| Big Game Hunting > Elk Hunting |
| Westside Elk Raffle Tag - Banned for Life - video added** |
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| JakeLand:
Man you’re going to have a heck of a taxidermy bill this year !!!! 3rd world problems 😂 |
| Bullkllr:
Since it keeps getting mentioned and I haven't seen it posted: https://manulifeimlanduse.com/sites/default/files/property-recreation-maps/kapowsin-2024-rulesfinal.pdf The most pertinent sections seem to be #4-5. Been trying to avoid this one :bash:, but I have to wonder how different some responses might be if it was a different landowner involved. Being consistently supportive of landowners' rights and wishes seems universal on this forum over the years. Say the hunter meets with said landowner and is told he can hunt deer, bear, small game, etc. and can also collect berries, mushrooms and firewood. He gets a key to come and go mostly as he pleases. Landowner says something like, "Oh, btw, we manage our own bull elk hunts and you can't even enter the property during elk seasons unless you have specific permission in the form of one of our permits." They've been doing this for decades and everybody in the local hunting community is amply aware of it. The hunting community is also aware of the mature bulls the area grows because of this program. All is good until the hunter pops an exceptional bull elk courtesy of his raffle tag, which he never mentioned he had. Hunter's response is something along the lines of, "Well, you didn't say I couldn't..." Is this situation really that much different because it's the faceless "Manulife Global" and their written rules weren't explicit enough despite the intent? |
| cjensen:
--- Quote from: Bullkllr on October 21, 2024, 08:29:09 AM ---Since it keeps getting mentioned and I haven't seen it posted: https://manulifeimlanduse.com/sites/default/files/property-recreation-maps/kapowsin-2024-rulesfinal.pdf The most pertinent sections seem to be #4-5. Been trying to avoid this one :bash:, but I have to wonder how different some responses might be if it was a different landowner involved. Being consistently supportive of landowners' rights and wishes seems universal on this forum over the years. Say the hunter meets with said landowner and is told he can hunt deer, bear, small game, etc. and can also collect berries, mushrooms and firewood. He gets a key to come and go mostly as he pleases. Landowner says something like, "Oh, btw, we manage our own bull elk hunts and you can't even enter the property during elk seasons unless you have specific permission in the form of one of our permits." They've been doing this for decades and everybody in the local hunting community is amply aware of it. The hunting community is also aware of the mature bulls the area grows because of this program. All is good until the hunter pops an exceptional bull elk courtesy of his raffle tag, which he never mentioned he had. Hunter's response is something along the lines of, "Well, you didn't say I couldn't..." Is this situation really that much different because it's the faceless "Manulife Global" and their written rules weren't explicit enough despite the intent? --- End quote --- Thanks for posting the rules as that is helpful for an informed discussion on the topic. The above hypothetical 1 on 1 in-person conversation is a nice thought to consider, but far from the actual experience of dealing with Kapowsin. In your proposed situation, it would have absolutely been very different for me. During the recent process, it wasn't even possible to have a conversation with anybody (including the admin). Email only. There is a difference in working an unreachable faceless entity that you pay for certain access via their rules than some Farmer Joe being kind and letting you on their land and saying some "oh by the way"... It really isn't more complicated than has already been described. They don't regulate elk harvest; they regulate access during general season. Some unknown "community", of which i am clearly not a part, seems to magically know their unspoken intent behind the rules. Unless the people on this forum were telling a tall tale, hunting the raffle tag was allowed in the very recent past (no rule changes since). Did their unspoken intentions change since then? Hindsight says I should have probably asked for specific permission rather than going by the letter of the law or by historical precedent. I paid the price and will continue to take criticism here for some time. I hope someone is at least having fun reading this... :) |
| Caseyd:
--- Quote from: Bullkllr on October 21, 2024, 08:29:09 AM ---Since it keeps getting mentioned and I haven't seen it posted: https://manulifeimlanduse.com/sites/default/files/property-recreation-maps/kapowsin-2024-rulesfinal.pdf The most pertinent sections seem to be #4-5. Been trying to avoid this one :bash:, but I have to wonder how different some responses might be if it was a different landowner involved. Being consistently supportive of landowners' rights and wishes seems universal on this forum over the years. Say the hunter meets with said landowner and is told he can hunt deer, bear, small game, etc. and can also collect berries, mushrooms and firewood. He gets a key to come and go mostly as he pleases. Landowner says something like, "Oh, btw, we manage our own bull elk hunts and you can't even enter the property during elk seasons unless you have specific permission in the form of one of our permits." They've been doing this for decades and everybody in the local hunting community is amply aware of it. The hunting community is also aware of the mature bulls the area grows because of this program. All is good until the hunter pops an exceptional bull elk courtesy of his raffle tag, which he never mentioned he had. Hunter's response is something along the lines of, "Well, you didn't say I couldn't..." Is this situation really that much different because it's the faceless "Manulife Global" and their written rules weren't explicit enough despite the intent? --- End quote --- He did exactly what you posted. Stayed out of there during elk season :dunno: He bought a pass to enter. He just gets to hunt “out of elk season” and not during those restricted times. Yes, we can all assume the raffle tags and governor tag will be added to their rules |
| Bullkllr:
--- Quote from: cjensen on October 21, 2024, 10:22:43 AM --- --- Quote from: Bullkllr on October 21, 2024, 08:29:09 AM ---Say the hunter meets with said landowner and is told he can hunt deer, bear, small game, etc. and can also collect berries, mushrooms and firewood. He gets a key to come and go mostly as he pleases. Landowner says something like, "Oh, btw, we manage our own bull elk hunts and you can't even enter the property during elk seasons unless you have specific permission in the form of one of our permits." They've been doing this for decades and everybody in the local hunting community is amply aware of it. The hunting community is also aware of the mature bulls the area grows because of this program. All is good until the hunter pops an exceptional bull elk courtesy of his raffle tag, which he never mentioned he had. Hunter's response is something along the lines of, "Well, you didn't say I couldn't..." Is this situation really that much different because it's the faceless "Manulife Global" and their written rules weren't explicit enough despite the intent? --- End quote --- Thanks for posting the rules as that is helpful for an informed discussion on the topic. The above hypothetical 1 on 1 in-person conversation is a nice thought to consider, but far from the actual experience of dealing with Kapowsin. In your proposed situation, it would have absolutely been very different for me. During the recent process, it wasn't even possible to have a conversation with anybody (including the admin). Email only. There is a difference in working an unreachable faceless entity that you pay for certain access via their rules than some Farmer Joe being kind and letting you on their land and saying some "oh by the way"... It really isn't more complicated than has already been described. They don't regulate elk harvest; they regulate access during general season. Some unknown "community", of which i am clearly not a part, seems to magically know their unspoken intent behind the rules. Unless the people on this forum were telling a tall tale, hunting the raffle tag was allowed in the very recent past (no rule changes since). Did their unspoken intentions change since then? Hindsight says I should have probably asked for specific permission rather than going by the letter of the law or by historical precedent. I paid the price and will continue to take criticism here for some time. I hope someone is at least having fun reading this... :) --- End quote --- I'm just saying how Kapowsin manages elk season access is widely known, but you knew that. And essentially restricting access amounts to managing harvest. I've read through all the pages of posts. I can't find the historical precedent mentioned, but I must say that would change my perspective dramatically. Romulus I believe mentioned he held a raffle tag and was denied hunting it on the tree farm. Have fun. Great bull, not much else to say... |
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