Big Game Hunting > Wolves
Just playing [emoji35]
2MANY:
Over the edge??
:)
Mudman:
We just spent 12 days in Montana Idaho. By Yellowstone. Spent 400 miles driving mnt in sxs. I speak of this because we saw plenty game and cattle and elk and antelope etc. Most anmals were seen on leased ranch land and not in the huge red rock wildlife preserve. Just saying. Elk sure love those natural developed springs for cattle too! I see no issues there. I call BS in most situations of this weak argument. Exceptions excluded of course as Surely there are issues needing better management but we eat beef in USA. Cant have it both ways.
Rainier10:
--- Quote from: 2MANY on July 30, 2024, 04:16:27 PM ---Over the edge??
:)
--- End quote ---
Living on the Westside will push you over the edge. :chuckle:
That isn’t where the saying came from but it is true.
Feathernfurr:
--- Quote from: 2MANY on July 30, 2024, 03:46:24 PM ---
1 - “Grazing cattle push those ungulates off of prime habitat."
This statement is BS.
"I can assume from the @2MANY response having a western Washington address decreases a persons street cred and diminishes their opinion."
You can assume.
In some situations this may also be true.
2 - "In states with harsh winters, that habitat is vital to population growth/sustainment."
Actually during harsh winters the wild animals migrate down to the private land and eat the farmers grass.
BLM grazing usually takes place at the higher elevations far above the harsh winter forage.
3 - "I’d gladly pay the monthly fees equivalent to the allotments fees in my elk spots to keep cattle off of them."
Your elk spots? I thought this was public ground.
While some areas may be over grazed(especially in eastern WA), ALL of the BLM ground I'm familiar with certainly isn't.
--- End quote ---
Still waiting for you to back up any singular response you’ve made.
1 - You’re right, I’m absolutely making this up. I definitely didn’t arrive at this conclusion from years of running cameras and scouting areas and watching cowboys bring in truck loads of cows and push out 100+ elk herds from the area into lesser quality habitat. Elk love competing for resources.
2 - I’m going to bet you’ve never lived within 10 minutes of a major wintering ground. I’ve ridden by one everyday for a decade. I’ve watched cattle and sheep graze it all summer/fall in the valley on blm. Then watching 1000’s of deer, elk, and moose migrate into it. I’ve also walked it and counted dozens of dead animals in the spring when it opens. In the places I’ve lived (which have millions of acres of blm land) I’ve seen livestock grazing from 3k ft all the way to 7k ft.
3 - Semantics. Don’t be silly. “My” elk spots are shared with a lot of other hunters, we enjoy catching up in the woods every season. All of us get burned by the cattle once they’re brought in(generally just before or right after the start of the season). Oddly enough this area is loaded with grizzly, wolves, and lions. We never find dead cattle from predation.
I’ll just throw out some loose facts as well.
- 80-90% of the United States beef is owned by 4 major corporations. (I’ve found that much of the cattle in the areas I hunt is owned by wealthy Californians, and operated by South American cowboys on work visas)
- ~20% of the United States beef production is exported. That 20% is offset by imported beef from Brazil.
- I haven’t seen a ribeye worth a turd in grocery stores since Covid, and what I have seen has been far too expensive. Not a fact, but I’d like to see someone dispute it 😂
PsoasHunter:
Wow, thanks for the education. Feathernfurr and Rainier10, I appreciate your thoughtful comments and data and observations to back it up. I especially agree that blanket statements never apply to complex problems. But thoughtful discussions are so much more work on the internet, so good on you for making the effort.
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