Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 07:48:01 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2012, 07:57:06 AM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 08:05:18 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 10, 2012, 08:50:55 AM
I would recommend building, but I like doing stuff myself. So are you an do you own oil change type of guy? Yes, then you would probably like building your own. If you take your lexus to the dealership for oil changes, then you might want to just buy a rifle.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2012, 08:52:18 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 09:03:20 AM
Your Sig Sauer M400 Enhanced with a 7 twist in green or black Magpul furniture is your best bet at WalMart. Retailing around 900.00 bucks. Will do you great for calling coyotes, tearing up the local junk yard, wacking Tango's in your daisy patch or up in the tower if you got off the deep end.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2012, 09:06:35 AM
If in fact it's a Sig??? Anything for 550.00 retail is a piece of crap "Sporterized" abortion of a AR platform less, forward assists and other chit. Sig Sauer is a quality product and produces outstanding semi 5.56's , .308's and 1911.
Your Sig Sauer M400 Enhanced with a 7 twist in green or black Magpul furniture is your best bet at WalMart. Retailing around 900.00 bucks. Will do you great for calling coyotes, tearing up the local junk yard, wacking Tango's in your daisy patch or up in the tower if you got off the deep end.
I'm not sure if it was a Sig. I saw an ad a week ago or so. For $1200, he can do a lot better for sure.
Post by: h20hunter on December 10, 2012, 09:07:14 AM
Happy shooting.....oh...also, you might as well also buy a press 'cause you are going to need it when you start banging out rounds.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 09:14:21 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 10, 2012, 09:38:03 AM
Get a stripped lower (the serialized part requiring FFL if not a private purchase). All other parts are fine to order over the internet. Order a lower parts kit and a stock and grip to your liking, and you are set for whatever upper you want to put on top.
AR15.com has a good guide on building. I am sure that countless thousands have used this as a guide. (I did for my first.)
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/226782_.html (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_4/226782_.html)
Uppers might be trickier to build, require more specialized tools and jigs, and should be headspace checked before firing. For the first one, I recommend going with a combo upper, bolt, and carrier from a reputable manufacturer, which should ensure headspace is proper, and will give you an easy option for warranty work if necessary.
I won't comment on particular brands, but $1200 should be more than enough for a reliable rifle that fits your needs. If you are looking to splurge, the barrel and trigger are probably where your money is best spent.
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 10, 2012, 09:51:22 AM
.223...then make sure to get a chamber that can handle both the .223 and 5.56. 1:7 twist rate seems to stabilize 55 up to about 80 grains. For hunting I usually like the longer barrels, but since you also want a SHTF gun, you might want to stick with a shorter barrel. I like 16 inches since it doesn't have to have the flash suppressor permanately mounted.
Later if you hate your first choice of flash suppressor, it makes changing it easier. Or you could go with some like the three prong flash hidder that allows a Q/D sound suppressor.
I personally use a heavy barrel, 16" and its pretty accurate with just a reflex sight (1" at 100 off of a bench) probably would be better with a scope. The ligthest is probably the gov profile that allows a gernade launcher to be mounted....usless on a civie gun and I heard it can be flexed if you put enough pressure on the sling or a bipod.
I am guessing you want to use a scope...flat top reciever will make that easier. I have front sight, but some gas blocks come with a rail to mount back up sights. Biggest thing with scopes, backup sights and front handguard is getting rings tall enough to clear or backupsights that fold down short enough. I feel that type of front sight/ gas block, and free float tube is more of a looks thing than anything else, so get what you think looks good. I do like the classir handgaurd look, but rails or a free float tube make it easier to mount a bipod (just don't hang a whole bunch or crap off of it).
Avoid the temptation to get a two stage trigger, probably not what you want on this type of gun.
I am not big on one manufacturer over another. It does make things more or a garauntee to fit if they are all from one. My personal gun was a JSE or something lower with the rest being from DPMS.
Modify.... 6.8 would let you hunt deer too, but you can always build a second upper with a longer barrel for hunting later. :tup:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 10:10:04 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 10, 2012, 10:18:46 AM
Post by: jrebel on December 10, 2012, 10:26:13 AM
Wouldn't it make sense to buy an AR set up and then modify as you lern more about them? I was thinking about buying the sig or the RRA and as I learn more and feel I know more about the pieces just modify that one. I would assume you could then use the parts taken off the original gun and use them to assist in builing another.....Then you have two!!! YEAH
Or is the above just a bad idea cause not all parts are interchangeable??
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 10:59:21 AM
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 10, 2012, 11:13:29 AM
Yeah i think im in the same boat jrebel...i just looked at the how to build link and i think i got more to learn before i attempt that...last thing i want is to take it out to shoot and it falls apart :chuckle:
I felt the same way when I first considered building. At least build your own lower, its easier. Building what you want rather than replacing parts will always be cheaper, unless you can find something already made that is what you want. Other option find a friend that has built one and want some free beer :chuckle: I think I am more nervous everytime I shoot a new handload than when I shot my AR for the first time, although the audience (friends and family) said I didn't pull the trigger for about 15 minutes, just sat there.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
Post by: jrebel on December 10, 2012, 12:31:29 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 01:06:58 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on December 10, 2012, 01:20:03 PM
How does everyone feel about buying custom built rifles? Would you buy someone's build, or would you be afraid it was may not be built right and steer away? I ask this cause If I build one, will it have the same resale value as a factory one should I decide to sell it later in life? Also, I see a lot of builds for sale that look really nice but I personally steer clear of cause I don't know what I am looking at. What are you thoughts on this??
I might buy one (and have in the past), if I was not inclined to build one, instead.
There is very little to screw up on an AR that cannot be corrected. The biggest thing I would check before buying is tight fit of the upper to the lower, other than whether or not you would be happy with the brand/reputation and components. I am not a fan of polymer lowers, however.
Depending on components chosen and other information such as reliability and accuracy, resale as a percentage might be more or less than a factory built rifle, depending on which factory and the stigma associated with home built rifles.
Post by: Bean Counter on December 10, 2012, 01:30:08 PM
Post by: 300rum on December 10, 2012, 01:37:11 PM
How does everyone feel about buying custom built rifles? Would you buy someone's build, or would you be afraid it was may not be built right and steer away? I ask this cause If I build one, will it have the same resale value as a factory one should I decide to sell it later in life? Also, I see a lot of builds for sale that look really nice but I personally steer clear of cause I don't know what I am looking at. What are you thoughts on this??
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
Post by: tlbradford on December 10, 2012, 02:39:37 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 03:56:19 PM
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop%2Fbrowse&category=arvariants%26parts (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop%2Fbrowse&category=arvariants%26parts)
Plus they are local, they have outstanding match barrels and will ship anything you order at a flat rate of $7.00.
A close second to Rainier Arms match barrels is BlackHole weaponry but they come at it from a whole different angle. Both are great barrels and screw the 9 twist. Go with a 8 or 7 if you want to shoot it all across the board. :tup:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 04:02:56 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DH.4515072309331128%26amp%3Bpid%3D15.1&hash=7668a7a450e86e56c655f01275a1e0fde55ecf00)
Post by: NaturalSelection on December 10, 2012, 04:12:27 PM
If your looking to build a AR drop by Rainierarms web site and take a look, everything you need. Great customer service, some of the best prices and quality stuff.
http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop%2Fbrowse&category=arvariants%26parts (http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop%2Fbrowse&category=arvariants%26parts)
Plus they are local, they have outstanding match barrels and will ship anything you order at a flat rate of $7.00.
A close second to Rainier Arms match barrels is BlackHole weaponry but they come at it from a whole different angle. Both are great barrels and screw the 9 twist. Go with a 8 or 7 if you want to shoot it all across the board. :tup:
Second this.
I had Rainierarms build me a 5.56 for yotes. I picked out the parts and let them build it. The gun it's self shoots better then I do. But at the gravel pit I'll one shot your chew can, pop can, propane can, whatever at the twice the distance as the other off the shelf cheap rifles.
The customer service at rainer is top notch. Walk in and just talk and learn.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 04:29:08 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 04:35:23 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwhitetactical.com%2Fimages%2Fimage1_big.jpg&hash=66b0c10770839d0fa24c7bc23489386b6c813d76)
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 04:50:52 PM
this is what im looking to purchase...somthing like this
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwhitetactical.com%2Fimages%2Fimage1_big.jpg&hash=66b0c10770839d0fa24c7bc23489386b6c813d76)
Rainier Arms is your daisy.😉
Post by: KFhunter on December 10, 2012, 05:02:51 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F-3bwaoxCTbxg%2FULQuXOEbCbI%2FAAAAAAAAAow%2FApqtp0DYr8U%2Fs320%2FSigM400E.jpg&hash=e46c919b60ca971ec5d5cc7be2ef744a28b6fbc6)
I topped it with a BURRIS AR-332
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.cabelas.com%2Fis%2Fimage%2Fcabelas%2Fs7_713319_332_01%3Frgn%3D0%2C0%2C1374%2C866%26amp%3Bscl%3D3.9363636363636365%26amp%3Bfmt%3Djpeg%26amp%3Bid%3D2Ax3Yh0sr2469Mral0bJ3S&hash=226bf09d9a0d9145d24a89e0edd4d89f55d6b7d5)
So far I'm not crazy about the BURRIS, I'd take it back to Cabelas almost. Wish I had saved my pennies and put on a Leupold.
It does work ok though, I'm just not crazy about it.
The iron sights are awesome, I was impressed you can shoot a pretty tight group with them out to 100yrds.
I had 5 shots I could just about cover with a softball @ 100yds.
With junk ammo I shoot a 3" group @ 100 yds
With Hornady Supermax 55gr I shoot a 1 inch group @ 100yds - but with a flyer now and then.
I'm not sure if it's me or the gun cause that trigger is tough to squeeze off a tight group.
My biggest complaint with this weapon is the gritty trigger, I've greased it up too. It is getting better though.
So far I got 100 rounds'ish down the tube with mixed ammo and not a single misfire or stovepipe - every round has went bang.
Also this is with 6 new and mixed 30 round p-mags.
I'll take that anyday of the week :tup:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 05:54:12 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 05:59:54 PM
I looked at that at walmart tonight...it was $900 i think
The Sig 400 Enhanced is a great deal at 900.00 and it has the right twist. Took these makers long enough to figure out that 9 twist SUCK!
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 06:14:18 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 06:30:59 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 06:32:39 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 10, 2012, 06:35:48 PM
Cabelas has a Smith & Wesson M&P™ Sport AR-15 Rifle for $729.....which one would be better to start out with?
Either one for a starter AR. These guys will go on and on about how good or crappy an AR is. Go with your gut and what YOU want.
Post by: Special T on December 10, 2012, 06:38:23 PM
They are available at http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/ (http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/) Both companies are based here in Washington state.. or should i say the west side...
Post by: KFhunter on December 10, 2012, 06:49:02 PM
My part list would be every part to make a complete gun :chuckle:
I'd buy a new one, I was in the same boat a month ago.
If I were building rifles then it'd be a no brainer, I'd get out the box of spare parts and start making another one and ordering the stuff I didn't have.
But I had no spare parts, nothing lying around. I'd have to buy everying from mags to sights.
My only advice is to go to a bunch of stores and fondle as many AR's as you can get your grubby fingers on.
Then you'll start seeing features you gotta have.
You'll have a box of parts soon enough, so build your #2 gun if you decide AR's are your thing.
Also, I think a factory made AR would sell better than a homebuilt one from spare parts too. Maybe not to an AR guy but to the average schmuck who wants an AR.
If I advertised SIG SAUER M400 Enhanced factory spec rifle with BURRIS AR-332.
or
Home built AR with this, that, the other thing and some of this spec list......
which would sell better?
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 06:49:23 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 06:50:43 PM
My part list would be every part to make a complete gun :chuckle:
Get the base gun and go from there.
Post by: NaturalSelection on December 10, 2012, 06:51:51 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 06:52:23 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 06:56:27 PM
I put alittle over 2k into mine. Match grade barrel rifle lenght gas system, brake/comp, yhm bolt carrier group, fancy trigger.... it all adds up but in the end, the rifle flat out shoots. All I have to do is get behind it and do my job. Chew cans at 300 yards are a cake walk but I haven't played past that.
Sounds like me and my toyotas....i buy them stock and all hell breaks loose and i have a feeling its going to happen with my ar when i get it :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on December 10, 2012, 06:56:44 PM
If you buy one, make damm sure you get the bag. It comes in two boxes, 1 box for gun 1 box for bag
the bag is dammed nice!
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 10, 2012, 07:01:54 PM
My part list would be every part to make a complete gun :chuckle:
Get the base gun and go from there:
My "$917 dollar gun" is approaching $2000 already :chuckle:
Ya gotta love it! Look what kind of money pit a little harmless 120-200 buck stripped lower can turn into. :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 07:17:49 PM
My part list would be every part to make a complete gun :chuckle::tup:
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 07:18:31 PM
I put alittle over 2k into mine. Match grade barrel rifle lenght gas system, brake/comp, yhm bolt carrier group, fancy trigger.... it all adds up but in the end, the rifle flat out shoots. All I have to do is get behind it and do my job. Chew cans at 300 yards are a cake walk but I haven't played past that.
Happens all too easily, doesnt it?
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 10, 2012, 07:26:42 PM
I have a feeling i better get my wife somthing nice because of what im going to spend on this gun :chuckle:
You need to fix your thought process!!!!! Your wife has you and and that is all she needs, other than your guns so she when she gets fed up with your hobbies she has many ways to kill you. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: scottcrb on December 10, 2012, 07:32:32 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 07:37:00 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: she screwed herself with this one....shes been watching to many zombie movies and told me i didnt have enough guns and i made sure there was a witness to her saying it :chuckle: :tup:I have a feeling i better get my wife somthing nice because of what im going to spend on this gun :chuckle:
You need to fix your thought process!!!!! Your wife has you and and that is all she needs, other than your guns so she when she gets fed up with your hobbies she has many ways to kill you. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
So evertime i get a toy i remind her of that :chuckle:
Post by: jrebel on December 10, 2012, 07:40:01 PM
After 13 years mine has just shakes her head, she knows there is no stopping me. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 07:46:46 PM
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 07:55:06 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 08:24:26 PM
Hang on to her buddy! A keeper! :tup: Mine gives me her blessing as long as I buy her a new gun each time too! ;)
Thats.fair enough....more guns in the house :tup:
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 08:28:32 PM
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 10, 2012, 08:30:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on December 10, 2012, 09:07:01 PM
You got it! A win-win! PLUS, when things go bump in the night, all I need do is nudge her...she's holstered and out of bed taking care of business..Me? I'm rolling over and goiung back to sleep! LOL! :chuckle:
careful, next step she'll realize she don't need a man in her house at all :chuckle:
Post by: mountainman on December 10, 2012, 10:08:42 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 11, 2012, 02:23:24 PM
Parts list:
Seekins Precision Billet Upper
Black Rain Billet Lower (matches the Seekins upper like a dream and they have a set screw to take up any slop between the receivers)
Seekins 15" SP3R Rail (would also take a look at Troy Industries. Should be making an order with them soon for some rails)
SMI Bolt Carrier Group (Nickle Boron Coated)
SMI Single Stage 3.5# adjustable take up trigger (First time playing with this thing, really like it and have an idea to get it even better)
Spikes Adjustable Gas Block
Spikes T2 Buffer
Thunderbeast Arms 223P-1 Suppressor
ErgoGrip Suregrip
SMI Lower Parts Kit
Magpul Stock
SMI Tactical Charging Handle (WAY better than your standard milspec handle)
SMI M4 223 WYLDE 1:7" twist 16" barrel. Nano-ceramic bore coat with Parkerized exterior.
PWS Enhanced Milspec Buffer Tube
There are some ways to cut the cost down quite a bit on cost. Going with a standard milspec forged upper/lower from SMI for $260 instead of the Seekins and BRO Billet route. Standard coatings on the BCG and lower parks kit instead of the Ceraplate or NickelBoron. Let me know if you're interested!
You can check out some of the parts listed on my website if you're interested...
www.hellscanyonarmory.com (http://www.hellscanyonarmory.com)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1246.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg602%2FHellsCanyonArmory%2FAR-Ryans.jpg&hash=848b0568325147f64855f51457706f33cc9563fd)
Mike
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 11, 2012, 07:40:39 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 12, 2012, 12:14:58 AM
What does a gun like that one pictured go for?
PM inbound... :)
Mike
Post by: jbendewald on December 12, 2012, 01:21:02 AM
From reading the press releases on the Windham Weaponry I don't think you could go wrong for the price. I intend to buy one as soon as finances allow. (they are the original manufacturer of BushMaster)
You want to get the tightest barrel twist possible, 1-7 or 1-9, a flat top upper for ease of mounting a scope, (you can always get the "bolt on rear sight / handle and front sight" for a traditional AR look)
and you want a chrome plated chamber and barrel. Lacking these two things was the main reason for malfunctions during the initial debut of the M16 in Viet Nam.
Post by: jaymark6655 on December 12, 2012, 04:03:46 AM
One new AR on the market is Windham Weaponry. Do a google search on Windham Weaponry and I think you will have your answer about what AR to buy. Their company mission statement says it all! Hurry, before the prices go up! I have two Colt ARs, a 16 inch light barrel and a 20 inch HBAR and a DPMS upper that fits both lowers. Haven't shot the DPMS lower yet but I can tell you that both Colts will handle any ammo you choose to put through them. From cheap steel case surplus to custom hand loads they eat it all with never a failure.I always heard that, "GIs where told the rifle didn't need to be cleaned." Of course while I was in had to clean that thing everyday, sometimes twice a day...never had one malfunction though; except for one rifle that fired so far left that even with the sights adjusted all the way right, I was still hitting the target next to mine.
From reading the press releases on the Windham Weaponry I don't think you could go wrong for the price. I intend to buy one as soon as finances allow. (they are the original manufacturer of BushMaster)
You want to get the tightest barrel twist possible, 1-7 or 1-9, a flat top upper for ease of mounting a scope, (you can always get the "bolt on rear sight / handle and front sight" for a traditional AR look)
and you want a chrome plated chamber and barrel. Lacking these two things was the main reason for malfunctions during the initial debut of the M16 in Viet Nam.
The bolt on sight are great, but don't go too cheap on those or the adjustments will suck. Also, some don't come with elevation, just windage and other that do have elevation usually don't adjust as far as the A2 style uppers with the carry handle. Probably doesn't matter unless you want to try CMP or something though.
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 12, 2012, 09:53:06 AM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 12, 2012, 10:46:47 AM
And metal coatings have come along way from Vietnam. Chrome lined barrels aren't bad, but they certainly aren't required to be reliable either. Proper maintenance will go a lot farther that having a chrome lined barrel.
Mike
Post by: tlbradford on December 12, 2012, 10:52:57 AM
I think you really need to figure out what you want, before you start shopping. Go handle a carbine, mid-length, and rifle length AR and decide which you like best. Then you can go from there.
Post by: MichaelJ on December 12, 2012, 11:10:59 AM
If you are interested in the best value for your money, meaning reliability for a low cost, than Spikes or Del-ton will save you several hundred dollars. I personally couldn't justify spending a grand on something, when I could get the same parts for $500. The photo you posted earlier looks like a carbine length gas block, 14 or 16" lightweight barrel, holographic site, and a flip up back up site. This is a great choice for protection, and close quarters hunting. If that is what you want then the rifle can be built inexpensively and you would have money for your site and a little bit left for ammo. If you want a longer range weapon, than you are going to want to get into some more costly upgrades, match grade barrel, and a great trigger that will increase the cost by quite a bit.
I think you really need to figure out what you want, before you start shopping. Go handle a carbine, mid-length, and rifle length AR and decide which you like best. Then you can go from there.
Solid advice TL, one thing I'll mention though is that we regularly shoot 16" AR's out to 600 yards on steel and they have no problem reaching that distance and being accurate. Sure the wind bucks you a bit but if you have the optics and dope to reach out there 16" is plenty of length...
And I agree that you could build a similar bushmaster or colt style AR for lots less money! And if you did buy one for $1100, you'd likely want to upgrade the trigger which is going to be $175+, new grip (least for me, hate most factory grips) for another $30, and then optics or sights. These guns are the "Legos" of the grown up toy world and there are a million different parts out there for them!
Mike
Post by: deerhunter_98520 on December 12, 2012, 12:20:46 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 12, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
I primarily want this for coyote hunting. I am a good shot but don't really plan on ever shooting over 3-400 yards. Realistically 0-300 yards is what most of my shots are. So, will a standard M4 model with 16" heavy barrel be adequate and still have great accuracy, or should I lean more towards the 20" heavy barrel? Obviously the secondary use would be SHTF where the shorter M4 model / barrel would be ideal, but don't really think it will ever be used for this reason.
Is a 16" heavy barrel capable of 300-400 yard yard shots accurately? Scoped and off rest obviously!!
Post by: h20hunter on December 12, 2012, 12:43:30 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on December 12, 2012, 12:46:42 PM
OK...here is the question I have for all you guys.
I primarily want this for coyote hunting. I am a good shot but don't really plan on ever shooting over 3-400 yards. Realistically 0-300 yards is what most of my shots are. So, will a standard M4 model with 16" heavy barrel be adequate and still have great accuracy, or should I lean more towards the 20" heavy barrel? Obviously the secondary use would be SHTF where the shorter M4 model / barrel would be ideal, but don't really think it will ever be used for this reason.
Is a 16" heavy barrel capable of 300-400 yard yard shots accurately? Scoped and off rest obviously!!
16" heavy barrel is plenty for what you want to do. A good majority of our 3 gun shoots have stages out to 400 yards and the majority of shooters are running 16" barrels. Still see a lot of 18"-20" though too.
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Huntbear on December 12, 2012, 01:06:16 PM
IS there any set rules on what makes up a light weight vs. heavy vs. bull barrel???? also why does everyone have to have a different name for their barrel contours.. drives me insane.. since most do not give diameters on the barrels, other than right at the gas block.. I want a heavy fluted barrel... NOT a bull barrel.. trying to find one that matches what I am looking for, is absolutely driving me up the wall... Black Hole is about the easiest to figure out in my mind.. but damn.. can we not have some conformity in what contour is what????
Post by: MichaelJ on December 12, 2012, 01:35:42 PM
ok, so on barrels...
IS there any set rules on what makes up a light weight vs. heavy vs. bull barrel???? also why does everyone have to have a different name for their barrel contours.. drives me insane.. since most do not give diameters on the barrels, other than right at the gas block.. I want a heavy fluted barrel... NOT a bull barrel.. trying to find one that matches what I am looking for, is absolutely driving me up the wall... Black Hole is about the easiest to figure out in my mind.. but damn.. can we not have some conformity in what contour is what????
Barrel contours are definitely not standardized, especially AR Barrels. And 'Heavy' is a relative term...
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Huntbear on December 12, 2012, 04:31:41 PM
ok, so on barrels...
IS there any set rules on what makes up a light weight vs. heavy vs. bull barrel???? also why does everyone have to have a different name for their barrel contours.. drives me insane.. since most do not give diameters on the barrels, other than right at the gas block.. I want a heavy fluted barrel... NOT a bull barrel.. trying to find one that matches what I am looking for, is absolutely driving me up the wall... Black Hole is about the easiest to figure out in my mind.. but damn.. can we not have some conformity in what contour is what????
Barrel contours are definitely not standardized, especially AR Barrels. And 'Heavy' is a relative term...
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Heavy as in:
NOT a lightweight, but not a .900 bull barrel either.. something that can be carried without killing you when moving from set up to set up .... something you can flute so if you do shoot some rapid fire, it will cool quickly and easily.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 12, 2012, 06:36:25 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 10:12:32 AM
Post by: Huntbear on December 13, 2012, 10:17:25 AM
Most "standard contour" barrels take a .750" diameter gas block. Bull barrels take a .900" diameter gas block. There is a .650" (?) diameter gas block for real pencil-thin barrels, but I've never seen one. Most all "hunter" weight barrels will be what the military called H-Bar barrels, except you can get them fluted to reduce weight. They will take the .750" gas block. Some of the Varmint ARs have a 16" bull barrel, but I'm too old to want to carry one. :chuckle:
I want something that is basically equivelant to a #5 or 6 contour on a bolt gun barrel... A magnum contour so to speak? Not so heavy it is not useable or carryable, but stiff enough and heavy enough to be a tack driver with handloads, but still able to use it as a defense weapon. I want the perfect barrel that is the best of both worlds, hunting and tactical...
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 13, 2012, 10:40:20 AM
Most "standard contour" barrels take a .750" diameter gas block. Bull barrels take a .900" diameter gas block. There is a .650" (?) diameter gas block for real pencil-thin barrels, but I've never seen one. Most all "hunter" weight barrels will be what the military called H-Bar barrels, except you can get them fluted to reduce weight. They will take the .750" gas block. Some of the Varmint ARs have a 16" bull barrel, but I'm too old to want to carry one. :chuckle:
I want something that is basically equivelant to a #5 or 6 contour on a bolt gun barrel... A magnum contour so to speak? Not so heavy it is not useable or carryable, but stiff enough and heavy enough to be a tack driver with handloads, but still able to use it as a defense weapon. I want the perfect barrel that is the best of both worlds, hunting and tactical...
I think what you want is what I have on all my ARs, and that is what the military called an H-Bar contour. Not the standard military barrel with the groove for bayonet or other accessory attachments. The whole length of the barrel is a bit smaller than the .750" gas block area. I have both 16" and 20" barrels, fluted and unfluted. Fluting only reduces weight, and claims that the barrel cools faster. Increasing the surface area of the barrel might dissipate heat a bit faster, but not so much that I noticed it. Looks cool, though! I got 1/2" groups with my Rock River Coyote Rifle (20" barrel) with a 1-3x Leupold scope at 100 yds. Not too bad for a shaky old guy like me. That gun has since been fitted with a more powerful scope. They all shoot good. Just a matter of what you want to carry, but it sounds like a standard non-bull barrel would be the ticket for you.
Post by: thinkingman on December 13, 2012, 12:45:27 PM
I want it in .223....i will use it for coyotes mostly....but if shtf i want one that i could rely on for that...or if they start screwin with a assult weapon ban again like im hearing rumblings about i want to get one before it happens.....how hard are they to put together if i built one....ive never built a gun before be have seen alot of guys onbhere talk about it.....i work on my own vehicles....i may not know alot about mechanical work but im not afraid to tear crap apart and figure it out as i go :chuckle:I have and you describe a Rock River Predator Pursuit.
HBar match grade 1/8...shoots HSM factory 77gr MatchKings into tiny little groups.
Guarantees (and delivers!)3/4MOA accuracy.
All the goodies except the boy-racer picatinny festival and collapsible buttstock.
I wouldn't have the last two.
And can be had for under your $1200, except for sights/optics.
I have a 5.5-20 Nikon Monarch that's nearly as big as the rifle.
Makes it easy on yourself.
And the resale is better than a Frankengun if I want to sell.
Post by: Tom Tamer on December 15, 2012, 07:03:25 PM
Post by: Huntbear on December 15, 2012, 08:38:27 PM
Post by: xd2005 on December 15, 2012, 09:08:32 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 15, 2012, 09:17:24 PM
Does barrel length dictate desired twist?It can, but not necessarily. Usually the longer barrels with faster twist would be for the heavier bullets. If you use the shorter gas system with a long barrel and a heavy round, the gun may begin to cycle before the bullet exits the muzzle. Just barely cycling--but it breaks the seal formed from the expanded case--pressure/velocity might not be as consistent as it could be.
Post by: xd2005 on December 15, 2012, 09:24:22 PM
What is considered light vs heavy bullet?
Thanks!
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 15, 2012, 09:41:02 PM
So if someone was looking 20in, they would want to go with rifle-length gas system and maybe 1/7 twist (with heavier bullet) or mid-length and 1/9 twist (for lighter bullet)?
What is considered light vs heavy bullet?
Thanks!
I'm not sure where the breaking point is, but I consider 50 grain and under "light", 55 grain as "standard" and 60 grain and higher as "heavy". I load mostly 55 grainers for the .223. Tried some 60 grain bullets, and accuracy was excellent. The 55s are accurate enough for hunting, and they seem to be the easiest to come by at a decent price.
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 15, 2012, 10:40:42 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 17, 2012, 08:01:51 PM
Thanks
Johnny
Post by: MichaelJ on December 17, 2012, 08:19:58 PM
So I am nearing the edge and almost ready to jump, buying my first AR!! I am buying a full gun and will build my next. A question I have is; What is the difference between a california legal AR and all others. I keep seeing this and cannot figure out the difference. I will probably be buying one off the internet and don't want to by a california legal gun if it significantly different.
Thanks
Johnny
Pretty sure the California models come with a ten round mag.... can't say for sure if that is the only difference though!
Mike
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Post by: 300rum on December 17, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
So I am nearing the edge and almost ready to jump, buying my first AR!! I am buying a full gun and will build my next. A question I have is; What is the difference between a california legal AR and all others. I keep seeing this and cannot figure out the difference. I will probably be buying one off the internet and don't want to by a california legal gun if it significantly different.
Thanks
Johnny
Post by: jrebel on December 17, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
Post by: 300rum on December 17, 2012, 09:14:01 PM
I was in a shop today (Monday A.M.) and there were no less than 10 guns sold within an hour of the store opening. I tried to buy some mags online and the website went down. What was left on the shelf were a few Colts and a couple of .308's, the most expensive stuff. All the cheap stuff was gone.
Seems all major manufacturers have Cali guns for sale. I am finding them on Gunbroker and other websites. I don't believe it will be an issue to find one in the coming weeks. Maybe after the first of the year???
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 17, 2012, 09:32:50 PM
So I am nearing the edge and almost ready to jump, buying my first AR!! I am buying a full gun and will build my next. A question I have is; What is the difference between a california legal AR and all others. I keep seeing this and cannot figure out the difference. I will probably be buying one off the internet and don't want to by a california legal gun if it significantly different.
Thanks
Johnny
Pretty sure the California models come with a ten round mag.... can't say for sure if that is the only difference though!
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
I think Cali. ARs used to be blocked so that they can only be fired single-shot. They may have lightened up on the magazine restrictions recently. Not sure.
Post by: newred on December 17, 2012, 09:44:17 PM
Post by: jrebel on December 17, 2012, 09:48:14 PM
Correct me if I am wrong....
Johnny
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 17, 2012, 09:48:19 PM
Post by: tlbradford on December 20, 2012, 01:23:56 PM
Post by: Caseyd on December 20, 2012, 04:18:38 PM
Couldn't fnd a stripped lower at the shops in Spokane Valley. 90% of their AR's and Mini 14's were sold. Hi capacity mags are sold out everywhere I have checked.
Stipped lowers for $400
PMags for $35
:bash:
Post by: whacker1 on December 20, 2012, 06:26:44 PM
Couldn't fnd a stripped lower at the shops in Spokane Valley. 90% of their AR's and Mini 14's were sold. Hi capacity mags are sold out everywhere I have checked.
I bought the last of the lowers in town yesterday and watched guys buying 10-40 p-mags at a time.
Best of luck to everyone on back order, wait list, etc.
Post by: Huntbear on December 20, 2012, 06:43:25 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 20, 2012, 06:46:23 PM
Big Candy Gun. :dunno:
Post by: JLS on December 20, 2012, 06:49:50 PM
Post by: TheHunt on December 20, 2012, 07:04:07 PM
Man it is crazy as to the run on parts, ammo, etc...
Post by: 280ackley on December 20, 2012, 07:14:42 PM
Anyone know where you can get BCG for a decent price???? :dunno: :dunno:
Have you tried www.rainierarms.com (http://www.rainierarms.com) yet?
Post by: Austrian Hunter on December 20, 2012, 07:32:46 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 20, 2012, 08:01:23 PM
Anyone know where you can get BCG for a decent price???? :dunno: :dunno:
Don't know what you call a decent price, but One Shot Firearms in Wenatchee had one left tonite--Just under $160.00.
They had a stripped lower and a few stripped uppers. No parts kits, but one or two RRA 2-stage NM triggers, assorted parts. Call @ 10:00 tomorrow to see if they have what you need.
Post by: tlbradford on December 20, 2012, 08:03:39 PM
Couldn't fnd a stripped lower at the shops in Spokane Valley. 90% of their AR's and Mini 14's were sold. Hi capacity mags are sold out everywhere I have checked.
I bought the last of the lowers in town yesterday and watched guys buying 10-40 p-mags at a time.
Best of luck to everyone on back order, wait list, etc.
Glad you found some. I was able to finally find some mags online, so I ordered up 20. I just couldn't leave the shop without picking up a S&W 642 though. Unfortunately, it took about 6 hours for the background check to go through. They are swamped and the line is busy a lot. So I get to pick it up tomorrow. I had been looking for somethign smaller for summertime carry.
Post by: Huntbear on December 20, 2012, 08:10:28 PM
Anyone know where you can get BCG for a decent price???? :dunno: :dunno:
Don't know what you call a decent price, but One Shot Firearms in Wenatchee had one left tonite--Just under $160.00.
They had a stripped lower and a few stripped uppers. No parts kits, but one or two RRA 2-stage NM triggers, assorted parts. Call @ 10:00 tomorrow to see if they have what you need.
Thanks.
Post by: bow-n-head on December 21, 2012, 08:19:25 AM
Post by: halflife65 on December 21, 2012, 08:21:46 AM
If I was the kind of guy that would own any sort of firearm (for the internet record, I don't have ANY) I would be bummed.