WDFW!!!!!

[JLS]

You show me a single state that would restore your special permit points AFTER you filled your tag on an animal. 

Obviously the permit wasn't that important because you chose to pull the trigger.

[Alan K]

I totally see your point of view, just like I feel for the kids who drew the Skookumchuck early rifle hunt.

They didn't get to hunt that early weekend, or at least not in the Vail Tree Farm, and most of the kids shot bucks during the regular season without using their special permit.  Then they came out with a Nov. 10th hunt for those who drew the permit AFTER a number of them filled their tag already.  Would most of those kids shot a spike during the general season knowing they had a weekend to themselves in the heart of the rut? Maybe, but I seriously doubt it unless they were truly brand new to hunting.  Sounds like this guys situation, though he did fill his tag on the special hunt rather than general season.

All that said, he did fill his tag on the special hunt despite it not turning out to be that special so I don't really see how they could redeem points.  The guy spent probably a quarter of his life putting in for the hunt only to get shafted with fire danger when he finally drew it.  He made the most of what he thought he had, only to find out that he could have had a much better quality hunt had he not hunted hard, at all, or simply not filled his tag.  Again, I totally see the frustration and I'd be pissed too.  I won't be ragging on him.

[JPhelps]

I don't know what I think.  I don't believe WDFW could give points back but lets switch this up and use a different unit.

Let's say the said unit was "Dayton" and during the early season all of the permit holders were forced to hunt one basin.  So the hunter decides with all of the pressure and the bulls he has been seeing he wants to use his tag and decides to take a 280" bull.  Only to find out at a later date they were going to give him two more weeks.  I have a feeling any permit holder would be a little upset. He thought he was making the most of his tag when others will get a second (most likely better opportunity).

He did harvest a bull and notched his tag (which I have a ton of respect for given the conditions).  It is hard to say how I would feel in the same situation, but I do see his point.

[Alan K]

Take an extreme example here. . . .

Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st.  Just the one day, for any buck.  Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season.  For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still.  You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.

On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month.  Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well. 

Would anyone really not be upset?  Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.

Just another analogy. . . 

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I agree that it is a mess. So what is the fix? I think WDFW has done what they thought was best and the most fair. I for one am glad they are offering more opportunity.
When i talked to the guy in Olympia he said he was going to transfer me to region 5 to see if they could find me access somewhere else. I told him there was no other access my permit was only good in the wilderness, and the whole wilderness was shut down to access, not 10% open, ZERO. But he tried.

When we apply for some of these permits we know there can be access issues, like archery and ML early seasons. I never thought that the wilderness would be shut down...

When we were forced into the points game it made it a you against me game and it sucks. What you think is fair may not be what i think is fair. And now that we are getting to the point of applying for half our lives and still not drawing it gets worse. We all want quality, but your definition of quality and mine are different...

[grundy53]

Take an extreme example here. . . .

Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st.  Just the one day, for any buck.  Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season.  For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still.  You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.

On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month.  Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well. 

Would anyone really not be upset?  Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.

Just another analogy. . . 

If you would truly be unhappy with a spike then you shouldn't shoot the spike. Would it suck? Yes. But life's unfair.


You can make all the analogies you want. He put in for a bull permit. He got drawn for a bull permit. He was afforded the opportunity to hunt the whole season and chose of his own free will to fill his tag. Whats next? Give the late Entiat tag holders their points back if there is no snow? Or if there is a huge burn that burns off the winter range? Give the late buck permit holders their points back if the rut is later then usual? If you knowingly put in for a permit for which if drawn you are going to want to hunt on private forest lands at the beginning of October you have to know that there is a possibility they will shut down the woods due to fire danger. It's the risk we take.

[cem3434]

I see both sides of the arguement, but I tend to agree with Grundy more.  We all put in for areas knowing that there is the possibility that the seasons maybe impacted by the weather conditions.

I would love to hunt archery for elk, but I cant bring myself to make the switch due to the weather conditions and my work schedule during September. There are fire closures almost every single year, this year was just a little worse than years past. I feel bad for the guys that didnt get an oppurtunity to fill their tags and I think WDFW is doing what they can do to be as fair as possible. 

Sure Chesapeake, it sucks for you because you don't get to hunt in the snow, but I don't think you will ever get much sympathy from other members when you filled your tag.  I think given the unit and the fact that its not a quality hunt, a large majority of the members would shoot the first raghorn bull they seen. 

Congrats on filling your tag and putting meat in the freezer when others werent able to do so.

[grundy53]

I see both sides of the arguement, but I tend to agree with Grundy more.  We all put in for areas knowing that there is the possibility that the seasons maybe impacted by the weather conditions.

I would love to hunt archery for elk, but I cant bring myself to make the switch due to the weather conditions and my work schedule during September. There are fire closures almost every single year, this year was just a little worse than years past. I feel bad for the guys that didnt get an oppurtunity to fill their tags and I think WDFW is doing what they can do to be as fair as possible. 

Sure Chesapeake, it sucks for you because you don't get to hunt in the snow, but I don't think you will ever get much sympathy from other members when you filled your tag.  I think given the unit and the fact that its not a quality hunt, a large majority of the members would shoot the first raghorn bull they seen. 

Congrats on filling your tag and putting meat in the freezer when others werent able to do so.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I want 12 points,  because if i would have had these points i would have put in for  the permit.  Then could not of hunted,  so i deserve theses points. 

[Chesapeake]

Some of you get it, some don't. For the guys talking fire closure and weather. I didn't complain about any of that. I knew of the risk. Put in the work and got it done given the conditions. Never did I complain. I'm pleased as heck with my success given the odds.
I'm complaining of WDFW changing the rules of the game after the game was over. Several of you don't seem to grasp that. You don't seem to be able to get past "but you got an elk".
I'll say it again. I'm not complaining of others getting this opportunity. I'm not complaining of the fire closure, or of being stuck in the small NE corner of the unit.
For you that say "no do overs". What about the guys that didn't get an elk during the draw hunt, why do you feel they deserve a 2 week "do over" in December? I mean since the season is long since over, wouldn't another season just be a big "do over". After all those guys chose not to fill their tags during the hunt just like I chose to fill mine.
For the guy with the Dayton analogy. Your spot on. That's exactly how I feel. I settled on a rag horn 5 given the conditions and not expecting a "do over" since WDFW had never done that before.
WDFW hates me, are they giving you your points back? Were you able to tag an elk in the general season? If you did would you still want your points back even though you got an elk? If you get a cow with your cow tag will you still want your points back for the Adams hunt even though you got an elk? Personally I think you should get your points back.
For the guy saying "I've never seen a state, or this state give points back if you got an elk. I reported my elk before the hunt was even over(oct 10 or so). They still sent me the letter with the permit and everything. I fully suspect they didn't look at anyone's harvest report on this deal. They told me they gave points back on some hunts where they didn't have an option for an extension. I'm willing to bet there are guys out there who got an elk and their points back. Or who got their points back but still have season and tags left to hunt. I don't personally know any one though, so you got me there unless someone chimes in.
Maybe the 4 Margaret rifle rut guys got points back. I know a few of them filled tags and post on here.
The WDFW guys were real general when talking about what hunts they offered what. No mention of any specifics and they said they had no plans to publicly announce what hunts were offered what. They said they had been sending letters out for several weeks now. But I haven't got to talk to Dave Ware yet so the story may change. The region 5 folks say he's the horses mouth on this one.
This sure does change things. Next year if Wyco is closed for fire the Margaret guys will have to gamble on should they tag out in the NE corner, or hold out and hope for an extension!!! I think I'd rather be in this mess here than have to deal with making that call.
For you Margaret archery guys. What did they offer you?

[Curly]

The region 5 folks say he's the horses mouth on this one.

Dave Ware is both the horse's mouth and a horse's ass.          

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

So i guess my situation is different. Yes i had a quality permit and a cow permit. I got kicked out of the area for the quality permit. If i get a cow i think i should still get my quality points back, as i never really had an opportunity to hunt my quality permit.

[Curly]

WDFW Hates Me should definitely get his points back in the quality category.  No question about it, IMO.

[Wenatcheejay]

Take an extreme example here. . . .

Say there was a blacktail special permit out there that allowed you to hunt your GMU November 1st.  Just the one day, for any buck.  Also for arguments sake, say there isn't a late buck season.  For whatever reason only 10% of your GMU is open, and you decide to hunt it still.  You hunt hard all day and fill your tag in the last hour on a spike, not having seen anything better and not wanting to go home empty handed.

On November 2nd the WDFW comes out and announces that because only 10% of the unit was available to be hunted on November 1st, they're extending the season through the end of the month.  Not only that, but the rest of the GMU will be available for hunting for the duration as well. 

Would anyone really not be upset?  Would they really look at that spike and say well, I can't complain because I got my deer? I know I'd be thinking about what could have been had I only known that I would have otherwise been able to hunt much longer during a much better time of the year and across a much larger area.

Just another analogy. . . 

Perfect analogy to the OP's reasoning Alan.

[bobcat]

I agree Chesapeake should get his points back, but if he does, he should also give the elk back.