Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 08:16:39 AM
Len McIrvin explains the attack was confirmed by 9 LEO all standing together in concensus, including the sherrif's dept which has had training in identifying wolf attacks and WDFW officers.
He states that the WDFW will not allow it to be reported as a wolf attack yet. The report has to go through the state office (for a political decision) to determine if it can be considered a wolf attack.
McIrvin says there are so many more wolves than what the state is reporting to the people and claims WDFW knows it.
(wished I had the audio file to post here)
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 15, 2012, 08:20:54 AM
I feel bad for you guys in Stevens Co., but it won't be long before we're all in the same boat.
Post by: BigFoot02 on August 15, 2012, 08:21:37 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 08:21:55 AM
Post by: JohnVH on August 15, 2012, 08:22:40 AM
Say it aint true, we're not being told the truth.....
This is nothing new.
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 08:30:22 AM
Post by: Maverick on August 15, 2012, 08:33:57 AM
Post by: Huntbear on August 15, 2012, 08:39:03 AM
I was told they detest mutton and beef!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Maybe they just need hugs..
After all, they would never attack a person or a domestic animal.... :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: buckhorn2 on August 15, 2012, 08:51:55 AM
Post by: NWBREW on August 15, 2012, 09:10:53 AM
Wished some of you guys could tune into our local radio, they tell it the way it is, no sugar coating and definitely no liberal spin. :chuckle:
Can you give us the # of the station?
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 09:13:58 AM
Wished some of you guys could tune into our local radio, they tell it the way it is, no sugar coating and definitely no liberal spin. :chuckle:
Can you give us the # of the station?
KCVL - 1240 AM Colville, WA
Local News is on again at Noon
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 15, 2012, 09:17:31 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on August 15, 2012, 09:55:48 AM
Post by: buckfvr on August 15, 2012, 10:04:35 AM
KCVL Radio - Colville
Len McIrvin explains the attack was confirmed by 9 LEO all standing together in concensus, including the sherrif's dept which has had training in identifying wolf attacks and WDFW officers.
He states that the WDFW will not allow it to be reported as a wolf attack yet. The report has to go through the state office (for a political decision) to determine if it can be considered a wolf attack.
McIrvin says there are so many more wolves than what the state is reporting to the people and claims WDFW knows it.
(wished I had the audio file to post here)
Its a shame , for what ever reason, the LEOs dont have the gonies to stand up and be counted....tell the truth you guys !!!!!!!! Im sure they all fear it will kill their careers, and probably rightly so. I just cant see how they can sleep at night with this on their minds. They know right and wrong, but wont speak out. Some say cant, but thats a total cop out....they can speak out , but will probably pay a price. Its all part of a political agenda/end run that is being rammed down our throats.......and our LEOs are allowing it to happen. If they can stand by and watch this happen, what else are they capable of ????????? :twocents:
Post by: Northway on August 15, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
That sucks. Some wolves just cannot behave. I hope the WDFW responds quickly
I'm not sure what the current tally is on confirmed depredations, but I am sure there are conversations being had about removing this whole pack as we type. On top of being barely over the border from Canada, the pack is in what is most likely the highest density wolf country in the state right now. Politically, the main reason for waffling on the decision is because it could end up being the first entire pack removed in the state since recolonization.
Post by: Atroxus on August 15, 2012, 10:44:48 AM
Post by: FALFire on August 15, 2012, 12:49:50 PM
So there ya'll have it boys.....dems coyotes ya'll be hearing about!!! :IBCOOL: Martha....fetch my rifle, I'm going huntin' :hunter:
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 15, 2012, 12:54:36 PM
Well the news is now in straight from WDFW..........Turns out it wasn't wolf attacks at all, never has been, nope, it's a pack of sheep, sheep gone wild they say. Several sheep were reported missing from that area last year but seems no one gave it a thought, figured wolves or coyotes must have got 'em. These sheep have mutated into a carnivore eating, cow killing machines that roam around at night preying on loose cattle. They have been reported to have grown very large teeth that can bite clean through a oak fence post with one chomp. WDFW nearly trapped one last night but it was able to tear it's way through the 1/2" cable snare laid by area trappers. WDFW claims they are now not even looking for the elusive wolf packs so many have claimed to have seen running around the mountains and photographed on game cams. The WDFW is now stating all those photos thought to originally be of wolves are merely coyotes and state that coyote season is year round and can be shot on site :tup:
So there ya'll have it boys.....dems coyotes ya'll be hearing about!!! :IBCOOL: Martha....fetch my rifle, I'm going huntin' :hunter:
Well, this is very good news then. Open season on over-sized, sheep-like coyotes. I'm sure the residents of Stevens County are very relieved!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 15, 2012, 12:55:28 PM
Post by: FALFire on August 15, 2012, 12:58:28 PM
Zombie Sheep??? Maybe that's the Zombie Apocolypse the government has been warning us about! :chuckle: :chuckle:
I'm loading Zombie ammo as I type. Think a couple thousand rounds will do? Head shots man, head shots :yike:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on August 15, 2012, 01:16:30 PM
Zombie Sheep??? Maybe that's the Zombie Apocolypse the government has been warning us about! :chuckle: :chuckle:
I'm loading Zombie ammo as I type. Think a couple thousand rounds will do? Head shots man, head shots :yike:
I dunno....I gave up on those dinky 100-round boxes long ago, and just fill Folgers Coffee Cans now. Make sure you double-tap those Zombies in the head! :tup:
Post by: Special T on August 15, 2012, 01:40:25 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on August 15, 2012, 05:55:51 PM
To avoid any impropriety, I am sure wildlife is planning over reaching licensing fees, burdensome, inconsistent and unclear regulation and inconvenient seasons and after harvest measures for coyotes soon...
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 15, 2012, 06:07:05 PM
You mean to tell me that there are wolves some place other than the Teanaway! That's preposterous! I can see where this isn't any kind of special news. :sry:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 15, 2012, 06:12:05 PM
Post by: mkcj on August 15, 2012, 06:59:01 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2012, 07:00:52 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 15, 2012, 07:03:04 PM
Brings new meaning to the term "Slow Elk" huh?
...........stop, now we're profiling elk !!! :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 07:39:50 PM
I would try talking to David Boze http://www.davidboze.com/ (http://www.davidboze.com/) He is a talk show guy here in the seattle area. He is a hunter, avid shooter and grew up in the stanwood area. With the right kind of info and conversation you might get him to do a little talking on the subject. :dunno:
Great idea, I sent a message to that site telling them I could put them in touch with locals who have first hand experience with these wolves.
Post by: SpringerFan on August 15, 2012, 08:28:36 PM
I would like to get out and scout for a few friends who deer hunt around deadmans creek.
Should I be worried? I will have protection......but it would kill me to have somenthing happen to a family member or dog.
This crap is out of hand.
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 08:33:17 PM
Ok you guys are scaring me.........I am taking a week off to take the wife, grandchild and two Springers up to the Kettle Falls area for a week of camping.
I would like to get out and scout for a few friends who deer hunt around deadmans creek.
Should I be worried? I will have protection......but it would kill me to have somenthing happen to a family member or dog.
This crap is out of hand.
You will probably be fine. There are wolves near deadman creek , the photo below was taken about 5 miles north of deadman creek near Barstow last winter. We think it's a new population and not a lot of individuals yet. But they may have had pups this spring, I don't know yet. Might want to keep a pistol with you, it's bear country too.
Post by: KFhunter on August 15, 2012, 08:44:29 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 15, 2012, 08:48:19 PM
and there are some wackos up there too :chuckle:
How about the old school bus on blocks with two additions. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: SpringerFan on August 15, 2012, 10:35:24 PM
and there are some wackos up there too :chuckle:
How about the old school bus on blocks with two additions. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well that helped!!!
I will for sure be ready (pistol included)
Never been up in this area before so was looking for some help.......not wackos. :yike: :mgun2: :stup: :mor: :guns:
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 16, 2012, 05:03:40 AM
and there are some wackos up there too :chuckle:
I might resemble this remark.
SpringerFan just use common sense and don't let your dog's be free range with out keeping and eye on them.
My Golden say's she's not skeerd but then she also knows what she has on her Right hip when she is away from the truck.
Post by: bearpaw on August 16, 2012, 08:12:11 AM
McIrvin is on Colville Radio again right now explaining how each calf lost to wolves costs them $1000.
McIrvin says that WDFW did not tell them when they had killed a wolf last week, he learned about it first from the radio, he is not happy about the lack of communication from WDFW.
McIrvin also claims WDFW targeted the wrong wolf that was killed last week. He says until they take out the breeding female that is doing the killing that he is going to continue losing cattle.
Post by: NWBREW on August 16, 2012, 08:21:04 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 16, 2012, 11:24:41 AM
If McIrvin's continue losing cattle then I think WDFW will do something because they can claim they had no choice. What's sad is that the McIrvin's are bearing the cost of urban wolf lovers wanting wolves in WA. Unless McIrvin's can find every calf, bull, or cow that is eaten within a couple days of death and get it confirmed, they will get no compensation for their losses.
At the same time their whole herd is probably not gaining weight due to being harrassed by wolves. It has been proven in ID/MT that cattle harrassed by wolves gain far less weight than cattle without wolf harrassment. I'm going to guess that McIrvins (largest cattle producer in Stevens county) may have 1000 to 2000 cattle.
For simplicity: If 1000 cattle gain 100 pounds less due to wolf harrassment while on the range, that is 100,000 less pounds of beef to sell in the fall. At $1 per pound that is a loss of $100,000 just on the weight gain, not to mention the full loss of any cattle that are eaten or die from harrasment.
Post by: bearpaw on August 16, 2012, 11:29:15 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 16, 2012, 11:51:08 AM
Post by: jackmaster on August 16, 2012, 12:01:49 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 16, 2012, 06:12:20 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 16, 2012, 06:15:16 PM
I would venture to guess with the amount of attention this has brought the local roads might just look like I-5.
But what do I know.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 06:18:31 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 06:26:01 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 16, 2012, 06:27:08 PM
I thought you were banned Humanure:yeah:
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 06:29:44 PM
:tinfoil:
I would venture to guess with the amount of attention this has brought the local roads might just look like I-5.
But what do I know.
they do - substitute WSP every other mile with WDFW vehicles.
good place to avoid
Post by: Limhangerslayer on August 16, 2012, 06:31:14 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 06:40:36 PM
Rancher up the road prolly less than 50 pair
but still, no one needs those kind of losses
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 16, 2012, 06:45:05 PM
:tinfoil:
I would venture to guess with the amount of attention this has brought the local roads might just look like I-5.
But what do I know.
they do - substitute WSP every other mile with WDFW vehicles.
good place to avoid
My guess is every Gov. agency that has a rig will be running around, Forest Circus, Border clowns, USFWS yahoo's,WDFG, the anti's and the pro do gooder's. Did I leave anyone out? If so feel free to post them as well.
Post by: seth30 on August 16, 2012, 06:54:11 PM
Ya it is really easy to sell a ranch buy a new one and move equipment plus 5000 head. And do all that because some wolves are killing your cattle, easier solution take care of problem wolves! In this case, that whole packIts easy for those sitting behind a computer in a conrete jungle to think that ranchers can just get up and move. :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 06:58:39 PM
Too bad they aren't releasing more pics
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on August 16, 2012, 07:27:06 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on August 16, 2012, 07:37:57 PM
It is all part of the territory. If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move. Nobody is forcing them to stay here.
You think the ranchers wanted wolves on their territory you are kindly mistaken...... Nobody is forcing them to stay here.... But they are being forced to deal with a predator that doesn't care about anything beyond itself and greed for the kill.... The wolf has been forced upon us.... Not my choice..... Nor theirs..... They are dealing with it the only way they can legally do so..... Cry me a *censored*ing river..... I bet if that was your back yard and your precious dog/cat/child/ livestock/whatever came up missing or found to be a possible wolf attack your opinion would change..... :tup: Good luck here....
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 16, 2012, 07:51:45 PM
Why? Because we have 2 different opinions on opposite sides of the arguement. I could just as easily say, people that think ranchers are getting screwed out of cash, due to cattle loses "missed by a mile." I don't think the game department should have to pay loses, which get passed off on the hunters. It is all part of the territory. If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move. Nobody is forcing them to stay here.
The ranchers have been ther long before the wolves ever showed up. Control the wolves and stop blaming the ranchers. IDIOT !
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 16, 2012, 07:55:04 PM
Just wish I had snacks!!
Post by: SpringerFan on August 16, 2012, 08:12:06 PM
and there are some wackos up there too :chuckle:
I might resemble this remark.
SpringerFan just use common sense and don't let your dog's be free range with out keeping and eye on them.
My Golden say's she's not skeerd but then she also knows what she has on her Right hip when she is away from the truck.
They won't be. I have them trained to quarter and obey whistle commands. They both are always checking in. And listen well.
When I am in the woods my head is on a swivel and ears wide open.
Thanks for the advice!
Post by: RG on August 16, 2012, 08:33:37 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 16, 2012, 08:46:50 PM
Whoever the guy is who said the rancher should just sell and move is out of touch with reality. I worked for ranches in Montana and it's a clearly understood fact that the people who own and work these ranches put their life and soul into their work . They raise cattle and squeak out a living because that's what they know and love and it's in the land that they love too. The wolves were thrown into the mix by unknowing, uncaring city folk who have no roots or understanding in the wild lands that they think they know. I've worked as a hunting guide and packer in multiple western states and have spent a lifetime hunting and travelling in the wilderness in many more as well as Canadian wilderness areas too. Wolves are just another predator which, if managed by common sense, could easily coexist with the bears, cougars, coyotes, etc. Politics and cityfied know it all attitudes are influencing the situation and turning it into a debacle. You clearly have no experience or roots there either. Spend five years working cows on a cattle ranch, and five or ten more making your living working in the backcountry and wilderness areas of the West, then tell me how you feel because you will have the experience to come to a qualified conclusion, otherwise spend your time debating the issues that you have some experience and valid knowledge about. This clearly isn't your subject.
Good post Russ. :tup:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 16, 2012, 09:03:40 PM
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 09:11:56 PM
If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move.
I've yet to come across a rancher that doesn't like where they live. Not one. You've got it all backwards GH - YOU don't like where they live.
You are more than welcome to come knock on doors in the N.E. and tell us to get out. Let me know how that works out for you
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 10:36:07 PM
It is all part of the territory. If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move. Nobody is forcing them to stay here.
You think the ranchers wanted wolves on their territory you are kindly mistaken...... Nobody is forcing them to stay here.... But they are being forced to deal with a predator that doesn't care about anything beyond itself and greed for the kill.... The wolf has been forced upon us.... Not my choice..... Nor theirs..... They are dealing with it the only way they can legally do so..... Cry me a *censored* river..... I bet if that was your back yard and your precious dog/cat/child/ livestock/whatever came up missing or found to be a possible wolf attack your opinion would change..... :tup: Good luck here....
Please explain to me where I stated "I think ranchers wanted wolves on their territory." You have the wrong member of the forum.
That is awesome that they are dealing with it legally. Never said they were not. Don't know what your speaking about in crying a censored river for? I don't disagree with what the ranchers are doing. Just said if they can't take the HEAT then MOVE!! and stop crying about it. It is part of being a rancher. Some are forced to deal with wolves, grizzlies, etc. Some are NOT.
If it was my dog, cat, etc like you stated, my opinion would not change, because I support the ranchers. I would shoot the entire pack. AGAIN, just saying...if the ranchers are that UNHAPPY THEN MOVE. I never said it was EASY TO MOVE. Ranchers sell their ranch and move all the time. Usually they sell the livestock and equipment with the ranch.
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 10:45:47 PM
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:02:45 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on August 16, 2012, 11:05:54 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 16, 2012, 11:07:50 PM
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 11:09:10 PM
I'm trying to hear you out GH, but you're all over the place and i can't really pinpoint what point you are attempting to make :dunno:
Post by: fishunt247 on August 16, 2012, 11:09:17 PM
Quote
I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW,
You listened to the game department because why? Because they are genuine stewards of wildlife who have the health of this state's herds and flocks in mind? Jesus. You clearly haven't been around this state, or this issue, very long.
Post by: Kola16 on August 16, 2012, 11:14:18 PM
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:15:20 PM
So Gamehunter, you are saying that you would give up a career and livelihood that you have worked for (and your fathers and grandfathers have probably worked for and passed down) all because someone new rolled into town and threatened to take away everything you have? BS. You'd fight for it. That's what these ranchers are doing.
AGAIN, another forum member that does not take the time to read my post. I said I SIDE WITH THE RANCHERS!!!! I also said that it is part of being a rancher dealing with grizzlies, wolves, elk, etc. and if it IS THAT BAD, then sell your ranch and MOVE. I also said I would shoot THE ENTIRE PACK. READ before you leap into forum suicide and make yourself look stupid.
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 11:17:24 PM
But maybe some pictures of chewed up bloody calves with their asses hanging inside out would placiate people like you. The WDFW confirmed the attacks I don't really know what else you'd need.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:23:06 PM
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 11:25:03 PM
Just looking for clarification
Post by: sebek556 on August 16, 2012, 11:26:05 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on August 16, 2012, 11:29:34 PM
By your logic, since I am a teacher, if a kid were to come to school with a gun and shoot me, I couldn't complain because it comes with the territory? Or a police officer's wife couldn't complain if her husband was shot in the line of duty?
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 11:30:19 PM
They want the freedom to protect their livestock without the threat of fines and imprisonment. WDFW is holding a hammer over their heads while the wolves are chewing away their livelyhood. And you tell em to move if they can't take the heat.
ignorant
Post by: Kola16 on August 16, 2012, 11:32:01 PM
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:33:22 PM
I kind of wish they'd release more pictures. The McIrvins have more class then that though, they are good people and are trying to do it the right way. They are not liars or con artists nor are they going to milk the system. They've stood up and said we will not take handouts to shut us up. I had a lot of respect for them before this all happend and have even more now. I may even go up and volunteer come round up time. God knows I'm ve chased a lot of cattle up in that country :chuckle:
But maybe some pictures of chewed up bloody calves with their asses hanging inside out would placiate people like you. The WDFW confirmed the attacks I don't really know what else you'd need.
This would be the same game department, which just about everyone in this forum has little to zero faith in. Show me a video. So now the forum beleives them because they want to think it was wolves that attacked. The forum members seem to drift in whatever direction helps boost their opinions. Not saying it was not wolves, because it sounds like it was. That is off my point in the first place.
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 11:37:12 PM
Can you please answer my previous question?
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:37:57 PM
Can you clarify GH - if you were a rancher would you leave the land you love or would you shoot the entire pack? The former isn't as cut and dry as just packing up and starting over somewhere else, and the latter is illegal.
Just looking for clarification
I would try and do it legally, but if I was getting nowhere. I would shoot the pack off and take my chances.
Post by: Kola16 on August 16, 2012, 11:39:57 PM
Can you clarify GH - if you were a rancher would you leave the land you love or would you shoot the entire pack? The former isn't as cut and dry as just packing up and starting over somewhere else, and the latter is illegal.
Just looking for clarification
I would try and do it legally, but if I was getting nowhere. I would shoot the pack off and take my chances.
The problem with that is that the only gun that you have shot was on a video game. Maybe.
Post by: silverdalesauer on August 16, 2012, 11:42:08 PM
This is much more entertaining than the local news.
Just wish I had snacks!!
I agree. I'm sitting here reading this dialogue while chewing on a bowl of pistachios. More entertaining than reading the game regs. :)
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:44:47 PM
I read your post. I didn't think I was committing "forum suicide" by pointing out that just selling a livelihood isn't a valid option. It's ridiculous, actually,
By your logic, since I am a teacher, if a kid were to come to school with a gun and shoot me, I couldn't complain because it comes with the territory? Or a police officer's wife couldn't complain if her husband was shot in the line of duty?
Those are not realistic examples. Please come back with something more relevant, and I am happy to have an intelligent debate with you.
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 11:47:46 PM
ya :rolleyes:
Post by: silverdalesauer on August 16, 2012, 11:48:06 PM
I read your post. I didn't think I was committing "forum suicide" by pointing out that just selling a livelihood isn't a valid option. It's ridiculous, actually,
By your logic, since I am a teacher, if a kid were to come to school with a gun and shoot me, I couldn't complain because it comes with the territory? Or a police officer's wife couldn't complain if her husband was shot in the line of duty?
Those are not realistic examples. Please come back with something more relevant, and I am happy to have an intelligent debate with you.
Ummmmmm........ Seriously? You're kidding right? :DOH:
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 11:48:46 PM
Can you clarify GH - if you were a rancher would you leave the land you love or would you shoot the entire pack? The former isn't as cut and dry as just packing up and starting over somewhere else, and the latter is illegal.
Just looking for clarification
I would try and do it legally, but if I was getting nowhere. I would shoot the pack off and take my chances.
So you wouldn't move, and you'd wipe out the pack. Got it.
Your message to other ranchers though is that they should just move.
In your next conversation with WDFW (since you claim to have contacted them regarding the topics on this forum, right after claiming to not care about peoples opinions on this forum),feel free to make them aware of how you'd handle things per this conversation.
Not that they aren't already aware, considering not only do they monitor this forum but are have members on it.
I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Post by: KFhunter on August 16, 2012, 11:50:31 PM
I think he needs banned again.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:50:43 PM
The ranch refused compensation, they were offered but declined. They spell out the reason/s for declining compensation very well in some of the articles Bearpaw posted. I don't think you read them or you wouldn't have made that ignorant statement. I told you to go read some more and get back to us.
They want the freedom to protect their livestock without the threat of fines and imprisonment. WDFW is holding a hammer over their heads while the wolves are chewing away their livelyhood. And you tell em to move if they can't take the heat.
ignorant
I have read all of Dales articles, and spent time with him going over the facts. I am know newbie to this topic. Go ahead and name call me ignorant. I could just as easily call you names, but I don't want to break forum rules and get banned. The sad thing is, I agree with the forum 110% regarding the ranchers and the management of wolves. The forum is upset because I am looking at the issue from both sides, versus posting meaninless posts, which do nothing for the forum.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 16, 2012, 11:57:31 PM
I think it's humanure come back to :stirthepot:
I think he needs banned again.
That is not me, so you can stop with that. And you want me banned for what? because I agree with the forum, yet examine the issue from all sides. Yet you are the one name calling, which is aganist forum rules and can make you subject to being banned. If Dale wants to ban me for having an opinion then go ahead. All that at would do is make the site look bad and lose credibility. It is a chat room, which means everyone can speak their opinion. We don't all have to agree.
Post by: CedarPants on August 16, 2012, 11:57:41 PM
Post by: Kola16 on August 17, 2012, 12:07:00 AM
I am looking at the issue from both sides
It sounds very one-sided to me.
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 17, 2012, 12:08:07 AM
Your message to other ranchers though is that they should just move. I said they should move IF IT IS THAT BAD AND THEY CANT TAKE THE HEAT. Your trying to take things out of context to win an argument, which you already lost.
In your next conversation with WDFW (since you claim to have contacted them regarding the topics on this forum, right after claiming to not care about peoples opinions on this forum),feel free to make them aware of how you'd handle things per this conversation.
I dont care about the opinions in this forum. I dont own a ranch, so no need to make them aware.
Not that they aren't already aware, considering not only do they monitor this forum but are have members on it. I dont give 2 poops if they monitor this. What does the game department have to do with my opinions. Its like you think you
are going to scare me or something. ooooowwwwww the game department is reading this. Big deal!
I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Not fishing, just an opinion
[/quote]
Post by: GameHunter1959 on August 17, 2012, 12:14:13 AM
Looking at both sides is no problem. Suggesting that other people should move in a situation where you admittedly would take matters into your own hands if it was you makes no sense. I don't think anyone here is faulting you for offering a different perspective
You actually dont make sense. You asked me if I would move or shoot off the pack. My response was that I would try and handle it legally (meaning through the game department). If I was getting nowhere, then I would take MY chances. I suggested that if the RANCHERS could not get anything done, whether that be legally or non legally, to MOVE if they cant accept the consequences associated with wolves. ONLY IF IT WAS THAT BAD! You eed to go back and read the last 2 pages of the topic. Your trying to twist things and take stuff out of context, to win an argument that you lost 3 pages ago. Now your making yourself look bad. Im trying to help you here.
Post by: silverdalesauer on August 17, 2012, 12:16:27 AM
So you wouldn't move, and you'd wipe out the pack. Got it. I said I would do it legally first, but if I felt helpless, I would wipe out the pack and take my chances.[/quote]
Your message to other ranchers though is that they should just move. I said they should move IF IT IS THAT BAD AND THEY CANT TAKE THE HEAT. Your trying to take things out of context to win an argument, which you already lost.
In your next conversation with WDFW (since you claim to have contacted them regarding the topics on this forum, right after claiming to not care about peoples opinions on this forum),feel free to make them aware of how you'd handle things per this conversation.
I dont care about the opinions in this forum. I dont own a ranch, so no need to make them aware.
Not that they aren't already aware, considering not only do they monitor this forum but are have members on it. I dont give 2 poops if they monitor this. What does the game department have to do with my opinions. Its like you think you
are going to scare me or something. ooooowwwwww the game department is reading this. Big deal!
I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Not fishing, just an opinion
Huh?
You keep contradicting yourself here.
Post by: Kola16 on August 17, 2012, 12:27:33 AM
So you wouldn't move, and you'd wipe out the pack. Got it. I said I would do it legally first, but if I felt helpless, I would wipe out the pack and take my chances.
Your message to other ranchers though is that they should just move. I said they should move IF IT IS THAT BAD AND THEY CANT TAKE THE HEAT. Your trying to take things out of context to win an argument, which you already lost.
In your next conversation with WDFW (since you claim to have contacted them regarding the topics on this forum, right after claiming to not care about peoples opinions on this forum),feel free to make them aware of how you'd handle things per this conversation.
I dont care about the opinions in this forum. I dont own a ranch, so no need to make them aware.
Not that they aren't already aware, considering not only do they monitor this forum but are have members on it. I dont give 2 poops if they monitor this. What does the game department have to do with my opinions. Its like you think you
are going to scare me or something. ooooowwwwww the game department is reading this. Big deal!
I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Not fishing, just an opinion
You are making no sense at all.
If you were to wipe out the pack, you would have no chance of getting out of it.
So did you just determine that you won this argument, or was that your mom :dunno: To say I am winning, you are losing, is pretty stupid. You clearly stated that you think that the ranchers should move so I don't no why you are upset about that anyway.
If you don't care about the opinions on this forum, then why are you on it?
And what in the world does giving two poops mean? It sounds like something that I would here from my nephews in elementary school.
Nobody on here is trying to scare you. If they were, we would be asking for your address.
Post by: GrainfedMuley on August 17, 2012, 04:04:47 AM
Wished some of you guys could tune into our local radio, they tell it the way it is, no sugar coating and definitely no liberal spin. :chuckle:
Are they online? Can we stream there broadcast?
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 06:51:05 AM
By Andy Walgamott, on August 16th, 2012
Quote
The latest attack was reported Tuesday night; a determination it was "definitely wolf-caused" was made this morning.
"The marks on the injured calf were punctures and tears on the hindquarters and groin, consistent with wolf," said Luers.
Evidence was reviewed inside and outside the agency, she said.
Luers initially disputed an online report by Capital Press that two calves have died this week, but since then the agency has been contacted by the Stevens County Sheriff's Office that they were en route to the scene of a dead calf with vultures circling nearby possibly indicating another downed animal.
Not all stock deaths and injuries up here this summer have been caused by wolves. A cougar killed one calf in mid-July and an examination of another last week found "no indications of cause of death ... and it was determined that the calf had not been killed by a predator," according to WDFW.
read more here: http://www.nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/08/16/another-confirmed-wolf-calf-attack-in-wedge-has-wdfw-planning-bigger-capture-operation-possibly-killing-more-wolves/ (http://www.nwsportsmanmag.com/2012/08/16/another-confirmed-wolf-calf-attack-in-wedge-has-wdfw-planning-bigger-capture-operation-possibly-killing-more-wolves/)
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 06:55:19 AM
Wished some of you guys could tune into our local radio, they tell it the way it is, no sugar coating and definitely no liberal spin. :chuckle:
Are they online? Can we stream there broadcast?
They have a website but there does not appear to be any news or reports: http://www.kcvl.com (http://www.kcvl.com)
Post by: jackmaster on August 17, 2012, 07:06:03 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 17, 2012, 07:16:46 AM
Post by: CedarPants on August 17, 2012, 07:22:25 AM
Looking at both sides is no problem. Suggesting that other people should move in a situation where you admittedly would take matters into your own hands if it was you makes no sense. I don't think anyone here is faulting you for offering a different perspective
You actually don't make sense. You asked me if I would move or shoot off the pack. My response was that I would try and handle it legally (meaning through the game department). If I was getting nowhere, then I would take MY chances. I suggested that if the RANCHERS could not get anything done, whether that be legally or non legally, to MOVE if they cant accept the consequences associated with wolves. ONLY IF IT WAS THAT BAD! You eed to go back and read the last 2 pages of the topic. Your trying to twist things and take stuff out of context, to win an argument that you lost 3 pages ago. Now your making yourself look bad. Im trying to help you here.
GH - take a step back and look at my posts and you will see that I'm not trying to win an argument, nor am I taking things out of context. I'm not even debating you, I'm trying to make sense of your statements. I get that you are just offering a different perspective, but your posts seem to be contradicting themselves over and over and I'm just trying to make sense of it is all.
A couple pages back you stated you were willing to have a civil discussion on the matter. THAT is what I am trying to do here, but it keeps getting derailed with your apparent need to continually tell us you think we look bad and with your repeated reminders that you disagree with members on this forum.
Disagreement is a good thing - it's how discussions happen and problems are solved. Just remember that just as you have your own opinion, some of us have ours. I certainly don't expect you to accept mine just because I stated it, but you seem to have trouble accepting that people might disagree with you. I'd be happy to talk differing perspectives all day in a civil manner, but your approach seems to be to want to state your opinion then antagonistically reply when someone offers a varying perspective.
So, short story long - grow up and let's discuss this like adults.
For the record, I don't agree with Washington's wolf plan - but I would absolutely disagree with your decision to take matters into your own hands and wipe out the entire pack.
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 17, 2012, 07:26:08 AM
I believe they only estimated perhaps 3 or 4 total and now who knows.
In 2009 I had heard wolves howling in the same area that this is going on and had 5 differant spots one morning at first light. Not sure if they can move that fast but looks like they have a few more than they guessed.
:dunno:
Won't be much chance of getting lost up there for the next few weeks, lot's of people in the woods.
Post by: Killmore on August 17, 2012, 08:26:33 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 08:31:16 AM
Are the ranchers assuming it was wolves doing the killing? Did they witness it? Please post pictures of the encounter. Otherwise it is all hunting tales.
I feel bad for the rancher losing cattle, but doesn't that come with the territory? It is like working in a chemical plant and then blamming your employer for getting lung cancer. It comes with the territory. Or being an NFL player taking hits to the head, and now going back and blamming the NFL for health issues. It comes with the territory. I don't think the ranchers deserve any compensation for wildlife damages. The same ranchers that want compensation, won't let hunters hunt on their land. Or they do, in a limited capacity. Many want NOTHING to do with the game department, until THEY are on the losing end of things. Two examples in the Dayton area...
Why the WSDFW feels like they should pay these people damages is redicuious. Ranchers think because they own the land and put cattle on it, that nothing bad should happen at their expense. Welcome to the cycle of life. It comes with the territory...
Every rancher I know realizes that some losses come with raising cattle. Smart operators who have managed to stay in business do so only by cutting down their losses like any other type of businessman in this new era. The problem here is that wolf lovers have successfully lobbied for an unreasonable wolf plan that's designed to put wolves into unfit areas of Washington. I would venture to say I have studied this wolf issue probably more than most people involved in the agencies. I doubt many if any of them have spent more time studying this wolf issue than I have and I can honestly say wolves need plenty of remote area to successfully exist without getting into trouble and causing problems in inhabited areas. When you study all the wolf problems that have occurred in North America it becomes very apparent that wolves could easily fit into certain remote areas but need to be kept away from settled areas. This whole wolf fiasco would be far less polarizing if the agencies weren't pandering to the wolf lovers desire to put wolves in unfit areas.
The wedge (GMU 105) is just like many other NE Washington GMU's, they appear to have remote wolf habitat but there isn't a large enough remote area, the reality is that most of Washington is settled land that is checkerboarded by private land owners many of which are ranching operations and most of the country is grazed. The problem is that there is not enough remote land in many of these areas for wolf packs to not get in trouble. This has been the basis of my argument from the beginning against the Washington Wolf Plan which calls for 15 confirmed breeding pairs throughout Washington.
Wyoming has been working toward the most reasonable wolf plan, a plan that gives both sides of the wolf issue what they desire and it protects the citizens of Wyoming as a whole. In a nutshell, wolves are protected in YNP and surrounding areas. There is a buffer zone around the core wolf area where wolves will classified as game animals and will be hunted part of the year and protected part of the year. The rest of the state, roughly 3/4 of the state is recognized as settled country unfit for wolves and so wolves are classified as unprotected and may be shot on sight. Wyoming's plan designates 10 breeding pairs for the state.
A simple Revised Washington Wolf Plan
Washington should be pursuing the same type of plan as Wyoming. Designate suitable wolf zones, a buffer zone around the core areas where wolves are hunted part of the year, and classify wolves as unprotected in the balance of Washington which is unsuitable as it is settled country. Wolves could survive withot getting into trouble in the Parks and Wilderness areas, wolves would be hunted in the buffer zones during hunting seasons which would encourage wolves to stay in the core wolf areas, and Washington residents would be able to protect themselves and their property when wolves wander into settled lands.
4 Wolf Zones - 10 Breeding Pairs
- Salmo Wilderness & Buffer Zone (2 BP's)
- North Cascades National Park, Paysayten Wilderness, and Buffer Zones (3 BP's)
- Mount Rainer National Park, Mount St Helens, Olympic National Park, and Buffer Zones (3 BP's)
- Wenaha Wilderness and Buffer Zone (1 BP)
*When any zone exceeds their quota by 2 BP's, management action may be taken even if the other zones have not met quota.
**If big game herd populations drop more than 20% in any zone that zone's quota should be reassessed and action taken to prevent further reductions in big game populations. (It should be recognized that significant losses of big game populations will result in less sutable habitat for wolves and other predators.)
If a plan like this was initiated, the wolf lovers would have protected wolves and plenty of wolf viewing areas in every corner of the state, wolves would be encouraged to stay in remote areas, ranchers like the McIrvins could protect their livestock. WDFW who are supposed to be cash strapped would not be driving to McIrvins ranch on a regular basis wasting money. Some of this wasted money could be used to hire several more trappers to document several more of these packs that we all know exist. The plan would be a win/win/win.
WDFW needs to move in this direction with the Washington Wolf Plan, they have the ability to change the plan if needed. If you ask the McIrvin's or many other local residents, I bet they will tell you that something needs done sooner than later.
Post by: RG on August 17, 2012, 09:29:31 AM
In the 80's I worked for a ranch and guided elk and deer hunters in the Gallatin in Montana. The Fish Wildlife and Parks dept decided to do an elk study in the area and hired a contract biologist to gather data. The guy contacted each hunting guide and outfitter in the area as well as the residents who had been born and raised right there, and asked all of us what we thought, what we were observing, and what changes in management made the most sense. He incorporated that information into his final report. The guy was an all star in our opinion because he asked the people who really know what is going on for their opinion and was willing to use it for his recommendations. In other words, he was honest and unbiased. WDFW should take the same approach. There's a need for honesty and transparency which will lead to some trust. There is absolutely no room for politics here when it flies in the face of science and common sense. The citizens of our state deserve better than what they are getting with this plan. Once again, they need to go visit Wyoming and listen to the well thought out words of wisdom that went into their plan.
Post by: denali on August 17, 2012, 09:52:56 AM
also my understanding was WDFW was to spend time confirming wolves in the Blues this summer instead it looks like "all hands on deck" in stevens co.
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 10:39:17 AM
Well if I am behind then so is everyone else, because I am reading the same info everyone else in the forum is. You are just trying to pile on, because I said the ranchers should move if they are that unhappy etc. That does not phase me. The truth is, wolves are here to stay. The wolves have all the power. They are not going anywhere, so learn to deal with it. And if a rancher or anyone else harms one, then I hope it is worth the prison time. Go ahead forum and pile on, because I really don't care about a bunch of opinions from people I don't know in a chat room. And for all the people CLAIMING there are wolf attacks happening over and over again. I have yet to see any PROOF!! It is all a bunch of wildlife diehards, that spend their off season in the forum telling tales. Show me a video something. Trail cam pics of wolves means nothing. I want to see a ranch wolves on it attacking livestock before I beleive anything. I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts. Not saying BEARPAW is WRONG, just passing on what the game department told me to be aware of. In other words....it is nothing more then internet chatter, tales, stories, etc.
Quote
The wolves have all the power.
Quote
I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts.
Thanks for your entertaining comments.
This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.
I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.
Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.
I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.
Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.
I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.
:ban:
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 10:46:27 AM
Thanks Bearpaw , well thought out, workable, revised plan
also my understanding was WDFW was to spend time confirming wolves in the Blues this summer instead it looks like "all hands on deck" in stevens co.
denali, WDFW should be working in the blues as well as several other areas in Washington. This state needs at a minimum a dozen trappers confirming wolves so that we can move forward with wolf management. According to public sightings and trail cam photos, there are enough wolves in Region 1 to delist the whole state, but they will never be confirmed quickly with only 2 trappers for the whole state.
Post by: CedarPants on August 17, 2012, 10:48:57 AM
I was attempting to try to get GH to be civil and talk, but in the back of my mind the last part of my statement below is what was going on.
I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Jump on the forum, tell everyone you have no problem shooting a pack of wolves, get everyone to agree with you, then report back to whatever organization they are with.
Common tactic, glad to see it didn't pan out for them here.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 17, 2012, 10:49:31 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 17, 2012, 10:53:51 AM
Dang it ...you just took away our entertainment :bash: But I am still laughing :chuckle: :chuckle: :yeah:Well if I am behind then so is everyone else, because I am reading the same info everyone else in the forum is. You are just trying to pile on, because I said the ranchers should move if they are that unhappy etc. That does not phase me. The truth is, wolves are here to stay. The wolves have all the power. They are not going anywhere, so learn to deal with it. And if a rancher or anyone else harms one, then I hope it is worth the prison time. Go ahead forum and pile on, because I really don't care about a bunch of opinions from people I don't know in a chat room. And for all the people CLAIMING there are wolf attacks happening over and over again. I have yet to see any PROOF!! It is all a bunch of wildlife diehards, that spend their off season in the forum telling tales. Show me a video something. Trail cam pics of wolves means nothing. I want to see a ranch wolves on it attacking livestock before I beleive anything. I called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts. Not saying BEARPAW is WRONG, just passing on what the game department told me to be aware of. In other words....it is nothing more then internet chatter, tales, stories, etc.QuoteThe wolves have all the power.QuoteI called the game department regarding some the the claims on here. I was told to not feed in to BEARPAW, because he tends to blow things out of context and makes assumptions without knowing the facts.
Thanks for your entertaining comments.
This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.
I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.
Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.
I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.
Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.
I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.
:ban:
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 11:07:08 AM
Agreed Dale.
I was attempting to try to get GH to be civil and talk, but in the back of my mind the last part of my statement below is what was going on.I feel you are trying to make a misplaced point, or you are fishing. Won't find many bites here
Jump on the forum, tell everyone you have no problem shooting a pack of wolves, get everyone to agree with you, then report back to whatever organization they are with.
Common tactic, glad to see it didn't pan out for them here.
Cedarpants I think you are exactly correct. These groups like to bait people who are upset over impacts to big game herds, livestock, or pets into making comments they can try to use to support their anti-hunting goals or to bolster their membership and donations by exciting their anti-hunting followers.
Post by: Elkslayer on August 17, 2012, 11:37:58 AM
Thanks for your entertaining comments.
This is the United States. If the people determine that wolves cannot fit, they will be removed. I think this has been proven in the distant past as well as the recent past in numerous locations. Your comment that "wolves have all the power" simply illustrates your mentality.
I would beleive that a few pro-wolf people in WDFW are uncomfortable that so many people question the faulty wolf plan with so many facts and photos that prove the pro-wolf bias and untruthfulness of the flawed wolf plan. I also imagine that a few people in WDFW might be quietly cheering us on as well, who knows. But as professionals I doubt WDFW managers who know me would actually say exactly what you claim they publicly said to someone they do not know over the phone. In spite of differences in opinion with some of the managers, I have great respect for most of them and their ability to act professionally regardless of their personal feelings. I simply do not beleive your claim, I think our WDFW is more professional than that.
Therefore I am going to cut the chase and get right to the point.
I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.
Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.
I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.
:ban:
:tup:
Post by: Kola16 on August 17, 2012, 12:04:36 PM
Post by: buckfvr on August 17, 2012, 12:11:52 PM
Post by: RG on August 17, 2012, 12:12:32 PM
I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site."
Good job Bearpaw!
Post by: Kowsrule30 on August 17, 2012, 12:44:35 PM
I think you are full of *call it whatever you like*. I just appoved your membership a day or two ago. I just now reviewed your posts (every comment in support of wolves) which anyone can do by clicking on your username and looking at your profile. It appears you are nothing more than a wolf lover who joined to try and distract the conversation from the facts with wolf-lover tactics.
Your username appears to be misleading and untruthful, it is my firm belief you are only here to distract the conversation from the info which has been presented and which is now being reported as an official wolf kill in the media.
I am banning you for what appears to be misrepresentation as a hunter and untruthfulness. If you care to contact me and prove you are a hunter who wants to participate on the forum or who in the WDFW actually made the statements you claim they made, then I will gladly discontinue your permanent vacation from this site.
:ban:
[/quote]
:tup: LOL!!!! I told him good luck!!!! HAHA..... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 01:03:15 PM
(Just listened to another radio interview, sorry I didn't get exact quotes, but this is close)
Quote
McIrvin explains that they transport their cattle to southern WA and OR during the winter and early spring for pasture then in the summer they bring them back home. It's while his cattle are at home that they are attacked by wolves. Then when his cattle are shipped south the wolves are in his neighbors cattle pen in the winter.
McIrvin explained that they aren't asking WDFW for help, they could take care of the problem themselves, they just want to be able to protect their cattle when wolves attack, he doesn't even blame the wolves, he says they are just doing what wolves do. But their hands are tied, they don't want to become felons and be fined $10,000 to $50,000 thousand and face prison time for protecting their livestock.
McIrvin said it won't help ranchers in the Okanaogan, but the eastern 1/3 of WA is federally delisted and WDFW could allow them to remove the pack that is killing cattle in the wedge. He does think that the whole pack will have to be removed to stop the killing.
I agree with McIrvin and have read that once wolves teach the whole pack to kill livestock, the only way to stop it is to take out the whole pack. In fact, in Idaho they want them all killed so there are no individual wolves to move to another pack and teach that new pack to kill cattle.
There is strong evidence (trail cam photos) suggesting that another pack exists in GMU 105 to the east of this pack, it would be a shame for that pack to be taught how to kill cattle too.
Now is the time to take action to protect the other wolves in the area and to protect local ranchers and landowners.
Post by: bearpaw on August 17, 2012, 01:18:05 PM
Quote
McIrvin said that there were two calves attacked the last few days. One calf was badly bitten but alive, the other calf was bitten badly and killed but not even eaten.
I think this is a likely indication that these wolves are teaching the other pack members how to kill cattle even while they are not hungry. This is often referred to as "sport killing" and has commonly been documented when wolves attack elk herds in ID/MT. This instinctive wolf practice is commonly believed to be one of the reasons wolves have such a high impact on game herds.
Post by: Atroxus on August 17, 2012, 03:52:14 PM
Are the ranchers assuming it was wolves doing the killing? Did they witness it? Please post pictures of the encounter. Otherwise it is all hunting tales.
I feel bad for the rancher losing cattle, but doesn't that come with the territory? It is like working in a chemical plant and then blamming your employer for getting lung cancer. It comes with the territory. Or being an NFL player taking hits to the head, and now going back and blamming the NFL for health issues. It comes with the territory. I don't think the ranchers deserve any compensation for wildlife damages. The same ranchers that want compensation, won't let hunters hunt on their land. Or they do, in a limited capacity. Many want NOTHING to do with the game department, until THEY are on the losing end of things. Two examples in the Dayton area...
Why the WSDFW feels like they should pay these people damages is redicuious. Ranchers think because they own the land and put cattle on it, that nothing bad should happen at their expense. Welcome to the cycle of life. It comes with the territory...
Every rancher I know realizes that some losses come with raising cattle. Smart operators who have managed to stay in business do so only by cutting down their losses like any other type of businessman in this new era. The problem here is that wolf lovers have successfully lobbied for an unreasonable wolf plan that's designed to put wolves into unfit areas of Washington. I would venture to say I have studied this wolf issue probably more than most people involved in the agencies. I doubt many if any of them have spent more time studying this wolf issue than I have and I can honestly say wolves need plenty of remote area to successfully exist without getting into trouble and causing problems in inhabited areas. When you study all the wolf problems that have occurred in North America it becomes very apparent that wolves could easily fit into certain remote areas but need to be kept away from settled areas. This whole wolf fiasco would be far less polarizing if the agencies weren't pandering to the wolf lovers desire to put wolves in unfit areas.
The wedge (GMU 105) is just like many other NE Washington GMU's, they appear to have remote wolf habitat but there isn't a large enough remote area, the reality is that most of Washington is settled land that is checkerboarded by private land owners many of which are ranching operations and most of the country is grazed. The problem is that there is not enough remote land in many of these areas for wolf packs to not get in trouble. This has been the basis of my argument from the beginning against the Washington Wolf Plan which calls for 15 confirmed breeding pairs throughout Washington.
Wyoming has been working toward the most reasonable wolf plan, a plan that gives both sides of the wolf issue what they desire and it protects the citizens of Wyoming as a whole. In a nutshell, wolves are protected in YNP and surrounding areas. There is a buffer zone around the core wolf area where wolves will classified as game animals and will be hunted part of the year and protected part of the year. The rest of the state, roughly 3/4 of the state is recognized as settled country unfit for wolves and so wolves are classified as unprotected and may be shot on sight. Wyoming's plan designates 10 breeding pairs for the state.
A simple Revised Washington Wolf Plan
Washington should be pursuing the same type of plan as Wyoming. Designate suitable wolf zones, a buffer zone around the core areas where wolves are hunted part of the year, and classify wolves as unprotected in the balance of Washington which is unsuitable as it is settled country. Wolves could survive withot getting into trouble in the Parks and Wilderness areas, wolves would be hunted in the buffer zones during hunting seasons which would encourage wolves to stay in the core wolf areas, and Washington residents would be able to protect themselves and their property when wolves wander into settled lands.
4 Wolf Zones - 10 Breeding Pairs
- Salmo Wilderness & Buffer Zone (2 BP's)
- North Cascades National Park, Paysayten Wilderness, and Buffer Zones (3 BP's)
- Mount Rainer National Park, Mount St Helens, Olympic National Park, and Buffer Zones (3 BP's)
- Wenaha Wilderness and Buffer Zone (1 BP)
*When any zone exceeds their quota by 2 BP's, management action may be taken even if the other zones have not met quota.
**If big game herd populations drop more than 20% in any zone that zone's quota should be reassessed and action taken to prevent further reductions in big game populations. (It should be recognized that significant losses of big game populations will result in less sutable habitat for wolves and other predators.)
If a plan like this was initiated, the wolf lovers would have protected wolves and plenty of wolf viewing areas in every corner of the state, wolves would be encouraged to stay in remote areas, ranchers like the McIrvins could protect their livestock. WDFW who are supposed to be cash strapped would not be driving to McIrvins ranch on a regular basis wasting money. Some of this wasted money could be used to hire several more trappers to document several more of these packs that we all know exist. The plan would be a win/win/win.
WDFW needs to move in this direction with the Washington Wolf Plan, they have the ability to change the plan if needed. If you ask the McIrvin's or many other local residents, I bet they will tell you that something needs done sooner than later.
Now that's a wolf plan I could get behind...lots of common sense....too bad that when it comes to politicians "common sense" is in short supply.
Post by: seth30 on August 17, 2012, 04:01:32 PM
Post by: denali on August 18, 2012, 10:44:14 PM
Officials plan to cull up to 3 more wolves
Washington Fish and Wildlife officials say they plan to kill more wolves in northern Stevens County to curb attacks on cattle.
After confirming that wolves killed one calf this week and injured another, the agency intends to kill up to three members of the Wedge Pack, department spokeswoman Madonna Luers said Friday.
“Our officers will try to trap and put a radio collar on at least one more wolf in the pack for monitoring,” she said. “Then the intent is to lethally remove up to three more wolves to disrupt the pack and reduce its need to feed so many mouths.”
The Wedge Pack roams the Colville National Forest area the Diamond M Ranch leases for grazing between the Columbia and Kettle rivers.
A female nonbreeding wolf in the pack was killed by department officers on Aug. 7 after wolves had killed a calf and injured two others. The kill was the first by the agency under its 2011 wolf management plan. Gray wolves are protected by state endangered species laws
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/aug/18/in-brief-officials-plan-to-cull-up-to-3-more/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/aug/18/in-brief-officials-plan-to-cull-up-to-3-more/)
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2012, 10:52:02 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 18, 2012, 10:53:10 PM
Post by: Atroxus on August 18, 2012, 11:23:16 PM
The state just can't afford to continually go around killing problem wolves. Let the citizens do it! This is ridiculous. The ranchers should be able (and required) to take care of the problem themselves. So the state takes out two or three wolves now. Next year the problem will be back and the state will have to spend more money doing what they just did the year before. >:(
:yeah: If predators need killing let hunters do it. If the farmers don't consider it enough of a problem to let hunters on their property to deal with the issue, then give them non-transferable tags to deal with it themselves.
Post by: bearpaw on August 18, 2012, 11:23:59 PM
ID/MT have learned that once a pack starts killing cattle, you may have to remove the entire pack. Problem is WDFW is trying to appease the wolf lovers and the result could be bad for both packs.
Post by: CedarPants on August 18, 2012, 11:41:17 PM
The state just can't afford to continually go around killing problem wolves. Let the citizens do it! This is ridiculous. The ranchers should be able (and required) to take care of the problem themselves. So the state takes out two or three wolves now. Next year the problem will be back and the state will have to spend more money doing what they just did the year before.
Agreed.
The state can't even afford to go around documenting the wolves they know are already here, let alone killing the ones that have become a problem. My :twocents: - how many man hours and resources are they burning up in the Wedge, on a pack they will likely remove, - while brushing off countless reports of numerous other packs because they don't have the money to look into it.
Post by: bearpaw on August 18, 2012, 11:44:02 PM
The state just can't afford to continually go around killing problem wolves. Let the citizens do it! This is ridiculous. The ranchers should be able (and required) to take care of the problem themselves. So the state takes out two or three wolves now. Next year the problem will be back and the state will have to spend more money doing what they just did the year before.
Agreed.
The state can't even afford to go around documenting the wolves they know are already here, let alone killing the ones that have become a problem. My :twocents: - how many man hours and resources are they burning up in the Wedge, on a pack they will likely remove, - while brushing off countless reports of numerous other packs because they don't have the money to look into it.
exactly, good post :tup:
Post by: Johnb317 on August 19, 2012, 06:40:17 AM
Post by: Killmore on August 19, 2012, 08:22:50 AM
Post by: Killmore on August 19, 2012, 08:29:14 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 19, 2012, 09:42:02 AM
And I will venture to say that the problem won't get to much worse in the wedge pack because the good ole boys will take the problems into there own hands....
It's unfortunate people are forced to this extreme. But this is exactly what happened in ID/MT, people put up with wolves for about 10 years, now they simply act.
Perspective
It may be hard for a wolf lover living in a concrete jungle to understand this mentality so let me put it in terms they might understand. You have been hearing for years about people being targetted by thiefs and vandals in other cities but it has never been a problem where you live. Better never be a problem either because it's just not right.
What if you go outside in the morning to go to work and someone has vandalized your car to the tune of $1000 in damages. That would make you pretty upset, but you would call the cops and hope they can prevent it from happening again. Cops watch your place for a day or two but eventually they have to quit watching your place.
After another day or two you go outside to go to work and another vehicle has been vandalized to the tune of $1000. You call the cops, they reassure you that it won't happen again if you park in a different spot, leave outside lights on, and put flags up around your property boundary.
Finally you get the 1st car back from the bodyshop and bring it home. Next morning it is vandalized to the tune of $1000 again. The cops and insurance tell you that you didn't do enough to deter the vandals, that they are not certain who it is, but maybe you caused the problem by parking your car in the wrong location or did something else wrong and it baited in the vandals, so you don't get reimbursement for any of the damages. You are already out $3000 and the next morning you find your lawnmower has been stolen. This time you have had it, you don't even bother calling the cops. You set up all night with a spotlight and your grandads shotgun that you happen to have inherited.
About 2am you hear vandals, you step outside to protect your property and the guy starts to pull a gun, so you shoot, you probably meant to scare him off but you accidentally hit him and the guy dies. You get sued by his family and the legal systen sentences you to jail because the guy was pulling a knife and not a gun.
That is about the situation ranchers and hunters are in with wolves. Is it any wonder that the "joking" term "SSS" has cropped up? The problem is that wolves will eventually cause some rancher to do exactly what the homeowner did to the vandal. Because our laws on wolves are simply wrong, that rancher will suffer the consequences of wolves one way or another, just as the homeowner did in the scenario with the vandals.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 19, 2012, 10:07:39 AM
Corrected it Dale, sorry !!
Post by: KFhunter on August 19, 2012, 10:14:20 AM
Quote
Perspective
Had to chuckle at your analogy story :chuckle:
Post by: NWBREW on August 19, 2012, 10:22:15 AM
I will be checking my cams in 2 weeks....it will be interesting to see what I have on it. I also hunt elk over in the wedge and I honestly believe there are at LEAST 2 wolf packs there.
Take one wolf out and 3 more will take it's place. What good is it going to do for the WDFW to take out one or two wolves when they can have 6-10 pups to fill the void. Don't get me wrong....at least they are doing something but they should give the ranchers tags and let them handle the problem.....they have a vested interest.
Post by: sebek556 on August 19, 2012, 10:25:43 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 19, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
And I will venture to say that the problem won't get to much worse in the wedge pack because the good ole boys will take the problems into there own hands....
It's unfortunate people are forced to this extreme. But this is exactly what happened in ID/MT, people put up with wolves for about 10 years, now they simply act.
Perspective
It may be hard for a wolf lover living in a concrete jungle to understand this mentality so let me put it in terms they might understand. You have been hearing for years about people being targetted by thiefs and vandals in other cities but it has never been a problem where you live. Better never be a problem either because it's just not right.
What if you go outside in the morning to go to work and someone has vandalized your car to the tune of $1000 in damages. That would make you pretty upset, but you would call the cops and hope they can prevent it from happening again. Cops watch your place for a day or two but eventually they have to quit watching your place.
After another day or two you go outside to go to work and another vehicle has been vandalized to the tune of $1000. You call the cops, they reassure you that it won't happen again if you park in a different spot, leave outside lights on, and put flags up around your property boundary.
Finally you get the 1st car back from the bodyshop and bring it home. Next morning it is vandalized to the tune of $1000 again. The cops and insurance tell you that you didn't do enough to deter the vandals, that they are not certain who it is, but maybe you caused the problem by parking your car in the wrong location or did something else wrong and it baited in the vandals, so you don't get reimbursement for any of the damages. You are already out $3000 and the next morning you find your lawnmower has been stolen. This time you have had it, you don't even bother calling the cops. You set up all night with a spotlight and your grandads shotgun that you happen to have inherited.
About 2am you hear vandals, you step outside to protect your property and the guy starts to pull a gun, so you shoot, you probably meant to scare him off but you accidentally hit him and the guy dies. You get sued by his family and the legal systen sentences you to jail because the guy was pulling a knife and not a gun.
That is about the situation ranchers and hunters are in with wolves. Is it any wonder that the "joking" term "SSS" has cropped up? The problem is that wolves will eventually cause some rancher to do exactly what the homeowner did to the vandal. Because our laws on wolves are simply wrong, that rancher will suffer the consequences of wolves one way or another, just as the homeowner did in the scenario with the vandals.
Just got back from north and all I can observe is an over abundance of Rosewood colored ford's. Friday nite there was a string of 7 headed south around 4 P.M. just north of Barney's all had exmpt tags on them. Lots of gov rigs going past the place also Saturday.
Post by: RG on August 19, 2012, 04:05:45 PM
Post by: silverdalesauer on August 19, 2012, 07:11:23 PM
I believe he was a "wolf in sheep's clothing" :chuckle:
Post by: Killmore on August 19, 2012, 07:44:38 PM
Post by: Atroxus on August 19, 2012, 08:13:17 PM
The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.
Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. :twocents:
Post by: Killmore on August 20, 2012, 08:12:56 AM
Post by: buckfvr on August 20, 2012, 08:39:24 AM
Post by: Northway on August 20, 2012, 10:50:01 AM
The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.
Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. :twocents:
I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.
Post by: Atroxus on August 20, 2012, 11:09:26 AM
The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.
Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. :twocents:
I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.
Personally I think there are plenty of hunters capable of hunting wolves. I am not one of them, so I wouldn't put in for a tag even if I could. But I think it is unrealistic to say that only "specialized hunters" are capable of hunting/killing wolves.
Post by: dreamingbig on August 20, 2012, 11:11:53 AM
When the economy dipped and went into recession, sportsmen have been asked to pay more and more to "manage" wildlife and we have been rewarded with a competitor at the top of the food chain that hasn't paid a dime and has been responsible for decreased opportunity.
I am a firm believer that decreased or no hunting opportunity was the end goal of the wolf reintroduction but we as a group need to keep fighting this ridiculous decision.
Thanks Dale and all others who keep posting on here for keeping up the fight.
Post by: Northway on August 20, 2012, 12:05:48 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2012/aug/20/wolf-kill-target-raised-4-ne-washington/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2012/aug/20/wolf-kill-target-raised-4-ne-washington/)
"ENDANGERED SPECIES — After discussions with ranchers who've had cattle injured and killed by wolves in the past four weeks, Washington Fish and Wildlife Department officials have raised to four the number of wolves that might be killed to stop the depredation.
The guideline had been set at three last week after a Diamond M Ranch calf was injured and another calf was killed by the Wedge Pack on a Colville National Forest grazing lease in northern Stevens County near Laurier."
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 20, 2012, 02:40:44 PM
The game department should just give the ranchers with the problems x amount of tags then when they use them then evaluate the situation. The ranches and employees are the only ones that can do the most good because they are there everyday. I think the department has a time bomb on there hands and it's starting to go off and they know it.
Only problem I see with that is ranchers using those tags to turn a profit. I don't doubt there are people who would pay farmers a large chunk of money for a wolf tag. I think in these cases WDFW should allow x number of tags, but that the rancher should be given two options. Either WDFW distributes the tags to eligible hunters and the farmer allows those hunters access to fill those tags for free, or the farmer gets the tags but cannot sell them and must kill the wolves themselves with the same rules in regards to group hunting that any other hunter in the state has to follow. If handled properly it could help address rancher concerns, help generate revenue for WDFW instead of just costing them money, and could open hunting opportunities for licensed hunters. :twocents:
I think if that type of situation were ever an option, only folks who specialize in wolf hunting should be eligible to use those tags. For example: If it were an out of season predator control situation, and a whole pack was slated for removal, you would want someone who knew exactly what they were doing. It could get messy for any number of reasons otherwise. The only problem with that is they would probably want compensation, especially if the wolves were to be taken during the time of year when the pelts have little value. That could still end up being cheaper than having additional agents on the WDFW payroll, though.
Everyone should be eligible. Every gosh darn person in a problem area should be hunting these critters. There should be hired guns and trappers after a specific pack kills a targeted number of livestock. The farmers should have free range to kill as many as they can; their neighbors, too.
When they were extinguished back in the 50's, it'd taken decades of poison, trapping, shooting, anything we could do to get rid of them. It took decades. Now, without killing traps or poison, it'll be impossible to get rid of them, never mind get them to a manageable level. Everyone should be in on killing them once it's decided they should be killed.
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 20, 2012, 07:05:40 PM
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 20, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.
Ya know, the agency's will blame each other, WTF ?, we didn't know anything about this.
Post by: seth30 on August 20, 2012, 07:53:52 PM
I wonder when the elk tags and deer tags stop selling due to lack of game, will our wonderful state reps increase the price of the discover pass, or maybe they will come up with another great idea :bash:The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.
Ya know, the agency's will blame each other, WTF ?, we didn't know anything about this.
Post by: Northway on August 20, 2012, 07:56:31 PM
When they were extinguished back in the 50's, it'd taken decades of poison, trapping, shooting, anything we could do to get rid of them. It took decades. Now, without killing traps or poison, it'll be impossible to get rid of them, never mind get them to a manageable level. Everyone should be in on killing them once it's decided they should be killed." - Pianoman
If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.
Post by: CedarPants on August 20, 2012, 08:00:33 PM
I wonder when the elk tags and deer tags stop selling due to lack of game, will our wonderful state reps increase the price of the discover pass, or maybe they will come up with another great idea :bash:The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.
Ya know, the agency's will blame each other, WTF ?, we didn't know anything about this.
Cow and doe tags are almost nonexistent this year up there compared to what they've given out historically.
Keep in mind, I do think that is a good thing. The deer and elk herds could use a boost up there.
I just never thought part of the equation would be to further cut into our already limited opportunity so another species could be offered free unlimited over the counter tags with a year round season.
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 20, 2012, 08:03:57 PM
I wonder when the elk tags and deer tags stop selling due to lack of game, will our wonderful state reps increase the price of the discover pass, or maybe they will come up with another great idea :bash:The sad part about this whole story is all the government agency's were aware of these animals since the late 90's. But due to the close proximity to Canada they were never classified as a resident pack. These were thought of as a transient pack because the ranged back and forth across the line. Now it seems they are the largest trouble that we have and now they are an issue.
The border to these ranchers is in some places the width of a county road to nothing more than a barbwire fence.
My own belief is that the USFWS and the WDFG should be held personally and morally responsible for all the losses sustained by the cattle ranchers for lack of process. To make any amends to the sportsman of this state, I'd get a better return on Lotto ticket's.
Ya know, the agency's will blame each other, WTF ?, we didn't know anything about this.
Not to push this thread sideways if you review the rules they have already made drastic changes to allow for the wolves.
This used to be an any elk area due to the fact they didn't want to encourage the introduction of elk west of the Columbia river in the published trend reports from the WDFG.
The total harvest for all 3 weapons combined was always a small harvest the largest I saw was under 30 animals.
This fall they have given out 10 modern rifle anterless tags, also 10 Muzzle tags and 10 Master tags. The rest is any bull which is a low percentage run.
After the increase in Wolves the last years harvest was under 30 % less than the year before, wonder what caused that?
Post by: Kola16 on August 20, 2012, 08:13:06 PM
Not to push this thread sideways if you review the rules they have already made drastic changes to allow for the wolves.
This used to be an any elk area due to the fact they didn't want to encourage the introduction of elk west of the Columbia river in the published trend reports from the WDFG.
The total harvest for all 3 weapons combined was always a small harvest the largest I saw was under 30 animals.
This fall they have given out 10 modern rifle anterless tags, also 10 Muzzle tags and 10 Master tags. The rest is any bull which is a low percentage run.
After the increase in Wolves the last years harvest was under 30 % less than the year before, wonder what caused that?
I have always hoped that the elk in the NE corner would eventually become plentiful. Stupid wolves :bash:
Post by: sebek556 on August 20, 2012, 08:19:27 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 20, 2012, 08:21:26 PM
hello troll or should I say northway... move along nothing to see here :tup:or Humanure :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 20, 2012, 08:26:03 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 20, 2012, 08:26:52 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 20, 2012, 08:28:35 PM
"Everyone should be eligible. Every gosh darn person in a problem area should be hunting these critters. There should be hired guns and trappers after a specific pack kills a targeted number of livestock. The farmers should have free range to kill as many as they can; their neighbors, too.
When they were extinguished back in the 50's, it'd taken decades of poison, trapping, shooting, anything we could do to get rid of them. It took decades. Now, without killing traps or poison, it'll be impossible to get rid of them, never mind get them to a manageable level. Everyone should be in on killing them once it's decided they should be killed." - Pianoman
If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.
GET OUT of seattle and see what reality REALLY IS
Post by: seth30 on August 20, 2012, 08:32:18 PM
Post by: seth30 on August 20, 2012, 08:37:59 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 20, 2012, 08:58:25 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 20, 2012, 09:09:33 PM
Ok so here's the money shot!!!
Sorry my bad!!
[/quote SHAME ON YOU ....You animal killer :beatdeadhorse: :nono: :peep: :lol4:
Post by: RG on August 20, 2012, 10:37:39 PM
Post by: Northway on August 20, 2012, 10:44:08 PM
Here we go again...
Actually, you're right. My posts obviously derailed the thread.
Post by: RG on August 21, 2012, 06:38:58 AM
Post by: Atroxus on August 21, 2012, 07:48:37 AM
hello troll or should I say northway... move along nothing to see here :tup:
Huh? :dunno: What did he say that is trolling?
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 21, 2012, 07:57:03 AM
If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.
Actually, they're not capable and they've shown it. They don't hire near the number of trappers they need now just to tag/collar wolves and monitor new packs because their budget is way too small to do this AND pay the losses to ranchers. It sounds to me like 1. You have little experience in the wild, and 2. You have no experience with wolves and their effect on livestock and wild ungulates.
I may be wrong, but it sure sounds to me like you're a city dweller full of romantic notions about these beautiful, howling doggies. They are killing machines and once they find easy food, they teach each other about it, too. They're hard to hunt and without poison, incredibly hard to control. Just ask the wildlife departments of ID, MT, and WY. They'll all tell you.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of poisoning. I AM saying that the WDFW is way over their heads on controlling these animals on their own and they know it. They just can't possibly publicly admit it.
Post by: Miles on August 21, 2012, 07:58:20 AM
hello troll or should I say northway... move along nothing to see here :tup:
Huh? :dunno: What did he say that is trolling?
It's not so much of what he said....
You can just smell them through the computer screen once you've been around a while. :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on August 21, 2012, 09:42:18 AM
Post by: Northway on August 21, 2012, 11:12:15 AM
If we're just talking about a specific pack that is depredating in a given area and that pack is slated for removal, what's the point of giving a permit out to everyone in the county? WDFW/WS agents are perfectly capable of taking out an entire wolf pack on their own. It's been done plenty of times in Idaho, Montana, or Wyoming. Either a wolf/wolves are already collared and the pack is easier to track, or they go in and collar a judas wolf to lead them back to the rest of the pack.
Actually, they're not capable and they've shown it. They don't hire near the number of trappers they need now just to tag/collar wolves and monitor new packs because their budget is way too small to do this AND pay the losses to ranchers. It sounds to me like 1. You have little experience in the wild, and 2. You have no experience with wolves and their effect on livestock and wild ungulates.
I may be wrong, but it sure sounds to me like you're a city dweller full of romantic notions about these beautiful, howling doggies. They are killing machines and once they find easy food, they teach each other about it, too. They're hard to hunt and without poison, incredibly hard to control. Just ask the wildlife departments of ID, MT, and WY. They'll all tell you.
I'm not saying I'm in favor of poisoning. I AM saying that the WDFW is way over their heads on controlling these animals on their own and they know it. They just can't possibly publicly admit it.
I can't say that I have romantic notions about any animal. I am weird about moose though - I have an unreasonable fear of them.
It's true, I live in the heart of the concrete jungle. However, most of my life has been spent outside of the city, and I've had many experiences throughout my life that tie me into these kinds of issues in more than just a superficial way - i.e. the "city dweller" who has never left town. I can't say I'm living here right now for my health.
I respect your knowledge of the wild, but I don't think it's fair to assume that all people who spend time in the backcountry are going to draw the same conclusions on all issues relating to wildlife. I'm not here to change your mind or trash other viewpoints, I'm here because I enjoy different perspectives and the dialogue that goes with them. I'm specifically interested in folks' ideas for wolf management in between the two extremes, i.e. NO wolf management vs. SSS, kill them all immediately.
We're in agreement that the WDFW does not currently have the resources it needs to effectively implement a wolf management plan. My comments were meant to be more limited to their ability to implement a control action on the Wedge Pack specifically, or another collared, identified pack in a known area, not their ability to handle an overall wolf management plan. What I don't know, and what maybe someone can answer for me, is whether WDFW ever contracts with Wildlife Services for control actions. I'm pretty sure IDFG does in Idaho. I don't know whether that would come out of the Wildlife Services budget, or whether it's billed to the respective game department. Maybe the nature of their association is different in WA and only the two hired WDFW trappers are used, ever.
I'm definitely against poisoning. I think there is just too much by-catch. Some fellow planted poison way up in the Bob Marshall Wilderness recently, got a handful of wolves, six bald eagles, and who knows what else. That could probably be considered the norm when it comes to poisoning. I'm hoping the liberal hunting/trapping seasons that will be in effect over in Idaho will prove that those methods can be effective in managing wolf populations.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 21, 2012, 11:18:54 AM
Post by: Special T on August 21, 2012, 12:19:04 PM
ID has used aerial gunning but it was not very effective because of the steep terrain. ID allows the use of foothold traps, WA does not.
2 of the major tools to control wolves are not an option, in this state. This state seems to have a love affair with all matter of predators, from sealions, wolves, Mergansers, courgars, bears, and even the lowly coyote.
Since the restriction of no hound hunting for bear or cougar has been in place, hunting cougars has NOT been able to achieve harvest goals. YET the WDFW has chosen to try and make it HARDER to harvest them. We got them to take away their BS weapons restrictions, and STILL we cannot harvest their numbers which are overly conservative... Last year some Numb Nut that works at the WDFW tired to put some idiotic restrictions on night hunting coyotes, to only use Bird shot, or 22 cal rifles! :bash: Their own attempt to change policy made NO sense! :bash:
Wolves are not an Isolated issue. the Duff's Love affair with ALL predators and their LACK of management and understanding of the issues is the major cause for concern. We have some fellow hunters and anglers in the WDFW but they are ineffective, silenced, and/or out numbered. We need to take the WDFW kicking and screaming in the right direction, because they have proven through their ACTIONS that they are NOT a partner in managing our resources. :twocents:
Post by: Kola16 on August 21, 2012, 12:24:47 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 21, 2012, 12:44:03 PM
Northway, thankyou for you responce. Unfortunately liberal hunting and trapping won't help us here in this state. A study was done outside the Denali NP in AK and it found that only 3-6% of the population of wolves would be harvested through the normal course of hunting. Harvest goals of 50-70% of the existing population was necessary to keep a STABLE population of wolves(zero gain). In AK they had liberal hunting, trapping and aerial gunning. this study was in responce to AK loosing its aerial hunting ability. :twocents:Very good special T.. :tup:
ID has used aerial gunning but it was not very effective because of the steep terrain. ID allows the use of foothold traps, WA does not.
2 of the major tools to control wolves are not an option, in this state. This state seems to have a love affair with all matter of predators, from sealions, wolves, Mergansers, courgars, bears, and even the lowly coyote.
Since the restriction of no hound hunting for bear or cougar has been in place, hunting cougars has NOT been able to achieve harvest goals. YET the WDFW has chosen to try and make it HARDER to harvest them. We got them to take away their BS weapons restrictions, and STILL we cannot harvest their numbers which are overly conservative... Last year some Numb Nut that works at the WDFW tired to put some idiotic restrictions on night hunting coyotes, to only use Bird shot, or 22 cal rifles! :bash: Their own attempt to change policy made NO sense! :bash:
Wolves are not an Isolated issue. the Duff's Love affair with ALL predators and their LACK of management and understanding of the issues is the major cause for concern. We have some fellow hunters and anglers in the WDFW but they are ineffective, silenced, and/or out numbered. We need to take the WDFW kicking and screaming in the right direction, because they have proven through their ACTIONS that they are NOT a partner in managing our resources. :twocents:
Post by: Johnb317 on August 21, 2012, 01:41:03 PM
Too many people anthropomorphise all animals in nature and only know, or care to know the Disney version of nature.
The road to hell is paved in good intentions, and wolves will start eating campers when they run out of deer, elk, coyotes, etc. . Money seems to be the only thing that talks, and Idaho depends on hunters dollars. Hopefully gov otter can continue the course.
Post by: Special T on August 21, 2012, 02:12:56 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 21, 2012, 07:06:32 PM
:yike: where did you hide my dream house at? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. :sry:
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.
Post by: seth30 on August 21, 2012, 07:34:24 PM
Wow, next time I hear of Oklahoma Im going to think of a cool rug and full mount :tup::yike: where did you hide my dream house at? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. :sry:
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 21, 2012, 07:49:21 PM
:yike: where did you hide my dream house at? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. :sry:
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.
You're a bad boy. Go to your room and don't come out until told too !!! :tup:
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 21, 2012, 07:52:47 PM
:yike: where did you hide my dream house at? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. :sry:
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.
You're a bad boy. Go to your room and don't come out until told too !!! :tup:
Guess this is why I'm some what of a recluse! But I'm ok with that also.
Perhaps a social misfit. :dunno:
Didn't mean to jack the thread either. Begging pardons!
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 21, 2012, 07:55:35 PM
:yike: where did you hide my dream house at? :chuckle: :chuckle:
Well sad part is that it's not my place. But it does belong to an outfitter buddy in Oklahoma. :sry:
I'm some what opinionated on what happens in this unit. Last nite I let Emotion over rule Common sense when I posted the photos. I have since removed them.
You're a bad boy. Go to your room and don't come out until told too !!! :tup:
Guess this is why I'm some what of a recluse! But I'm ok with that also.
Perhaps a social misfit. :dunno:
Social misfit just like me !!!
Post by: sebek556 on August 21, 2012, 08:05:53 PM
Post by: Northway on August 22, 2012, 09:59:22 AM
Northway, thankyou for you responce. Unfortunately liberal hunting and trapping won't help us here in this state. A study was done outside the Denali NP in AK and it found that only 3-6% of the population of wolves would be harvested through the normal course of hunting. Harvest goals of 50-70% of the existing population was necessary to keep a STABLE population of wolves(zero gain). In AK they had liberal hunting, trapping and aerial gunning. this study was in responce to AK loosing its aerial hunting ability. :twocents:
ID has used aerial gunning but it was not very effective because of the steep terrain. ID allows the use of foothold traps, WA does not.
2 of the major tools to control wolves are not an option, in this state. This state seems to have a love affair with all matter of predators, from sealions, wolves, Mergansers, courgars, bears, and even the lowly coyote.
Since the restriction of no hound hunting for bear or cougar has been in place, hunting cougars has NOT been able to achieve harvest goals. YET the WDFW has chosen to try and make it HARDER to harvest them. We got them to take away their BS weapons restrictions, and STILL we cannot harvest their numbers which are overly conservative... Last year some Numb Nut that works at the WDFW tired to put some idiotic restrictions on night hunting coyotes, to only use Bird shot, or 22 cal rifles! :bash: Their own attempt to change policy made NO sense! :bash:
Wolves are not an Isolated issue. the Duff's Love affair with ALL predators and their LACK of management and understanding of the issues is the major cause for concern. We have some fellow hunters and anglers in the WDFW but they are ineffective, silenced, and/or out numbered. We need to take the WDFW kicking and screaming in the right direction, because they have proven through their ACTIONS that they are NOT a partner in managing our resources. :twocents:
Special T, do you have a link to that study? I've read through some studies from in and around Denali, but can't recall whether I've read the one you refer to. I'm terrible about saving links to relevant material like that. I think I've seen research that show a 40%/year harvest rate over a period of four years can successfully reduce wolf populations in a given area, but I need to go back and look to actually verify. I'm assuming the Idaho aerial gunning situation you're talking about was over in the Lolo.
With wolves in the equation, I've wondered whether loosening the restrictions on cougar hunting will be necessary, especially when you're talking about maintaining hunter opportunity for ungulates. Studies are showing that cougars make up a significant portion of elk calf predation, even more than wolves in some cases.
On another note, Montana also contracts with Wildlife Services for wolf control:
"Feds may get freer hand to remove problem wolves"
http://helenair.com/news/local/feds-may-get-freer-hand-to-remove-problem-wolves/article_182b1016-ec1c-11e1-bacf-0019bb2963f4.html?comment_form=true (http://helenair.com/news/local/feds-may-get-freer-hand-to-remove-problem-wolves/article_182b1016-ec1c-11e1-bacf-0019bb2963f4.html?comment_form=true)
"Federal agents no longer would need state permission to remove problem wolves under a new draft proposal released Tuesday by Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks.
Under the draft revisions to Montana’s Wolf Depredation Response Protocol, Wildlife Services agents — a division of the U.S. Department of Agriculture — would be authorized to identify, target and remove wolves that are confirmed to have killed livestock. But if the confirmed depredation is in an area where wolves haven’t been previously radio collared and it can’t be determined which wolves were involved, Wildlife Services would be required to collar and release at least one wolf, which would allow biologists to track its movements."
I still haven't found anybody who is familiar with what, if any, relationship there is between WDFW & Wildlife Services.
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 10:27:55 AM
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 10:36:45 AM
look at the 2011 Wolf Monitoring Progress Report
and Wolf Management Update, November, 2011
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2012, 10:43:53 AM
Northway, can you please show me where, anywhere where there has been a 40% harvest rate on wolves? I have never heard of such a thing. Idaho last year including natural causes had 238 wolves die, and a population of 746. that is a 32% death rate including everything, aerial gunning, trapping including snares and leg holds, hit by cars, natural deaths, killed by each other, etc. After a 32% rate they were only expecting a 4% decrease in population.
I've heard of a growth rate of 40-50%, but never a death rate that large.
Post by: buckfvr on August 22, 2012, 10:50:09 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on August 22, 2012, 10:57:56 AM
I think I've seen research that show a 40%/year harvest rate over a period of four years can successfully reduce wolf populations in a given area, but I need to go back and look to actually verify.
Please post that research and please post examples of where they were actually able to achieve a 40% harvest rate.
Post by: Northway on August 22, 2012, 11:19:02 AM
I think I've seen research that show a 40%/year harvest rate over a period of four years can successfully reduce wolf populations in a given area, but I need to go back and look to actually verify.
Please post that research and please post examples of where they were actually able to achieve a 40% harvest rate.
I'll try to dig up that research online and post the links.
Keep in mind that it wasn't a 40% hunter harvest rate, it was targed wolf reduction program in specific areas, carried out by the Alaska Department of Fish & Game. "Harvest" was probably not the best word to use in my original post.
Post by: Special T on August 22, 2012, 01:10:50 PM
Post by: denali on August 22, 2012, 02:19:53 PM
Suzanne Stone
Several wolf depredation experts, including myself have reviewed the state’s investigation reports and found that none of the injuries are characteristic of wolf predation on livestock.
so apparently all of the WDFW/USDA/USFW/Tribal rigs running around up there and the 14 pages of this tread have been a waste of time, a cruel hoax :chuckle: :'(
Post by: rasbo on August 22, 2012, 02:28:36 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2012, 02:31:32 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 02:41:08 PM
Post by: Dave Workman on August 22, 2012, 02:55:31 PM
Be sure and leave a comment below my column if you have facebook...weigh in, speak your piece....
Wolf advocates howling over WDFW action in ‘The Wedge’
Wolf management by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife in Northeast Washington could be on a collision course with the Defenders of Wildlife (DOW), which is sounding alarms over plans by the agency to kill up to four more wolves because of predation on cattle.
http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles (http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles)
Post by: MikeWalking on August 22, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/)
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2012, 03:21:57 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 22, 2012, 03:44:41 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 22, 2012, 06:24:34 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 06:41:14 PM
Post by: RG on August 22, 2012, 06:52:18 PM
Post by: Gringo31 on August 22, 2012, 07:09:49 PM
Quote
Candice Forsmark: DONT KILL THEM!!!! I hate humans. we are a terrible race. we already destroyed the land, the oceans, now we are destroying wildlife. the government is stupid and will lead EVERYONE to extinction. they should atleast relocate the wolves to a safer area instead of killling them like cockroaches!!! they are beautiful creatures that deserve to live more than we do. They help keep the balance of the World, and we kill them for doing it. i hate humans. someone should go and take the wolves away in the middle of the night and send them to a safer area AWAY from horrible humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Gringo31 on August 22, 2012, 07:12:08 PM
Quote
Mystic Wolf Project Alpha Wolf
Here is a copy of the letter I just sent to the Director of WDFW with a link to the Wedge Pack petition:
Hello,
My name is Shelly Bristow and I am a co-founder of Project Alpha Wolf, a wolf advocacy group based in Washington State.
I am attaching a petition I started on Friday after a telephone conversation I had with David Ware on Thursday, August 16th. After this conversation I did not feel that the actions being taken against the Wedge Pack were based in science, that appropriate non-lethal had been attempted or that every effort was being made to meet the recovery goals for wolves in our state. In addition, as wolves are still listed as endangered, this felt like a very rash decision.
It does seem like a political play to prove to ranchers that WDFW is willing to kill wolves. I'm not sure how much support WDFW will get from the pro-wolf community based on the circumstances surrounding the Wedge Pack. These include the fact that the Rancher (Mr. McIrvine) has publically stated he would like to poison and trap wolves. In addition he has refused to accept help from conservation groups and boycotted educational events that were offered to help ranchers deal with non-lethal deterrents.
This is not even touching on the fact that at least one of the depredations occurred on public grazing land in a National Forest. Apparently the BLM is surprised at the number of cows that are actually on that grazing allotment, and that the allotment is in the middle of the rendezvous site for the Wedge Pack.
I think we all know that the real problem here is not wolves. The problem is this piece of public grazing land is located in a national forest on public lands. Therefore, this land is leased by Mr. McIrvine for grazing purposes and actually belongs to all of us.
David Ware explained to me that WDFW is looking to "experts" in Idaho and Montana for help on how to work with this pack. Therefore it is no surprise that the logical answer would be to kill 5 members of a pack that you have no official count on. How can you even know what the impact will be if you don't know the total number of wolves? Maybe before you kill 5 of them, you need an accurate count? Maybe you should consider talking to experts from Minnesota or Wisconsin, or even Alberta Canada, where they have lived with wolves longer and more harmoniously then with Idaho or Montana. Apparently one of the calves was actually hit by a car, and your "expert" still thought it was a wolf kill?
The people in Washington State will not get used to killing a pack as a "routine" method of dealing with wolf issues. Do not assume we are like the citizens of Idaho or Montana, as that will be a big mistake. Assume that we expect you to make rational decisions, perform research, support your decisions with accurate scientific data and follow the intent of the Washington State Wolf Management plan in order to serve ALL citizens, not just ranchers and hunters.
I attended several of the Wolf Management meetings and testified at them. I heard the tone and attitude of the Commission. It was very biased towards ranchers and hunters. That was not very well disguised.
If you go through with eliminating this pack, and do not have adequate science to produce to support it, expect a very swift and loud response, and be prepared to produce documentation to support every aspect of how you came to your decision. Expect a flood of phone calls, emails, petitions and letters. Expect a lot of your time to be spent explaining your actions to 75% of the people who supported wolves coming back into this state.
I and many others have watched how the wolf situation has been handled in other states. A small minority of loud mouthed ranchers and hunters are NOT going to determine the fate of wolves in Washington State. There are many ranchers and hunters who are very reasonable and willing to work with wolves. The hill you are choosing to die on for this McIrvine guy...I don't think the timing (the plan not even being a year old and you not knowing the number of wolves in the pack prior to taking 5 out, the fact that all non-lethal has not been pursued)...or his character (he is not a sympathetic character and comes off as a hotheaded wolf hater) are going to promote any kind of support for WDFW. It's going to look biased, which it probably is.
In addition, my group is affiliated with several Wolf Advocacy groups nationwide. They are all watching and waiting for your next move. The Wedge Pack is the next Imnaha Pack. I'd be very cautious and thoughtful about how this is handled.
Will you be posting investigation reports online for the public to see? Why were the calves returned to Mr. McIrvine before a second opinion could be completed? Why does this seem so shady?
I'd appreciate some answers. So would the people who have signed this petition. It just went up on Friday. It has 3352 signatures to date...
I would appreciate a response.
Sincerely,
Shelly Bristow
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 07:40:58 PM
" Assume that we expect you to make rational decisions, perform research, support your decisions with accurate scientific data and follow the intent of the Washington State Wolf Management plan in order to serve ALL citizens"
isn't this what we wanted? then we got told we are retarded and just go sit in the corner and pay us basically..
"I and many others have watched how the wolf situation has been handled in other states. A small minority of loud mouthed ranchers and hunters are NOT going to determine the fate of wolves in Washington State."
We watched it too, and your right a small minority that is us will not determine the fate of wolves, cause the people's who salary we pay won't listen to us..
"I don't think the timing (the plan not even being a year old and you not knowing the number of wolves in the pack prior to taking 5 out, the fact that all non-lethal has not been pursued)" umm learn to read they know the pack number and have the alpha collared, non lethal has been used and as normal it does nothing.
I could go on and on, but my beer is empty and that is something I can fix, unlike this closed minded wolf loving animalphile
Post by: Kola16 on August 22, 2012, 09:52:30 PM
Kristi Lloyd · Top Commenter
"One wolf from this pack was killed about two weeks ago. It is a well-known fact that this can lead to MORE depredation on livestock, WFW screwed this up. You know why there was no answer from Spokane? Because of the many, many phone calls from people across the country, NOT just WA, but across the country burning up their phone lines, the phones were turned off! The governor has washed her hands of this and handed it back to WFW. This rancher let his cows wander off into national forest, unattended, on their own....how many predators live in national forests? Do cows really need to graze in forests?? 4 more members of this pack have been targeted to be killed, including this spring's pups, er, sub-adults, according to WFW. It sounds more PC when you say you will kill sub-adults instead of 4,5 month old pups. Their ...excuse for it being ok to kill the pups...fewer mouths to feed. How about the rancher stepping up to protect his own cows, preferably on his OWN land. But when you pay $1.35/animal unit in the first place you expect mountains to be moved for you. Two weeks ago, USFWS PR specialist told me that they are trying to build up credibility with ranchers (this was regarding the Mexican gray wolf that was going to be killed). Today the assistant director of WFW said that they are trying to build trust with ranchers. The coincidence of these two agencies saying practically the same thing is just amazing, isn't it? This WA rancher has said he would boycott the meeting where non-lethal methods of controlling predators was being done. He has been uncooperative, irresponsible, and just wants these wolves dead, period. This is NOT proper management...wolf management is more about the humans than it is the wolves." See More
Reply · 2 · Like
· 5 hours ago
Post by: bobcat on August 22, 2012, 09:55:11 PM
One of my favorite DOW posts/comments from their facebook page....QuoteCandice Forsmark: DONT KILL THEM!!!! I hate humans. we are a terrible race. we already destroyed the land, the oceans, now we are destroying wildlife. the government is stupid and will lead EVERYONE to extinction. they should atleast relocate the wolves to a safer area instead of killling them like cockroaches!!! they are beautiful creatures that deserve to live more than we do. They help keep the balance of the World, and we kill them for doing it. i hate humans. someone should go and take the wolves away in the middle of the night and send them to a safer area AWAY from horrible humans!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:chuckle: Hilarious! What a moron! She should go live with the wolves then, if she hates humans so much! :hello:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 22, 2012, 10:08:29 PM
Post by: KFhunter on August 22, 2012, 10:11:33 PM
Be sure and leave a comment below my column if you have facebook...weigh in, speak your piece....
Wolf advocates howling over WDFW action in ‘The Wedge’
Wolf management by the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife in Northeast Washington could be on a collision course with the Defenders of Wildlife (DOW), which is sounding alarms over plans by the agency to kill up to four more wolves because of predation on cattle.
http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles (http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles)
I got a kick out of this little gem from Defenders of Wildlife
Quote
Though I’m not a field investigator, I have personally evaluated more than one million dollars of livestock depredations due to wolves
What more needs said?
Post by: bearpaw on August 22, 2012, 10:38:22 PM
FWIW This just showed up on my Facebook page a little bit ago.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/)
WDFW is recognizing the fact that dozens of people sighted those pups that were raised in 2009. :tup:
I think they know there is another pack too, there are trail cam photos of wolves on both the eastside and westside of the wedge last winter.
Glad to see the WDFW acting quickly and fairly responsibly, they are moving in the right direction. If wolf recovery will ever have a chance of working, it will only happen by the responsible actions of WDFW. I doubt the people of NE Washington are willing to go through what Idaho went through for 15 years. That simply isn't going to happen. Suzzanne Stone needs to take a dose of reality. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on August 22, 2012, 10:56:05 PM
You would think that after losing ground in Idaho on wolves after the wolf lovers tried to force too many wolves into that state that these wolf lovers would recognize when they have the best opportunity for the most wolves in Washington. They won a sweet deal with the 15 confirmed packs (WA wolf Plan), but they really want more.
These wolf lovers are so dumbed down with disney-emotion that they will try and force too many wolves on yet another state "Washington". I expect them to sue to stop the legitimate culling of these beef-eating wolves and if that happens the problem will only escalate. The smartest thing Stone and all the wolf lovers could do is to support the removal of problem wolves, with the hope to make the wolf population more compatable.
But don't expect smart thinking on the part of wolf lovers anytime soon. :chuckle:
Post by: sebek556 on August 22, 2012, 11:21:11 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 23, 2012, 06:38:07 AM
paino would you mind a little copy and pasting of said facebook?
The guy removed his post. Northway has PM'd me to say he doesn't know who the guy is, but is not happy he was referenced somewhere else.
The gist of the past was " You look like a dork. Northway sends his regards you POS."
Post by: Killmore on August 23, 2012, 08:12:17 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on August 23, 2012, 08:17:23 AM
Their subdivisions, malls and golf courses don't help the animals either. In my opinion, there is not a place for wolves in today's world without very sane management.
Post by: Gringo31 on August 23, 2012, 08:33:35 AM
Quote
The smartest thing Stone and all the wolf lovers could do is to support the removal of problem wolves, with the hope to make the wolf population more compatable.
You said a mouthfull Dale.... :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on August 23, 2012, 02:16:48 PM
Wolf attacks cost Wisconsin taxpayers $1.5 million
http://centralwisconsinhub.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20120820/WDH0101/308200131/Wolf-attacks-cost-Wisconsin-taxpayers-1-5-million?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE (http://centralwisconsinhub.wausaudailyherald.com/article/20120820/WDH0101/308200131/Wolf-attacks-cost-Wisconsin-taxpayers-1-5-million?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE)
Post by: bearpaw on August 23, 2012, 02:33:35 PM
http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles (http://www.examiner.com/article/wolf-advocates-howling-over-wdfw-action-the-wedge?cid=db_articles)
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 23, 2012, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: Johnb317 on August 23, 2012, 04:43:41 PM
She's one of the idiots who pushed re-introduction (Before coming to Defenders, Suzanne started as her career as the public outreach intern for the Central Idaho Wolf Recovery Steering Committee, the assistant director of the Wolf Education and Research Center and then director of Idaho's Wolf Recovery Foundation. She has presented on wolf conservation and nonlethal conflict management methods at conferences and seminars, including Oxford University, the First Diversitas International Conference on Biodiversity, the World Wolf Symposium and the Montana Wool Growers Annual Convention. Suzanne holds a Masters degree in Wildlife Conservation and Conflict Management from Prescott College in Arizona and has received numerous awards for her work, including the "Alpha Award," presented by her peers at the 2005 North American Wolf Conference.)
Masters degree in Wildlife Conservation?! Nothing about Wildlife Management /Biology etc. She's worked since 1988 to bring Canadian wolves to the U.S.
Problem with these people is that it's all theory... i.e. release the wolves and everything will be ok., and they all seem to forget that mankind cannot be left out of the equation. She makes her living getting donations to save the wolves.
So, although she's not a FIELD INVESTIGATOR, and I assume she didn't go out on the field in question... she knows that her wolves wouldn't think of killing a cow.
:bash:
Post by: RG on August 23, 2012, 07:40:54 PM
"Though I’m not a field investigator, I have personally evaluated more than one million dollars of livestock depredations due to wolves, and managed Defenders’ wolf compensation program from 1999 to 2011."
She's one of the idiots who pushed re-introduction (Before coming to Defenders, Suzanne started as her career as the public outreach intern for the Central Idaho Wolf Recovery Steering Committee, the assistant director of the Wolf Education and Research Center and then director of Idaho's Wolf Recovery Foundation. She has presented on wolf conservation and nonlethal conflict management methods at conferences and seminars, including Oxford University, the First Diversitas International Conference on Biodiversity, the World Wolf Symposium and the Montana Wool Growers Annual Convention. Suzanne holds a Masters degree in Wildlife Conservation and Conflict Management from Prescott College in Arizona and has received numerous awards for her work, including the "Alpha Award," presented by her peers at the 2005 North American Wolf Conference.)
Masters degree in Wildlife Conservation?! Nothing about Wildlife Management /Biology etc. She's worked since 1988 to bring Canadian wolves to the U.S.
Problem with these people is that it's all theory... i.e. release the wolves and everything will be ok., and they all seem to forget that mankind cannot be left out of the equation. She makes her living getting donations to save the wolves.
So, although she's not a FIELD INVESTIGATOR, and I assume she didn't go out on the field in question... she knows that her wolves wouldn't think of killing a cow.
:bash:
The problem with these people is they have never once had the actual experience of living, working, making a life, in the neighborhood with these wolves. They live in a world of books and academia where everything exists in a theoretical universe in their minds. Someday she needs to put on a pair of jeans and boots, saddle a horse, and go work from sunup to sundown out in those woods, day after day after day for about 5 or 10 years as many of us have. She will experience first hand the lifestyle and then, only then, will I listen to what she has to say because she will now have training and real life experience which would qualify her as an expert. Until then she's just background noise and a wonder in her own mind and the minds of her peers. I bet she makes a nice paycheck too.
Post by: bobcat on August 23, 2012, 09:34:27 PM
I think it's humanure come back to :stirthepot:
I think he needs banned again.
That is not me, so you can stop with that. And you want me banned for what? because I agree with the forum, yet examine the issue from all sides. Yet you are the one name calling, which is aganist forum rules and can make you subject to being banned. If Dale wants to ban me for having an opinion then go ahead. All that at would do is make the site look bad and lose credibility. It is a chat room, which means everyone can speak their opinion. We don't all have to agree.
:ban:
:whoo:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 24, 2012, 05:26:32 AM
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151017020731761%26set=a.390652606760.166104.385127436760%26type=1%26theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151017020731761%26set=a.390652606760.166104.385127436760%26type=1%26theater)
Dallas Bolen
Bunch of emasculated hunters with not much endowment trying to huff and puff like gorillas. No one cares how long your family has lived on property stolen from the natives.
humanure speaks... Just do it DFW
Post by: Johnb317 on August 24, 2012, 07:55:00 AM
Our presence (humans) is a part of nature, and we also are a major impact.
The Indians used to set fires ( what we now call controlled burns ), lumber, agriculture, urban, and rural sprawl all alter what nature does.
The reintroduction of any species without equal recognition to all the above often, and I believe in the case of wolves does lead to disastrous consequences.
Interesting how groups like RMEF, and DU raise money and provide labor to protect, purchase, and improve habitat, and where most of these friends of the animal groups use raised money for law suits and lobbying.
In Africa big game hunting does more for protection of wildlife because it pays.
The same can be said for hunters and fishermen here. Our dollars both directly and indirectly do more for wildlife and conservation.
Sorry. Off the soap box.
Post by: finnman on August 24, 2012, 08:23:40 AM
The so called pet wolf is now turning on her master! They will rip out the throat of the WDFW if they kill this pack off! They will see the real deal then!
Post by: denali on August 24, 2012, 02:33:14 PM
Ranchers live in the shadow of wolves
By MATTHEW WEAVER
Capital Press
LAURIER, Wash. -- On some evenings, Bill McIrvin will ride to the top of a ridge in the middle of his cattle range and let out a howl.
Most of the time, wolves answer back with their own howls.
"I'm just up there seeing if they're into our cattle and which bunch of cattle they're into," he said.
It's frustrating for the rancher, who raises 200 cow-calf pairs on 34,000 acres of private, state and federal land about a mile south of the Canadian border. Some of the livestock do not make it through the summer. The wolves attack and kill some and harass the others.
Six generations of the McIrvin family have lived on the Diamond M ranch, where Bill McIrvin is a partner with his father, Len McIrvin, and nephew, Justin Hedrick.
This summer the McIrvins have found five dead calves and estimate they've lost a total of 40 calves to wolves because of the number of mothers coming back dry, meaning they're no longer nursing calves.
The problem has gotten so bad the state Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has resorted to killing some of the wolves near the ranch. The McIrvins have had to bring in a quarter of their animals from the range because of the wolves and plan to bring in more.
The attacks are consistent with wolves, the McIrvins say, with bites primarily in the hindquarters and shoulders, with lots of wounded calves. Cougars are plentiful, but typically bite a calf in the face and rip them open behind the shoulder, while bears will bite them through the back.
On a 30-mile loop the afternoon of Aug. 23, they found five cow-calf pairs, with 150 still grazing elsewhere, unseen.
"We've found five dead ones, and I think we're very lucky, or unlucky, to have found them," Len McIrvin said.
State wildlife managers have decided to kill up to four wolves in the Wedge Wolf Pack near the McIrvin ranch to break up the pattern of depredation. Washington Fish and Wildlife Game Division manager Dave Ware said the pack is estimated to have at least four adults and several pups.
"The technique we're using is to basically reduce the food requirements of the pack," Ware said. "If you can remove enough mouths from the pack, then their requirements go down and they tend to take livestock less frequently."
Those efforts will likely last into next week, Ware said.
Ranchers can receive state compensation for two animals for a confirmed wolf kill and compensation for one cow for a probable kill.
Len McIrvin said the cost of wolves includes the loss of calves at $1,000 each, the cost of feed and vaccinations, cows that come back not pregnant and the cost of using additional winter feed for thinner animals in hopes they will rebreed next winter.
There's also at least $10,000 worth of extra labor to employ at least one cowboy each day all summer to work the massive range and survey for wolves.
The McIrvins have refused compensation from the state for their losses.
"If we take $100,000 from the department, that's us saying, 'It's all right for the wolves to be here as long as you pay us,'" Len McIrvin said. "It's not all right, they will put us out of business."
The McIrvins are in the heart of the wolf debate, but livestock industry officials say they won't be alone for long.
Jack Field, executive vice president of the Washington Cattlemen's Association, said the problems with the state wolf management and recovery plan -- wolf harassment and depredation, cattle weight loss, inability to use rangelands -- were all predicted by ranchers prior to its adoption in December 2011.
"It's unfortunately only going to be a matter of time until there's wider-spread depredations, bigger losses and this is going to be something that will go on for years to come," Field said.
"It's only going to get worse," said Nate Hair, Cattle Producers of Washington president. "These wolves travel, they're not going to stay in one particular area."
There aren't many options for ranchers, Hair said, noting those available have been at best unsuccessful. Under the Endangered Species Act, wolves are federally delisted in the eastern part of the state, and not in the western two-thirds, but Hair said the state is treating the animal as an endangered species.
"We're kind of handcuffed because people on the west side of the mountains think they're going to drive over here and listen to the wolves howl," he said.
Making wolves a priority over the livelihood of livestock ranchers is damaging the industry's ability to provide a quality product, Hair said.
"If the rancher can't stay in business and maintain his herd with high quality, he's going to get out of business," Hair said. "He can't afford to stay in it very long at these losses."
Field recommended industry members be fully engaged and work with the department to the fullest degree possible, taking advantage of landowner agreements, in which individual ranchers work with the state.
"We've been dealt a bad hand with the wolf plan and we need to do the best we can to make the most of it," Field said.
"They're wild animals; science has nothing to do with this," Hair said. "You can do all the scientific studies and research you want, at the end of the day, they make the decision what their actions are going to be. They're not a warm and fuzzy pet."
Mitch Friedman, Conservation Northwest executive director, said he remains unconvinced about McIrvin's efforts to manage his herd to reduce conflicts with wolves. He does not agree that there are no options for better herd management.
"We want to see more clarity, certainty, that wolves are responsible for these past incidences," he said. "We're aware there are experts raising questions and the field biologists are themselves not convinced that all, or perhaps even any, of these incidents are conclusively wolves."
Friedman believes the state is under pressure and needs to take more time. He accused McIrvin of alerting the media first, then the local sheriff's office, then the wildlife department while reaching out to county and state legislators to turn up the heat.
"Generally, when wolves are in the neighborhood, everything gets blamed on them," he said. "But when the evidence is in, it's a small portion of incidents that actually ends up involving wolves."
If it's not a wolf, Friedman isn't certain what would be the cause. While he admitted to hemorrhaging on the rear flanks and groin in one of the recent calf attacks, there were no puncture wounds in the hide.
"We want to work collaboratively, we want to make this work so ranchers are not overly impacted by the presence of wolves," he said.
Field said Diamond M is doing everything possible to protect their cattle. Anyone who says otherwise has no place to make such a statement, he said.
"That demonstrates their absolute disconnect from reality and their single agenda that has nothing to do with wolf management," he said.
The McIrvins have received six to eight hate calls, including blatant threats or people raving, Len McIrvin said.
"These people say get dogs, get donkeys, get electric fences," he said. "This is an impossible situation, at 30,000 to 40,000 acres of the roughest terrain where cattle are spread throughout."
Bill McIrvin isn't certain there's a way to get through to the wolf advocates.
"If they could realize the amount of time and sacrifice we've put into our animals," he said. "We're up through the night calving. ... We live with them day and night seven days a week. To have a predator come in and destroy everything we've worked for -- if there was some way they could see that."
The McIrvins blame part of the problem on a change in philosophy, reflected in the change of the name of the state department to Fish and Wildlife from Fish and Game.
"Now it seems like they're predator protection, and they do anything to enhance the predator population at the expense of the game," he said.
The McIrvins intend to keep ranching, in hopes that enough awareness will arise of the impact wolves are having on the industry.
Bill McIrvin is hoping for total removal of the Wedge Pack.
"Maybe we'll have a year or two reprieve before another cattle-killing pack sets up residence here," he said. "If we can get this pack removed, hopefully we'll have long enough that people in Washington can wake up and see what's going to happen to our game and our livelihood."
http://www.capitalpress.com/content/mw-Len-McIrvin-082312-art?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook (http://www.capitalpress.com/content/mw-Len-McIrvin-082312-art?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook)
Post by: bearpaw on August 24, 2012, 05:56:03 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 24, 2012, 08:25:09 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on August 25, 2012, 07:41:07 AM
Can anyone else smell the first lawsuit fermenting?
Post by: Killmore on August 25, 2012, 07:56:24 AM
Post by: sebek556 on August 25, 2012, 09:04:45 AM
Post by: RG on August 25, 2012, 09:38:35 AM
Post by: villageidiot on August 28, 2012, 10:09:26 PM
Post by: denali on August 29, 2012, 08:52:17 PM
any sliver of belief that the WDFW has interest in sportsmen and sportswomen as anything other than a revenue stream?...well that's gone.
No amount of resources, time or money spent by livestock owners will appease wolf advocates
http://www.conservationnw.org/news/scat/field-update-on-the-wedge-pack (http://www.conservationnw.org/news/scat/field-update-on-the-wedge-pack)
http://www.defendersblog.org/2012/08/front-line-update-on-washingtons-wolves/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blog_dow+%28Defenders+of+Wildlife+Blog%29 (http://www.defendersblog.org/2012/08/front-line-update-on-washingtons-wolves/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blog_dow+%28Defenders+of+Wildlife+Blog%29)
Post by: Special T on August 29, 2012, 09:01:33 PM
Post by: sebek556 on August 29, 2012, 09:04:02 PM
Science rules the day huh? WE are not in the f'ing northern rockie dip *censored*! They are so f'ing dumb they don't even know where they are.
http://rockymountainmaps.com/show_map.php?map=northern-rockies (http://rockymountainmaps.com/show_map.php?map=northern-rockies)
Post by: Killmore on August 30, 2012, 07:54:41 AM
Post by: Lincoln4 on August 30, 2012, 05:50:01 PM
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/State-gives-targeted-wolves-a-reprieve-168076626.html (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/State-gives-targeted-wolves-a-reprieve-168076626.html)
WDFW must stop the hunt and conduct a review...
Post by: RG on August 30, 2012, 06:19:15 PM
Post by: bearpaw on August 31, 2012, 08:44:14 AM
Not an exact quote, but McIrvin said he feels he is not getting much help and is being abandoned.
Post by: Atroxus on August 31, 2012, 08:49:36 AM
Another wolf attacked calf was found yesterday, Thursday 8/30/2012 in GMU 105 (the wedge). The Stevens County Commissioners discussed this last night. McIrvin was on local radio this morning and said he has 40 dead calves plus damages to the rest of his herd. Roy Graber his neighboring rancher has also suffered losses last winter while his cattle were being fed through the winter.
Not an exact quote, but McIrvin said he feels he is not getting much help and is being abandoned.
I just heard on the radio this morning, (KUOW) that after pressure from activists WDFW has scrapped their plans to kill 4 wolves, but may still take action if predation continues. :bash:
Post by: buckfvr on August 31, 2012, 08:57:33 AM
Post by: Silent-one on August 31, 2012, 09:17:04 AM
If you want to see them take action, go shoot a wolf....... :bash:
:yeah: If the WDFW were serious about this issue there would already be 4 more dead wolves. They have had the approval for over a week now to kill them. It should'nt be to hard to turn on the tracker and find the pack.
Post by: bearpaw on August 31, 2012, 09:22:36 AM
Post by: Miles on August 31, 2012, 09:51:50 AM
Actually they have had sharp shooters up in the wedge (GMU 105) but the wolves have figured out they are being hunted and are not standing around begging to be shot. I know they have seen wolves but have been unable to kill any more of them. This is why it took the pioneers so long to eradicate wolves.
That's also why they should be a "SOS" animal...
Shoot On Site, coming to a deer hunt near you 2012.
Post by: Gringo31 on August 31, 2012, 09:53:23 AM
I wish WDFW would look at this as a local issue. The "feelings" of people who are out of state or not even in 200 miles of this area I don't think should have a say.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 31, 2012, 10:06:33 AM
Post by: Miles on August 31, 2012, 10:07:59 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 31, 2012, 10:13:48 AM
That's why they're at McIrvins...
..................oh crap, I forgot about that !!! :chuckle: and illegals at that.
Post by: Silent-one on August 31, 2012, 10:37:39 AM
Actually they have had sharp shooters up in the wedge (GMU 105) but the wolves have figured out they are being hunted and are not standing around begging to be shot. I know they have seen wolves but have been unable to kill any more of them. This is why it took the pioneers so long to eradicate wolves.
I can understand it being difficult to get shots off in that country, but I do believe that if the state was serious about the issue there would already be more dead wolves. It might be harder than I would think but, it seems to me that if they have the alpha male collared and the pack is hanging together it should'nt be to hard to slip in un-noticed and take one or two out. After a week or two of monitoring there movements you would even think they could determine where they might be at a certain time or where they are going, then get someone in a position to intercept them. :dunno:
I just dont think they are taking the issue as serious as they should, more of a just sit back and see what happens stance. Maybe there hoping that McIrvin will decide to pull his herd out early and they wont have to deal with it for the rest of the year.
On another note I have heard that the WDFW is not being very cooperative with the Spokane Tribe on information from the Huckleberry pack. I understand they have a trapper up in that area right now trying to catch one or more and get collars on them. I was told the other day that the Spokane Tribe has hired the same trapper that the Colville's used to try and trap some of them as well. When he contacted the bioligists in the area they would not give him any information on the pack, I was told that there excuse was "we are not giving you any information because we know that if you guys get a collar on one you will not share any of the information with us."
The spokane tribe has no established season on the wolves yet and right now it is open for Tribal members to harvest one if they please. I know there are several tribal members that tried to get some last winter and were unsuccessful. I believe this year is going to be different and we will soon hear about one or more of the Huckleberry pack being harvested on the Spokane Res.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 31, 2012, 10:47:28 AM
Post by: bearpaw on August 31, 2012, 10:52:09 AM
Actually they have had sharp shooters up in the wedge (GMU 105) but the wolves have figured out they are being hunted and are not standing around begging to be shot. I know they have seen wolves but have been unable to kill any more of them. This is why it took the pioneers so long to eradicate wolves.
I can understand it being difficult to get shots off in that country, but I do believe that if the state was serious about the issue there would already be more dead wolves. It might be harder than I would think but, it seems to me that if they have the alpha male collared and the pack is hanging together it should'nt be to hard to slip in un-noticed and take one or two out. After a week or two of monitoring there movements you would even think they could determine where they might be at a certain time or where they are going, then get someone in a position to intercept them. :dunno:
I just dont think they are taking the issue as serious as they should, more of a just sit back and see what happens stance. Maybe there hoping that McIrvin will decide to pull his herd out early and they wont have to deal with it for the rest of the year.
On another note I have heard that the WDFW is not being very cooperative with the Spokane Tribe on information from the Huckleberry pack. I understand they have a trapper up in that area right now trying to catch one or more and get collars on them. I was told the other day that the Spokane Tribe has hired the same trapper that the Colville's used to try and trap some of them as well. When he contacted the bioligists in the area they would not give him any information on the pack, I was told that there excuse was "we are not giving you any information because we know that if you guys get a collar on one you will not share any of the information with us."
The spokane tribe has no established season on the wolves yet and right now it is open for Tribal members to harvest one if they please. I know there are several tribal members that tried to get some last winter and were unsuccessful. I believe this year is going to be different and we will soon hear about one or more of the Huckleberry pack being harvested on the Spokane Res.
Doesn't any tribe just like any other government agency have to have a USFWS approved wolf plan before they can manage wolves. :dunno:
Post by: Silent-one on August 31, 2012, 11:15:45 AM
I talked to a tribal member face to face yesterday and he said, The tribe does not want ANY tribal member to shoot a wolf.
The problem with the Spokane Tribe is they are undecided on how to handle the issue. In order for them to not be shot tribal council would have to pass a resolution to protect them. As of right now that resolution has not been passed and they can be hunted by Tribal Members. As far as having to have approval from the USFWS: First of all the tribe is not a Government Agency, they are a Sovereign Nation and since the wolves were delisted from the FESA they can now be hunted by the tribes if they choose to do so and the feds have no say in it. There is no requirement for an approved wolf plan, unless it is that specific tribes requirement.
Like I said, the Spokane Tribe is undecided on how to manage the wolves. I was just talking to my budy the other day and told him that if he wanted to shoot a wolf he better hope is the first one, because with there biologist being undecided once one is killed I am sure she will fold under all the pressure that the state and the greenies will give her. I personaly now one individual that shot at a wolf last year on the reservation and missed. One member even had traps out last winter trying to trap them, and like I said there a currently several Tribal Members that are packin and will shoot on site. It wont be long!
Post by: Kowsrule30 on August 31, 2012, 11:29:49 AM
Post by: coop2424 on August 31, 2012, 11:41:30 AM
Post by: denali on August 31, 2012, 01:17:07 PM
Wolf hunting is legal right across the border in BC from McIrvins. I wonder if the BC ranchers are having to same wolf problems ?
U.S. wildlife managers could have seen that coming if they had only looked north. Wolves run rampant in many parts of Canada, and the problem is so bad in parts of Alberta that a $300 bounty was posted on them, Boon said.
Boon attributes the growth of the British Columbia wolf population to abundant food -- moose, caribou, deer and livestock -- and lots of snow in the winter, making it easier for them to kill their prey. He also says there is less hunting and fewer wolves are trapped because the value of pelts is falling.
As the number of wolves has grown, "they have driven some of our guys out of business," he said.
Wolves cost British Columbia cattlemen an estimated $8 million to $10 million
http://www.capitalpress.com/mobile/cs-WA-wolf-edit-081712-w-map (http://www.capitalpress.com/mobile/cs-WA-wolf-edit-081712-w-map)
Post by: Northway on September 03, 2012, 10:42:27 AM
"Wedge Pack update: The latest two incidents (two injured calves reported late last week). This time, all the field experts, including Carter Niemeyer, agree that wolves are involved. Conservation Northwest believes that the evidence is now conclusive that Wedge wolves are actively attacking livestock. We accept that under the Wolf Recovery and Management Plan, these incident trigger management responses, including lethal removal, but we call for moderation and incremental action by the state and more effort by the rancher, in hopes that a solution can be found that abates the attacks while preserving the existence of this pack."
Conservation Northwest gets a strategy FAIL for its handling of this situation.
Post by: Special T on September 03, 2012, 01:21:53 PM
Post by: Northway on September 04, 2012, 09:14:32 AM
This "lets wait and see" attitude is what bothers me the most. It not like these issues have not already happened in ID or MT. We are not reinventing the wheel here. :bash: Many of these "conservation groups" are just stalling even when there are lots of wolves like in ID and MT than fight tooth and nail when ANY kind of lethal MGT is involved.
What bothers me the most is that too many folks who work for, or support these non-profits are driven so much by emotion that they are willing to fall on the sword for every individual animal. If someone can't handle the fact that wolves will be hunted, they will be removed in control actions - even entire packs, then they should be opposed to wolf recolonisation of Washington.
If WDFW decides a pack needs to be removed, then I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now. I don't believe, and I doubt anyone here would make the claim that they are going to be overly trigger-happy when it comes to wolves. After having quite a wolf-friendly management plan put in place, why would a single group publicly call out WDFW on one of their first removal decisions? Calling a bunch of people out over a chronically depredating pack that doesn't even spend all its time in Washington State doesn't make sense to me.
If these groups are coming out publicly over this because of pressure from their membership, they need to get better at saving some of those folks from themselves...........
Post by: bearpaw on September 06, 2012, 08:19:43 AM
More new wolf attacks found on cattle in Stevens County over the Labor Day weekend. The ranchers are losing at least $1000 with every attack and wolf groups say there is no proof it's wolves doing the damage. Many of you have read about the repeated wolf attacks on livestock in Stevens County. These problem wolves need to be removed.
LETTERS TO GOVERNOR
I have heard that roughly 15,000 letters have been received by WDFW and Governor Gregoire asking that wolf management be ceased. I also heard that not one letter has been received in support of wolf removal. The WDFW had suspended wolf removal efforts for the Labor Day weekend. Over the weekend, Washington for Wildlife (WFW) has sent a letter of support for wolf removal.
Hunting-Washington is sending a letter of support today asking that wolf removal be continued.
PLEASE SEND A LETTER
I am urging everyone who support responsible wolf management to take a few moments and send a quick email message in support of problem wolf removal.
Copy and paste this email list and your choice of messages below or make your own message and please do it now so you don't forget!
director@dfw.wa.gov
commission@dfw.wa.gov
commissioners@co.stevens.wa.us
Joel.Kretz@leg.wa.gov
Short.Shelly@leg.wa.gov
Morton.Bob@leg.wa.gov
Kevin.Ranker@leg.wa.gov
brian.blake@leg.wa.gov
Also please send your message to the governor here: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/ (http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/)
template #1
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I fully support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves that are attacking and killing livestock in Northeast Washington.
The McIrvin family has suffered significant financial losses due to these problem wolves. Thank you for helping these people.
Respectfully,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #2
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I wish to express my support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
It’s the responsibility of WDFW to respond to wild animal complaints including wolf attacks on livestock.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #3
Dear Governor Gregoire,
Please support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove all the problem wolves from the “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
Wolf groups don't care what happens in Eastern Washington because it's not in their backyard. But it’s important for the WDFW to remove all wolves that attack livestock in Washington before they teach other wolves to do the same. These wolves will have significant impacts on ranching incomes and local economies.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
Post by: Skillet on September 06, 2012, 08:42:34 AM
Post by: sebek556 on September 06, 2012, 08:56:50 AM
This is however my back yard. My family and many others in the area depend on our small herds of cattle to make it threw each year. Many familys in stevens county cannot afford the lose of one cow. I know of multiple familys who depend on one to two cows to provide food for their family each year. The lose of these animals would be devastating to those familys. This issue needs to be addressed now, rather than bow down to wolf groups. The wolf groups do nothing to support the stevens county area, look at the news all they do is slander us into some back woods hicks that want to shoot everything. If these problem animals are killed the environmentalist will be upset and might spill their latte. If they continue and kill a needing familys cow, that family will go hungry this year.
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on September 06, 2012, 09:15:58 AM
Post by: washingtonmuley on September 06, 2012, 09:37:56 AM
Thanks for the info. Message has been sent.
Post by: arees on September 06, 2012, 09:48:56 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on September 06, 2012, 10:06:10 AM
Dear Governor Gregoire,
Please support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove all the problem wolves from the “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington. And rather than consider this a one-time approach, recognize that in these particular instances there are no other options. They have learned the behavior, it must be stopped no different than with problem bears.
I live in Eastern WA working with cooperators and have family that ranches in NE Oregon - has not the "confirmed" volume of attacks not increased dramatically within such a short time in both states just recently? You claim to be of Eastern WA stock growing up in ML. While that is mostly farm country and would not reap the negative impacts of these wolves, I hope you understand the impact to the livelihood of those that feed the nation, that grind out the often thankless, and always never ending jobs that many of the wolf supporters take for granted. Even worse, some of these groups feel that we're to blame and would gladly see the farmers and ranchers out of the picture (see Forest Service grazing permits).
I completely disagree with the state's management plan of finding a happy medium between wolf and non-wolf groups with the establishment of breeding packs. Regardless though, problem packs, without consideration of established groups, must be dealt with immediately. To kowtow to so called "environmentalist" or "conservationist" groups in regard to handling this issue gathers absolutely no confidence from this voter in regards to management of any wildlife. Please take the politics out of it, follow the science, and most of all, follow through.
Take into consideration that the individuals that fight the cause with emotion and without fact most likely are not on the front line of this. I would be more than happy to spread the canine wealth around to their backyards so all could "enjoy". It's a fact that we're short in numbers, inferior in dollars, and just too damn busy to spend the time or effort in the courts that these non-native pro-wolf groups do. How about we consider those that are directly impacted by the issue, not those that are emotionally driven.
Post by: Buckblaster on September 06, 2012, 12:34:17 PM
Post by: Buckblaster on September 06, 2012, 01:37:10 PM
It is the responsibility of the WDFW to actively respond to this threat since they are the stewards of our state's wildlife. Today it is cattle kills, tomorrow it may be children killed while waiting for the school bus. If you think this wolf issue is sensitive now, this is nothing compared to what will happen throughout the state if WDFW continues to allow these wolves to multiply while they protect these dangerous animals. This is just the tip of the iceberg so they better get these wolves under control real quick before this problem is too big to fix.
Post by: bearpaw on September 06, 2012, 07:47:36 PM
please send more letters... :tup:
(see previous posts)
Post by: RG on September 06, 2012, 08:07:04 PM
Post by: sebek556 on September 06, 2012, 09:24:30 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 07, 2012, 07:53:23 AM
please send more letters...
(see posts on previous page)
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 07, 2012, 08:18:45 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 07, 2012, 08:22:14 AM
I herd that the Cattlemans Association up here had a meeting with WDFW. I was told that one rancher brought two LIVE calves to the meeting that were attacked by wolfs. It showed how much damage the wolves do to their calves. I guess it was full of maggots etc. It really got the WDFW attention. :dunno:
Yes that is exactly right, the meeting involved cattlemen, county commissioners, WDFW personnel, and the injured calves.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 07, 2012, 08:50:07 AM
I herd that the Cattlemans Association up here had a meeting with WDFW. I was told that one rancher brought two LIVE calves to the meeting that were attacked by wolfs. It showed how much damage the wolves do to their calves. I guess it was full of maggots etc. It really got the WDFW attention. :dunno:
Yes that is exactly right, the meeting involved cattlemen, county commissioners, WDFW personnel, and the injured calves.
I hope it's getting the attention ( killing ) it needs now. Too many liberal politicians/WDFW screwing it up. Always gotta screw things up !!!
Post by: Happy Gilmore on September 07, 2012, 10:32:13 AM
Post by: NW-GSP on September 07, 2012, 10:54:10 AM
Did anyone post WDFW's press release that 4 wolves from Steven's Co. will be leathally removed?
Post by: Atroxus on September 07, 2012, 11:01:41 AM
:tup:Did anyone post WDFW's press release that 4 wolves from Steven's Co. will be leathally removed?
A new one? Or is this one the plan that was retracted after pressure from "conservationists"? At this point I won't believe WDFW about killing wolves until I see some pics of the dead wolves. :bash:
Post by: bearpaw on September 07, 2012, 11:16:08 AM
I put most of the blame for the faulty wolf plan on wolf biased biologists and personnel who have infiltrated western wildlife departments. Managers rely on the information they recieve from their biologists to make management decisions. A good example is the biologist in the Okanogan who claims every wolf spotted in any Okanogan GMU belongs to the Lookout Pack. This biologist appears to be misleading the WDFW in an effort to protect wolves. There are enough sightings posted on this forum to seriously question his integrity. I will fault managers for not replacing personnel who obviously push a wolf biased agenda.
The WDFW is in a tight position, they are being faced with the realities that they were warned about by hunters and ranchers, but that their own biologists discredited. They also have wolf groups looking for a chance to file a lawsuit for any reason they can find. I do think that Director Anderson has handled this situation as best that he possibly could. Kudo's to him, I doubt that many of our recent previous directors would have handled the situation as well. :tup: :tup: :tup:
If I was the director I certainly would be looking for an expanation (or resignation) from any biologist that provided faulty or obviously misleading info about wolves. I would also think that the WDFW will eventually revisit the Washington wolf plan as they continue to learn that wolves simply will not fit into many areas of Washington unless residents are allowed to manage them. Our WDFW simply cannot afford too many of these massive wolf hunts! Furthermore, I think many Washington hunters are going to get fed up with watching game management dollars thrown out the window on this wolf fiasco which the local residents are more than willing to take care of for free. :twocents:
Post by: bearpaw on September 07, 2012, 11:20:09 AM
More new wolf attacks found on cattle in Stevens County over the Labor Day weekend. The ranchers are losing at least $1000 with every attack and wolf groups say there is no proof it's wolves doing the damage. Many of you have read about the repeated wolf attacks on livestock in Stevens County. These problem wolves need to be removed.
LETTERS TO GOVERNOR
I have heard that roughly 15,000 letters have been received by WDFW and Governor Gregoire asking that wolf management be ceased. I also heard that not one letter has been received in support of wolf removal. The WDFW had suspended wolf removal efforts for the Labor Day weekend. Over the weekend, Washington for Wildlife (WFW) has sent a letter of support for wolf removal.
Hunting-Washington is sending a letter of support today asking that wolf removal be continued.
PLEASE SEND A LETTER
I am urging everyone who support responsible wolf management to take a few moments and send a quick email message in support of problem wolf removal.
Copy and paste this email list and your choice of messages below or make your own message and please do it now so you don't forget!
director@dfw.wa.gov
commission@dfw.wa.gov
commissioners@co.stevens.wa.us
Joel.Kretz@leg.wa.gov
Short.Shelly@leg.wa.gov
Morton.Bob@leg.wa.gov
Kevin.Ranker@leg.wa.gov
brian.blake@leg.wa.gov
Also please send your message to the governor here: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/ (http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/)
template #1
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I fully support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves that are attacking and killing livestock in Northeast Washington.
The McIrvin family has suffered significant financial losses due to these problem wolves. Thank you for helping these people.
Respectfully,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #2
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I wish to express my support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
It’s the responsibility of WDFW to respond to wild animal complaints including wolf attacks on livestock.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #3
Dear Governor Gregoire,
Please support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove all the problem wolves from the “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
Wolf groups don't care what happens in Eastern Washington because it's not in their backyard. But it’s important for the WDFW to remove all wolves that attack livestock in Washington before they teach other wolves to do the same. These wolves will have significant impacts on ranching incomes and local economies.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
Post by: CedarPants on September 07, 2012, 11:22:16 AM
Post by: Special T on September 07, 2012, 11:50:17 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on September 07, 2012, 02:01:36 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/)
Post by: KFhunter on September 07, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
made my own letter :tup:
Post by: Atroxus on September 07, 2012, 02:21:05 PM
Here is the release from Tuesday. State's gonna kill four! :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/ (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/wedge/)
Good news...if they follow through this time. I hope they actually do.
Post by: bearpaw on September 12, 2012, 06:32:56 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 12, 2012, 06:58:22 PM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on September 12, 2012, 08:19:54 PM
I heard on the street today that the WDFW inspected another attack by the wedge pack yesterday 9/11, haven't seen anything in print yet.
I heard the same info from a reliable source but I heard they went today to inspect the attack.
Post by: sebek556 on September 13, 2012, 09:27:39 PM
Post by: denali on September 14, 2012, 04:38:25 PM
By Andy Walgamott, on September 14th, 2012
Tensions are reported as running "high" between WDFW and the Diamond M Ranch following the discovery this week of yet another dead calf and two injured ones, including one "severely" mauled.
Steve Pozzanghera, the agency's wolf policy lead, says the latter calf will likely die because of its injuries.
He said wolves were responsible "without a doubt in anyone's mind."
It will be marked down as a confirmed wolf kill linked to the Wedge Pack, which runs between the Kettle and Columbia Rivers and up into Canada.
The other calf had an older injury, "a real nasty but healed wound from the base of the rectum to the udder."
It could have been injured running into or over a T-post, broken stick or something, but "given the situation, the location and injuries, this goes down as a probable," Pozzanghera said.
As for the dead calf, it was found on Wednesday up near Summit Lake near where Wedge wolves were blamed for July depredations. Pozzanghera said it had been almost entirely consumed. Its remains -- bones with bits of flesh and dried blood -- was still fresh.
A decision is still pending on it, but even as all the depredations begin to blur anymore, there have been at least 14 injured or killed cattle that WDFW has listed as confirmed or probable wolf attacks.
So far, despite the GPS collar on the alpha male, WDFW's hunters have not shot any of the four wolves they're targeting to thin the pack or break up the cycle.
Their presence over 21 days hasn't ended the depredations either.
So far the operation has been a failure -- though it might be argued that if it hadn't been done if wolf advocates had gotten their way with the governor perhaps more cattle might have been hit.
It's no wonder tensions are running high.
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2012, 05:23:44 PM
Turn the McIrvins and the locals loose on those wolves and the problem will likely be diminished. If this killing keeps up I expect to see the county commissioners considering other options. This has gone too far. This is exactly what happened in ID/MT until the people got fed up with the carnage. The pioneers knew what had to be done.
:guns: :mgun2: :bfg: :archery_smiley: :mgun:
Post by: waterdoctor on September 14, 2012, 05:41:58 PM
I e-mailed the Bio staff in Colville that it was looking like two packs to me as I had not heard of any of Schmidt's cows having any problems even though the wolves are there about every 10 to 14 days. I have not heard back from them.
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2012, 05:50:03 PM
Summit Lake is where the guy I know who was driving through broke down last summer and was surrounded by wolves howling at him. Scared the dickens out of him. Several people have reported them in that area, not surprised they run down to Hungry Hill. I have not spent enough time up near that area in the last year to know if the game herds are suffering, do you have anything to add about that?
There are some wolves over on the eastside of the wedge too.
Post by: bearpaw on September 14, 2012, 05:51:25 PM
More new wolf attacks found on cattle in Stevens County this week. The ranchers are losing at least $1000 with every attack and wolf groups say there is no proof it's wolves doing the damage. Many of you have read about the repeated wolf attacks on livestock in Stevens County. These problem wolves need to be removed.
LETTERS TO GOVERNOR
I have heard that roughly 15,000 letters have been received by WDFW and Governor Gregoire asking that wolf management be ceased. I had also heard that not one letter had been received in support of wolf removal. The WDFW had suspended wolf removal efforts for the Labor Day weekend. Over the weekend, Washington for Wildlife (WFW) has sent a letter of support for wolf removal. Members of this forum have also been sending letters.
PLEASE SEND A LETTER
I am urging everyone who supports responsible wolf management to take a few moments and send a quick email message in support of problem wolf removal.
Copy and paste this email list and your choice of messages below or make your own message and please do it now so you don't forget!
director@dfw.wa.gov
commission@dfw.wa.gov
commissioners@co.stevens.wa.us
Joel.Kretz@leg.wa.gov
Short.Shelly@leg.wa.gov
Morton.Bob@leg.wa.gov
Kevin.Ranker@leg.wa.gov
brian.blake@leg.wa.gov
Also please send your message to the governor here: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/ (http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/)
template #1
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I fully support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves that are attacking and killing livestock in Northeast Washington.
The McIrvin family has suffered significant financial losses due to these problem wolves. Thank you for helping these people.
Respectfully,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #2
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I wish to express my support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
It’s the responsibility of WDFW to respond to wild animal complaints including wolf attacks on livestock.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #3
Dear Governor Gregoire,
Please support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove all the problem wolves from the “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
Wolf groups don't care what happens in Eastern Washington because it's not in their backyard. But it’s important for the WDFW to remove all wolves that attack livestock in Washington before they teach other wolves to do the same. These wolves will have significant impacts on ranching incomes and local economies.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
Post by: waterdoctor on September 14, 2012, 09:53:05 PM
I am working out of state right now so will be a while till I am back, will be back for general elk. Chances of getting an elk around the place is slim to none. :'(
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 14, 2012, 10:02:08 PM
Glad to see it in print finally, I didn't have the radio on today so may have missed it.
Turn the McIrvins and the locals loose on those wolves and the problem will likely be diminished. If this killing keeps up I expect to see the county commissioners considering other options. This has gone too far. This is exactly what happened in ID/MT until the people got fed up with the carnage. The pioneers knew what had to be done.
:guns: :mgun2: :bfg: :archery_smiley: :mgun:
I would like to be considered a Local waiting in the wings.
:tup:
Post by: sebek556 on September 14, 2012, 11:06:19 PM
Post by: 300rum on September 15, 2012, 05:27:33 AM
Maybe it is in the thread? My question is, is WDFW (our tax dollars) reimbursing for these livestock kills? Is there any way to get out of the State how much, if we do reimburse? It would be nice to get a running total.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on September 15, 2012, 05:57:50 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 16, 2012, 06:06:57 PM
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 16, 2012, 07:13:19 PM
Why? Because we have 2 different opinions on opposite sides of the arguement. I could just as easily say, people that think ranchers are getting screwed out of cash, due to cattle loses "missed by a mile." I don't think the game department should have to pay loses, which get passed off on the hunters. It is all part of the territory. If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move. Nobody is forcing them to stay here.
:yike: :yike: :yike:
Did he really just say this :bash: :bash:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 16, 2012, 07:35:38 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 16, 2012, 07:41:52 PM
I would guess if Clive was still around this topic would have never made it this far! :dunno:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 16, 2012, 07:50:17 PM
I had a pretty good idea of where to find them this morning but then I left the shop at 4:15 to go wander around also. Didn't see another rig until after 8 am.
I would guess if Clive was still around this topic would have never made it this far! :dunno:
8 am. Must be WDFW, can't have overtime to do their jobs because the gubmint has no money.... :tup:
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 16, 2012, 07:52:36 PM
Guess maybe he filled the tank?
Can't imagine he would be using tax payers dollars for personal use.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 16, 2012, 07:55:57 PM
It was a Ferry County Fire Rig with exempt plates hunting Grouse! :dunno:
Guess maybe he filled the tank? Can't imagine he would be using tax payers dollars for personal use.
I was close I guess. But Ferry works 4-10's. Maybe working Sunday- Wednesday now... :chuckle: They gotta hunt grouse too, on our time. :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 16, 2012, 07:57:40 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 16, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
Wrong side of the line!! Unless he was playing a Mulligan! :chuckle:
I know, I know, it's a wrecked, used fire truck working undercover........ that's it. :tup:
Post by: bearpaw on September 16, 2012, 08:03:22 PM
Why? Because we have 2 different opinions on opposite sides of the arguement. I could just as easily say, people that think ranchers are getting screwed out of cash, due to cattle loses "missed by a mile." I don't think the game department should have to pay loses, which get passed off on the hunters. It is all part of the territory. If the ranchers don't like it, then sell their ranch and move. Nobody is forcing them to stay here.
:yike: :yike: :yike:
Did he really just say this :bash: :bash:
Probably the one vote to not remove the problem wedge wolves. :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on September 16, 2012, 08:10:02 PM
Bearpaw:
Maybe it is in the thread? My question is, is WDFW (our tax dollars) reimbursing for these livestock kills? Is there any way to get out of the State how much, if we do reimburse? It would be nice to get a running total.
Don't quote me, but I think most of the livestock losses throughout the United States are being paid by funds from the feds, state, and wolf groups. Bottom line, taxpayers (you and I) are footing a lot of the cost. McIrvins have not accepted any livestock funds, they say that would be agreeing with the wolf plan and they refuse to do it. All this killing is a total loss for them.
I don't think much, if any, of the livestock loss fund, is taken from license and tag sales. But, I am pretty sure hunters and fishers are supporting much of the cost of wolf management due to all the managers, bios, and wardens spending so much time on wolves rather than traditional game species.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 16, 2012, 08:11:58 PM
Post by: 300rum on September 17, 2012, 07:16:14 AM
Bearpaw:
Maybe it is in the thread? My question is, is WDFW (our tax dollars) reimbursing for these livestock kills? Is there any way to get out of the State how much, if we do reimburse? It would be nice to get a running total.
Don't quote me, but I think most of the livestock losses throughout the United States are being paid by funds from the feds, state, and wolf groups. Bottom line, taxpayers (you and I) are footing a lot of the cost. McIrvins have not accepted any livestock funds, they say that would be agreeing with the wolf plan and they refuse to do it. All this killing is a total loss for them.
I don't think much, if any, of the livestock loss fund, is taken from license and tag sales. But, I am pretty sure hunters and fishers are supporting much of the cost of wolf management due to all the managers, bios, and wardens spending so much time on wolves rather than traditional game species.
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 07:57:55 AM
The radio also said the NMcIrvins are asking the state to delist Eastern Washington so we can manage these wolves.
McIrvins claim the WDFW is dragging it's feet and the sharp shooters they sent don't even know how to hunt. One of the sharpshooters was asked what type of scope, if it was a night scope, he said it was a remington scope! :chuckle:
There was another comment something about them hunting meadows, I didn't catch it all. No wonder these guys can't get any more of the wolves.
This is turning into a very sad joke, even the radio was mocking this sad situation. :twocents:
Post by: Miles on September 17, 2012, 08:13:50 AM
One of the sharpshooters was asked what type of scope, if it was a night scope, he said it was a remington scope! :chuckle:
I wouldn't expect many wolves to be shot by that tool.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 17, 2012, 08:15:58 AM
One of the sharpshooters was asked what type of scope, if it was a night scope, he said it was a remington scope! :chuckle:
I wouldn't expect many wolves to be shot by that tool.
What? He sounds like a freakin' expert!
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 08:17:12 AM
ON THE RADIO SEPT 17
McIrvins have had 15 "confirmed" cattle attacks by wolves in Stevens County the last few months, they say their total loss is likely about 40 head. These ranchers are losing at least $1000 with every attack and wolf groups have said there is no proof it's wolves doing the damage. But the Sherriff Dept and WDFW agents have confirmed 15 cattle as wolf attacks.
LETTERS TO GOVERNOR
Roughly 15,000 letters have been received by WDFW and Governor Gregoire asking that wolf management be stopped. Hunters and ranchers need to send letters in support of wolf removal.
PLEASE SEND A LETTER
I am urging everyone who supports responsible wolf management to take a few moments and send a quick email message in support of problem wolf removal.
Copy and paste this email list and your choice of messages below or make your own message and please do it now so you don't forget!
director@dfw.wa.gov
commission@dfw.wa.gov
commissioners@co.stevens.wa.us
Joel.Kretz@leg.wa.gov
Short.Shelly@leg.wa.gov
Morton.Bob@leg.wa.gov
Kevin.Ranker@leg.wa.gov
brian.blake@leg.wa.gov
Also please send your message to the governor here: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/ (http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/)
template #1
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I fully support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves that are attacking and killing livestock in Northeast Washington.
The McIrvin family has suffered significant financial losses due to the 15 confirmed cattle attacks by these problem wolves. The McIrvins say they may be missing as many as 40 head of cattle, many dead cattle have not have been found yet. I urge you to please help these people.
I urge you to delist Eastern Washington so wolves can be managed.
Respectfully,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #2
Dear Governor Gregoire,
I wish to express my support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove problem wolves “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
It’s the responsibility of WDFW to respond to wild animal complaints including wolf attacks on livestock. I urge you to delist Eastern Washington so wolves can be managed.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
template #3
Dear Governor Gregoire,
Please support the Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife’s (WDFW) actions to remove all the problem wolves from the “wedge pack” that are attacking and killing livestock in northeast Washington.
Wolf groups don't care what happens in Eastern Washington because it's not in their backyard. But it’s important for the WDFW to remove all wolves that attack livestock in Washington before they teach other wolves to do the same. These wolves will have significant impacts on ranching incomes and local economies. I urge you to delist Eastern Washington so wolves can be managed.
Thank You,
Your Name
Address
City, State, ZIP
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 17, 2012, 08:21:24 AM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 17, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
Post by: UptheCreek on September 17, 2012, 08:35:31 AM
Post by: saylean on September 17, 2012, 08:41:42 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 17, 2012, 08:44:06 AM
It's just not Bill that is losing cattle in that area, there are several of his neighbors that have also lost a significant amount of calves and they are not as big of a operation as Bill's. Raising beef ,about 80% goes toward the cost of raising and 20% or so is any profit. When the wolves take away any profit margin the cattle ranchers are going to go broke. There is no way that the ranchers can document all the wolf kills as I believe that it has to be reported within 24 hrs? Also a pack of wolves can devour a calf within hours.
There is only 1 neighbor that has had a small amount of trouble, it's all on McIrvins from what the sheriff told me yesterday. Doesn't matter anyhow, the wolves need to be shot.
Post by: 300rum on September 17, 2012, 08:50:13 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 09:01:09 AM
I can't believe that the McIrvins just don't take care of it themselves. Maybe they need to take one for the team, just to get this out in the open. Eventually, enough is enough. I can't imagine them being prosecuted and if they were I think thing there would be an uprising of support.
They did a interview on the local radio a few weeks ago and said they could take care of it themself, but they can't afford the $10,000 to $40,000 it would cost them if they were caught. They are trying to do this by the law, but the law is failing them badly. :twocents:
It's just not Bill that is losing cattle in that area, there are several of his neighbors that have also lost a significant amount of calves and they are not as big of a operation as Bill's. Raising beef ,about 80% goes toward the cost of raising and 20% or so is any profit. When the wolves take away any profit margin the cattle ranchers are going to go broke. There is no way that the ranchers can document all the wolf kills as I believe that it has to be reported within 24 hrs? Also a pack of wolves can devour a calf within hours.
There is only 1 neighbor that has had a small amount of trouble, it's all on McIrvins from what the sheriff told me yesterday. Doesn't matter anyhow, the wolves need to be shot.
I heard one neighbor has 7 cows so far that he has seen that are missing their calves. The problem is that you can't find all the cattle that get eaten, this is big thickly vegetated country, this isn't like the open country of Montana.
Something must be done and done soon. Stevens County may have to step up to the plate and remove themselves from state wildlife management. People are getting fed up with the pandering to wolf lovers who live smuggly in their high rise apartments in pugetropolis dreaming about wolves and butterflies playing together in the meadows.
Post by: RG on September 17, 2012, 09:06:14 AM
I can't believe that the McIrvins just don't take care of it themselves. Maybe they need to take one for the team, just to get this out in the open. Eventually, enough is enough. I can't imagine them being prosecuted and if they were I think thing there would be an uprising of support.
They did a interview on the local radio a few weeks ago and said they could take care of it themself, but they can't afford the $10,000 to $40,000 it would cost them if they were caught. They are trying to do this by the law, but the law is failing them badly. :twocents:It's just not Bill that is losing cattle in that area, there are several of his neighbors that have also lost a significant amount of calves and they are not as big of a operation as Bill's. Raising beef ,about 80% goes toward the cost of raising and 20% or so is any profit. When the wolves take away any profit margin the cattle ranchers are going to go broke. There is no way that the ranchers can document all the wolf kills as I believe that it has to be reported within 24 hrs? Also a pack of wolves can devour a calf within hours.
There is only 1 neighbor that has had a small amount of trouble, it's all on McIrvins from what the sheriff told me yesterday. Doesn't matter anyhow, the wolves need to be shot.
I heard one neighbor has 7 cows so far that he has seen that are missing their calves. The problem is that you can't find all the cattle that get eaten, this is big thickly vegetated country, this isn't like the open country of Montana.
Something must be done and done soon. Stevens County may have to step up to the plate and remove themselves from state wildlife management. People are getting fed up with the pandering to wolf lovers who live smuggly in their high rise apartments in pugetropolis dreaming about wolves and butterflies playing together in the meadows.
:yeah:
Post by: Special T on September 17, 2012, 09:07:24 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 09:43:53 AM
Right now all the focus is on cattle, what is happening to our moose, elk, and deer?
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 10:12:55 AM
Here is a new on on cam in the sherman pass area.
Would you post the location and photo in the wolf count topic, thanks?
http://66.79.167.110/~huntingw/smf/index.php/topic,79244.375.html (http://66.79.167.110/~huntingw/smf/index.php/topic,79244.375.html)
Post by: CavemantheHunter on September 17, 2012, 10:31:30 AM
Post by: Killmore on September 17, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
There has been a lot of talk in the past and I can see people in the area talking that way again if this wolf situation is not dealt with.
Right now all the focus is on cattle, what is happening to our moose, elk, and deer?
Post by: Killmore on September 17, 2012, 10:38:17 AM
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 10:50:27 AM
Post by: Killmore on September 17, 2012, 11:02:10 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 17, 2012, 11:10:57 AM
Post by: Kola16 on September 17, 2012, 11:23:49 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 17, 2012, 12:00:44 PM
Post by: denali on September 17, 2012, 12:59:17 PM
I think Mr. Holmes did a good job disputing many of the assumptions that went into building the wolf plan, habitat models, prey base, livestock depredation models based on sheep ( we have little sheep grazing in WA)
the other thing that was disheartening was to hear how little the dept. knows about the population of elk,moose and even WT in the NE portion of the state?
Post by: RG on September 17, 2012, 01:13:49 PM
I picked up a copy of the September issue Northwest Sportsmans Magazine, in it Jeff Holmes interviews Steve Pozzanghera from WDFW. To any that are interested in the wolf issue I would encourage you to get a copy or the online addition if you are a subscriber and read it.
I think Mr. Holmes did a good job disputing many of the assumptions that went into building the wolf plan, habitat models, prey base, livestock depredation models based on sheep ( we have little sheep grazing in WA)
the other thing that was disheartening was to hear how little the dept. knows about the population of elk,moose and even WT in the NE portion of the state?
And heaven forbid that they might ask people who live. hunt, fish, camp, and work in the NE portion of the state about the wildlife populations to build up the WDFW knowledge base!
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 17, 2012, 01:23:31 PM
I picked up a copy of the September issue Northwest Sportsmans Magazine, in it Jeff Holmes interviews Steve Pozzanghera from WDFW. To any that are interested in the wolf issue I would encourage you to get a copy or the online addition if you are a subscriber and read it.
I think Mr. Holmes did a good job disputing many of the assumptions that went into building the wolf plan, habitat models, prey base, livestock depredation models based on sheep ( we have little sheep grazing in WA)
the other thing that was disheartening was to hear how little the dept. knows about the population of elk,moose and even WT in the NE portion of the state?
I stopped at the Barstow store yesterday and was BSing with the store owner. He said they don't nearly see or have as many deer as they did a few years ago. Remember the wolf Dale posted from Barstow this year, no deer............hmmm !
And heaven forbid that they might ask people who live. hunt, fish, camp, and work in the NE portion of the state about the wildlife populations to build up the WDFW knowledge base!
Post by: ghosthunter on September 17, 2012, 02:47:17 PM
Post by: waterdoctor on September 17, 2012, 03:29:17 PM
Post by: ghosthunter on September 17, 2012, 03:50:21 PM
Post by: sebek556 on September 17, 2012, 03:56:56 PM
Post by: CedarPants on September 17, 2012, 03:59:17 PM
When I talked to Jeff from the Colville office in May he said that they (biologist) we not allowed to carry fire arms, only pepper spray. If they have changed the policy something significant must have changed. :yike:
WDFW actually had a policy stating their bio's couldn't carry a gun into the woods????
That can't be accurate ....
Post by: waterdoctor on September 17, 2012, 04:04:19 PM
Post by: sebek556 on September 17, 2012, 04:25:44 PM
I heard one neighbor has 7 cows so far that he has seen that are missing their calves. The problem is that you can't find all the cattle that get eaten, this is big thickly vegetated country, this isn't like the open country of Montana.
Something must be done and done soon. Stevens County may have to step up to the plate and remove themselves from state wildlife management. People are getting fed up with the pandering to wolf lovers who live smuggly in their high rise apartments in pugetropolis dreaming about wolves and butterflies playing together in the meadows.
[/quote]
can we do this? where do I sign up?
Post by: bearpaw on September 17, 2012, 04:37:19 PM
Quote
I heard one neighbor has 7 cows so far that he has seen that are missing their calves. The problem is that you can't find all the cattle that get eaten, this is big thickly vegetated country, this isn't like the open country of Montana.
Something must be done and done soon. Stevens County may have to step up to the plate and remove themselves from state wildlife management. People are getting fed up with the pandering to wolf lovers who live smuggly in their high rise apartments in pugetropolis dreaming about wolves and butterflies playing together in the meadows.
can we do this? where do I sign up?
That is something that has been talked about in the past, don't know if it can really be done but if something doesnt happen, I bet it comes up as an option.
When I talked to Jeff from the Colville office in May he said that they (biologist) we not allowed to carry fire arms, only pepper spray. If they have changed the policy something significant must have changed. :yike:
WDFW actually had a policy stating their bio's couldn't carry a gun into the woods????
That can't be accurate ....
After learning how many wolves there are, they may have changed that policy, for safety reasons, watch the trapper in the video: http://www.king5.com/news/environment/With-wolves-return-state-caught-between-ranchers-wildlife-groups-168222836.html (http://www.king5.com/news/environment/With-wolves-return-state-caught-between-ranchers-wildlife-groups-168222836.html)
Post by: CedarPants on September 17, 2012, 04:56:54 PM
Post by: waterdoctor on September 17, 2012, 05:03:30 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 17, 2012, 05:20:20 PM
It's just not Bill that is losing cattle in that area, there are several of his neighbors that have also lost a significant amount of calves and they are not as big of a operation as Bill's. Raising beef ,about 80% goes toward the cost of raising and 20% or so is any profit. When the wolves take away any profit margin the cattle ranchers are going to go broke. There is no way that the ranchers can document all the wolf kills as I believe that it has to be reported within 24 hrs? Also a pack of wolves can devour a calf within hours.
There is only 1 neighbor that has had a small amount of trouble, it's all on McIrvins from what the sheriff told me yesterday. Doesn't matter anyhow, the wolves need to be shot.
Campmeat, It is happening on some of Bill's land but a lot of it is happening on range land. Anyway I wouldn't consider 7 cows coming back to the barn and not wanting to leave a "small amount of trouble". They won't know the actual losses until it's time to round them up. P.S. the sheriff doesn't know everything. :rolleyes:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 17, 2012, 05:27:31 PM
It's just not Bill that is losing cattle in that area, there are several of his neighbors that have also lost a significant amount of calves and they are not as big of a operation as Bill's. Raising beef ,about 80% goes toward the cost of raising and 20% or so is any profit. When the wolves take away any profit margin the cattle ranchers are going to go broke. There is no way that the ranchers can document all the wolf kills as I believe that it has to be reported within 24 hrs? Also a pack of wolves can devour a calf within hours.
There is only 1 neighbor that has had a small amount of trouble, it's all on McIrvins from what the sheriff told me yesterday. Doesn't matter anyhow, the wolves need to be shot.
Campmeat, It is happening on some of Bill's land but a lot of it is happening on range land. Anyway I wouldn't consider 7 cows coming back to the barn and not wanting to leave a "small amount of trouble". They won't know the actual losses until it's time to round them up. P.S. the sheriff doesn't know everything. :rolleyes:
The sheriff I know is one of the main guys that goes up there for all calls. But, I know he's more truthful than WDFW. Graber is the other "small time rancher " up there. But like you said, the gather will tell the truth. :tup:
Post by: Okano-gun on September 17, 2012, 06:01:42 PM
Post by: denali on September 17, 2012, 11:10:25 PM
and here: http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/ (http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/)
Post by: denali on September 19, 2012, 10:55:02 AM
Washington wolf attacks mount
By MATTHEW WEAVER
Capital Press
The wolves in the Wedge Wolf Pack are now dining almost exclusively on beef, according to a northeastern Washington cattle rancher.
"The game department told me they're nearly 100 percent beef in the manure piles," Laurier, Wash., rancher Len McIrvin said. "They've taken all the game in this area and are just living on these cattle."
There have been two more kills and two more injured cattle, which state officials confirmed to be wolf-caused, on McIrvin's Diamond M Ranch in recent weeks.
However, he estimates 40 calves have been killed, as evidenced by mother cows that are now dry.
"The wolves are killing about a calf a day or every other day right now," he said.
Dave Ware, game division manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, said efforts to kill several wolves in the pack are ongoing. The department increased the number of staff in the area to operate on several sites and increase efforts to keep the wolves from the livestock.
"We haven't actually been able to take a wolf, but we've been close several times," he said. "We feel we will be successful in the near future."
After killing several wolves, the state will evaluate the situation, Ware said.
McIrvin estimated the cost to his operation is approaching $100,000 in cattle kills, weight loss, injuries, extra labor and low conception rate. The department has $50,000 allotted for compensation to ranchers, $5,000 per ranch.
McIrvin has refused compensation, saying it would be akin to supporting the wolves' presence. He'd prefer to see the entire pack killed.
"The next step's to go out of business if we can't eliminate that pack," McIrvin said. "A cattle ranch can't sustain that kind of losses."
McIrvin said he still gets phone calls, with the callers seem to be evenly distributed between industrial support and avid wolf supporters.
"As long as it's not their cattle, pets or kids getting eaten, everything is great," he said wryly. "One woman in Seattle said, 'I love wolves, I'd just like to take one home to cuddle with.' I wish she would."
McIrvin blames the regulations for the complications.
"It's not the wolves' problem -- wolves do what wolves do: They kill for fun, support and hunger," he said. "We could take care of it, but when you've got an agency that won't allow it, our hands are tied."
As ranchers bring their cows in from open ranges and federal and state allotments and hunters begin to go out into the field, Ware recommends they report any signs of wolves, including scat and tracks.
Jamie Henneman, media relations representative for the Stevens County Cattlemen's Association, said eastern Washington cattlemen are concerned about developments at the Diamond M Ranch, since Stevens, Ferry, Pend Orielle and Okanogan counties have eight of the state's 12 wolf packs.
"The aggressive wolf behavior at the Diamond M proves wolves will attack cattle even when the weather is agreeable and wild game is available," Henneman said.
Henneman said the inability of the state Department of Fish and Wildlife to handle the situation is "not inspiring much confidence."
The association is advocating for immediate delisting of the wolf as an endangered species in eastern Washington. Henneman said the association wants producers to have the same discretion with wolves as other game animals.
"Cattlemen in our area regularly deal with other predators like cougars or bears without 'wiping out' those populations," Henneman said.
Post by: Special T on September 19, 2012, 04:39:58 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on September 19, 2012, 06:21:47 PM
"The wolves are killing about a calf a day or every other day right now," he said.
Dave Ware, game division manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, said efforts to kill several wolves in the pack are ongoing. The department increased the number of staff in the area to operate on several sites and increase efforts to keep the wolves from the livestock.
"We haven't actually been able to take a wolf, but we've been close several times," he said. "We feel we will be successful in the near future."
After killing several wolves, the state will evaluate the situation, Ware said.
McIrvin estimated the cost to his operation is approaching $100,000 in cattle kills, weight loss, injuries, extra labor and low conception rate. The department has $50,000 allotted for compensation to ranchers, $5,000 per ranch.
So now we are supposed to let a bunch of freaking morons from the Dept of wildlife waste our tax dollars by hiring Humanure to try to 'maybe' shoot a wolf?
What the hell is wrong with this world? Can we possibly design a more cluster-phucked approach to anything?
We had wolf populations in control, with little damage to other wildlife populations, ranchers stock and human contact.
Now, we have the three stooges trying to control the damned wolves, instead of VOLUNTEER hunters and trappers. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Good going Wildlife! Thanks a lot! How do you dip*censored*s look at yourself in the mirror each day? Unbelievable.
I will donate cash to the fund to defend anyone prosecuted for accidentally shooting a wolf. Screw this state.
:mgun: :mgun: :mgun:
Post by: RG on September 19, 2012, 06:31:53 PM
"The wolves are killing about a calf a day or every other day right now," he said.
Dave Ware, game division manager for the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife, said efforts to kill several wolves in the pack are ongoing. The department increased the number of staff in the area to operate on several sites and increase efforts to keep the wolves from the livestock.
"We haven't actually been able to take a wolf, but we've been close several times," he said. "We feel we will be successful in the near future."
After killing several wolves, the state will evaluate the situation, Ware said.
McIrvin estimated the cost to his operation is approaching $100,000 in cattle kills, weight loss, injuries, extra labor and low conception rate. The department has $50,000 allotted for compensation to ranchers, $5,000 per ranch.
So now we are supposed to let a bunch of freaking morons from the Dept of wildlife waste our tax dollars by hiring Humanure to try to 'maybe' shoot a wolf?
What the hell is wrong with this world? Can we possibly design a more cluster-phucked approach to anything?
We had wolf populations in control, with little damage to other wildlife populations, ranchers stock and human contact.
Now, we have the three stooges trying to control the damned wolves, instead of VOLUNTEER hunters and trappers. :bash: :bash: :bash:
Good going Wildlife! Thanks a lot! How do you dip*censored*s look at yourself in the mirror each day? Unbelievable.
I will donate cash to the fund to defend anyone prosecuted for accidentally shooting a wolf. Screw this state.
:mgun: :mgun: :mgun:
:yeah:
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 06:35:14 PM
Are cattle leases every year? or is there a longer term say 5-10 years for them? I think cattlemen giving up thier leases in droves might get some attention. did this ever happen in ID? Did the lease prices ever dropp considerably?
You've missed the entire point - this is one of the goals.
THEY DO NOT WANT CATTLE ON PUBLIC LANDS
This has been an adgenda for many years.
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 06:38:09 PM
Please tell me this is a misprint!
Post by: ICEMAN on September 19, 2012, 06:39:33 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 06:42:48 PM
I was up last weekend and they were singing so I'm not sure why this hired gun can't find them.
I would guess the Big 10 gauge and perhaps a few other folks who know the area could put a dent in them fairly fast.
Please just give me a green light.
Or better yet just turn the McGirvin's and Graeber's loose on them! That way those folks can maybe get some evens!!!
Post by: sebek556 on September 19, 2012, 07:31:25 PM
Post by: villageidiot on September 19, 2012, 07:36:47 PM
With all the hunters getting into this long range shooting I know they could find plenty of guys that can shoot a wolf at 1,200 yds. Proof again they don't want to kill anything. And yes they do want cattle off public land. They have already started with using the sharp tailed grouse, spottled lepord frog, sea going fish, spotted owls, and the list goes on and on. Nearly every cattleman has been restricted on using certain areas of his range because of some of these species. Eventually, at this rate public grazing will be history and beef will only be afforded by the rich. The uninformed masses will be happy but hungry.
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 07:55:32 PM
http://www.capitalpress.com/lvstk/mw-Wedge-wolf-update-091912-art (http://www.capitalpress.com/lvstk/mw-Wedge-wolf-update-091912-art)
Quote
Laurier, Wash., rancher Len McIrvin, pictured on his farm the morning of Aug. 23, brought in the herd of cattle behind them to protect them from wolf depredation on the range. McIrvin says wolves are attacking his cattle almost daily, and estimates the cost to his operation is nearing $100,000.
Quote
"The game department told me they're nearly 100 percent beef in the manure piles," Laurier, Wash., rancher Len McIrvin said. "They've taken all the game in this area and are just living on these cattle."
Post by: Kola16 on September 19, 2012, 08:01:02 PM
Post by: CedarPants on September 19, 2012, 08:10:02 PM
Today he made an observation that really put things in perspective. His words: "Back home when I was growing up, it was the Feds shoving the wolves down our throats while the state fought them tooth and nail. You guys here in eastern Washington ..... Feds delisted wolves but your own state shoving them down your throats. Tragic really"
Post by: silverdalesauer on September 19, 2012, 08:13:25 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/sep/19/landers-fires-blaze-does-wolf-issue/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/sep/19/landers-fires-blaze-does-wolf-issue/)
Post by: silverdalesauer on September 19, 2012, 08:17:39 PM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/sep/13/landers-wolves-make-taking-dogs-into-wild-risky/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2012/sep/13/landers-wolves-make-taking-dogs-into-wild-risky/)
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 08:19:20 PM
I see where each ranch can only get 5,000 dollars. No wonder McIrvin won't take the money. He's lost around 40 calves and could just about drain the whole states pot of money with just his losses alone. Also noticed that Ware from WDFW wants all hunters to report all sightings, scat, etc. I know for absolute posative because I have reported it myself that WDFW does not document all the sightings. One remark from a Federal Bio. to me was "I will put that in my bigfoot sightings file". I even took hair samples I found on a barbed wire fence where a wolf crawled under (snow conditions) and the bio never did a thing with it. So why would I believe they actually care one bit. They just want the public to think they actually care
With all the hunters getting into this long range shooting I know they could find plenty of guys that can shoot a wolf at 1,200 yds. Proof again they don't want to kill anything. And yes they do want cattle off public land. They have already started with using the sharp tailed grouse, spottled lepord frog, sea going fish, spotted owls, and the list goes on and on. Nearly every cattleman has been restricted on using certain areas of his range because of some of these species. Eventually, at this rate public grazing will be history and beef will only be afforded by the rich. The uninformed masses will be happy but hungry.
50 yards would be a long shot in a lot of these areas, it's not like Montana or Idaho where you can shoot across the canyon at them.
Some areas yes you could get a long shot, but mostly not.
The best, and perhaps only way to hunt them is to bring them to you. :yike:
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 08:23:57 PM
I see where each ranch can only get 5,000 dollars. No wonder McIrvin won't take the money. He's lost around 40 calves and could just about drain the whole states pot of money with just his losses alone. Also noticed that Ware from WDFW wants all hunters to report all sightings, scat, etc. I know for absolute posative because I have reported it myself that WDFW does not document all the sightings. One remark from a Federal Bio. to me was "I will put that in my bigfoot sightings file". I even took hair samples I found on a barbed wire fence where a wolf crawled under (snow conditions) and the bio never did a thing with it. So why would I believe they actually care one bit. They just want the public to think they actually care
With all the hunters getting into this long range shooting I know they could find plenty of guys that can shoot a wolf at 1,200 yds. Proof again they don't want to kill anything. And yes they do want cattle off public land. They have already started with using the sharp tailed grouse, spottled lepord frog, sea going fish, spotted owls, and the list goes on and on. Nearly every cattleman has been restricted on using certain areas of his range because of some of these species. Eventually, at this rate public grazing will be history and beef will only be afforded by the rich. The uninformed masses will be happy but hungry.
50 yards would be a long shot in a lot of these areas, it's not like Montana or Idaho where you can shoot across the canyon at them.
Some areas yes you could get a long shot, but mostly not.
The best, and perhaps only way to hunt them is to bring them to you. :yike:
And in some areas my turkey gun with a 20 inch is way too long.
Sounds like the Bacon Necklace just may work! :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 08:29:02 PM
I was kicking around this idea
http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-ksg-12-ga-18in-barrel-shotgun-ksg.aspx (http://www.impactguns.com/kel-tec-ksg-12-ga-18in-barrel-shotgun-ksg.aspx)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impactguns.com%2Fdata%2Fdefault%2Fimages%2Fcatalog%2F535%2FKSG_3357web.jpg&hash=8ec0a8346924a0ad5ec4fa1b0a3e4faec59c54ac)
Quote
This bullpup pump-action shotgun has dual tube magazines that can hold a total of 14+1 rounds of ammunition. The KSG can only set to feed from the right or the left. Once the magazine is empty, the operator must use a manual switch to select the other magazine. This may appear at first glance to be disadvantage but for many people who live in areas where shotgun magazine capacity is limited by law, this feature, or lack of feature as the case may be, could allow them to legally possess the KSG.
You could put slugs in one side, and buckshot in the other tube and switch back and forth
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 08:34:35 PM
sebek556 good on you for volunteering, I would also volunteer. But, most likely they will only contract for shooting wolves, we may have to be willing accept pay. This way it is professional hunting, not sport hunting.
I would use my .257 Wtby Mag with a Leupold scope and a semiauto 12 guage with buckshot. I can make killer (pun intended) calf in distress calls. :chuckle:
With my 75 gr hollow point boattails traveling at 4000 fps I can hold dead on a wolf from 0 to 350 yards. For a pack in close my 12 guage semiauto will make quick work. My experience at wing shooting combined with rifle shooting skills and extensive hunting experience are my resume to be a professional wolf killer.
Instead, they hire guys who think they have a "Remington" scope. :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 08:39:24 PM
:mgun: Problem solved....
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 08:41:31 PM
And maybe a few secret's up my sleeve!
Post by: sebek556 on September 19, 2012, 08:42:02 PM
Post by: denali on September 19, 2012, 08:44:18 PM
let me at'em :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 08:45:26 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 08:46:43 PM
I would accept pay, or pelt for payment if they must pay me :chuckle: :chuckle:
thought you might... :chuckle:
denali, you are killing me... :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 08:48:11 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 08:48:26 PM
I don't have to commute even
I only commute to get to the place up there. Then it's all Local.
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 08:50:50 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 08:52:55 PM
I'm all in.
Post by: CedarPants on September 19, 2012, 08:53:04 PM
there you go, just the few of us who commented on this page; wolf team six :chuckle:
Oh GREAT Bearpaw - Now Obumbles is going to take credit for removing the Wedge pack :chuckle:
Post by: SpringerFan on September 19, 2012, 08:54:18 PM
there you go, just the few of us who commented on this page; wolf team six :chuckle:
I like that!!!!! :tup: :tup: :tup: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :hello:
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 08:57:53 PM
I'll be up there come branding time to help brand the calves, and I will be recording the sounds to duplicate on my FOXPRO.......
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
That is awesome :chuckle:
I'll be up there come branding time to help brand the calves, and I will be recording the sounds to duplicate on my FOXPRO.......
The way it is going there may not be much to Brand!
Post by: sebek556 on September 19, 2012, 09:02:38 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
there you go, just the few of us who commented on this page; wolf team six :chuckle:
I like that!!!!! :tup: :tup: :tup: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :hello:
I can see t-shirts and baseball caps!
I used to have a little screen printing business, I made caps and shirts that said "Spotted Owl Mobilehome" with a picture of a single old growth log on a logging truck. I sold hundreds of caps and shirts, I still laugh at that.
Post by: Special T on September 19, 2012, 09:08:26 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 09:10:21 PM
Talked to a retired Plumber who lives on the Sheep Creek side he said the game herds are almost nonexistent this year and he lives there year round.
With the caption they just don't understand us Fluffy!
Post by: KFhunter on September 19, 2012, 09:12:39 PM
Or one showing the WDFW Bio huggin a wolf telling us he works for us! :chuckle:
Ohh that is good too!
something like this, but with the WDFW uniform and a wolf with the above caption like he's whispering to the wolf
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcRHvYsnzR3n9Fk3ZRs3NDEFig8E8TAE5tKFiitz0XGXGI-CDQwtZHa4vWc1&hash=6922f4c740623f35e91b48c7432ed9b345e2bce1)
Post by: sebek556 on September 19, 2012, 09:18:31 PM
Post by: grizzlyadams on September 19, 2012, 09:27:56 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 19, 2012, 09:48:24 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 19, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
Post by: Kola16 on September 20, 2012, 01:45:53 AM
A hat that said SSS on it would be awesome :drool: In fact, I think I will head on over to the Eagle's Nest in Stanwood, and have them make one for me 8)
I got an email back a couple days ago (I started my letter saying "whose side are you on").
Thank you for your note regarding wolf removal. I am most definitely “on your side.” I have been to the ranch and met with their personnel, the department officials, the media, and other stakeholders. We are doing everything we can within the present law to handle this situation. Cordially yours, BOB MORTON
State Senator
Post by: Killmore on September 20, 2012, 08:27:36 AM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 20, 2012, 12:26:47 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
Post by: sebek556 on September 20, 2012, 02:16:01 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 20, 2012, 03:21:28 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
We have a 6 month old half grown hound that loves to bark (very loudly). My money says with that pup along at my side happily barking, I would have a dead wolf by daylight. I don't think the wolves could stay away. :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on September 20, 2012, 04:54:43 PM
they are set in a red oval background with large white SSS lettering
Post by: bearpaw on September 20, 2012, 05:24:17 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 20, 2012, 05:56:49 PM
Wedge wolves topic of Colville public meeting tonight
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2012/sep/20/wedge-wolves-topic-colville-public-meeting-tonight/ (http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2012/sep/20/wedge-wolves-topic-colville-public-meeting-tonight/)
Posted by Rich Landers The Spokesman-Review September 20, 2012
At the request of Stevens County ranchers and commissioners, Washington Department of fish and Wildlife officials will present an update on their efforts to deal with gray wolves that have killed or injured at least 15 cattle since mid-July.
The cattle belong to the Diamond M Ranch which summers its livestock on a national forest grazing allotment in the “wedge” area near the Canada border between the Columbia and Kettle rivers.
Steve Pozzanghera, WDFW regional manager, will outline the agency's efforts in a public meeting set for 5 p.m. tonight (Sept. 20) in the Colville County Commissioner's meeting room (old Avista Building) 230 E. Birch Street Colville 99114.
See map:
http://tinyurl.com/clo2z4k (http://tinyurl.com/clo2z4k)
Post by: Big10gauge on September 20, 2012, 05:59:23 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
We have a 6 month old half grown hound that loves to bark (very loudly). My money says with that pup along at my side happily barking, I would have a dead wolf by daylight. I don't think the wolves could stay away. :chuckle:
Well, I'm headed up there again this weekend, I'll give it another shot. (pun intended). The sounds were actually dogs barking and coyote vocals.
Post by: bearpaw on September 20, 2012, 06:02:06 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
We have a 6 month old half grown hound that loves to bark (very loudly). My money says with that pup along at my side happily barking, I would have a dead wolf by daylight. I don't think the wolves could stay away. :chuckle:
Well, I'm headed up there again this weekend, I'll give it another shot. (pun intended). The sounds were actually dogs barking and coyote vocals.
Hope you get some photos or video to post....
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 20, 2012, 07:59:14 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
Figured you would be a player!!
Post by: Big10gauge on September 20, 2012, 08:42:00 PM
A recording of a lost hound dog played at midnight on a moonlight night in the middle of the problem area would also be absolutely killer.
:mgun: Problem solved....
Ha, I actually tried that about 3 weeks ago above Schmitt's place, just to see if anything would come in. Nothing. But it should work!!!
Count me in on Team 6!!!! 20 rds 243 wssm AR
Figured you would be a player!!
Come up for a beer!!
Post by: denali on September 20, 2012, 10:14:08 PM
http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/ (http://stevenscountycattlemen.wordpress.com/)
Post by: NWBREW on September 21, 2012, 01:10:29 AM
Post by: sebek556 on September 21, 2012, 08:57:33 AM
Post by: Kola16 on September 21, 2012, 12:15:05 PM
How close are these wolves to the Onion Creek Store :dunno: That is where my sister lives.
Post by: Kola16 on September 21, 2012, 12:16:22 PM
Letter sent!
How close are these wolves to the Onion Creek Store :dunno: That is where my sister lives.
I shouldn't say these wolves, I should say any.
Post by: bearpaw on September 21, 2012, 05:09:32 PM
I want to say that again Director Anderson has stepped up to the plate and has made a very hard choice, thankyou Director Anderson, you are doing the right thing with this pack.
:hello:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 21, 2012, 05:15:45 PM
Letter sent!
How close are these wolves to the Onion Creek Store :dunno: That is where my sister lives.
I shouldn't say these wolves, I should say any.
Guess, 15 miles +-. Somewhere around that estimate.
Post by: RG on September 21, 2012, 05:29:46 PM
Local radio says WDFW staff is out trying to remove the entire pack today.:yeah: If the radio is right, and I hope they are, then that's good news. Hopefully they assign the right person(s) to the job, like Wolf Team 6??? maybe?
I want to say that again Director Anderson has stepped up to the plate and has made a very hard choice, thankyou Director Anderson, you are doing the right thing with this pack.
:hello:
Post by: Kola16 on September 21, 2012, 06:53:26 PM
Letter sent!
How close are these wolves to the Onion Creek Store :dunno: That is where my sister lives.
I shouldn't say these wolves, I should say any.
Guess, 15 miles +-. Somewhere around that estimate.
Thanks 8)
Post by: Big10gauge on September 23, 2012, 05:44:23 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2FWolfpoop_zps830d4685.jpg&hash=4ec4275fbcbea18cb7b75c80a002173adba1799c)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2FWolfpoopingpost_zpsd573af26.jpg&hash=16f25493e31237f4fb449bd237f458d02515b32d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2Fbear2_zps49e964ab.jpg&hash=42c31007c8eb200e4f673e024f831cf3e8ceca09)
Post by: MuleySniper on September 23, 2012, 05:50:19 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 23, 2012, 06:03:55 PM
Well being a newbie at this wolf calling business I failed miserably at getting any responses during daylight, but at 10:30 pm on Sat past the Old Iron mine I did get some howling back, man what a hair raising sound when they cut loose! Talked to the McIrvins as they were rounding up the last of their range cattle and he is missing 40+ calves as of today and what I heard is Graeber's initial 7 missing has tripled in losses but I didn't have the time to talk to him. The last documented wolf kill was less than 1/4 mile from my place according to Bill's dad. I did find a wolf pooping post that had from very old (white) to only a week or less old. Oh and ran into this guy. The Helicopters and drones are flying now as 1 pack going down and 4 more packs to go in the N.E..
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2FWolfpoop_zps830d4685.jpg&hash=4ec4275fbcbea18cb7b75c80a002173adba1799c)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2FWolfpoopingpost_zpsd573af26.jpg&hash=16f25493e31237f4fb449bd237f458d02515b32d)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi365.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Foo99%2FBig10Ga%2Fbear2_zps49e964ab.jpg&hash=42c31007c8eb200e4f673e024f831cf3e8ceca09)
Big10, I've got pictires of poop exactly like that around Hardsrcabble/Storm King out of Republic. That's where Mudmans friend saw a real wolf about 2 miles from my expert poop pictures saturday.
Post by: Mudman on September 23, 2012, 06:18:49 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 23, 2012, 07:17:53 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 23, 2012, 07:24:25 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 24, 2012, 08:30:37 AM
Big10gauge, is that cattle hair I see in the wolf scat photo?
Post by: Big10gauge on September 24, 2012, 11:28:23 AM
McIrvin was interviewed by the Colville Radio again, he says he has not seen much for results yet on removing the wolves, he says talk is cheap. He had a lot to say, none of it included any praise, and he said that this is only the beginning, eventually every rancher and hamlet will have to deal with wolves as they spread across the counties. I expect he'll be proven correct by the wolves.
Big10gauge, is that cattle hair I see in the wolf scat photo?
Dale, I think there was some, but sure couldn't verify it for sure. Basically the scat was all hair. Just talked to a friend staying at my place and there are multiple helicopters flying around and also govt. trucks on every road up there, wolves will probably just head across the border where it quieter with that much activity going on. My friend just decided to go fishing instead of hunting today!! Thinking about going up there just to watch it all and maybe hear some shots!!! Also if a certain agency can call a certain rancher and let him know that a collared wolf is 200 yrds from his house and can pinpoint them within a few feet they must know the whereabouts of them unless the pack splits up.
Post by: GrousePointer on September 24, 2012, 12:16:47 PM
It's on their website and announced as of the 21st. This pack is a goner.
Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
Post by: RG on September 24, 2012, 12:22:44 PM
It's on their website and announced as of the 21st. This pack is a goner.
We'll see, I'm still thinking I'd be surprised if they actually get it done. For some reason they haven't impressed me with their capabilities....
I certainly hope it happens though.
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 24, 2012, 12:23:10 PM
You guys did see that the WDFW has announced that they are planning on eliminating the Wedge Pack right?
It's on their website and announced as of the 21st. This pack is a goner.
Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
If they can, it's a goner. There's a large chasm between hopes and gains. This is their first real experience with hunting down wolves. Let's just wait and see where this goes.
Post by: ICEMAN on September 24, 2012, 06:02:15 PM
Be alot cheaper just to open it up with a bounty on them IMHO....
Post by: bearpaw on September 24, 2012, 06:33:55 PM
McIrvin was interviewed by the Colville Radio again, he says he has not seen much for results yet on removing the wolves, he says talk is cheap. He had a lot to say, none of it included any praise, and he said that this is only the beginning, eventually every rancher and hamlet will have to deal with wolves as they spread across the counties. I expect he'll be proven correct by the wolves.
Big10gauge, is that cattle hair I see in the wolf scat photo?
Dale, I think there was some, but sure couldn't verify it for sure. Basically the scat was all hair. Just talked to a friend staying at my place and there are multiple helicopters flying around and also govt. trucks on every road up there, wolves will probably just head across the border where it quieter with that much activity going on. My friend just decided to go fishing instead of hunting today!! Thinking about going up there just to watch it all and maybe hear some shots!!! Also if a certain agency can call a certain rancher and let him know that a collared wolf is 200 yrds from his house and can pinpoint them within a few feet they must know the whereabouts of them unless the pack splits up.
I was thinking if I was hunting that pack I would follow that collar and pick off any wolf with that wolf, but until I was down to the last wolf I would leave the collared wolf out there to give away the location of the pack. Of course I am sure they are not all together all the time, but, I wouldn't shoot that collared wolf till the end.
I hope they actually have hunters who know how to hunt very well and not just marksmen, there is a hell of a lot of difference. :twocents:
I stand by my prediction that they don't kill many wolves until maybe winter, I doubt they have the kind of hunters that are needed to be very effective. I hope I am wrong, but just sayin... :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 24, 2012, 06:58:38 PM
Maybe set up a roadside stand with cool drinks and maps.
Post by: FALFire on September 24, 2012, 07:03:24 PM
Post by: RG on September 24, 2012, 07:20:29 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 25, 2012, 06:11:22 AM
Maybe set up a roadside stand with cool drinks and maps.
You forgot the little stuffed wolf toys
Post by: RG on September 25, 2012, 06:24:19 AM
Maybe set up a roadside stand with cool drinks and maps.
You forgot the little stuffed wolf toys
With the label on the side of them "beef, it's what's for dinner".
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 25, 2012, 07:10:18 AM
Maybe set up a roadside stand with cool drinks and maps.
You forgot the little stuffed wolf toys
LMAO !!
Post by: flatbkman on September 25, 2012, 07:33:49 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 25, 2012, 07:58:08 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 25, 2012, 07:23:58 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on September 25, 2012, 08:34:34 PM
Post by: Special T on September 25, 2012, 08:40:34 PM
Post by: dreamingbig on September 26, 2012, 03:25:53 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 26, 2012, 03:26:58 PM
Another 3 shot today. A little bit helps!
Very glad to see they are taking this seriously. :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: GrousePointer on September 26, 2012, 03:43:26 PM
Sent from my Lumia 710 using Board Express
Post by: Kola16 on September 26, 2012, 03:49:13 PM
Another 3 shot today. A little bit helps!
:whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo: :whoo:
Post by: denali on September 27, 2012, 12:16:37 PM
The concentration has had a compounding impact on the region’s big game. Not only are most of the wolves living on the region’s not-so prosperous deer and elk herds, but Washington Fish and Wildlife managers have been hamstrung in being able to monitor the situation.
“With one of our biologists working virtually full time all summer dealing with the Wedge Pack that’s been attacking cattle (in northern Stevens County), a lot of the deer and elk population survey work just isn’t getting done in northeast Washington this year,” said Madonna Luers, Fish and Wildlife Department spokeswoman.
this is a big concern going forward, what else are we not doing because wolves are soaking up a resource strapped state ??
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 27, 2012, 01:23:57 PM
Post by: Northway on September 27, 2012, 01:53:05 PM
I think if they only get a few 2-5 then we will have a strong argument that they will impossible to manage.
I'm curious about the strategy they are using......
Will they leave at least one collared wolf alive until the others are killed in order to track them? I'm not sure whether packs have a tendency to disband after a majority of the members are killed? Are they also using this opportunity to follow up on reports that there is another pack in the Wedge?
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2012, 02:50:39 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2012, 04:59:33 PM
Post by: KFhunter on September 27, 2012, 05:10:45 PM
They say the entire pack has been killed now, as of today.
Killing that pack off was a giant baby step towards public wolf management. I'm with Dale on this, I think we'll be hunting them very soon!
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2012, 05:18:04 PM
They say the entire pack has been killed now, as of today.
Killing that pack off was a giant baby step towards public wolf management. I'm with Dale on this, I think we'll be hunting them very soon!
Hopefully hunters are allowed to hunt wolves in the near future. I don't see how the state can afford to use helicopters every time there is a wolf/livestock issue.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 27, 2012, 05:18:35 PM
Post by: Jack Diamond on September 27, 2012, 06:01:30 PM
This "pack". ??? Interesting!!
Post by: Mudman on September 27, 2012, 08:58:36 PM
They say the entire pack has been killed now, as of today.Doubt it. :twocents:
Post by: GrainfedMuley on September 28, 2012, 03:46:09 AM
Save a wolf! Use vacuum sealing for best results.
You would actually eat wolf meat? For some reason that does not sound very appetizing. :dunno:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on September 28, 2012, 08:59:49 AM
Save a wolf! Use vacuum sealing for best results.
You would actually eat wolf meat? For some reason that does not sound very appetizing. :dunno:
Every time I go past the Mexican houses as you go into Swakane Canyon, there is a different pair of dogs there. Wonder where the old fat ones went? :drool: Guess some people think dog meat is good eatin'. :chuckle:
Post by: Cascade on September 28, 2012, 09:25:22 AM
Save a wolf! Use vacuum sealing for best results.
You would actually eat wolf meat? For some reason that does not sound very appetizing. :dunno:
Every time I go past the Mexican houses as you go into Swakane Canyon, there is a different pair of dogs there. Wonder where the old fat ones went? :drool: Guess some people think dog meat is good eatin'. :chuckle:
Mmmm, Mmmmm. Pooch barbacoa on homemade tortillas with guacamole! :)
Post by: pianoman9701 on September 28, 2012, 09:47:01 AM
Save a wolf! Use vacuum sealing for best results.
You would actually eat wolf meat? For some reason that does not sound very appetizing. :dunno:
If it didn't have parasites, you bet. The Koreans swear by dog.
Post by: bearpaw on September 30, 2012, 06:33:10 AM
Post by: Killmore on September 30, 2012, 08:01:13 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 30, 2012, 07:30:19 PM
I did see a helo floating around this morning . Big yellow didn't look like the normal fire scout's.
Post by: denali on October 01, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Wolf+attacks+cost+ranchers+million+year/7322744/story.html (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Wolf+attacks+cost+ranchers+million+year/7322744/story.html)
Post by: Curly on October 01, 2012, 01:06:09 PM
Post by: JLS on October 01, 2012, 01:08:37 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 01, 2012, 01:50:07 PM
Post by: Big10gauge on October 01, 2012, 05:50:25 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 01, 2012, 05:55:55 PM
Post by: bearpaw on October 01, 2012, 06:00:23 PM
Our canadian neighbors will be turning up the heat real soon, check out these headlines:
B.C. ranchers estimate wolf attacks on livestock cost $15 million a year
B.C. Cattleman’s Association calls on province to thin the wolf population in some areas
Large packs of wolves are feasting on the province’s cattle in alarming numbers, according to ranchers, who claim that mortality rates of cows and calves have doubled over the past year.
The B.C. Cattlemen’s Association estimates the industry is losing up to $15 million a year because of wolf attacks and is calling for a “thinning” of the wolf population in hard hit areas such as the Peace River and Cariboo regions.
Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/ranchers+estimate+wolf+attacks+livestock+cost+million+year/7322744/story.html#ixzz286BJSKYZ (http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/ranchers+estimate+wolf+attacks+livestock+cost+million+year/7322744/story.html#ixzz286BJSKYZ)