Lets Talk 12 Gauge Ballistics

Other Hunting > Waterfowl

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Skillet:
Above all, shooter self discipline rules the day, not KE.

I quit duck and goose hunting years ago, but it wasn't because I couldn't reliably kill my birds with my 12 Guage 2-3/4" steel shot. Settled on #2's from my modified-choked Browning for all web-footed critters, worked great for me.

I will admit, I did shoot a few goose field hunt trips in the 90's with Bismuth at the insistence of a hunting buddy who was chugging the heavy shot KoolAid. I felt like it "hit" harder, but didn't pattern well from my gun. And it definitely didn't kill a goose any deader than dead, which is exactly as dead as they were with a well placed load of #2 steel.

Instead of succumbing to the 6" mega-magnum, U-235 pellet, $10 shell hysteria, the guy who is the most effective in the blind is the guy with a familiar gun that he's patterened and shoots alot. There's no free lunch in wing shooting. You can't buy your way up to being a better shot by succumbing to the "bigger/heavier/pricier is better" scam that marketers are constantly pushing on us. Buy your steel shells by the case, along with cases of clay pigeons, and go shoot it up. Then do it again. You'll be a much better shot, judge of distance, be money ahead, and have a lot more off-season fun than the guy who shows up to the blind with an armored car transporting his ridiculously-overpriced shot shells.

Stein:
I shoot #3 and paid $8 a box this year. My average shot is 20-30, all on land available to the public.

I would not recommend paying huge money for 3.5 inch shells and taking 50 yard shots at ducks.

Spend money and effort on getting them closer, not on magic shells to sky bust.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hunterednate:

--- Quote from: The Deacon on October 26, 2018, 05:54:51 AM ---I usually don't say much but wanted to weigh in on this one -

I, too, grew up in the "Lead Days" killing my first duck in 1974. Since then, I've had the opportunity to shoot many different types of non-toxic ammunition; some good, and some not so good -

First, let me preface this by saying today, I hunt exclusively public land. I'm also quite conservative in my shooting, i.e. 40 yards is a long poke for me. That said -

On range estimation - I think I would be safe in saying that many of those who hunt waterfowl - Notice I didn't say waterfowl hunters - would find it difficult to accurately show you 40 yards over dry ground, let alone 40 yards in the absence of any firm (ground-based) range markers. They believe they're shooting at 40 when in fact they're shooting at 55-60 -

On shooting ability - Many of those who hunt waterfowl don't practice wing shooting in the off-season; that is, and putting it kindly, they suffer severe accuracy trauma

On 3.5" shotshells - Unnecessary in my opinion. More cost. More recoil. More physical weight in the blind bag. With few exceptions, if it can't be killed with a 3" shotshell (or 2.75", see next entry), it's not going to be killed with a 3.5" shotshell

On 2.75" shotshells - Absolutely efficient given the right situation in the right hands. Ask anyone who shoots a 16-gauge or older 2.75"-only shotgun, and they'll tell you that the "little" shotshells work just fine

On shot sizes - I'll admit; I'm a fan of high pellet count and high pattern density. Thus, I use the smallest shot applicable to any given situation. Generally speaking, I choose steel #4 for ducks and (Hevi-Metal) #2 for geese; however, those choices will change. During teal-only seasons, I'll shoot #7 steel (1-1/8 ounce), which is deadly effective. Even during the regular season, I'll often shoot #5 steel for smaller (teal, widgeon, wood ducks) ducks. Divers are tough - heavily feathered and muscular - and often warrant an uptick in shot size, e.g. #3 or #2. The bottom line = Shot size selection is a product of the situation and the species

On chokes - Unless one wants to spend $40-120 on an aftermarket choke tube, the modified choke tube that came with Shotgun X should - SHOULD - work just fine. Over the years, I've played with many aftermarket tubes; some performed, some did not. How did I determine which ones did and which ones didn't? Patterning. There's no reason for a shooter not to know how his or her shotgun performs with Choke X and Shotshells A through E. It's called patterning. Rifle shooters spend time on the range. Shotgunners should as well

On self-discipline - If you have to ask yourself "Is it too far?" as you mount the gun, it probably is. If you say to yourself - "Ah, what the hell. I'll give 'em a go" - they're probably too far. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for most modern waterfowl ammunition to do its job efficiently and effectively? No. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for many of those who hunt waterfowl to do THEIR job efficiently and effectively? I believe so

I am by no means an authority on the subject above. Just a duck/goose hunter with 44 seasons under his belt. And this is what I've learned during that time - M.D. Johnson - M & J Outdoor Communications - Cathlamet

--- End quote ---

If MD said it, I'm going with it! Love this guy's work. Check out his stuff in Field & Stream or Wildfowl or American Waterfowler if you haven't already. Knew he was a WA resident from his writing but didn't know he was part of this forum! Very cool.

AWS:
I killed my first duck in 1956 and have only missed a couple seasons since. When we had to got o steel in the 1970's I shot 4's as that was as small as it came, we shot 1-1 1/8 oz of 6's or 7.5's in lead so it wasn't a major change for us. We never had a problem with the change as we were shooting our skeet guns over decoying ducks (MN Public lands).

I've stuck with steel 4's since until bismuth and ITX shot came out and I could break out my old sxs's. Now it is 2.5" shells with 7/8th oz of ITX 6's and 1 oz of Bismuth 5's. To me big shot, long shells, custom chokes are just crutches to make up for poor hunting skills.

LGF:
Some so sensitive. All due respect, please don't take what I say personally. Just trying to stimulate some good discussion. M.D Johnson said it best. I hunt waterfowl.

I don't sell shells. I don't have a dog in this fight. Just dig waterfowl hunting.

Try this link and watch the short video at the bottom, really sums up my points in OP.

http://fowledreality.com/waterfowl-hunting-shell-size-selection/

If you can shoot birds consistently at 25 yards you don't need to worry about a thing. shoot cheap 2.75 loads of 6's. If you are like me and most considerate hunters,,, you will shoot some birds 35 and 45 once in a while all the way to 50 yards on your third shot. Reality on most days.

Rule
1. Larger pellets will carry higher foot pounds penetrating vital parts to kill birds. Kinetic energy. Common charts and measures will use 40 yards as your guide for energy. Steel number 2's usually run about 4.4 ftp in most loads at 40 yards compared to number 4's at 2.5 ftp's. Fact not opinion. You will retrieve more birds and not lose cripples as often.

2. Payload, have enough pellets to give good pattern density. Shoot the 3.5 inch shells if you can. consider cost and kick. Remember a 3.5 inch load will carry about 18% to 20% more pellets per shot. this again will improve your kill ratio instead of losing cripples. Fact.

3. Choke. Not critical, but important. Use your factory IC or MOD and you will be just fine as indicated by replies on the OP.

Good luck and good hunting. I'm out. Don't forget to click the link and watch the 2 minute video. real good info.

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