Post by: JPhelps on July 15, 2012, 06:36:00 PM
Aggressive Elk Hunting for Herd Bulls
The majority of hunters each fall head into the woods with the idea in mind of calling a herd bull into range. Switch up your tactics and become aggressive to increase your chances.
I’ve probably heard it over a thousand times that “you need to call sparingly”, “don’t sound like too big of a bull”, “I like to setup 100 yards away while my partner sets up 75 yards behind me” and the best one of all “Roosevelt elk don’t call very much”. While sometimes these quotes maybe true or work in certain situations I do not subscribe to any of the rhetoric above. Instead I employ what some would call the run & gun, call too much and too loud, spook too many elk trying to get close, and the guy that scares all the elk out of an area guy.
Label me whatever you want to, because my only goal is to harvest an elk every year and with the tactics I employ I feel I increase my chances of obtaining my goal exponentially.
GET CLOSE:
I mean get within 100 yards before any calling setup and I actually prefer the 60-70 yard range. Some guys say this is not calling an elk in, but I will let them call them whatever they want. By getting in this close you have now become a threat to that herd bull and his cows.
If you do not get close enough the bull has nothing too lose and the majority of the time he will take his cows that he already has and will exit stage left.
USE BULL AND COW SOUNDS:
I hear a lot of guys say that they “only use cow sounds when they get in close”. That is fine and WILL work but in my opinion you have just cut the effectiveness of your calling setup to about 25% if you were using a combination of cow/bull sounds or even bull sounds alone.
In the elk world once a bull has his cows he will call new cows into the herd not the other way around (remember this is herd bulls we are talking about, satellite bulls are different). Therefore if cow calling you are expected to go to the bull and a lot of the time a bull will not wander to far away from his herd to investigate this new cow.
By mixing in pleading/whiny estrus sounds followed by a challenge bugle you have just painted a whole new picture for the bull. The bull now sees the situation as a cow coming into estrus and all of a sudden there is another bull tending and challenging for this cow. The bull will go through the whole fight or flight decision and if you did your job and got close enough “fight” should be the right answer.
CALL TYPE/VOLUME:
This gets back to the idea about not sounding too big or not too loud. I challenge everyone to go out in the woods and setup their video camera or try it with some hunting buddies and move 100 yards apart and see what the volume is of your calls (you will be surprised).
When I am setting up to call in herd bull I never cut back my calling or put in a reed that sounds like a little raghorn. I hit him with mature bull sounds and don’t hold back on the volume. I also use full length growls, raspy grunts, etc… to give the idea that I am the baddest bull in the area.
CALL OFTEN:
When another bull gets fired up he may sound off every 10 seconds and it is necessary to match his intensity and frequency (I try to picture two guys getting into it at a bar. It takes both guys getting fired up for there to be a confrontation).
Even when they aren’t bugling frequently or aggressively I usually still will. I don’t know how many times I have seemed to work the bull up just by aggressive calling and being so close to his herd (picture a guy yelling at someone consistently, eventually the cool calm guy will snap).
Also don’t be afraid to make “natural noise” to add to the realism. Sticks breaking, raking trees, stomping on the ground, etc… only add to proving to that bull that there truly are elk close to him and his harem.
Try some of these tactics this year to increase your odds of bagging a herd bull!
In the video below you can see the aggressive bugling and estrus calling I employ even as the bulls are coming in:
Aggressive calling at 7:30
Primetime Outdoors - Gettin After It: Season 2 - Archery Elk Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2ZtU2GYE4#ws)
Aggressive Calling at 11:20
Primetime Outdoors - Gettin After It: Season 2 - Archery Elk Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLC6EhaXLyM#ws)
Post by: Bean Counter on July 15, 2012, 06:44:10 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on July 15, 2012, 06:56:33 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on July 15, 2012, 07:01:50 PM
Post by: buglebuster on July 15, 2012, 07:16:58 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 15, 2012, 09:17:01 PM
There are also some out of the Box EXTREME tactics that have worked. I will cover these more later but it is important to understand the risk is great and could potentially mess up your hunting for day or weeks to come (late season tactic when you are going for broke):
~ Rushing the herd and scattering the cows
~ Call and walk into the herd
~ Waiting in the bedding area
Post by: smartazz171 on July 16, 2012, 11:51:25 AM
Post by: WapitiTalk1 on July 20, 2012, 06:56:39 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 20, 2012, 07:14:17 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 25, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
Post by: JLS on July 25, 2013, 06:14:05 PM
Post by: coachcw on July 25, 2013, 06:19:43 PM
Post by: xXLojackXx on July 25, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
Post by: Johnb317 on July 25, 2013, 06:28:40 PM
Post by: janttihunter on July 25, 2013, 06:51:05 PM
Post by: coachcw on July 25, 2013, 08:48:41 PM
Post by: Smossy on July 25, 2013, 09:11:29 PM
Thanks Guys.How long you been hunting elk Jason?
There are also some out of the Box EXTREME tactics that have worked. I will cover these more later but it is important to understand the risk is great and could potentially mess up your hunting for day or weeks to come (late season tactic when you are going for broke):
~ Rushing the herd and scattering the cows
~ Call and walk into the herd
~ Waiting in the bedding area
Post by: fillthefreezer on July 25, 2013, 09:20:32 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 25, 2013, 09:22:20 PM
I hope by passing some information along that it may help some others out.
Post by: Huntboy on July 25, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Post by: Smossy on July 25, 2013, 09:27:23 PM
18 years (Which isn't a lot compared to some of the others on here). I was consumed around 16 years old to learn everything I could about elk and their behavior during the rut. I would spend everyday during September in the woods, watching, listening and ultimately learning. My family has always been rifle/muzzleloader hunters so I was on my own learning how to archery hunt and call elk. I took a lot of notes and learned a lot of lessons along the way.Your helping for sure man, I was just curious how long it took you to acquire all the knowledge you have on Elk. You still seem like your pretty young to. My only downfall will be JUST getting into hunting at the good ol' age of 26 with no friends or family that hunt. :dunno: Going to be interesting the next few years. Hopefully sticking something this year will give me more incentive to want to learn and pay attention to information more.
I hope by passing some information along that it may help some others out.
Even without having any field time, over the last few days I've been digging deeper and deeper into anything I can in relation to Elk. Its getting me antsy, I don't really think there would be a more rewarding hunt then out-smarting and sticking an Elk with a Bow. Keep it up man :tup: Your appreciated.
Post by: trophyhunt on July 25, 2013, 10:33:57 PM
Post by: Fullabull on July 26, 2013, 02:47:48 PM
Where we hunt we only see cows and satellite bulls and have taken a couple of the satellites by using a lot of calling. Both bulls have been called in using different methods, 1st was combo of cow calls, estrus sounds and young bull sounds. Called him in from a long ways off, then moved in close and gave estrus calls and he came right up the hill to us. The second one was last year, things were pretty slow and hot and we were not getting any responses to anything normal so I gave a lazy little bugle and bingo, a bull answered and came in to investigate and we got him :)
Anyway, if you can provide any good info on these early season tactics that would be great also. Not all of us can hunt for trophies ;)
In three years by son will be out of college, we will have about 12 points each so we will start putting in for a good hunt and hopefully get a couple of nice bulls.
BTW, I ordered a few of your reed calls (small frame), can't wait to try them out when the get here.
Post by: buglebrush on July 26, 2013, 03:26:07 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 29, 2013, 11:41:59 AM
I never worry about over calling and always wonder why people say to be careful about that. We have been pretty successful hunting the east side and all of my elk over the last 7 years have been called in, but we are almost always chasing cows and spikes or helping others get a bull. This year will be different and like Charlie said to you, "when will you kill a big one" - well this year, I plan on learning as much as I can about tagging a HERD BULL!
Great article by the way in Extreme Elk magazine! :tup:
Post by: JPhelps on July 29, 2013, 03:26:13 PM
Post by: HoofsandWings on July 29, 2013, 04:16:20 PM
Thanks Guys.
There are also some out of the Box EXTREME tactics that have worked. I will cover these more later but it is important to understand the risk is great and could potentially mess up your hunting for day or weeks to come (late season tactic when you are going for broke):
~ Rushing the herd and scattering the cows
~ Call and walk into the herd
~ Waiting in the bedding area
Will this type of calling work in November?
It is pretty easy to carry my elk bugle.
Post by: JPhelps on July 29, 2013, 04:42:26 PM
Thanks Guys.
There are also some out of the Box EXTREME tactics that have worked. I will cover these more later but it is important to understand the risk is great and could potentially mess up your hunting for day or weeks to come (late season tactic when you are going for broke):
~ Rushing the herd and scattering the cows
~ Call and walk into the herd
~ Waiting in the bedding area
Will this type of calling work in November?
It is pretty easy to carry my elk bugle.
I would say that they are better suited for the Rut. But waiting in the bedding area, scattering the herd (using lost cow calls) and call and walk into the herd could potentially all work in November.
Post by: docsven on July 29, 2013, 05:52:49 PM
Post by: Huntography on July 29, 2013, 07:08:10 PM
Thank you.
Rudy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Post by: hogsniper on July 29, 2013, 07:10:38 PM
Post by: smartazz171 on July 30, 2013, 09:45:37 AM
Good write up Jphelps! Now if I don't kill a big bull this year its all YOUR fault!:yeah: :chuckle:
Post by: Pilot_Hunter on July 30, 2013, 11:04:01 AM
Post by: kentrek on July 30, 2013, 11:36:43 AM
[/quote]
Will this type of calling work in November?
It is pretty easy to carry my elk bugle.
[/quote]
I would say that they are better suited for the Rut. But waiting in the bedding area, scattering the herd (using lost cow calls) and call and walk into the herd could potentially all work in November.
[/quote]
will def work in November..even December
esp the cow calls after the herd has been all busted up an that herd bull is trying to regain order
alot of these tactics depend on how much presure the "target" elk have..every elk/elk herd is going to be alil different so its nice to have a big tackle box
Post by: blacktailcody on July 30, 2013, 11:37:07 AM
Great write up.
Post by: Elkpiss on July 30, 2013, 01:24:47 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 30, 2013, 01:32:28 PM
Thanks for the tips! I was wondering if you always keep the reed in your mouth? Or do you leave it in your mouth just when you know you are in close and going to do a lot of calling?
I usually always have a call in mouth (except lunch time :tung:)
Ya pretty much right on the money... Takes a dude along time to figure out what you just told everyone right there!... "Run & Gunner's" & Aggressive Elk Hunters Kill far more elk then reserved and over thinkin Elk Hunters IMO.. Get Ahold of me here in the next few weeks JP...
Will do. I know last year when I originally posted this information I received 4 or 5 personal messages asking why I shared it. I hope that it will help someone out there notch a tag.
Post by: SuperMag on July 30, 2013, 01:45:01 PM
Post by: huntnnw on July 30, 2013, 03:08:06 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 30, 2013, 04:03:26 PM
I will say hunting in NE WA and N ID I employed the same tactics as written above for years. I had spotty results and killed a few elk with them . The last 4 years I have completely changed the way I call and my opportunities and harvest numbers have jumped way up! I have all but tossed the bugle away, I have toned down my cow calls to very soft and not loud and its working .. Dunno if its due to wolves having an effect on them or even the lack of mature bulls with cows around here being a issue , our herds around here avg 4-7 cows and almost any branched bull has cows. I cannot even begin to count how many bulls ran away from me inside 50-100 yards after I set up and cow called and mixed in bugles .. I called in 1 bull for my dad was it .
ALWAYS use what works.
I have used the aggressive tactics for raghorns (my specialty), herd bulls, roosevelts and rocky mtn. bulls all with good success, but if I watched it fail too many times I may consider switching it up.
Post by: huntnnw on July 30, 2013, 04:56:59 PM
Post by: buglebuster on July 30, 2013, 11:19:42 PM
Post by: huntnnw on July 30, 2013, 11:53:54 PM
Post by: brianmtsinc on July 31, 2013, 07:28:06 AM
I am curious what you would do in a particular situation that we face often and will again soon.
We arrive at the top of a very big (never ending it seems) STEEP HOLE. We blow a locator bugle. We get a response from the bottom. Which as am trying to describe is a LONG HARD HIKE .... Do you try at all to get that bull to come up out of that hole or do you just sneak into the "red zone" before you call again?
I think we may spend too much time trying to bring him out and then by the time we go down in there, he has already had enough ?? :dunno:
Thanks for you input!
Brian C.
Post by: huntnnw on July 31, 2013, 07:32:02 AM
Post by: JPhelps on July 31, 2013, 11:57:01 AM
Jason,
I am curious what you would do in a particular situation that we face often and will again soon.
We arrive at the top of a very big (never ending it seems) STEEP HOLE. We blow a locator bugle. We get a response from the bottom. Which as am trying to describe is a LONG HARD HIKE .... Do you try at all to get that bull to come up out of that hole or do you just sneak into the "red zone" before you call again?
I think we may spend too much time trying to bring him out and then by the time we go down in there, he has already had enough ?? :dunno:
Thanks for you input!
Brian C.
What is the wind doing?
If blowing down or if it will continue blowing down you will have to drop below him. When calling I like to try and be on contour or a little below but sometimes it isn't possible.
If I had a good lock on his location I wouldn't make another peep until I got the wind tight and in close (hopefully he will bugle on his own a couple times to assist). You have to make yourself a threat to that bull and his cows.
If this bull did this to me more than once or twice I may try to start below him the following morning (the wind will be right and he should respond to a locator)
Post by: HoofsandWings on July 31, 2013, 02:51:52 PM
Post by: smartazz171 on July 31, 2013, 06:03:35 PM
I've rarely called a bull uphill.. I usually try to be at the same level or below
Hunt NW that is some really good advice that you have to learn from lots of blown set ups. couldn't agree more :tup:
Post by: h2ofowlr on July 31, 2013, 07:02:30 PM
Post by: JPhelps on July 31, 2013, 07:14:54 PM
Primetime Outdoors - Gettin After It: Season 2 - Archery Elk Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2ZtU2GYE4#ws)
Post by: brianmtsinc on August 02, 2013, 09:27:12 AM
Jason,
I am curious what you would do in a particular situation that we face often and will again soon.
We arrive at the top of a very big (never ending it seems) STEEP HOLE. We blow a locator bugle. We get a response from the bottom. Which as am trying to describe is a LONG HARD HIKE .... Do you try at all to get that bull to come up out of that hole or do you just sneak into the "red zone" before you call again?
I think we may spend too much time trying to bring him out and then by the time we go down in there, he has already had enough ?? :dunno:
Thanks for you input!
Brian C.
What is the wind doing?
If blowing down or if it will continue blowing down you will have to drop below him. When calling I like to try and be on contour or a little below but sometimes it isn't possible.
If I had a good lock on his location I wouldn't make another peep until I got the wind tight and in close (hopefully he will bugle on his own a couple times to assist). You have to make yourself a threat to that bull and his cows.
If this bull did this to me more than once or twice I may try to start below him the following morning (the wind will be right and he should respond to a locator)
Thanks for the advice Jason! In the next couple of days I am headed to get a camera down into the bottom of this hole to hopefully get a pic of the bull(s) down there before the season starts. We are working out and getting in shape so hopefully this place wont kick our butts so bad this year!
The difficulty with getting on his same level is that it is just same damn steep.... but we will figure it out. We usually have a solid up hill wind in the afternoon, so that may be our time to strike! :tup:
Side note - just order a few more of your calls ! Cant wait to get them!
Thanks again Jason!
Brian C