Post by: WAmuleyHunter on July 02, 2012, 04:06:41 PM
http://nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/07/02/trophy-elk-hunter-must-stay-out-of-national-forests-for-2-years-after-pleading-guilty-to-charges-related-to-2007-governors-tag-kill/ (http://nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/07/02/trophy-elk-hunter-must-stay-out-of-national-forests-for-2-years-after-pleading-guilty-to-charges-related-to-2007-governors-tag-kill/)
Post by: JBar on July 02, 2012, 04:13:38 PM
Post by: Huntbear on July 02, 2012, 04:27:50 PM
We all know that a regular joe would get slapped down hard and fast.....
Or will the WDFW continue to be money whores and excuse his misconduct?????
Post by: Shawn Ryan on July 02, 2012, 04:30:55 PM
As for Reichert, the penalty doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent for him, either. Losing a hunting license for a few years along with reciprocity in other states seems more fitting.
I have nothing against the Governor's tag concept or that wealthy people spend a lot of money (that may go to State expenses that I like) to hunt big bulls. But, I'd expect more deterrent for any violator. When the amount at stake for the violator is higher, the punishment needs to be commensurately higher as well.
Post by: Bluesdude on July 02, 2012, 04:34:18 PM
Post by: Huntbear on July 02, 2012, 04:36:54 PM
But guys like RT get screwed in the a$$ by the WDFW with a dry corn cob shoved where the sun does not shine.
Post by: ellensburgpo on July 02, 2012, 06:04:55 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 02, 2012, 07:08:08 PM
Quote
Described as "a strong supporter of elk hunting and improving elk habitat," he has killed several monster bulls by outbidding other rich trophy hunters to get coveted tags, including $40,000 for the 2007-08 New Mexico Governor's Tag, $19,000 for the 2001 Oregon Governor's Tag, $16,000 for the 2003 edition, and an undetermined amount for the 1999 California tule bull elk tag.Lets not forget all the money spent on Raffle tickets, he spent a lot and got at least one of the tags last year.
Post by: Wea300mag on July 02, 2012, 07:13:57 PM
QuoteDescribed as "a strong supporter of elk hunting and improving elk habitat," he has killed several monster bulls by outbidding other rich trophy hunters to get coveted tags, including $40,000 for the 2007-08 New Mexico Governor's Tag, $19,000 for the 2001 Oregon Governor's Tag, $16,000 for the 2003 edition, and an undetermined amount for the 1999 California tule bull elk tag.Lets not forget all the money spent on Raffle tickets, he spent a lot and got at least one of the tags last year.
Now that he is going to sit out for a couple years, maybe it will improve our odds in the raffles.
I think his records should have an asterisk next to them if they are still recognized, similar to baseball players on Roids.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 02, 2012, 07:17:39 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 02, 2012, 07:18:39 PM
Seems like most hunting offenses result in loss of the trophy, not sure why this is any different. :dunno:QuoteDescribed as "a strong supporter of elk hunting and improving elk habitat," he has killed several monster bulls by outbidding other rich trophy hunters to get coveted tags, including $40,000 for the 2007-08 New Mexico Governor's Tag, $19,000 for the 2001 Oregon Governor's Tag, $16,000 for the 2003 edition, and an undetermined amount for the 1999 California tule bull elk tag.Lets not forget all the money spent on Raffle tickets, he spent a lot and got at least one of the tags last year.
Now that he is going to sit out for a couple years, maybe it will improve our odds in the raffles.
I think his records should have an asterisk next to them if they are still recognized, similar to baseball players on Roids.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 02, 2012, 07:24:05 PM
Post by: MLBowhunting on July 02, 2012, 08:22:15 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 02, 2012, 08:25:11 PM
I wonder what kind of probation he got. I think there is a statute of limitations on most misdeamenors? Probably why poaching was not used in this story. Just my guessForgot your "t" there ML. ;)
Post by: Bearhunter on July 02, 2012, 08:31:52 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 02, 2012, 08:32:50 PM
Post by: Caseyd on July 02, 2012, 08:34:52 PM
I'm not against the tags or the money it brings in. People just have to remember once big money is involved it changes people.
And some wonder why locals hate these tag holders :)
Post by: Caseyd on July 02, 2012, 08:42:41 PM
• Use an aircraft to spot, locate, or report the
location of wildlife for the purpose of hunting.
• Hunt big game on the same day you were
airborne for any purpose, except for a
regularly scheduled commercial flight.
Post by: Huntbear on July 02, 2012, 08:43:07 PM
Seems like most hunting offenses result in loss of the trophy, not sure why this is any different. :dunno:QuoteDescribed as "a strong supporter of elk hunting and improving elk habitat," he has killed several monster bulls by outbidding other rich trophy hunters to get coveted tags, including $40,000 for the 2007-08 New Mexico Governor's Tag, $19,000 for the 2001 Oregon Governor's Tag, $16,000 for the 2003 edition, and an undetermined amount for the 1999 California tule bull elk tag.Lets not forget all the money spent on Raffle tickets, he spent a lot and got at least one of the tags last year.
Now that he is going to sit out for a couple years, maybe it will improve our odds in the raffles.
I think his records should have an asterisk next to them if they are still recognized, similar to baseball players on Roids.
Well, when you take into account the amount of money that the WDFW would probably lose ..... there ya go.. money does buy you a free pass.... he got a minor slap on the wrist... like you would a 2 year old, not like a person that just broke the law.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 02, 2012, 08:52:06 PM
Post by: Buckmark on July 02, 2012, 08:55:28 PM
Mighty nice elk
yes it is
how did you get it?
well it was a rough hunt i tell you, i was fogged in for the morning, then i got word the weather was clearing so i set out
dressed in $1000.00 dollars of the finest imported latest not yet sold in store camo.
I climbed aboard my steed, a Bell 206L-4, and climbed to an alltitude perfect for glassing,
after several tense minutes i spotted this monster hiding in a canyon not accessible to anyone on foot
we made several passes, running this bull around the bowl until his tounge was dragging and i knew he was the one, radioed ahead to my "guide" and sent him the gps cordinates so he could be ready to retrive my trophy, and bring his posse and camera. after dismounting my noble steed (see bell 206L-4) i made the trek to the edge of the meadow and dropped him with my newest .000001 moa rifle from "You Cannot Afford it Rifle company"
took some hero shots and made it back just in time to watch jeopardy....
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 02, 2012, 08:58:50 PM
Post by: wraithen on July 02, 2012, 09:02:21 PM
I think there is a 24hr waiting period. :dunno:
This is correct but does not include regularly scheduled commercial transportation, as well as a few other exceptions. Basically, you can't scout aerially.
Post by: MLBowhunting on July 02, 2012, 09:04:12 PM
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on July 02, 2012, 09:04:42 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 02, 2012, 09:05:03 PM
Post by: lonedave on July 02, 2012, 09:40:21 PM
Post by: iRem on July 02, 2012, 09:51:40 PM
Post by: link on July 02, 2012, 10:00:03 PM
Tag holder chatting with a business associate looking at the mount sipping brandy:Funny. But I believe it was a little more like this:
Mighty nice elk
yes it is
how did you get it?
well it was a rough hunt i tell you, i was fogged in for the morning, then i got word the weather was clearing so i set out
dressed in $1000.00 dollars of the finest imported latest not yet sold in store camo.
I climbed aboard my steed, a Bell 206L-4, and climbed to an alltitude perfect for glassing,
after several tense minutes i spotted this monster hiding in a canyon not accessible to anyone on foot
we made several passes, running this bull around the bowl until his tounge was dragging and i knew he was the one, radioed ahead to my "guide" and sent him the gps cordinates so he could be ready to retrive my trophy, and bring his posse and camera. after dismounting my noble steed (see bell 206L-4) i made the trek to the edge of the meadow and dropped him with my newest .000001 moa rifle from "You Cannot Afford it Rifle company"
took some hero shots and made it back just in time to watch jeopardy....
Ring ring ring.
yellow
Todd?
Yup. Wick, is that you?
Yep, we got your bull spotted. Jimmy flew over him not more than fifteen minutes ago.
Niiiice! Is he as big as you thought?
Yup. He's a goodun. How soon can you be here?
I'll have Charles fire up the helicopter, probably 30 minutes. You think he'll still be there?
Well, we got John, Carl, Fred, George, Walter, Toby, Jerry, and Howard headed up the hill for first watch.
Niiiice! You think we can go to Applebees after? I love their wings. You like their wings Wick?
Sure Todd. Don't forget your checkbook.
Post by: link on July 02, 2012, 10:16:59 PM
Post by: iRem on July 02, 2012, 10:25:39 PM
Post by: link on July 02, 2012, 10:30:17 PM
Post by: Swatson on July 02, 2012, 10:30:52 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 02, 2012, 10:34:30 PM
Post by: b.roberts on July 03, 2012, 05:36:35 AM
Post by: link on July 03, 2012, 07:58:59 AM
Post by: woodywsu on July 03, 2012, 08:01:40 AM
Post by: deerslyr on July 03, 2012, 08:30:24 AM
So you cant take a helicopter trip into the hills and look at game? Is it legal before the seasons open?
I believe it is legal, you just cant hunt with in 24 hours.
Post by: woodywsu on July 03, 2012, 08:32:30 AM
So you cant take a helicopter trip into the hills and look at game? Is it legal before the seasons open?
I believe it is legal, you just cant hunt with in 24 hours.
:bdid:
Illegal to use aircraft to spot game.
Post by: muzzlebuck on July 03, 2012, 08:34:14 AM
Post by: Caseyd on July 03, 2012, 08:37:06 AM
A game violation is a game violation, why is this treated any less than someone shooting the same bull after hours?
Because he was prosecuted by the forest service for providing false information, not a game violation.
And that's exactly his point!! He violated game laws, why wasnt he charged and prosecuted by the wdfw like anybody else would be.
Post by: Swatson on July 03, 2012, 08:45:23 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on July 03, 2012, 09:22:26 AM
Thats very funny and very sad at the same time. Pretty sickening that such great bulls have to die like that, and you know Agnew's bull died the same way. It's no secret he was guided out of the guides territory, I don't know for sure but both those guys probably had the same exact hunt from the same guide. What a bunch of crap, and why can't this be a game violation??? Sickening!Tag holder chatting with a business associate looking at the mount sipping brandy:Funny. But I believe it was a little more like this:
Mighty nice elk
yes it is
how did you get it?
well it was a rough hunt i tell you, i was fogged in for the morning, then i got word the weather was clearing so i set out
dressed in $1000.00 dollars of the finest imported latest not yet sold in store camo.
I climbed aboard my steed, a Bell 206L-4, and climbed to an alltitude perfect for glassing,
after several tense minutes i spotted this monster hiding in a canyon not accessible to anyone on foot
we made several passes, running this bull around the bowl until his tounge was dragging and i knew he was the one, radioed ahead to my "guide" and sent him the gps cordinates so he could be ready to retrive my trophy, and bring his posse and camera. after dismounting my noble steed (see bell 206L-4) i made the trek to the edge of the meadow and dropped him with my newest .000001 moa rifle from "You Cannot Afford it Rifle company"
took some hero shots and made it back just in time to watch jeopardy....
Ring ring ring.
yellow
Todd?
Yup. Wick, is that you?
Yep, we got your bull spotted. Jimmy flew over him not more than fifteen minutes ago.
Niiiice! Is he as big as you thought?
Yup. He's a goodun. How soon can you be here?
I'll have Charles fire up the helicopter, probably 30 minutes. You think he'll still be there?
Well, we got John, Carl, Fred, George, Walter, Toby, Jerry, and Howard headed up the hill for first watch.
Niiiice! You think we can go to Applebees after? I love their wings. You like their wings Wick?
Sure Todd. Don't forget your checkbook.
Post by: worktohunt on July 03, 2012, 12:05:44 PM
Post by: muzzlebuck on July 03, 2012, 12:23:11 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on July 03, 2012, 01:08:32 PM
A game violation is a game violation, why is this treated any less than someone shooting the same bull after hours?
Because he was prosecuted by the forest service for providing false information, not a game violation.
And that's exactly his point!! He violated game laws, why wasnt he charged and prosecuted by the wdfw like anybody else would be.
WDFW probably didn't have enough evidence of him using a helicopter illegally, so they turned the case over to the forest service.
And now he is prohibited from hunting on all USFS lands for a period of time. Compacts with other states not-withstanding, Washington was slightly more limited in their power
Just a possibility
Post by: arrowflinger on July 03, 2012, 01:49:35 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 03, 2012, 02:42:57 PM
Might have already been said............He should lose his right to hunt forever.Thats a bit harsh IMO. :twocents:
Post by: arrowflinger on July 03, 2012, 02:54:11 PM
Might have already been said............He should lose his right to hunt forever.Thats a bit harsh IMO. :twocents:
:sry: but i don't believe he is a true sportmen like you or I and if I was caught doing that, the WDFW would be all over me.
Post by: b.roberts on July 03, 2012, 04:52:26 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on July 03, 2012, 05:31:59 PM
He knew he was in the wrong, he still did it. He knew of Wik's reputation for shady antics yet he still used him. He knew he was committing a crime for 3 weeks straight.
Yes, he may have hunted hard and been friendly. I am the same way but I, in no way, think I'm above the law nor would I want to be above the law.
And then there's Wik, bad rumors similar to these have been floating around for years. Good chance there's truth to them.
:twocents:
Post by: Legacy on July 03, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Post by: crazyantler on July 03, 2012, 05:49:13 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on July 03, 2012, 07:01:57 PM
So I don't post on here a lot but thought I would chime in on this one and give you guys my perspective. I am not condoning Tod and Jon's actions but can give some of you guys a little more insight as to how he hunts. I had a blues archery tag in 2007 and ran into Tod and Jon over there and ended up hunting the same area as them. They were able to hunt a week before me and were out every day in the brush, I know because I ran into them scouting Labor day weekend and during the week before I could hunt. When I first ran into Tod he was wearing old military bdu pants and a flannel shirt and looked like you or me other than he had a gun with him and it wasn't anything special, stainless remington with a leupold scope like what many of us use. The night before the season he invited me to his camp and showed me all of his trail cameras and videos of bulls they had seen in the area so that I was fully aware of what was in the area and didn't shoot a small bull. I had no idea what to expect from a guy who spent $50k on an elk tag and had preconceived ideas of a governors tag holder. The bull I actually ended up shooting they had passed up earlier in the morning and pushed him up the hill to where I was chasing elk and I was able to seal the deal on a 350 class bull. When my partner went back to camp to get pack frames he ran into Tod and his buddy and told them I had killed out. They offered to come up and help bone out the elk which they did. He did not have to do that and him being a butcher years ago showed me a slick way to bone out a shoulder that I had not seen before. Like I said before I am not condoning any of Tod's actions, I just wanted to give you guys a different perspective of the guy based on what I experienced. Tod was out hunting everyday as hard as I was and he did it for 3 weeks straight, he just has way more trigger control than the average guy which he should based on the hunts he has done. I never saw him sitting in camp waiting for someone to come in and tell him they had a bull pinned down so he could go shoot it. I know these governors tag threads are always volatile and was relunctant to post but thought it would be good for people to hear what I actually experienced.
Post by: HntnFsh on July 03, 2012, 07:03:06 PM
Worktohunt, thanks for posting that. I don't know anything about them, other than what I have read. The class envy and animosity aimed at those that have more than others just rubs me the wrong way. He screwed up and he is being punished. A "lifetime ban" from hunting, give me a break.
I agree with you 100%
Post by: Rainier10 on July 03, 2012, 07:07:39 PM
Post by: worktohunt on July 03, 2012, 08:17:34 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 03, 2012, 10:37:56 PM
Doubt that we'll see much coming about as a result of that either but may be a fine and bans on guiding or providing professional services on federal lands for a period of time.He knew the rules and regulations prior to breaking them in 07, yet he completely disregarded them anyway. What convinces you that this "ban" will result in a change in character?
Post by: Huntbear on July 03, 2012, 10:51:36 PM
Whats interesting is that several guys that have been members on here for quite some time, yet have less than 100 posts total, feel compelled to finally make comments when it comes to threads like this.
Doubt that we'll see much coming about as a result of that either but may be a fine and bans on guiding or providing professional services on federal lands for a period of time.He knew the rules and regulations prior to breaking them in 07, yet he completely disregarded them anyway. What convinces you that this "ban" will result in a change in character?
Amazing isnt it Phool????? The rich just do as they please, get a minor slap on the wrist.. and still get to hunt.. You or I would be hung out to dry because we do not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars like Reichert and Agnew... So we do not get the special treatments they do ....
Post by: huntnphool on July 03, 2012, 10:54:25 PM
he plead guilty to lying to a USFS employee about who his guide was and that he was paid for his services. Hardly something calling for a lifetime hunting ban as some on here have suggested.+1
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 07:03:11 AM
Post by: plugger on July 04, 2012, 07:08:43 AM
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 07:35:55 AM
Post by: huntnphool on July 04, 2012, 10:14:35 AM
with the money invested I cant see the state spending a ton to go after them just saying . If they are poaching or breaking a fire arm restriction sure but if they are on the wrong side of a road or flying a area i just dont see it . if they are blocking roads so others cant get in i have a problem with it aswell . I know alot of us help guys with there tags , I think your openning a door we may not wanna go into , if I drive my truck and a guy fills my tank full off gas or buys lunch . then is he paying me to guide ?That's not the point coach. The rules are spelled out in the regs before the tags are purchased, by purchasing the tag you are agreeing to abide by the rules. If you don't agree with them then you can lobby to have them changed, until then there is no asterisk next to the aircraft rule exempting those that pay for the auction tags.
As Plugger said, why not hire the person that is the outfitter in that area if you need a guide? Boundaries are in place to attempt to make it fair, no different than some east coast beverage distributor setting up shop in Oregon and stepping on the toes of the local distributor. :twocents:
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 11:24:29 AM
Post by: Swatson on July 04, 2012, 11:36:13 AM
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 11:49:15 AM
Why are so many people hung up on this "he's rich and getting off and if it were me and you we'd get hammered?" It was a misdemeanor offense which is punishable up to 5,000 dollars and he got the max! He was also trespassed from USFS land. Seems that people have a little added anger towards the guy because he has money. The guy broke the law, got punished for it to the maximum penalty of 5,000 but some people seem to want more simply because he is a rich dude???? I could go pull a whole boat load of other game law offense cases from the last few years from average joes like most of us(minus the law breaking) that got off a whole lot easier for much worse crimes in my opinion! I'm not defending this booger eater for his actions just so we are clear I'm just curious to why people are all up in arms over this guy getting caught and getting more of a penalty than most turds that do a lot worse!:tup:
Post by: bearpaw on July 04, 2012, 11:58:44 AM
Class Warfare
Now, I would like to say I think the hatred displayed in this topic is disgusting. Just because somebody has more money than you do does not make them any less of a sportsman. In fact, in my own experience including the thousands of hunters I personally know, I would say that many hunters who are more successful in life are often far more sportsmanlike than many of the local slobs I see in the woods breaking every law they can get away with and poaching for no reason other than to kill.
Scouting From The Air
I believe the law is this way. You can scout all you want from the air. I have thought about doing it, but never have. As long as you don't hunt (carry a gun on the mountain) within a day after flying then your scouting is legal. Unless they flew or had somebody flying the same day they hunted, then no law was broken.
Lieing To Forest Officer
So the guy messed up, he lied to a forest cop about paying the guide. I am willing to bet that almost every member on this forum has cheated the system or lied about something to the government before. Broken the speed limit, broken some hunting or fishing law, lied to the IRS about something on their taxes, etc. The guy got caught, he is paying the maximum fine, and he cannpot recreate in any form on NFS for 2 years. Give me a break that he is not paying a high price for his small mistake. A mistake in judgement that is likely no more than many of you have made at some point in your life. My guess is that the guy has suffered more in embarrasment than most of you can imagine.
Hunting Hard
It has also been my experience that most well-to-do hunters are as willing to work harder on a hunt than many average folks. We took a couple guys from Denmark hunting last fall. One guy is pretty common (income-wise), the other guy is very well to do and owns businesses in several countries, yet they are best friends and hunting partners. Both hunted very hard and both were rewarded with large male cougar. They spent a day in the kitchen after the hunt making me and my guides one of the best meals we have ever had just because they wanted to treat us.
But honestly, it shouldn't matter if a guy hunts hard or not. It should be optional how hard anyone wants to hunt and how much effort they want to put into any hunt. Where is it written that a hunt has to be hard. Hunting should be about going to the woods and enjoying the outdoors any legal way you like and spending whatever amount of money you choose to spend in the process. This mentallity that a hunt has to be hard and that because one guy chooses to spend more than another is just dispicable and not what hunting should be about.
I have tried to make hunts easier on my kids, wife, family members, and clients whenever possible. Unless of course someone prefers to do it the hard way. To be even more honest, as I get older I can see I will be looking for easier forms of hunting as the years go by, just hope I will be able to enjoy a good road hunt or stand hunt when I am 80, some of you guys may have that outlawed by then because it's too frickin easy. What the hell are you going to do at 80 when it is required that you do 200 pushups and hike in 10 miles before you can start hunting. :bash:
And please, don't you dare go 1 mile an hour over the speed limit for the rest of your life. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I will get off my soapbox now. :hello:
Post by: kirkl on July 04, 2012, 12:30:48 PM
Post by: boneaddict on July 04, 2012, 12:32:16 PM
Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.
I've been for and against these tags. I've changed my mind several times. The only thing I think I am against now are the big headhunters coming in, like Mossback etc. I ahve never really liked that sort of thing, and believe somewhere along the line it goes against what I consider fair chase. That can be debated on another level in another thread on another day.
Post by: bearpaw on July 04, 2012, 01:17:08 PM
Your soapbox saved me alot of typing. Nice post Dale.
Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.
I've been for and against these tags. I've changed my mind several times. The only thing I think I am against now are the big headhunters coming in, like Mossback etc. I ahve never really liked that sort of thing, and believe somewhere along the line it goes against what I consider fair chase. That can be debated on another level in another thread on another day.
There obviously needs to be a limit to these high dollar tags.
It seems like wildlife management is mostly about the dollars anymore. Look at the number of multi-season tags. It amazes me that for a state that supposedly cannot allow multi-season hunting for the masses due to limited wildlife, they feel we can have thousands of multi-season tags if you are willing to pay the higher license fees. What's up with that. :dunno: :dunno:
I cannot comment about Mossback, sure I have heard the bitches about him, but how much is truth, how much is he actually quilty of doing? How much is just jealousy, I can't say either way. Until I know for a fact that the guy is breaking laws I am not going to slander him. I'll save this for another topic also. :chuckle:
Post by: Rainier10 on July 04, 2012, 01:22:00 PM
Your soapbox saved me alot of typing. Nice post Dale.:yeah:
Workstohunt, also a nice perspective.
Post by: huntnphool on July 04, 2012, 01:24:43 PM
I didn't see where they where hunting from a aircraft . Is it up to all hunters to make sure there guides are on the up and up?Too a certain extent yes but obviously there is no way Tod would be able to always know if the guide was breaking some of the rules. What makes him look bad is the fact that he lied, it just makes him look like he did know something was not right and attempted to hide the fact.
I've got no issues with these guys buying these tags and think its a great idea, I'd buy one too if I had the means.
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 01:54:23 PM
Post by: bearpaw on July 04, 2012, 02:09:21 PM
If I had been caught, I would probably owe a few dollars. :yike:
Probably doesn't mean I should never be allowed to drive again.... :dunno:
Post by: Austrian Hunter on July 04, 2012, 04:32:53 PM
he plead guilty to lying to a USFS employee about who his guide was and that he was paid for his services. Hardly something calling for a lifetime hunting ban as some on here have suggested.+1
+2
Post by: Austrian Hunter on July 04, 2012, 04:42:47 PM
Post by: huntnphool on July 05, 2012, 01:32:15 AM
I recently cheated the speed limits a little on my way to Mississippi to hog hunt and shoot gar.I have a couple cars that will exceed the maximum allowable limit in less than 5 seconds, I do my best to keep from calling Pope for bail :chuckle:
We all make mistakes at times and learn as we mature, nobody is perfect.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on July 05, 2012, 05:42:09 AM
Post by: arrowflinger on July 05, 2012, 04:56:04 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on July 05, 2012, 05:48:38 PM
Post by: b.roberts on July 05, 2012, 06:39:01 PM
:yeah: well said bearpaw. lots of do gooders here. amazing that out of 2000+ members on here not one of them has never done anything to break the law once in there life. wish i was that good.
I wish i was as well. I broke the law. I reported myself. My punishment was much less severe. And I am just a poor carpenter that represented myself.
Post by: b.roberts on July 05, 2012, 06:57:02 PM
First let me be clear, I beleive everyone should follow the law regardless of income level.
Class Warfare
Now, I would like to say I think the hatred displayed in this topic is disgusting. Just because somebody has more money than you do does not make them any less of a sportsman. In fact, in my own experience including the thousands of hunters I personally know, I would say that many hunters who are more successful in life are often far more sportsmanlike than many of the local slobs I see in the woods breaking every law they can get away with and poaching for no reason other than to kill.
Scouting From The Air
I believe the law is this way. You can scout all you want from the air. I have thought about doing it, but never have. As long as you don't hunt (carry a gun on the mountain) within a day after flying then your scouting is legal. Unless they flew or had somebody flying the same day they hunted, then no law was broken.
Lieing To Forest Officer
So the guy messed up, he lied to a forest cop about paying the guide. I am willing to bet that almost every member on this forum has cheated the system or lied about something to the government before. Broken the speed limit, broken some hunting or fishing law, lied to the IRS about something on their taxes, etc. The guy got caught, he is paying the maximum fine, and he cannpot recreate in any form on NFS for 2 years. Give me a break that he is not paying a high price for his small mistake. A mistake in judgement that is likely no more than many of you have made at some point in your life. My guess is that the guy has suffered more in embarrasment than most of you can imagine.
Hunting Hard
It has also been my experience that most well-to-do hunters are as willing to work harder on a hunt than many average folks. We took a couple guys from Denmark hunting last fall. One guy is pretty common (income-wise), the other guy is very well to do and owns businesses in several countries, yet they are best friends and hunting partners. Both hunted very hard and both were rewarded with large male cougar. They spent a day in the kitchen after the hunt making me and my guides one of the best meals we have ever had just because they wanted to treat us.
But honestly, it shouldn't matter if a guy hunts hard or not. It should be optional how hard anyone wants to hunt and how much effort they want to put into any hunt. Where is it written that a hunt has to be hard. Hunting should be about going to the woods and enjoying the outdoors any legal way you like and spending whatever amount of money you choose to spend in the process. This mentallity that a hunt has to be hard and that because one guy chooses to spend more than another is just dispicable and not what hunting should be about.
I have tried to make hunts easier on my kids, wife, family members, and clients whenever possible. Unless of course someone prefers to do it the hard way. To be even more honest, as I get older I can see I will be looking for easier forms of hunting as the years go by, just hope I will be able to enjoy a good road hunt or stand hunt when I am 80, some of you guys may have that outlawed by then because it's too frickin easy. What the hell are you going to do at 80 when it is required that you do 200 pushups and hike in 10 miles before you can start hunting. :bash:
And please, don't you dare go 1 mile an hour over the speed limit for the rest of your life. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I will get off my soapbox now. :hello:
That was one of the best posts I have read. Thanks. You said what I was trying to convey a lot better than I was able to.
And if huntnphool's comment about low post count was about me, I don't comment much. I am here almost daily, reading and learning from those that have much more experience than I. I felt compelled to post on this topic because I had my own mistake recently. I paid a lot less for my mistake and I am an average Joe.
Post by: huntnphool on July 05, 2012, 07:55:36 PM
Quote
And if huntnphool's comment about low post count was about me, I don't comment much. I am here almost daily, reading and learning from those that have much more experience than I. I felt compelled to post on this topic because I had my own mistake recently. I paid a lot less for my mistake and I am an average Joe.Nope, wasn't about anyone in particular, just a interesting observation. ;)
Post by: workstohunt on July 06, 2012, 08:32:53 AM
Just pointing out the difference Phool :tup:
Its all good :)
Post by: Austrian Hunter on July 06, 2012, 09:09:46 AM
I recently cheated the speed limits a little on my way to Mississippi to hog hunt and shoot gar.I have a couple cars that will exceed the maximum allowable limit in less than 5 seconds, I do my best to keep from calling Pope for bail :chuckle:
We all make mistakes at times and learn as we mature, nobody is perfect.
HMMM, I heard about your cars, maybe one day you send me a pic??? I fell off my chair when I heard what you have in the garage. :yike:
Post by: WSU on July 06, 2012, 09:49:18 AM
Whats interesting is that several guys that have been members on here for quite some time, yet have less than 100 posts total, feel compelled to finally make comments when it comes to threads like this.
Doubt that we'll see much coming about as a result of that either but may be a fine and bans on guiding or providing professional services on federal lands for a period of time.He knew the rules and regulations prior to breaking them in 07, yet he completely disregarded them anyway. What convinces you that this "ban" will result in a change in character?
Amazing isnt it Phool????? The rich just do as they please, get a minor slap on the wrist.. and still get to hunt.. You or I would be hung out to dry because we do not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars like Reichert and Agnew... So we do not get the special treatments they do ....
Exactly what special treatment did they get? They got charged with the crimes that fit what they did. They pled guilty, and are being sentenced within what the statute provides for.
Post by: b.roberts on July 06, 2012, 05:33:12 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on July 06, 2012, 06:52:45 PM
Post by: JJB11B on January 29, 2017, 05:34:38 PM
Lot of good points on here and some crazy ones as well. In the end this just puts another bad spotlight on hunting that we do not need..Yeah :yeah:
Post by: Whitefoot on February 15, 2017, 08:57:01 AM
Tag holder chatting with a business associate looking at the mount sipping brandy:
Mighty nice elk
yes it is
how did you get it?
well it was a rough hunt i tell you, i was fogged in for the morning, then i got word the weather was clearing so i set out
dressed in $1000.00 dollars of the finest imported latest not yet sold in store camo.
I climbed aboard my steed, a Bell 206L-4, and climbed to an alltitude perfect for glassing,
after several tense minutes i spotted this monster hiding in a canyon not accessible to anyone on foot
we made several passes, running this bull around the bowl until his tounge was dragging and i knew he was the one, radioed ahead to my "guide" and sent him the gps cordinates so he could be ready to retrive my trophy, and bring his posse and camera. after dismounting my noble steed (see bell 206L-4) i made the trek to the edge of the meadow and dropped him with my newest .000001 moa rifle from "You Cannot Afford it Rifle company"
took some hero shots and made it back just in time to watch jeopardy....
LOL>>>