collapse

Advertisement


Author Topic: .357 mag for deer?  (Read 9046 times)

Offline Stickerbush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: 206
.357 mag for deer?
« on: January 06, 2011, 08:29:59 PM »
I was thinking of trying my handgun for deer hunting, has anybody hunted with a .357 mag? Would you have any recommendations for bullets to use? just curious if this is something worth trying, thanks
Coastal Perspective.

Offline JackOfAllTrades

  • Rasbo said I Ain't Right.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 6506
  • Location: Lynden, WA.
  • Μολὼν λαβέ
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2011, 08:40:28 PM »
It's possible, but you need to be a pretty good shot, know your limitations, work up an accurate load with a quality bullet.

What gun?

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline Stickerbush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: 206
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2011, 08:45:13 PM »
umm taurus revolver, not sure of the model. 3.5 or 4 inch barrel I think. Might be kinda limiting though with the shorter barrel, I havent shot it too much to see my accurate range...
Coastal Perspective.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21190
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2011, 08:49:53 PM »
umm taurus revolver, not sure of the model. 3.5 or 4 inch barrel I think. Might be kinda limiting though with the shorter barrel, I havent shot it too much to see my accurate range...
Barrel length must be at least 4" to be legal.

Big game, except cougar, may be hunted with
handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches
per manufacturers specification, and fire a minimum
24 caliber centerfire cartridge.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline grundy53

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 12832
  • Location: Lake Stevens
  • Learn something new everyday.
    • facebook
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 08:52:22 PM »
I've never actually hunted deer with soley .357 but i did dispatch a wounded deer with one ONCE. i was NOT impressed. I won't do it again.
Molôn Labé
Can you skin Grizz?

The opinions expressed in my posts do not represent those of the forum.

Offline Stickerbush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: 206
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 08:53:11 PM »
ahh good to know, just measured it at exactly 4''  ;)
Coastal Perspective.

Offline 724wd

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3884
  • Location: Spokane
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 09:37:11 PM »
i thought in WA .41 was the minimum handgun caliber?  regs used to say 9mm, .45 auto and .357 not legal.  did they change that? 

Offline JackOfAllTrades

  • Rasbo said I Ain't Right.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 6506
  • Location: Lynden, WA.
  • Μολὼν λαβέ
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 09:41:22 PM »
the problem with the short barrel, you can't develope enough pressure with the powder burning down the full length of a long barrel to get enough bullet velocity for terminal energy at range.

I have taken several deer with pistol. I prefer 44mag or regard the 41 mag as minimum, but I'll admit that a 357 with the right bullet in a longer barrel with enough velocity can be a potent tool to take wild game. I have a Dan Wesson with 8" barrel with very tight fit of the forcing cone to cylinder that keeps a bit more pressure in the barrel that promotes a good 150fps more even on a hot load, that I would not hesitate to hunt the brush with, keeping shots well within 40yds.

I feel that a hand gun with at least a 6" barrel in the hands of a good shooter is OK, but a longer barrel on a revolver or a TC is better. I recall years ago I rattled the pins and screws loose on a Marlin lever gun trying to get it to shoot a hot enough 357 load to meet the then energy standards for long guns. That said, you should be able understand the limitations of that pistol round. Great at closer distance on frail humans, but a little on the weak side for wild game. I will say that I know a guy on Orcas Island that takes Blacktail with a 6" Taurus model 66 with some pretty warm loads. I do not recommend warm loading a Taurus or Smith frame. They cannot handle what you can feed a Ruger Blackhawk.

If you must though... Any handgun hunter should be able to hit a 5 inch pie plate at 50yds off hand with/without scope consecutively with 6 shots any time challenged. You would want to be able to hit your target kill zone with the first shot, then be able to have at least one followup shot placed with the skill of a surgeon.

Those of you with scoped hand cannons of the 454, 460, 500 cal or TC's with rifle cartridges will be able to take game at longer distances... with practice.   :chuckle:

As for minimum cal... I do believe its left up to the conservation officer in the field to determine whether the handgun/cartridge is adequate. I believe that the minimum .240 cal still applies.  (6mm or 243 in a TC)

-Steve
« Last Edit: January 06, 2011, 09:53:52 PM by JackOfAllTrades »
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21190
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 09:45:08 PM »
i thought in WA .41 was the minimum handgun caliber?  regs used to say 9mm, .45 auto and .357 not legal.  did they change that? 
Yes.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Stickerbush

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 1014
  • Location: 206
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 09:47:11 PM »
the problem with the short barrel, you can't develope enough pressure with the powder burning down the full length of a long barrel to get enough bullet velocity for terminal energy at range.

I have taken several deer with pistol. I prefer 44mag or regard the 41 mag as minimum, but I'll admit that a 357 with the right bullet in a longer barrel with enough velocity can be a potent tool to take wild game. I have a Dan Wesson with 8" barrel with very tight fit of the forcing cone to cylinder that keeps a bit more pressure in the barrel that promotes a good 150fps more even on a hot load, that I would not hesitate to hunt the brush with, keeping shots well within 40yds.

I feel that a hand gun with at least a 6" barrel in the hands of a good shooter is OK, but a longer barrel on a revolver or a TC is better. I recall years ago I rattled the pins and screws loose on a Marlin lever gun trying to get it to shoot a hot enough 357 load to meet the then energy standards for long guns. That said, you should be able understand the limitations of that pistol round. Great at closer distance on frail humans, but a little on the weak side for wild game.

If you must though... Any handgun hunter should be able to hit a 5 inch pie plate at 50yds off hand with/without scope consecutively with 6 shots any time challenged. You would want to be able to hit your target kill zone with the first shot, then be able to have at least one followup shot placed with the skill of a surgeon.

Those of you with scoped hand cannons of the 454, 460, 500 cal or TC's with rifle cartridges will be able to take game at longer distances... with practice.   :chuckle:

As for minimum cal... I do believe its left up to the conservation officer in the field to determine whether the handgun/cartridge is adequate. I believe that the minimum .240 cal still applies.  (6mm or 243 in a TC)

-Steve
good to know, thanks
Coastal Perspective.

Offline 724wd

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3884
  • Location: Spokane
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2011, 09:52:19 PM »
i thought in WA .41 was the minimum handgun caliber?  regs used to say 9mm, .45 auto and .357 not legal.  did they change that? 
Yes.

so i've read!  i just checked and of course you're right.  when did they change it?  and why?  my .380 in a 4" barrel is now legal?  a .25?  the .41 rule kinda made sense to me, but .24 in a pistol doesnt seem right...

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21190
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2011, 09:54:32 PM »
i thought in WA .41 was the minimum handgun caliber?  regs used to say 9mm, .45 auto and .357 not legal.  did they change that? 
Yes.

so i've read!  i just checked and of course you're right.  when did they change it?  and why?  my .380 in a 4" barrel is now legal?  a .25?  the .41 rule kinda made sense to me, but .24 in a pistol doesnt seem right...
I think the change was made about 10 years ago.  There used to even be a minimum energy threshhold.  Now it's simply .24 caliber, 4" barrel.  Yes, a 4" .25 caliber is now legal on elk!
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline 724wd

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3884
  • Location: Spokane
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2011, 09:56:18 PM »
wow.   :o

Offline JackOfAllTrades

  • Rasbo said I Ain't Right.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 6506
  • Location: Lynden, WA.
  • Μολὼν λαβέ
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 10:00:10 PM »
Quote
my .380 in a 4" barrel is now legal?

Not in writing.. You'll surely get a citation if caught hunting with that.  There's verbage somewhere that says something to the affect that the weapon used needs to be adequate for the game hunted.

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline high country

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: May 2007
  • Posts: 5129
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 10:01:24 PM »
well,  I can say that the 44mag will knock them flat. I would be fine taking a comfy shot with the 357..........but choose your bullets wisely.


Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21190
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 10:02:49 PM »
Quote
my .380 in a 4" barrel is now legal?

Not in writing.. You'll surely get a citation if caught hunting with that.  There's verbage somewhere that says something to the affect that the weapon used needs to be adequate for the game hunted.

-Steve
Steve, I would respectfully disagree. I do not believe there is anything in writing to that effect.  I will stand corrected if someone can point it out.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-047

WAC 232-12-047 Agency filings affecting this section 
Unlawful methods for hunting.
  (1) It is unlawful to hunt any big game with:

     (a) A fully automatic firearm.

     (b) A centerfire cartridge less than 22 caliber for cougar.

     (c) A centerfire cartridge less than 24 caliber for any other big game.

     (d) A shotgun, provided that a 20 gauge, or larger shotgun, using shells loaded with slugs or buckshot size #1 or larger, may be used to hunt deer, bear, and cougar.

     (e) A shotgun for any other big game, except that a 12 gauge or 10 gauge shotgun using slugs may be used.

     (f) A handgun during a modern firearm season that does not meet the following criteria: Have a minimum barrel length of four inches, per manufacturer's specification, and fire a centerfire cartridge.

     (g) Any rimfire cartridge.

     (2) It is unlawful to hunt game birds with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells.

     (3) It is unlawful to hunt game birds or game animals, except bullfrogs, in a manner other than with a firearm, a bow and arrow, or by falconry, except in those designated areas where crossbows are allowed.

     (4) Rules pertaining to crossbows:

     (a) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a crossbow with a draw weight less than 125 pounds, a limb width less than 24 inches, a draw length less than 14 inches, and a trigger safety that does not work properly.

     (b) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or bolt measuring less than 16 inches in length and weighing less than 350 grains.

     (c) It is unlawful to hunt game animals or game birds with a crossbow that weighs more than 15 pounds.

     (d) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or bolt that does not have a sharp broadhead and the broadhead blade or blades are less than seven-eighths inch wide.

     (e) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a broadhead blade unless the broadhead is unbarbed and completely closed at the back end of the blade or blades by a smooth, unbroken surface starting at maximum blade width and forming a smooth line toward the feather end of the shaft, and such line does not angle toward the point.

     (f) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a retractable broadhead.

     (5) Hunters with disabilities may use a crossbow with a special use permit as conditioned in WAC 232-12-054.

     (6) It is unlawful to hunt game animals or game birds with a shotgun larger than 10 gauge.

     (7) It is unlawful to hunt game birds with a rifle or handgun, with the exception of blue grouse, spruce grouse and ruffed grouse.

     (8) A violation of this section is punishable under RCW 77.15.400, 77.15.410, or 77.15.430, depending on the species hunted.


Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline sakoshooter

  • WFW Board of Directors
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 3597
  • Location: Puyallup
  • Groups: Life Memberr NRA, Life Member Sumner Sportsmans Association
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2011, 11:06:48 AM »
umm taurus revolver, not sure of the model. 3.5 or 4 inch barrel I think. Might be kinda limiting though with the shorter barrel, I havent shot it too much to see my accurate range...
Barrel length must be at least 4" to be legal.

Big game, except cougar, may be hunted with
handguns with a minimum barrel length of 4 inches
per manufacturers specification, and fire a minimum
24 caliber centerfire cartridge.

Cougar can be hunted with a handgun, 22 cal centerfire of larger. All other big game - .24 cal or larger.
Page 70 of the big game regs.
A friend of mine dispatched over a hundred black bears and a few cougars with a .38 revolver. He switched to a .357 after a couple of the bears got ornery with him. He trapped for the Forrest Service for years.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 02:17:49 PM by sakoshooter »
Rhinelander, WI
Home of the Hodag

Offline JackOfAllTrades

  • Rasbo said I Ain't Right.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 6506
  • Location: Lynden, WA.
  • Μολὼν λαβέ
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2011, 11:15:15 AM »
Quote
Steve, I would respectfully disagree. I do not believe there is anything in writing to that effect.  I will stand corrected if someone can point it out.

Well.. There used to be.  :P  It appears that this verbage has been in place since mid 2004?  

I'm sure they'd come up with something in 'fair chase and/or undue suffering' for an animal shot with a gun that was under powered to have an effective humane kill.

I certainly woudn't do it.  Unfortunately since its not in writing.. Someone will.

Oh, and as for dispatching a big game animal with a 38.. Sure. Point blank or there abouts.

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline birdwacker

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 258
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2011, 01:23:57 PM »
Try the buffalo boar 180gr hardcast and shoot for bone.

Offline Bob33

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 21190
  • Groups: SCI, RMEF, NRA, Hunter Education
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2011, 06:14:06 PM »
Quote
Steve, I would respectfully disagree. I do not believe there is anything in writing to that effect.  I will stand corrected if someone can point it out.

Well.. There used to be.  :P  It appears that this verbage has been in place since mid 2004?  

I'm sure they'd come up with something in 'fair chase and/or undue suffering' for an animal shot with a gun that was under powered to have an effective humane kill.

I certainly woudn't do it.  Unfortunately since its not in writing.. Someone will.

Oh, and as for dispatching a big game animal with a 38.. Sure. Point blank or there abouts.

-Steve
Steve, I think you may have hit the nail on the hit for the reasoning behind the change: dispatching a wounded animal.  If you shot a deer with your 300 Magnum and it was still alive, it used to be illegal to dispatch it with a .357. 

I agree that using anything less than .357 would not be ethical in the vast majority of cases.  I think even a .357 is marginal.  However, I hunt small deer in the San Juan islands, and have often been within 10 feet of them.  In certain instances like that, just about any caliber can work with proper shot placement.
Nature. It's cheaper than therapy.

Offline Wazukie

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2009
  • Posts: 2671
  • Location: The Woods
  • Groups: NRA
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2011, 06:40:57 PM »
I hunt with my .357, both deer and bear.  I keep my ranges down to my capabilities.  The velocity in the .357 is plenty to drop a deer or black bear.  That being said, any firearm you use, rifle or other, you need to know how to use it and shoot it.  I think the problem arises, whether you use a 300 RUM or a .357 4" pea shooter, the majority of hunters today don't shoot near enough.  I've never lost an animal putting a bullet through the boiler room.
Matthew 6:33

Offline JackOfAllTrades

  • Rasbo said I Ain't Right.
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Old Salt
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 6506
  • Location: Lynden, WA.
  • Μολὼν λαβέ
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 06:48:38 PM »
the majority of hunters today don't shoot near enough. 

You have that right. I spend a lot of time at the range, I see guys 'I've never seen before' all the sudden show up with their fancy hunting rifle and shoot pretty groups off the bench and call it good.

-Steve
The NRA says I'm a Master!
Colt's, Ruger's, Dan Wesson, & Kimber are my friends!
Proud to be a U.S. Navy Veteran.

If you never follow your dreams, you'll never go anywhere.

Critical thinking keeps people from freaking the hell out every time some half baked blogger forgets his meds. Unlike some of you, I do not have TawkethOutOfAnus© syndrome.

Offline O_mykiss

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Tracker
  • **
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 68
  • Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 07:59:17 PM »
I would hope that common sense would prevail. There's a big difference between what you "can" do vs. what you "should" do.  That decision is up to you.

If it were me, I wouldn't hesitate to use a .357, IF I practiced alot and was only going to take shots I am comfortable with. I would think that using anything less than that would start getting a little light for the purpose.

Think quality bullets, practice, practice and more practice. It helps to get within spitting distance too.

Offline 724wd

  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2009
  • Posts: 3884
  • Location: Spokane
Re: .357 mag for deer?
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2011, 08:18:48 PM »
i hope you guys don't think i was thinking of actually using a .380 to hunt!    :yike:   i thought the .41 rule was a good one.  i did dispatch a bear i shot out of a tree with my .270 a couple years ago with my .357.  at the time, i don't think it was exactly 'legal', but it put a hole through both shoulders i could put my hand through! :o    10 yards, it was devastating!  but for first-shot hunting?  i think i'd have go .41 or larger.

 


* Advertisement

* Recent Topics

Springer 2024 Columbia River by WSU
[Today at 08:31:10 AM]


Average by lhrbull
[Today at 07:31:56 AM]


Let’s see your best Washington buck by Pathfinder101
[Today at 07:22:11 AM]


Walked a cougar down by Loup Loup
[Today at 07:16:30 AM]


CVA optima V2 LR tapped hole for front sight by Remdawg
[Today at 07:09:22 AM]


Bearpaw Season - Spring 2024 by duckmen1
[Today at 06:52:09 AM]


Which 12” boat trailer tires? by timberhunter
[Yesterday at 08:22:18 PM]


Lowest power 22 round? by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 08:06:13 PM]


1x scopes vs open sights by JakeLand
[Yesterday at 07:29:35 PM]


Long Beach Clamming Tides by Encore 280
[Yesterday at 05:16:00 PM]

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal