Post by: Chesapeake on November 23, 2012, 11:06:49 PM
I can't believe the crap they pull some times. They should just give us all our points back or something more even than rewarding those that didn't make the best of what was available.
Post by: Huntbear on November 23, 2012, 11:08:39 PM
Those that complained the most, were heard I guess... just like making the Margaret a general tag unit in a couple of years.. everyone complained about not being able to shoot a 300 class bull from the truck. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Ghost Hunter on November 23, 2012, 11:22:04 PM
Post by: Huntbear on November 23, 2012, 11:29:47 PM
That is just wrong. Don't agree at all. After the fact for those willing to HUNT and make a go of it. Hope they don't screw it up more and make a general tag of it. Might as well make a general tag in Loowit :chuckle:
The general tag is coming from everything I have heard... Personally, I think the WDFW is getting some kickbacks from some of the NEW landowners.. so they can sell hunting trips to the high lakes.. but that is my opinion... seems the WDFW will do whatever they can that will give them the biggest dollars.
Post by: MountainWalk on November 24, 2012, 12:00:18 AM
Post by: PolarBear on November 24, 2012, 12:33:45 AM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 24, 2012, 05:40:14 AM
WDFW changing the rules after the games already over.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 24, 2012, 06:00:58 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on November 24, 2012, 06:03:17 AM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 24, 2012, 06:24:50 AM
WDFW should just give the points back.
Rewarding those that didn't work hard enough to be successful just seems so Obama-ish... Guess I should expect that.
This would have been fine had they done it before the hunts started, or at least before the general seasons started . They knew them tags wouldnt get to hunt before the hunts even started. To pull this crap well after the fact is BS.
Post by: Chesapeake on November 24, 2012, 06:27:14 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on November 24, 2012, 06:27:33 AM
Post by: csaaphill on November 24, 2012, 06:32:55 AM
Post by: mossyhead on November 24, 2012, 08:33:26 AM
Post by: dscubame on November 24, 2012, 08:39:07 AM
Post by: Tman on November 24, 2012, 08:42:37 AM
Chesepeake, I contacted them a few weeks ago about it, it wont do you any good. Just gonna have to live with it. :twocents:
Post by: gotcha on November 24, 2012, 08:44:36 AM
Post by: Jason on November 24, 2012, 08:45:57 AM
Good for all those that get this oportunity. I will not be a hater, screw haters and go have a good hunt!:yeah:
Post by: sirmissalot on November 24, 2012, 08:49:14 AM
Post by: Wea300mag on November 24, 2012, 08:51:15 AM
Post by: GEARHEAD on November 24, 2012, 09:28:08 AM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 24, 2012, 09:16:56 PM
So Chesapeake, what exactly is the problem? Just wondering. Is it that others get extra time, and you got it done during the early season? Or is it that you got it done during the early season thus reducing your time in the field?
I would take a legal animal on the first day of the season if it presented itself.
Post by: bobcat on November 24, 2012, 10:06:43 PM
I had the Winston muzzleloader cow elk permit, and I do wish they would have sent out notification of the additional December season, before our regular season began. But, I'm guessing they wouldn't have had time to do so.
If we had known of the extra 2 week season in December, with all of the Weyerhauser land open to hunt, we very likely would have not taken the week off work to hunt that entire week during the October season, on the limited amount of state land that was available for us to hunt.
I am now unable to hunt the December season due to family plans. I just didn't have enough notice to plan for it.
But is it what it is. I won't be complaining to the WDFW about it. I'm glad others will have the additional opportunity to hunt.
Post by: nailbender on November 24, 2012, 10:11:43 PM
Oh cry me a river! Why do some of you have to complain about every damn thing that does not go your way. Some people did go out on State ground and gave it a solid try for days and still did not fill a tag, I being one of them. I will make a point to rub it in how easy it was to shoot my cow elk from the road come December 17th.
:yeah:
Post by: nailbender on November 24, 2012, 10:12:57 PM
I have a Margaret muzzy cow tag and I am thankful for the opportunity to hunt the last two weeks of the year. I complained to the WDFW about the access situation and asked for my points back. This extended hunt was their decision and, even though I would have been happy with my points returned, I'm going to go take advantage of it. :hunter:
I totally agree..! I did the same and would have been happy with points. I took my vacation the week I was suppose to hunt the Oct. tag and hunted plan b and plan c areas. Not in that unit. Disappointed that I and my father were not there during the tailend of the rut yes. Happy to have another chance, yes. I just wish I wasn't out of vaca time for this year...
What about the folks who depend on their income from us? They get to reap the benefits from this extention as well. They lost out on income I'm sure they were counting on. Now they too have another opportunity. I'm sure that the percentage of hunters who will get to go will be less than that of if it were on the origanal dates set. But still, its a shot in the arm for the local economy. Just a thought.. :dunno:
Post by: BENCHLEG on November 24, 2012, 10:26:54 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 24, 2012, 10:39:45 PM
I feel for everybody that had access issues this year. At least there was some state land for you to hunt. If i had a little land to hunt i would have hunted it.
Post by: BENCHLEG on November 24, 2012, 11:04:15 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 25, 2012, 05:48:36 AM
Yep... Mt. Adams hunt cancelled. Not like that extra time would do me any good, just hope i get my points back. Good on the department for doing something for the hunters for once.
So Chesapeake, what exactly is the problem? Just wondering. Is it that others get extra time, and you got it done during the early season? Or is it that you got it done during the early season thus reducing your time in the field?
I would take a legal animal on the first day of the season if it presented itself.
The problem is that I burned my time and tag on a crowded hunt in the same 1/4 of the unit that the archery guys and rifle rut guys had beat to all heck. I had a 5 day season. Not at all a better than average chance at a better than average bull. But I did the work and got it done with what I drew. It's always bean the risk of the tag. No complaints from me.
Now they go and give all those who still have a tag 2 more weeks in the snow in a prime time. That's the issue, What are they going to give me? I want my points back.
Don't get me wrong. I'm happy for the guys that get to hunt. I think that's great.
I'm just pissed that they are giving some of the tag holders a prime two weeks while the rest of us get the shaft.
But in the end I got an elk as usual so I can see how the non-killers would think I'm whining. They probably don't understand a quality hunt over just filling a tag.
Post by: dscubame on November 25, 2012, 07:51:07 AM
Post by: Wea300mag on November 25, 2012, 07:57:03 AM
Quote
What are they going to give me? I want my points back.
You filled your tag, how can you expect more than that? :dunno:
Post by: gotcha on November 25, 2012, 08:44:54 AM
Post by: blindpig on November 25, 2012, 08:55:58 AM
Post by: nailbender on November 25, 2012, 11:14:18 AM
:cryriver:
:yeah:
Post by: Whitpirate on November 25, 2012, 03:03:33 PM
Grow up.
Post by: cem3434 on November 25, 2012, 03:39:36 PM
At least for me I got a decent bull. Some tag holders probably got cows or rag horns since the Wednesday late season opener. Some of them will probably get home from camp tomorrow and find the letter having already filled their tag. I'm calling them Monday to give them an ear full. I want my points back. Clearly I'm not getting the same opportunity as the other tag holders.
WDFW changing the rules after the games already over.
You pulled the trigger and ended your hunt, not WDFW. Now you want your points back? The Margaret isnt a quality hunt anymore for a reason, so I would think that a hunter would be satisfied with any elk harvested.
Good luck to the other guys that are able to get some additional hunting in due to WDFW trying to do what they think is right.
Post by: piled-up on November 25, 2012, 03:46:10 PM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 25, 2012, 07:30:56 PM
If it was for toutle at least i could have spent the whole time hunting as there is open areas to hunt even when the tree farm is closed. I really could care less about the antlerless points. I only applied for the antlerless so my son could increase his odds of drawing a cow tag. I may not even fill mine. The coweeman herd has been hammered.
Post by: Wea300mag on November 25, 2012, 07:36:29 PM
I think my 14 points were wasted... I used 14 quality elk points on a hunt that i couldn't hunt.
Have you called or emailed the WDFW and explained your situation?
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 25, 2012, 08:13:45 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 25, 2012, 08:15:35 PM
I was happy to pull the trigger on a crowded beat down five day hunt restricted to the NE corner due to fire danger shutdowns. It was more crowded up there than the rifle deer opener. 84 tags all stuck in the backcountry. I'm not happy to find out after the fact that I pulled the trigger on a 2 week hunt in December.
You guys just don't get it cause your in the 90% of guys that create the 15% elk success rate in Washington.
I'm not saying dont give the guys that still have tags more opportunity. I'm just saying they should compensate all of us. We all were dealt the same dirty hand. I'd be happy with points for those that don't have tags and the extension for the guys that have tags.
Post by: Ridgeratt on November 25, 2012, 08:16:37 PM
So if you were to buy a powerball ticket and not get drawn are you going to ask for your money back as well?
Ya roll the dice and take your chances!!!
Post by: Wea300mag on November 25, 2012, 08:18:08 PM
Yes... They said we have to wait until the end of the season before they review the hunts and the point restoration.
That's the same line they gave me. A few weeks later I had a new Margaret Muzzy Cow permit for late Dec.
Post by: cem3434 on November 25, 2012, 08:34:53 PM
I'm at a loss for how to explain to a bunch of guys that maybe get an elk every 4 or 5 years that "just happy to get an elk" isn't what I put in for the Margaret unit for. I'd feel like an elk hunting failure if I only got an elk every 4 or 5 years. That's fine for a lot of folks, but not for me.
I was happy to pull the trigger on a crowded beat down five day hunt restricted to the NE corner due to fire danger shutdowns. It was more crowded up there than the rifle deer opener. 84 tags all stuck in the backcountry. I'm not happy to find out after the fact that I pulled the trigger on a 2 week hunt in December.
You guys just don't get it cause your in the 90% of guys that create the 15% elk success rate in Washington.
I'm not saying dont give the guys that still have tags more opportunity. I'm just saying they should compensate all of us. We all were dealt the same dirty hand. I'd be happy with points for those that don't have tags and the extension for the guys that have tags.
Let me get this straight, you harvested a bull with the permit earlier in the season and you still want your points back because you don't get to hunt the late season that WDFW just added? If I'm understanding you correctly, you will never get you're points back.
The hunt is not a quality hunt anymore for a reason. Are you really suggesting that you would have passed on the bull you harvested if you would have been made aware of the added season earlier?
Post by: grundy53 on November 25, 2012, 08:41:14 PM
I'm at a loss for how to explain to a bunch of guys that maybe get an elk every 4 or 5 years that "just happy to get an elk" isn't what I put in for the Margaret unit for. I'd feel like an elk hunting failure if I only got an elk every 4 or 5 years. That's fine for a lot of folks, but not for me.
I was happy to pull the trigger on a crowded beat down five day hunt restricted to the NE corner due to fire danger shutdowns. It was more crowded up there than the rifle deer opener. 84 tags all stuck in the backcountry. I'm not happy to find out after the fact that I pulled the trigger on a 2 week hunt in December.
You guys just don't get it cause your in the 90% of guys that create the 15% elk success rate in Washington.
I'm not saying dont give the guys that still have tags more opportunity. I'm just saying they should compensate all of us. We all were dealt the same dirty hand. I'd be happy with points for those that don't have tags and the extension for the guys that have tags.
I've killed a branched bull every year for the past 5 years and I still think you are a cry baby. It's not even a quality permit. Yet you act like it was supposed to be like a blues tag. Get over it. You shot a bull. If you weren't happy with the bull you shot that's YOUR fault, you shouldn't have pulled the trigger.
Post by: dscubame on November 26, 2012, 10:53:15 AM
WOW!
So if you were to buy a powerball ticket and not get drawn are you going to ask for your money back as well?
Ya roll the dice and take your chances!!!
:tup:
Post by: Chesapeake on November 26, 2012, 11:24:28 AM
First thanks to those who've had non-negative thoughtful comments dispite dissagreeing with me. Yeah I know its the web. :)
CEM3434, Yes absolutely I would have passed on the bull I took had I been looking forward to hunting it the last 2 weeks of December. I likely would have just stayed home and saved my vacation time for December. I've hunted muzzy for over a decade. I experienced the years when the late muzzy seasons went well into December in some of the better units. The years before they cut them back to the end of November to reduce the muzzy elk harvest in those units. I know all to well how good the hunting can be when the snow pushes the animals down and there is good tracking snow. Snow makes elk hunters very happy. Late December snow is almost a given.
Muzzy bull in Margaret the last 2 weeks of December would be a great bull tag. Arguably one of the best tags offered on the SW side of the state for a muzzy guy(not that you couldnt make a similar snow tag in several of the units). In my mind no doubt that would be a "Quality" tag. A great chance at the best Margaret has to offer. Far greater than the Oct. 6-12 hunt I had.
So the guys that still happen to have a tag get a shot at a "Quality Margaret hunt", while those of us who happen to have filled our tags get nothing.
This conversation isnt about the cow tags. Thats a grocery run. I wouldnt be concerned about giving guys an extended grocery run over those of us that have the freezer full already. There is no large disparity between the quality difference on a cow tag. So for all you guys commenting about cow tags. This conversation doesnt involve you. One more time, I'm not saying "dont give out the extended hunt". I'm saying "give out the extended hunt for those with tags, give back the points for those without tags".
I kind of feel for the WDFW guys. Their message boxes are full, they are getting swamped with phone calls over all this, and they have opened a giant bag of worms. Now next year and for years to follow whenever there is fire closures folks will expect these points returns and season extensions.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 26, 2012, 11:27:59 AM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 26, 2012, 11:38:44 AM
What did you want from this thread? :dunno:
What does anyone want from any thread????
Thoughtful conversation and discusion from all points of view was what I was looking for. I got it to about the degree expected. I know its alot to ask. I'm aware of the audience and expected many wouldnt agree with me. I understand that.
Post by: dscubame on November 26, 2012, 03:25:53 PM
Post by: Curly on November 26, 2012, 03:36:40 PM
I am happy for those guys who now get the opportunity to hunt it.
:yeah:
I'm fairly disgusted with WDFW on pretty much every issue these days. But WDFW can't control the weather, or the private timber company's closing of the lands. So, I think it is a good thing that they are giving the permit guys some more time.
I see Chesapeake's complaint too though, but I wouldn't go as far as to agree that he should get points back. :sry:
Post by: Chesapeake on November 26, 2012, 05:10:12 PM
So lets look at this another way. They are offering "points restoration" for some situations, and "extended hunts" for others where they can.
They offered me the extended hunt because they didnt look to see who filled tags. They just offered all the tag holders the same deal. So I could assume that for situations where they offered "points restoration" due to not being able to offer an extended hunt, both the folks that have tagged elk, and those that have not would all get their points restored.
So in the "points restoration" situation having tagged an elk wouldnt affect who of the permit holders got to recieve the "compensation".
Only in the "extended hunt" situation does one group of permit holders get compensated while the other does not, based purely on if you have filled your elk tag.
Maybe by explaining it that way some folks can understand my standpoint of "uneven compensation".
I too am pleased that folks get more hunting time and that WDFW worked with Wyco to make it happen. :tup:
Post by: nailbender on November 26, 2012, 06:34:14 PM
You didn't have to hunt the tiny area that was public.. you choose to do so and were successful. Congrats. But No, you shouldn't get a refund with your points.. as they extended the season for all recipients of the permits effected, you included. Bottom line is you notched your tag... no do overs.
Post by: bowhunterty on November 26, 2012, 06:50:10 PM
Post by: mtman on November 26, 2012, 06:50:29 PM
Post by: bowhunterty on November 26, 2012, 06:56:04 PM
Post by: mtman on November 26, 2012, 06:59:52 PM
Post by: elkfins on November 26, 2012, 07:03:36 PM
So the guys that still happen to have a tag get a shot at a "Quality Margaret hunt", while those of us who happen to have filled our tags get nothing.This whole thread makes you sound like a spoiled child but this particular quote is the icing on the cake.
umm... you filled your tag but got nothing??? What happened to the bull you filled your tag on? that's nothing?
Sure, it sucks the land was closed when your permit hunt was scheduled but you should've done your homework and realized that was a possiblity before you applied. Sounds like a bunch of WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA to me.
Post by: bowhunterty on November 26, 2012, 07:07:53 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on November 26, 2012, 07:21:59 PM
So the guys that still happen to have a tag get a shot at a "Quality Margaret hunt", while those of us who happen to have filled our tags get nothing.
Uh, no. You got an elk.
Post by: JLS on November 26, 2012, 07:27:08 PM
Obviously the permit wasn't that important because you chose to pull the trigger.
Post by: Alan K on November 26, 2012, 07:28:26 PM
They didn't get to hunt that early weekend, or at least not in the Vail Tree Farm, and most of the kids shot bucks during the regular season without using their special permit. Then they came out with a Nov. 10th hunt for those who drew the permit AFTER a number of them filled their tag already. Would most of those kids shot a spike during the general season knowing they had a weekend to themselves in the heart of the rut? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it unless they were truly brand new to hunting. Sounds like this guys situation, though he did fill his tag on the special hunt rather than general season.
All that said, he did fill his tag on the special hunt despite it not turning out to be that special so I don't really see how they could redeem points. The guy spent probably a quarter of his life putting in for the hunt only to get shafted with fire danger when he finally drew it. He made the most of what he thought he had, only to find out that he could have had a much better quality hunt had he not hunted hard, at all, or simply not filled his tag. Again, I totally see the frustration and I'd be pissed too. I won't be ragging on him.
Post by: JPhelps on November 26, 2012, 07:40:47 PM
Let's say the said unit was "Dayton" and during the early season all of the permit holders were forced to hunt one basin. So the hunter decides with all of the pressure and the bulls he has been seeing he wants to use his tag and decides to take a 280" bull. Only to find out at a later date they were going to give him two more weeks. I have a feeling any permit holder would be a little upset. He thought he was making the most of his tag when others will get a second (most likely better opportunity).
He did harvest a bull and notched his tag (which I have a ton of respect for given the conditions). It is hard to say how I would feel in the same situation, but I do see his point.
Post by: Alan K on November 26, 2012, 07:43:35 PM
Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st. Just the one day, for any buck. Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season. For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still. You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.
On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month. Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well.
Would anyone really not be upset? Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.
Just another analogy. . . :twocents:
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 26, 2012, 07:59:06 PM
When i talked to the guy in Olympia he said he was going to transfer me to region 5 to see if they could find me access somewhere else. I told him there was no other access my permit was only good in the wilderness, and the whole wilderness was shut down to access, not 10% open, ZERO. But he tried.
When we apply for some of these permits we know there can be access issues, like archery and ML early seasons. I never thought that the wilderness would be shut down...
When we were forced into the points game it made it a you against me game and it sucks. What you think is fair may not be what i think is fair. And now that we are getting to the point of applying for half our lives and still not drawing it gets worse. We all want quality, but your definition of quality and mine are different...
Post by: grundy53 on November 26, 2012, 08:04:01 PM
Take an extreme example here. . . .
Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st. Just the one day, for any buck. Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season. For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still. You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.
On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month. Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well.
Would anyone really not be upset? Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.
Just another analogy. . . :twocents:
If you would truly be unhappy with a spike then you shouldn't shoot the spike. Would it suck? Yes. But life's unfair.
You can make all the analogies you want. He put in for a bull permit. He got drawn for a bull permit. He was afforded the opportunity to hunt the whole season and chose of his own free will to fill his tag. Whats next? Give the late Entiat tag holders their points back if there is no snow? Or if there is a huge burn that burns off the winter range? Give the late buck permit holders their points back if the rut is later then usual? If you knowingly put in for a permit for which if drawn you are going to want to hunt on private forest lands at the beginning of October you have to know that there is a possibility they will shut down the woods due to fire danger. It's the risk we take.
Post by: cem3434 on November 26, 2012, 08:19:47 PM
I would love to hunt archery for elk, but I cant bring myself to make the switch due to the weather conditions and my work schedule during September. There are fire closures almost every single year, this year was just a little worse than years past. I feel bad for the guys that didnt get an oppurtunity to fill their tags and I think WDFW is doing what they can do to be as fair as possible.
Sure Chesapeake, it sucks for you because you don't get to hunt in the snow, but I don't think you will ever get much sympathy from other members when you filled your tag. I think given the unit and the fact that its not a quality hunt, a large majority of the members would shoot the first raghorn bull they seen.
Congrats on filling your tag and putting meat in the freezer when others werent able to do so. :tup:
Post by: grundy53 on November 26, 2012, 08:29:45 PM
I see both sides of the arguement, but I tend to agree with Grundy more. We all put in for areas knowing that there is the possibility that the seasons maybe impacted by the weather conditions.:yeah:
I would love to hunt archery for elk, but I cant bring myself to make the switch due to the weather conditions and my work schedule during September. There are fire closures almost every single year, this year was just a little worse than years past. I feel bad for the guys that didnt get an oppurtunity to fill their tags and I think WDFW is doing what they can do to be as fair as possible.
Sure Chesapeake, it sucks for you because you don't get to hunt in the snow, but I don't think you will ever get much sympathy from other members when you filled your tag. I think given the unit and the fact that its not a quality hunt, a large majority of the members would shoot the first raghorn bull they seen.
Congrats on filling your tag and putting meat in the freezer when others werent able to do so. :tup:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 26, 2012, 08:32:48 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 26, 2012, 11:01:05 PM
I'm complaining of WDFW changing the rules of the game after the game was over. Several of you don't seem to grasp that. You don't seem to be able to get past "but you got an elk".
I'll say it again. I'm not complaining of others getting this opportunity. I'm not complaining of the fire closure, or of being stuck in the small NE corner of the unit.
For you that say "no do overs". What about the guys that didn't get an elk during the draw hunt, why do you feel they deserve a 2 week "do over" in December? I mean since the season is long since over, wouldn't another season just be a big "do over". After all those guys chose not to fill their tags during the hunt just like I chose to fill mine.
For the guy with the Dayton analogy. Your spot on. That's exactly how I feel. I settled on a rag horn 5 given the conditions and not expecting a "do over" since WDFW had never done that before.
WDFW hates me, are they giving you your points back? Were you able to tag an elk in the general season? If you did would you still want your points back even though you got an elk? If you get a cow with your cow tag will you still want your points back for the Adams hunt even though you got an elk? Personally I think you should get your points back.
For the guy saying "I've never seen a state, or this state give points back if you got an elk. I reported my elk before the hunt was even over(oct 10 or so). They still sent me the letter with the permit and everything. I fully suspect they didn't look at anyone's harvest report on this deal. They told me they gave points back on some hunts where they didn't have an option for an extension. I'm willing to bet there are guys out there who got an elk and their points back. Or who got their points back but still have season and tags left to hunt. I don't personally know any one though, so you got me there unless someone chimes in.
Maybe the 4 Margaret rifle rut guys got points back. I know a few of them filled tags and post on here.
The WDFW guys were real general when talking about what hunts they offered what. No mention of any specifics and they said they had no plans to publicly announce what hunts were offered what. They said they had been sending letters out for several weeks now. But I haven't got to talk to Dave Ware yet so the story may change. The region 5 folks say he's the horses mouth on this one.
This sure does change things. Next year if Wyco is closed for fire the Margaret guys will have to gamble on should they tag out in the NE corner, or hold out and hope for an extension!!! I think I'd rather be in this mess here than have to deal with making that call.
For you Margaret archery guys. What did they offer you?
Post by: Curly on November 27, 2012, 06:26:49 AM
The region 5 folks say he's the horses mouth on this one.
Dave Ware is both the horse's mouth and a horse's ass. :twocents: :chuckle: 8)
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 27, 2012, 06:34:53 AM
Post by: Curly on November 27, 2012, 06:36:42 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 27, 2012, 06:53:07 AM
Take an extreme example here. . . .
Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st. Just the one day, for any buck. Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season. For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still. You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.
On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month. Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well.
Would anyone really not be upset? Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.
Just another analogy. . . :twocents:
Perfect analogy to the OP's reasoning Alan.
Post by: bobcat on November 27, 2012, 07:23:55 AM
Post by: bradslam on November 27, 2012, 07:52:26 AM
Post by: nailbender on November 27, 2012, 08:00:13 AM
I'm one of the 4 rifle tag holders hunting in September and I have not been given any points back that I know of. Of course, all of us got our bulls. I didn't get to hunt the couple of bruiser bulls that I had located on Weyerhaueser land, but I made the most of the situation and in the end decided to pull the trigger on a smaller bull than I had planned. In fact, I did that knowing I could still hunt in November (alongside 50 other permit hunters). However, when I take an animal I accept the gift and try not to have any regrets. I do see his point though about the WDFW adding a "do over" season. Seems kind of strange they wouldn't just give points back like they have done in the past.
Nicley put. :tup:
If they were to give points back across the board, with exception for those who filled their tag... then great, done, move on. :twocents:
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on November 27, 2012, 08:04:28 AM
I'm one of the 4 rifle tag holders hunting in September and I have not been given any points back that I know of. Of course, all of us got our bulls. I didn't get to hunt the couple of bruiser bulls that I had located on Weyerhaueser land, but I made the most of the situation and in the end decided to pull the trigger on a smaller bull than I had planned. In fact, I did that knowing I could still hunt in November (alongside 50 other permit hunters). However, when I take an animal I accept the gift and try not to have any regrets. I do see his point though about the WDFW adding a "do over" season. Seems kind of strange they wouldn't just give points back like they have done in the past.
Nicley put. :tup:
If they were to give points back across the board, with exception for those who filled their tag... then great, done, move on. :twocents:
We have a winner here! For all who tagged out be thankfull for the food you have and move on. :bash: :bash:
Post by: Chesapeake on November 27, 2012, 09:13:15 AM
So i guess my situation is different. Yes i had a quality permit and a cow permit. I got kicked out of the area for the quality permit. If i get a cow i think i should still get my quality points back, as i never really had an opportunity to hunt my quality permit.
WDFW, I agree with you. Your situation is different to a degree. I think you should get your points back.
I was just trying to see what you thought about the "but you got an elk" bit. Doesnt sound like you got an elk yet though.
Post by: MR5x5 on November 27, 2012, 09:33:13 AM
It's not about "did you get one or not".
It's about changing the rules in middle, or after the game has been played.
Bad form WDFW.
Post by: Chesapeake on November 27, 2012, 10:01:29 AM
I don't know what I think. I don't believe WDFW could give points back but lets switch this up and use a different unit.
Let's say the said unit was "Dayton" and during the early season all of the permit holders were forced to hunt one basin. So the hunter decides with all of the pressure and the bulls he has been seeing he wants to use his tag and decides to take a 280" bull. Only to find out at a later date they were going to give him two more weeks. I have a feeling any permit holder would be a little upset. He thought he was making the most of his tag when others will get a second (most likely better opportunity).
He did harvest a bull and notched his tag (which I have a ton of respect for given the conditions). It is hard to say how I would feel in the same situation, but I do see his point.
Jason,
I can tell you how I felt when I read that letter. Pissed off at WDFW! I wouldnt at all be surprised to hear others would feel the same in my situation.
Its maddening to have WDFW give the guys that failed at the hunt a "do over" while giveing those of us that succeded nothing.
Ill have to get ahold of my friend that had the same tag and took a 5x5 the same day I took mine and see how he feels about it. His partner had the tag also and they were still hunting when I left. Likely they both tagged out. They're a couple go getters.
Its really quite surprising to me that they are offering the extension in the first place. Several of the muzzy guys filled tags on the hunt. It sounded like a war zone down below Bear pass toward Grizzly opening morning. Hikers I talked to reported several tents of hunters on top of Bear Pass. We had area to hunt and folks were filling tags.
Now WDFW hates me didnt get any chance to hunt. And yeah, he knew going in about fire danger. But now he's trying to get his points back on a hunt that didnt happen, and they gave the muzzy guys an extension for a hunt that folks harvested animals on. Not sure I understand that line of thinking.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 27, 2012, 04:37:13 PM
I do understand the issue. I also think 2 weeks is excessive. We only have a 7 day ML season, why 2 weeks at the end of the year???
Post by: bobcat on November 27, 2012, 04:40:23 PM
Quote
I do understand the issue. I also think 2 weeks is excessive. We only have a 7 day ML season, why 2 weeks at the end of the year???
My guess is that they want lots of elk killed.
Post by: Chesapeake on November 27, 2012, 05:41:36 PM
QuoteI do understand the issue. I also think 2 weeks is excessive. We only have a 7 day ML season, why 2 weeks at the end of the year???
My guess is that they want lots of elk killed.
Bobcat, I fully suspect you are more right than we will ever know. WDFW was talking of bartering a deal with Wyco for access for the extended hunt. I'm much more inclined to believe Wyco bartered the deal with WDFW for the extended hunt to make sure a high percentage of them 70 muzzy cow tags and 14 bull tags get filled. Or WDFW themselves wanted the cow tags filled for their herd reduction plans.
Hunters have complained for years of fire closures and WDFW hasnt budged. Now this year they pull this. I'm betting it wasnt complaining hunters that swayed the panel.
All this herd reduction work in the SW corner seems to really be working good. The units I hunt seem to have much less elk than even 3 years ago. I'm guessing the 2012 harvest reports will tell the tale. Probably not too many more years left of this freezer filling herd reduction plan.
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 27, 2012, 06:05:12 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 27, 2012, 06:16:10 PM
I am going to can a whole elk in january, it will last the family longer... The days of a slam dunk elk hunt is going by the wayside.
It was fun while it lasted. Where did you get a can big enough to hold a whole elk?? :yike: :chuckle:
Post by: Wea300mag on November 27, 2012, 06:18:33 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on November 28, 2012, 08:10:37 AM
On a positive note, I shot my Bighorn several times over the weekend and it is dead on. Bring on a big old lead cow. :hunter:
I generaly try to avoid the big lead cows. Dont like to take all that survival experience out of the herd, and they dont eat nearly so well as a nice 3 1/2 year old or so. I look for a full bodied cow with a shorter head. The big lead cows and older cows have long heads.
But yeah, go get you a freezer full!! :tup:
Post by: dscubame on November 28, 2012, 10:34:12 AM
Post by: Deer slayer on November 28, 2012, 10:17:59 PM
That is exactly what its about guys. Just look at the coweeman and Lewis River and the decline in population. They even pointed out to you where they want you to hunt. Weyco. Its about knocking the herd down and due to the land being shut down that didnt happen early on. Weyco makes the desicions on the elk hunting in the SW portion of the state. Just my thought.QuoteI do understand the issue. I also think 2 weeks is excessive. We only have a 7 day ML season, why 2 weeks at the end of the year???
My guess is that they want lots of elk killed.
Bobcat, I fully suspect you are more right than we will ever know. WDFW was talking of bartering a deal with Wyco for access for the extended hunt. I'm much more inclined to believe Wyco bartered the deal with WDFW for the extended hunt to make sure a high percentage of them 70 muzzy cow tags and 14 bull tags get filled. Or WDFW themselves wanted the cow tags filled for their herd reduction plans.
Hunters have complained for years of fire closures and WDFW hasnt budged. Now this year they pull this. I'm betting it wasnt complaining hunters that swayed the panel.
All this herd reduction work in the SW corner seems to really be working good. The units I hunt seem to have much less elk than even 3 years ago. I'm guessing the 2012 harvest reports will tell the tale. Probably not too many more years left of this freezer filling herd reduction plan.
Post by: grundy53 on November 29, 2012, 05:07:26 AM
:yeah:On a positive note, I shot my Bighorn several times over the weekend and it is dead on. Bring on a big old lead cow. :hunter:
I generaly try to avoid the big lead cows. Dont like to take all that survival experience out of the herd, and they dont eat nearly so well as a nice 3 1/2 year old or so. I look for a full bodied cow with a shorter head. The big lead cows and older cows have long heads.
But yeah, go get you a freezer full!! :tup:
Post by: Chesapeake on November 29, 2012, 09:25:56 AM
That is exactly what its about guys. Just look at the coweeman and Lewis River and the decline in population. They even pointed out to you where they want you to hunt. Weyco. Its about knocking the herd down and due to the land being shut down that didnt happen early on. Weyco makes the desicions on the elk hunting in the SW portion of the state. Just my thought.QuoteI do understand the issue. I also think 2 weeks is excessive. We only have a 7 day ML season, why 2 weeks at the end of the year???
My guess is that they want lots of elk killed.
Bobcat, I fully suspect you are more right than we will ever know. WDFW was talking of bartering a deal with Wyco for access for the extended hunt. I'm much more inclined to believe Wyco bartered the deal with WDFW for the extended hunt to make sure a high percentage of them 70 muzzy cow tags and 14 bull tags get filled. Or WDFW themselves wanted the cow tags filled for their herd reduction plans.
Hunters have complained for years of fire closures and WDFW hasnt budged. Now this year they pull this. I'm betting it wasnt complaining hunters that swayed the panel.
All this herd reduction work in the SW corner seems to really be working good. The units I hunt seem to have much less elk than even 3 years ago. I'm guessing the 2012 harvest reports will tell the tale. Probably not too many more years left of this freezer filling herd reduction plan.
Yeah, I got the access packet in the mail much like the first one. It had the Wyco access map showing areas where Wyco see's the most elk damage, some stuff about what gates, and a placard to place on my dash when I'm in there hunting. Not that I'll be in there hunting....
I'm all for these access partnerships and such. Logging land access is pretty well a requirement of hunting the SW corner. We hunters are in a position where we need the timber companies. I'm just not sure I'm in line with the political clout, methods used to reduce tree farm crop loss, herbacides, ect...... I suspect if I was a tree farm owner I'd feel different though. I certainly agree with them locking gates to keep trash dumpers out. I actualy quite like the logging companies. I've been out east and to other states. When land goes to privae individuals and gets split up for ranchets and subdivisions hunting acces goes away and habitat is all but destroyed by being split up to the point of being unusable as large game habitat. These logging outfits with vast holdings do us much more good than harm. Lord knows their lands hold far better game numbers than the stuff the state manages.
:dunno:
Post by: Wea300mag on December 22, 2012, 02:34:54 PM