Post by: Jburke on October 26, 2012, 03:02:47 PM
Post by: FALFire on October 26, 2012, 04:03:09 PM
Post by: Huntbear on October 26, 2012, 04:18:32 PM
OH, the 243wssm and 25 wssm are both available here in Ellensburg off the shelf at Bi Mart or one of the gun shops.
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 26, 2012, 05:30:01 PM
In the end with the differences in use and expactains of each cartridges application. If you were to run them side by side out to 800 meters. The Grendel would be fishing and the 6.8 SPC would still be digging for worms.
Post by: Jburke on October 26, 2012, 05:33:00 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 26, 2012, 06:37:54 PM
I haven't really thought much about the short mags. Guess that's something worth looking into as well.
The 6.5 Grendel you can do yourself. Bolt, barrel and magazine and it's a done deal. The WSSM cartridges required machining to the ejection port or they need to be purchased as a complete upper or rifle.
Post by: scottcrb on October 26, 2012, 06:51:57 PM
Post by: FALFire on October 26, 2012, 07:37:47 PM
I haven't really thought much about the short mags. Guess that's something worth looking into as well.
The 6.5 Grendel you can do yourself. Bolt, barrel and magazine and it's a done deal. The WSSM cartridges required machining to the ejection port or they need to be purchased as a complete upper or rifle.
:yeah: Not only that but as far as I know, there are only a couple of gunsmiths allowed to make the WSSM calibers. Oly Arms, last I heard was not selling any of the WSSM specific parts to anyone for a home build job. This may have changed in the recent year or two :dunno: So it is something you will need to check into.
AR15Performance.com also has plans to build a 6BR and a 6BRX shoulder change which would be great options to the AR platform.
Keep in mind too that Oly Arms is now offering a 22-250 that has turned out to be pretty impressive. Black Hole Weaponry makes 22-250 barrels for the AR10 platform if that is something that interests you guys.
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 26, 2012, 07:50:06 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto2-16.jpg&hash=2447cdf9557a7592a3c7f9c52daaecdd7e811323)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto1-16.jpg&hash=be4d2a895ac68b774c8d35c5f50fb231b1f463a7)
The same Grendel above before I changed out the hand guard, went to a Rainer Arms upper reciver and ditched the JP adjustable gas block. Bad chuck medicine :).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FGroundhogs%2Fphoto1-2.jpg&hash=3abbd8177b9672e7ce4d52394dc01e4a5091cb67)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FGroundhogs%2Fphoto2-1.jpg&hash=f99252c6db6f4e007f152ebecad16e9f8d8d0602)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FGroundhogs%2Fphoto1-1.jpg&hash=b193fa828db91b1a5136d84e0fe7f85722d68186)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FGroundhogs%2Fphoto2-2.jpg&hash=aadabdba69620794044925300ca9a928e4fba7a0)
One of it's better 300 yards groups, using factory Hornady 123gr A-Max. It's a solid 1/2 MOA or better upper if I do my part.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto-47.jpg&hash=0b79f533372e8a6b390e688a9a88364ba669c22d)
This is one of my younger brothers bucks, shot with a 6.5 Grendel carbine at 493 yards. This was his first AR Build. Alexander 16" M4 carbine barrel. In the pic you can see the gas tube. He ordered the wrong hand guard(Carbine length) we didn't have time before the season to reorder and install a mid length but as you can see, it got the job done. The glass is a Vortex 2-7x with BDC. Which matched our 120gr Ballistic Tip loads perfectly for drop out to 500 yards. The glass has since been replaced.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_0304_3.jpg&hash=d864e49cd91ca9074e3f8e7f1ce30228b1f77878)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 26, 2012, 09:33:53 PM
Post by: JohnVH on October 26, 2012, 09:40:17 PM
http://www.65grendel.com/ (http://www.65grendel.com/)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2Fi-T3Gr5Cf%2F0%2FL%2Fi-T3Gr5Cf-L.jpg&hash=36ea539524725874b3107a0efb5e1e5d47828e3a)
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 26, 2012, 10:00:48 PM
Here is mine.
Sabre Defence Competition Special 6.5 Grendel 20" fluted
Spikes lower
RRA 2 stage kit
ergo grip
spikes buffer and spring
MAGPUL PRS stock
spikes trigger gaurd
She has a leupold mount on it right now and I am going back on fourth on what scope would be best on her :chuckle:
Post by: Jburke on October 26, 2012, 10:44:21 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 26, 2012, 11:11:59 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 27, 2012, 12:00:37 AM
The 6.8SPC at least has slightly more muzzle energy than a 30-30 Win.
I wouldn't consider using any of the above 3 rounds on bear.
Post by: Huntbear on October 27, 2012, 12:17:24 AM
Post by: Jburke on October 27, 2012, 12:26:43 AM
You should seriously reconsider using the 6.5 Grendel on bear. It has less muzzle energy than the 30-30 Win.May have lower energy at the muzzle but not for long from the stats that I have found.
The 6.8SPC at least has slightly more muzzle energy than a 30-30 Win.
I wouldn't consider using any of the above 3 rounds on bear.
30-30 WINCHESTER 150grain: 2390 fps / 1902 ft lbs energy
At 100 yards . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2018 fps / 1356 ft lbs energy
MODERN CARTRIDGES OUT OF A 16" BARREL: AT THE MUZZLE
6.5 Grendel 123grain: . . . . . 2480 fps / 1680 ft lbs energy
6.8 SPC 115grain: . . . . . . . . 2500 fps / 1590 ft lbs energy
6.8 SPCII Tactical 115grain. . 2575 fps / 1694 ft lbs energy
300 AAC Blackout 123 grain: 2315 fps / 1462 ft lbs energy
7.62.39 123grain: . . . . . . . . 2350 fps / 1508 ft lbs energy ***
50 BEOWULF 325grain. . . . . 1950 fps / 2745 ft lbs energy
MODERN CARTRIDGES AT 100 yards:
6.5 Grendel 123grain: . . . . . 2325 fps / 1476 ft lbs energy
6.8 SPC 115grain. . . . . . . . . 2253 fps / 1297 ft lbs energy
6.8 SPCII Tactical 115grain: . 2323 fps / 1378 ft lbs energy
300 AAC Blackout 123 grain: 1907 fps / 993 ft lbs energy
7.62x39 123 grain: . . . . . . . 2040 fps / 1136 ft lbs energy ***
50 BEOWULF 325 grain:. . . . 1490 fps / 1603 ft lbs energy
Post by: Jburke on October 27, 2012, 12:27:10 AM
Post by: Jburke on October 27, 2012, 12:32:12 AM
You should seriously reconsider using the 6.5 Grendel on bear. It has less muzzle energy than the 30-30 Win.Also if this is the case what caliber in the AR-15 platform would you recomend for it?
The 6.8SPC at least has slightly more muzzle energy than a 30-30 Win.
I wouldn't consider using any of the above 3 rounds on bear.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 27, 2012, 12:58:30 AM
None.You should seriously reconsider using the 6.5 Grendel on bear. It has less muzzle energy than the 30-30 Win.Also if this is the case what caliber in the AR-15 platform would you recommend for it?
The 6.8SPC at least has slightly more muzzle energy than a 30-30 Win.
I wouldn't consider using any of the above 3 rounds on bear.
An Ar-10 type platform would be a wiser choice for bear, especially in the more open country of Eastern Washington.
While the 6.5 has more down range energy than the 30-30, it never 'gains' energy from it's anemic ( for bear) muzzle energy.
Post by: FALFire on October 27, 2012, 05:26:50 AM
None.You should seriously reconsider using the 6.5 Grendel on bear. It has less muzzle energy than the 30-30 Win.Also if this is the case what caliber in the AR-15 platform would you recommend for it?
The 6.8SPC at least has slightly more muzzle energy than a 30-30 Win.
I wouldn't consider using any of the above 3 rounds on bear.
An Ar-10 type platform would be a wiser choice for bear, especially in the more open country of Eastern Washington.
While the 6.5 has more down range energy than the 30-30, it never 'gains' energy from it's anemic ( for bear) muzzle energy.
I tend to agree with Jim. Why use a minimum powered cartridge for bear in any case, including the 30-30 (certainly not my first choice) when there are way more options on the table. Can a 30-30 kill a bear? of course.......just not consistently or reliably shot for shot in 90 percent of hunting scenarios. I would certainly use it to protect ones self if that is all I had available but I wouldn't make the conscience decision to use it for a dedicated bear gun.
A caliber that does come to mind for bear, other than the .50 Beowulf, is the .450 Bushmaster or the .300 OSSM might even be a better option, both have factory ammo available and both used on the AR15 platform.
Post by: JohnVH on October 27, 2012, 09:08:08 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 27, 2012, 09:43:55 AM
Shot placement. I always laugh when poor shooters think you need a Barrett 50cal to down a little deer.
Some of us are sicko's ... :o
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 27, 2012, 10:58:27 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto_zpsc829db97.png&hash=0e7acf387601ae8294ff485ae641f441d405c9d8)
Larue of Larue Tacical, whom is defiantly a guy in the know how.Feltl it was a capable cartridge for big game and proved the same with a one shot " Bang-Flop " at 405 yards on this bull elk, all while slumming the 6.5 Grendel chambering.
http://www.laruetactical.com/ (http://www.laruetactical.com/)
Larue's elk write up.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/164444_.html&page=2 (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_219/164444_.html&page=2)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto_zpsc9053c4d.jpg&hash=de9eefecdf8c9bfc0f5485cce1ea616acb00c50c)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto_zps1ffe3ae4.jpg&hash=864bb97569bac9b653a55589c2324bd6e0fba47b)
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 27, 2012, 12:38:58 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 27, 2012, 11:37:05 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 11:12:58 AM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 28, 2012, 12:24:59 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 02:53:02 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
Post by: Blacklab on October 28, 2012, 05:53:39 PM
Post by: jackelope on October 28, 2012, 06:27:11 PM
Bunch of teeny-boppers sometimes...geesh...
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 07:33:26 PM
If I go with a longer barrel than I currently have will I need to replace my current handguard as well? Currently set up with the factory handguard and have the 16 barrel. I can stay with the same length but was thinking of at least to 18 to take advantage of the full potential.
If you go with a 18" most of them have a mid length gas system, I would assume your 16" barrel has a carbine length gas system and hand guard. The gas tube would protrude from the front of the hand guard while the issue would be cosmetic and the rifle would still be fully functional. My brother delt with the issue of a mid length gas system on his AA 16" Grendel M4 barrel and a carbine length hand guard before he replaced it. The gas tube was exposed for a couple inches but the deer died just the same.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 28, 2012, 07:35:43 PM
If I go with a longer barrel than I currently have will I need to replace my current handguard as well? Currently set up with the factory handguard and have the 16 barrel. I can stay with the same length but was thinking of at least to 18 to take advantage of the full potential.You don't have to, but you should. Ideally you want the gas tube covered completely. The gas tube gets hot quick and one less thing for brush etc to catch on.
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 07:41:14 PM
Post by: runamuk on October 28, 2012, 07:47:33 PM
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html (http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html)
its one of the resources I go to so I can read lots of opinions when considering a caliber, it is very much steered toward the benchrest shooter but tons of great information to be gleaned.
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
Ok, kind of what I thought after thinking about it more. What kind of performance increase am I looking at by moving up to the longer barrel? I rarely shoot anything 300+ but would like the option. How well will the 16 do at longer ranges? 300+
There would be no real notable performance difference between the 16" & 18" barrel at 300 yards, a big game animal isn't going to be able to tell the difference. Go with the length you prefer.
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 08:17:15 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 08:28:07 PM
Ok, well seeing as I want to hunt with this gun I think that anything longer than 18 would start to get bulky and harder to manuver while hunting. Just personal preference I guess.
One of mine started with a 18" stainless AA barrel that was cut down to 17" and threaded 5/8-24. It was also turned down to lighten it up. I would opt for a 18" myself, I like the feel of a 18" barrel with a mid-length or rifle length hand guard. I'm sure with all the after market parts you will find a combo that is pleasing.
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 08:30:10 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 28, 2012, 08:38:12 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 08:44:07 PM
Is there an advantage to having the flash suppresor over the target crown?
It was threaded for a GemTech suppressor and yes the crown is fine even after threading.
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 08:48:45 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 08:53:30 PM
So is there any performance benefit to a flash suppresor then?
With a standard A2 hider, no. Now there are others out there that act as muzzle brakes also. Recoil is minimal with a 6.5 Grendel and no muzzle device would make it more pleasant to shoot in hunting situations where one may not be wearing hearing protection.
Post by: dontgetcrabs on October 28, 2012, 08:55:58 PM
So is there any performance benefit to a flash suppresor then?
Only at night.
Post by: Jburke on October 28, 2012, 09:00:13 PM
So is there any performance benefit to a flash suppresor then?
With a standard A2 hider, no. Now there are others out there that act as muzzle brakes also. Recoil is minimal with a 6.5 Grendel and no muzzle device would make it more pleasant to shoot in hunting situations where one may not be wearing hearing protection.
Ok thanks. Just trying to get all the right info I need to not regret doing one thing over another.
Post by: JohnVH on October 28, 2012, 09:49:03 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 28, 2012, 11:09:29 PM
Post by: Jburke on October 29, 2012, 11:58:22 PM
Post by: JohnVH on October 31, 2012, 09:05:47 AM
752 yard antelope shot
http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?4378-752-yard-speedgoat (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/showthread.php?4378-752-yard-speedgoat)
Post by: Caseyd on November 07, 2012, 06:34:38 PM
Post by: Jburke on November 13, 2012, 05:17:26 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on November 13, 2012, 05:52:40 PM
So I changed my mind and decided to part ways with my 30-30 that I haven't really used, instead of the 06. Now that I have the cash I think this weekend or early next week I will order my barrel and bolt. For now I am going to just swap the barrel and bolt. Then as I have the funds available I will slowly start to build a complete upper for it. Then I can easily swap between the 5.56 and 6.5 anytime!
There you go, that's the way to do it. :tup:
Post by: Jburke on November 13, 2012, 06:09:06 PM
That's what I thought. Get's me started with what I want and can do the rest later. Piece by piece stings less than all at once. And since I am buying the expensive part first it will be easier to throw a few bucks into it every now and then.So I changed my mind and decided to part ways with my 30-30 that I haven't really used, instead of the 06. Now that I have the cash I think this weekend or early next week I will order my barrel and bolt. For now I am going to just swap the barrel and bolt. Then as I have the funds available I will slowly start to build a complete upper for it. Then I can easily swap between the 5.56 and 6.5 anytime!
There you go, that's the way to do it. :tup:
Post by: Jburke on November 20, 2012, 12:56:47 AM
Post by: Blacklab on November 21, 2012, 05:38:02 AM
Post by: Jburke on November 21, 2012, 09:21:59 AM
Congrats on the start of a long wait :chuckle:. But imo it's worth it :twocents: Looking forward to your updates an pics ;)Not so. At least not according to the company I bought it from.
http://www.tacticalammunition.com/main.sc (http://www.tacticalammunition.com/main.sc)
Has barrels in stock, various lengths but had several 16 inch barrels in stock.
Post by: mountainman on November 21, 2012, 03:45:48 PM
Post by: Blacklab on November 21, 2012, 06:06:18 PM
Congrats on the start of a long wait :chuckle:. But imo it's worth it :twocents: Looking forward to your updates an pics ;)Not so. At least not according to the company I bought it from.
http://www.tacticalammunition.com/main.sc (http://www.tacticalammunition.com/main.sc)
Has barrels in stock, various lengths but had several 16 inch barrels in stock.
I hope your right ;)
I was told 4 to 6 weeks, 5 months and one day later it came :IBCOOL:
Post by: Jburke on November 21, 2012, 06:54:03 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on November 21, 2012, 06:58:05 PM
Do you have a final list of components for this 5.56/6.5 build?
Post by: Jburke on November 21, 2012, 11:40:46 PM
Jburke,Well as of right now I am going cheap. I bought the barrel, bolt and a new handguard this last week. Right now that is all I have bought. I am going to buy a gas block and gas tube as well. I will eventually buy everything else needed to build the upper back up for the 5.56 to make it easier to swap out in the future. With not being in a hurry I can slowly buy the upper and all the rest of the parts I will need for the 5.56. But for now I'm just swapping out what is required for the 6.5 and will work on the 5.56 later.
Do you have a final list of components for this 5.56/6.5 build?
Post by: Blacklab on November 22, 2012, 11:14:25 PM
Called this afternoon and was told it should ship mid to late next week.
Fantastic! :tup: Your gonna love the grendel 6.5 ;)
Post by: Jburke on December 26, 2012, 09:37:33 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 26, 2012, 09:44:58 PM
Post by: Jburke on December 26, 2012, 11:25:25 PM
Post by: Jburke on January 22, 2013, 06:29:53 PM
So if they in fact don't charge the card until the order has shipped then My barrel should be on the way! I now have a stripped upper sitting on the bench waiting. Along with a gas block and handguard that will be here this week. Still waiting on the gas tube. Have yet to find a reasonably priced bolt carrier to pick up and since I'm not willing to pay $300+ for it I may be using the one out of my 5.56 upper for the time being. Finally some progress at least! :drool:
Post by: atc250r18 on January 22, 2013, 06:36:43 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on January 22, 2013, 06:39:25 PM
Post by: Jburke on January 22, 2013, 08:05:14 PM
What length of gas tube do you need? Maybe somebody could "hook you up".Carbine length tube. It's on order right now but who knows how long it will take.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 23, 2013, 12:26:40 AM
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676 (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676)
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 23, 2013, 12:51:21 AM
You will be fine using the bolt carrier group out of your 5.56, I don't know how long your wait for your gas tube will be but RAINIERARMS has them in stock for 12 bucks(Carbine length), Their located in Auburn. Make sure they send a roll pin if you don't already have one with your gas block.To clarify, Bolt carrier group denotes the Entire bolt carrier assembly, to include the bolt, carrier, firing pin and associated parts. You cannot use the bolt from your 5.56 bolt carrier group to run a 6.5 Grendel. You can use the bolt carrier, firing pin, cam, and key, but you must use the supplied 6.5 bolt.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676 (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676)
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 23, 2013, 05:25:20 AM
You forgot to list the bolt parts. :rolleyes:
Post by: Jburke on January 23, 2013, 10:47:32 AM
You will be fine using the bolt carrier group out of your 5.56, I don't know how long your wait for your gas tube will be but RAINIERARMS has them in stock for 12 bucks(Carbine length), Their located in Auburn. Make sure they send a roll pin if you don't already have one with your gas block.Since I have no idea how long it will take to get the original I just went ahead and ordered one from Rainier anyways.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676 (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1676)
Post by: Jburke on January 23, 2013, 01:07:47 PM
Post by: Jburke on March 03, 2013, 12:05:30 AM
Post by: Wea300mag on March 03, 2013, 06:32:40 AM
Post by: mountainman on March 03, 2013, 08:50:36 AM
:)
Post by: Jburke on March 03, 2013, 10:45:46 AM
Post by: Blacklab on March 03, 2013, 12:47:03 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 03, 2013, 05:04:00 PM
Post by: Jburke on March 04, 2013, 10:09:22 AM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 04, 2013, 10:16:00 AM
Post by: Jburke on March 04, 2013, 01:09:43 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 04, 2013, 01:13:41 PM
For anyone interested--I have a 7.62x39 Bolt I'll sell for $80 shipped. I bought it and then found out I needed a Grendel Class II bolt for my 20 LBC build.