Post by: doyourtime89 on November 03, 2012, 11:16:49 AM
Post by: romaknows on November 03, 2012, 11:25:24 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 03, 2012, 11:30:21 AM
Post by: hillbilli on November 03, 2012, 11:32:52 AM
Post by: HornHoarder on November 03, 2012, 11:35:27 AM
Post by: Wildsau on November 03, 2012, 11:48:52 AM
Gene-pool culing has been going on in Europe for as far back as anyone can remember, and they have soem excellent trophy racks on the Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Roe Deer, and Sitka Deer. Proof that this type of "harvesting" works. :dunno:
Post by: RifleRidge on November 03, 2012, 11:51:34 AM
Yes, absolutely rediculous rule.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: huntergreg on November 03, 2012, 11:59:36 AM
Post by: stickbuck on November 03, 2012, 12:00:32 PM
Any bull with a 1xanything more than a one, should be fair game. It is a spike on one side and becasue it has more than 1 on the other is more than enough reason to remove it from the gene-pool. We want to keep good strong herds and to leave one who can't grow good racks, in the gene-pool is the worst game management there is.
Gene-pool culing has been going on in Europe for as far back as anyone can remember, and they have soem excellent trophy racks on the Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Roe Deer, and Sitka Deer. Proof that this type of "harvesting" works. :dunno:
I don't agree with the true spike regulations. However, I would have to disagree with you. Bull elk with spikes do not mean they have bad genetics. Just my two cents.
Post by: RifleRidge on November 03, 2012, 12:11:21 PM
I have been hunting with my father and son in the colockum and have found 5 dead 1x2 and 1 cow. Some of the 1x2 i don't see how people cant see the forks. Some of them are 4in forks. I also found one that was a 3x2. It was still kicking on the ground. I hate to see it. People just need to make sure what it is before they shoot. IF YOUR NOT SURE LET IT GO!!!! THERE ARE A LOT OF STUPID HUNTERS UP THERE JUST SHOOTING ELK AND THEN GOING TO SEE WHAT IT IS AND THEN WALKING AWAY IF IT HAS FORKS. :bash: :bash: :bash: I dont like the fact that if you shoot a 1x2 in these areas and turn yourself in you only get an $80 ticket and a notched tag. They need to hammer these people just as if they were poaching!!! If you don't like the TRUE SPIKE restriction DONT HUNT THERE!!!!
:yeah:
Post by: Bigbuckoholic on November 03, 2012, 12:14:24 PM
:yeah:Any bull with a 1xanything more than a one, should be fair game. It is a spike on one side and becasue it has more than 1 on the other is more than enough reason to remove it from the gene-pool. We want to keep good strong herds and to leave one who can't grow good racks, in the gene-pool is the worst game management there is.
Gene-pool culing has been going on in Europe for as far back as anyone can remember, and they have soem excellent trophy racks on the Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Roe Deer, and Sitka Deer. Proof that this type of "harvesting" works. :dunno:
I don't agree with the true spike regulations. However, I would have to disagree with you. Bull elk with spikes do not mean they have bad genetics. Just my two cents.
Post by: Kowsrule30 on November 03, 2012, 12:33:49 PM
Post by: bear hunter on November 03, 2012, 12:40:33 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on November 03, 2012, 12:44:24 PM
If you don't like the TRUE SPIKE restriction DONT HUNT THERE!!!!
Thanks for the invite. I'll take you up on it. But that does not diminish the reality and concerns that people have over proper game management. Slob hunters are a reality, as are honest mistakes. The true spike rule makes both more damaging to management goals.
Post by: doyourtime89 on November 03, 2012, 04:24:08 PM
But that does not diminish the reality and concerns that people have over proper game management. Slob hunters are a reality, as are honest mistakes. The true spike rule makes both more damaging to management goals.
[/quote]
:yeah:
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 03, 2012, 04:38:38 PM
My wife's uncle has a camp in 328 with @ 12 guys.... He came back Tuesday for work and informed me their group found 4 dead... 3 1x2, 1 1x3... He said all would be really hard to tell even with really good glass and some time to glass in the open... Just really small points that were barely legal or questionable.... I will not hunt in a true spike area....
Sounds like a lot of people don't know what the heck they're doing. If I shot a 1x2, I would turn myself in and pay $80
It's a bum deal but it's better than a tarnished image and 250 lbs of steaks left to rot in the woods.
Post by: Curly on November 03, 2012, 04:59:38 PM
Post by: sled on November 03, 2012, 05:05:23 PM
I have been hunting with my father and son in the colockum and have found 5 dead 1x2 and 1 cow. Some of the 1x2 i don't see how people cant see the forks. Some of them are 4in forks. I also found one that was a 3x2. It was still kicking on the ground. I hate to see it. People just need to make sure what it is before they shoot. IF YOUR NOT SURE LET IT GO!!!! THERE ARE A LOT OF STUPID HUNTERS UP THERE JUST SHOOTING ELK AND THEN GOING TO SEE WHAT IT IS AND THEN WALKING AWAY IF IT HAS FORKS. :bash: :bash: :bash: I dont like the fact that if you shoot a 1x2 in these areas and turn yourself in you only get an $80 ticket and a notched tag. They need to hammer these people just as if they were poaching!!! If you don't like the TRUE SPIKE restriction DONT HUNT THERE!!!!:yeah:
Post by: coachcw on November 03, 2012, 06:41:57 PM
Post by: saylean on November 03, 2012, 07:10:50 PM
The true spike rule is a crock of Bs.
Post by: Rooster1981 on November 03, 2012, 07:15:51 PM
Post by: turbo on November 03, 2012, 07:19:56 PM
The problem is the policy. If you make a mistake you should be able to report it, pay a fine and keep the animal with a 3 strikes, and you're out rule. Washington is a stupid state! We f-up more than we fix.
Post by: billythekidrock on November 03, 2012, 07:20:43 PM
True Spike is a terrible rule, and was made that way for one reason. It is entrapment for the sole reason to make money. For guys like me age 31 that have hunted 329 for 18 years and my family that have been hunting in 329 since the sixties, we have seen many changes in this area. When it changed to spike only we saw tones of 2x2's left for dead over the years. My camp was very critical about identification and we shot many 1x2s over the years until the True spike rule change. I boycotted the unit in 09 and returned in 10 to harvest a true spike. In 2011 I made my first critical error as a hunter & hopefully my last. I shot a 1x2 and turned my self in. The game warden couldn't have been nicer, and told me these things happen and its not that big of a deal. He checked out my rifle went to the kill site took my tag we drug the bull about 1/4 to the wardens truck and loaded it whole. I was written a 80.00 ticket and went on my way . I thought They were going to throw the book at me and I couldn't believe how easily I got off. But as a result nearly fifty years of hunting tradition came to a end with my mistake and my family will never hunt up there again, or as long as true spike remains.
Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.
Post by: steeleywhopper on November 03, 2012, 07:35:11 PM
EXTREMELY STUPID RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: j_h_nimrod on November 03, 2012, 07:41:54 PM
I have been hunting with my father and son in the colockum and have found 5 dead 1x2 and 1 cow. Some of the 1x2 i don't see how people cant see the forks. Some of them are 4in forks. I also found one that was a 3x2. It was still kicking on the ground. I hate to see it. People just need to make sure what it is before they shoot. IF YOUR NOT SURE LET IT GO!!!! THERE ARE A LOT OF STUPID HUNTERS UP THERE JUST SHOOTING ELK AND THEN GOING TO SEE WHAT IT IS AND THEN WALKING AWAY IF IT HAS FORKS. :bash: :bash: :bash: I dont like the fact that if you shoot a 1x2 in these areas and turn yourself in you only get an $80 ticket and a notched tag. They need to hammer these people just as if they were poaching!!! If you don't like the TRUE SPIKE restriction DONT HUNT THERE!!!!
Can't say I agree with all said but THERE ARE JUST A LOT OF STUPID PEOPLE CALLING THEMSELVES HUNTERS AND CARRYING GUNS IN THE WOODS. If everyone was the hunter we learned we should be in hunters ed or at the feet of a hunting father, relative, or friend there would be no need for half the rules on the books, a thousand gamies, and I would not have to wear that damned blaze orange in the field. To damn many idiots out there anymore but you have to take the bad with the good.
I almost thought I shot an illegal buck this year and it was the worst feeling. When I jumped it at 30 yards I took a good sight through the scope and saw what I was sure were 3 solid points on one side so pulled down and dropped it. When I walked up on it I saw only a good fork with with a small sub legal third point and just about had a conniption. When I finally put a hand on the rack and gave it a turn the third legal point I had seen came out of the dust and I was vastly relieved. I do know that if that third point had not been there I would have still taken the carcass but do not know if I would have turned myself into the gamines or not. Wasting the meat is about the worst thing you can do and that never crossed my mind.
I do not see any true reason for a true spike rule but the game managers don't always make sense or follow valid scientific reasoning. There is as much opinion and personal preference involved in regulations as any real fact or truth. But the rules are what they are and if you are caught breaking them your panties can get in a twist quick. Knowing the way this state works so far it would not surprise me if this was a regulation put in place to generate a bit of violation revenue, it sounds like the herds in these locations are strong enough that a true spike reg is unneeded.
Don't really know where I am going with all this but just some thoughts.
Post by: martin1 on November 03, 2012, 08:03:03 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on November 03, 2012, 09:14:07 PM
My wife's uncle has a camp in 328 with @ 12 guys.... He came back Tuesday for work and informed me their group found 4 dead... 3 1x2, 1 1x3... He said all would be really hard to tell even with really good glass and some time to glass in the open... Just really small points that were barely legal or questionable.... I will not hunt in a true spike area....
Sounds like a lot of people don't know what the heck they're doing. If I shot a 1x2, I would turn myself in and pay $80
It's a bum deal but it's better than a tarnished image and 250 lbs of steaks left to rot in the woods.
Then you might want to go to these units and start a petition.... :chuckle: Maybe more will turn themselves in...
Post by: Rainier10 on November 04, 2012, 12:48:49 PM
I think it is a tough rule and sucks that some people don't take the time to ensure it is a true spike and therefore some go to waste. But after hearing about what happened this year it is good to know that at least some 1x2 and 1x3s are getting through even if a few are going to waste due to poor hunting.
Just my :twocents:
Post by: Curly on November 04, 2012, 12:55:57 PM
If that was the case, wouldn't there be guys willing to just shoot a 1x2, self report and pay an extra $80. :dunno:
Post by: KyleMB123 on November 04, 2012, 12:59:48 PM
Post by: Curly on November 04, 2012, 01:01:28 PM
Post by: Rooster1981 on November 04, 2012, 01:13:45 PM
Does a guy who self reports himself really get to keep the meat? I've heard that, but I wonder how true that is?
If that was the case, wouldn't there be guys willing to just shoot a 1x2, self report and pay an extra $80. :dunno:
No you do not get to keep any part of the animal, the elk if recoverable close to a road is taken to Yakima and processed to feed the homeless.
Post by: Red Ryder on November 04, 2012, 06:42:31 PM
Post by: Bob33 on November 04, 2012, 06:51:38 PM
If you find an elk or deer that has been shot dead and is not a legal animal can you at least take the meat, or will WDFW frame you for poaching if they catch you?Legally, you cannot keep any dead animal you did not kill.
Post by: JLS on November 04, 2012, 06:54:36 PM
If you find an elk or deer that has been shot dead and is not a legal animal can you at least take the meat, or will WDFW frame you for poaching if they catch you?Legally, you cannot keep any dead animal you did not kill.
And thus they would not be framing you, because you would actually be committing a violation.
Post by: howlow on November 04, 2012, 06:58:31 PM
Post by: Humptulips on November 04, 2012, 07:08:49 PM
Same argument for 3pt or better with deer. I personally have seen over 8 dead 2 points. Dumb!!
The problem is the policy. If you make a mistake you should be able to report it, pay a fine and keep the animal with a 3 strikes, and you're out rule. Washington is a stupid state! We f-up more than we fix.
:yeah:
Post by: Rooster1981 on November 04, 2012, 07:39:08 PM
I know the true spike makes it hard for the hunters but the herd numbers have increased drasticly since the rule thats why we got cow tags in those areas!!! and I think they increased the bull tags also
The only reason there is a cow hunt on the colockum is to raise the bull to cow ratio. Less cows = More bulls to cows + better ratio on paper.
Spike only started in 1994 by 1996 we were seeing 15-20 bulls per 100 cows and this was very exiting. By 2000-2001 we were seeing a large decline of the number of satellite bulls and there were just a bunch of old heard bulls running around with spikes. By 07-08 there were very few big bulls left at all most of the old bulls were long dead from old age and the number of spike's were on the decline as well.
Then in 2009 two things happened, the Yakima Indian nation received hunting rights for these two units and true spike was born. A coincidence not likely.
So starting on 2007 two years prior of the true spike rule change here are the hunting harvest numbers for modern firearm seasons. there is no muzzy season for these units and a very limited number of archery hunters. watch as the success rates drop by over 50% in only four years.
Bulls Antlerless Success Ratio #of hunters
2007- unit 328 126 25 7.8% 1931 Old spike only
unit-329 120 47 13.2% 1265 Compare to 2011
2008- unit-328 145 29 n/a n/a compare to 2010
unit-329 95 18 n/a n/a
2009- unit-328 107 22 6.5% 1997 first year of true spike
unit-329 75 19 8.8% 1068
2010-unit-328 57 21 4.7% 1580
unit-329 74 13 8.8% 990
2011- unit-328 89 13 6.4% 1591
unit-329 46 7 5.7% 928
As a end result the bull to cow ratio is at 4.5 bulls to 100 cows with a spike bull mortality rate of 82%. Something needs to change soon.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on November 04, 2012, 10:40:03 PM
If you find an elk or deer that has been shot dead and is not a legal animal can you at least take the meat, or will WDFW frame you for poaching if they catch you?Legally, you cannot keep any dead animal you did not kill.
And thus they would not be framing you, because you would actually be committing a violation.
Not correct if you decide to take possession of it and get caught, you have committed an illegal act. In order to "Frame you" it would have to be their idea/suggestion that you commit an illegal act.
Taking the meat/carcass from an animal you found but did not harvest yourself would be at the minimum Illegal possesion of game meat/animal.
Post by: C-Money on November 04, 2012, 10:57:43 PM
Post by: big wood on November 05, 2012, 07:28:46 AM
Post by: CedarPants on November 05, 2012, 07:36:02 AM
Basically the state is getting what they want. revenue and hardly any elk being killed. besides we have to build the heards up for the wolves to wipe em' out.
Comments in this thread would seem to suggest that "hardly any elk being killed" isn't what is taking place
Post by: big wood on November 05, 2012, 07:45:31 AM
Post by: stuckalot on November 05, 2012, 07:58:43 AM
Stupid rule, does however decrease overall harvest I believe.
Post by: big wood on November 05, 2012, 08:12:32 AM
Post by: CedarPants on November 05, 2012, 08:15:07 AM
Honest question, not trying to argue. This thread seems to indicate a lot of animals being shot and left to rot, which doesn't seem to indicate a reduction in harvest (just a reduction in reported harvest).
I don't know, I don't hunt there. Just trying to get someone's take on things
Post by: big wood on November 05, 2012, 08:52:58 AM
Post by: stuckalot on November 05, 2012, 08:53:28 AM