Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: boneaddict on October 31, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
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Count down til Yesterday
2011
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2010
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2009
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2008
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and...............................THIS YEAR 2012.
filmed yesterday one year to the day, 20 yards from where I filmed him a year ago.
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Can I get those coordinates? LOL I had a nice buck that I used to see with the same story. Same day each year almost within 100 yards. It was always on the elk hunt for modern firearm though.
Great pics as always
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great pics. Old buck with poor genetics?
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All photos were taken within a 1/4 mile radius...... Notice in 09 he looked sick. He didn't grow eyeguards that year. I thought he was going to die that winter. I have yet to find a shed of his and I have looked. I have no idea how he keeps from getting shot as he is in a fairly high traffic area. He looked the most massive the first year I filmed him. Now I am going to go back to my 07 pics and see if I actually caught him another year.
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define poor genetics...... I had this thought when I saw him yesterday. He is ROBUST, has managed to survive everything sent at him, thats brains, and health. He could have been shot any given year as a three point except 09. I would imagine even as a big two, that big he probably would still have a target on his head in this state. Bare in mind a doe carries 50% of the genetics.......
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Awesome pics Bone!
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define poor genetics...... I had this thought when I saw him yesterday. He is ROBUST, has managed to survive everything sent at him, thats brains, and health. He could have been shot any given year as a three point except 09. I would imagine even as a big two, that big he probably would still have a target on his head in this state. Bare in mind a doe carries 50% of the genetics.......
Poor genetics in the sense of antler configuration compared to others that have made it to his age. No doubt that he is a big mature buck. Body size looks like a tank and has to be one of the smartest ones out there to survive that long. Most (including me) would assume that if a buck makes it to that age would have a rack to match.
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I had that coversation in my head while I was standing there waiting for him to give me a better shot. :chuckle: He amazes the hell out of me considering how big he was in 2008. I wonder how old he is.
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Yep, definitely bad genetics, all he's going to spread is 2pt off-spring so bone, you better lead the way and i'll assist with culling him and we can be rid of his evil genetics and allow the good 3pt and better genetics to continue to pollinate. ;) :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Thanks Bone! Was going to PM you a question on genetics this morning! YOU DEFINETLY ANSWERED IT! :tup:
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You have a good memory, or good organizing skills for your photos. Keeping track of all these bucks. :tup:
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You have a good memory, or good organizing skills for your photos. Keeping track of all these bucks. :tup:
:yeah: Thats a dandy 2pt.
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I have a question bone...How long did it take you to realize that many of the "big deer" you shoot are within close proximity to the same place at the same date each year? Is that how youtarget somany cool deer now? you know that i saw X deer on Y date so i'm gona try and take a photo of him again?
What book on finding deer/specifically mule deer have you read that best fits your ability to find them?
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Have you ever noticed that a young buck that breaks an antler when he's young often regrows a very similar deformity in subsequent years? Not always, but we've all seen it. That is not genetics. Could we call it 'antler growth memory'? That in mind, what if... When he was a two or three years old he was malnurished, infected with a virus or went through a severe dehydration period because of a hot summer. Genetics, and the strength there-in got him through, but now he's stunted? So, he's at least five years old, Quite possibly 7? I'm guessing that if you have a photo of him from 2007, even if you saw him in 2006, you may not have focused on him then because- After all, he was only a 2pt then. :chuckle:
-Steve
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Have you ever seen the movie series Extreme Bucks by the Eastmans? I think I saw it there first and then started to notice here and there. THere are also pockets that seem to always have big deer. Thats just from experience.
I have a question bone...How long did it take you to realize that many of the "big deer" you shoot are within close proximity to the same place at the same date each year? Is that how youtarget somany cool deer now? you know that i saw X deer on Y date so i'm gona try and take a photo of him again?
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If I were to guess Steve I'd say he was 5.5 in 2008, so thats about 9.5 now???
The 2009 buck I have always suspected not being the same deer. He was right there, about 300 yards over the hill from where he was filmed in 11 and 12. I thought that was an old buck that was about ready to die. He could hardly move from the rut. That was about 150 yards from 2008
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One thing I have always wondered is if the reason an area holds big bucks consistently over time, has more to do because of the habitat or, if it is just their "living room", a place they are familiar with and were raised at? I am sure it is a combination of both but I speculate that their "living room" has more to do with it than habitat or feed.
For instance, take burns for an example. I have watched a good buck area that burned off and the first year or so the deer are patterned differently, then 5,6,7 years latter they are right back in those same areas they were in before. The feed seems to be excellent throughout the burn, it just seems that the deer (or in this case bucks) like this spot more than the others.
Likewise, I have seen poor habitat or at least what I thought of as poor habitat hold good mature bucks, consistently over time. O.K. so here is a little thing I say to myself in the woods (found in proverbs btw) "Better is a dry morsel in a quite place than a house full of feasting, in strife".
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I used to think of it as like a prime fishing hole. The biggest and the best fish occupies it until it gets caught, then the 2nd in line takes over there. I am noticing it in does as well though. I happen to be monitorig the migration and critters are showing up in pockets where I see them, such as with Legend. Day before yesterday, there seemed to be NO DEER, then yesterday he showed up and just yards away in a little pocket a dozen does were hanging out. Where did they come from? Does it apply? They covered that a bit in that Eastmans movie as well. The rut will happen, then these deer will mostly disappear from this spot again :dunno:
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kinda like a bar at closing time , then there gone !
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Quite a sequence of photographs and very interesting to see how little these things change their habits... Great Pics.
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Have you ever seen the movie series Extreme Bucks by the Eastmans? I think I saw it there first and then started to notice here and there. THere are also pockets that seem to always have big deer. Thats just from experience.
Love that movie! Your pics start in 2011. Where's yesterdays pic?
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reply #4
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That photography progression is flat out awesome! :tup:
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I used to think of it as like a prime fishing hole. The biggest and the best fish occupies it until it gets caught, then the 2nd in line takes over there. I am noticing it in does as well though. I happen to be monitorig the migration and critters are showing up in pockets where I see them, such as with Legend. Day before yesterday, there seemed to be NO DEER, then yesterday he showed up and just yards away in a little pocket a dozen does were hanging out. Where did they come from? Does it apply? They covered that a bit in that Eastmans movie as well. The rut will happen, then these deer will mostly disappear from this spot again :dunno:
To back up in date to rifle season. ..
Our spot is a migration route. My buddy and my two sons hunt this particular ridge. Each of us has a set of trails we frequent. Two of us saw '13+ deer each' opening day. But we suspect that only four were the same deer. (NO, we did not mark them with a paintball gun!) Two of us didn't see hide nor hair of a deer. The next day, one of us saw 28 deer in about four hours from one spot, the others topped out at about 11+- each all day. The next day... The boys wandered but the hot-spot dwindled to just 6 or so. Later in the week, another wave rolled through. The weather did not seem to have effect on hoof travels. Saturday, my buddy shot a younger 3x4. That's the smaller of the four deer he's taken from that spot in five years. Sunday was my lucky day. I suspect that the scrawny 3pt, countless 2pts, unlimited doe's we saw that week will follow their noses back through the same routes next year. One day nothing... The next ... You lose count. Same routes to breeding ground. Same draws to be bread. Same areas to rest and winter.
-Steve
edit: Sorry, the discussion is waning away from truly talented photography, not to mention Doug's talent for not only remembering where, but 'who' he's re-focusing on. I am terrible at names and remembering faces! :bash:
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Bone, I was also thinking 2009 might be a different deer, he has a chunk missing on the top of his right ear, and I don't see that on the other photos! Your thoughts?
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I noticed that too, thought it might just be a twig or something else out of place? :dunno: :dunno:
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I heard he got tagged.......but it must have been a different two point......
Still alive and quite well
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At least till I tagout on him :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Guess who I filmed day before yesterday. 10 feet from where I filmed him last year. If I remember correctly, he had been showing up around Halloween, this year on November 4th. I was there on Halloween and didn't see him. I guess that was the last time I was in the area so he could have been there.
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Pic Bone I love this buck.
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Can't wait to see him.
Amazing he is still around. Should be 10.5, correct?
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Most conservative guess, at least 10.5 now.
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He must know you by name by now, huh Bone. :)
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THis is how he was when I spotted him. I got up on him and shot a bunch of photos of him bedded. I am contemplating putting one of them in my calendar. They turned out pretty good. As I was watching, a small two point walked by behind him. He was headed for a doe in the timber about 80 yards away. The big boy watched but wasn't too concerned. The doe in front of him stood up and stretched. About that time I seen a small three point headed up the hill behind me over to the same doe the two point went to. The three took a dive at the two, and the commotion got Legends attention. He stood up and made a bee-line over and then ran the three off over the hill, right into several more doe. So legend followed after snorting this doe. I then filmed them going in circles for a bit. I happened to get between the timbered doe and the bucks below. Pretty soon the one buck walked right by me, then the next buck and then Legend. It was pretty cool.
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I wonder if any hunters have seen him but never pulled the trigger thinking he is not a legal deer?
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Doesn't look like he's regressing. Maybe lost a little mass, but that might just be the angle.
What a warrior. You ever find any of his sheds, Bone?
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Very cool story Bone.....Glad you found him again this year!
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I haven't found any of his sheds. I sure wish I knew where he came from. That's the part of the story I probably will never know. Its sure a surprise every year when I see him. I found myself really looking for him this year and was sad or disappointed when he wasn't around. The doe were there, just some piddly little bucks. My heart lept when I spotted him bedded there. Pretty crazy
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Great work bone. Thanks for sharing! :tup:
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Not to double post in threads, but this was the little three point that got legends attention. I forgot that another three showed up as well. I wish a monster would have shown up, that would have been interesting.
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So if you drew that late tag would you kill him at 11 1/2 if he was there Bone?
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Probably not Lewy.
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Bone, I find this thread facinating!
But, it makes me question how much good giving a good buck another year really does. It seems once they are mature, they are what they are.....
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I suspect that Legend is truly a bachelor if you've never seen him arrive ~timed with a group of other bucks. He lives high, alone much of the year. Well past his prime. He's a late comer to the dance and will likely die of old age before too long rather than get shot. Like Bone said, he's got good genetics to have lived so long, to be a big bodied deer, but I suspect that his spring and summer range doesn't produce the nutrients required for top antler growth. Obviously he's not starving to death. He may also live where there's less moisture available in browse that may have stunted antler growth at one time. (Antler growth memory?)
-Steve
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if i was lucky enough to tag him he would get a full shoulder mount. :tup:
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Bone, I find this thread facinating!
But, it makes me question how much good giving a good buck another year really does. It seems once they are mature, they are what they are.....
Great point! The old saying goes... If you keep shooting young small racked bucks, you'll never shoot a big one. Point is, field judging goes a long way. We all look at the rack for legal points, but seldom during rifle or even bow season get enough time to truly give a buck creditable look to analyze more than the rack. If you don't let that young three or say 2pt with eye guards go you'll never know if he would have developed into that larger display in years to come. Bone has shown through his catalog of photos that Legend is one of those that just won't get any bigger, rack wise anyway, but is still passing on his genes every fall. Who says that his offspring bucks will have smaller antler growth. The doe has her part in it too.
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if i was lucky enough to tag him he would get a full shoulder mount. :tup:
Same here, that is an awesome deer and I would shoulder mount him if I got him down.
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Wow. Very cool buck. What's with the little kicker on his right? Just a few inches from his eyegaurd, or is that a branch?
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I believe that's his eartip.
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I believe that's his eartip.
Sorry, Jeez wow. Talk about being fixated on the horns. Had that been in the field, I would have shot his horns off. Jeez!
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Looks to have lost some mass this year Doug.
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Heck he is like your old friend now. That's cool that he has survived this long
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Great old buck :tup: Congratz bone on the pics.
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Very cool. I wonder how many times a tag holder has had him in their sights and passed because he's a big 2? If I were him, I'd find a big 4x4 to hang out with until the season was over... :tup:
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:chuckle:
I think he has too Rob. Age or drought???
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Looking at his most recent pics, he has definitely lost some, but we have to keep in mind that his body and head are so big that they probably make his antlers look smaller than they are. Usually when they regress from age though they lose height, length and spread, but the mass thickens. I think maybe some of his loss this year must have been nutrition. Possibly, drought. Possibly his teeth are so worn down that he isn't getting as much grub as he used to.. :dunno:
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Great pics! Also enjoy the discussion of how you locate them.
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I am sure he has some genetics spread out there...
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What a cool thread, fun to read from 1st post and beyond
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:chuckle:
I think he has too Rob. Age or drought???
With the average antler growth I've seen on the bucks taken this year I'd have a hard time believing its a result of drought. I think you are probably spot on with his age, and likely the result of his lack of mass this year.
On a side note, you might check that area out real good, his sheds shouldn't be too far away if you have found him in there for several years, he is obviously wintering close by. Last years set would make a great mount. :tup:
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Nice pics Bone
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curious to what gmu he's living in ?, I know an area that seems to have a bunch of nice two's. he's a cool old buck for sure.
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Last years set would make a great mount.
I agree! I'll probably find them in about 3 years. :chuckle: That seems to be how I usually roll with things like that.
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For some reason these last couple photos aren't showing up Bone.
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Photobucket was having some issues. Looks like they are there now.
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No show this year. I wonder what got him.....FIRE, wolves, old age, cats, or some lucky hunter :(
His landscape has completely changed. :dunno:
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maybe he is a day or two late due to all of the above?
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:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Hopeing to see him one more time! :tup:
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I hope he just took a year off and next year you freak out when you spot him :tup:
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I hope so Gringo
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I will say that in my experience.....when I'm hoping to see a buck that I saw the year before......I'm usually disappointed. There are a few of those I don't think will ever leave my mind.