Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 02:35:19 PM
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it. :twocents:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 02:41:32 PM
I supported and will continue to support gated roads, if you really want it then get off of you A#$ and out of your truck and go get it. That's hunting, not road killing. :tup:Agree Plat. :tup:
Post by: jackmaster on December 13, 2012, 02:42:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 02:45:23 PM
Seriously, does the forest service even have gates on all the roads? Forgive me for asking, but I've only hunted the Entiat once and that was 8 years ago.
Then we did hunt Chiwawa the year after that and I don't recall seeing many gates.
I do agree something needs to be done, and gates are about the only option.
I don't agree with locking it up on September 1st. That would just concentrate hunters more, within a couple miles of the gates, and leave a lot of country untouched.
I'd say shut it down on December 1st.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 02:51:48 PM
What gates?December is too late IMO and if you are going to lock them before December then you have to go all the way back to Sept 1st so no one group has a advantage.
Seriously, does the forest service even have gates on all the roads? That would just concentrate hunters more, within a couple miles of the gates, and leave a lot of country untouched.
I'd say shut it down on December 1st.
You don't need to gate all the roads, just the main ones that lead into all the others. I don't care about too many hunters only walking in a mile, you want to get away from those guys then walk a little further. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 02:57:07 PM
Where would everyone park?
How about closing them after the general rifle season is over, and then give keys to those who draw a late rifle or archery permit?
Post by: fishngamereaper on December 13, 2012, 02:59:20 PM
I think gating/ tank traping the side roads would help, but leave one main line road open. Im all for hiking but would you seriously hike from the bottom of the entiat/swakane, etc. to the top of it..even hard core guys would only get in 5 miles and call it a day. :twocents:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 03:01:52 PM
My only problem I have with locked gates, is it descriminates older hunters. My dad, is in descent shape for 66 years old he can gets out and hunts. But he cannot hike in several miles and then start pushing canyons. And if he shoots one he is even more screwed, becuase he has to get it out. Imagine applying for sevearal years to get drawn. Then you finally get drawn and they lock the gates on you.
Other then that....go ahead and lock them. I don't have a problem hiking in. But I am also 36 years old and in great shapel.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:02:51 PM
So you'd gate every road that goes off the Entiat River road?Yes, install gates 1/4 mile up the dirt and lock them, plenty of room to park for everyone along the side of the road.
Where would everyone park?
No! If you are not going to allow all the user groups to drive in there then none of them should be able too, too much whining and bitching if you don't. Just lock it from motorized vehicles, everyone can still access it if they want, they just have to work a little bit harder.
How about closing them after the general rifle season is over, and then give keys to those who draw a late rifle or archery permit?
Its the only way to stop 95% of the BS that is going on in these areas.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
Road killing by all users groups is my biggest concern.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 03:04:49 PM
So you'd gate every road that goes off the Entiat River road?
Where would everyone park?
How about closing them after the general rifle season is over, and then give keys to those who draw a late rifle or archery permit?
BOBCAT- Did you get that deer in your photo in the Entiat? Nice buck!
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:06:44 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 03:08:59 PM
Quote
Its the only way to stop 95% of the BS that is going on in these areas.
Why wouldn't my idea work? The poaching that goes on up there begins in November. If motorized access was shut down to everyone except permit holders in October, the poaching just wouldn't happen.
Your idea would be a tough sell.
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 03:10:35 PM
Quote
BOBCAT- Did you get that deer in your photo in the Entiat? Nice buck!
Yes I did. Thanks!
Post by: boneaddict on December 13, 2012, 03:10:56 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on December 13, 2012, 03:13:19 PM
I supported and will continue to support gated roads, if you really want it then get off of you A#$ and out of your truck and go get it. That's hunting, not road killing. :tup::yeah:
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 03:13:26 PM
Quote
You start giving out keys to some then you'll have to share them with others and you know the ones I'm talking about. Just be straight across the board no motorized access period or put up gates/barricades.
Good point. You're probably right about that. Scratch that idea.
I'd be for closing roads Sept 1, as long as some main lines are left open, as you also stated in a previous post.
Post by: npaull on December 13, 2012, 03:14:14 PM
In places there are already roads, I like the idea of leaving one main, low-elevation road open for at least most of the season, but gating off all the spurs.
Post by: boneaddict on December 13, 2012, 03:15:37 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 03:18:15 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:19:30 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:19:45 PM
What is the problem with the gates open now? I am tyring to learn.I feel for the old guys/gals that would not be able to go all the way up in there but thats life. There are lots of things I have had to stop doing as I got older, its just part of life, harsh I know but it is what it is. Its time to do something about this now or there won't be much left for our kids down the road. One of the two groups are going to suffer, the old or the young. Much less people in the long run will be effected if we lock them now. :twocents:
My only problem I have with locked gates, is it descriminates older hunters. My dad, is in descent shape for 66 years old he can gets out and hunts. But he cannot hike in several miles and then start pushing canyons. And if he shoots one he is even more screwed, becuase he has to get it out. Imagine applying for sevearal years to get drawn. Then you finally get drawn and they lock the gates on you.
Other then that....go ahead and lock them. I don't have a problem hiking in. But I am also 36 years old and in great shapel.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 13, 2012, 03:20:31 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 13, 2012, 03:21:23 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:25:23 PM
This is why I support the creation of wilderness areas...I don't, I'd hate to see Gregoire have anything to do with hunting or accessing these areas in the future, should she ever get control.
In places there are already roads, I like the idea of leaving one main, low-elevation road open for at least most of the season, but gating off all the spurs.That would be okay too I guess, as long as the roads off of it were gated.
I'd even sponsor a gate+1 :tup:
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 03:28:27 PM
NO NEW WILDERNESS AREAS!
what would your solution to the problem be ??
if poaching an over harvest is the issue than a gate would seem like a good idea..
if we manage for our own interests then we are no different than the "greenies"
manage for what good for the area, not the people :twocents: (even though there one of the same)
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 03:29:03 PM
Poaching on one end and overharvesting of another.
I'm assuming the poaching is the locals, who feel like the deer are THEIR DEER. And the over harvesting must be natives taking advantage of the system. Why doesn't the game department setup cameras to monitor what is going on? And why doesn't the tribe work with them to monitor the over harvesting. Perhaps they work together and patrol the area to discourage poaching and over harvesting. If you lock the gates, then it gives all the more reason for someone to go back there and feel protected from getting caught. All they are going to do is hike in, take apack, shoot what they want, bone it out, and use a cell phone to call for a ride back.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:32:38 PM
Its not going to stop everyone, it will likely stop 95% or more though, and better than status quo.Poaching on one end and overharvesting of another.
I'm assuming the poaching is the locals, who feel like the deer are THEIR DEER. And the over harvesting must be natives taking advantage of the system. Why doesn't the game department setup cameras to monitor what is going on? And why doesn't the tribe work with them to monitor the over harvesting. Perhaps they work together and patrol the area to discourage poaching and over harvesting. If you lock the gates, then it gives all the more reason for someone to go back there and feel protected from getting caught. All they are going to do is hike in, take apack, shoot what they want, bone it out, and use a cell phone to call for a ride back.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 13, 2012, 03:32:57 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:35:25 PM
Poaching on one end and overharvesting of another.
I'm assuming the poaching is the locals, who feel like the deer are THEIR DEER. And the over harvesting must be natives taking advantage of the system. Why doesn't the game department setup cameras to monitor what is going on? And why doesn't the tribe work with them to monitor the over harvesting. Perhaps they work together and patrol the area to discourage poaching and over harvesting. If you lock the gates, then it gives all the more reason for someone to go back there and feel protected from getting caught. All they are going to do is hike in, take apack, shoot what they want, bone it out, and use a cell phone to call for a ride back.
It's going to take a lot of documented evidence for some type of change from one end and without documentation/credible proof it's all just hearsay (not my words). I think we need to start some where for the survival and continued enjoyment of the natural resources and I'd love to see it come in my life time.
As far as poachers, seeing somebody coming out like that would be suspicious and there would be those that got away but it would not be as bad as it is now. And I don't know if poachers would go to that extent, i'm not saying they would but, I don't think they would?
Post by: Harborhunter on December 13, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 03:38:18 PM
I'd for sure be paying an outfitter for a drop camp 10-15 miles in.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:40:43 PM
I could see outfitters profiting off this if it ever happened.Nothing wrong with that Bob, just no vehicles. :tup:
I'd for sure be paying an outfitter for a drop camp 10-15 miles in.
Post by: Jingles on December 13, 2012, 03:41:36 PM
To curb the number of animals being poached they need to really HAMMER the persons that are doing it when caught.
All these early and late season permits need to be put into a general pool and forget em extend the seasons for everyone instead of just for those that have the money to afford them, why have a 9 day general season and then extend it 2 weeks for a select few just make the season 21 days for everyone and the hunter decides when he/ she wants to hunt
Do away with a hunter having to make a choice which type of hunting he wants to do Archery, Muzzie or Modern. You buy a tag and it allows you to hunt with the weapon of your choice. If you go out during archery season and get a deer your hunting is over, if you aren't successful you get another chance during general and if you still want to use archery equipment nothing is stopping you. With the improvements of "muzzleloaders now they should fall into the general/ modern firearms category.
Do away with the trophy permits also seeing as how that season is after the general season and during the "rut" you want a trophy get out and find one instead of having a special season that excludes the majority of the population.
Basically put everyone on a level playing field for the real wall hangers
Just my :twocents:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:42:53 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 13, 2012, 03:42:58 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:46:17 PM
First off USFS, DNR and State land is PUBLIC property and should be accessible to the public year round without any damn Discovery pass, access permit, or FS permit. So no they should not lock/ install gates or tank raps on historic roads ( roads that have been in place for in excess of 20 or 30 years)Problem is there is one user group that have no rules and can't be touched. Only way to keep most of them from abusing the resource is to lock it down for everyone's vehicles. If you want to hunt it, then walk or ride.
To curb the number of animals being poached they need to really HAMMER the persons that are doing it when caught.
All these early and late season permits need to be put into a general pool and forget em extend the seasons for everyone instead of just for those that have the money to afford them, why have a 9 day general season and then extend it 2 weeks for a select few just make the season 21 days for everyone and the hunter decides when he/ she wants to hunt
Do away with a hunter having to make a choice which type of hunting he wants to do Archery, Muzzie or Modern. You buy a tag and it allows you to hunt with the weapon of your choice. If you go out during archery season and get a deer your hunting is over, if you aren't successful you get another chance during general and if you still want to use archery equipment nothing is stopping you. With the improvements of "muzzleloaders now they should fall into the general/ modern firearms category.
Do away with the trophy permits also seeing as how that season is after the general season and during the "rut" you want a trophy get out and find one instead of having a special season that excludes the majority of the population.
Basically put everyone on a level playing field for the real wall hangers
Just my :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:47:13 PM
Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.I think that would work well.
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 03:49:05 PM
Which the problem then becomes, where does the money come from, for all these new gates.
Post by: Jingles on December 13, 2012, 03:50:40 PM
Quote
Problem is there is one user group that have no rules and can't be touched. Only way to keep most of them from abusing the resource is to lock it down for everyone's vehicles. If you want to hunt it, then walk or ride.
If you're talking about the user group I think you are that can be solved very easily the only time they can hunt outside the state hunting times is if they are on the res.. if Off the res they are poaching
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 03:51:59 PM
Problem is there is one user group that have no rules and can't be touched. Only way to keep most of them from abusing the resource is to lock it down for everyone's vehicles. If you want to hunt it, then walk or ride.If you're talking about the user group I think you are that can be solved very easily the only time they can hunt outside the state hunting times is if they are on the res.. if Off the res they are poaching
[/quote]
Not going to happen. That's why I suggested 1 main road through the unit.
Another issue is you can't do this to just one unit. The other adjacent units would then end up being over hunted.
Which the problem then becomes, where does the money come from, for all these new gates.
Discover Pass? Sorry, I couldn't help it. :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 03:58:50 PM
You sure have not been paying attention.QuoteProblem is there is one user group that have no rules and can't be touched. Only way to keep most of them from abusing the resource is to lock it down for everyone's vehicles. If you want to hunt it, then walk or ride.the only time they can hunt outside the state hunting times is if they are on the res.. if Off the res they are poaching
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 04:03:20 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 13, 2012, 04:05:56 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 13, 2012, 04:08:51 PM
I'm sure this will get shot all to hell, but if they had any pride, they'd being taking steps to managing this natural resource, instead of trophy hunt it. Obviously they know what's happening up here, and there hasn't been anything done to my knowledge to control it. I'm damned sure their ancestors hadn't invisioned it this way at all.
Post by: Jingles on December 13, 2012, 04:11:21 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.I'm sorry you are disabled but this state gives out handicapped parking permits to those that the only way they are handicapped is by being a lard azz. Look in the store next time and see who it is using the handicapped shopping carts or parking in the handicapped zones.. those that the exercise would do the most good.
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:13:18 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: 724wd on December 13, 2012, 04:15:25 PM
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:16:17 PM
So you believe that everyone that has a disable placard is a lard a$$ and should just be put to sleep because they are what you said to lazy to do something about their health? WOW, to hear some of these statements makes me hope that for your sake you don't end up disabled and wanting my help when you cant get out of your chair or from off of the floor :bash: >:(What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.I'm sorry you are disabled but this state gives out handicapped parking permits to those that the only way they are handicapped is by being a lard azz. Look in the store next time and see who it is using the handicapped shopping carts or parking in the handicapped zones.. those that the exercise would do the most good.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:17:10 PM
Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: MtnMuley on December 13, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
As far as I know, this topic was started so we could discuss managing a critical resource, during a critical time, on critical lands. Not so people could whine. PS, I thought you said you hated eating deer meat?
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:18:55 PM
Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: MtnMuley on December 13, 2012, 04:20:07 PM
Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
I think I smell somebody that needs a salt and vinegar bath. ;)
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:20:18 PM
where do non-hunters fit into this? say i wanna take my kids out in the woods and drive around looking at stuff? :dunno:There are a few other roads in this state that you can take your kids out in the woods, I seriously doubt your kids will be damaged if they can't take a drive down one of the few roads in these specific areas.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 04:20:56 PM
Obviously they know what's happening up here, and there hasn't been anything done to my knowledge to control it.
You expect them to know what 10,000+ other people do? If I don't, what makes you think our Leaders do? I have way more time then they do and if I don't know every single one of those 10,000+ plus members then I can guarantee they don't.
I spoke with some and they had no idea what I was talking about and to them since I was repeating what I was told it held no bearing. Unless the person that saw it was willing to say it either in person or put it down on writing then it's all hearsay and never happened.
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 04:21:33 PM
problem..people just MAKE IT complex cuz everyone is out for them selves in this state...its the "fu" an hurrah for me mentality
stop over complicating things..just do whats good for the critters :twocents:
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:21:33 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:22:32 PM
Agreed but I didn't say it. It absolutely does matter if you hunt in these areas, if you don't then it wouldn't even effect you.Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: MtnMuley on December 13, 2012, 04:25:02 PM
Obviously they know what's happening up here, and there hasn't been anything done to my knowledge to control it.
You expect them to know what 10,000+ other people do? If I don't, what makes you think our Leaders do? I have way more time then they do and if I don't know every single one of those 10,000+ plus members then I can guarantee they don't.
I spoke with some and they had no idea what I was talking about and to them since I was repeating what I was told it held no bearing. Unless the person that saw it was willing to say it either in person or put it down on writing then it's all hearsay and never happened.
Plat,
I've called the Nation several times about this issue. I finally gave up because I was getting nowhere, and they said there was nothing they could really do. That was two years ago. If you'd be so kind as to give me the number again, I'd happily continue my "civilized approach" calling.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 04:25:21 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.I'm sorry you are disabled but this state gives out handicapped parking permits to those that the only way they are handicapped is by being a lard azz. Look in the store next time and see who it is using the handicapped shopping carts or parking in the handicapped zones.. those that the exercise would do the most good.
Real talk! Go to WalMart on the first Sunday at the first of the month. LMFAO
You can pretty much fake a back injury and get on perm disability, live off the state, and handi cap hunt. I am all for people who are LEGIT, but most handicapped people I see, are fat and have no ambition to change their situation.
I am in Medical Sales, prior I was a drug rep for 5 years. I use to watch people go in to see their doctor and listen to them complain to me in the waiting area, about the high cost of drugs. I would later leave and see them standing out in front of the doctors office smoking a cigerette, while hooked up to an oxygen tank. Life is what you make of it. The only people who have an excuss for being fat, are the ones who are on steriods for other medical issues, which force them to put on weight.
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:26:19 PM
Not directed at you Phool, I hunt the state of Washington from border to border. It doesn't effect me if not now, but someday this thought could happen throughout the state.Agreed but I didn't say it. It absolutely does matter if you hunt in these areas, if you don't then it wouldn't even effect you.Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:28:08 PM
I hear ya. I am only concerned with the few spots that this is a serious issue, not the entire state. ;)Not directed at you Phool, I hunt the state of Washington from border to border. It doesn't effect me if not now, but someday this thought could happen throughout the state.Agreed but I didn't say it. It absolutely does matter if you hunt in these areas, if you don't then it wouldn't even effect you.Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
I hear ya. I am only concerned with the few spots that this is a serious issue, not the entire state. ;)Not directed at you Phool, I hunt the state of Washington from border to border. It doesn't effect me if not now, but someday this thought could happen throughout the state.Agreed but I didn't say it. It absolutely does matter if you hunt in these areas, if you don't then it wouldn't even effect you.Does it truly matter which areas I hunt? For anyone to make a comment like that it completely out of line in regards to hunting.Do you both hunt in these areas?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
What are the roads you want gated?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 13, 2012, 04:32:18 PM
Post by: 724wd on December 13, 2012, 04:33:42 PM
stop over complicating things..just do whats good for the critters :twocents:
i can get on board with an explanation like this.
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 13, 2012, 04:39:22 PM
:yeah: close the gmu to protect the critterstop over complicating things..just do whats good for the critters :twocents:
i can get on board with an explanation like this.
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 04:40:27 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on December 13, 2012, 04:42:54 PM
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 04:43:34 PM
:yeah: close the gmu to protect the critterstop over complicating things..just do whats good for the critters :twocents:
i can get on board with an explanation like this.
lets do what we can "now" to prevent it from needing such drastic measures :tup:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 04:44:35 PM
I think what would be needed for this to happen, is biological data from the WDFW showing that there is a problem. Then the WDFW would have to work with the landowner (USFS) to get this done. It won't be easy. The tribe would probably get involved as well, and possibly get the governor on their side. Lately it seems our state government has been bending over backwards and trying to accommodate the tribes in every way possible, even if it's illegal.
CASINO MONEY
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:54:45 PM
I think what would be needed for this to happen, is biological data from the WDFW showing that there is a problem.Are you saying there isn't?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 13, 2012, 04:54:49 PM
Great. Lock gates and then only the tribes will have access.Hell thats what goes on here in my back yard :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: >:(
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 04:55:43 PM
Great. Lock gates and then only the tribes will have access.How does locking the gates give only tribes access? :dunno:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 13, 2012, 04:58:36 PM
Post by: buckcanyonlodge on December 13, 2012, 04:58:54 PM
What is the problem with the gates open now? I am tyring to learn.I feel for the old guys/gals that would not be able to go all the way up in there but thats life. There are lots of things I have had to stop doing as I got older, its just part of life, harsh I know but it is what it is. Its time to do something about this now or there won't be much left for our kids down the road. One of the two groups are going to suffer, the old or the young. Much less people in the long run will be effected if we lock them now. :twocents:
My only problem I have with locked gates, is it descriminates older hunters. My dad, is in descent shape for 66 years old he can gets out and hunts. But he cannot hike in several miles and then start pushing canyons. And if he shoots one he is even more screwed, becuase he has to get it out. Imagine applying for sevearal years to get drawn. Then you finally get drawn and they lock the gates on you.
Other then that....go ahead and lock them. I don't have a problem hiking in. But I am also 36 years old and in great shapel.
Hey how about we just have a physical test before you can buy a hunting license?? Say, hike 8 miles with a 40 pound pack and then go back and pack out a 200 lb animal. Can't do it...TOO BAD... NO LICENSE FOR YOU.... Life is a Bitch!! Go take up puzzle making you old farts. :bash: :bash:
Post by: wilsongideon on December 13, 2012, 05:02:17 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 05:02:34 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.I'm sorry you are disabled but this state gives out handicapped parking permits to those that the only way they are handicapped is by being a lard azz. Look in the store next time and see who it is using the handicapped shopping carts or parking in the handicapped zones.. those that the exercise would do the most good.
Real talk! Go to WalMart on the first Sunday at the first of the month. LMFAO
You can pretty much fake a back injury and get on perm disability, live off the state, and handi cap hunt. I am all for people who are LEGIT, but most handicapped people I see, are fat and have no ambition to change their situation.
I am in Medical Sales, prior I was a drug rep for 5 years. I use to watch people go in to see their doctor and listen to them complain to me in the waiting area, about the high cost of drugs. I would later leave and see them standing out in front of the doctors office smoking a cigerette, while hooked up to an oxygen tank. Life is what you make of it. The only people who have an excuss for being fat, are the ones who are on steriods for other medical issues, which force them to put on weight.
You might be thumping your chest, but what does FAT have to do with being disabled ? ALL people that are disabled aren't FAT or smoke or are on oxygen..........
Post by: gotcha on December 13, 2012, 05:04:58 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 05:06:18 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.:yeah:
As far as I know, this topic was started so we could discuss managing a critical resource, during a critical time, on critical lands. Not so people could whine. PS, I thought you said you hated eating deer meat?
Me disliking deer meat has nothing to do with locked gates, period !!
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 05:17:16 PM
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Post by: lemondog on December 13, 2012, 05:19:57 PM
And a Loin Cloth I might add!
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 05:20:20 PM
Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:
Post by: whacker1 on December 13, 2012, 05:23:30 PM
Post by: lemondog on December 13, 2012, 05:25:51 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 05:27:26 PM
I think what would be needed for this to happen, is biological data from the WDFW showing that there is a problem.Are you saying there isn't?
Isn't a problem? Or isn't data that show there is a problem?
What I'm saying is I don't know if they have the data, but either way, they will need it because they are the ones that will have to push for this idea of limiting access. I doubt the forest service will be in favor of this.
Post by: Hilltop123 on December 13, 2012, 05:29:44 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 05:33:39 PM
phool - I think you are missing the point. our state already bends over backwards to the tribes, and so much so that in many areas of the state, the tribes have keys and are the only ones allowed in. So if it is the tribes you want to keep out, that is not the solution. I don't have the solution, but wanted to make that point very clear.Are you telling me that if the state locked these areas they would have to give the tribes keys? Where is your info coming from.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 05:33:58 PM
Some general access. Gated spurs. SPECIAL ACCESS for DISABLED HUNTERS. Add a few "Premium" tags. Get in shape and have a great hunt!
.......or stop bitching and showing stupidity !
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 13, 2012, 05:37:52 PM
phool - I think you are missing the point. our state already bends over backwards to the tribes, and so much so that in many areas of the state, the tribes have keys and are the only ones allowed in. So if it is the tribes you want to keep out, that is not the solution. I don't have the solution, but wanted to make that point very clear.Are you telling me that if the state locked these areas they would have to give the tribes keys? Where is your info coming from.
I agree, Bobcat and whacker1, where's your proof to back up this theory? I have never heard of this happening in my area, not to say it might have happened. Where have you seen or heard this occur because I haven't heard of any such thing except earlier this year when WDFW employees got in trouble for handing out keys for bear hunts to reduce their numbers on timber company lands. Official report keys rescinded and end of story?
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 05:45:00 PM
Post by: whacker1 on December 13, 2012, 05:52:42 PM
phool - I think you are missing the point. our state already bends over backwards to the tribes, and so much so that in many areas of the state, the tribes have keys and are the only ones allowed in. So if it is the tribes you want to keep out, that is not the solution. I don't have the solution, but wanted to make that point very clear.Are you telling me that if the state locked these areas they would have to give the tribes keys? Where is your info coming from.
Other areas, where tribes is given keys. I don't know how they get them, which tribes are allowed access, or why, but I am sure it differs for every tribe and who the property owner is. I will see if I can get some details on the areas, but these types of things have gone on in different parts of the state for years. It always seemed like it was specific to public ground vs. private timber company ground. Sorry , I don't have specifics, but I haven't been in those areas for a very long time.
Post by: Black Ghost on December 13, 2012, 05:59:45 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 06:01:40 PM
Whos bitching and complaining? I have spent hours looking into this subject phool and your only logical plan is to lock the gates? We are only one user group, thousands of people pay their taxes, buy their access passess and every other pass a person needs to access and use state and forest service lands. What about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before? Its alot deeper then locking gates! Who is sitting back and accepting it? When you come up with a logical solution im all ears! I have lost sleep over this crap and everything i have looked into has been a dead end. I do know that the FS will lock roads if they are deamed unsafe for the public. Maybe thats the angle needed. Not sure what the solution is bud.Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 06:07:37 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.
Look I have a can of gas and a book of matches as well! :hello:
Throw in a 3 point restriction straight across the state for all deer and do away with Sunday hunting to give the herds a break.
13 States now have no hunting on Sunday.
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 06:08:06 PM
Quote
I agree, Bobcat and whacker1, where's your proof to back up this theory?
I don't have proof and it's not my theory. It's not the first time I've heard of It though.
If this is something we were going to try to push for, we would want to be sure that keys wouldn't be handed out to certain groups of people.
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 06:12:36 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.
and do away with Sunday hunting to give the herds a break.
13 States now have no hunting on Sunday.
thats not gona fly..weekend hunters only get half the time to hunt ??? people would stop hunting
:twocents:
i think the best idea has still been lock the gates and maybe keep the main rds open
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 06:17:24 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.LOL, sorry BG but this suggestion does nothing to address the issue. ;)
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 06:22:51 PM
They can still access, they just couldn't drive through it.We are only one user group, thousands of people pay their taxes, buy their access passess and every other pass a person needs to access and use state and forest service lands.Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:
Quote
What about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before?Some were locked earlier this year, where are the law suits?
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 06:23:09 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.
and do away with Sunday hunting to give the herds a break.
13 States now have no hunting on Sunday.
thats not gona fly..weekend hunters only get half the time to hunt ??? people would stop hunting
:twocents:
i think the best idea has still been lock the gates and maybe keep the main rds open
Well it must work since these states also have half time hunters
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-sunday-hunting-ban-statutes.aspx (http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-sunday-hunting-ban-statutes.aspx)
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 06:28:43 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.
and do away with Sunday hunting to give the herds a break.
13 States now have no hunting on Sunday.
thats not gona fly..weekend hunters only get half the time to hunt ??? people would stop hunting
:twocents:
i think the best idea has still been lock the gates and maybe keep the main rds open
Well it must work since these states also have half time hunters
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-sunday-hunting-ban-statutes.aspx (http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/env-res/state-sunday-hunting-ban-statutes.aspx)
no.."no sunday hunting" is only going to increase poaching,cut hunter numbers down,and make the religious happy..it wont solve any of the problems that a related to the main post :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 06:29:45 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 06:38:01 PM
If the gates are locked it just might keep the poachers out.
Perhaps it will cut hunter numbers,
It should make are Christian friends on here Ecstatic.
It would relieve the pressure on the herds by a bit.
Yes it would solve the problems related to the main post since it would also put less hunter's in the field which will allow the deer herds to rebuild. Since along with my proposal is a 3 point restriction State wide.
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 06:41:30 PM
Quote
Like I posted I have a can of gas and a new book of Matches!!!
Just a quick question- what are the gas and matches for? :dunno:
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 06:43:35 PM
QuoteLike I posted I have a can of gas and a new book of Matches!!!
Just a quick question- what are the gas and matches for? :dunno:
Just starting a fire. Figure of speech.
to see what kind of response this gets
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 06:54:04 PM
QuoteLike I posted I have a can of gas and a new book of Matches!!!
Just a quick question- what are the gas and matches for? :dunno:
Just starting a fire. Figure of speech.
to see what kind of response this gets
I thought it was for the lost greenies to get rescued by............ :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 06:56:31 PM
:chuckle:QuoteLike I posted I have a can of gas and a new book of Matches!!!
Just a quick question- what are the gas and matches for? :dunno:
Just starting a fire. Figure of speech.
to see what kind of response this gets
I thought it was for the lost greenies to get rescued by............ :chuckle:
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 06:57:51 PM
Your turn.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 07:03:32 PM
Why wouldn't it work anyway?
Your turn.
You know you could trade a gallon of gas for a roll in sack in the back of the Subaru with a hairy hippie chick........
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 13, 2012, 07:05:05 PM
Not really sure I want to trade any gas on the west side either. thats a scary/creepy topic.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 07:07:51 PM
I have no business in Curlew!! :chuckle:
Not really sure I want to trade any gas on the west side either. thats a scary/creepy topic.
..................too many hippies chicks, or too many Subaru's ?
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 07:25:04 PM
I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 13, 2012, 07:32:58 PM
O.K I LEFT AGAIN :chuckle: :chuckle: Eagles 13 bengals 10 in a state that does not allow hunting on Sunday too !!!! :yike:
Post by: 3nails on December 13, 2012, 07:42:44 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 07:46:17 PM
it is pretty bad you can not take your wife and kids for a ride to look for widlife and enjoy the outdoors ..This is just not right !LOL, I'd be willing to bet that you have never taken your wife and kids up into Oklahoma to just look at wildlife and enjoy the outdoors.
Post by: antlerking on December 13, 2012, 08:11:34 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 08:21:11 PM
The natives have the right to ask for the keys and if they ask the forest service has to accomidate that request.If the state closes a public road indians are not exempt from abiding by the law.
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 08:29:58 PM
Why were they locked Einstein? possibly fire danger and public safety? Still waiting for a logical solution. This crap is happening in my back yard, and it sucks knowing you cant do a dam thing about it. Tough pill to swallow, but its reality phool! I hope you can find a way like many of us in the valley have tried with no luck.They can still access, they just couldn't drive through it.We are only one user group, thousands of people pay their taxes, buy their access passess and every other pass a person needs to access and use state and forest service lands.Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:QuoteWhat about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before?Some were locked earlier this year, where are the law suits?
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 08:33:02 PM
Quote
What about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before?
This is pretty ridiculous, if true. Before the white man came, did they have roads into all these areas? Or did they walk or ride horses? With the roads gated, they are free to access those lands just as they did in the past- either by horse or by their own 2 feet.
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 08:37:34 PM
LOL, just like I said, whining and complaining without contibuting a suggestion, at least I'm trying and not crying.Why were they locked Einstein? possibly fire danger and public safety? Still waiting for a logical solution. This crap is happening in my back yard, and it sucks knowing you cant do a dam thing about it. Tough pill to swallow, but its reality phool! I hope you can find a way like many of us in the valley have tried with no luck.They can still access, they just couldn't drive through it.We are only one user group, thousands of people pay their taxes, buy their access passess and every other pass a person needs to access and use state and forest service lands.Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:QuoteWhat about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before?Some were locked earlier this year, where are the law suits?
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 08:39:38 PM
Whos complaining bud? Ive faced reality man, YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 08:45:01 PM
Guess im missing the crying and complaining part. Have you looked in a mirror lately bud? Because i have excepted the fact that nothing will change!LOL, just like I said, whining and complaining without contibuting a suggestion, at least I'm trying and not crying.Why were they locked Einstein? possibly fire danger and public safety? Still waiting for a logical solution. This crap is happening in my back yard, and it sucks knowing you cant do a dam thing about it. Tough pill to swallow, but its reality phool! I hope you can find a way like many of us in the valley have tried with no luck.They can still access, they just couldn't drive through it.We are only one user group, thousands of people pay their taxes, buy their access passess and every other pass a person needs to access and use state and forest service lands.Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:QuoteWhat about law suits by the tribes for locking gates that give them access to their "ancestrial hunting grounds" in wich have never been locked before?Some were locked earlier this year, where are the law suits?
Post by: kentrek on December 13, 2012, 08:47:07 PM
I'm just stunned how a few on here can turn any thread into Christian bashing. During hunting season my church is in the mountains on Sundays. It would not make me happy (being "religeous") to have that day closed to hunting, thank you.
i wasnt meaning to step on your toes in my statement :hello: just saying that was the main reason for no hunting on Sundays as far as i know
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 08:49:30 PM
Probably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 13, 2012, 08:53:38 PM
Probably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
It's "damn", not dam. A dam is for holding water back and releasing it slowly, unless that's what you meant.. :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 08:54:48 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 08:57:36 PM
Thanks for the correctionProbably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
It's "damn", not dam. A dam is for holding water back and releasing it slowly, unless that's what you meant.. :tup:
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 09:04:02 PM
Good luck in your quest, and thanks for permission to hit the EZ-Chair and i just might have a beer.Probably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
:tup: Doesn't mean you have to stop thinking about a solution.Good luck in your quest, and thanks for permission to hit the EZ-Chair and i just might have a beer.Probably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: bobcat on December 13, 2012, 09:13:21 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 09:23:34 PM
The solution is in olympia, I would be more than happy to meet you here where i live and show you the impact all this is having on the deer heard. I hunted hard for 8 days in a quality deer area dec 1-8th and didnt see a buck that would of scored over 150. I see the impact! im not giving up, just giving up on this state. I will take my money out of state now that my boy has turned 12. "And thats not complaining or crying" just reality.:tup: Doesn't mean you have to stop thinking about a solution.Good luck in your quest, and thanks for permission to hit the EZ-Chair and i just might have a beer.Probably not but at least I haven't given up, you can go ahead and go back to your beer and EZ-Chair.YOUR NOT GOING TO CHANGE A DAM THING!I'm all ears Dbldwn, rather than complaining lets hear what you came up with while spending hours looking into this. How about some letters or emails you sent or recieved. Go ahead............I can wait.(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/MGalleryItem.php?id=11848)Quote from: link=topic=112872.msg1479954#msg1479954 date=1355448020I have spent hours looking into this subject phool
Post by: wilsongideon on December 13, 2012, 09:32:59 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 13, 2012, 09:33:57 PM
I'm still not clear on why the gates couldn't just be open through November for all the hunting seasons, and then closed as of December 1st. That would stop the tribal overharvesting and the poaching that happens in the winter months. So tell me again why the entire area would need to be shut down prior to December 1st?Dec 1st would be perfect! The overharvest didnt get real bad untill 5 years ago, and typically alot of deer started hitting the ground through the month of december. And by saying "locking the gates dec 1 would eliminate some poaching and tribal over harvest" is basically saying we are locking you out, and now thats discriminating. Its a tough one man
Post by: huntnphool on December 13, 2012, 09:51:33 PM
I think the dec 1 idea would at least help....be a step in the right direction.Agreed, it would be better than nothing.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 13, 2012, 11:48:06 PM
What is the estimated deer population in the Entiat GMU?
I am assuming some of the experts on here can tell the forum what the percentage reductions of bucks are, over a period of the last 5 years.
I would hope so, or this is a useless topic. How can you make a claim without the data or facts to back it.
So far this is all assumptions and hearsay. I would agree that the population is LIKELY negatively impacted, but I would like to see the facts to justify the argument.
Locking gates may help, but ultimately the problem needs to be solved in Olympia. It will not happen, because the treaty is the XFactor in all this. Even if you lock the gates, the natives will cut the locks, kill what they want, and waive a treaty in eveyones face. The problem is we should have been able to revise the treaty to reflect the modern day. We have no power to do anything, because they are moreless exempt from many things. Olympia does not want to have natives on the front page of the Seattle Times complaining about our game department screwing them. They would rather let it happen and find other ways to save the deer populations across the state.
Post by: Jingles on December 13, 2012, 11:59:16 PM
What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.So you believe that everyone that has a disable placard is a lard a$$ and should just be put to sleep because they are what you said to lazy to do something about their health? WOW, to hear some of these statements makes me hope that for your sake you don't end up disabled and wanting my help when you cant get out of your chair or from off of the floor :bash: >:(
No if you review what I said is Here in WA the state gives out the handicap placards to those that are only handicapped because they are lard azzes. There are numerous folks that do deserve a handicap placard and the privelege of being able to park closer to the door of a store and the use of the handicapped scooters BUT there are one hell of a lot of handicap placards that are given to folks that are not handicapped except for being over weight by 200 to 300 pounds as far as me ever being handicapped I managed to over come polio as a kid and it irks the sh*t out of me to see those that get the placard that don't deserve them
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 14, 2012, 05:18:33 AM
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 14, 2012, 05:24:05 AM
I'm still not clear on why the gates couldn't just be open through November for all the hunting seasons, and then closed as of December 1st. That would stop the tribal overharvesting and the poaching that happens in the winter months. So tell me again why the entire area would need to be shut down prior to December 1st?
I guess if the gate are closed for everyone then no one can be accused of discrimination of any one user group!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 14, 2012, 06:53:21 AM
I supported and will continue to support gated roads, if you really want it then get off of you A#$ and out of your truck and go get it. That's hunting, not road killing. :tup:
What about those who are not hunting such as 4 wheelers, ATV'ers, Snowmobilers?? Although more of these folks hunt, than do "Lock em out!" greenies!
How about just better enforcement. We are not the only users of these roads and need to understand that . What % of the population hunts again?
Post by: danderson on December 14, 2012, 07:22:54 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 14, 2012, 07:26:08 AM
Lets take a poll, my vote is yes.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups and quit losing opportunity.
No doubt Bearpaw....we have 'em here
Post by: jackmaster on December 14, 2012, 07:27:57 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 14, 2012, 07:33:42 AM
Post by: hrd2fnd on December 14, 2012, 07:37:29 AM
Did you ever once consider the that maybe part of the reason they are over weight is due to the fact they are disabled?What makes you able bodied hunters so special ? I can't hike at all. They should give ALL disabled hunters access to YOUR locked gates and allow us NON able bodied hunters to ride our ATVs behind ALL locked gates. . We get the worst areas to hunt that are supposed to be an area where we will have a good chance to get that deer or elk, or whatever the WDFW allows us to hunt. Stop your whining, you guys aren't special in my book, just a bunch of cry babies.So you believe that everyone that has a disable placard is a lard a$$ and should just be put to sleep because they are what you said to lazy to do something about their health? WOW, to hear some of these statements makes me hope that for your sake you don't end up disabled and wanting my help when you cant get out of your chair or from off of the floor :bash: >:(
No if you review what I said is Here in WA the state gives out the handicap placards to those that are only handicapped because they are lard azzes. There are numerous folks that do deserve a handicap placard and the privelege of being able to park closer to the door of a store and the use of the handicapped scooters BUT there are one hell of a lot of handicap placards that are given to folks that are not handicapped except for being over weight by 200 to 300 pounds as far as me ever being handicapped I managed to over come polio as a kid and it irks the sh*t out of me to see those that get the placard that don't deserve them
Let's see, disabled people are fat due to the fact they are unable to get out and walk a mile due to the lack of oxygen that may be caused by some pulmonary disease. Your line of thinking doesn't make any sense, maybe you should put a straw up your nose and see what it is like to try and breath while walking any distance then come back and tell us how you feel.
Enough said, :sry: to jack the thread it is comments like this that unless you try and put yourself in the other persons situation you truly don't understand or have experienced what others have to deal with on a day to day bases. Where is my ignore button I'm done with this. :bash:
Post by: Elkrunner on December 14, 2012, 09:02:26 AM
Same song and dance every year, nothing is going to change! I see the same rig same individuals head up the valley past my house to the imediate winter range and kill a truck load of deer and drive out. I had a late archery chiwawa tag this year and watched the same rig shoot two bucks off the road with a rifle when we were hunting, same happens in the entiat unit time and time again. I guess my questions are: how many rutted out deer can a person eat? Whens enough enough? And do they honestly feel they are not abusing their rights? Locking gates isnt going to solve the problem, just compound it. In my opinionOkay so what is a viable plan? Closing these areas down to "no motorized vehicles" won't help......really?
if the tribes use ancestry rights to subsistance hunt, then they should hunt like their ancesters did with a long bow and a horse. The way the deer herd looks now, if it keeps going like its going the deer herd will be next to nothing in a year or two. Maybe thats the plan?
Bitching and complaining is useless unless you can come up with a solution. It kills me that some of you guys whine about this and that, yet when someone suggests something all you do is try to rationalize why it won't work, why it shouldn't be done. Why cant you, Bobcat and others look for reasons or ways that it would work or alternative solutions?
Few here would argue that there isn't a problem in a few of these areas, so why do most sit back and accept it, why not look for solution rather than sitting back and doing nothing except complaining. :bash:
Sounds very similar to our lovely government officials....
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 14, 2012, 09:08:18 AM
Post by: seansfire on December 14, 2012, 09:11:39 AM
Post by: S&W38spc on December 14, 2012, 09:13:35 AM
i honestly think that they should all be locked year around, if your disabled then apply for a key, otherwise walk in only, people who poach generally want to do it close to their rig for a fast get away, so make it where if they are gonna poach they are gonna be seen, i am a disabled hunter, but i still do my best to walk wherever i go, when i cant any longer then i am done hunting, and if i cant enjoy being in the woods then what exactly is the point of hunting....people can say for the meat all they want, its cheaper to go buy beef.....for about 90% of us i hope, its for the experience and the fun just being in the hills....poachers need to have alot stiffer penalties thrown at them, make it soooooo bad that no-one in their right mind would think about poaching :twocents:
Post by: S&W38spc on December 14, 2012, 09:14:49 AM
Post by: S&W38spc on December 14, 2012, 09:20:48 AM
Post by: jackmaster on December 14, 2012, 09:29:19 AM
But now after reading other comments, If we get way back deep in the woods, it is nice to be able to go grab the quad when we need it for dragging a deer or elk.i can see that, but how about this, all you need is to get on here and ask for help and you will get it, i would be happy to help and i know others that would to....i my be disabled but i aint so bad off to where i would give up, i would complete the task at hand and then go home where no-one can see me and whine like a baby :chuckle: or there could be a number where if someone whacked one and needed to get in there and get it, then they could call and someone could come and unlock the gate and escort them in, that would make a desent way to track the amount of kills to, hell i would volunteer for that job, it would be a great job for someone that is retired. :tup:
Post by: TD on December 14, 2012, 10:04:20 AM
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it."
I didn't read the whole post but I assume you're refering to our Native American poaching community here. If so, they'll just drive around any gate you put up. They have NO regard for our laws land or anything except poaching our wildlife....because they can. Trust me they're going to ruin that deer hunting just like they ruined the Elk hunting on the Colockum.
Thank you Judge Bolt!!!
:bdid:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 14, 2012, 10:20:53 AM
"With a couple more big bucks being killed in Entiat the last few days I think its about time they start locking the gates in all the winter ranges early, and posting no motorized vehicles, walking or biking in only.
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it."
I didn't read the whole post but I assume you're refering to our Native American poaching community here. If so, they'll just drive around any gate you put up. They have NO regard for our laws land or anything except poaching our wildlife....because they can. Trust me they're going to ruin that deer hunting just like they ruined the Elk hunting on the Colockum.
Thank you Judge Bolt!!! Some day, it would sink in that he didn't do anything but re-affirm what was already written and guaranteed, thank the US Govt. for agreeing to the terms.
:bdid:
Gates would do more then what's currently being done, nothing.
Post by: S&W38spc on December 14, 2012, 10:27:33 AM
This isthe sesitive female sideof me coming out, sometimes I get so appreciative and thankful that I start crying. So, thanks for making help available.
Post by: Practical Approach on December 14, 2012, 10:29:49 AM
"With a couple more big bucks being killed in Entiat the last few days I think its about time they start locking the gates in all the winter ranges early, and posting no motorized vehicles, walking or biking in only.FYI Judge Bolt had nothing to do with hunting, it was a fishing case.
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it."
I didn't read the whole post but I assume you're refering to our Native American poaching community here. If so, they'll just drive around any gate you put up. They have NO regard for our laws land or anything except poaching our wildlife....because they can. Trust me they're going to ruin that deer hunting just like they ruined the Elk hunting on the Colockum.
Thank you Judge Bolt!!!
:bdid:
Post by: jackmaster on December 14, 2012, 10:36:25 AM
Thanks jackmaster. That one section was pretty funny. But I have a hard time asking for help. I don't like doing it. And plus, I don't know anybody on here who lives close enough to me or better yet where we go hunting. And also, my dad won't like that I have some help with me when he is with me.But I do like the fact that some members on this forum are willing to help. I appreciate it.trust me i know how your dad feels, a few years ago probably 4 years actually i killed the biggest boddied blacktail i have evr killed, it was 200+ with the guts out, i always told myself that i would never cut a deer in half, well i made it 200yrds and had to cut him in half, well being disabled my ankles were swelled up like grapfruits and i was a hurtn unit, at the time i was 36, well i had to leave my buck in the woods and go get my dad to come help me get him out, it was the hardest thing i have evr had to ask my dad, so now i help people as much as i can without them asking for it, that way they dont have to feel bad, so if ya ever whack one that is gonna be a pain to get out, then drop me a line and i could just show up and help out, your dad cant get mad about that.....its what we do and there will be a time when you help someone else. it all comes full circle for the most part :tup: pm me if you want my number just incase
This isthe sesitive female sideof me coming out, sometimes I get so appreciative and thankful that I start crying. So, thanks for making help available.
Post by: S&W38spc on December 14, 2012, 10:45:05 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 11:02:24 AM
:yeah:"With a couple more big bucks being killed in Entiat the last few days I think its about time they start locking the gates in all the winter ranges early, and posting no motorized vehicles, walking or biking in only.
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it."
I didn't read the whole post but I assume you're refering to our Native American poaching community here. If so, they'll just drive around any gate you put up. They have NO regard for our laws land or anything except poaching our wildlife....because they can. Trust me they're going to ruin that deer hunting just like they ruined the Elk hunting on the Colockum.
Thank you Judge Bolt!!! Some day, it would sink in that he didn't do anything but re-affirm what was already written and guaranteed, thank the US Govt. for agreeing to the terms.
:bdid:
Gates would do more then what's currently being done, nothing.
Post by: TD on December 14, 2012, 11:05:18 AM
I find it hard to believe when it "WAS WRITTEN AND GUARANTEED" by our forfathers they were visuallizing 4 wheel drive pickups, high powered rifles and cheap beer. No!!!! walk or ride a horse and shoot with a bow you built. And don't Trophy hunt, just shoot for what meat you and your tribe think you need for winter.
I'm tired of paying the price today for BAD decisions made by people before I was even born.
Post by: coachcw on December 14, 2012, 11:07:49 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 14, 2012, 11:15:49 AM
Thank you Judge Bolt!!! Some day, it would sink in that he didn't do anything but re-affirm what was already written and guaranteed, thank the US Govt. for agreeing to the terms
I find it hard to believe when it "WAS WRITTEN AND GUARANTEED" by our forfathers they were visuallizing 4 wheel drive pickups, high powered rifles and cheap beer. No!!!! walk or ride a horse and shoot with a bow you built. And don't Trophy hunt, just shoot for what meat you and your tribe think you need for winter.
I'm tired of paying the price today for BAD decisions made by people before I was even born.
Whether they envisioned it either way is irrelevant. The US Govt. wrote the terms, we demanded terms and they agreed and signed on the line. Everybody is tired of paying for somebody elses bad decisions or mistakes, do you think you're the only one? I'm tired of the tax dollars I pay going towards illegal immigrants. Maybe everybody should go back to horse and bow and that should appease you? I don't have a problem with that, I walk-in to hunt anyways can't afford a horse, bow and arrow, sure I've been trying to put money aside to buy one anyways. I'm not picky when it comes to hunting, whichever animal presents me with a shot is the one I take home. A very small number care about the size of the racks but, not all. I prefer meat to nothing.
Horse and bow and arrow would really limit alot of the overharvesting so yes, maybe someday that happens and then those of us that do walk-in wouldn't be affected.
lock it all down nov 15th . im sure that people with tags won't mind hiking in to save the qaulity units .
that sounds reasonable.
Post by: bobcat on December 14, 2012, 11:25:22 AM
That's when the deer begin moving down.
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 12:14:12 PM
One even reminded me that there are gates all over in other areas and the tribes have not asked for keys or got upset about them.
Now I want to make it clear that locking the gates to motorized vehicles is not solely because of the tribes, there is a lot of poaching and general deer harassing (sleds chasing deer for their sheds) going on in Entiat, Swakane and Mission that has prompted this thread, it all needs to be adressed.
Will gates and motorized vehicle restrictions keep it from happening, no, but it will help a great deal more than what's going on right now, which is nothing.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 14, 2012, 12:23:44 PM
Some of you guys may not believe it but I have been discussing this with a few Indians in PM and via text and they agree and have no problem locking the gates, in fact they think it's a good idea. :tup:
One even reminded me that there are gates all over in other areas and the tribes have not asked for keys or got upset about them.
Now I want to make it clear that locking the gates to motorized vehicles is not solely because of the tribes, there is a lot of poaching and general deer harassing (sleds chasing deer for their sheds) going on in Entiat, Swakane and Mission that has prompted this thread, it all needs to be adressed.
Will gates and motorized vehicle restrictions keep it from happening, no, but it will help a great deal more than what's going on right now, which is nothing.
Doing something is better then sitting around doing nothing. :tup:
Post by: Chesapeake on December 14, 2012, 02:00:35 PM
I would be on board with Sept. 1 gates till April/May (some time after the winter is over to reduce shed hunters pushing animals).
You could set up designated roads and gates for disabled hunters like the program we used to have a few years ago.
I do most all my hunting for elk and deer behind locked gates. Extraction isnt ever a big issue. Game carts, pack boards, toboggans, and Mt Bike trailers make it pretty easy. Hunters adapt and learn how to get it done pretty quickly when its the only option. Many of us industrial timber lands hunters dont even flinch at the idea of dropping an elk 5 miles behind a locked gate. Mule deer would be easy.
And its not just young hunters either. I see plenty of grey haired old timers back 4 and 5 miles behind locked gates chasing elk. And I help them haul them when they get one. The stories them guys tell are worth every minute.
I say lock all the gates, just so long as you let us walk or ride in. :tup:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 02:39:55 PM
Why not create a tier'd draw system based on cost.
Quality hunts require a larger fee to apply for versus an Anterless hunt, etc.
Cost is based off the type of hunt (Example- Quality Deer) and the Hunt Choice (Example- Entiat 1234). The better the Hunt Choice, the more expensive it is.
Close the GMU during the general season and make it a draw only.
Create 1-3 hunts per GMU and charge accordingly. Late season Entiat hunt would require a bigger application fee versus the general season etc. My fee's and number of permits given per season are only for example purposes. Both the "A season" and "B" season are at the EXACT same time.
1) Early Season A $40.00
10 permits
2) General Season A $20.00
5 permits
3) Late Season A $60.00
20 permits
1) Early Season B $4.00
2 permits
2) General Season B $2.00
5 permits
3) Late Season B $6.00
2 permits
For those who cannot afford to pay the increased fee's; reserve the EXACT SAME PERMITS but at a smaller fee (Example- The "B" hunts I have listed.) They would also have a lesser chance of getting drawn, because they would give out say 20 permits at a high rate versus 5 permits at the cheaper rate. This gives EVERYONE a choice and does not EXCLUDE anyone from an opprotunity. Those who contribute more revenue to the program, have a higher percentage of getting drawn, based on the number of issued permits.
Use the money generated across the state to invest in the proper management measures (lock gates, fund gates, etc.) to protect our resource and provide QUALITY hunting for everyone, who wants to take advantage of the PRIVLEDGE.
Personally...I would pay $200 per year to apply in the Entiat with no definate that I was going to get drawn. As long as the department was making positive strides toward producing QUALITY hunting in the areas I am applying for and protecting the resource.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 03:04:12 PM
4420 @ $60.00 per permit =$265,200
4420 @ $40.00 per permit =$176,800
4420 @ $20.00 per permit =$88,400
4420 @ $13.70 per quality special permit is the current rate in the 2012 Regulations. The total revenue generated for 2011 = $60,554 for Modern Firearm Quality Deer Entiat Hunt Choice.
If you add the 3 totals up to get an average = $530,400 divided by 3 = $176,800 average per year special permit generated revenue. The actual number would likely be MUCH higher, because most are going to apply for more than 1 hunt choice for the GMU (Example- Apply for the Early Season and Late Season). These numbers are based off the "A" hunts. Additional revenue would also be generated from the "B" hunts. Keep in mind these numbers are for example purposes. As you can see; with a little creativity, you can generate a ton of cash to help fund the ideas everyone has talked about within the forum.
My perspective- I would rather spend $60.00 for an opprotunity at a late deer permit in the Entiat, which is a secure gated area; known to produce a QUALITY hunting experience and a QUALITY DEER versus $5000 for a guided hunt in Idaho to shoot the same thing,
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 03:49:09 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 14, 2012, 03:50:33 PM
Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
:yeah: I think Colockumelk has some competition in the arena of stats and studies. :chuckle:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 04:11:03 PM
Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
I know what your original post said, but you have to generate revenue some how to pay for it. I have gone to the annual meetings in Olympia. Whenever an idea is presented, the department always goes back to ROI plan (return on investment). They want to see a cause and effect plan for everything. Your suggestion is to lock the gates or open the main line and barricade the non-main roads.
How are they going to pay for the baricades?
The labor to open and close the gates everytime somebody needs in?
Repair costs when some jerk damages a gate?
Signs on the roadway?
All these cost add up and have to be accounted for. So I am suggesting a way to pay for it.
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 04:20:17 PM
Most of the gates are already in place, they just need to be swung shut and locked. Signs at the gates prohibiting motorized vehicles when gates are locked could be paid for with the same money that pays for our WDFW officers to go up in there all the time responding to phone calls. I would imagine a minimal one time cost. How many gates are damaged each year statewide, I'm thinking this is a non factor as well.Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
I know what your original post said, but you have to generate revenue some how to pay for it. I have gone to the annual meetings in Olympia. Whenever an idea is presented, the department always goes back to ROI plan (return on investment). They want to see a cause and effect plan for everything. Your suggestion is to lock the gates or open the main line and barricade the non-main roads.
How are they going to pay for the baricades?
The labor to open and close the gates everytime somebody needs in?
Repair costs when some jerk damages a gate?
Signs on the roadway?
All these cost add up and have to be accounted for. So I am suggesting a way to pay for it.
Return on investment? How about the continued revenue generated by the permits people purchase to hunt these areas, which will dry up if this BS is allowed to continue and people stop wanting to waste money applying. :twocents:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 04:31:10 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 04:33:54 PM
Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
:yeah: I think Colockumelk has some competition in the arena of stats and studies. :chuckle:
LOL
I am a very detailed individual. You should see my show car/street rod!
For all I know; my suggestion may cost more to implement than what it is worth. Only an idea...
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 04:39:55 PM
And thats what we need, ideas. :tup: Post a thread on your car, lets see it.Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
:yeah: I think Colockumelk has some competition in the arena of stats and studies. :chuckle:
Only an idea...
Post by: DBLDWN on December 14, 2012, 04:47:03 PM
So you think WDFW wont lose revenue by locking the mountains up? Just a question. Your slander on sleds in the entiat is a bunch of BS also! I would like to see your evidence on that comment. Your starting to sound like a liberal olympian. :twocents:.Most of the gates are already in place, they just need to be swung shut and locked. Signs at the gates prohibiting motorized vehicles when gates are locked could be paid for with the same money that pays for our WDFW officers to go up in there all the time responding to phone calls. I would imagine a minimal one time cost. How many gates are damaged each year statewide, I'm thinking this is a non factor as well.Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
I know what your original post said, but you have to generate revenue some how to pay for it. I have gone to the annual meetings in Olympia. Whenever an idea is presented, the department always goes back to ROI plan (return on investment). They want to see a cause and effect plan for everything. Your suggestion is to lock the gates or open the main line and barricade the non-main roads.
How are they going to pay for the baricades?
The labor to open and close the gates everytime somebody needs in?
Repair costs when some jerk damages a gate?
Signs on the roadway?
All these cost add up and have to be accounted for. So I am suggesting a way to pay for it.
Return on investment? How about the continued revenue generated by the permits people purchase to hunt these areas, which will dry up if this BS is allowed to continue and people stop wanting to waste money applying. :twocents:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 04:51:56 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 04:52:07 PM
If they locked the gates from Dec. 1 to April 1 they are not going to lose revenue, no. As far as the sleds go, I have seen it myself while up taking pictures, thats all the evidence I need.So you think WDFW wont lose revenue by locking the mountains up? Just a question. Your slander on sleds in the entiat is a bunch of BS also! I would like to see your evidence on that comment. Your starting to sound like a liberal olympian. :twocents:.Most of the gates are already in place, they just need to be swung shut and locked. Signs at the gates prohibiting motorized vehicles when gates are locked could be paid for with the same money that pays for our WDFW officers to go up in there all the time responding to phone calls. I would imagine a minimal one time cost. How many gates are damaged each year statewide, I'm thinking this is a non factor as well.Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
I know what your original post said, but you have to generate revenue some how to pay for it. I have gone to the annual meetings in Olympia. Whenever an idea is presented, the department always goes back to ROI plan (return on investment). They want to see a cause and effect plan for everything. Your suggestion is to lock the gates or open the main line and barricade the non-main roads.
How are they going to pay for the baricades?
The labor to open and close the gates everytime somebody needs in?
Repair costs when some jerk damages a gate?
Signs on the roadway?
All these cost add up and have to be accounted for. So I am suggesting a way to pay for it.
Return on investment? How about the continued revenue generated by the permits people purchase to hunt these areas, which will dry up if this BS is allowed to continue and people stop wanting to waste money applying. :twocents:
Post by: DBLDWN on December 14, 2012, 04:58:51 PM
So you had a camera, Did you take a picture of this happening? I would really like to see one.If they locked the gates from Dec. 1 to April 1 they are not going to lose revenue, no. As far as the sleds go, I have seen it myself while up taking pictures, thats all the evidence I need.So you think WDFW wont lose revenue by locking the mountains up? Just a question. Your slander on sleds in the entiat is a bunch of BS also! I would like to see your evidence on that comment. Your starting to sound like a liberal olympian. :twocents:.Most of the gates are already in place, they just need to be swung shut and locked. Signs at the gates prohibiting motorized vehicles when gates are locked could be paid for with the same money that pays for our WDFW officers to go up in there all the time responding to phone calls. I would imagine a minimal one time cost. How many gates are damaged each year statewide, I'm thinking this is a non factor as well.Thanks for the in depth thought sky but I don't believe this would have any impact on the issue at hand. Please read the original post again and I think you will understand the issue. ;)
I know what your original post said, but you have to generate revenue some how to pay for it. I have gone to the annual meetings in Olympia. Whenever an idea is presented, the department always goes back to ROI plan (return on investment). They want to see a cause and effect plan for everything. Your suggestion is to lock the gates or open the main line and barricade the non-main roads.
How are they going to pay for the baricades?
The labor to open and close the gates everytime somebody needs in?
Repair costs when some jerk damages a gate?
Signs on the roadway?
All these cost add up and have to be accounted for. So I am suggesting a way to pay for it.
Return on investment? How about the continued revenue generated by the permits people purchase to hunt these areas, which will dry up if this BS is allowed to continue and people stop wanting to waste money applying. :twocents:
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 05:05:29 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 14, 2012, 05:14:40 PM
DB-Who is your post directed to? I'm assuming not me, as I said nothing about locking up mtns or sleding. I think your in left field on this one...Not directed towards you.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 06:29:29 PM
It happens all over up in there, and when there isn't enough snow its birt bikes, mostly guys looking for sheds that time of year. I see it every year, guys on sleds or dirt bikes tearing up Mud, Crum and Steliko not caring about running the deer in every direction, all in the name of shed hunting.
They should ban shed hunting. I was told it is illegal to shed hunt in Montana. Forget shed hunting, just go shoot one during the season and keep that as your shed. Leave the animal be except during the season.
Post by: actionshooter on December 14, 2012, 06:31:08 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 14, 2012, 06:33:13 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 14, 2012, 06:41:05 PM
WOW.. I just hate hearing things that are in favor of taking way our rights to do things :bash: :bash: :bash: :yeah: :dunno:
OK I will change it to...don't take away shed hunting, but take it away in specific areas to give the animals some space to be animals without guys running up and down the roads on ATVs etc. to find a set of antlers.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 14, 2012, 06:46:39 PM
Post by: Buckhunter24 on December 14, 2012, 06:47:34 PM
They should ban shed hunting. I was told it is illegal to shed hunt in Montana. Forget shed hunting, just go shoot one during the season and keep that as your shed. Leave the animal be except during the season.
I'm sure it was a credible source.
Post by: fair-chase on December 14, 2012, 07:02:01 PM
One thing that I would really like to see is some sort of controll over these "shed dogs". I used think it would be great to own a shed dog, and given the right training it might be. The problem is the massive amount of people taking untrained dogs shed hunting. I was up in the Wooten Wildlife Area opening day of shedding last year and saw many, many dogs litterally running down the herds. Snow was a little late coming off so this was pre green up, and the herd hadn't quite fully recovered from winter. They were chased around till they were passed the point of exhaustion by these "shed dogs". You could litterally walk up to the cows and calves because they had been run so hard they just gave up hope. It was sickening.
Post by: Buckhunter24 on December 14, 2012, 07:06:45 PM
WOW.. I just hate hearing things that are in favor of taking way our rights to do things :bash: :bash: :bash: :yeah: :dunno:
OK I will change it to...don't take away shed hunting, but take it away in specific areas to give the animals some space to be animals without guys running up and down the roads on ATVs etc. to find a set of antlers.
I fully agree with banning any sort of shed hunting from a sled/4wheeler. What I don't ever want is my shed hunting rights taken away when I wait and find them on the ground without pressuring them.
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 14, 2012, 07:08:12 PM
I'm just stunned how a few on here can turn any thread into Christian bashing. During hunting season my church is in the mountains on Sundays. It would not make me happy (being "religeous") to have that day closed to hunting, thank you.
I think it's Religious
I make this same proposal every year about no Sunday hunting. I'm sure Bobcat can confirm this since he has made the same response every time.
If you can twist the statement of our Christian friends giving them the choice of spending time with family and friends in the house of worship of their choice is considered bashing. Good on ya.
I guess it's your story Paint it as Big as ya want!
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 14, 2012, 07:14:47 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 14, 2012, 07:17:24 PM
alternate option: make the whole season permit only.. limit the # of hunters overall... No gates, but control the # of hunters.
Well this was the original idea from another member I just gave another choice.
This one may let you hunt every other year or 3rd year
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 14, 2012, 07:53:45 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 14, 2012, 08:02:22 PM
It happens all over up in there, and when there isn't enough snow its birt bikes, mostly guys looking for sheds that time of year. I see it every year, guys on sleds or dirt bikes tearing up Mud, Crum and Steliko not caring about running the deer in every direction, all in the name of shed hunting.You say you see this and are up here every year with your camera, wheres the pictures? I garuntee you i spend more time in these mountains then most and its kind of funny we have never crossed paths. Maybe 2013? And to be honest have never seen a single person chase a deer on a sled or motorbike. Sure think i would have seen it in the 20 years ive lived here if it was happening. :dunno:
Post by: Seabass on December 14, 2012, 08:51:34 PM
The guy who thinks people on sleds don't chase deer is BLIND! It happens a lot. I don't need to see a picture (laughable to think you could even capture that) to know it happens. I have seen it and know of others that have seen it as well.
I have never seen a poacher nor captured a picture of one. Does that mean poaching doesn't happen? Silly argument.
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 14, 2012, 09:04:15 PM
The responses to this thread read like a 10 year old with ADHD. It started out with a talk about protecting wintering animals. How did we end up discussing religion and closing the season on Sundays? Ban shed hunting? I say we disallow left handed hunters and those with brown hair.
The guy who thinks people on sleds don't chase deer is BLIND! It happens a lot. I don't need to see a picture (laughable to think you could even capture that) to know it happens. I have seen it and know of others that have seen it as well.
I have never seen a poacher nor captured a picture of one. Does that mean poaching doesn't happen? Silly argument.
My original post was to relieve the pressure on the deer herds in this state which included a 3 point restriction State wide on all deer and then the implementing of no sunday hunting which would also reduce the pressure on the herds.
If we as hunters don't start coming up with something that may not be what we like soon it maybe a draw so that you may only hunt every 2nd or 3rd year and that will cause a poo storm.
Post by: Seabass on December 14, 2012, 09:31:36 PM
I didn't know we had an epidemic that wiped out the deer in Washington. Lets not get crazy. This state has a turd load of deer in it!
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 14, 2012, 09:56:55 PM
Are you serious? How did this topic end up at a place where we might have our hunting limited? You are nuts! There are ares where deer herds are lacking, agreed but how do you get from an over pressured specific area to a statewide draw system.
I didn't know we had an epidemic that wiped out the deer in Washington. Lets not get crazy. This state has a turd load of deer in it!
Serious : Yes to a point.
Having your hunting limited:
Back in the mid 70's I was elk hunting in the Blues with my Dad and had a person tell me we were Dinosaurs and we needed to think about our season's. I had some of the same response you just gave me. back then it was any Bull along with an open cow season. Since then the seasons have changed a shade.
Deer wiped out in the state:
Even the site owner has made reference to the lack of deer in some of the areas. part of this can be attributed to the winters of 2008 and 2009 with the heavy snows. Then there is the new topic we have that is decimating the herds as well.
As to the Turd load of deer in this state:
Balderdash, The deer numbers are now where what they were in the 60's and 70's But then again they will rise and fall depending on the winters but now we have wolves that will not play into the mix. But never to the numbers I have seen.
So I can tell you what the person told me back then!
Enjoy the Good Old Days. Your hunting them now!
I have stayed away from addressing the Nations hunting, But what they need to realize is they are effecting what will be there for the children and grandchildren as well.
Post by: wilsongideon on December 14, 2012, 11:09:50 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 14, 2012, 11:31:25 PM
I find it hard to believe that anyone concerned with the heard would appose locking the gates and banning motorized vehicles from Dec. 1st through the end of March. :dunno:
Post by: winshooter88 on December 14, 2012, 11:58:34 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 15, 2012, 12:31:43 AM
If this was a vote I would say..phooey on the draw only or closing the season on sunday or even closing any areas before november first or on the raising the permit cost to make it a rich mans sport, its already expensive enough. making the regular season draw only isnt really going to help to take pressure off the deer in question, sure any draw only area is going to have better hunting as less hunters equals better hunting no brainer. but the deer that I think phool is concerned with and the original idea was to protect wally the wall hanger from road hunting/poaching some which is legal poaching but is poaching to me.abuse of rights whatever. the deer that need protection is the Wilderness herd that has nowhere else to go to survive winter. these deer do not need to spend their winter/spring being chased around by trucks, sleds, dogs and dirtbikes. If anyone wants to ever see washington mule deer mature into their potential then helping them get through the winter should be tops on the list. I say close the unit to vehicles after the rifle permit hunt. say november 20th - through may 1. shed hunters can still walk in and that wont hurt the deer much but keep the dogs out. sleds can go play somewhere else, plenty of snow in washington where deer dont winter. open all the roads back up and everyone can drive though and look take their kids up to hunt the local deer. I think this kind of protection should be put in place on all the deer winter ranges where this type of harrasement goes on. Dont take away rights of the normal hunter. just protect the deer from the knuckleheads in our society
This is a really good post right here. I agree wtih everything you said, except one thing. When I suggested raising the special permit costs and closing the area during the general season; I was not trying to turn it into a rich mans hunt. That was why I suggested a "B" permit at a lesser cost to the hunter, which would still be the exact same hunt. My suggestions were off topic, considering Huntnphool is talking about a very specific group of deer. I still would like to see my suggestion or a variation of it, implemented in certain areas. My main reason, is due to the lack of funding the game department recieves. Currently they create special permit hunts in areas for the sake of selling permits. IMO- they are damaging the resource in specific GMUs. Example 163 Marengo. Use to be the #1 area in the state. Now it is one of the worst areas in WA and has been destroyed. 2 hour hunt on opening day. Get a deer or go elsewhere...
Why not take protect the deer in Entiat by making the unit a draw only and lock the gates. That should at least cut down the road traffic and keep alot of people out. People are not going to walk behind a gate unless they have a good reason too. Limit the good reasons, and less pressure on the herds.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 15, 2012, 05:46:29 AM
The pieces are laying on the ground right next to the posts. People still go up there anyhow because they don't care about the deer. Not everyone is a hunter in this state and could care less about it. The population out weighs the hunters by far.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 15, 2012, 05:47:21 AM
All this no hunting on Sunday talk I have to ask one question ...Do you hunt on Sundays now ? or you would gladly not hunt on Sunday if it became law ...I grew up in Pa and as a kid I hated it ...had to go to school all week and only have one day to hunt on the weekend ...No thank you ...Actually I think they have changed that law in Pa or are in the process of doing so ..I also do not believe god cares if I hunt on Sunday either :twocents:The responses to this thread read like a 10 year old with ADHD. It started out with a talk about protecting wintering animals. How did we end up discussing religion and closing the season on Sundays? Ban shed hunting? I say we disallow left handed hunters and those with brown hair.
The guy who thinks people on sleds don't chase deer is BLIND! It happens a lot. I don't need to see a picture (laughable to think you could even capture that) to know it happens. I have seen it and know of others that have seen it as well.
I have never seen a poacher nor captured a picture of one. Does that mean poaching doesn't happen? Silly argument.
My original post was to relieve the pressure on the deer herds in this state which included a 3 point restriction State wide on all deer and then the implementing of no sunday hunting which would also reduce the pressure on the herds.
If we as hunters don't start coming up with something that may not be what we like soon it maybe a draw so that you may only hunt every 2nd or 3rd year and that will cause a poo storm.
Post by: Seabass on December 15, 2012, 10:07:20 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 15, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
That is one of the things I hate about fishing Westport. It closes on Saturday. Double Stupid!
Hunting and fishing should not be as complex as it is now. 20 years ago I could walk here or there with no issue. Now I have to have permission from several lands owners, watch a safety video, sign my life away, and carry a breifcase in one hand a cell phone with my lawyer on speed dial in the other. Triple Stupid!
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 12:07:24 PM
People forget, this is public land and is open to all. Some of our roads say closed from Dec 1st- March 1st or 31st. The gates are there but, are NEVER put up to keep people out. The USFS is too lazy to put existing gates back up.I'm betting the bleeding hearts of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties would vote for it if they knew what was happening. ;)
The pieces are laying on the ground right next to the posts. People still go up there anyhow because they don't care about the deer. Not everyone is a hunter in this state and could care less about it. The population out weighs the hunters by far.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 15, 2012, 12:09:12 PM
People forget, this is public land and is open to all. Some of our roads say closed from Dec 1st- March 1st or 31st. The gates are there but, are NEVER put up to keep people out. The USFS is too lazy to put existing gates back up.I'm betting the bleeding hearts of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties would vote for it if they knew what was happening. ;)
The pieces are laying on the ground right next to the posts. People still go up there anyhow because they don't care about the deer. Not everyone is a hunter in this state and could care less about it. The population out weighs the hunters by far.
Those are the ones who mainly ruin the entire state anyhow. :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 12:13:36 PM
LOL, when was the last time you were even in one of these areas during that time of year campmeat, and why are you so adamant at status quo? Are you seriously okay with what goes on with the deer during these few months?People forget, this is public land and is open to all. Some of our roads say closed from Dec 1st- March 1st or 31st. The gates are there but, are NEVER put up to keep people out. The USFS is too lazy to put existing gates back up.I'm betting the bleeding hearts of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties would vote for it if they knew what was happening. ;)
The pieces are laying on the ground right next to the posts. People still go up there anyhow because they don't care about the deer. Not everyone is a hunter in this state and could care less about it. The population out weighs the hunters by far.
Those are the ones who mainly ruin the entire state anyhow. :tup:
Post by: antlerking on December 15, 2012, 12:15:48 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 02:24:48 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 02:40:33 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 15, 2012, 03:04:48 PM
Apparently 3 trucks with 15 bucks. :yike:
I hope and pray that someone will photo document these incidents.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 15, 2012, 03:15:31 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 03:17:12 PM
The witness is credible ;)Apparently 3 trucks with 15 bucks. :yike:
I hope and pray that someone will photo document these incidents.
Post by: jackelope on December 15, 2012, 03:35:21 PM
This is the buck the guy was watching when it was shot. There was 3 trucks full of deer. This was large buck #15. Pretty sure there's more pics. The witness is absolutely credible. It's not me, don't ask who it is and I won't post any more pics unless I get the green light from him.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 15, 2012, 03:36:55 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 15, 2012, 03:48:36 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 04:00:19 PM
Post by: shedcrazy on December 15, 2012, 04:02:55 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 04:04:14 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 15, 2012, 04:06:29 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 04:08:25 PM
Also a good time for folks to do some target shooting! the problem with Locking the gates is that the state would most likely give them keys, and only us would be locked out.Not true, there are gates all over the place nd they don't have keys.
Post by: antlerking on December 15, 2012, 04:10:07 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 04:11:22 PM
There must b some serous weight in the back of that 4 runner16 bucks that I know of in the last couple days out of there, thats 32 less sheds for you to look for antlerking.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 15, 2012, 04:12:36 PM
Post by: gasman on December 15, 2012, 04:15:45 PM
Bring a portable gen and weld the dam thing shut :devil:
I would if I lived in the area, thats BS :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 04:17:10 PM
Ok, why not the locals take it in there own hands and lock the gates them self :dunno:Forest service and emergency services need to be able to get in there.
Bring a portable gen and weld the dam thing shut :devil:
I would if I lived in the area, thats BS :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 15, 2012, 04:18:36 PM
Also, there is a red Toyota PU owned by a Yakima Tribe cop and a Blue 4 door Tacoma that have been seen up in there.
Good to see that a person in a position of authority is setting such a good example :bash: :mor:
Post by: gasman on December 15, 2012, 04:19:07 PM
Ok, why not the locals take it in there own hands and lock the gates them self :dunno:Forest service and emergency services need to be able to get in there.
Bring a portable gen and weld the dam thing shut :devil:
I would if I lived in the area, thats BS :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
For what, Fires durring the winter :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: DBLDWN on December 15, 2012, 04:36:42 PM
Also, there is a red Toyota PU owned by a Yakima Tribe cop and a Blue 4 door Tacoma that have been seen up in there.Red and white ford f-150 and a maroon toyota land cruiser. shot 4 more today!
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 15, 2012, 04:39:24 PM
Post by: Elkbow33 on December 15, 2012, 04:49:45 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 15, 2012, 04:50:48 PM
Post by: Harborhunter on December 15, 2012, 05:01:09 PM
Yea it's amazing how well those horns taste.
Yep they are really meat hunting!!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 15, 2012, 05:05:03 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 15, 2012, 05:06:40 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 15, 2012, 05:24:53 PM
When I have more time I will look at the Yakama reg's and see what I can find.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 15, 2012, 07:17:04 PM
No Yakima ever hunted this far from home for meat for his family.
Post by: jrebel on December 15, 2012, 07:33:20 PM
The roads are not the problem people. The natives, poachers, cougars and wolves are. Gateing the roads is not the answer. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: shedcrazy on December 15, 2012, 07:37:17 PM
Post by: huntergreg on December 15, 2012, 07:37:56 PM
Local game warden says 100 bucks in the Entiat and swakane this year.
:bash: :bash:
Post by: JoeE on December 15, 2012, 07:40:06 PM
Ceded land? How about ceded land accessible by the same form of transportation of the day the treaty was signed, IE: ceded land you can walk to.
No Yakima ever hunted this far from home for meat for his family.
They (the Yakamas) actually went all the way to Montana to hunt buffalo. So did some of tribes of the Colville Confederated Tribes...
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 15, 2012, 07:41:37 PM
Ceded land? How about ceded land accessible by the same form of transportation of the day the treaty was signed, IE: ceded land you can walk to.
No Yakima ever hunted this far from home for meat for his family.
They (the Yakamas) actually went all the way to Montana to hunt buffalo. So did some of tribes of the Colville Confederated Tribes...
In Toyota's?
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 15, 2012, 07:58:02 PM
If nothing else, the tribal members could apply for and be granted does tags for meat harvest, say one per family per month. If the tag is not reported as filled then it will rollover to the next month and an additional tag will not be issued. They would still be allowed the regular hunting seasons as the rest of the state with the same tag as the rest of the state. This gives the state the ability to regulate and enforce their cooperation with treaty rights rather than the freedom to decimate wildlife populations.
Post by: coachcw on December 15, 2012, 08:01:03 PM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on December 15, 2012, 08:08:08 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on December 15, 2012, 08:10:15 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 09:29:55 PM
Post by: JoeE on December 15, 2012, 09:35:37 PM
Post by: JoeE on December 15, 2012, 09:37:06 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 09:38:50 PM
1855 was the big one huntphool.are you sure?
Post by: Craig on December 15, 2012, 10:43:48 PM
Post by: JoeE on December 15, 2012, 10:46:10 PM
1855 was the big one huntphool.are you sure?
Yes
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=8128 (http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=8128)
Post by: huntnphool on December 15, 2012, 10:47:30 PM
Thanks1855 was the big one huntphool.are you sure?
Yes
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=8128 (http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&File_Id=8128)
Post by: JoeE on December 15, 2012, 10:53:29 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 16, 2012, 02:28:27 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 16, 2012, 05:10:50 AM
Somebody needs to contact all the environmentalist groups and send them up there. I am not a big fan of environmentalists, but one thing I do know; when they ban together over a cause they beleive in, they usually succeed. They recently stopped the Japanese from whale hunting off the coast of Antartica in international waters, which have no laws aganist killing whales (until now). Send all the major new stations up there out of Seattle, Spokane, and Wenatchee. The Yakamas are more than aware this type of abuse is going on. We need to get this put on somebody's radar in Olympia, who cares and is willing to take it across the country. This type of thing happens all over the US. The US Supreme Court needs to step in and work with tribal leaders to stop this. They need to be held accountable is OUR courts...not the tribal courts, who don't give a *censored*!
The democrats are well supported by tribes, and be careful what you suggest. You could end up with an initiative to ban deer hunting if the wrong folks get the ball rolling. And Members of the environmental religion have and continue to use us to further their agendas, until their crosshairs turn to our hobbies and passions and how they can stop them. Mob (democracy) rule is how they think, and there is a BIG mob in Pugetropolis!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 16, 2012, 05:14:57 AM
We are going to have to band together like vigilantes and have shifts to spook the dam bucks away from the roads, air horns, coyote howls, firecrackers. SOMETHING!! This is just sickening to hear!! :bash: :bash: :bash:
If I lived near I'd be all for THIS! take your kids dirt biking, quadding, shooting whatever you can
Post by: mwhunter on December 16, 2012, 11:05:38 AM
Post by: cougarbart on December 16, 2012, 11:39:08 AM
Post by: spin05 on December 16, 2012, 01:33:56 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
probly selling the meat if some of those guys are killing that many animals.....They cant sell doe meat?
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2012, 01:55:28 PM
probly selling the meat if some of those guys are killing that many animals.....They cant sell doe meat?
It's illegal for them to sell the meat anyway, by their own laws.
I don't want them killing does either.
Post by: nwhunter on December 16, 2012, 01:56:46 PM
Bottom line is whether its natives or poachers causing the problem we need to protect our game animals on the winter range when they are most succeptible. In September and October they dont need this protection because they are mostly in areas where they can fend for themselves in less accessible areas. I have hunted the entiat off and on since I was a kid so I know a little about that country and how cut up with roads it is. I hunted above Twisp 15 years ago on a deer rut tag and there was a road system that had a sign on it that stated the road would be gated shut on a certain date for winter migration protection. This is what the Entiat needs without a doubt. Whether it be on Nov 1st every year or when it snows a foot ,close access to all those canyon roads like Crum, Potato, Mud etc. and leave it shut until May1. No quads no snowmobiles. Walkin or ride a horse. That will protect the game during the winter and keep out the shed hunters from harrassing them in the spring and allow people to still enjoy that country during the rest of the year as they have for the last century.
I own a fencing company with my brother and we would happily sponsor a gate and arrange for it to be put in! nwhunter
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2012, 02:04:33 PM
had those signs my whole life up in Twisp.
Post by: jstone on December 16, 2012, 02:16:29 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 16, 2012, 03:01:55 PM
I would be all over that. I would donate my time as labor to help put up gates. That means they don't get keys either great idea
I would too if there was a way to get it done.
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 03:31:48 PM
If they won't do anything about this then its time to take a look at other avenues, there are a few things that would make them open their eyes.
Post by: trophyhunt on December 16, 2012, 03:51:10 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 03:57:30 PM
I hunted above Twisp 15 years ago on a deer rut tag and there was a road system that had a sign on it that stated the road would be gated shut on a certain date for winter migration protection. This is what the Entiat needs without a doubt. Whether it be on Nov 1st every year or when it snows a foot ,close access to all those canyon roads like Crum, Potato, Mud etc. and leave it shut until May1. No quads no snowmobiles. Walkin or ride a horse.Actually there are a few gates like that and the indians don't get keys to them either, like some have said.
Dec. 1st would work, everyone will be done hunting in there by then except for the Incentive, Raffle and Auction tag holders, but if you have a tag like that I'm sure you would not have a issue walking in knowing the heard has not been slaughtered because of it.
Post by: jstone on December 16, 2012, 04:43:30 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 09:21:48 PM
Post by: mkcj on December 16, 2012, 09:27:26 PM
Post by: buck man on December 16, 2012, 09:44:47 PM
I have a master key to all the gates :chuckle: :tup::bdid:
Your master key will get you in nothing but trouble. Especially if its made in china and 30" long. :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 09:47:37 PM
I have a master key to all the gates :chuckle: :tup:Well arent you the cool guy, what is your point?
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 09:48:14 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 09:51:48 PM
Its a key :chuckle:Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion or are you just here to stir the pot? :dunno:
Post by: nwhunter on December 16, 2012, 09:53:19 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 09:54:50 PM
Just here to laugh at the hate you all haveIts a key :chuckle:Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion or are you just here to stir the pot? :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 10:00:01 PM
Laugh all you want, there are a couple things that could bring the tribes to their knees if the federal gov. really wanted to stick it to the indians, so I wouldn't get too cocky. ;)Just here to laugh at the hate you all haveIts a key :chuckle:Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion or are you just here to stir the pot? :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on December 16, 2012, 10:02:58 PM
I hunted above Twisp 15 years ago on a deer rut tag and there was a road system that had a sign on it that stated the road would be gated shut on a certain date for winter migration protection. This is what the Entiat needs without a doubt. Whether it be on Nov 1st every year or when it snows a foot ,close access to all those canyon roads like Crum, Potato, Mud etc. and leave it shut until May1. No quads no snowmobiles. Walkin or ride a horse.Actually there are a few gates like that and the indians don't get keys to them either, like some have said.
Dec. 1st would work, everyone will be done hunting in there by then except for the Incentive, Raffle and Auction tag holders, but if you have a tag like that I'm sure you would not have a issue walking in knowing the heard has not been slaughtered because of it.
Couple areas like that in the Blues too. No human entry to protect wintering animals. You cant even walk in.
Post by: jackelope on December 16, 2012, 10:05:16 PM
Maybe you can convert the hatred by explaining why your people need to shoot 15 large bucks in one day and how you justify that to yourselves.Just here to laugh at the hate you all haveIts a key :chuckle:Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion or are you just here to stir the pot? :dunno:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:10:15 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:10:52 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:14:38 PM
Your profile picture looks like a buck that was killed in its wintering grounds jackMaybe you can convert the hatred by explaining why your people need to shoot 15 large bucks in one day and how you justify that to yourselves.Just here to laugh at the hate you all haveIts a key :chuckle:Do you have anything positive to add to the discussion or are you just here to stir the pot? :dunno:
By tha way thats a nice buck
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:17:01 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:19:42 PM
Do the tribes get territorial with each other over lands hunted?They are now
Post by: huntnnw on December 16, 2012, 10:20:04 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:20:46 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:24:00 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:24:54 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:29:41 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:31:32 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:33:20 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 10:40:22 PM
Its not their ceeded lands
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 10:49:36 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 11:11:52 PM
Post by: jess on December 16, 2012, 11:26:26 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 11:28:23 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 11:30:18 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 11:32:37 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 11:36:13 PM
gates are not the way to go! Look at western washington the roads are gated off and the natives get keys!!!! Do u think it will be any different on the east side????No offense Jess but you are miss informed. If you know of indians that have keys to those gates they didn't get them officially.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 11:39:35 PM
I said earlier I was kinda hunting with them. I sure wasn't after right whales! No, it twas elk.I was just joking, I like to hike so a locked gate wouldnt bother me, just if someone messed with my rig while out hunting
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 11:40:57 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 11:45:49 PM
So since you are new here can you give us your stance on the situation and a suggestion for a solution?I said earlier I was kinda hunting with them. I sure wasn't after right whales! No, it twas elk.I was just joking, I like to hike so a locked gate wouldnt bother me, just if someone messed with my rig while out hunting
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 11:49:07 PM
Post by: jess on December 16, 2012, 11:50:13 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 11:50:37 PM
No need to back a newcomer into a corner.He chose to comment in this thread, is it unreasonable to ask him his opinions? :dunno:
Post by: MountainWalk on December 16, 2012, 11:52:33 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 11:54:17 PM
No, it's not unreasonable.I didn't think so either.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 11:55:45 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 11:59:03 PM
Its not I've answered phool in a pm:tup:
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 04:48:34 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 17, 2012, 06:46:28 AM
ferry co has lots of locked roads starting Dec 1 to protect wintering areas
Most of those gates up here near Curlew are not even up as I stated before. The parts are laying right next to posts that are in the ground. Vulcan Mtn is a perfect example. Up past the job corp, samething. The only gates that are up are for Forest Capitol Land.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 06:54:15 AM
Hes not new here, he has been reincarnated. I was kinda hoping he would come back as an owl or something but he is still a jokester. :chuckle:An owl is a messagener of death, why an owl :dunno:
Its all good bone still got love for the haters :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 07:01:51 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:05:44 AM
There's a legend of helping lost kids, just follow the owl :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:08:28 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 17, 2012, 07:31:48 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 09:39:13 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 09:57:01 AM
Lol good one plateau
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 11:24:53 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 12:02:27 PM
Post by: Curly on December 17, 2012, 12:15:37 PM
gates are not the way to go! Look at western washington the roads are gated off and the natives get keys!!!! Do u think it will be any different on the east side????No offense Jess but you are miss informed. If you know of indians that have keys to those gates they didn't get them officially.
I read on this site last year about the Quinalts having keys to gated areas over on the Oly Pen and the hunters were frustrated about hiking and biking in and getting the elk shot out from under them by the natives driving in and shooting the elk with rifles. Don't know how credible the story was? :dunno:
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 12:41:33 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2012, 02:37:53 PM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 17, 2012, 07:37:00 PM
And this is a serious question: what's the next step? Who do we need to contact, as a group or as individuals, and with what information or proposal? I'll donate my time to do what is needed.
And those of you who are up there, please take pictures of these pukes with piles of bucks in their vehicles. Send them to the media in Yakima, in Wenatchee, Spokane, Seattle. That's really the only way to get the word out. The media will contact the tribe, like they did with probably the same pukes killing elk in the Nile feed lot a couple of years ago. Who knows if the one instance of getting called out in the news media did anything, but if it keeps coming out, who knows.
Something has to be done. I don't know of any way to do anything, other than taking pictures, but I'll hop on if anybody else has an avenue to pursue.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:41:21 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2012, 07:43:08 PM
And those of you who are up there, please take pictures of these pukesThe pukes are white poachers as well.
Post by: fishunt247 on December 17, 2012, 07:55:30 PM
And I call a spade a spade, even if the spade wants to be called by some other name that will offend him less.
Time, have you contributed one intelligent thought or question to this now 23 page thread? I mean, I don't want to name call; just asking a question.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:13:33 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 02:28:34 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 02:41:31 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 02:45:01 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:09:26 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 03:09:33 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 21, 2012, 04:21:42 PM
Forget locking the gates. Lock this dead topic.Why, it would help a lot.
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2012, 05:41:49 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 27, 2012, 05:48:03 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 27, 2012, 07:17:35 PM
Better something than nothing...
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2012, 08:17:37 PM
:tup::yeah:
Better something than nothing...
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 27, 2012, 08:30:17 PM
A job well done. :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2012, 08:31:28 PM
For those who took the time to contact the Entiat RD and asked that they participate in this closure, thank you.We know its a little late for this year but hoping we can come up with something for next year and on.
A job well done. :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 27, 2012, 08:31:53 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2012, 08:33:21 PM
Well time to bust out tha sleds :chuckle:Knock yourself out
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 27, 2012, 08:37:35 PM
I tried that before an found out I'm to tough to knock myself out :chuckle:Well time to bust out tha sleds :chuckle:Knock yourself out
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2012, 08:47:54 PM
:tup:
Better something than nothing...
I agree. I just wish they would have said no motorized vehicles, period.
But, this will keep the 99% of the people out. :tup:
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 27, 2012, 09:07:29 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 27, 2012, 09:18:27 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2012, 09:29:22 PM
The article says the roads are closed. Does that mean all these roads have locked gates, or is there just a sign saying "road closed"?
Post by: huntergreg on December 27, 2012, 09:34:26 PM
OK, again, I think this is great, but another pessimistic question...
The article says the roads are closed. Does that mean all these roads have locked gates, or is there just a sign saying "road closed"?
I would think they are just closed. I dont think they went up and put gates.
Post by: bobcat on December 27, 2012, 09:36:41 PM
OK, again, I think this is great, but another pessimistic question...
The article says the roads are closed. Does that mean all these roads have locked gates, or is there just a sign saying "road closed"?
I would think they are just closed. I dont think they went up and put gates.
Well, someone said previously in this thread that the gates are already there and just need to be closed. I don't know. But, I think if there are no gates, the indians will continue to access that area, until the snow gets too deep.
Post by: huntnphool on December 27, 2012, 09:38:28 PM
Most of the roads already have gates and are to be locked.OK, again, I think this is great, but another pessimistic question...
The article says the roads are closed. Does that mean all these roads have locked gates, or is there just a sign saying "road closed"?
I would think they are just closed. I dont think they went up and put gates.
Post by: huntergreg on December 27, 2012, 09:43:32 PM
Post by: Harborhunter on December 27, 2012, 10:17:18 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 27, 2012, 11:01:38 PM
Post by: jstone on December 28, 2012, 07:05:58 AM
I also thing the person that is on here was beaten by his parents or something?? thats why he has those rediculouse comments. I would be a little harsher but i dont want to get kicked off or edited again.
Post by: boneaddict on December 28, 2012, 07:15:36 AM
This could also help the "shedding" problems we are encountering from some folks.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fbucks2%2Fsign-1.jpg&hash=492aae2becceb825e70ab41435cc43cf55fbf8e8)
Post by: huntnphool on December 28, 2012, 10:48:34 AM
THis is what they have in the Wenas. Alot of "damage" is done off the main road, but this certainly helps.And that is exactly what we need to push for. :tup:
This could also help the "shedding" problems we are encountering from some folks.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv47%2Fboneaddict%2Fbucks2%2Fsign-1.jpg&hash=492aae2becceb825e70ab41435cc43cf55fbf8e8)
Post by: Rainier10 on December 28, 2012, 11:15:15 AM
Glad to hear something has been done, it is a start.
Post by: colockumelk on December 28, 2012, 12:30:02 PM
Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.
I completely support this. I call these places semi-wilderness areas. They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it. Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health.
The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368). What do they all have in common? They have high densities of road access. This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from.
Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common. Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364). They all have small road densities. They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting.
The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple. Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching. So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream. Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters. Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does.
As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that. The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place.
The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage. And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area. I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land. Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land. If you can walk there then you can still access the land. And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.
(Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)
Post by: fishunt247 on December 28, 2012, 01:37:40 PM
Why can't there be access closures like in the Cowiche and Oak Creek areas, which would make key wintering grounds closed to all access, motorized and non? I understand that the areas with these winter through April 30 closure are where elk are fed, but there have to be certain areas that are the epicenter of deer wintering grounds. It'd be nice to see a few areas totally closed. I'm not saying close the entire area, though it would be ideal. I'm just talking about a few key areas.
Post by: huntnphool on December 28, 2012, 01:53:52 PM
Spot on Colock. :tup:Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.
I completely support this. I call these places semi-wilderness areas. They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it. Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health.
The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368). What do they all have in common? They have high densities of road access. This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from.
Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common. Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364). They all have small road densities. They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting.
The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple. Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching. So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream. Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters. Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does.
As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that. The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place.
The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage. And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area. I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land. Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land. If you can walk there then you can still access the land. And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.
(Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)
I want to make sure everyone knows that this is not solely a indian problem, there is plenty of blame to go around and poaching is a problem as well.
Post by: Fishmasterdan on December 28, 2012, 03:17:48 PM
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.
Post by: boneaddict on December 28, 2012, 04:16:39 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 28, 2012, 04:59:31 PM
This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.
Bull caca? Really? So your OK with leaving the roads open and depending on the Forest Service personnel and the police spending 24/7 to enforce the laws (rules)?
Selling all the gates to employ an officer for the cost to maintain the gates....that officer has a lot of ground to cover across this State where those gates used to be.
Sure would be a lucrative private contract to secure for the gate removal though. The environmental reviews and related permitting would be expensive. :chuckle:
Post by: JLS on December 28, 2012, 05:10:44 PM
Like I mentioned, 1 main rd through the unit away from the wintering grounds and gated/barricaded roads that lead off of it.
I completely support this. I call these places semi-wilderness areas. They have enough roads so you can drive into the back country but not so many spur roads that every drainage has a road into it. Every single study shows a direct correlation between road densities and animal numbers and health.
The GMUs that have the most amount of non-native poaching and native overharvest is in the Colockum (251, 328, 329) Manastash, (340) Umptaneum (343), Nile (352) Bethel (360) and the Cowiche (368). What do they all have in common? They have high densities of road access. This leafs to the animals having less areas to escape people from.
Now let's compare the GMUs that have the healthiest herds and what they have in common. Places such as The Wenaha and Tuccannon units, Teannaway (335), Little Nachese (346) Bumping (356) and Rimrock (364). They all have small road densities. They see very small amounts of non-native poachijg and native overharvesting.
The cheapest and easiest way to protect our herds and increase their size and health is road closures plain and simple. Even during a good economy the WDFW doesn't have enough money to hire enough game wardens to properly patrol and protect our animals from poaching. So more wardens to he effective is a pipe dream. Even then places with alot of roads still get hammered by licensed hunters. Colockum is a perfect example of what to many roads does.
As far as stricter penalties the WDFW does not have the power to set penalties and fines. Our state legislature does that. The WDFW only enforces the rules set in place.
The best way is to close off all the spur roads that seem to go into every drainage. And leave open all the main roads so people can still reasonably access a general area. I hear tike and time again people saying we have a right to go every where on public land. Which I agree. But nowhere does it say that you uave the right to drive everywhere on public land. If you can walk there then you can still access the land. And if a spur road gets closed thats one less road our taxes have to pay to maintain that can instead go to pay for enforcement. Also for enforcement that equals a smaller area they have to patrol making enforcment densities thicker.
(Never been to the Entiat so I am not referring specifically to the Entiat in this post)
Add Lick Creek to your list of high/over harvest areas. Ironically, good road access.
Post by: JLS on December 28, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.
If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.
Post by: Fishmasterdan on December 28, 2012, 07:13:51 PM
If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.
I would agree with that.
Post by: JLS on December 28, 2012, 07:16:15 PM
If the primary purpose is to provide winter range, then I am A-okay with closing down access during the more vulnerable months of the year.
I would agree with that.
:brew:
Post by: skywalker253 on December 28, 2012, 08:03:18 PM
This is an absolute insult. How would you like it if some group of activist's stopped you from driving down your driveway because of wintering frogs. You would be mad as hell. You should be mad as hell because that is exactly whats happening to OUR lands. These public lands are for OUR use.
I am tired of hearing "well there is too many poachers, or people dumb garbage". That's bull caca, thats why we have police and forest service people for. We need to enforce the rules we currently have. Its no different than gun laws. We dont need to restrirct guns, we need to enforce the laws currently in place.
You are restricting access to some while giving others an advantage due to locked gates. You could sell all the dumb as gates in this state and employ a full time officer for the cost of maintain the gates.
I understand your point regarding public lands being for our use. I agree with you. The issue at hand; if the public land areas are abused, then we no longer have a reason to go up there. We are better off having them temporarily closed to try and protect the resource versus leaving them open. Unfortunately the funding is not in place to employee the resources needed to try and catch people in the act. No different then your local police. A priority call, such as a domestic violence incident will get responded to before an auto theft. We live in a reactive society. I am guessing little will be done in these areas, until the animals are shot off. Then the WSDFW will launch a huge effort to restore the area and use it as an example of how great they manage our wildlife. Reactive not proactive...
Post by: predatorpro on December 28, 2012, 08:08:14 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 28, 2012, 08:30:28 PM
wont closing gates just make more people hunt in less number of areas? gate roads and they just go somewhere else which would cause other areas to be overhunted from an increase in more hunters in an areaGuys..............we are not talking about general season and permit hunters in this thread. Please read through the thread if you do not understand the entire topic, thanks.
Post by: colockumelk on December 29, 2012, 06:26:14 PM
wont closing gates just make more people hunt in less number of areas? gate roads and they just go somewhere else which would cause other areas to be overhunted from an increase in more hunters in an area
Won't matter because when hunting pressure comes around the animals leave. They will go to places that they can escape from hunting pressure. If this is the west side where its super thick this could be 1/4 mile from the road. If its an open area such as the Colockum this could mean getting at least 2 miles from the roads. The problem for places like the Colockum is if there isnt any places that the animals can go to get 2 miles from a road.
So if road closures happen in GMU 1 driving more hunters to GMU 2 because GMU 2 has a lot of roads.... Most likely there's already a bunch of people in GMU 2 whose pressure pushes the animals away from the roads anyways. There wont be much affect.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 29, 2012, 06:32:14 PM
Post by: jess on December 29, 2012, 08:10:14 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 30, 2012, 07:59:38 AM
Post by: colockumelk on December 30, 2012, 09:06:31 AM
Post by: jess on December 30, 2012, 10:20:44 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 30, 2012, 10:39:42 AM
I have hunted down there many times and shed hunted lots of those ridges for years... Do u realy think gates will stop poaching??? Its the same as taking away guns and saying there will be no more murders! Adress the problem where it is and closing public land is not the problem! I hate seeing this happen to this herd, now with the gates the poaching is still happening but we just cant see it!
I've kind of been thinking about this argument in my head, as well.
Post by: ribka on December 30, 2012, 11:03:46 AM
Close gates from 11/01 to 05/01 every year. I recently skied about 2 miles behind locked gates
and saw over 100 elk and deer yarded up in canyons. With amount of snow there is no way poachers will access these areas if gates are closed.
Based upon personal observations all of the poaching takes place near roads and areas easily accessed by truck, ATV
quote author=jess link=topic=112872.msg1497715#msg1497715 date=1356840614]
It is sad it has come to closing roads on public land!!! like i said before once gates get shut they dont like to open.. A few years down the road you watch this area will be walk in only year round! The state and tribes need to grow some balls get together and manage these areas.. Its permit only for us so why not make it permit only for natives?
[/quote]
Post by: Tbar on December 30, 2012, 11:18:09 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 30, 2012, 11:34:16 AM
I'd rather walk in to hunt and save the herd, than drive and continue this slaughter. :twocents: and when that's your only option right now to somewhat controlling these killings, everybody should come together instead of bitch about some "right" taken away. Funny thing is, nearly all the bitchers don't hunt, access, nor live near this area. :twocents::yeah: Well said Mtn :tup:
Post by: danderson on December 30, 2012, 04:26:35 PM
Post by: huntrights on February 11, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,118211.0.html
--------------------------------------------------------------
Please contact the Community Development, Housing & Tribal Affairs Committee to respectfully ask them to oppose
HB1495 - AN ACT Relating to access of tribal members to state lands; and
HB1496 - AN ACT Relating to hunting-related enforcement actions involving tribal members.
Links to HB1495:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1495
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1495.pdf (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1495.pdf)
Links to HB1496:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1496&year=2013
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1496.pdf (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1496.pdf)
Also, please contact your state Representatives and respectfully ask that they oppose these Bills (You can use the same message sent to the Community Development, Housing & Tribal Affairs Committee).
Find Your Washington State Legislator:
http://app.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/
Copy and paste the email addresses for the Community Development, Housing & Tribal Affairs Committee:
john.mccoy@leg.wa.gov; sherry.appleton@leg.wa.gov; jan.angel@leg.wa.gov; norm.johnson@leg.wa.gov; larry.haler@leg.wa.gov; liz.pike@leg.wa.gov; cindy.ryu@leg.wa.gov; sharontomiko.santos@leg.wa.gov; david.sawyer@leg.wa.gov
Copy and paste subject:
Please Oppose HB1495 and HB1496 – Tribal Access to State Lands and Hunting-related Enforcement
Copy and Paste message:
Dear Community Development, Housing & Tribal Affairs Committee:
I am writing to respectfully request that you oppose
HB1495 - AN ACT Relating to access of tribal members to state lands; and
HB1496 - AN ACT Relating to hunting-related enforcement actions involving tribal members.
While I do hold the Washington State Indian Tribes in high regard, I am concerned that both of these Bills are vague, and will result in prejudiced consequences. HB1495 would give preferential treatment to tribal members that would not be available to any other class of citizens. HB1496 would remove jurisdiction from Washington State law enforcement personnel in at least some areas where they now have jurisdiction; they would be required to surrender it exclusively to tribal authorities when a tribal member is involved.
Thank you very much for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
[Your contact information]
Post by: huntnphool on February 12, 2013, 09:01:19 AM
Post by: coachcw on February 12, 2013, 11:44:11 AM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on February 12, 2013, 12:32:38 PM
Post by: wright on February 24, 2013, 07:16:45 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on February 28, 2013, 08:18:58 AM
With a couple more big bucks being killed in Entiat the last few days I think its about time they start locking the gates in all the winter ranges early, and posting no motorized vehicles, walking or biking in only.
The question is "when" would be the time to do it? Personally I would like to see them locked Sept 1st, "hunters" will have to work a little harder but it would be the fairest time since no one group would get a advantage.
Its really the only way to keep most people that abuse the system from destroying it. :twocents:
I agree 100% and not just in the Entiat.
Post by: npaull on February 28, 2013, 08:22:53 AM
Quote
I agree 100% and not just in the Entiat.
x2