Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 06, 2012, 09:03:50 AM
I don't have trailcamera pictures of the big boys this year so I've been left out of the loop :'(
Post by: huntnphool on December 06, 2012, 09:13:24 AM
Post by: bigbullshedhunter on December 06, 2012, 07:30:37 PM
Post by: antlerking on December 06, 2012, 07:33:03 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 06, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
BluesWow, very nice bull! Any story???? Which tag did you draw?? Congrats!
Post by: muleyslayer#1 on December 06, 2012, 07:34:33 PM
BluesTypical Blues Bull :drool:
Post by: crow killer on December 06, 2012, 07:34:58 PM
:yeah:BluesTypical Blues Bull :drool:
Post by: yelp on December 06, 2012, 07:57:22 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 06, 2012, 08:53:40 PM
BluesNo idea who that guy is but its not the auction tag holder.
Post by: TripleB on December 06, 2012, 09:02:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 06, 2012, 09:08:35 PM
how exactly does the governors tag work, what all can you do with it. :dunno:He can hunt with any weapon, in any eastside unit that was open this year, until the end of the year.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 06, 2012, 09:15:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 06, 2012, 09:17:24 PM
Governor's tag or not, that's ahelluva bull. :tup: I don't really recognize the hillside, but the genetics on that bull look familiar. Can't see him real well from that angle, but I would venture a guess that he breaks 400... :dunno:Nice bull but I dont think 400" :twocents:
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 06, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
Governor's tag or not, that's ahelluva bull. :tup: I don't really recognize the hillside, but the genetics on that bull look familiar. Can't see him real well from that angle, but I would venture a guess that he breaks 400... :dunno:Nice bull but I dont think 400" :twocents:
Hard to tell. I looked again, and maybe you're right. If both antlers matched each other (which they don't now that I look) he'd be pretty close.
Post by: TripleB on December 06, 2012, 09:27:50 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 06, 2012, 09:35:36 PM
how much does the tag cost or do you have to drawIts auctioned
Post by: Gunfire on December 06, 2012, 10:43:08 PM
IF you have some spare change, here's what the tags are going for.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/raffles/faq.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/permits/raffles/faq.html)
Post by: TripleB on December 06, 2012, 10:52:39 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 08:40:21 AM
BluesJust curious why you are posting up that pic when it has nothing to do with the thread topic?
Post by: muleskinner509 on December 07, 2012, 02:08:16 PM
Post by: jackmaster on December 07, 2012, 02:13:46 PM
Maybe he is a raffle tag holder?:yeah:
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 03:52:11 PM
Maybe he is a raffle tag holder?He is not the Eastside elk raffle tag holder, I guess he could be one of the combo tag holders.
Post by: Pinetar on December 07, 2012, 04:07:03 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 04:07:35 PM
Doesn't Riechert have both the governor and raffle tag this year. And I believe he hasn't filled either one yet unless he has done it this week.No, he doesn't have either.
Post by: Pinetar on December 07, 2012, 04:36:29 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 04:40:32 PM
Interesting? Rumor had it that he bought the governor tag and won the raffle tag.Rumors :bdid:
Post by: Austrian Hunter on December 07, 2012, 05:00:07 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 07, 2012, 06:18:55 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I don;t care who has it but I want to see it :chuckle: Next year I'm selling my wife's diamonds and buy them all :tup: :chuckle: :chuckle:You've bought your wife $50,000 worth of diamonds!!!!?????
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 06:53:16 PM
Don't you?:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I don;t care who has it but I want to see it :chuckle: Next year I'm selling my wife's diamonds and buy them all :tup: :chuckle: :chuckle:You've bought your wife $50,000 worth of diamonds!!!!?????
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 07, 2012, 07:10:51 PM
Post by: bone head on December 07, 2012, 08:02:30 PM
Post by: RaffleMule on December 07, 2012, 08:13:19 PM
Post by: woodywsu on December 07, 2012, 08:36:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 08:59:32 PM
U gonna post them bone.?:yeah:
Post by: huntergreg on December 07, 2012, 09:21:17 PM
U gonna post them bone.?:yeah:
:yeah:
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 09:34:25 PM
i know somethng most you guys don't know :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: pics comeing soon(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=10956)
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2012, 07:13:28 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2012, 10:44:13 AM
another useless thread :bash:Come on Bone Head, you're keeping everyone waiting. :bash:
Post by: motcha on December 08, 2012, 11:52:26 AM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 08, 2012, 12:13:35 PM
Post by: Basket Rack on December 08, 2012, 06:49:26 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2012, 08:50:39 PM
Post by: Austrian Hunter on December 08, 2012, 08:52:14 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 08, 2012, 08:56:17 PM
Post by: Basket Rack on December 09, 2012, 08:37:38 AM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 09, 2012, 08:43:13 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 09, 2012, 08:45:00 AM
It is big, very big!!Yes it is. And isn't it always??
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 09, 2012, 08:45:49 AM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 09, 2012, 10:41:52 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 09, 2012, 10:47:22 AM
Post by: BluMtHunter on December 09, 2012, 10:54:54 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 09, 2012, 11:02:00 AM
Mossback had nothing to do with any part of the hunt:tup: He looks like he added a few inches to his g5's from last year too. :tup:
Post by: bugs n bones on December 09, 2012, 11:14:17 AM
BluesDam nice bull!!! :tup:
Post by: woodywsu on December 09, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
the Elk is dead, Mossback had nothing to do with any part of the hunt and the meat will be butchered tuesday.
Pic I saw had mossback stamped all over it
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 09, 2012, 11:59:45 AM
Hummthe Elk is dead, Mossback had nothing to do with any part of the hunt and the meat will be butchered tuesday.
Pic I saw had mossback stamped all over it
Post by: huntnphool on December 09, 2012, 12:00:48 PM
So did his pic from last year yet they were not there.the Elk is dead, Mossback had nothing to do with any part of the hunt and the meat will be butchered tuesday.
Pic I saw had mossback stamped all over it
Post by: BluMtHunter on December 09, 2012, 12:05:32 PM
Post by: Tbar on December 09, 2012, 12:10:44 PM
Post by: woodywsu on December 09, 2012, 12:33:47 PM
Post by: 400out on December 09, 2012, 12:48:40 PM
Post by: BluMtHunter on December 09, 2012, 12:50:54 PM
Post by: BluMtHunter on December 09, 2012, 12:54:02 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 09, 2012, 01:03:59 PM
Here's a question. Has anyone ever killed a G-taq or Raffle tag with something other than a rifle?Bearhunter had the goat auction tag this year and killed his goat with his bow.
Post by: Special T on December 09, 2012, 01:17:13 PM
Post by: 280ackley on December 09, 2012, 02:07:28 PM
Post by: GUscottie on December 09, 2012, 02:15:09 PM
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 09, 2012, 03:45:57 PM
Post by: deerslyr on December 09, 2012, 03:47:20 PM
Post by: nwhunter on December 09, 2012, 10:54:31 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 09, 2012, 11:12:51 PM
I believe the westside gov tag shot his with a shotgun :dunno: nwhunter:yike:
Post by: bobcat on December 09, 2012, 11:14:40 PM
I believe the westside gov tag shot his with a shotgun :dunno: nwhunter:yike:
:yeah: ..... And why? :dunno:
Firearm restriction area?
Post by: BLUEBULLS on December 10, 2012, 06:17:56 AM
Just do it!
Post by: 400out on December 10, 2012, 06:21:53 AM
someone needs to post the pic... I have it but my phone is too damn old to get it on here...I will walk you thru it ;) Give me a call :chuckle:
Just do it!
Post by: BLUEBULLS on December 10, 2012, 06:46:30 AM
someone needs to post the pic... I have it but my phone is too damn old to get it on here...I will walk you thru it ;) Give me a call :chuckle:
Just do it!
what I mean is i'm behind the times... my phone "can't" even send them too any body let alone get them on here. :chuckle:
one of these days me and technology will meet. :chuckle:
Post by: Woodchuck on December 10, 2012, 07:25:37 AM
Post by: 400out on December 10, 2012, 08:01:24 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 10, 2012, 08:14:47 AM
Post by: 400out on December 10, 2012, 08:16:19 AM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 08:24:29 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on December 10, 2012, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 10, 2012, 09:33:08 AM
Post by: adamR on December 10, 2012, 09:33:59 AM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 10, 2012, 09:34:42 AM
Was that taken with a bow?
Post by: BoomWhop on December 10, 2012, 09:36:04 AM
Post by: RaffleMule on December 10, 2012, 09:46:43 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 10, 2012, 09:47:15 AM
Post by: Daytonite on December 10, 2012, 09:52:50 AM
Great bull, congrats to the hunter. :tup:
:yeah:
Post by: bobcat on December 10, 2012, 09:55:20 AM
Post by: gunnarnewt on December 10, 2012, 10:05:34 AM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 10, 2012, 10:17:54 AM
Post by: jrebel on December 10, 2012, 10:37:20 AM
Post by: 270Flat on December 10, 2012, 11:01:33 AM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 10, 2012, 11:35:40 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 10, 2012, 11:38:39 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 10, 2012, 11:47:01 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 10, 2012, 12:04:55 PM
Post by: deerslyr on December 10, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
Post by: NWWA Hunter on December 10, 2012, 12:28:48 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 10, 2012, 12:29:16 PM
Post by: KNOPHISH on December 10, 2012, 12:30:40 PM
Post by: Curly on December 10, 2012, 12:33:41 PM
:tup: Congrats to the hunter. :brew:
I'd piss myself if I ever got one like that in my sights. :o
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 10, 2012, 12:37:29 PM
Finally pics, I was second guessing re opening this thread....Glad I did.
Nice bull...Story coming???
Post by: Pinetar on December 10, 2012, 12:42:48 PM
Doesn't Riechert have both the governor and raffle tag this year. And I believe he hasn't filled either one yet unless he has done it this week.No, he doesn't have either.
That can't be Kevin he doesn't have the tag. lol
Great Bull!! And he still has the raffle tag in his pocket
Post by: huntnphool on December 10, 2012, 12:58:33 PM
Kevins last name is not Riechert, he was referring to Todd.Doesn't Riechert have both the governor and raffle tag this year. And I believe he hasn't filled either one yet unless he has done it this week.No, he doesn't have either.
That can't be Kevin he doesn't have the tag. lol
Post by: Pinetar on December 10, 2012, 01:02:17 PM
Either way he killed a dandy bull!!
Post by: 400out on December 10, 2012, 01:14:57 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 10, 2012, 01:56:32 PM
Post by: 400out on December 10, 2012, 02:02:36 PM
Nice to see the Mossback stamp gone in the pic. :tup:thought the same :tup:
Post by: WenHunter on December 10, 2012, 02:04:38 PM
Post by: wackum on December 10, 2012, 02:33:49 PM
Post by: link on December 10, 2012, 04:49:05 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 10, 2012, 04:49:49 PM
What a bull. Im a little lost, this guy has the auction tag and the raffle tag??Yep
Post by: link on December 10, 2012, 04:52:14 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 10, 2012, 04:59:46 PM
Post by: slim9300 on December 10, 2012, 08:14:17 PM
What a bull. Im a little lost, this guy has the auction tag and the raffle tag??Yep
That's insane. Lucky man!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 10, 2012, 08:43:21 PM
Post by: Wea300mag on December 10, 2012, 08:44:44 PM
Post by: Killercolin on December 11, 2012, 01:18:11 AM
Post by: mpetersen on December 11, 2012, 08:26:23 AM
Post by: Austrian Hunter on December 11, 2012, 02:15:36 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 11, 2012, 03:07:25 PM
I think the name Candy Cane fits this monster perfect!!! Wow, what a majestic animal!! Now, I hope he nails the Gov tag as well or the raffle tag, don;t know which one he used for the bull. That is one problem I want to have!!!!! Congrats to the hunter!!!
Rough life to have. I wish I had his problem
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 11, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on December 11, 2012, 08:40:30 PM
Post by: olsy on December 11, 2012, 08:51:50 PM
That is a fantastic bull. Did I miss the score?
I heard 420
Post by: huntnphool on December 11, 2012, 08:54:01 PM
I think its safe to say 400"+ :chuckle:That is a fantastic bull. Did I miss the score?
I heard 420
Post by: TommyH on December 11, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
Post by: go4steelhd on December 24, 2012, 03:53:53 PM
Post by: Maverick on December 24, 2012, 05:52:29 PM
Post by: bowjunkie on December 26, 2012, 03:17:28 PM
Post by: dewandgin on December 26, 2012, 08:46:53 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 28, 2012, 03:53:52 PM
Post by: Maverick on December 28, 2012, 04:41:43 PM
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 31, 2012, 10:09:51 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on December 31, 2012, 10:20:23 AM
3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Post by: huntnphool on December 31, 2012, 11:01:59 AM
+13 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Post by: boneaddict on December 31, 2012, 11:13:18 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 31, 2012, 11:16:45 AM
Post by: johnnyaustin44 on December 31, 2012, 03:34:53 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 31, 2012, 03:36:18 PM
Post by: johnnyaustin44 on December 31, 2012, 03:43:40 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 31, 2012, 03:50:50 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on December 31, 2012, 04:03:48 PM
3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Not the point of the raffle tag, well, not really anyways. It just leave s little hope for the guys like me who only throw down about $60.
I am happy I still have a sliver of a chance though :) maybe one day ;)
Post by: grousetracker on December 31, 2012, 04:36:21 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 31, 2012, 05:08:13 PM
It is disappointing because wildlife should belong to everyone in the state, not just the highest bidder. A key tenet of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is that wildlife is a public resource, owned equally by everyone.3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Each year it seems that a bit more of our wildlife is auctioned off, which runs counter to the ideal that everyone has the same opportunity.
While I understand the good that comes from the revenue that auctions generate, it is a slippery slope.
Post by: Maverick on December 31, 2012, 06:01:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 31, 2012, 07:10:07 PM
I don't see how its a slippery slope. WDFW set the quotas of animals they predict will be harvested as a percentage each year. If they allocate 100 bulls to the east side for the season then is it really that big a deal that they issue 99 of them to permits and one to the auction? :chuckle:It is disappointing because wildlife should belong to everyone in the state, not just the highest bidder. A key tenet of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is that wildlife is a public resource, owned equally by everyone.3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Each year it seems that a bit more of our wildlife is auctioned off, which runs counter to the ideal that everyone has the same opportunity.
While I understand the good that comes from the revenue that auctions generate, it is a slippery slope.
Same with mule deer, how many east side mule deer quality permits are given out each year? I don't see how subtracting one from the total for a auction is going to make a gnats ass difference in your draw odds, and the additional revenue it produces can be used for purchasing more land etc. :dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 31, 2012, 07:19:00 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 31, 2012, 07:19:43 PM
Multi-season permits have increased significantly (at $180 a pop.) There are more landowner hunts. More raffles. More special permit categories. All designed to raise funds from limited wildlife numbers. Do these help or hurt the average hunter? Yes, one elk auction permit that generates $50000 seems like an OK deal but the long term trend is troubling, in my opinion.I don't see how its a slippery slope. WDFW set the quotas of animals they predict will be harvested as a percentage each year. If they allocate 100 bulls to the east side for the season then is it really that big a deal that they issue 99 of them to permits and one to the auction? :chuckle:It is disappointing because wildlife should belong to everyone in the state, not just the highest bidder. A key tenet of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is that wildlife is a public resource, owned equally by everyone.3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Each year it seems that a bit more of our wildlife is auctioned off, which runs counter to the ideal that everyone has the same opportunity.
While I understand the good that comes from the revenue that auctions generate, it is a slippery slope.
Same with mule deer, how many east side mule deer quality permits are given out each year? I don't see how subtracting one from the total for a auction is going to make a gnats ass difference in your draw odds, and the additional revenue it produces can be used for purchasing more land etc. :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on December 31, 2012, 07:23:13 PM
Oh I agree as a whole there are far too many given out and the multi season license is pure BS. That being said even if they reduced the overall number of permits each year to a more acceptable number, I still would not have a problem with them keeping one of each of the quality permits for the auctions.Multi-season permits have increased significantly (at $180 a pop.) There are more landowner hunts. More raffles. More special permit categories. All designed to raise funds from limited wildlife numbers. Do these help or hurt the average hunter? Yes, one elk auction permit that generates $50000 seems like an OK deal but the long term trend is troubling, in my opinion.I don't see how its a slippery slope. WDFW set the quotas of animals they predict will be harvested as a percentage each year. If they allocate 100 bulls to the east side for the season then is it really that big a deal that they issue 99 of them to permits and one to the auction? :chuckle:It is disappointing because wildlife should belong to everyone in the state, not just the highest bidder. A key tenet of the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation is that wildlife is a public resource, owned equally by everyone.3 days left....
It's dissapointing that one guy can have both the govenor and the raffle tag.... Gives us average guys that aren't rich even worse odds...
Why is it disappointing? The whole point of these tags is to sell them to the highest bidder. It will be 30+ years if ever before I could responsibly afford such a tag. If nobody else wants to top that persons bid then why shouldn't he have it?
Each year it seems that a bit more of our wildlife is auctioned off, which runs counter to the ideal that everyone has the same opportunity.
While I understand the good that comes from the revenue that auctions generate, it is a slippery slope.
Same with mule deer, how many east side mule deer quality permits are given out each year? I don't see how subtracting one from the total for a auction is going to make a gnats ass difference in your draw odds, and the additional revenue it produces can be used for purchasing more land etc. :dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 31, 2012, 07:29:52 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 31, 2012, 07:44:19 PM
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on December 31, 2012, 07:50:05 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 31, 2012, 07:50:49 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on December 31, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
The raffles have basically turned into auctions it seems. At least this year they did. Guys dropping tens of thousands of dollars on raffle tickets kind of blows my $50 out of the water.
I understand your frustration, but I don't know how we could make the system more egalitarian without making it complex. You'd probably have to do something like Wyoming and have 'regular' (commoners) tags and "special" (rich mans tags) raffles. So now instead of one tag for each species for the bidding, and one for the raffle, you're going to have TWO for the raffle. Then we'll have to further divide the hunters up by income some how. Attach a tax return to your app? Limit the number of tags you can buy in the commoners pool, and the rich man too? Sell tags to the commoner for $5/ea and to the special ones for $50/ea?
Post by: jackelope on December 31, 2012, 08:27:06 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 31, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
If it wasn't all about revenue you put a cap on them. Since its about revenue I guess I can't complain. They are achieving the intended results.+1, I think revenue would likely be about the same if they limited the raffle tickets to a max of 5. I bet they would end up selling roughly the same number since more people would be participating and maxing out their purchase, rather than people bowing out knowing someone with $15k worth of tickets isnt cornering the odds.
Post by: boneaddict on January 01, 2013, 09:19:32 AM
Post by: shootnrun on January 01, 2013, 12:36:39 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 01, 2013, 03:13:16 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
I think its more of the fact that he doesn't enjoy it or possibly appreciate it as much as a local guy working a 9 to 5 job would.Huh? :o
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 01, 2013, 03:22:48 PM
I think its more of the fact that he doesn't enjoy it or possibly appreciate it as much as a local guy working a 9 to 5 job would.Huh? :o
That was to shootnrun, in response to him saying why does everyone have to be equal because people are complaining about rich guys buying these tags.
Post by: Tbar on January 01, 2013, 03:24:15 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2013, 03:35:00 PM
:tup:That was to shootnrun, in response to him saying why does everyone have to be equal because people are complaining about rich guys buying these tags.I think its more of the fact that he doesn't enjoy it or possibly appreciate it as much as a local guy working a 9 to 5 job would.Huh? :o
Post by: shootnrun on January 01, 2013, 05:35:35 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on January 01, 2013, 05:50:44 PM
Right.. So making more money makes you like hunting less? Do explain, please...
When you can buy any tag you want every year vs. getting it once or maybe twise in a lifetime the excitement for the tag goes down.
I'm not saying theres anything wrong with it, if I had the money id be buying tags all over the place.
Post by: Kazekurt on January 01, 2013, 07:24:28 PM
Scenario # 1
A man pays 167, 000 for a governers tag. With this tag, he elects to hunt the Monroe mountain unit in Utah which normally requires about 15 years to get a tag. He then hires an outfitter to keep track of a specific bull for a prolonged period of time. He then goes out to hunt the bull with a rifle during muzzleloader season and is led by the outfitter to the exact location of the bull. He misses and then goes home. A week or so later, the outfitter calls him back, says he's found the bull again! The hunter flies back to Utah and is once again shown the exact location of the bull. This time he connects and fills his tag. The bull is of world record caliber.
Scenario 2. A man uses a large sum of cash to obtain access to a large acreage high fence Property. He treks around the property solo and eventually finds and kills a world record caliber bull.
Scenario 3. A native hunter uses his tribal rights to access a permit area and proceeds to shoot a world record caliber bull with a rifle but does so while other permit holders are also hunting with rifles.
Scenario 4. A native hunter uses his tribal rights to access a permit area and shoots a world record caliber bull with a rifle in a non rifle season or a closed season.
Scenario 5. A man sees a world record caliber bull during bow season on state land;chases him all season but can't get a shot. On the last day of the bow season he shoots him with a rifle.
Scenario 6. A man own a large amount of acreage in a permit only area with no land owner tags. He sees a bull grow old on his property for 8 years. He never is able to draw a permit and finally shoots the bull anyway. It is world record caliber.
Scenario 7. A hunter obtains an OTC tag, scouts like crazy, competes with other hunters on public land, and is fortunate enough to shoot a huge bull that is the biggest bull ever measured outside of the 6 bulls in the aforementioned scenarios.
So, who should have the world record and what should be considered fair chase? Hunter one used wealth to enhance his odds relative to all other hunters, gain access, plus used a weapon others couldn't use. Hunter two used his wealth for access+ benefited from possible farm genetics and nutrition. Hunter 3 used tribal rights to gain access but was otherwise no different from other permit holders. Hunter 4 used tribal rights for access + used a weapon others couldn't use. Hunter five worked hard to find a nice bull on state land, competed with others, but eventually used a rifle illegally during bow season. Hunter six had the advantage of quality ground! Knew a monster was growing old on his place. Shot it with an appropriate weapon for the timeframe but due to circumstances outside his control was never able to acquire the legal right to hunt his own land. Hunter 7 is a hunting bada$$, had no advantage over anyone else other than luck and his hunting prowess. His bull is one inch smaller than the other 6. According to B&C, only two of these hunters would meet the fair chase requirement if all facts were presented accurately, even though one of the two cases used several of the same type of advantages(and one could argue more)that disqualified several of the other scenarios. Thoughts please!
Post by: Mr Mykiss on January 01, 2013, 07:39:45 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2013, 07:42:13 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on January 01, 2013, 07:51:41 PM
Uummmm... I just wanted to know if'n he filled the other tag :dunno::yeah:
I'm sure we'll find out at some point when all the minutia has been tossed around. :chuckle:
Post by: Tbar on January 01, 2013, 08:03:14 PM
I have no problem with these tags as I'm a firm believer that people shouldn't be punished for being successful; especially if the money really benefits wildlife. However, in this thread no one has yet brought up the greater issue which to me is: should it be considered fair chase? This is an extremely tough question as not all scenarios are the same but here's some food for thought and I'll let you guys make the call.Maybe start a new thread.
Scenario # 1
A man pays 167, 000 for a governers tag. With this tag, he elects to hunt the Monroe mountain unit in Utah which normally requires about 15 years to get a tag. He then hires an outfitter to keep track of a specific bull for a prolonged period of time. He then goes out to hunt the bull with a rifle during muzzleloader season and is led by the outfitter to the exact location of the bull. He misses and then goes home. A week or so later, the outfitter calls him back, says he's found the bull again! The hunter flies back to Utah and is once again shown the exact location of the bull. This time he connects and fills his tag. The bull is of world record caliber.
Scenario 2. A man uses a large sum of cash to obtain access to a large acreage high fence Property. He treks around the property solo and eventually finds and kills a world record caliber bull.
Scenario 3. A native hunter uses his tribal rights to access a permit area and proceeds to shoot a world record caliber bull with a rifle but does so while other permit holders are also hunting with rifles.
Scenario 4. A native hunter uses his tribal rights to access a permit area and shoots a world record caliber bull with a rifle in a non rifle season or a closed season.
Scenario 5. A man sees a world record caliber bull during bow season on state land;chases him all season but can't get a shot. On the last day of the bow season he shoots him with a rifle.
Scenario 6. A man own a large amount of acreage in a permit only area with no land owner tags. He sees a bull grow old on his property for 8 years. He never is able to draw a permit and finally shoots the bull anyway. It is world record caliber.
Scenario 7. A hunter obtains an OTC tag, scouts like crazy, competes with other hunters on public land, and is fortunate enough to shoot a huge bull that is the biggest bull ever measured outside of the 6 bulls in the aforementioned scenarios.
So, who should have the world record and what should be considered fair chase? Hunter one used wealth to enhance his odds relative to all other hunters, gain access, plus used a weapon others couldn't use. Hunter two used his wealth for access+ benefited from possible farm genetics and nutrition. Hunter 3 used tribal rights to gain access but was otherwise no different from other permit holders. Hunter 4 used tribal rights for access + used a weapon others couldn't use. Hunter five worked hard to find a nice bull on state land, competed with others, but eventually used a rifle illegally during bow season. Hunter six had the advantage of quality ground! Knew a monster was growing old on his place. Shot it with an appropriate weapon for the timeframe but due to circumstances outside his control was never able to acquire the legal right to hunt his own land. Hunter 7 is a hunting bada$$, had no advantage over anyone else other than luck and his hunting prowess. His bull is one inch smaller than the other 6. According to B&C, only two of these hunters would meet the fair chase requirement if all facts were presented accurately, even though one of the two cases used several of the same type of advantages(and one could argue more)that disqualified several of the other scenarios. Thoughts please!
Post by: Alan K on January 01, 2013, 08:07:42 PM
I'm not saying theres anything wrong with it, if I had the money id be buying tags all over the place.
:yeah:
Man I'd be all over the place buying middle of the road landowner tags with the same money. Could easily do 10-15 hunts for the price of the one! :drool: Maybe one day. . .
Post by: Kazekurt on January 01, 2013, 08:41:01 PM
My long post earlier was not meant to disparage governers tag hunters; especially considering many hunt their tail off for months looking for the right animal to justify all that cash. Clearly you have to love the sport to drop that kind of cash and many of these guys also put up a lot of money to protect our gun rights, habitat, and many other things that benefit all sportsman. My post was more to generate discussion on what is fair chase as I think B&C sometimes selectively applies this standard. I'm not sure their really is a solution as hunting for the most part is inherently unequal. Some have the benefit of wealth, some have killer land access, some have beneficial ancestry, some have lots of time, etc. the reality is that everyone uses the advantages they have in the pursuit of this beloved sport! If I had the cash I'd use it to my advantage too, though for me I doubt horn size would ever be the end all. Any animal earned is a trophy and a lot of auction tag holders still earn there trophy. I just wish some of the hard earned trophies would get more press, even if they aren't records as those are the stories that I most enjoy. I do enjoy all pics of world record caliber animals though as they fuel me when I'm running on empty! I figure if i keep at it, the guy in those pics could someday be me:-)
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 01, 2013, 08:44:44 PM
Post by: huntnnw on January 01, 2013, 09:37:25 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 01, 2013, 09:50:22 PM
neither do I, but what I do have an issue with is the record book entries for these animals they SHOULD not be in the same category as a DIY public land or OTC hunt periodI don't see why not.
Post by: Kazekurt on January 01, 2013, 11:05:22 PM
Phool, you asked why not. I guess my question would be this. If we allow a gov tag holder to be recognized for shooting an animal outside of the normal prescribed season or with a weapon inconsistent with the normal prescribed season what is the difference between him and the hunters in the other scenarios? If an Indian goes into the entiat in December and shoots a world record in December should we recognize it? Though I don't agree with it, he is there hunting legally just like the guy with the governers tag so how can you really accept one and not the other as the only difference is one used wealth to obtain access while the other used birth. I'm with you 100% on the greater implications of the tribal hunts but if you disregard those issues and simply make a one on one record book comparison their really is no difference. Comparing some records is really an apples and oranges debate. It would be like allowing an athlete at the Olympics to break a world record in the 100 meter dash by starting 30 yds closer to the finish. Can you imagine the outcry if we allowed one athlete to gain a 30 yd head start simply by agreeing to donate the greatest sum of money to charity. We already have different classes for weapons because we recognize they can't be equitably compared so huntnw suggestion isn't unprecedented.
Post by: bobcat on January 01, 2013, 11:27:39 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 02, 2013, 12:29:04 AM
Phool, you asked why not. I guess my question would be this. If we allow a gov tag holder to be recognized for shooting an animal outside of the normal prescribed season or with a weapon inconsistent with the normal prescribed season what is the difference between him and the hunters in the other scenarios?"Assumption is the mother of all f#%€ ups"
This is the same kind of thinking that has people pushing for more ineffective gun control. You assume that the people with these tags have only hunted "out of season" that is to say when nobody else is, or between or after the states mandated seasons. This is not the case, so why should those animals be excluded from the books?
I think what some of you are missing here is that the record books are meant to honor the animal, not the hunter.:yeah:
Post by: bearpaw on January 02, 2013, 06:43:50 AM
I think some of these "other" discussions should be started in another topic if you want to have them. :twocents:
Post by: arees on January 02, 2013, 07:24:51 AM
Post by: Maverick on January 02, 2013, 11:23:22 AM
neither do I, but what I do have an issue with is the record book entries for these animals they SHOULD not be in the same category as a DIY public land or OTC hunt period
I agree with this. At least note in the books that this bull was taken with a govenor or raffle tag and if it was a guided hunt or not. I see no problem with this. I think its fair for anyone to know that looks at a dandy bull in the books.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 02, 2013, 11:51:47 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 05, 2013, 09:55:50 AM
http://www.nmwildlife.org/images/uploads/Fall_2012.pdf (http://www.nmwildlife.org/images/uploads/Fall_2012.pdf)
By Joel Gay
New Mexico Wildlife Federation
Over the last 20 years hunters have shelled out millions of dollars for big game license auctions and raffles in New Mexico and elsewhere in the West, sometimes paying huge sums because the money benefits habitat and management.
But the number of public hunting licenses diverted into what are commonly known as “governor tags” has risen dramatically in recent years and an increasing number of hunters are growing uncomfortable about the situation. Among their concerns:
• That taking licenses out of the public draw and selling them undermines a basic tenet of our hunting heritage by allowing a few to “buy their way to the head of the line;”
• That some sportsmen’s organizations conducting auctions and raffles are keeping too much of the proceeds or are not transparent about how the funds are used;
• That some auction/raffle licenses have far more liberal regulations than regular hunts, making them a form of “legalized poaching” and flooding the record books with suspect animals;
• That some state wildlife agencies are so reliant on auction/raffle revenues that they’re molding management to support the special license sales.
It’s hard to argue against any program that pays for wildlife habitat and big game management, and many hunters maintain that the special auctions and raffles continue to do more good than harm. But others, including the prestigious Boone and Crockett Club and well-known outdoor writers like Guy Eastman say it’s time to reassess special license sales.
“I think people have hit the saturation point,” Eastman told New Mexico Wildlife Federation recently. “Hunters are saying this is out of control, that enough is enough.”
Good program gone too far?
Albuquerque hunter Brandon Wynn said he generally supports New Mexico’s special license sales, known officially as the Big Game Enhancement Program (see sidebar). The Department of Game and Fish provides about 20 licenses every year to a small number of organizations to raffle or auction. Most of the proceeds go to habitat restoration and big game management.
But Wynn said he was not happy when the state Legislature this year added two more bighorn sheep tags to the mix. The state now donates four ram licenses for auction or raffle, yet offers only 28 ram tags in the Big Game Draw.
“It’s too much,” Wynn said of the addition. New Mexico has had one of the most successful sheep programs in the nation, he said, removing desert bighorn from the state endangered species list. “And they did all that with just two auction and raffle tags,” Wynn said. “If they want to auction more elk, that’s fine. But more sheep? No.”
Like many hunters, Wynn said he’s noticed a creeping expansion of special license auctions and raffles throughout the West. New Mexico’s program started in 1990 with a single bighorn sheep tag auction. In 2000, a bighorn raffle was added, along with an elk auction and raffle. Two deer tags were offered in 2004. Four years later the state created two Grand Slam packages, each of which auctions five tags – elk, deer, antelope, oryx and ibex. A Gould’s turkey auction came in 2009. The two additional bighorn licenses will be auctioned and raffled this winter.
Other state programs are growing too. Earlier this year the Idaho Legislature passed a bill providing 12 more auction tags to nonprofit organizations. The licenses come on top of the 30 already sold in the state’s Supertag raffle.
Wyoming for many years gave its governor 20 tags to donate to charities of his choice. Several years ago the seven members of the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission started getting eight big game tags each – 56 total – to donate to charity.
Arizona for years has provided 30 licenses for conservation groups to auction or raffle. But in early 2012 Arizona Sportsmen for Wildlife (SFW) got a bill introduced in the state Legislature that would have given their organization 350 tags to sell during a sportsman’s expo.
The Arizona bill drew swift condemnation from hunters all over the West, including unanimous opposition by the Arizona Game and Fish Commission and a harsh letter from the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation. In the face of overwhelming opposition, the sponsor withdrew the legislation. Arizona SFW seems to have disappeared, too, taking down its website.
Eastman, an avid do-it-yourself hunter who publishes Eastmans’ Hunting Journals, said the increase in governor’s tags has been like an arms race among western states that has led to some disturbing trends. “The states and conservation organizations are in it to get as much money for that tag as possible, and when you open yourself up to that kind of situation, the sky’s the limit,” Eastman said. “Money corrupts…. It’s really a slippery slope for everyone involved.”
Follow the money
The first auctions seemed necessary and important, according to Eastman and others. States needed more money than they had available to help rebuild bighorn sheep stocks, and tag auctions were seen as a good way to raise revenue for habitat and management.
But over time, the special license sales have ballooned out of control, he said. States and organizations now compete to find ways to attract more hunters to their auctions and raffles and to ensure the tag winner gets a trophy animal – which then spurs interest in next year’s sales.
What started in most states with a single tag steadily expanded into what is now practically an industry. The state that invariably comes up when the talk (or blogs) turn to governor tags is Utah.
Since the early 1980s Utah has had a Conservation Permit program that provided licenses to conservation groups to auction – more than 500 of them, according to Tyler Boulter, vice president of the Utah hunting group United Wildlife Cooperative. The program aims to benefit wildlife, but by law the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources gets just 30 percent of the proceeds. The auction groups can keep 10 percent for administrative costs, and they’re supposed to spend the remaining 60 percent on habitat work.
Then in 2005, the Utah Wildlife Board created “Convention Permits” specifically to support the annual Western Hunting and Conservation Expo in Salt Lake City. The board donates 200 tags to the convention sponsors – Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and the Mule Deer Foundation – to raffle.
But unlike the Conservation Permits, there are no habitat or big game management spending requirements for the Convention Permits, Boulter said. In August the Salt Lake Tribune reported that the 2012 convention permits raised $1 million for SFW and MDF, but that the two groups kept $613,572 – more than 60 percent – for “show expenses.”
Boulter’s group gathered more than 1,000 signatures on a petition asking the Utah Wildlife Board to adopt stricter limits on how the auction proceeds can be spent and reported. According to Boulter, the board said it couldn’t change the program now because it has contracts in place for another four years.
Boulter said Utah’s massive tag giveaways have influenced wildlife management in the state, in part because of the overall economic value of the auctions and raffles but also because some of the beneficiary organizations play an outsize role in state wildlife politics.
“Influence being what it is, it is rather easy for the organizations to influence policy that increases the value and demand of these tags, increasing their bottom line and further strengthening their influence,” Boulter said in an e-mail to NMWF. “Add this to the constituents of certain organizations – guides, outfitters, landowners, etc. – and we see public opportunity being consumed by commerce. In my mind this goes directly against the public trust doctrine and the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation.”
It’s a troubling development, not only in Utah but elsewhere, he added. “I believe the ‘business’ of wildlife and hunting is spinning out of control, and if something isn’t done soon, it may be irreversible and will eventually turn our heritage into one that is similar to the model in Europe.”
Boulter’s group was not the only organization taken aback by the Utah tag sale revelations. In an open letter published in June, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation CEO David Allen called on all groups that receive auction tags anywhere to better explain how their special license proceeds are allocated and spent.
“When dealing with these special auction or raffle hunting permits we are dealing with a public trust,” Allen wrote. “It is imperative that we are as open and transparent as possible when we assume the responsibility of selling these permits.”
Guy Eastman said he believes that some organizations, such as the Elk Foundation, do a good job explaining how their auctions and raffles benefit wildlife and habitat, but that should be the rule, not the exception. “I think they [recipient groups] should have to outline every dollar they get and where it went,” he told NMWF.
Most states require that a substantial portion (typically 80 to 90 percent) of the funds revert to the state for habitat or management work. Under agreements negotiated with each nonprofit, New Mexico currently gets 90 percent of auction proceeds and 70 to 90 percent of raffle funds. At least two states – Montana and Idaho – raffle some or all of their own tags, keeping 100 percent of the proceeds.
Liberalized rules can yield trophy results
The auction and raffle money trail is a concern among hunters, but not the only one. Many believe that special license hunts are corrupting the record books. In 2008, Andrew McKean, the hunting editor for Outdoor Life magazine, wrote a scathing column after a governor tag hunter took a world-record bull elk in Utah. Denny Austad paid nearly $170,000 for his tag, which allowed him to use a rifle during muzzleloader season and gave him and his team of guides almost two weeks to stalk the 478 5/8 (nontypical) bull.
“I will argue until I die,” McKean wrote, “that his achievement is less remarkable than a do-it-yourself hunter who invests a season hunting hard for a bull that may have less headgear but was earned with more sweat, boot leather, patience and passion.”
Eastman said one of his main objections to governor tags is when they can be used year-round with any weapon. It’s bad for herds and bad for hunting, he said. “You’re paying to do what no one else is allowed to do,” he continued. “It’s just a license to poach.”
Earlier this year a hunter took a 440- inch, 7x8 bull in northern Arizona using a governor tag, though it isn’t clear what month it was shot. Many hunters wrote in to the Outdoor Life forum with congratulations. But “Elkboy” said he was not impressed:
“AZ’s Governor’s elk tag allows the holder to pay six figures to hunt any day of the year anywhere in the state with any weapon. … Jealous? Not one bit. Annoyed? Absolutely.”
Arizona is one of a handful of states where governor tags can be used all year. Wyoming is just the opposite, where auction tags are for the regular season only. Other states, including New Mexico, provide a longer season (deer and elk, for example, can be hunted Sept. 1 through Jan. 31) and the use of any weapon.
One of the biggest bulls ever taken in New Mexico was shot in early January 2008 by Tod Reichert, using a $40,000 governor tag. The bull, a 7x7 taken with a rifle, measured 441 3/8.
Two years later, another New Mexico governor tag winner took a 419-inch bull in late January. According to published reports, an outfitter spotted the bull in early November and tracked it for three months. The hunter shot it Jan. 30.
The Boone and Crockett Club voiced concerns about the effect that governor tags are having on the record books in a 2009 statement by Vice President Eldon “Buck” Buckner. He told the Western Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies that the auction and raffle tags are a valuable source of revenue, but that they are losing support from regular hunters.
“At Boone and Crockett Club, we’ve seen signs of increasing dissatisfaction with big game auction tags among the rank and file hunting community for several years,” Buckner said.
Some of it is jealousy, he continued, but “much comes from perceived abuse of the system. Many feel that auction tag holders receive too many perks,” including extra-long seasons, weapon choice, special assistance by state game personnel and over-use of guides and spotters. Buckner concluded by saying “there is still time to heed the warning signs” and improve the special auction system.
Where to from here?
But even since the Boone and Crockett statement in 2009, the number of auctions and raffles has increased, as has the ire of hunters like Eastman, whose publications reach tens of thousands of sportsmen. He was so angered by a Montana governor tag hunt in 2010 that he called on all western governors to stop giving out the tags and vowed to quit any conservation organization that auctions open-ended tags.
He was specifically angered by a Montana bighorn sheep hunt in the Missouri Breaks area. The wealthy hunter who bought the tag paid local landowners to block others from reaching the area he wanted to hunt, and hired three men to track a big ram for 100 days, Eastman wrote.
“I am openly asking each and every Western Governor to give those tags back to the people they belong to, the hunters,” he continued. “This system, although it had good intentions in the beginning, has completely gone awry with waste, greed and corruption.”
Especially on blogs and discussion forums, hunters have proposed numerous ways to change and improve the special license system. Eastman acknowledges that he may be in the minority, but said he would eliminate auctions and raffles altogether – put the licenses back in the public draw and cover the revenue shortfall the way all other conservation is funded, through sportsmen’s license fees, he said.
Others have suggested simply eliminating the auctions. If all the special licenses were raffled and there were a reasonable limit on the number of tickets a hunter could buy, the average Joe could spend $5 or $10 and also have a chance of being a winner.
More than one hunter has argued on forums like MonsterMuleys.com that special licenses should be restricted to the same season and weapon type as everyone else in that hunt. Some have said tags should be non-transferable (New Mexico is one of few, if any, states that allow a license winner to sell an auction or raffle tag).
In light of the financial transparency issues raised in Utah, hunters have said states should receive a high percentage of all special license proceeds and ensure that hunters can find out how much was received and what it was spent on.
Perhaps the most radical plan for reforming the governor tag auctions was posed by hunter Bill Schneider in 2009. He wrote in response to headlines about the jaw-dropping amounts paid for auction tags. Writing on the blog New West, he said:
“I believe many of the well-heeled hunters who bid on these trophy tags do it in part because they intend to contribute to wildlife conservation,” he wrote, asking: So why not return the tags to draw hunters and let the wealthiest vie for who can contribute the most directly to conservation?
“Then, the headlines would read ‘Utah hunter gives $205,000 to mule deer research,’ or ‘Illinois hunter donates $245,000 to wild sheep preservation.’”
Post by: gotcha on January 05, 2013, 10:59:27 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 06, 2013, 12:38:30 PM
Post by: Maverick on January 06, 2013, 03:28:31 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 07, 2013, 05:43:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 07, 2013, 06:10:29 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 07, 2013, 06:12:16 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 07, 2013, 06:32:31 PM
Is that all you can afford? :chuckle:I'd have to look through the sofa cushions just to come up with that. :chuckle:
Post by: Kazekurt on January 08, 2013, 09:30:15 AM
Post by: huntnphool on January 08, 2013, 09:55:39 AM
Of course the person that has been buying 5 tickets all along won't see his odds change if the same number of tickets are drawn, there is a perceived increase, and knowing that it's not just going to go to the same couple guys every year will help too. :twocents:
Post by: ellensburgpo on January 08, 2013, 10:08:44 AM
Post by: boneaddict on January 08, 2013, 10:15:59 AM
Post by: Kazekurt on January 08, 2013, 10:41:49 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 08, 2013, 10:43:21 AM
I like the 5 ticket limit idea! I'd definitely up my tickets from a couple to five. I'd would also be exciting to see some different people holding the tag. Maybe they could make it a you can only be successful once every 10 year tag, though I doubt anyone would be lucky enough to draw twice in 10 years if tickets were capped at five. I too wonder if it would raise more money. Is there an example of this in another state? If so, and its working, someone should point it out to wdfw. I figure if the raffle sold 10000 tickets at $6 that would be 60000, which is more money than most of the auction tags sell for and it would only take 2000 hunters to buy 5 tickets to get there.
No way the'll ever do that. The state would lose too much money.
Post by: huntnphool on January 08, 2013, 01:16:25 PM
I don't think they would. :twocents:I like the 5 ticket limit idea! I'd definitely up my tickets from a couple to five. I'd would also be exciting to see some different people holding the tag. Maybe they could make it a you can only be successful once every 10 year tag, though I doubt anyone would be lucky enough to draw twice in 10 years if tickets were capped at five. I too wonder if it would raise more money. Is there an example of this in another state? If so, and its working, someone should point it out to wdfw. I figure if the raffle sold 10000 tickets at $6 that would be 60000, which is more money than most of the auction tags sell for and it would only take 2000 hunters to buy 5 tickets
to get there.
No way the'll ever do that. The state would lose too much money.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on January 08, 2013, 02:25:07 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on January 09, 2013, 12:17:31 PM
I don't think they would. :twocents:I like the 5 ticket limit idea! I'd definitely up my tickets from a couple to five. I'd would also be exciting to see some different people holding the tag. Maybe they could make it a you can only be successful once every 10 year tag, though I doubt anyone would be lucky enough to draw twice in 10 years if tickets were capped at five. I too wonder if it would raise more money. Is there an example of this in another state? If so, and its working, someone should point it out to wdfw. I figure if the raffle sold 10000 tickets at $6 that would be 60000, which is more money than most of the auction tags sell for and it would only take 2000 hunters to buy 5 tickets
to get there.
No way the'll ever do that. The state would lose too much money.
Do you think that enough people who are "sitting out" would jump in if they thought they had a better chance? Would take alot of us "sitters" jumping in to make up $3,000 :dunno:
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2013, 12:20:40 PM
I might be one of them
Post by: Bob33 on January 09, 2013, 12:24:36 PM
Post by: cem3434 on January 09, 2013, 12:32:54 PM
The odds are presently so poor that they get none of my money.
Yeah, usually one or two people a year win that purchase less than $200 in raffle tickets but I will keep my money with those odds.
Post by: huntnphool on January 09, 2013, 12:33:22 PM
I do, and if you read through the thread you will see where I explain why. Just look at the replies from a few on here already, some have said they would probably buy all five rather than just one or two, and others that don't buy any said they probably would if it were changed. :dunno:Do you think that enough people who are "sitting out" would jump in if they thought they had a better chance? Would take alot of us "sitters" jumping in to make up $3,000 :dunno:I don't think they would. :twocents:I like the 5 ticket limit idea! I'd definitely up my tickets from a couple to five. I'd would also be exciting to see some different people holding the tag. Maybe they could make it a you can only be successful once every 10 year tag, though I doubt anyone would be lucky enough to draw twice in 10 years if tickets were capped atfive. I too wonder if it would raise more money. Is there an example of this in another state? If so, and its working, someone should point it out to wdfw. I figure if the raffle sold 10000 tickets at $6 that would be 60000, which is more money than most of the auction tags sell for and it would only take 2000 hunters to buy 5 tickets
to get there.
No way the'll ever do that. The state would lose too much money.
Post by: bobcat on January 09, 2013, 12:58:25 PM
The auction tags should be for the guys with unlimited money to spend. Raffle tickets should be for the regular guys who can only afford to put in $20 or $30. IMO
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on January 09, 2013, 01:11:41 PM
Post by: boneaddict on January 09, 2013, 01:22:45 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 09, 2013, 03:21:24 PM