mom was negligent in her actions.....and really should be held liable.  I agree it opens the door and sets precedent for future cases, but this lady needs to be held accountable for her actions.  Her son had known mental health problems and she thought it was a good idea to purchase him a pistol.  Unless there is something I am missing with the facts of the case....I'm glad these deadbeat parents are being held accountable for their actions that lead to their child's reckless behavior. 

I also don't think your examples of an accidental / negligent discharge while hunting translates to the above case.  Two completely different scenarios.   Both end in tragedy....but one was with obvious intent.  A parent that hunts with their children, takes them to hunters safety, locks firearms up, practices, etc. etc. etc.....hopefully will not be held to the same standard.

Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2024, 04:32:41 PM »
This was an extreme case in my opinion.  This mom was negligent in her actions.....and really should be held liable.  I agree it opens the door and sets precedent for future cases, but this lady needs to be held accountable for her actions.  Her son had known mental health problems and she thought it was a good idea to purchase him a pistol.  Unless there is something   I am missing with the facts of the case....I'm glad these deadbeat parents are being held accountable for their actions that lead to their child's reckless behavior. 

I also don't think your examples of an accidental / negligent discharge while hunting translates to the above case.  Two completely different scenarios.   Both end in tragedy....but one was with obvious intent.  A parent that hunts with their children, takes them to hunters safety, locks firearms up, practices, etc. etc. etc.....hopefully will not be held to the same standard.

I agree.


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Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2024, 04:43:24 PM »
I couldn’t legally buy that gun I hunted with under 18 and if some unfortunate accident happened while hunting with friends might not be good for the person who bought me that gun in todays world.  Just hard to pick and choose.
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline Fidelk

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2024, 04:45:39 PM »
Bought a .22 rifle when I was 13......back before the craziness started.

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2024, 05:01:44 PM »
The last 4 years have been the most anti American chitshow I’ve ever seen
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Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2024, 05:03:03 PM »
I couldn’t legally buy that gun I hunted with under 18 and if some unfortunate accident happened while hunting with friends might not be good for the person who bought me that gun in todays world.  Just hard to pick and choose.

Not really....It's about time these deadbeat parents are held accountable. 

I have purchased many rifles, shotguns and pistols for my children to shoot and hunt with.  As a responsible parent, they don't get have access to these firearms unless I know about it.  Neither are old enough yet to take them hunting without my presence.  Both are old enough and responsible enough to sit in a turkey blind without me (I am on the same property or w/in yelling distance), but we have the same safety conversation every time I leave them.  My kids understand what happens if a mistake is made.....DEATH!!  Heaven forbid an accident ever happen.....as a parent, I have done everything in my power to be responsible and there is a very clear track record of such behavior.  I whole heartedly believe, in the event of an accident / negligent discharge I wouldn't be held to the same standard. 

Now....If one of my children has a mental breakdown and I allow them access to a pistol....shame on me!!  The kid in the article had clear mental health issues and the mom ignored them and still bought him a pistol. 

Teach your children firearms safety early.  Be a responsible parent.  Don't be dumb....and you as a parent should be just fine.   Accidental / negligent (notice I don't differentiate) with no intent is significantly different then targeted, premeditated murder.  That mom has blood on her hands for being dumb and making bad decisions.  She deserves to be held accountable.   

Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2024, 05:04:06 PM »
The last 4 years have been the most anti American chitshow I’ve ever seen

Do you believe this mom being held accountable is "anti American"? 

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2024, 05:06:16 PM »
The last 4 years have been the most anti American chitshow I’ve ever seen

Do you believe this mom being held accountable is "anti American"?

No just the BS policies

The kid ultimately is responsible but he will get a mental health crisis pass most likely
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Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2024, 05:07:43 PM »
The last 4 years have been the most anti American chitshow I’ve ever seen

Do you believe this mom being held accountable is "anti American"?

No just the BS policies

100% agree!!

Offline Bullkllr

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2024, 05:31:28 PM »
Weirdest part of that story was the kid had the gun in his backpack the whole while when his parents were meeting with the officials at the school.
"Making good people helpless will not make bad people harmless"

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2024, 05:38:50 PM »
The last 4 years have been the most anti American chitshow I’ve ever seen

Do you believe this mom being held accountable is "anti American"?

No just the BS policies

The kid ultimately is responsible but he will get a mental health crisis pass most likely
Kid has already plead guilty and sentenced to life in prison with no possible parole.
As responsible gun owners and parents we should have no problem with a crackdown
on irresponsible parents who make it easy for antis to paint us all with the same brush. Can't imagine what the thinking would be if you were a parent of one of the students he killed.

Offline BD1

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2024, 05:51:33 PM »
The kid was seeing things, he was struggling but the parents chose not to deal with it. They allowed the firearm to be accessible to him during this time. They screwed up and other families no longer have a living child. Imagine if you were on that side of the situation. Are you good with the sick kid taking the hit or would you want the parents to answer to it too? They put their own wants in front of their kid's needs and other kids died. As parents, they blew it and now other parents are putting their kids in the ground. Sorry but I see it only one way...it is not political...it is paternal. If you haven't lost a kid you have no idea...period.

Offline MADMAX

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2024, 06:06:12 PM »
I totally get that.
In my opinion it’s never been a gun issue. It’s always been a mental health, Lack of negative consequence issue every friggin time something happens it’s not because of the gun, but it’s always the highlight of the evening news and legislative actions.
Gun violence
If he used a vehicle to run over 10 kids getting off the bus
Would it be the vehicles fault or the person who purchased the vehicle ?

But yes a tragedy that shouldn’t happen


« Last Edit: February 07, 2024, 06:15:47 PM by MADMAX »
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Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2024, 06:15:40 PM »
I totally get that.
In my opinion it’s never been a gun issue. It’s always been a mental health, Lack of negative consequence issue every friggin time something happens it’s not because of the gun, but it’s always the highlight of the evening news.
Gun violence
If he used a vehicle to run over 10 kids getting off the bus
Would it be the vehicles fault or the person who purchased the vehicle ?

But yes a tragedy that shouldn’t happen

Perfect example.....the 13 and 15 year old that ran over two pedestrians a week or so ago.  No one punished the car or made an issue of the care being at fault.  Both those kids are being tried in juvenile court for vehicular assault.  They should be tried for attempted murder / manslaughter.  They are both old enough to know better.  Makes me wonder....where were the parents???  This behavior is not normal and I guarantee the parents are deadbeats.

Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2024, 06:54:39 PM »
My son now 40 had his own shotgun at 10 years old when he completed Hunters Ed.

I let him have the shotgun  in his room hanging on the wall. He did not have access to ammo.
The gun did have trigger lock on it.

He could freely handle in his room as long as obeyed all handling rules.

I was of the belief that if there was no mystery about a firearm and if firearms were normal around the home, that my children would not see them as a object to play with.

One day a 11 year old from the neighborhood was over playing with my son in his room.
I would check on them from time to time. I over heard the visitor ask my son.

“is that a real gun”?

Son-  “yes it’s a 20 ga shotgun and it’s mine”

Visitor- “ Can we handle it”?

Son- “ Nah , let’s play with these  cards “

And that was the end of it. They just moved on and ignored the gun.


The only down side was that my kids were so accustomed to firearms and that I would let them handle anything I had and answer all their questions. That when they became adults they really did not have an interest in firearms. They own them and on occasion hut with me but for the most part just don’t have an interest.

It was easier times than.
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Offline chukardogs

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2024, 08:23:35 PM »
Boy, if ever there was a time to use, that was then, this is now. I was given my first 22 at around 7 or 8 years old. An old Winchester model 69. The safety was so hard to put on and take off that my father said, when I was physically able to work the safety, I could use it. Took a year or so but eventually every Grouse in the Chiwawa river drainage was scared and headed for the Entiat.
 This specific issue has little or nothing to do with a gun. This was parents that proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt that not everyone should be allowed to breed. With parents like that, of course there were mental health issues. The fact that anyone in the family was given a gun should have been considered a criminal act. I'm sorry, giving a complete and utter fool a loaded gun, should be criminal. The complete and utter fool then giving the gun to a mentally ill kid, well...... In the world we live in today, it's only fitting and fair that society tries to hold the parents responsible for the acts of their kids under a specific age.
 Who else would be responsible, the village?
 

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2024, 04:04:24 PM »
In this case it’s doesn’t seem like the mom was found guilty of being a bad parent but guilty as a gun owner.  Tragedy is tragedy whether accidental or willful.  So my example of a family member buying a shotgun for me to go hunting is now responsible for even a possible mishap that could cause injury or death. 

After this verdict wouldn’t blame a parent for not letting their kids under 18 hunt alone like I did or with friends without parents with firearms in today’s world. 
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline chukardogs

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2024, 05:40:34 PM »
The jury found her guilty on 4 counts of manslaughter, basically saying she was a co-conspirator in the crime. Not as guilty as the individual that pulled the trigger but not just negligent either.
 If a  parent puts a gun (assault style rifle that the kid asked for) in the hands of a kid that has serious mental issues, that parent should be held responsible. And if it gives other parents pause, so be it, parents should have pause. I gave my step son a 243 when he was old enough to pass his hunting safety course. If I had seen anything that told me he was a threat to himself and/or others, he wouldn't have been given a gun. If some see this situation as a slippery slope, it's a slippery slope that I'm willing to walk out on to every time. I see society having a bunch of slippery slopes coming and in my mind, a slippery slope is a whole lot better than a cliff. At least with a slippery slope, you may be able to navigate yourself back off. A cliff is a little too permanent for my taste.

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2024, 06:48:19 PM »
The jury found her guilty on 4 counts of manslaughter, basically saying she was a co-conspirator in the crime. Not as guilty as the individual that pulled the trigger but not just negligent either.
 If a  parent puts a gun (assault style rifle that the kid asked for) in the hands of a kid that has serious mental issues, that parent should be held responsible. And if it gives other parents pause, so be it, parents should have pause. I gave my step son a 243 when he was old enough to pass his hunting safety course. If I had seen anything that told me he was a threat to himself and/or others, he wouldn't have been given a gun. If some see this situation as a slippery slope, it's a slippery slope that I'm willing to walk out on to every time. I see society having a bunch of slippery slopes coming and in my mind, a slippery slope is a whole lot better than a cliff. At least with a slippery slope, you may be able to navigate yourself back off. A cliff is a little too permanent for my taste.

Unfortunately accidents happen to anyone and that is my concern when it comes for gun ownership especially giving or lending to the under 18 crowd. Dead and the law doesn’t care and could be more risky now for owners letting others use their guns. 

Man it just doesn’t stop when it comes towards the threat our shooting sports!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/leading-house-republican-announces-retirement-congress-privilege-my-life.amp
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Offline chukardogs

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2024, 08:46:06 PM »
I'll just start this off with an I'm sorry. Am I supposed to believe that the public as a whole couldn't or wouldn't differentiate between a father taking his son and a friend out hunting when an accident happens and a mother going along with her husband giving her mentally ill son, an assault rifle, ammunition and then turning the kid loose to use it to kill four class mates? Really, I guess I haven't gotten that far down the rabbit hole. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that there are whack jobs out there that will use whatever they can to make their points. I guess my thing is so be it, let em? There were nut jobs before, there are nut jobs now and there will be nut jobs in the future. I'm not going to change who I am because there are people that don't like something I do or something I believe. If an argument is worth making today, it's worth making tomorrow and any day afterwards. Just my thoughts......

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2024, 09:17:15 PM »
I'll just start this off with an I'm sorry. Am I supposed to believe that the public as a whole couldn't or wouldn't differentiate between a father taking his son and a friend out hunting when an accident happens and a mother going along with her husband giving her mentally ill son, an assault rifle, ammunition and then turning the kid loose to use it to kill four class mates? Really, I guess I haven't gotten that far down the rabbit hole. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that there are whack jobs out there that will use whatever they can to make their points. I guess my thing is so be it, let em? There were nut jobs before, there are nut jobs now and there will be nut jobs in the future. I'm not going to change who I am because there are people that don't like something I do or something I believe. If an argument is worth making today, it's worth making tomorrow and any day afterwards. Just my thoughts......
Just for clarification, it wasn't an assault rifle. He had a sig-saur 9mm handgun.

Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2024, 09:35:13 PM »
I'll just start this off with an I'm sorry. Am I supposed to believe that the public as a whole couldn't or wouldn't differentiate between a father taking his son and a friend out hunting when an accident happens and a mother going along with her husband giving her mentally ill son, an assault rifle, ammunition and then turning the kid loose to use it to kill four class mates? Really, I guess I haven't gotten that far down the rabbit hole. Don't get me wrong, I'm fully aware that there are whack jobs out there that will use whatever they can to make their points. I guess my thing is so be it, let em? There were nut jobs before, there are nut jobs now and there will be nut jobs in the future. I'm not going to change who I am because there are people that don't like something I do or something I believe. If an argument is worth making today, it's worth making tomorrow and any day afterwards. Just my thoughts......

This is the same argument I made very early on in.  I can't draw any similarities in the two scenarios.  I won't accept the notion that deadbeat parents that make bad decisions set precedent for good parents the do everything right and an accident occurs.  Apples to Oranges and you can't change my mind.  Intent to commit a crime vs. accidental / negligent discharge. 

Offline WAcoueshunter

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2024, 09:40:51 PM »
It was easier times than.

It was.  And then Columbine happened, and "going postal", and all the internet and media coverage...and unfortunately now disgruntled young men think it's a good outcome to take a gun to their school and shoot the place up.  I'm 49.  I think back on all the kids I grew up with that had something a little wrong, maybe got picked on some (or a lot)...and in this day and age, would any of them have shot up our school?  That just wasn't on the radar then, but it certainly is now. 

Offline baldopepper

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2024, 10:29:57 PM »
So, everytime I read or see news of a kid under 18 (often only 13 or 14)  out at 2-3 in the morning involved  in sometimes terrible crimes I think the parents should be held resonsible. We can't keep guns out these kids hands it seems and we can't keep them off the streets, but their parents can.  Maybe with the thought they might be held criminally responsible maybe some of these parents might keep better aware of what their kids are up to. The parents of this kid, knowing he had behavioral problems, bought him a hand gun and made no real attempt to secure it or limit his access to it. This issue goes beyond just the gun, to me its more about forcing parents (if that's what it takes) to face the responsibilities of being a parent.


 

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2024, 10:37:54 PM »
Very slippery slope IMO. This will definitely be used against gun owners. It will because there is a search on for something now that they have lost at SCOTUS on 2nd amendment cases. I don't see what stops them from charging parents of teens that go bad beyond guns either.
Pretty good editorial: https://humanevents.com/2024/02/08/libby-emmons-will-all-parents-of-violent-teens-be-punished-for-their-childrens-actions-or-just-white-moms-who-should-have-known-better
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Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2024, 04:07:06 PM »
Shooting sports could die because only law abiding parents will follow the law if parents are responsible.  I just feel the ice has been broken now for much less in the future.
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline chukardogs

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2024, 05:01:35 PM »
If not the parents, who? I totally get the concern, I just don't understand what the other alternatives could or would be. It's just not feasible to think that anyone is going to accept that a kid of 15 years old is solely responsible for his or her own actions when the parents were involved the whole way. I don't necessarily agree in all cases but in this specific situation, it isn't hard to see where the blame lies. I read about the two teenagers in North Seattle recently, 13-15 year olds that stole a car and ran into a couple of pedestrians on purpose. Posted about it on Twitter for fun. Some may think the teenagers are solely responsible, being they stole the car. One glaring problem with that theory. Who's gonna make the two victims that have medical bills and such whole if not the parents of the two teenagers. You shouldn't be able to bring a child into the world if you can't raise and cover whatever it is that child does until they're 18 years old or whatever age society deems them to be an adult. I sure don't want to live in a world where a parent isn't responsible for their child's actions until they're adults.

Offline metlhead

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2024, 08:04:23 PM »
Many of you fail to see the attack on parental rights. Some believe that the family unit is being attacked by stripping parental rights. How then can you raise children as you feel is right. Even very good parents who try their best have dbag kids that are uncontrollable. Would they be held liable?

Offline Humptulips

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2024, 08:25:02 PM »
If not the parents, who? I totally get the concern, I just don't understand what the other alternatives could or would be. It's just not feasible to think that anyone is going to accept that a kid of 15 years old is solely responsible for his or her own actions when the parents were involved the whole way. I don't necessarily agree in all cases but in this specific situation, it isn't hard to see where the blame lies. I read about the two teenagers in North Seattle recently, 13-15 year olds that stole a car and ran into a couple of pedestrians on purpose. Posted about it on Twitter for fun. Some may think the teenagers are solely responsible, being they stole the car. One glaring problem with that theory. Who's gonna make the two victims that have medical bills and such whole if not the parents of the two teenagers. You shouldn't be able to bring a child into the world if you can't raise and cover whatever it is that child does until they're 18 years old or whatever age society deems them to be an adult. I sure don't want to live in a world where a parent isn't responsible for their child's actions until they're adults.
I might be able to agree with you on civil responsibility. Being held criminally responsible is another thing. Even if you look at the lowest standard of criminal responsibility, negligence, it is easy to say yes looking back but at the time not as clear. If it was so clear than maybe the school officials should be prosecuted too.
The gun grabbers will take this back to the time of purchase and no matter what happens going forward you will be deemed negligent when the gun was purchased even though it might have seemed reasonable at the time. For that matter if your child takes your gun without permission, you were negligent because you didn't have it secured well enough.
Bruce Vandervort

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2024, 06:33:39 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2024, 09:42:22 PM »
Saw coverage tonight. Crime up 166% there. Huge gang problem. One of the firearms a long gun.

Had increasing crime past four years.
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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2024, 10:49:46 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability. 


Offline huntnphool

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2024, 10:56:26 PM »
 Amazing that parents can be held accountable for something like this, yet have zero say so when the schools teach their kids to have sex change procedures! :rolleyes:

 I wonder which political side is supportive of these measures!!! :rolleyes:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline metlhead

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2024, 07:35:07 AM »
Nothing will change because of the shooting at thr Taylor Swift parade. Lots of finger pointing and blame directed towards anything with deep pockets then it'll be forgotten. Fortunately it'll be that much closer to waterfowl season and we can be happy smily again.

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2024, 07:55:43 AM »
Amazing that parents can be held accountable for something like this, yet have zero say so when the schools teach their kids to have sex change procedures! :rolleyes:

 I wonder which political side is supportive of these measures!!! :rolleyes:
at this point, is there ANYTHING the dems do that is positive? So tired of them.
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2024, 04:11:15 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline jrebel

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2024, 07:09:02 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.

That’s a very ignorant post.   I’m all for debates and discussion, but when you accuse people of talking out of both sides of their mouth…..I’ll bow out.   I could give you examples of where your wrong….but that wouldn’t help.   Good luck to you!! 

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2024, 06:01:35 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.

That’s a very ignorant post.   I’m all for debates and discussion, but when you accuse people of talking out of both sides of their mouth…..I’ll bow out.   I could give you examples of where your wrong….but that wouldn’t help.   Good luck to you!!

It is because you have no examples and never accused anybody of talking out both sides of their mouth but explained in clear English the law could not allow talking out both sides of your mouth. 
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2024, 11:25:47 PM »
Amazing that parents can be held accountable for something like this, yet have zero say so when the schools teach their kids to have sex change procedures! :rolleyes:

 I wonder which political side is supportive of these measures!!! :rolleyes:

 Brought to you by the democrat party and their voters!
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2024, 04:07:47 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.

That’s a very ignorant post.   I’m all for debates and discussion, but when you accuse people of talking out of both sides of their mouth…..I’ll bow out.   I could give you examples of where your wrong….but that wouldn’t help.   Good luck to you!!

Thumbing through here and you did give an example of what a blanket statement is like what my former hunting partner does to others.  Mainly gave time to digest and notice the words everyone and people, unless not human the words everyone and people includes myself.  Keep making those statements turning away with no conscience. 
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

Offline Platensek-po

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2024, 06:37:01 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.

That’s a very ignorant post.   I’m all for debates and discussion, but when you accuse people of talking out of both sides of their mouth…..I’ll bow out.   I could give you examples of where your wrong….but that wouldn’t help.   Good luck to you!!

It is because you have no examples and never accused anybody of talking out both sides of their mouth but explained in clear English the law could not allow talking out both sides of your mouth.

In clear English???  :dunno:
“Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary.”

If you are not willing to die for freedom then take the word out of your vocabulary.

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2024, 06:48:37 AM »
Not going to read this entire thread but, didn't the dad follow the law when it came to that states rules on gun storage?  And he separated the ammo, sounded like he tried?  And the argument is he should have done more?  If that's the case, and some of you want him to go to jail, wow.  I know good friends with kids that went through some bad years, hell, I thought he would shoot up a school some day.  Should I go to jail if he did?  Blaming parents for being bad parents is fine, there are a lot of bad parents out there. But putting them in jail for it, man that's a slope I don't want to be judged on.  I also wonder if this lady that was found guilty was black, would she had even ended up in court?  No way!
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 06:54:07 AM by trophyhunt »
“In common with”..... not so much!!

Offline hdshot

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Re: Could be very bad for freedom?
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2024, 05:27:17 PM »
Here we go again!  2 juveniles in custody for possibly being involved in the KC Super Bowl parade shooting.  If the juveniles get convicted just hope law abiding citizens that that do shooting sports with their kids don’t get caught in the middle of possible new laws of the future.

https://amp.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article285532507.html

I can't open the article, did the parents purchase these guns for the juveniles?  Did the juveniles have unobstructed access to these firearms?  Did the juveniles have behavioral or mental health history documented? 

I don't know much about these kids....but if the parents bought them guns and let them have unobstructed access, then maybe the parents have some responsibility / liability.

If the parents had absolutely no involvement in the shooting even if the parents legally bought the guns you better hope the parents won’t be liable in any way because law abiding parents might never buy their kids a gun to hunt with again or even for themselves.  Only those responsible for their crime are responsible.  Laws could include everyone, even good people with no talking out both sides of your mouth.

That’s a very ignorant post.   I’m all for debates and discussion, but when you accuse people of talking out of both sides of their mouth…..I’ll bow out.   I could give you examples of where your wrong….but that wouldn’t help.   Good luck to you!!

It is because you have no examples and never accused anybody of talking out both sides of their mouth but explained in clear English the law could not allow talking out both sides of your mouth.

In clear English???  :dunno:

Lol you found the joke similar dumb and dumber talking to each other.
Don't read my post if facts hurt your feeling.

 


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