Post by: boonerboy on December 15, 2012, 06:55:14 PM
Post by: huntergreg on December 15, 2012, 07:01:49 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 15, 2012, 07:22:42 PM
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,112872.msg1482207.html#msg1482207 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,112872.msg1482207.html#msg1482207)
Post by: Craig on December 15, 2012, 11:18:07 PM
Post by: csaaphill on December 15, 2012, 11:30:15 PM
Post by: buglebuster on December 15, 2012, 11:43:47 PM
I noticed the gate was still open yesterdaySounds like the indian slaughter is in full motion right now.
Will be down in oak creek tomorrow. They haven't shut the gate yet :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:. Can't wait to see truck loads of deer and elk coming out tomorrow :tup: :tup: :drool: :bash: :bash:.
Post by: husky270 on December 15, 2012, 11:56:28 PM
Post by: sled on December 16, 2012, 01:46:42 AM
Was expecting to see a thread on what's going on in the entiat right now. I hear its just more of the same, Indians slaughtering big mulies on their winter range. Someone have more details? Heard some info but just hearsay at this point. All I know is SOMETHING needs done before someone gets hurt or killed over this crap!suprise suprise! Never heard of this before. Thanks for the info.
Post by: adamR on December 16, 2012, 09:18:08 AM
Would be an easy place to sick what few wardens we have on the case not many escape routes it sickens me if this is happening give me more info and we will nail them :bash:
How exactly are we going to "nail them" and what are the extra wardens going to do? Putting more man power there isn't going to do anything since they have the "right" to do this.
Post by: jackelope on December 16, 2012, 09:39:24 AM
Would be an easy place to sick what few wardens we have on the case not many escape routes it sickens me if this is happening give me more info and we will nail them :bash:It's natives hunting. Nothing any warden can do about it. Maybe put some news crews up there.
Dunno.
Post by: Houndhunter on December 16, 2012, 09:46:43 AM
Would be an easy place to sick what few wardens we have on the case not many escape routes it sickens me if this is happening give me more info and we will nail them :bash:It's natives hunting. Nothing any warden can do about it. Maybe put some news crews up there.
Dunno.
You think they'd report it? In our eyes its wrong but I dont know if anyone else really thinks so unfortunately...
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 16, 2012, 09:59:01 AM
The Oregon big three elk tags take 20ish points to draw (ok high teens but it'll be 20-25 soon enough)
NW Oregon rut deer hunts are all in the teens (for now)
Almost all WA quality deer and elk hunts are more or less OIL hunts.
Or an every year, shoot em whenever you want three month season... :twocents:
Post by: fishingnut71 on December 16, 2012, 10:03:16 AM
Post by: sled on December 16, 2012, 10:09:32 AM
put your own lock on the gate and watch them pile up at the gate with no where to go. Then take pics of every vehicle and post pics everywhere! It will get around to the general public that doesnt get out much and paint a pretty bad picture of REALLY what is happening in the wintering grounds right now. :twocents::yeah: Damn good idea right there. That would be funny as hell.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 16, 2012, 10:16:48 AM
Post by: mwhunter on December 16, 2012, 10:59:54 AM
Post by: Harborhunter on December 16, 2012, 11:22:26 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 16, 2012, 11:26:11 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 16, 2012, 11:32:58 AM
Post by: jstone on December 16, 2012, 11:36:36 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on December 16, 2012, 11:46:32 AM
Post by: mwhunter on December 16, 2012, 11:53:29 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 12:02:10 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 16, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
We don't need that.
Entitlement programs are running this country into the ground, read into that what you will...
Post by: Jingles on December 16, 2012, 12:21:24 PM
What a crock of BS
Post by: WAmuleyHunter on December 16, 2012, 12:57:24 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 16, 2012, 12:59:29 PM
Really to bad about this action by a certain group of people especially when they preach that they are the caretakers of Mother Earth and her animals.
What a crock of BS
We have good tribes like the colville and such, they must be absolutely disgusted with how other tribes like you know who. And how they practice their "ancient" hunting and gathering ways..
Post by: huntnphool on December 16, 2012, 01:19:55 PM
Post by: romaknows on December 16, 2012, 01:53:40 PM
And they like to preach that it was the "white man" that wiped out the buffalo, yeah right!
I thought it was the '' white man'' that killed off the buffalo?? :dunno:
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 16, 2012, 02:02:42 PM
And they like to preach that it was the "white man" that wiped out the buffalo, yeah right!
I thought it was the '' white man'' that killed off the buffalo?? :dunno:
Is there a book out there that gives a true documentation of how tribes managed natural resources?
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2012, 02:12:31 PM
Post by: wsmnut on December 16, 2012, 02:28:36 PM
I wouldn't give the Colvilles a free pass, though I agree their wildlife management is better, but their topography/geology/geography is completely different. They are after rights to hunt the Methow as we sit and deliberate on this. They want their ceded lands extended, and are on the verge of getting it.Who is going to give it up? And why is this not publicly known?
Trying not to wretch....
Wsmnut
Post by: Craig on December 16, 2012, 06:38:43 PM
Are the Indians shooting doe up their to or just bucks? Either way it's bad. A majority of the doe are prego, Some with twins. All these deer add up to a big number.
Post by: fishingnut71 on December 16, 2012, 07:05:06 PM
Post by: sled on December 16, 2012, 07:11:24 PM
And they like to preach that it was the "white man" that wiped out the buffalo, yeah right!how many years ago was that? I think we have figured out we need to manage the wildlife better now. That goes for everyone!
Post by: Elkbow33 on December 16, 2012, 07:13:45 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 16, 2012, 07:57:24 PM
Post by: Elkbow33 on December 16, 2012, 08:06:10 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2012, 08:07:43 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 16, 2012, 08:13:03 PM
lol! no they cannot have hunts like the arizona and new mexico reservations do! The great state of washington will not allow you to hunt there!lol colville tribe tried to have non member bear hunts and state said sorry we control non members so we will arrest and cite non members when they come off the reservation with a bear! its a complex thing!
I dont think thats correct, as stated the quinalts guide bear with hounds and bait. From what I've heard, its totally up to the tribe. Most that I know do not allow hunting for nonmembers on their reservations. Can't even tag along on a hunt
Post by: cougarbart on December 16, 2012, 08:21:55 PM
Post by: Elkbow33 on December 16, 2012, 08:23:10 PM
Post by: Elkbow33 on December 16, 2012, 08:24:19 PM
Post by: elkrack on December 16, 2012, 08:31:51 PM
Post by: sled on December 16, 2012, 08:52:54 PM
i just came up with the best idea ever! we can get tow truck drivers together to offer the indians a special deal on all the cars parked in front of thier houses. tow the cars to all the wintering grounds and pile the cars at the enterances that alone would stop the indians from getting to the deer and elk. :tup::chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:
Post by: Simcoe hunter on December 16, 2012, 08:58:48 PM
It is a crying shame that they don't have to follow our rules when off the rez. If they had to buy a tag and follow the same rules we do we would only see a very tiny % of them hunting where we hunt.
I used to work at the Yakama owned mill in White Swan. Not all of them agree with the behavior I am hearing described. On the other hand, I met some of the most racist individuals on earth there too. Figure it's one more way to put it to "whitey".
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 09:19:44 PM
my great uncle(80 years old) is a quinalt, and I was able to tag along and be a packer.....according to him!!!!! He was regulated and able to shoot two deer and two elk annually...this was ten years ago mind you. All I was saying in my first post is that I as well as many other hunters in Washington state are fed up, with the overtaking of animals on our land. and I say our land, because we pay taxes.....!I also pay taxes :tup:
Keep tryn lol
Post by: bigtex on December 16, 2012, 09:21:18 PM
How many of you have read the Treaty of 1855? It doesn't sound like some of you have. The federal government agreed to allow the 13(?) bands and tribes that make up the Yakama nation to hunt and gather on their usual lands and fishing sites, and any unclaimed lands. The real kicker is what the Feds allow to be interpreted as unclaimed land. That would be national forests, BLM, the feeding station at Naches, etc... Do you remember the tribal member shooting elk at the feeding station a few years back?
Federal agencies don't simply call their lands "unclaimed." A judge was the one who stated that lands that were used for hunting such as DNR, WDFW, and federal lands such as BLM, USFS, etc. are to be considered "unclaimed" and open to tribal hunting. You seem to think that this was a decision by a federal agency, which it was not.
Post by: Simcoe hunter on December 16, 2012, 09:26:43 PM
Post by: oldschool on December 16, 2012, 10:41:03 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on December 16, 2012, 10:48:53 PM
my great uncle(80 years old) is a quinalt, and I was able to tag along and be a packer.....according to him!!!!! He was regulated and able to shoot two deer and two elk annually...this was ten years ago mind you. All I was saying in my first post is that I as well as many other hunters in Washington state are fed up, with the overtaking of animals on our land. and I say our land, because we pay taxes.....!I also pay taxes :tup:
Keep tryn lol
Well isn't that Suck City, it can't all be free. :tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 16, 2012, 11:10:26 PM
Not really cause nothing is free not even freedom :tup:my great uncle(80 years old) is a quinalt, and I was able to tag along and be a packer.....according to him!!!!! He was regulated and able to shoot two deer and two elk annually...this was ten years ago mind you. All I was saying in my first post is that I as well as many other hunters in Washington state are fed up, with the overtaking of animals on our land. and I say our land, because we pay taxes.....!I also pay taxes :tup:
Keep tryn lol
Well isn't that Suck City, it can't all be free. :tup:
Post by: wazzu99 on December 17, 2012, 10:44:10 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 10:49:08 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 17, 2012, 11:15:23 AM
Go for it lol you will not make it lol
I believe history proved that wrong. ;)
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 11:19:11 AM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 11:21:15 AM
Post by: woodywsu on December 17, 2012, 11:38:38 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 11:39:15 AM
Lol new day in age boyGo for it lol you will not make it lol
I believe history proved that wrong. ;)
Post by: MtnMuley on December 17, 2012, 11:43:31 AM
Lol new day in age boyGo for it lol you will not make it lol
I believe history proved that wrong. ;)
Then why you relying on them old treaties, son?
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 11:45:37 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 11:50:33 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 11:51:45 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 11:53:37 AM
Post by: TD on December 17, 2012, 12:32:22 PM
Think ! Think ! Think ! Wouldn't it be better if all of us benefited for now and the future? Think about it. And also, I know this is a relatively small group that is giving all of you a bad name. How about some of you tribe members that are also members of this Forum try to use your influence and talk some sense into these guys?
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 12:37:33 PM
Post by: Alchase on December 17, 2012, 12:50:15 PM
It is a very small percentage that is doing this and it's like talking to some of the guys on here. They don't want to here what's being said no matter how many times you say it, their mind is made up regardless. I know I've tried to speak with some and the message never got off the ground. I'm doing what I can with what I get and hopefully something can be done to stop the abuse and overharvesting before it's to late.
Your right Plat, most of us already have are minds made up, and probably always will :chuckle:
I am willing to bet that most on here still appreciate the hard work you do put in :hello:
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2012, 01:23:40 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 01:31:12 PM
It is a very small percentage that is doing this and it's like talking to some of the guys on here. They don't want to here what's being said no matter how many times you say it, their mind is made up regardless. I know I've tried to speak with some and the message never got off the ground. I'm doing what I can with what I get and hopefully something can be done to stop the abuse and overharvesting before it's to late.
If its such a small percentage and you know of the tribal members abusing their rights. Then how come the tribe hasnt gone after these guys???
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 01:34:42 PM
They can change regulations but then that is taking away freedoms and rights they have. You know how well we respond to that.
Post by: fishNhunt on December 17, 2012, 01:36:35 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 01:38:07 PM
It is a very small percentage that is doing this and it's like talking to some of the guys on here. They don't want to here what's being said no matter how many times you say it, their mind is made up regardless. I know I've tried to speak with some and the message never got off the ground. I'm doing what I can with what I get and hopefully something can be done to stop the abuse and overharvesting before it's to late.
If its such a small percentage and you know of the tribal members abusing their rights. Then how come the tribe hasnt gone after these guys???
As I have reiterated time and time again, our Leaders do not know everybody or everything as a lot of people on here would like to think. they want credible proof/evidence/witnesses that things like this is being done not just by our own Tribesmen but, others as well. Just saying this happened and that happened because you heard isn't credible. I've been told time and time again if I don't find credible anything then in their eyes it's not happening so why worry about it.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 01:41:47 PM
At this point htey don't have any legal ramifications to do so. Same reason Clinton could go on Monicas dress. It may be a black eye to the tribe, but really nothing can be done about it. Right?
They can change regulations but then that is taking away freedoms and rights they have. You know how well we respond to that.
Then who in the tribe regulates tribal hunting? If this makes the whole tribe look bad I would think they would nip it in the butt. Unless its more than just a select few like I'm sure it is.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 01:46:57 PM
So if they get video proof, then what will they do?
Post by: huntnfmly on December 17, 2012, 01:50:45 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 01:52:13 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 01:54:47 PM
Plat,
So if they get video proof, then what will they do?
It's like anything else, you have to build a case to show cause for wanting to do anything. One incident isn't going to be even a dent, it can be chalked up to an isolated incident but, a history of incidents, that is something else.
Like plat has said many times they need proof and pics. Of 15 deer piled up in bed of truck not just rumors
I have to agree with a neutral mind. Unless I have credible pics or witnesses this incident didn't happen. I know it happened but, if I were in a position of authority I'd say it didn't, based solely on the word of people I don't know. They could possibly be making it up just to make it look bad, who knows for sure until I see some proof or have somebody that can be a credible witness to the events.
I'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:
Some people do and some people don't and that's the biggest problem, the ones that matter don't know what's going on. They aren't worried about one or two families they are to busy worrying about the big matters that involve the Tribe as a whole.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 17, 2012, 01:58:06 PM
[/quote]
Cmon Plat! You come off as a very intelligent individual, who knows his stuff etc. Do you expect the forum to beleive that the tribal leaders don't beleive this is happening, unless they see proof? So in their eyes; all of us in this forum are making this stuff up. The complaints for the game department are all BS etc. I am curious to hear their response when the natives shot a bull elk at the Oak Creek feeding station and asked the game department to open the gate, so they could retrieve their elk. That was witnessed by more than 50-75 people. My understanding, was an article was written up about the abuse in the Yakima paper and the Seattle Times. My source is the Oak Creek feeding station and whoever the 2 game wardens are that patrol the area. This was 2 years ago. I was at the feeding station the week after it happened and people were very upset at the station.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 17, 2012, 02:02:58 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 02:10:10 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 17, 2012, 02:33:05 PM
Example- The natives allowed 50 CRAB POTS PER NATIVE. We are only allowed 2 PER PERSON. They have NO LIMIT on crab. We have 5 CRAB LIMIT PER PERSON. They natives went in 1 month prior to the general crab season this July and had 2000 plus CRAB POTS out in. They did this for 1 month straight. They are not suppose to keep FEMALE CRAB. I caught a guy at the dock with easy 500 females of all sizes. I asked him why he had them and he said "it must of been a mistake". He threw them over board and that was the end of it. You can say that this was an issolated incident, but the same guys are out there daily; just like our winter ranges. If the tribe cares about the resource, then setting a 50 CRAB POT PER NATIVE AND NO LIMIT is NOT protecting the resource. That is called ABUSE and wiping them OUT!!!
Why do you think the Nisqually has barely any crab anymore? Cus the Nisqually natives went in and wiped them all out.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 02:51:22 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2012, 03:17:52 PM
Plat,
So if they get video proof, then what will they do?
It's like anything else, you have to build a case to show cause for wanting to do anything. One incident isn't going to be even a dent, it can be chalked up to an isolated incident but, a history of incidents, that is something else.Like plat has said many times they need proof and pics. Of 15 deer piled up in bed of truck not just rumors
I have to agree with a neutral mind. Unless I have credible pics or witnesses this incident didn't happen. I know it happened but, if I were in a position of authority I'd say it didn't, based solely on the word of people I don't know. They could possibly be making it up just to make it look bad, who knows for sure until I see some proof or have somebody that can be a credible witness to the events.I'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:
Some people do and some people don't and that's the biggest problem, the ones that matter don't know what's going on. They aren't worried about one or two families they are to busy worrying about the big matters that involve the Tribe as a whole.
So basically what you are saying is that your tribal leaders are going to bury their heads in the sand? If they don't believe the accusations why don't they do something proactive such as INVESTIGATING the claims? Our game department doesn't just say "oh well you didn't bring me 100% irrefutable evidence of repeated violations" they investigate. Sounds to me like they just don't want to know. Which is sad because that means they just don't care. Some stewards they are...
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2012, 03:20:51 PM
So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.:yeah: x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 17, 2012, 03:33:06 PM
So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.:yeah: x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.
I wonder what happens, when a fellow tribe member gets murdered? Do they ask the witness for a video and pics?
"No video no pics...she must have died of natural causes." Despite the fact she has a single bow and arrow wound to her chest.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 03:43:44 PM
As I have reiterated time and time again, our Leaders do not know everybody or everything as a lot of people on here would like to think. they want credible proof/evidence/witnesses that things like this is being done not just by our own Tribesmen but, others as well. Just saying this happened and that happened because you heard isn't credible. I've been told time and time again if I don't find credible anything then in their eyes it's not happening so why worry about it.
Cmon Plat! You come off as a very intelligent individual, who knows his stuff etc. Do you expect the forum to beleive that the tribal leaders don't beleive this is happening, unless they see proof? So in their eyes; all of us in this forum are making this stuff up. The complaints for the game department are all BS etc. I am curious to hear their response when the natives shot a bull elk at the Oak Creek feeding station and asked the game department to open the gate, so they could retrieve their elk. That was witnessed by more than 50-75 people. My understanding, was an article was written up about the abuse in the Yakima paper and the Seattle Times. My source is the Oak Creek feeding station and whoever the 2 game wardens are that patrol the area. This was 2 years ago. I was at the feeding station the week after it happened and people were very upset at the station.
[/quote]
skywalker, I suggest you calm down, slow down and comprehend what I was saying. You've recently joined and that's great, another voice to be heard but, don't sit there thinking you know everything about the situation in regards to me. I've been dealing with these types of situation well before you came here, I've been dealing with them while I've been here and I'm going to continue to deal with them long after I'm done with here.
Am I the one denying these incidents? No. Am I the one saying they are completely false and innaccurate? No. So don't sit there thinking I don't give 2 sh... about what's taking place because I've cared before I came here. My defense has always been for what's good of the resource and providing a voice for my People that wasn't always "rub it in your face" or "who cares" or even "F... Y.." for that matter.
My words I my words and when I speak in response it's always from me and nobody else. I tell everybody like it is and not afraid to wait for somebody else to say it first. When I'm telling you this is what I'm being told, then that's what I'm being told whether you like it or not. Do I believe that some are turning a blind eye? Yes, I believe there are some that turn a blind eye and there isn't a whole lot I can do about that. Do I believe there are some that want the truth and want to learn more about what's going on? Yes.
What you hear from the WDFW Game Wardens is probably true but, they are only talking to other Game Wardens and Staff not the actual Council Leaders, the ones that run our Tribal Government. I don't expect our Leaders to know every single one of our 10,000 plus members but, I do expect them to have an idea of what's taking place and that's what I try to provide for them.
You expect them to know that many people and what they do? That's like asking the City Mayor or County Commissioner to know everybody and what they do.
From what I've been told and what I know this basically has to be handled and presented as if it were a criminal case or civil case. There has to be a sufficient amount of evidence/proof before it is presented to them and then they can decide the next course of action is.
If I were in their position I'd like as much credible proof as possible before I would make a decision because it doesn't just affect one or two families it would affect the entire Tribe. Decisions that affect the entire Tribe have to be met with before the entire Tribal Council and then have to go before the General Assembly and then the General Assembly decides what actions our Leaders take. If you can't convince our Leaders with credible proof and get their support behind whatever decision they make then I guarantee you're not going to win support from the General Assembly and they will veto everything down without skipping a heartbeat.
In all honesty I don't care what happens with other Tribes and their seasons as long as it doesn't affect me or my Tribe. I don't care about what the Nisqually do that's up to them, dislike them for their practices. You can listen to what I have to say or not and you can choose to assist with finding a solution to the problem or you can just continue to sit around and do nothing while damning the Tribe(s). It really doesn't matter to me what you do because I'm going to continue to do what I've been doing.
Grundy, for the most part they have a business to run and when they delegate they delegate. I don't expect them to believe everything I say because I have yet to find anybody on here that is willing to step forward with proof and say this is what I saw and I'm going to testify to it. I've made that request since last winter and all I get is hearsay, people telling me this is what I heard or this is what I told by so and so??? Tell me, does that sound credible to you? It doesn't to me.
I also beg to differ, I reported multiple poaching incidences in the Umtanum and Bethel and they didn't even bother going to check them out or come out. There was one where I basically investigated the whole thing myself and all they said was "ok, thanks for the info." and they never even showed up. I went back every other day for almost a week and didn't see any prints leading up to 2 different sites and if I had gotten to them sooner I would've quartered them myself and took them home. So it's not one side doesn't do nothing it's both sides and it's stuff like that that needs to change.
I'm not embarrassed of who I am and where I come from because I know that's not representative of me nor is it representative of the majority. I represent myself and I let my actions not words speak for themselves and you may or may not like what I have to say but, it's more than what you're going to get from others on this matter.
So pretty much the tribe is going to do nothing like they have been doing. This is going on and its not just rumors and if the Yakima Nation is not going to do anything about it then they are a complete discrace and zit on the face of respectful Tribal nations. I love these deer and elk heards just as much as any hardcore Indian. And it makes me fighting mad to see this happening and nothing being done. Whitefoot is just one of the abusers that is out there.:yeah: x1000 I would be embarrassed to be part of a tribe that did this. To be honest I think the ones that let this happen are worse then the ones doing the killing.
I wonder what happens, when a fellow tribe member gets murdered? Do they ask the witness for a video and pics?
"No video no pics...she must have died of natural causes." Despite the fact she has a single bow and arrow wound to her chest.
No we let the FEDS do that for us and they screw it up almost every time. My cousin was murdered over a girl and the killer was seen leaving the room all bloody but, since they screwed up some minor details and didn't follow procedure he got 4 years on a deal for manslaughter.
Or how about the father that shot his son point blank with a 30-06 in front of his other children and grandchildren, great job FEDS way to let another one walk out the door scott free.
Shall I continue???????
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 03:55:09 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 17, 2012, 03:55:58 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 04:01:26 PM
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 17, 2012, 04:08:58 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 04:16:45 PM
Well Plat, from what I'm gathering on what you're saying, a guy could take justice into his own hands with these deer slayers and probably walk "scott free"? :lol4: Just a joke
I know you're joking but, if it were occur non-tribal member to tribal member then jurisdiction falls to Co., City or State not FEDS unless it was on FED LAND (res.). Again, I'm not promoting violence I'm promoting a means to a solution, an end with no violence. I may not like what's taken place or agree with what some choose to do but, it doesn't mean I wish ill will towards them. I don't have answers either and some day I wish there will be answers before it is to late.
Post by: MtnMuley on December 17, 2012, 04:21:14 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2012, 04:22:35 PM
I feel the same way Plat. Hopefully this will be resolved before someone really blows a gasket.A few of us are working on it, lets see where it takes us.
Post by: gaddy on December 17, 2012, 04:25:44 PM
no ill intent ment.
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 04:26:20 PM
I'm still waiting for my beating from a member that sent me a threat through pm :tup: :chuckle:
Thats been dealt with Hair. DOn't egg it on.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 04:29:45 PM
not sure i understand. all game laws are handled by the tribe(a souveren nation) who dont seem to give a s$$t & seem to condone questional practices as far as game management goes. but now the feds are responsable for violent crimes commited by tribe members? & these are the same people recieving funds from the fed (tax payers) to fund thier law enforcement?
no ill intent ment.
yes, felonies are handled by the FBI not us. We only have the jurisdiction of gross misdemeanors and below. Again, Reservations are under the jurisdiction of the Federal Government.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 17, 2012, 04:40:12 PM
I do not know how the tribal law works but I feel that they need to be more publicly active so people know they are trying .
once again I am not genius enough to make it all better, I wish I was.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on December 17, 2012, 04:47:09 PM
I'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:As far as this individual goes , he does not help peoples attitude towards natives. Especially when he shows up to a sportsmans show with multiple entries in a head and horns competition.
There was nothing sportsman in how he got them. But I am sure he does it to stick it to us, so to speak.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 04:48:18 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 04:50:31 PM
Post by: Holg3107 on December 17, 2012, 04:53:58 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 04:54:08 PM
What it's boiling down to is a tail old as time.. White telling Indians what do... " it would be the tribes best interst to enforce games laws" just like I was the tribes best interest to live on said reservations.. Bla bla bla.. You should change ur game laws so us whit guys can shoot more bulls n buck" that's what I am hearing.. I hunt my ceded land like it was my reservation bucase it was my land before it was reduced to what it is today
Excellent post you must be one hell of a smart guy :rolleyes:
It has nothing to do with Whites being able to kill bucks and bulls, it has to do with these select indians killing all said bucks and bulls in the wintering grounds for sport/profit.
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 05:03:45 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 05:04:43 PM
For sport? Wow u read me like book because that's why I hunt! I gess I am a sportsman.... Wait isn't that what u guys call ur selfs? U can come to my house n see that I eat my "sport meat" .... :tup:
Your grammer is almost as impressive as your "hunting" skills.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 05:06:47 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 05:14:29 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on December 17, 2012, 05:19:39 PM
Post by: _TONY_ on December 17, 2012, 05:24:50 PM
For sport? Wow u read me like book because that's why I hunt! I gess I am a sportsman.... Wait isn't that what u guys call ur selfs? U can come to my house n see that I eat my "sport meat" .... :tup:
Just an honest question here... How many animals do you kill every season?
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 05:25:31 PM
For sport? Wow u read me like book because that's why I hunt! I gess I am a sportsman.... Wait isn't that what u guys call ur selfs? U can come to my house n see that I eat my "sport meat" .... :tup:
Just an honest question here, but how many animals do you kill every season?
You will not get a honest answer to that.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 05:26:54 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 05:30:24 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2012, 05:32:12 PM
Is there an actual season for these tribal hunts? If so would it be possible for tribal members that are concerned about this sort of stuff, to go up in the Entiat and see for themselves whats going on? I think Plat mentioned the tribal council. If its as prolific as it sounds,I would think a little undercover work would go a long ways. Would they care enough to take that sort of initiative? The way things sound on here it wouldnt take long for them to see all they needed to see. I'm actually kind of surprised there hasnt been a bunch of pictures and videos submitted to support these claims.Thats the thing, they don't care. Not one bit. Or this wouldn't be happening.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 05:49:38 PM
2 similar things both completely legal and your the resident expert on our actions? I wonder why the Governor is sitting there ignoring the abuse? Maybe the Feds should step in a revoke the washingtons Statehood that might solve the problem??? You feeling the sarcasm yet and how it does nothing to help the situation? I hunt, not kill in the Ceded Areas as well because its apart of my family and who we are but I'm not out there slaughtering bucks/bulls by the truck loads. I've taken 2 elk, 3 deer and 1 other animal and that's plenty til next season. For I and my family that's enough.
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2012, 06:05:46 PM
As usual grundy is correct on all his assumptions. Maybe we shouldfollow the example of the WDFW and their abillity to manage the Master Hunter Program in the Yakima area?? Sounds like they should know what's going on there and I don't know why they allow that to occur? Oh wait its legal, nothing they can do? Even though its unethical the Governor should know what's going on a take her head out of the sand, she doesn't care what he's doing to the program, he's abusing, I'd be ashamed to call myself an MH Hunter.
2 similar things both completely legal and your the resident expert on our actions? I wonder why the Governor is sitting there ignoring the abuse? Maybe the Feds should step in a revoke the washingtons Statehood that might solve the problem??? You feeling the sarcasm yet and how it does nothing to help the situation? I hunt, not kill in the Ceded Areas as well because its apart of my family and who we are but I'm not out there slaughtering bucks/bulls by the truck loads. I've taken 2 elk, 3 deer and 1 other animal and that's plenty til next season. For I and my family that's enough.
Actually not really similar at all. While I don't necessarily agree with the master hunter program. The master hunters are only hunting in damage areas shooting antlerless elk. They are not out in the prime wintering grounds shooting all the trophy bucks/bulls. The master hunters are actually regulated by their governing body. They also face actual consequences if they over harvest. As far as our game department goes. I would agree that they don't do a very good job. But at least they attempt to do a job. Look at what happens when there is a spree killing in washington. They actually investigate and sometimes even catch the bad guys. You can get as defensive as you want. This wasn't a personal attack on you. But you know what goes on and admit that your governing body does basically nothing to stop it. How are we supposed to feel about that? By the way... 2 elk, 3 deer, and another critter? Must be nice... And for the record, I AM ashamed of our Governor... for so many reasons.
Post by: CAM38 on December 17, 2012, 06:13:59 PM
Post by: CAM38 on December 17, 2012, 06:18:39 PM
tags and no one else's. 15 animals this year wagon? Wow. Do they have grocery stores on your rez? It is 2012.
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 06:20:23 PM
I'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:Pretty sure one of them is posting in this thread right now.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 06:22:49 PM
:yeah:I'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:Pretty sure one of them is posting in this thread right now.
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 06:37:41 PM
don't BS us. You know what the answer is.Well Plat, from what I'm gathering on what you're saying, a guy could take justice into his own hands with these deer slayers and probably walk "scott free"? :lol4: Just a joke
I know you're joking but, if it were occur non-tribal member to tribal member then jurisdiction falls to Co., City or State not FEDS unless it was on FED LAND (res.). Again, I'm not promoting violence I'm promoting a means to a solution, an end with no violence. I may not like what's taken place or agree with what some choose to do but, it doesn't mean I wish ill will towards them. I don't have answers either and some day I wish there will be answers before it is to late.
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2012, 06:39:56 PM
Bigtine, how do you know that?
Because we've asked him before. :chuckle:
Post by: biggdogg on December 17, 2012, 06:49:39 PM
Post by: 3nails on December 17, 2012, 06:56:56 PM
What it's boiling down to is a tail old as time.. White telling Indians what do... " it would be the tribes best interst to enforce games laws" just like I was the tribes best interest to live on said reservations.. Bla bla bla.. You should change ur game laws so us whit guys can shoot more bulls n buck" that's what I am hearing.. I hunt my ceded land like it was my reservation bucase it was my land before it was reduced to what it is todayAre you speaking of the herds or the country? "reduced to what it is today"
Post by: Seabeckian on December 17, 2012, 07:11:43 PM
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 07:14:56 PM
The yakamas that go hunting of the reservation only go for one reason, and that is to trophy hunt. These guys can't find the trophy animals on the reservation because you have to get out of the truck and off the road. The biggest antlered animals I have shot have been on the reservation. Don't get me wrong I hunt off rez but I meat hunt shooting a cow or a calf. I would support off reservation hunting restrictions, but in all honesty nothing will be done until the animals are gone. At least they haven't got all the big bulls out of the teanaway I know where 20 + big bulls are, but not to many bigger then my biggest so I will let them live.do you realize you have the opportunity to help convince the tribe and the leaders it's time to cut back on the shooting?
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:16:35 PM
An we get ALL THE CEEDED LANDS BACK :chuckle:
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 07:16:49 PM
Could you imagine if our government stood up and said; "We changed our mind. We whooped the natives butts outright, and now were done giving handouts that are being continuously abused." Put everyone on an equal playing field, under an equally discriminating federal/local government and see what happens. I understand that the bad is usually all we hear because thats all anyone cares about, but even through my personal experiences I have been disgusted too many times. If the good ones in the mix can't help to regulate the trash amoung them, I think big brother needs to step in. I have met and shared stories with some absolutely amazing Natives, but I'm tired of the crap. I'm not above saying there aren't plenty of trashy hunters on the WDFW side, but look how many people get reported each year by ethical hunters that either cant stand poaching, or just are looking for some incentive points. Why can't the same be done in the Native side?and by the way you owe us 25 mil in back gas taxes!
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:18:21 PM
I bet tha name taste good coming out of your guys mouth tooI'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:Pretty sure one of them is posting in this thread right now.
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2012, 07:20:02 PM
:yeah:
An we get ALL THE CEEDED LANDS BACK :chuckle:
Does your tribe have proof of ownership of all that land?
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:20:52 PM
I dont owe you jack lolCould you imagine if our government stood up and said; "We changed our mind. We whooped the natives butts outright, and now were done giving handouts that are being continuously abused." Put everyone on an equal playing field, under an equally discriminating federal/local government and see what happens. I understand that the bad is usually all we hear because thats all anyone cares about, but even through my personal experiences I have been disgusted too many times. If the good ones in the mix can't help to regulate the trash amoung them, I think big brother needs to step in. I have met and shared stories with some absolutely amazing Natives, but I'm tired of the crap. I'm not above saying there aren't plenty of trashy hunters on the WDFW side, but look how many people get reported each year by ethical hunters that either cant stand poaching, or just are looking for some incentive points. Why can't the same be done in the Native side?and by the way you owe us 25 mil in back gas taxes!
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 07:30:29 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:33:36 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 07:34:55 PM
Post by: Seabeckian on December 17, 2012, 07:43:06 PM
Well your the ding dong its not the tribe that owes it either, the ones who own the gas stations if you ask me but then again you can just blame us as a whole like always
Really? :chuckle: It's the consumer who pays the road tax and other state taxes. About $1.00 per gallon on diesel, so it would be a little more pricey than 25 million lol. On reservations do you just not pay the local tax on fuel? You do have to pay road tax, correct?
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 17, 2012, 07:44:59 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 07:46:30 PM
I bet tha name taste good coming out of your guys mouth tooI'd imagine that the tribe is aware of those hunting in the Entiat with the last name starting with a W :chuckle:Pretty sure one of them is posting in this thread right now.
Actually tastes like I just got a little puke in my mouth.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 17, 2012, 07:49:16 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 17, 2012, 07:53:32 PM
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 08:05:34 PM
As usual I BS. But, that's okay some day things will come to a headway and then everybody is going to have to sit down and deal with this situation and I hope I'm here to see it. As for those that travel outside only to trophy hunt, that's not me and you won't find me near the roads and I've seen plenty of big bulls just not an ethical shot I wanted to take. Bobcat, ill post the map outlining the original tribes and villages tomorrow and you can see where the 14 different tribes came from. As for the rest of this, I'm done for the night since all I've ever put on here was BS, so me and my BS will enjoy the rest of the evening away from the actual BS.I don't know how you can call such a serious problem like this BS. Tribal hunting and the abuse is a serious situation. If your going to dismiss this as BS then it shows everyone what you feel.
Post by: seansfire on December 17, 2012, 08:09:08 PM
atleast some of the illegals comin from mexico are willing to become citizens of the united states and actually pay what they owe and work for a living. not just run around crying about what was taken away and what is owed them. you guys make me sick. and it is funny to me that you 2 guys on here when cornered with facts either try hard to change the subject or you log off. grow some balls and tell the truth for once would you please
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 17, 2012, 08:19:11 PM
If the bank foreclosed on my house could I still come in and use the bathroom?If the bank paid your delinquent water/sewer bill, sure, why not. :chuckle:
Post by: biggdogg on December 17, 2012, 08:20:09 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 08:21:37 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 17, 2012, 08:23:15 PM
As usual I BS. But, that's okay some day things will come to a headway and then everybody is going to have to sit down and deal with this situation and I hope I'm here to see it. As for those that travel outside only to trophy hunt, that's not me and you won't find me near the roads and I've seen plenty of big bulls just not an ethical shot I wanted to take. Bobcat, ill post the map outlining the original tribes and villages tomorrow and you can see where the 14 different tribes came from. As for the rest of this, I'm done for the night since all I've ever put on here was BS, so me and my BS will enjoy the rest of the evening away from the actual BS.One can only beat his head against the wall so many times before he gets a headache.
Ni-night Plat and thanks for what you try and do, the respect you show your heritage and the respect you show our wildlife.
Post by: DBLDWN on December 17, 2012, 08:27:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 17, 2012, 08:29:23 PM
Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousThat would be Mr. Whitefoot, the tribal cop.
Post by: sled on December 17, 2012, 08:30:43 PM
it seems there are several indians on here right now trying to convince a bunch of honest hard working guys who actually work for a living and not mooch and steal and take everything in front of them because they can. you folks should be ashamed of yourselves and i hope your elders grow a pair someday and take control of the tribes and get them on the right track again cause at the moment all i see is a bunch of whining , greedy , thives , who collect far more than they are entitled to.problem with that is the elders are the same way, or they don't care. They have the power to stop the nonsense, and they have chose not to.
atleast some of the illegals comin from mexico are willing to become citizens of the united states and actually pay what they owe and work for a living. not just run around crying about what was taken away and what is owed them. you guys make me sick. and it is funny to me that you 2 guys on here when cornered with facts either try hard to change the subject or you log off. grow some balls and tell the truth for once would you please
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 17, 2012, 08:33:08 PM
Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousThat would be Mr. Whitefoot, the tribal cop.
Yep, kinda looks like a lil red wagon........
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 17, 2012, 08:33:30 PM
You've got to be making that up...?Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousThat would be Mr. Whitefoot, the tribal cop.
Post by: DBLDWN on December 17, 2012, 08:34:45 PM
Funny how fast they took off when they noticed they were being watched. Be even funnier to find out if they got pinched.Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousThat would be Mr. Whitefoot, the tribal cop.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 08:35:28 PM
Post by: Cascade on December 17, 2012, 08:37:49 PM
Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curious
Is this an older Toyota?...maybe an 80's?
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 17, 2012, 08:38:16 PM
Post by: DBLDWN on December 17, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
True story. no need to make it up, wish they would of stuck around so i could of talked to them.You've got to be making that up...?Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousThat would be Mr. Whitefoot, the tribal cop.
Post by: DBLDWN on December 17, 2012, 08:42:30 PM
Anyone know the name of the native that drives the red toyota reg cab pickup? I wanted to ask them if the warden caught up with them after they shot the deer from the cab of the pickup and then drove off the road through the brush to pick it up on saturday. Just curiousLooked like a 90s model
Is this an older Toyota?...maybe an 80's?
Post by: seansfire on December 17, 2012, 08:49:18 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:08:23 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:14:44 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 09:22:16 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:22:41 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:29:29 PM
Post by: Seabeckian on December 17, 2012, 09:31:46 PM
It's a said day when u judge some one u don't when know... But I know all non enrolled member are the same.. I appreciate the people who under stand and get it.. I know that there r Indians that give us a ba name. But the goes both ways... So if ur going to threaten my people ease keep it to ur self... Ur wastin ur time... And for the person wining about huntig deer in the wintering grounds .. Wasn't ur season over two weeks ago in the same spot??? Jut wondering... But it's wrong when an Indian hub the same spot after ur seasons end an it's wrong????
If what is being said is true about you on here (and your certainly not denying it), it sounds like 90% of the members on here would classify you as one of those Indians buddy. I'm not one to slam people on a public forum, but I think this whole situation is rather deceitful on your part.
Btw... Some of your points are intelligent and worth hearing. Press spell check before posting so we can better understand you. I have to every time to save my own face!
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
Not playin the part just calling it how I see it.. I do understand that that thy wait all year... I wait until ur season is over then I hunt.. Would u prefer it diffrent ?? Oh wait u don't wait hunt at all...
You wait until the bucks come down to winter so you can shoot them from the road and be able to kill as many as you want easily. Thats why you wait, your a disgrace and you disgust me.
Post by: JoeE on December 17, 2012, 09:37:16 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 09:37:52 PM
Not playin the part just calling it how I see it.. I do understand that that thy wait all year... I wait until ur season is over then I hunt.. Would u prefer it diffrent ?? Oh wait u don't wait hunt at all...how many deer have you killed in the entiat this year?
how many of them were bucks?
I wont hold my breath waiting for an answer. I suspect you wont answer anyway.
I'm betting your truck was one of the three up there the other day when your people had 15 bucks in the back of those 3 trucks.
Post by: Trailtamer on December 17, 2012, 09:39:02 PM
It's a said day when u judge some one u don't when know... But I know all non enrolled member are the same.. I appreciate the people who under stand and get it.. I know that there r Indians that give us a ba name. But the goes both ways... So if ur going to threaten my people ease keep it to ur self... Ur wastin ur time... And for the person wining about huntig deer in the wintering grounds .. Wasn't ur season over two weeks ago in the same spot??? Jut wondering... But it's wrong when an Indian hub the same spot after ur seasons end an it's wrong????How much did you drink before you wrote that?
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:40:38 PM
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 09:45:13 PM
Post by: ribka on December 17, 2012, 09:46:16 PM
Do bulls and big bucks Taste better than cows and does when shot from roads?
90 percent.. Well believe what u want to believe. How does any one no what I do and where the meat goes after I take it home.. And in Ur eyes it's not possible to eat a deer in two weeks.. Or a elk in a month.. Of to feed people at funeral or name giving memorials. Elders who don't hunt or can't for certain reasons.. I hunt my Rez I hunt my ceded land... U guys don't get it.. I don't buy cow or other meat only when it sounds good at a restrant or I want to BBQ... I eat fish I catch n deer n elk I kill on and off the Rez... It's my right as an enrolled member .. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunter
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 09:46:29 PM
Sorry about the spelling big fingers little key board.. And part flustered about certain people on the cite..
Site
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 09:46:40 PM
.. It's my right as an enrolled member .. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunterexcept for the shooting from the trucks with high powered rifles part.
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2012, 09:47:26 PM
It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunterThat's the problem. How it was then isn't how it is now. Time to realize it's 2012 not 1812 times have changed and we need to manage our resources accordingly.
Post by: Trailtamer on December 17, 2012, 09:51:00 PM
90 percent.. Well believe what u want to believe. How does any one no what I do and where the meat goes after I take it home.. And in Ur eyes it's not possible to eat a deer in two weeks.. Or a elk in a month.. Of to feed people at funeral or name giving memorials. Elders who don't hunt or can't for certain reasons.. I hunt my Rez I hunt my ceded land... U guys don't get it.. I don't buy cow or other meat only when it sounds good at a restrant or I want to BBQ... I eat fish I catch n deer n elk I kill on and off the Rez... It's my right as an enrolled member .. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunterIt may be your right but does that make it right?
Post by: Seabeckian on December 17, 2012, 09:52:29 PM
Do bulls and big bucks Taste better than cows and does when shot from roads90 percent.. Well believe what u want to believe. How does any one no what I do and where the meat goes after I take it home.. And in Ur eyes it's not possible to eat a deer in two weeks.. Or a elk in a month.. Of to feed people at funeral or name giving memorials. Elders who don't hunt or can't for certain reasons.. I hunt my Rez I hunt my ceded land... U guys don't get it.. I don't buy cow or other meat only when it sounds good at a restrant or I want to BBQ... I eat fish I catch n deer n elk I kill on and off the Rez... It's my right as an enrolled member .. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunter
Yeah... Why waste precious time and fuel to drive into the Entiat to knock out some of the top gene pool? I mean if it's just for meat, why not limit yourself to one branched bull or buck like the rest of us? Feel the freezer with does or cows if it's for meat.
Post by: Trailtamer on December 17, 2012, 10:01:23 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 10:06:21 PM
Do bulls and big bucks Taste better than cows and does when shot from roads90 percent.. Well believe what u want to believe. How does any one no what I do and where the meat goes after I take it home.. And in Ur eyes it's not possible to eat a deer in two weeks.. Or a elk in a month.. Of to feed people at funeral or name giving memorials. Elders who don't hunt or can't for certain reasons.. I hunt my Rez I hunt my ceded land... U guys don't get it.. I don't buy cow or other meat only when it sounds good at a restrant or I want to BBQ... I eat fish I catch n deer n elk I kill on and off the Rez... It's my right as an enrolled member .. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunter
Yeah... Why waste precious time and fuel to drive into the Entiat to knock out some of the top gene pool? I mean if it's just for meat, why not limit yourself to one branched bull or buck like the rest of us? Feel the freezer with does or cows if it's for
meat.
Kill some cow elk and doe deer. Better table fare and the management would benefit the herd.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 10:11:38 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 10:19:10 PM
be a real shame if some guys like that had 4 sidewall blowouts at the same time huh ?Sounds like your calling us out here saying you dont slam in a public forum you just threatin people lol whatta joke
Post by: jackelope on December 17, 2012, 10:19:31 PM
But.but.but theres no antlers! :yike:
Hey...you know what they say...cant eat the antlers, right!!!
Post by: huntergreg on December 17, 2012, 10:24:41 PM
But.but.but theres no antlers! :yike:
Hey...you know what they say...cant eat the antlers, right!!!
:yeah:
I just dont see how they can shoot as many as they want. :bash: They should be limited to does and cows!
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 10:25:30 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 10:27:46 PM
I work for everything I got nothing Is handed to me, I pay taxes just like you do.Wonder why bobcat edited this, we can't speak the truth or control what we say, while your people can flat out threaten us huh times haven't changed one bit :rolleyes:
Post by: lil_red_wagon on December 17, 2012, 10:28:12 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2012, 10:28:23 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 17, 2012, 10:29:36 PM
I get it.. I forgot the bucks Belong the mighty white man.. U Indian can have doe n cow but bucks n bulls belong to mighty white as well as the land and earth... Is that better..
Another excellent reply, I gotta hand it to you! You are on a roll! To many well educated responses from you.
Post by: seansfire on December 17, 2012, 10:31:17 PM
i cant belive one of you is a cop. that blows my mind. must have a low bar set to be a tribal cop. sounds like we need a group to spend as much time as possible out at these places the indians are raping to take pics of license plates and faces and turn them in to the feds and the tribal elders until they are forced to deal with this theft of our resources. sooner or later something has got to give.
and by the way smartass we get 1 elk and 1 deer a year most of us , not 20 elk and 20 deer. get a clue thief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bobcat on December 17, 2012, 10:35:03 PM
I work for everything I got nothing Is handed to me, I pay taxes just like you do.Wonder why bobcat edited this, we can't speak the truth or control what we say, while your people can flat out threaten us huh times haven't changed one bit :rolleyes:
Profanity is against the rules- that's why.
I would do the same regardless of who made the post.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 10:37:23 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 17, 2012, 10:38:29 PM
Thanks for tha answer bobcatI work for everything I got nothing Is handed to me, I pay taxes just like you do.Wonder why bobcat edited this, we can't speak the truth or control what we say, while your people can flat out threaten us huh times haven't changed one bit :rolleyes:
Profanity is against the rules- that's why.
I would do the same regardless of who made the post.
Post by: Kazekurt on December 17, 2012, 10:49:21 PM
First off; did a lot of unfair and deplorable things happen to many Native americans in the past? Absolutely, and I'm ashamed of that; much like I'm ashamed of all the other *censored*ty things men have done to each other since the beginning of time. Now, that being said, just about all Americans have ancestors who were cheated, ripped off, oppressed, etc. our country was founded by people who fled their homeland to escape tyranny, oppression, discrimination, and hostility. Likewise, their are many ethnic and religious groups that have suffered despicable treatment since they've been here.
So, here's the rub. For how many generations do we try to right these wrongs with money and special concessions and are we really doing the affected groups any favors by making them victims? It's been my observation that the longer society babies people or groups, the more dependent they become and ambition, self sufficiency, and personal accountability decrease. This isn't just a reservation problem, but also a societal problem as politically our well intended entitlement programs have created many "welfare reservations". Personally, I think people have an innate instinct to fight and overcome and if you let them they'll grow stronger as a result.
The Indians were once a wonder in self sufficiency and we not only wronged them with our actions years ago, but have continued to oppress them by paying them reparations. As a whole, I think mist individuals in these tribes would be better off today had we not made then "sovereign nations". There are certainly other historical examples that support my hypothesis.
The Mormons were driven from ohio by mobs into illinois and Missouri. Their land and businesses were stolen from them, yet the drained a swamp, chiseled out farms, founded the city of Navou and others, and became prosperous and industrious again. Then, they were driven from these states by extermination order to Utah where they again prospered in an area most at the time viewed as uninhabitable.
The moral of all this, they never allowed themselves to be victims! They overcame the ill treatment of others and got stronger by fighting through these trials. To this day, no effort has ever been made to compensate Mormons for their ancestors loses and I guarantee you they'll never ask for it or expect it!(which is too bad because their ground in Ohio, Illinois, and Missouri is probably full of whitetail:-)
There are many other examples of this I just use the Mormons as one example.
So, instead of trying to stick it to the white man for actions of the past, ask yourself if it is really in anyone's best interest! Everybody on this site loves big game, that is why they're here posting and that is why they put their money and time into hunting. There are already enough people out there that want to stop hunting. Lets not fan the flames by practicing and condoning unethical and unsustainable hunting practices.
Lastly, to my native friends, I'm not trying to be another white guy yelling at you. My step mom is a member of the flathead tribe in Montana and she shares many of the same views I do and I know most of you are probably good, ethical sportsman so please help us advocate sustainable game management practices so our grandkids will get to enjoy hunting as well. I'm sorry to spend so much time ranting about politics on a hunting board but after 12 pages I couldn't take it anymore. I hope to see you all on the mountain!
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 17, 2012, 10:59:53 PM
I get it.. I forgot the bucks Belong the mighty white man.. U Indian can have doe n cow but bucks n bulls belong to mighty white as well as the land and earth... Is that better..
What everyone is trying to get at is that meat hunters don't purposely kill the bucks/bulls. Your treaty says you can hunt these lands but there needs to be common sense as part of the process.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 11:06:18 PM
Post by: huntnnw on December 17, 2012, 11:06:37 PM
cant you natives see what a disgrace you are to your people ? you are nothin more than a stinking poacher hiding behind some BS treaty that is so out dated it is stupid. you refuse to answer any questions and when you comment back about something you just claim it is your right or your land. BS. you are a poacher and a thief. i dont like most of what Plat says but atleast he is man enough to answer and do so with respect. you other 2 on here are fall into the other group i listed above.
i cant belive one of you is a cop. that blows my mind. must have a low bar set to be a tribal cop. sounds like we need a group to spend as much time as possible out at these places the indians are raping to take pics of license plates and faces and turn them in to the feds and the tribal elders until they are forced to deal with this theft of our resources. sooner or later something has got to give.
and by the way smartass we get 1 elk and 1 deer a year most of us , not 20 elk and 20 deer. get a clue thief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:yeah: COMPLETE TRASH
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 17, 2012, 11:14:19 PM
Who says meat hunters don't purposely kill bucks and bulls? They do all hunting season long.. Last I checked, a bull was bigger than a cow. All eat fine to me.
When you're out hunting how many more does do you see than bucks? There are days where I see 20 does and no bucks. I'd love to be allowed to hunt to put food on the table year round without a harvest limit, which would make the vast majority of my kills does.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 17, 2012, 11:16:53 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 17, 2012, 11:52:51 PM
I read your comments earlier. It was pretty long winded, so I stopped about mid way through. The only response I will give you, is this. I may be a new member to this site, but I have been on here DAILY since 2007 reading posts. I awarded you the compliment, because I have read enough of you posts, that I feel I have a good understanding of your views, opinions, etc. I respect the fact that you see both sides of this and treat others with respect. I will leave it at that.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 12:18:35 AM
22 deer
Bucks and Does
Now go take that to your tribe for their "so called proof they want to see."
Please double click on the picture title. You can then open it in Picture Viewer and enlarge it.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 12:25:22 AM
Post by: huntergreg on December 18, 2012, 12:27:58 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 05:06:30 AM
Who says meat hunters don't purposely kill bucks and bulls? They do all hunting season long.. Last I checked, a bull was bigger than a cow. All eat fine to me.How could it possibly matter what's bigger when they're literally killing them by the truckload.
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 05:08:30 AM
Well I will if u will. All ur guys profile pics are I'd bucks and bulls?? Weird....u guys are awesome... :tup:
The difference is the buck or bull in our profile picture is the only one we are allowed to kill that year. We get one per year not one dozen. If you can't figure out the difference in that then you are a special kind of stupid....
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 05:09:29 AM
Who says meat hunters don't purposely kill bucks and bulls? They do all hunting season long.. Last I checked, a bull was bigger than a cow. All eat fine to me.Yeah, maybe if you are only killing one a year. But if your killing a bunch of them then thats rediculous.
Post by: HntnFsh on December 18, 2012, 06:09:06 AM
Here is your proof Plat....
22 deer
Bucks and Does
Now go take that to your tribe for their "so called proof they want to see."
Please double click on the picture title. You can then open it in Picture Viewer and enlarge it.
Sure would have been nice to see a liscence plate to go along with that.
Post by: coachcw on December 18, 2012, 06:44:45 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 18, 2012, 06:58:44 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 07:07:26 AM
Here is your proof Plat....
22 deer
Bucks and Does
Now go take that to your tribe for their "so called proof they want to see."
Please double click on the picture title. You can then open it in Picture Viewer and enlarge it.
What is that a picture of? No offense but if you want to call that proof of anything, you're going to need a little more detail. License plates, location, etc. maybe I missed something.
Post by: buglebuster on December 18, 2012, 07:14:44 AM
Post by: buglebuster on December 18, 2012, 07:37:01 AM
I thought so to, you have to click posts by others.I would also like to see more proof, i shared that pic and wrote a little description on the KIMA action news facebook page trying to get the word out. Feel free to go check it out and comment guys!
Bugle, I think they delete it :bash:. I don't see it
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 18, 2012, 07:40:55 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 07:43:24 AM
Another thing about all these deer and elk these guys kill is that they sell most of it. I know a couple hispanic guys at work that buy 3-4 a year out on the yakama rez from the same guy.
Have you reported this to wildlife? If not, why have you not reported this crime?
Post by: buglebuster on December 18, 2012, 07:57:53 AM
Ive been trying to get some more info on who and where it is but they wont tell me. They arent going to give up their guy. They know it pissed me off and ive told them time after time its illegal.Another thing about all these deer and elk these guys kill is that they sell most of it. I know a couple hispanic guys at work that buy 3-4 a year out on the yakama rez from the same guy.
Have you reported this to wildlife? If not, why have you not reported this crime?
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 07:58:28 AM
Matt,
Yes we are aware of the situation that is happening in central Washington. Unfortunately there is nothing that we are able to do. This lies with the Federal Government and they will dictate what will happen. We understand the concern of the hunters in Washington and wish we could do more.
Thank you for reaching out to us and expressing your concern. Please continue to "fight the good fight" and talk to your local officials and representatives, to see if there is anything more you can do. We hope that you will always retain your love for mule deer and conservation. We need people like you out there.
Please keep us posted if anything new comes up.
Thank you,
Rachel Moody
Executive Assistant
Mule Deer Foundation
Post by: buglebuster on December 18, 2012, 08:03:19 AM
Response from MULE DEER FOUNDATION:I call BS :bash:
Matt,
Yes we are aware of the situation that is happening in central Washington. Unfortunately there is nothing that we are able to do. This lies with the Federal Government and they will dictate what will happen. We understand the concern of the hunters in Washington and wish we could do more.
Thank you for reaching out to us and expressing your concern. Please continue to "fight the good fight" and talk to your local officials and representatives, to see if there is anything more you can do. We hope that you will always retain your love for mule deer and conservation. We need people like you out there.
Please keep us posted if anything new comes up.
Thank you,
Rachel Moody
Executive Assistant
Mule Deer Foundation
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 08:07:17 AM
:yeah: They want us to keep fighting the good fight but they can't fight the good fight? I also call BS. They could very easily publicize it. Maybe if we had enough pressure from hunters around this country....Response from MULE DEER FOUNDATION:I call BS :bash:
Matt,
Yes we are aware of the situation that is happening in central Washington. Unfortunately there is nothing that we are able to do. This lies with the Federal Government and they will dictate what will happen. We understand the concern of the hunters in Washington and wish we could do more.
Thank you for reaching out to us and expressing your concern. Please continue to "fight the good fight" and talk to your local officials and representatives, to see if there is anything more you can do. We hope that you will always retain your love for mule deer and conservation. We need people like you out there.
Please keep us posted if anything new comes up.
Thank you,
Rachel Moody
Executive Assistant
Mule Deer Foundation
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:17:55 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 08:20:08 AM
This was not a bad Morning?
Didn't we see this pic last year? Or is this really 2012? Thought I saw it last year during our annual bitch session.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 08:23:20 AM
This was not a bad Morning?Did you use your BOWTECH?
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:24:04 AM
Post by: curlewkiller on December 18, 2012, 08:26:02 AM
I think that any reasonable person sees that unlimited harvesting from any area is wrong. Period. The tribe needs to wake up and regulate individuals that have lost their way in applying a treaty for abusive sport hunting. Native posters, need to step back and really ask themselves if this practice is good for tribal members or the the game. Just because something is legal does not make it right.
I work for everything I got nothing Is handed to me, I pay taxes just like you do.Wonder why bobcat edited this, we can't speak the truth or control what we say, while your people can flat out threaten us huh times haven't changed one bit :rolleyes:
Profanity is against the rules- that's why.
I would do the same regardless of who made the post.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 08:27:39 AM
Now that you all got a rush of blood because I killed the hell out of them. I well tell you that they are not even Indian kills they are a State hunter out of state, with multiple tags. So the guy that put the pic up of the truck load of dear I see you just causing more issue with false information lets please have true facts with proof so something can be done.
What is a rush of blood? Who is trying to mislead?
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:29:35 AM
This was not a bad Morning?
Didn't we see this pic last year? Or is this really 2012? Thought I saw it last year during our annual bitch session.
It was a pic of 2008 and I like to use it because it is a members pic. I think the hunt was in MT. It brings to light not only Natives Kill more than one a year. Im not trying to stir the pot, But some people think one way.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 08:31:18 AM
This was not a bad Morning?
Didn't we see this pic last year? Or is this really 2012? Thought I saw it last year during our annual bitch session.
It was a pic of 2008 and I like to use it because it is a members pic. I think the hunt was in MT. It brings to light not only Natives Kill more than one a year. Im not trying to stir the pot, But some people think one way.
Ok, I got it. Thought I may have seen the pic before, and it isn't really all that bad I guess. We have brought four deer out of the hills before in one trip, result of many guys hunting for a few days. We usually have them all in game bags though...
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:33:27 AM
Here is your proof Plat....
22 deer
Bucks and Does
Now go take that to your tribe for their "so called proof they want to see."
Please double click on the picture title. You can then open it in Picture Viewer and enlarge it.
ICEMAN This one where did it come from no pics of a plate or people looks to miss lead.
Post by: Houndhunter on December 18, 2012, 08:34:36 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:38:13 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 08:39:53 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 08:42:31 AM
Bowtech comment: I was going to say, at least they all appear to be does. (some places have waaaay too many does)
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 18, 2012, 08:43:43 AM
Post by: _TONY_ on December 18, 2012, 08:44:32 AM
People on the rez are not ok with what is going on but we need facts.
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 08:49:59 AM
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...TONY. That's just crazy talk and we won't stand for it on this site.
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 09:02:43 AM
Or they could just go hunting with their buddies that are doing the killing....People on the rez are not ok with what is going on but we need facts.
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...
Post by: _TONY_ on December 18, 2012, 09:08:33 AM
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...TONY. That's just crazy talk and we won't stand for it on this site.
Noted :chuckle:
Ok if you guys just want to complain and advertise where to go hunt just continue what you are doing and nothing well be done just like before. Or you can tell yourself im going to try and help the issue.
Pretty sure it lands more in you and your tribal members hands, then ours... This issue is very simular to tribes gillnetting ESA listed fish in specific river systems... There's not much we can do to change things, it has to come from from the tribes/feds, themselves. All we're left doing is, in your own words, is "complain and advertise"
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
Post by: huntnfmly on December 18, 2012, 09:11:56 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 09:16:03 AM
So tired of hearing that b.s. they know exactly whats going on proof or not, they will not do a damn thing and you know it.
And you know this how? Obviously you must be in constant and even more contact than me with our Tribal Council to know that.
People on the rez are not ok with what is going on but we need facts.
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...
It's difficult to be at a location "hoping" to see something. The many times I hunt in the Ceded Areas I rarely see another native and that could be because I'm usually a couple of miles in on foot....The last 2 times I was in the Ceded Area I saw 2 different natives in 2 different locations and they were cruising the roads. When they stopped by to talk about "where's the elk" I calmly and kindly pointed up the hill and said that way.
So if I were to drive up there today I'd see similar events that have transpired? Again, I'm not denying that they didn't occur I just want to know if you know for sure similar events are occuring right now, today?
Or they could just go hunting with their buddies that are doing the killing....People on the rez are not ok with what is going on but we need facts.
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...
Really? Just because we're from the same Tribe we're buddies? I don't know them personally, nor did I grow up with them or go to the same school as them so what makes you think they're my buddies? If that's the case then tell your buddies to come pick up the deer they shot and left in the Wenas during the modern season.
Seems to me it would be pretty easy for them to gather facts just by simply taking a drive up there and seeing it for themselves...TONY. That's just crazy talk and we won't stand for it on this site.
Noted :chuckle:Ok if you guys just want to complain and advertise where to go hunt just continue what you are doing and nothing well be done just like before. Or you can tell yourself im going to try and help the issue.
Pretty sure it lands more in you and your tribal members hands, then ours... This issue is very simular to tribes gillnetting ESA listed fish in specific river systems... There's not much we can do to change things, it has to come from from the tribes/feds, themselves. All we're left doing is, in your own words, is "complain and advertise"
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.
I'm not denying the fact it lands on our doorstep. I've been trying to make a case but, I can't be in the entiat or the colockum to gather the credible intel needed and when I've asked for assistance all I get is what's occuring now. Blame game, name calling and we should miraculously know. I didn't know about Aaron's exploits in the Colockum and didn't even know or what the colockum is till I came here, I didn't know about phil and his exploits til I came here and you expect our Leaders to know?
All I've been asking for and there is quite a few that have sent me credible stuff that is backed with credible witnesses and that's helping not sitting here passing fake pics and name calling/bashing. Not sitting here saying we should know everything about everybody because they're our buddies. If it's occuring then testify to it, put it on paper and swear to what you saw, that's doing something. If all you're going to do is sit here and be a part of the problem then why should I continue to listen to you if you're not willing to take your account of events and make it official?
Those that have stepped forward I applaud you because you're helping make a difference and are looking for a solution, thank you. :tup:
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 18, 2012, 09:17:33 AM
LRW you and your attitude towards this situation is disgusting.I am tired of hearing the BS of funerals or name givings as the reason you kill so many animals. Once again you and anybody that thinks and do as you do are disgusting and a terrible representative of your peopleIf it's BS, post the proof. This is precisely what is needed in an attempt to stop this.
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 09:38:16 AM
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 18, 2012, 09:44:42 AM
. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunter
Hey Phil and Dustin,
Did your ancestors stop by Tony's market and get a half rack of Busch light on their way to Entiat or Colockum? Did they drive a 4wheel drive truck on state and federal hiways and maintained roads? Did they use a scoped rifle and assult weapons?
Old man Scroggie told me once that if the tribes want to claim that they can hunt when and where they want just because thats what their ancestors did, well then he should be allowed to shoot at em with a 30-30 cause thats what his ancestors did. Moral of the story: times change. Game laws change.... So should your over harvesting and wastage.
You don't have ANYTHING in common with your ancestors and you should not be allowed to do what YOU think that they used to do.
If a guy wanted to stop by and watch you enjoy some of that ethically harvested game, which place should he stop by?
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2012, 09:45:42 AM
Imagine if every deer I post a photo of on here I kill. I get within 30 yards on almost all of them. I could do it with my bow let alone a 30-06. Does that seem OK? Its not even fathonable to me.
I guess I love wildlife and nature too much.
Post by: bobcat on December 18, 2012, 09:46:35 AM
The Entiat herd cannot sustain this much harvest for much longer. So why can't the Yakama tribe simply end the season by at least November 30, and limit each person to one deer?
The excessively long hunting season with no limit on the number of deer killed is the problem. Also the tribe needs to step up it's enforcement in hunting areas outside the reservation.
You would think a place that gets hunted as much as the Entiat would have tribal enforcement there on a regular basis.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 09:47:31 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 18, 2012, 09:53:46 AM
. It's how it was then and it's how it is now... I hunter
Hey Phil and Dustin,
Did your ancestors stop by Tony's market and get a half rack of Busch light on their way to Entiat or Colockum? Did they drive a 4wheel drive truck on state and federal hiways and maintained roads? Did they use a scoped rifle and assult weapons?
Old man Scroggie told me once that if the tribes want to claim that they can hunt when and where they want just because thats what their ancestors did, well then he should be allowed to shoot at em with a 30-30 cause thats what his ancestors did. Moral of the story: times change. Game laws change.... So should your over harvesting and wastage.
You don't have ANYTHING in common with your ancestors and you should not be allowed to do what YOU think that they used to do.
If a guy wanted to stop by and watch you enjoy some of that ethically harvested game, which place should he stop by?
i would go to pic number 2. it has a way bigger garage. this is a joke, posting pics of peoples houses.
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 18, 2012, 10:01:07 AM
i would go to pic number 2. it has a way bigger garage. this is a joke, posting pics of peoples houses.
[/quote]
Why,... would you prefer their address? Its not a secret where they live. Half the people that live in the Wenatchee valley know.
I dont see why you think its a joke. I don't see anything funny about the entire situation. Our herds are being slaughtered and there is nothing we can do about it. This is strait from Officer Klump's mouth.
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 18, 2012, 10:04:35 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 10:08:26 AM
I'll place myself in the shoes of my Leaders and tell you guys a little story.
One day this young man walks into my office and tells me he's been hearing stories of enrolled members overharvesting deer and elk in certain areas of the Ceded Lands. I ask him how does he know this is true? His reply is "because these various non-tribal members are telling him that's what they heard and were told and they told me?" I ask him if he has any actual proof that these types of events are occuring? His answer is "no". Until I expend any financial resources and delegate a game warden (1 of 6 we have) to investigate these situations how do I know any of it is true? How do I know that what you're being told is a lie? How do I know what you're telling me is a lie? To me it sounds like rumors, rumors that originated by somebody that does not know or understand who we are. Could any of it be true? Maybe, maybe not, it could be somebodies attempt to make us as a Tribe look bad. If there is nothing to substantiate what you are claiming then why should I believe you or who ever is telling you this? I have not heard of any events and even if these types of events were taking place how do I know it wasn't you? He tells me, "I work weekdays when most of this occurs and I don't have the time or financial resources to be in these areas all time and again, this is what i've been told by non-tribal hunters." if you yourself hasn't seen it happen then why should I believe you if you yourself haven't seen any of it occur? If you haven't witnessed it yourself and you're unable to provide me or any of the other members sitting here then why should we even consider the request? Why should we believe you and what you're being told if you yourself haven't seen any of it happen? Unless something is brought before us that shows the events that you speak of then it's hearsay and rumors, I'm not going to waste any financial resources or expend any man power based on info. that is not credible and at the very least rumors.
End of story.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:12:11 AM
An I didnt know all natives drink, when more shiapos drink hunt an fish then natives do
Go ahead and stereotype us, when your people are the ones drinking and hunting lol
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 18, 2012, 10:14:07 AM
well im not a yakama so i dont know whats going on up there either. but to come on here and get heated and call out people for buying beer when they go hunting and try to stir the pot is pointless. the people on this forum know what happens in the woods and if they want changes they should take massive ammounts of pictures and flood the offices of people who might have some more pull or media power than flooding this forum with nonsense. :twocents:
Good luck with that! I hope it works out ok. This picture of Phil's slaughter didn't help Klump one bit. He didn't even want any of the pictures I took. Maybe you can take better pics?
By the way, I was pointing out the fact that they stopped by a quicky mart, unlike their ancestors. You are right. You dont know whats going on up here. If you did, you would be discusted. Maybe even a little upset. ... But good luck with your picture taking.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:17:21 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 10:18:57 AM
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded!
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 18, 2012, 10:25:18 AM
Any pictures from this year idahoelkhunter??
Nope! I quit tryin to help out. Whats the point? Good luck to you and the rest of the tribe. Maybe there will be somethin left for your kids and grandkids to hunt?
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 18, 2012, 10:26:47 AM
well im not a yakama so i dont know whats going on up there either. but to come on here and get heated and call out people for buying beer when they go hunting and try to stir the pot is pointless. the people on this forum know what happens in the woods and if they want changes they should take massive ammounts of pictures and flood the offices of people who might have some more pull or media power than flooding this forum with nonsense. :twocents:
Good luck with that! I hope it works out ok. This picture of Phil's slaughter didn't help Klump one bit. He didn't even want any of the pictures I took. Maybe you can take better pics?
.
By the way, I was pointing out the fact that they stopped by a quicky mart, unlike their ancestors. You are right. You dont know whats going on up here. If you did, you would be discusted. Maybe even a little upset. ... But good luck with your picture taking.
i dont need to take pics im Umatilla so all this does not pertain to me. i was thinking maybe it would be better for you guys to take a different approach
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 10:27:37 AM
All I can say about the picture I posted is this.....
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Comprehend before you start making assumptions. I didn't say it's not proof I asked for the facts, go back and read what I posted more slowly. Besides I wasn't the only one asking the very same questions, I believe somebody above me asked the same question and they aren't a tribal member are you going to jump on them as well? I asked for the facts of the picture. Is the person that took the picture willing to verify where and when they took it? Are they willing to verify and identify who they say driving the vehicle? If not, then how do I know that was taken where you said it was? It could've been taken anywhere with snow, a store and christmas decorations in the background and last time I checked a photo doesn't have to be dated to show the time of the year, it could've been taken 5 years ago during a snowy christmans day, are you getting where I'm going with this or do I have to slow down some???Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? I don't know the answer to that but, something obviously if you shared them? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. Again, assumptions our Leaders know what's going on with everybody. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. We do? And you know this how? This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded! Duly noted.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 10:29:40 AM
I agree with you Bone. I to love the resource, I to have been within yards of animals and not harvested them, I to would like to see something done. I don't have the nice cameras you have but, I still enjoy taking pics of animals that I have snuck up on and not harvested.
I'll place myself in the shoes of my Leaders and tell you guys a little story.
One day this young man walks into my office and tells me he's been hearing stories of enrolled members overharvesting deer and elk in certain areas of the Ceded Lands. I ask him how does he know this is true? His reply is "because these various non-tribal members are telling him that's what they heard and were told and they told me?" I ask him if he has any actual proof that these types of events are occuring? His answer is "no". Until I expend any financial resources and delegate a game warden (1 of 6 we have) to investigate these situations how do I know any of it is true? How do I know that what you're being told is a lie? How do I know what you're telling me is a lie? To me it sounds like rumors, rumors that originated by somebody that does not know or understand who we are. Could any of it be true? Maybe, maybe not, it could be somebodies attempt to make us as a Tribe look bad. If there is nothing to substantiate what you are claiming then why should I believe you or who ever is telling you this? I have not heard of any events and even if these types of events were taking place how do I know it wasn't you? He tells me, "I work weekdays when most of this occurs and I don't have the time or financial resources to be in these areas all time and again, this is what i've been told by non-tribal hunters." if you yourself hasn't seen it happen then why should I believe you if you yourself haven't seen any of it occur? If you haven't witnessed it yourself and you're unable to provide me or any of the other members sitting here then why should we even consider the request? Why should we believe you and what you're being told if you yourself haven't seen any of it happen? Unless something is brought before us that shows the events that you speak of then it's hearsay and rumors, I'm not going to waste any financial resources or expend any man power based on info. that is not credible and at the very least rumors.
End of story.
Again, point proven. You make excuses. You don't want to spend money to investigate a potential problem. In the meantime you may be spending double the money or more to fix the problem; if it turns out true. These are all just BS excuses to turn a blind eye to what is happening. Your a fence rider. You say tell the forum what they want to hear, yet you tell the natives what they want to hear.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:30:21 AM
As far as I know plateaundn has asked for photos an info an no one has stepped up to give him some hard core evidence yet an he has asked several times, be a part of the solution instead of partof it with all the whiners on here I figured someone wouldve helped him out by nowAny pictures from this year idahoelkhunter??
Nope! I quit tryin to help out. Whats the point? Good luck to you and the rest of the tribe. Maybe there will be somethin left for your kids and grandkids to hunt?
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 10:31:45 AM
All I can say about the picture I posted is this.....
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Comprehend before you start making assumptions. I didn't say it's not proof I asked for the facts, go back and read what I posted more slowly. Besides I wasn't the only one asking the very same questions, I believe somebody above me asked the same question and they aren't a tribal member are you going to jump on them as well? I asked for the facts of the picture. Is the person that took the picture willing to verify where and when they took it? Are they willing to verify and identify who they say driving the vehicle? If not, then how do I know that was taken where you said it was? It could've been taken anywhere with snow, a store and christmas decorations in the background and last time I checked a photo doesn't have to be dated to show the time of the year, it could've been taken 5 years ago during a snowy christmans day, are you getting where I'm going with this or do I have to slow down some???Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? I don't know the answer to that but, something obviously if you shared them? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. Again, assumptions our Leaders know what's going on with everybody. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. We do? And you know this how? This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded! Duly noted.
Plat,
I don't read past the first 3 sentences of your posts. You too long winded. Type short concise sentences and maybe...maybe I will give you my time. If not, don't waste your own time as I won't read your novels.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:33:06 AM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 18, 2012, 10:38:03 AM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 10:41:07 AM
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 18, 2012, 10:41:59 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 10:42:32 AM
All I can say about the picture I posted is this.....
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Comprehend before you start making assumptions. I didn't say it's not proof I asked for the facts, go back and read what I posted more slowly. Besides I wasn't the only one asking the very same questions, I believe somebody above me asked the same question and they aren't a tribal member are you going to jump on them as well? I asked for the facts of the picture. Is the person that took the picture willing to verify where and when they took it? Are they willing to verify and identify who they say driving the vehicle? If not, then how do I know that was taken where you said it was? It could've been taken anywhere with snow, a store and christmas decorations in the background and last time I checked a photo doesn't have to be dated to show the time of the year, it could've been taken 5 years ago during a snowy christmans day, are you getting where I'm going with this or do I have to slow down some???Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? I don't know the answer to that but, something obviously if you shared them? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. Again, assumptions our Leaders know what's going on with everybody. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. We do? And you know this how? This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded! Duly noted.
Plat,
I don't read past the first 3 sentences of your posts. You too long winded. Type short concise sentences and maybe...maybe I will give you my time. If not, don't waste your own time as I won't read your novels.
If you can't take the time to read then why should I take the time to listen? You expect me to do something and what do you offer in return? An excuse yourself. You can call me what you want but, the one making the excuses here is you. Your excuse is you can't and won't read further then 3 lines but, you expect me to sit here and read your stories and believe them? If you don't take the time nor care to how do you expect me to believe you?
I tell it like I see it, if I don't like something I'll do something about it. I don't need to jump on a wagon because every else is, I don't need to wait for somebody else to say something before I say anything as some of you do. I say exactly how I feel whether it's popular or not.
Like I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.
I will get bashed by most but why not start a" friends of the entiat club", have respectful representation and ask for a meeting with the tribe and wdfw with this proof, and have reasonable solutions! like making winter grounds inaccessible by vehicle? or maybe asking the tribe to make those wintering grounds senior citizen hunting only?
Thank you and here's a fine example of somebody trying to find solutions.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:49:02 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 10:55:57 AM
All I can say about the picture I posted is this.....
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Comprehend before you start making assumptions. I didn't say it's not proof I asked for the facts, go back and read what I posted more slowly. Besides I wasn't the only one asking the very same questions, I believe somebody above me asked the same question and they aren't a tribal member are you going to jump on them as well? I asked for the facts of the picture. Is the person that took the picture willing to verify where and when they took it? Are they willing to verify and identify who they say driving the vehicle? If not, then how do I know that was taken where you said it was? It could've been taken anywhere with snow, a store and christmas decorations in the background and last time I checked a photo doesn't have to be dated to show the time of the year, it could've been taken 5 years ago during a snowy christmans day, are you getting where I'm going with this or do I have to slow down some???Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? I don't know the answer to that but, something obviously if you shared them? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. Again, assumptions our Leaders know what's going on with everybody. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. We do? And you know this how? This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded! Duly noted.
Plat,
I don't read past the first 3 sentences of your posts. You too long winded. Type short concise sentences and maybe...maybe I will give you my time. If not, don't waste your own time as I won't read your novels.
Come on, man. You want to end this nonsense by you won't read a couple paragraphs?
Post by: bobcat on December 18, 2012, 11:09:05 AM
Quote
Like I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.
Like I said a couple pages back, why is proof needed? Everyone knows deer are being taken out of the Entiat in un-sustainable numbers. Why can't the tribe limit harvest in some way? How about putting an end to deer hunting when the deer are on the winter range? How about a limit of one deer per person?
Post by: Harborhunter on December 18, 2012, 11:09:58 AM
I will get bashed by most but why not start a" friends of the entiat club", have respectful representation and ask for a meeting with the tribe and wdfw with this proof, and have reasonable solutions! like making winter grounds inaccessible by vehicle? or maybe asking the tribe to make those wintering grounds senior citizen hunting only?
Nobody should bash you for this idea. This is what it is going to take and I think it is a great idea. There needs to be cooperation between the WDFW, Tribe and sportsmen in able to eliminate what is happening up there. A meeting would be great. Concrete evidence needs to be brought forth and all groups need to respectfully collaborate in order to solve this problem. This is about the DEER, not user groups. There has been a lot of childish *censored* posted in these 18 pages so far, which does not help anyone's stance. I know people have tried to present evidence, make calls and what not. Great, thank you, that is the right thing to do. We can't stop though. If I lived closer, I would love to get involved and help. I will help however I can from out here on the coast. I think cougarbart brings up a good point though. It may not be easy to do, but if enough people get involved, i don't see why all parties would not want to meet and discuss the current situation on the Entiat winter range. It is about THE DEER.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 18, 2012, 11:14:31 AM
All I can say about the picture I posted is this.....
I have family and friends that live in the Entiat area. They are well aware of what goes on up there. They seen the truck in town, so they took several cell phone pics. This was last Tuesday. Knowing I am a hunter and like to see deer, elk, etc. they sent them over too me a few days ago. Thou I am a newer member to this site, I have followed it since 2007. Knowing how the forum is; I debated on whether or not I should even post it. I figured that I could post 1 picture or 20 pictures, and what would it matter. The natives on here are going to say it is BS, photo shopped, etc. Even if I had a video, the natives would say he is not part of the Yakima tribe. Go blame the Mucks, etc. Bottom line....everyone including the natives knows what is going on up there. Deer getting slaughtered by the truck load. I could post more pics, but why? The forum will just shoot them down etc. That is why it took me 5 years to finally join this site. Everyone on here seems to know everything about everything.
Plat,
You may disagree with your tribal members actions, yet you seem to always fall back to the native position and make excuses for them. Example- I post a picture and you say...."that's not proof!" I expected you to say that! Comprehend before you start making assumptions. I didn't say it's not proof I asked for the facts, go back and read what I posted more slowly. Besides I wasn't the only one asking the very same questions, I believe somebody above me asked the same question and they aren't a tribal member are you going to jump on them as well? I asked for the facts of the picture. Is the person that took the picture willing to verify where and when they took it? Are they willing to verify and identify who they say driving the vehicle? If not, then how do I know that was taken where you said it was? It could've been taken anywhere with snow, a store and christmas decorations in the background and last time I checked a photo doesn't have to be dated to show the time of the year, it could've been taken 5 years ago during a snowy christmans day, are you getting where I'm going with this or do I have to slow down some???Explain to me the snow on the ground, ACE hardware store, Xmas decorations up in the background, the cross street sign, etc. What do I have to gain by posting this 1 picture? I don't know the answer to that but, something obviously if you shared them? Like the game department is going to do something about it. And we all know the tribe won't. The game department and the tribe know who is doing it. Again, assumptions our Leaders know what's going on with everybody. They have plenty of their own pictures and documentation. We do? And you know this how? This is a federal issue, which is way bigger then Wa state. So go ahead and reply with your long winded rants. Nobody cares because you ride the fence and make excuses and get dogminded! Duly noted.
Plat,
I don't read past the first 3 sentences of your posts. You too long winded. Type short concise sentences and maybe...maybe I will give you my time. If not, don't waste your own time as I won't read your novels.
If you can't take the time to read then why should I take the time to listen? You expect me to do something and what do you offer in return? An excuse yourself. You can call me what you want but, the one making the excuses here is you. Your excuse is you can't and won't read further then 3 lines but, you expect me to sit here and read your stories and believe them? If you don't take the time nor care to how do you expect me to believe you?
I tell it like I see it, if I don't like something I'll do something about it. I don't need to jump on a wagon because every else is, I don't need to wait for somebody else to say something before I say anything as some of you do. I say exactly how I feel whether it's popular or not.
Like I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.I will get bashed by most but why not start a" friends of the entiat club", have respectful representation and ask for a meeting with the tribe and wdfw with this proof, and have reasonable solutions! like making winter grounds inaccessible by vehicle? or maybe asking the tribe to make those wintering grounds senior citizen hunting only?
Thank you and here's a fine example of somebody trying to find solutions.
I don't expect you or anybody to read my post or beleive my pictures. Like I said...I figured YOU SPECIFICALLY and the other natives would call BS. I have 11 more pictures I could post, but why? So you can pick them apart and make excuses. I am done wasting my time in this topic and on this site. I won't be very active any longer. Ban or delete me; I don't care. Go kill off all the deer and elk and make your ancestors proud!
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 18, 2012, 11:17:43 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2012, 11:19:52 AM
I had my truck videod last year and even had a sting operation sort of on me while out photographing. I appreciated the fact someone was taking the trouble to do something.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2012, 11:27:53 AM
Ok skywalker :chuckle:
I know really....
Quote
I won't be very active any longer. Ban or delete me; I don't care.
If you have something to say, SAY IT. Don't act like the kid in the playground that takes his ball and goes and stands in the corner and "plays with himself".
If its important to you, stand up for it.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 18, 2012, 11:30:15 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:32:01 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 11:34:13 AM
Skywalker, I am not sure you are listening. Plat has to take something to a bunch of folks sitting there with nothing to lose, nothing gain but are listening to him. He shows them a pic with deer in a truck. It could have been taken anywhere, anytime and in what context. Just like Yak Ind pointed out. . They look at him like he is an idiot. He is doing us a favor. Help him tell his story. It is in no offense to you or friends for the pic. I honestly don't think he is making excuses. He is drawing a pictire of what he is up against and quite frankly its pretty logical. If you have photos then post them. They aren't being picked apart.
I had my truck videod last year and even had a sting operation sort of on me while out photographing. I appreciated the fact someone was taking the trouble to do something.
Thanks Bone for understanding what I've been saying. Anything is better than nothing.
QuoteLike I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.
Like I said a couple pages back, why is proof needed? Everyone knows deer are being taken out of the Entiat in un-sustainable numbers. Why can't the tribe limit harvest in some way? How about putting an end to deer hunting when the deer are on the winter range? How about a limit of one deer per person?
Obviously, you thought my little story was a joke or unreal. That was my re-enactment of the first time I tried to do something awhile ago.
I would like plat to answer bobcats question that he has asked twice now.
I have answered numerous times throughout the last year and a half and I just answered it again and again and again. If Bone got it then hopefully somebody else will.
Post by: bobcat on December 18, 2012, 11:37:06 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:39:12 AM
He wasn't talking about the poachers persè but about changing your management and regulations. What do you need proof of to do that?Skywalker, I am not sure you are listening. Plat has to take something to a bunch of folks sitting there with nothing to lose, nothing gain but are listening to him. He shows them a pic with deer in a truck. It could have been taken anywhere, anytime and in what context. Just like Yak Ind pointed out. . They look at him like he is an idiot. He is doing us a favor. Help him tell his story. It is in no offense to you or friends for the pic. I honestly don't think he is making excuses. He is drawing a pictire of what he is up against and quite frankly its pretty logical. If you have photos then post them. They aren't being picked apart.
I had my truck videod last year and even had a sting operation sort of on me while out photographing. I appreciated the fact someone was taking the trouble to do something.
Thanks Bone for understanding what I've been saying. Anything is better than nothing.QuoteLike I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.
Like I said a couple pages back, why is proof needed? Everyone knows deer are being taken out of the Entiat in un-sustainable numbers. Why can't the tribe limit harvest in some way? How about putting an end to deer hunting when the deer are on the winter range? How about a limit of one deer per person?
Obviously, you thought my little story was a joke or unreal. That was my re-enactment of the first time I tried to do something awhile ago.I would like plat to answer bobcats question that he has asked twice now.
I have answered numerous times throughout the last year and a half and I just answered it again and again and again. If Bone got it then hopefully somebody else will.
Post by: boneaddict on December 18, 2012, 11:43:05 AM
Well it sounds like gates on all the roads is tho only answer.
That would stop it now, no politics between parties. Snow might slow it down but with sleds and wheelers with tracks.......
No motorized access, done deal. Anyone breaks that law then prosecution can occur. I'll buy the first gate or first sign
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:45:08 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 11:47:14 AM
[/quote]
I'll buy the first gate or first sign
[/quote]
NWHunter beat you to the punch on that one.
Post by: Seabeckian on December 18, 2012, 11:47:49 AM
Does the tribe do any sort of enviromental impact studies on wildlife and their numbers? Maybe a dumb question, but one would think that if THEIR people are hunting and it's part of THEIR heritage, that they may want to figure out a way to sustain it. Or does that whole aspect of it rely on WDFW?
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 11:49:58 AM
He wasn't talking about the poachers persè but about changing your management and regulations. What do you need proof of to do that?Skywalker, I am not sure you are listening. Plat has to take something to a bunch of folks sitting there with nothing to lose, nothing gain but are listening to him. He shows them a pic with deer in a truck. It could have been taken anywhere, anytime and in what context. Just like Yak Ind pointed out. . They look at him like he is an idiot. He is doing us a favor. Help him tell his story. It is in no offense to you or friends for the pic. I honestly don't think he is making excuses. He is drawing a pictire of what he is up against and quite frankly its pretty logical. If you have photos then post them. They aren't being picked apart.
I had my truck videod last year and even had a sting operation sort of on me while out photographing. I appreciated the fact someone was taking the trouble to do something.
Thanks Bone for understanding what I've been saying. Anything is better than nothing.QuoteLike I said before thank you to those that have provided credible proof.
Like I said a couple pages back, why is proof needed? Everyone knows deer are being taken out of the Entiat in un-sustainable numbers. Why can't the tribe limit harvest in some way? How about putting an end to deer hunting when the deer are on the winter range? How about a limit of one deer per person?
Obviously, you thought my little story was a joke or unreal. That was my re-enactment of the first time I tried to do something awhile ago.I would like plat to answer bobcats question that he has asked twice now.
I have answered numerous times throughout the last year and a half and I just answered it again and again and again. If Bone got it then hopefully somebody else will.
Yes, he was. This is the root of the problem, if we can't address this issue first then none of the rest will even occur. I stated yesterday the process that would have to occur IF our Tribal Leaders were to be convinced with credible proof, the steps they would have to take. Again, they can make decisions but, with the impact this would have they wouldn't make it lightly and they wouldn't make it without having an overwhelmingly amount of credible proof. Because they would still have to take it before the General Assembly. If you can't provide credible proof to the Leaders then forget it, you're not going to win over any support from the General Assembly. It has to start somewhere and if it can't start with finding credible proof then what's the point?
:yeah: I will pay for the second.
Does the tribe do any sort of enviromental impact studies on wildlife and their numbers? Maybe a dumb question, but one would think that if THEIR people are hunting and it's part of THEIR heritage, that they may want to figure out a way to sustain it. Or does that whole aspect of it rely on WDFW?
Yes, we have done those types of studies and some species are done quite regularly. Again, without credible documentation it's hard to convince and win over support for what's occuring.
Post by: Seabeckian on December 18, 2012, 12:00:13 PM
:yeah: I will pay for the second.
Does the tribe do any sort of enviromental impact studies on wildlife and their numbers? Maybe a dumb question, but one would think that if THEIR people are hunting and it's part of THEIR heritage, that they may want to figure out a way to sustain it. Or does that whole aspect of it rely on WDFW?
Yes, we have done those types of studies and some species are done quite regularly. Again, without credible documentation it's hard to convince and win over support for what's occuring.
[/quote]
Good, I'm glad to hear it. I completely understand your point about creditable proof. Do you have a number/email you would like to provide us all so we have a direct known avenue if/when we see this misuse of our natural resources happening? Whoever you think is best to contact with the authority to make immediate actions happen...?
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 02:59:32 PM
In reading this thread I am bit concerned with the administrators letting racist and inappropriate comments remain while editing others. Any reference to drinking before posting or not working etc. is shameful and has no place on a respectful forum. Disagreeing with someone should not be carte blanche for disparaging comments about a entire race.
I think that any reasonable person sees that unlimited harvesting from any area is wrong. Period. The tribe needs to wake up and regulate individuals that have lost their way in applying a treaty for abusive sport hunting. Native posters, need to step back and really ask themselves if this practice is good for tribal members or the the game. Just because something is legal does not make it right.I work for everything I got nothing Is handed to me, I pay taxes just like you do.Wonder why bobcat edited this, we can't speak the truth or control what we say, while your people can flat out threaten us huh times haven't changed one bit :rolleyes:
Profanity is against the rules- that's why.
I would do the same regardless of who made the post.
wow a non Indian can see it to.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 18, 2012, 03:01:39 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 03:07:39 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 03:12:14 PM
i know very little about what happens over there but have dealt with tribal, state, and local governments! The opionion you have about ethical or not will be no help, washington says running hounds on cougar and bear is unethical and idaho says its ethical so you saying shooting 15 deer between 3 guys is wrong is a matter of opionion(which i believe is unethical also) but the the issue will be overall numbers of the species? study needs to show how many are killed by predators, tribal hunting and non member hunting! And then a logical solution can try to be resolved, My bet is predators still take more than tribal hunting! Bring back hound hunting!lol
I can hound hunt WA.
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 18, 2012, 03:14:07 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 03:15:52 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 03:21:41 PM
i know very little about what happens over there but have dealt with tribal, state, and local governments! The opionion you have about ethical or not will be no help, washington says running hounds on cougar and bear is unethical and idaho says its ethical so you saying shooting 15 deer between 3 guys is wrong is a matter of opionion(which i believe is unethical also) but the the issue will be overall numbers of the species? study needs to show how many are killed by predators, tribal hunting and non member hunting! And then a logical solution can try to be resolved, My bet is predators still take more than tribal hunting! Bring back hound hunting!lolOh brother :DOH:
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 03:25:50 PM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 03:28:09 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 03:32:22 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 03:36:13 PM
what huntinfool? do you have a problem with what i said?I agree with you that we could use hounds again, that would do wonders for the herds but it really has nothing to do with this thread or issue.
i know very little about what happens over there but have dealt with tribal, state, and local governments! so you saying shooting 15 deer between 3 guys is wrong is a matter of opionion(which i believe is unethical also) but the the issue will be overall numbers of the species? study needs to show how many are killed by predators, tribal hunting and non member hunting! And then a logical solution can try to be resolved, My bet is predators still take more than tribal hunting! Bring back hound hunting!lolOne of the many points you are missing is predators don't go out specifically targetting the largest antlered bucks while they are in their wintering grounds, big difference.
Another point is with only bucks being targetted the only "logical solution" left for WDFW would be to reduce the number of tags issued for that area, meanwhile the offenders continue to wipe it out.
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 03:40:36 PM
I wanna go hound huntin with you yakI've noticed that while some of us would actually like to come up with a solution to this problem and are trying to discuss it rationally, you have yet to contribute anything positive to the discussion. Are you interested in a solution or are you simply hear to stir the pot and irritate people?
If its the latter then I would appreciate you going away and leaving the discussion to those working to come up with a answer. :dunno:
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 18, 2012, 03:43:36 PM
I wanna go hound huntin with you yakI've noticed that while some of us would actually like to come up with a solution to this problem and are trying to discuss it rationally, you have yet to contribute anything positive to the discussion. Are you interested in a solution or are you simply hear to stir the pot and irritate people?
If its the latter then I would appreciate you going away and leaving the discussion to those working to come up with a answer. :dunno:
I can take the blame for that people get to me some times and I get off track. You are rite I should not play with people like that.
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 03:55:16 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
An you know they do as well "pukes"
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 04:04:46 PM
Why can't I help stir the pot when others do too :dunno:Why not man up rather than stooping to their level?
An you know they do as well "pukes"
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 04:05:13 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 04:22:15 PM
Is that good nuff for you phool :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 04:25:39 PM
It matters to me cougar but I dont go up there but I also would like to see a something good come of it for both sides of the matter :tup::tup:
Is that good nuff for you phool :dunno:
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 04:27:31 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 18, 2012, 04:28:23 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 04:34:52 PM
If this Entiat affair happens year after year after year, seems clear to me that there is plenty of game for tribe and non tribe. Maybe I'm wrong.
Post by: wilsongideon on December 18, 2012, 05:06:51 PM
I've got a serious question.....what ever happened to theoretical proof? If something seems wrong then why does there have to be proof. It seems obvious that in todays age there shouldn't be unlimited catch limits, unlimited harvest limits etc. What if I were an enrolled member and I decided I should harvest every single buck I see instead of photographing them. What if even my limit was 20. I could bust one, give it to someone I don't know, go bust another give it to my uncle , go bust another put that one in the fridge, bust another and celebrate the winter solstice, bust another for the family down the street.......on and on. Its surprising to me that the concept of going on the winter range and killing as many big bucks as I can find in any given area isn't a red flag.
Imagine if every deer I post a photo of on here I kill. I get within 30 yards on almost all of them. I could do it with my bow let alone a 30-06. Does that seem OK? Its not even fathonable to me.
I guess I love wildlife and nature too much.
I'd wager that guys waiting untill december to "help" the needy arent willing to work half as hard to kill animals. Im willing to help/join any talks on shutting down the unit to motorized vehicles december 1st or as early as november 15th thats my :twocents: I agree that this would effectivly curb most poaching/native slaughtering that goes on.
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 05:26:46 PM
How bout instead of all this passion and outcry for DEER, why not try to help PEOPLE? People are hungry, cold, having hard times. Some of you put critters over man. Ain't no animal critter more important than a human to me.
If this Entiat affair happens year after year after year, seems clear to me that there is plenty of game for tribe and non tribe. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yes, you are wrong....
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 05:27:15 PM
I've got a serious question.....what ever happened to theoretical proof? If something seems wrong then why does there have to be proof. It seems obvious that in todays age there shouldn't be unlimited catch limits, unlimited harvest limits etc. What if I were an enrolled member and I decided I should harvest every single buck I see instead of photographing them. What if even my limit was 20. I could bust one, give it to someone I don't know, go bust another give it to my uncle , go bust another put that one in the fridge, bust another and celebrate the winter solstice, bust another for the family down the street.......on and on. Its surprising to me that the concept of going on the winter range and killing as many big bucks as I can find in any given area isn't a red flag.
Imagine if every deer I post a photo of on here I kill. I get within 30 yards on almost all of them. I could do it with my bow let alone a 30-06. Does that seem OK? Its not even fathonable to me.
I guess I love wildlife and nature too much.
I'd wager that guys waiting untill december to "help" the needy arent willing to work half as hard to kill animals. Im willing to help/join any talks on shutting down the unit to motorized vehicles december 1st or as early as november 15th thats my :twocents: I agree that this would effectivly curb most poaching/native slaughtering that goes on.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: Jonathan_S on December 18, 2012, 05:36:22 PM
How bout instead of all this passion and outcry for DEER, why not try to help PEOPLE? People are hungry, cold, having hard times. Some of you put critters over man. Ain't no animal critter more important than a human to me.
If this Entiat affair happens year after year after year, seems clear to me that there is plenty of game for tribe and non tribe. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yes, you are wrong....
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Seems to be a good deal of people commenting who don't understand and haven't witnessed the slaughter. This poor area is so ravaged by poaching. It's unsustainable.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 18, 2012, 05:40:31 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on December 18, 2012, 05:52:48 PM
How bout instead of all this passion and outcry for DEER, why not try to help PEOPLE? People are hungry, cold, having hard times. Some of you put critters over man. Ain't no animal critter more important than a human to me.
If this Entiat affair happens year after year after year, seems clear to me that there is plenty of game for tribe and non tribe. Maybe I'm wrong.
Yeah i would say that you couldnt be more wrong. Maybe you have watched too many survival videos or something. The ones doing the slaughtering are doing so in vehicles. They have the money to own and operate a vehicle and guns but not enough to feed themselves and stay warm, YEAH RIGHT. I think its fine to look for the good in most things but there is a difference in looking for the good and just overlooking the obvious. There is a problem and guys on here know exactly what they are talking about, so listen up and recognize there is a problem and quit standing up for those that dont deserve it.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 18, 2012, 06:31:13 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 06:35:02 PM
Well the only way things are going to change is if people contact the WDFW and get the ball rolling. Talking without action does nothing. This might have a bearing on future Entiat permits which most people aren't willing to sacrafice.The ball is rolling, we'll have to see how far it goes. http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,112872.msg1479695.html#msg1479695 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,112872.msg1479695.html#msg1479695)
Post by: DBLDWN on December 18, 2012, 06:38:51 PM
Well the only way things are going to change is if people contact the WDFW and get the ball rolling. Talking without action does nothing. This might have a bearing on future Entiat permits which most people aren't willing to sacrafice.WDFW has been contacted several times, and their hands are tied as much as ours. Your exactly right about having a bearing on future permits. Going to be intersting when the bios fly the winter range and the buck to doe ratio is below status quoe, and the reprocutions fall back on the sportsman.
Post by: _TONY_ on December 18, 2012, 06:42:33 PM
Not 100% relevant but this might remind us to keep an open mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8QiLqPhjY&feature=player_embedded (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir8QiLqPhjY&feature=player_embedded)
I've seen this first hand while sockeye fishing out of my sled at the mouth of the Okanogan... Pretty cool sight to see tribes actually using selective harvest methods...
Post by: fishunt247 on December 18, 2012, 07:05:49 PM
What do we need to do, as a group of concerned citizens or as individuals, to get the ball rolling more than just on the pages of a forum? Who do we need to contact and with what information/proposal? WDFW? The Yakama Nation? Mule Deer Foundation? News media across the state? Other wildlife organizations?
As an English teacher, I'd gladly offer my services to help revise/edit a blanket letter that HuntWA could send as a group with signatures attached, or that each of us can send to the parties it needs sent to. I don't have the means to donate money to a cause, but I can give my time.
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 18, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
Phil and his crew are gonna meet up with the wrong guy some day and ? Who knows? Dont worry, It wont be me. I'm done with tryin to stop the slaughter. I just hunt out of state instead.
You all really don't understand how many animals these guys are shooting. It would blow your mind!
Good luck on those gates! Hope they help. :tup:
Post by: Simcoe hunter on December 18, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
I think that is a good idea. I would like to see it go to the state. You could send it to the tribe, but I wouldn't expect a response. They like to thumb their nose at whitey. I think off the Rez tribal members should have to abide by the same laws we do. They are off the Rez after all. When you're done let me know where to sign.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 07:32:20 PM
Some one told me to "listen up". Well, I have read all the post, and all I'm listening to is whining. I can sympthesize with both user groups. The truth prolly lies somewhere between. I did see one letter posted from some mule deer ass'n. Good for those folks. I can hardly see how whining and tossing around perjoritives and open racism helps those deer. If folks spent as much time doing what every one says "we should do", maybe you'd get more done. I won't take a side. All I know is, the last time I was really active on this site, 4 years ago, it was the same old song and dance.
Post by: jackelope on December 18, 2012, 07:40:28 PM
I posted a legitimate question about getting the ball rolling on the "Lock the Gates" thread, but since nobody has answered it there, I'll ask here.
What do we need to do, as a group of concerned citizens or as individuals, to get the ball rolling more than just on the pages of a forum? Who do we need to contact and with what information/proposal? WDFW? The Yakama Nation? Mule Deer Foundation? News media across the state? Other wildlife organizations?
As an English teacher, I'd gladly offer my services to help revise/edit a blanket letter that HuntWA could send as a group with signatures attached, or that each of us can send to the parties it needs sent to. I don't have the means to donate money to a cause, but I can give my time.
MDF is out of the loop.
We are aware of the situation that is happening in central Washington. Unfortunately there is nothing that we are able to do. This lies with the Federal Government and they will dictate what will happen. We understand the concern of the hunters in Washington and wish we could do more.
Thank you for reaching out to us and expressing your concern. Please continue to "fight the good fight" and talk to your local officials and representatives, to see if there is anything more you can do. We hope that you will always retain your love for mule deer and conservation. We need people like you out there.
Please keep us posted if anything new comes up.
Post by: eastsidewa on December 18, 2012, 08:21:11 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 08:27:31 PM
I posted a legitimate question about getting the ball rolling on the "Lock the Gates" thread, but since nobody has answered it there, I'll ask here.Its been answered a couple times, have you been reading the posts? I know I answered a couple times myself, post #311 for example.
Post by: jstone on December 18, 2012, 08:45:58 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 09:10:42 PM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 18, 2012, 09:25:27 PM
just a question for lil red and time and any other native Americans following this post.. how much does any one family need to sustain for the winter? i have a family of five and we are hard pressed to eat an elk and deer if I'm lucky enough to harvest both in one season. and why not share harvest info with wdfw to sustain herds for future of all. why not have a season set for your user group. and limit your late season harvest while deer are breeding and wintering. trying not to bash anyone just questions.i teach my kids its not a right to hunt, but a privilege... maybe i can get a legit answer, maybe not!
Family of 3. 1 deer and 1 elk typically. That would include giving a pack or two away to extended family from time to time as well as using some for larger gatherings. Our bag limits are on a per househeld basis which causes challenges at times as they may be innadequate or liberal depending on the household. keep in mind the typical indian household is often much more complex than the majority society as it may be comprised of aunts, uncles, grand parents, adopted kids, homeless kids or extended familiy, etc... On average our per household allowable tags are probably less than what can legally be obtained through the state and although our season is typically 6 months long, you'll only find us hunting off Rez for about 3 of those months because we try to avoid the massacre that takes place from September through mid December.
We do all of the above you mentioned. Although not all follow it, the fundamental principal of our regulations are "take only what u need to survive physically and spiritually" We also have a regulated designated hunter program that I participate in at times. This program gets abused by some, but we're working on cleaning it up.
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 09:29:02 PM
"take only what u need to survive physically and spiritually"And thats really all thats being asked of the Yakima's.
This program gets abused by some, but we're working on cleaning it up.
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 09:43:00 PM
Post by: sled on December 18, 2012, 09:49:58 PM
you don't think that non natives have extended families? What proof do you have of (trying to clean it up)? Other people buy meat after they eat their 1 deer or elk they harvest if they are lucky enough to get one. Maybe natives should think about trying that.just a question for lil red and time and any other native Americans following this post.. how much does any one family need to sustain for the winter? i have a family of five and we are hard pressed to eat an elk and deer if I'm lucky enough to harvest both in one season. and why not share harvest info with wdfw to sustain herds for future of all. why not have a season set for your user group. and limit your late season harvest while deer are breeding and wintering. trying not to bash anyone just questions.i teach my kids its not a right to hunt, but a privilege... maybe i can get a legit answer, maybe not!
Family of 3. 1 deer and 1 elk typically. That would include giving a pack or two away to extended family from time to time as well as using some for larger gatherings. Our bag limits are on a per househeld basis which causes challenges at times as they may be innadequate or liberal depending on the household. keep in mind the typical indian household is often much more complex than the majority society as it may be comprised of aunts, uncles, grand parents, adopted kids, homeless kids or extended familiy, etc... On average our per household allowable tags are probably less than what can legally be obtained through the state and although our season is typically 6 months long, you'll only find us hunting off Rez for about 3 of those months because we try to avoid the massacre that takes place from September through mid December.
We do all of the above you mentioned. Although not all follow it, the fundamental principal of our regulations are "take only what u need to survive physically and spiritually" We also have a regulated designated hunter program that I participate in at times. This program gets abused by some, but we're working on cleaning it up.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 18, 2012, 09:56:03 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 10:07:37 PM
Post by: sled on December 18, 2012, 10:16:56 PM
sled take the emotion out of it! There are many including me and maybe you that if we had the opportunity to not have to buy store bought meat we wouldn't! but because of our status we do, are you really that upset to have to buy meat?no. IM sick of hearing excuses for the abuse of the resources. Sorry about the emotion. :tup:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 18, 2012, 10:22:39 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:32:04 PM
:yeah:sled take the emotion out of it! There are many including me and maybe you that if we had the opportunity to not have to buy store bought meat we wouldn't! but because of our status we do, are you really that upset to have to buy meat?no. IM sick of hearing excuses for the abuse of the resources. Sorry about the emotion. :tup:
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
I can say that in other states with large bag limits, it is entirely possible for a family of 4 or 5 to consume 10 deer, 2 elk sized exotics, lots of rabbits/ducks/other birds and a couple wild hogs within a year. You can have all kinds of sausages, jerky and a variety of cuts of meat...eaten at multiple meals a day. I think a normal sized adult can eat a deer over 2 months. If a family is eating only one deer and elk over a year, my opinion is they aren't using the meat in every meal or are supplementing with other meat anyways.The question is not if the family can eat all of the meat but whether the herd can withstand the over harvest.... I believe the answer is no. Unlike other states our deer numbers cannot sustain that kind of harvest. I would love to eat deer and elk everyday but I won't do that at the expense of the deer and elk herds....
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 10:37:19 PM
The question is not if the family can eat all of the meat but whether the herd can withstand the over harvest.... I believe the answer is no.Actually the question I have is why must they eat mostly the biggest antlered migrating males? :dunno:
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 10:38:42 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 10:40:47 PM
[/quote]
Always thougt it was the does and cows who had the babies....Males ARE surplus.
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 10:41:45 PM
Like I asked earlier, how many years has this unit been a slaughtering ground. 5,10? I don't know, thats why I'm asking.There have been a small number of indians hunting in there for several years, not really a big deal. Its the last 2-3 years that its gotten out of hand, coincidentally not long after this site came along. ;)
Post by: Coastal_native on December 18, 2012, 10:42:55 PM
The question is not if the family can eat all of the meat but whether the herd can withstand the over harvest.... I believe the answer is no.Actually the question I have is why must they eat mostly the biggest antlered migrating males? :dunno:
Probably because those who are doing it have completely lost touch with their traditions and values...or they were never really impressed on them.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 10:43:30 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 10:43:56 PM
just a question for lil red and time and any other native Americans following this post.. how much does any one family need to sustain for the winter? i have a family of five and we are hard pressed to eat an elk and deer if I'm lucky enough to harvest both in one season. and why not share harvest info with wdfw to sustain herds for future of all. why not have a season set for your user group. and limit your late season harvest while deer are breeding and wintering. trying not to bash anyone just questions.i teach my kids its not a right to hunt, but a privilege... maybe i can get a legit answer, maybe not!There are multiple familys that need it also, I hunt for my inlaws also, but I dont go filling up my truck just because I can, just whats needed, also I dont do it cause of some bs shiapos did years and years ago lol thats just pure ignorance there I do cause its one of my rights
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
.Actually the question I have is why must they eat mostly the biggest antlered migrating males? :dunno:
[/quote]
Always thougt it was the does and cows who had the babies....Males ARE surplus.
[/quote]
That right there is ignorance. There is a reason that proper buck to doe ratio is important to proper herd management.
Post by: spin05 on December 18, 2012, 10:48:45 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 10:48:54 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:49:12 PM
just a question for lil red and time and any other native Americans following this post.. how much does any one family need to sustain for the winter? i have a family of five and we are hard pressed to eat an elk and deer if I'm lucky enough to harvest both in one season. and why not share harvest info with wdfw to sustain herds for future of all. why not have a season set for your user group. and limit your late season harvest while deer are breeding and wintering. trying not to bash anyone just questions.i teach my kids its not a right to hunt, but a privilege... maybe i can get a legit answer, maybe not!There are multiple familys that need it also, I hunt for my inlaws also, but I dont go filling up my truck just because I can, just whats needed, also I dont do it cause of some bs shiapos did years and years ago lol thats just pure ignorance there I do cause its one of my rights
How come we get hammered for using derogatory names for Native but they get to use their derogatory names for us?
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:50:00 PM
What do you mean by proper? Proper for horn growth, or numbers?Neither. Proper herd HEALTH.
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 10:56:10 PM
I dont do it cause of some bs shiapos did years and years ago lol thats just pure ignoranceWhere is your proof? Based on the current situation the arguement can be made that it was indians that actually wiped out the herds. ;)
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 10:59:05 PM
Pukes is more derogatory then shiapoExcept "pukes" isn't being used as a term describing Natives. It's being used as a term describing the people decimating our mule deer herds. Whereas "Shiapo" is being used to describe white people...
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:01:20 PM
How so?How am I supposed to teach you about proper herd management in one post? If you really care to learn there are a lot of different sources that will educate you on this. Our very own WDFW uses Buck to doe ratio as a big part of their herd management.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:04:02 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 18, 2012, 11:09:42 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:10:43 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 11:11:21 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:12:16 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:13:34 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:13:55 PM
Most of the herd health consideration I read about for buck to doe ratio is for genetic variance and buck health pre and during the rut. So, that bucks don't kill themselves looking for every available doe in an extended rut, leaving unbred does or late drop fawns. The indians it sounds like are at least waiting post rut for hunting. As long as the next crops of fawns and smaller bucks are genetically linked to the migrators, then the herd health should be fine. Hunting all the big bucks pre and during the rut in large numbers is what should hurt herd health. Is that how anyone else has understood it?Except the bucks continue to rut in December, does that are not bred during the first estrus often times do again later.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:17:19 PM
Post by: Limhangerslayer on December 18, 2012, 11:18:34 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:18:51 PM
Hell, all this talk about Entiat makes me curious about the place. Kinda country is it?It's a magical place where there are thousands of booner bucks frolicking all over the countryside. There are simply too many of them. You should actually go check the place out so you actually have a clue about what you are talking about...
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:20:09 PM
Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?It's doing great. We actually harvested 12 which is less then one bull per hunter. Not multiple bulls per hunter....
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:22:36 PM
Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:23:24 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:23:39 PM
For one he has NO clue what is actually going on over there...Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 18, 2012, 11:24:59 PM
And some even later, but not a large majority. If they enter into the winter grounds at a near ideal ratio, then a few of the bucks are still on doe booty duty, but not like it would be if a large amount of does went unbred (usually by the inexperienced bucks).
Except the bucks continue to rut in December, does that are not bred during the first estrus often times do again later.
But if this happens every year for 20 years, and non-tribal and tribal hunters get large amounts of impressive bucks; then shouldn't they have dwindled the herd by now? It's roughly the same number of bucks being pulled out each year?
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:26:23 PM
No its not, and the reduction in tags and shortened season shows it.And some even later, but a large majority. If they enter into the winter grounds at a near ideal ratio, then a few of the bucks are still on doe booty duty, but not like it would be if a large amount of does went unbred (usually by the inexperienced bucks).
Except the bucks continue to rut in December, does that are not bred during the first estrus often times do again later.
But if this happens every year for 20 years, and non-tribal and tribal hunters get large amounts of impressive bucks; then shouldn't they have dwindled the herd by now? It's roughly the same number of bucks being pulled out each year?
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:27:20 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:29:50 PM
I'll never take a "real" side to it.. Indians been hunting and killing for thousands of years. And will continue to do so. Don't see why folks can't grasp it. Besides, I just don't like it when folks all dogpile one or two people and even stretching to covert racism. Just seems like lots of folks have sour grapes they can't do the same.Fair enough but its not sustainable at the current pace. :twocents:
Post by: Coastal_native on December 18, 2012, 11:31:06 PM
Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
Post by: cougarbart on December 18, 2012, 11:32:27 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:34:40 PM
They manage the harvest with the length of the season, using the previous years harvest percentage to predict the total harvest. ;)Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:35:32 PM
I'll never take a "real" side to it.. Indians been hunting and killing for thousands of years. And will continue to do so. Don't see why folks can't grasp it. Besides, I just don't like it when folks all dogpile one or two people and even stretching to covert racism. Just seems like lots of folks have sour grapes they can't do the same.I for one don't have sour grapes. I am disgusted with what goes on. Not jealous. This not what has been going on for thousands of years. They used to be sustenance hunters...
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 18, 2012, 11:35:48 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:36:34 PM
whats not sustainable the herd or the trophy bucks?Both
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:36:41 PM
whats not sustainable the herd or the trophy bucks? thats why having a trophy area would be so much wiser in say lincoln county!The herd.
Post by: huntnphool on December 18, 2012, 11:38:21 PM
It wont let me load picture to so you phool :dunno:?
You clicked "Attachements and other options"? Then just "browse" for them in your computer.
Post by: grundy53 on December 18, 2012, 11:40:23 PM
Every three years the game department reviews harvest statistics and sets the dates of the hunts accordingly. There is a reason we only get to hunt with a rifle for 12 days... not 6 months and those 12 days are in November not September or December. Also we are only allowed one elk per person per year....Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
Post by: curlewkiller on December 18, 2012, 11:42:39 PM
How do you know he is a non-indian?
Post by: MountainWalk on December 18, 2012, 11:44:11 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on December 18, 2012, 11:48:23 PM
Every three years the game department reviews harvest statistics and sets the dates of the hunts accordingly. There is a reason we only get to hunt with a rifle for 12 days... not 6 months and those 12 days are in November not September or December. Also we are only allowed one elk per person per year....Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
And also can't hunt elk in the rut with a rifle, without a very tough to draw tag.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 18, 2012, 11:56:18 PM
Every three years the game department reviews harvest statistics and sets the dates of the hunts accordingly. There is a reason we only get to hunt with a rifle for 12 days... not 6 months and those 12 days are in November not September or December. Also we are only allowed one elk per person per year....Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
You're giving wdfw too much credit. There are people hunting from September through December in most areas (with a few breaks). If the state has a high success year they could effectively kill everything. Thank god for private property, closed gates, rain, lazy hunters, the park, the reservation, trees, brush, etc... Those things are what really limit harvest, not the state. If you don't agree with that, you have blinders on. I have a better understanding of population dynamics and reconstruction modeling then most. You can't fool me with big words. Regulations have little to do with actual science (state or tribal). Science may be used to try to justify decisions that have already been made.
Post by: Houndhunter on December 19, 2012, 12:20:28 AM
Just do one thing, look at our regs for deer and elk :twocents:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 19, 2012, 12:35:40 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 19, 2012, 12:36:52 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 19, 2012, 12:40:36 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 19, 2012, 12:44:12 AM
A big bull will typically have more meat on him than say a two years old cow same with a buck vs doe :chuckle:
Post by: ellensburgpo on December 19, 2012, 12:48:56 AM
So all the trophies are all yours to all who are in this discussion :dunno:
A big bull will typically have more meat on him than say a two years old cow same with a buck vs doe :chuckle:
Yeah, that's why they're the ones shot...
Post by: Houndhunter on December 19, 2012, 12:58:06 AM
And yes our regs do suck, hounding was banned when i was 6.
Post by: MountainWalk on December 19, 2012, 01:01:42 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 19, 2012, 01:16:35 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 19, 2012, 01:17:41 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 19, 2012, 01:20:40 AM
And where is that?
Call your native buddies and they will tell you. LOL
Post by: MountainWalk on December 19, 2012, 01:23:23 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 19, 2012, 01:25:26 AM
That the tribes have no excuse to what they are doing? That they take advantage of every opportunity they get? Im sorry this is the stereotype the tribes have given themselves, but dont try to condone what is going on. Try to skew things, but the truth is what the tribes are doing is wrong. Enjoy what you have while it lasts, and i dont think thats long.
I respect most natives and their heritage, but i can't stand what's happening in the tribes. Please go ask the elders what they think of their youth . When a kid serves a minor lifetime sentence only to be rewarded with over 100k when he gets out, i think theirs an issue
Post by: MountainWalk on December 19, 2012, 01:28:59 AM
I'll never take a "real" side to it.. Indians been hunting and killing for thousands of years. And will continue to do so. Don't see why folks can't grasp it. Besides, I just don't like it when folks all dogpile one or two people and even stretching to covert racism. Just seems like lots of folks have sour grapes they can't do the same.Why don't YOU go talk to the elders. I really don;t care one way or the other.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 19, 2012, 01:52:03 AM
Looks like AK to me. In which case, it has no bearing on this discussion. Up there, you may kill many many deer. My native buddies? I hardly know em! How presumptuous!
You are correct. This was taken by a friend of mine last week at Admiralty Island, Alaska. I agree with you that it has nothing to do with this discussion to the Entiat herd. I posted it to show everyone that this is a FEDERAL ISSUE. This kind of herd abuse happens all over the country. Entiat is just a very small portion of the big picture. If the forum wants change, then you need to gather data, pictures, etc. and take it federal. That is why this debate comes up every year in the forum; only to be rehashed the following year. Locking gates may help, but the abuse will move to another access area. In order to stop the abuse, you have to get the federal government involved and show specific abuse taking place in multiple states across the country. The need to revise the treaty or it may never stop until there is nothing left to harvest. IMO
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on December 19, 2012, 05:45:57 AM
Post by: fishunt247 on December 19, 2012, 06:37:15 AM
Quote
Its been answered a couple times, have you been reading the posts? I know I answered a couple times myself, post #311 for example.
I have been. I read the Lock the Gates thread. I guess I just didn't see any real move for us instead of "locking the gates." Which is a great idea, but how? Who do we need to contact to get it done?
If I missed it, my fault. Fill me in, please.
Post by: buglebuster on December 19, 2012, 07:01:03 AM
I guess we could lock the gates ourselves josh :chuckle:QuoteIts been answered a couple times, have you been reading the posts? I know I answered a couple times myself, post #311 for example.
I have been. I read the Lock the Gates thread. I guess I just didn't see any real move for us instead of "locking the gates." Which is a great idea, but how? Who do we need to contact to get it done?
If I missed it, my fault. Fill me in, please.
Post by: cougarbart on December 19, 2012, 07:46:56 AM
Post by: cougarbart on December 19, 2012, 07:54:04 AM
Post by: mountainman on December 19, 2012, 07:57:27 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on December 19, 2012, 08:12:19 AM
Post by: rose673 on December 19, 2012, 08:19:51 AM
Every three years the game department reviews harvest statistics and sets the dates of the hunts accordingly. There is a reason we only get to hunt with a rifle for 12 days... not 6 months and those 12 days are in November not September or December. Also we are only allowed one elk per person per year....Well, if so many bucks are getting dropped after the main rut, seems like a doe doesn't have that much of a hard time getting bred. Grundy, if I recall correctly, didn't you say that there were 17 in your party? And 13 bulls killed? That's an awful lot of bull killing for one camp. How is your herd doing?The difference here Mountainwalk is they are accounted for and have harvest limits set accordingly.
Its obvious you have no problem with whats happening in Entiat and Swakane, you seem to be arguing the indians point to exhaustion, why not just come out and say it? :dunno:
Not to be inflammatory, but there are infinite over the counter bull and buck tags available in most areas here in western Washington. Where are the harvest limits in that management regime? There are areas over here that can have every branched bull shot out just as Long as we keep most of those spikes alive until the end of the following September so they can breed as rag horns. That's how a party of 17 can shoot 12 elk from "managed" herds.
You're giving wdfw too much credit. There are people hunting from September through December in most areas (with a few breaks). If the state has a high success year they could effectively kill everything. Thank god for private property, closed gates, rain, lazy hunters, the park, the reservation, trees, brush, etc... Those things are what really limit harvest, not the state. If you don't agree with that, you have blinders on. I have a better understanding of population dynamics and reconstruction modeling then most. You can't fool me with big words. Regulations have little to do with actual science (state or tribal). Science may be used to try to justify decisions that have already been made.
I'm glad you have a better understanding of population dynamics coastal, and I sure hope you have spread the word to the tribe, because humptulips area used to be the best hunting in the state 15 to 25 years ago for elk, then the tribe used their population dynamics and you couldn't find an elk to shoot!
Post by: MtnMuley on December 19, 2012, 08:24:37 AM
houndhunter isnt washingtons beliefs great! Its morally alright to marry the same sex, its also morally ok to have an abortion and washington decided now to say its morally alright to smoke weed, even tho the federal government say no! YET hound hunting and baiting is considered morally unethical! i wouldn't put to much stock in the wdfw hunting regs!lol
:lol4: ............but WDFW allows the baiting of deer for harvest, so it's all cool. :chuckle:
Post by: cougarbart on December 19, 2012, 08:52:14 AM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 19, 2012, 09:46:08 AM
New thread?
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 19, 2012, 10:40:35 AM
Coastal, regardless of the comments directed towards our particular group your words of wisdom are always welcomed in my book and I agree with what's occured in your area as far asmanagement efforts. I don't think we can hold you accountable for what occured 25 years ago but, we can applaud the efforts you're doing now.
Friends of the Entiat, now this sounds like action and I wish you guys the best. Like I've said before, doing something is better than doing nothing.
Post by: huntnphool on December 19, 2012, 10:44:54 AM
I'd say he's just like me, big ole fingers trying to push little buttons on a phone. I usually punch extra keys but, for me i edit because I got more time on my hands to edit. Im not going to say anything to anybody as long as I can understand and comprehend what they're trying to say. Just my 2 cents.I was just commenting on the hypocrisy, those in glass houses "definitely" shouldn't throw stones. ;)
Coastal, regardless of the comments directed towards our particular group your words of wisdom are always welcomed in my book and I agree with what's occured in your area as far asmanagement efforts. I don't think we can hold you accountable for what occured 25 years ago but, we can applaud the efforts you're doing now.
Friends of the Entiat, now this sounds like action and I wish you guys the best. Like I've said before, doing something is better than doing nothing.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 19, 2012, 10:49:51 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 19, 2012, 10:51:09 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 19, 2012, 11:00:16 AM
If this was a big deal ( the tribes slaughtering deer in Entiat ) except for the 27 pages of the same-o, same-o, dontcha think the Feds would do something about it ? No, because the tribes can do it and nothing will ever change in your life times.LOL, the Feds have bigger problems in this country right now than worrying about deer, but don't think for a second that there is nothing that can be done.
Post by: seansfire on December 19, 2012, 11:02:10 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 19, 2012, 11:17:24 AM
Post by: C-Money on December 19, 2012, 11:20:57 AM
Post by: seansfire on December 19, 2012, 11:24:18 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 19, 2012, 11:29:12 AM
Post by: jackelope on December 19, 2012, 11:34:47 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 19, 2012, 11:36:44 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 19, 2012, 11:38:59 AM
So we can keep bitching or move forward. I will participate in any discussion that constructively works towards something productive.
FYI, even getting just one trophy deer and elk a year (tags for which we wait 10-20 years) and then simply posting pictures of them as "bull" or "buck" feels like a direct shot :twocents:. Right or wrong, that's just the way I feel.
Anyways. I'm out until this is actually going somewhere. :hello:
what would you like me to post? 2 tribal members harvest 1 bull and 1 buck each. thought it was ok to post pics on this site? that is why i never have posted pics before. i knew someone would complain.
the other thing is they actually have a real good story for all the hunts but whats the point in posting those now.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 19, 2012, 11:45:39 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 19, 2012, 11:47:02 AM
Post by: Holg3107 on December 19, 2012, 11:50:16 AM
Post by: huntnphool on December 19, 2012, 11:55:06 AM
Igotbigbulls: I had no problem with the pics of your bucks and bulls that you posted. Natives that manage to not abuse the system and harvest what they need and eat aren't the problem. You killed 1 buck, and 1 bull, I personally would not call that abusing your hunting rights and I welcome photos on the site with open arms. Also judging by the photos (photos can be misleading) it doesn't appear that you shot these in volatile wintering grounds. If all natives hunted and treated their rights similar to the way you, plat, and coastal do these discussions wouldn't be brought up. The tribes have the ability to govern and control the way their members hunt and it would be nice to see some steps taken from them to show a consciousness of the situation. Please continue to post pics, opinions, ect... on the sight because it helps to:yeah:
see that there are natives out there that care and have the ability to use good judgment when it comes to hunting and game management.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 19, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
I'm glad you have a better understanding of population dynamics coastal, and I sure hope you have spread the word to the tribe, because humptulips area used to be the best hunting in the state 15 to 25 years ago for elk, then the tribe used their population dynamics and you couldn't find an elk to shoot!
I'm not denying there was an increase in tribal harvest during that time period, but any population "crash" in that area (if there was one) would also align with the timber harvest activities of the major timber companies in that area. I don't think it's uncommon to see peaks and valleys in west side populations when a watershed is completely logged over a ten year time period. That, and I think it also aligns well with a change in wdfw season setting. The 3 pt or better regime, infinite over the counter tags, multiple weapon general seasons. Go out there and take a look now and tell me what you find. Ask your buddy Rav. Our harvest has been reduced to almost nothing over the last 5 years in all the GMU's that make up the humptulips watershed because of limited access, Rayonier RLU's, increased pressure, monoculture management by the commercial timber companies, lack of predator management, lack of enforcement, etc... If the tribe was ever the limiting factor, it has been almost completely removed for the last 5-10 years. I assume it's "great hunting" again as a result. :)
Typically when someone refers to a hunting or fishing area as having "great hunting or fishing" it usually means people are having good success. It can't last forever. All those mature bulls and bucks that had plenty of sanctuary prior to the logging activities probably fell victim to "great hunting". You probably saw an increase in population as result of all the forage, but a complete restructuring of the age composition of bulls and bucks as people took advantage of the "great hunting".
That's my guess, anyway. I like this little rivalry we still have going...only in high school you were the Indian. :chuckle:
Post by: Limhangerslayer on December 19, 2012, 12:27:48 PM
Post by: rose673 on December 19, 2012, 12:36:55 PM
I'm glad you have a better understanding of population dynamics coastal, and I sure hope you have spread the word to the tribe, because humptulips area used to be the best hunting in the state 15 to 25 years ago for elk, then the tribe used their population dynamics and you couldn't find an elk to shoot!
I'm not denying there was an increase in tribal harvest during that time period, but any population "crash" in that area (if there was one) would also align with the timber harvest activities of the major timber companies in that area. I don't think it's uncommon to see peaks and valleys in west side populations when a watershed is completely logged over a ten year time period. That, and I think it also aligns well with a change in wdfw season setting. The 3 pt or better regime, infinite over the counter tags, multiple weapon general seasons. Go out there and take a look now and tell me what you find. Ask your buddy Rav. Our harvest has been reduced to almost nothing over the last 5 years in all the GMU's that make up the humptulips watershed because of limited access, Rayonier RLU's, increased pressure, monoculture management by the commercial timber companies, lack of predator management, lack of enforcement, etc... If the tribe was ever the limiting factor, it has been almost completely removed for the last 5-10 years. I assume it's "great hunting" again as a result. :)
Typically when someone refers to a hunting or fishing area as having "great hunting or fishing" it usually means people are having good success. It can't last forever. All those mature bulls and bucks that had plenty of sanctuary prior to the logging activities probably fell victim to "great hunting". You probably saw an increase in population as result of all the forage, but a complete restructuring of the age composition of bulls and bucks as people took advantage of the "great hunting".
That's my guess, anyway. I like this little rivalry we still have going...only in high school you were the Indian. :chuckle:
:) I agree with some of your logic, but can't say I agree 100% with a Hyak. And by the way I still am the true Indian, just not recognized! :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on December 19, 2012, 07:57:12 PM
I vote a new Plat, Time, Coastal comics thread be started. These have to be some of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time!!!!
Might have been funny but please keep from distracting from this thread. Thanks
Post by: wilsongideon on December 19, 2012, 10:51:52 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 19, 2012, 11:09:09 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 20, 2012, 12:58:49 AM
Post by: igotbigbulls on December 20, 2012, 07:01:28 AM
You guys still beating a dead horse; or dead pile of deer in the back of a natives truck for that matter. Just check the pics I posted several pages back. Maybe I will have my wife exercise her native rights and go shoot a trophy? Nah...cus that is not hunting. If she wants a deer, then she can go hunt for it that right way. That is why they call it hunting. Not drive up in the ENTIAT and shoot several.
so she doesnt exercise her rights to hunt at all as a tribal member? just curious.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 20, 2012, 12:10:06 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 20, 2012, 07:59:25 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 20, 2012, 08:01:40 PM
time do you need a packer?lol
You gonna drop the tailgate or roll down the window?
Post by: eastsidewa on December 20, 2012, 08:34:02 PM
Post by: eastsidewa on December 20, 2012, 08:36:25 PM
Off to go check out this Entiat place :tup:how many ya get today?
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 20, 2012, 09:13:09 PM
Post by: boonerboy on December 20, 2012, 09:59:58 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on December 20, 2012, 10:01:18 PM
Seriously. If you are Just going to make stupid comments why don't you find something else to do. I am confused by your comments, do you think it's ok to kill numerous big bucks on their winter range? If so, what are your reasons? If not, why are you trying to push everyone's buttons? If u can't answer seriously then please don't answer at all.
He must just think he's being funny. Only way I can make sense of his pointless comments.
Post by: eastsidewa on December 20, 2012, 10:50:49 PM
A whole truck load of trophy bucks last count was 11 thanks for tha info :tup:pics please. lets see um!!! unless you are nutless
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 20, 2012, 11:01:48 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on December 20, 2012, 11:03:39 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 03:00:38 AM
You guys still beating a dead horse; or dead pile of deer in the back of a natives truck for that matter. Just check the pics I posted several pages back. Maybe I will have my wife exercise her native rights and go shoot a trophy? Nah...cus that is not hunting. If she wants a deer, then she can go hunt for it that right way. That is why they call it hunting. Not drive up in the ENTIAT and shoot several.
so she doesnt exercise her rights to hunt at all as a tribal member? just curious.
She is Yakima and Colville. She grew up around it, but has never had any desire to kill an animal. She inherieted 47 acres of tribal land on the Colville reservation, but we don't spend much time on her property. We talked about it, but have never made much of an effort to go.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 03:04:23 AM
A whole truck load of trophy bucks last count was 11 thanks for tha info :tup:
Here is his truck load...
Post by: royalbull on December 21, 2012, 06:31:19 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 21, 2012, 06:47:55 AM
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 21, 2012, 06:48:51 AM
Post by: Tbar on December 21, 2012, 06:53:48 AM
A whole truck load of trophy bucks last count was 11 thanks for tha info :tup:
Here is his truck load...
This is a sad attempt to stir the pot. It amazes me how bad people want to be cool online. Ps aren't there whitetail mixed in there?
Post by: Yak-NDN on December 21, 2012, 06:54:41 AM
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 21, 2012, 09:08:57 AM
I'm with phool. close the roads down in September - march it would indeed keep the kill numbers down and create awesome hunt for those willing to walk a little. Idaho has the migratory routes and wintering grounds closed for motorized vehicles starting mid September. forest service closes gates and anyone caught behind gate with vehicles get steep fines. just my :twocents:
What an idea! I don't understand why WDFW can't figure this out? Its Forest Service property in both states. It seems simple to me?
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 21, 2012, 09:11:39 AM
Off to go check out this Entiat place :tup:
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 21, 2012, 09:47:08 AM
Off to go check out this Entiat place :tup:
This phrase alone was enough for me to decipher he hasn't been there. That and I'm almost 100% positive he's never been there since we do know each other. Yes, things are occuring but, continuing to provide false photo's does nothing for the cause. If false info. is continued to be provided then it calls into question any other info. that is presented. Legitimate photos and stories will become questionable because one person who thinks he's cute and funny keeps presenting false photos and info.
What's the difference between his humor and the other attempts at humor by others? I've seen ill-attempted humor that was derogatory and demeaning but, you don't see me crying about it all the time.
Post by: _TONY_ on December 21, 2012, 09:50:33 AM
If false info. is continued to be provided then it calls into question any other info. that is presented. Legitimate photos and stories will become questionable because one person who thinks he's cute and funny keeps presenting false photos
+100
Post by: TD on December 21, 2012, 10:15:11 AM
Really? I'm asking....What about the voter initiative process? Something along the lines of tribes being allowed to hunt how they want and when they want only applying to reservation lands. All other "public " land users need to follow the same rules. Novel idea huh?
I'm serious here. Look at last falls election. The Gays and Dope smokers got their legislation pushed through right? I'm assuming we can use the same vehicle.
Post by: bobcat on December 21, 2012, 10:15:56 AM
We already know it happens, proof isn't really necessary. What we do need is the WDFW acknowledging that there is a problem with excessive killing of mule deer while they are most vulnerable on their winter range.
As others have already stated, there are already numerous areas that are closed during the winter months to protect wildlife from poaching, tribal over-harvest, and stress caused by people and motorized vehicles.
So what is needed here is some cooperation between the Forest Service and the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. But first, the WDFW needs to hear from us. Then if they agree the Entiat mule deer need protection, they need to work with the Forest Service in getting the area shut down for whatever period of time they decide is necessary.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 21, 2012, 10:39:00 AM
Jennifer Quan (WDFW Lands Manager): Jennifer.Quan@dfw.wa.gov
Scott Fitkin (Region 2 Biologist): Scott.Fitkin@dfw.wa.gov
David Volsen (Region 2 Biologist): David.Volsen@dfw.wa.gov
Dennis Beich (Region 2 Director): Dennis.Beich@dfw.wa.gov
Post by: buckhorn2 on December 21, 2012, 10:47:29 AM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 11:27:48 AM
That can't be his truck too many does in thereAn I would never own or buy an chevy
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 11:30:08 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 21, 2012, 11:31:12 AM
Post by: Coastal_native on December 21, 2012, 12:08:02 PM
If they can rewrite the second amendment they sure can rewrite a treaty it;s done all the time when something is so far outdated.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
Post by: MtnMuley on December 21, 2012, 12:11:54 PM
If they can rewrite the second amendment they sure can rewrite a treaty it;s done all the time when something is so far outdated.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
Then what you're saying is that it might be doable to exclude the harvest of winter range deer on certain ceeded grounds, with the re-writing of this treaty? If so, this is the option that I feel all of us hunters should suggest to pretect this critical resource.
Post by: coachcw on December 21, 2012, 12:25:53 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 21, 2012, 12:31:13 PM
"How can you guys let this go on for 30 pages USELESS Nothen we can do about it ...Well legally "the initiatives concern state law, the tribes are under federal laws. Might get a change on some state lands with the open and unclaimed, but they were exempt from discover passes. Also, hunting and initiatives don't seem to work out too well in the I-5 voter state.
Really? I'm asking....What about the voter initiative process? Something along the lines of tribes being allowed to hunt how they want and when they want only applying to reservation lands. All other "public " land users need to follow the same rules. Novel idea huh?
I'm serious here. Look at last falls election. The Gays and Dope smokers got their legislation pushed through right? I'm assuming we can use the same vehicle.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 21, 2012, 12:33:40 PM
If they can rewrite the second amendment they sure can rewrite a treaty it;s done all the time when something is so far outdated.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
Then what you're saying is that it might be doable to exclude the harvest of winter range deer on certain ceeded grounds, with the re-writing of this treaty? If so, this is the option that I feel all of us hunters should suggest to pretect this critical resource.
No, that's not what I'm saying, but you're more than welcome to say it.
What I'm saying is that people think treaties need to be "re-written" because they're "outdated", but in reality they've been re-written numerous times, much to the detriment of Indians.
The solution to the situation in Entiat isn't a "re-write" of the treaty. A "treaty right" is not slaughtering wintering deer in Entiat...an idiot is.
I think I've heard something along those lines before in a similar debate.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 21, 2012, 01:09:32 PM
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 21, 2012, 01:19:46 PM
Its game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.
Being able to kill whatever you want whenever you want is not ok no matter what. When the treaties were signed, animals were killed strictly for survival purposes. Well that is no longer the case and there has to be some sort of limit and season.
Post by: boonerboy on December 21, 2012, 01:27:25 PM
Post by: TD on December 21, 2012, 01:57:54 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 02:06:10 PM
I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 21, 2012, 02:14:06 PM
Post by: CAM38 on December 21, 2012, 02:23:06 PM
,
Post by: Coastal_native on December 21, 2012, 02:26:43 PM
Why are you acting as if rewriting the treaty's would be a bad thing?
I'm not acting...
I don't think the treaty reserved anyone the right to slaughter deer on wintering grounds to the degree it's being portrayed. I don't think the people who are doing it have any concept of treaty rights.
Post by: Rainier10 on December 21, 2012, 02:31:04 PM
Amen Coastal. :tup:Why are you acting as if rewriting the treaty's would be a bad thing?
I'm not acting...
I don't think the treaty reserved anyone the right to slaughter deer on wintering grounds to the degree it's being portrayed. I don't think the people who are doing it have any concept of treaty rights.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 21, 2012, 02:32:36 PM
The Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too. It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago. The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible. How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe. The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and destruction of property. Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked. Get real jobs and join society.
,
"Might have been funny, but please keep from distracting from this thread"
Post by: Rainier10 on December 21, 2012, 02:37:10 PM
32 pages in I thought that one might be the one that finally got it locked. It has been edited a ton and warnings through out to stay on subject, just a matter of time before it gets locked.The Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too. It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago. The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible. How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe. The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and destruction of property. Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked. Get real jobs and join society.
,
"Might have been funny, but please keep from distracting from this thread"
Post by: TD on December 21, 2012, 02:40:39 PM
Amen to all that. The dope thing is a perfect example. And as far as it being a state thing, Why don't other state have these problems too?
Also at risk of mixing apples and oranges (again..)
I know the Judge Bolt decision was just for Washington state.
I think we can attack this on state level !!
Post by: Rainier10 on December 21, 2012, 02:45:43 PM
I am still amazed that there are this many posts on the subject and so few if any credible pictures of abuse.
Post by: Tbar on December 21, 2012, 02:50:17 PM
Post by: CAM38 on December 21, 2012, 02:51:14 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on December 21, 2012, 03:07:06 PM
Its game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.
That was exactly my proposal at the start of these threads, but it's apparent that working with the Nation's leaders is useless, so therefor, I recommend the treaty be re-written to exclude this nonsense killing of animals on their winter range. That'd sure give enforcement the okay to put a halt to this. :dunno:
Post by: spin05 on December 21, 2012, 03:17:21 PM
Post by: cougarbart on December 21, 2012, 03:21:54 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on December 21, 2012, 03:24:48 PM
and just like state laws, the tribe isn't going to change something if there isn't viable evidence that its hurting the resource! Also remember the tribe isn't concerned about trophy hunting for non members that is the states hunt and rules trying to make it one! So Plat is wanting evidence and proof that if he goes and suggests restrictions on a right that they won, he darn well better have a good reason other than because a bunch of white people are upset about it! I will tell you this you aren't going to make the tribe do anything so instead ask with a reasonable solution and concern might get alot futher than threatening their rights!:yeah: :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on December 21, 2012, 03:44:44 PM
Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
That being said there are a few things that could be done but it would be ugly, and I doubt the government would do it for something as low on their radar as hunting/fishing, I think they are holding those cards for something they really want. :twocents:
In the meantime, a motorized vehicle ban with locked gates would do wonders.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 04:07:44 PM
I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?
Post by: huntnphool on December 21, 2012, 04:24:13 PM
Most other wintering areas already are locked and have vehicle bans during that time period.I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area.
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 21, 2012, 04:28:42 PM
Are the gates in the Entiat on Federal land?Most other wintering areas already are locked and have vehicle bans during that time period.I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area.
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 04:42:06 PM
I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?
They aren't doing anything they can be prosecuted for unless they are selling meat or wasting it.
Post by: Coastal_native on December 21, 2012, 04:42:28 PM
I did not mean literally re-wrote. Example: a reservation was set aside for our exclusive use, but through subsequent legislation we don't even own our reservation in its entirety, nor do we have sole jurisdiction. Or, a large portion of our ceded area of which we reserved the right to hunt is now the Olympic national park...which according to court rulings abrogated our treaty right.Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
Post by: huntnphool on December 21, 2012, 04:44:50 PM
I understand that CN, I'm just saying that the Yakima treaty is quite different than the other tribes throughout the state.I did not mean literally re-wrote. Example: a reservation was set aside for our exclusive use, but through subsequent legislation we don't even own our reservation in its entirety, nor do we have sole jurisdiction. Or, a large portion of our ceded area of which we reserved the right to hunt is now the Olympic national park...which according to court rulings abrogated our treaty right.Not all of the treaties have been redone, I believe the Yakima tribe is the only tribe that still has the original treaty intact.
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think the "outdated treaty" argument is always made with a lack of understanding. The treaties have essentially been rewritten numerous times over the course of history through court decision, congressional acts, etc... and very seldom (if ever) have these "re-writes" been to the benefit of Indians.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 04:47:08 PM
The Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too. It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago. The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible. How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe. The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and destruction of property. Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked. Get real jobs and join society.
,
I agree with alot of what you are saying, but I don't think you have a very good understanding of what the average Yakama native receives every month. My wife is enrolled. We get $115.00 per month. That is less that $1800.00 per year. I could NOT live off $1800 per week. She does not excercise her right to hunt or fish. We don't live on the res. We have 2 non-enrolled boys, which we pay for. We do not use the native healthcare. Why? One it is like going to the DMV. Two...it is a very low level of healthcare. Three....I am a Medical Sales rep and my benifits are stacked. No she does not work. Why? Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. The Yakamas make their money on timber and coal primarly. At least that is what she tells me her tribal letters say. The one small casino they have in Toppenish is not racking in the dollars that the Emerald Qween brings in on I-5. The Puyallups get paid. Her best friend is Puyallup. She gets $2500 per month for herself, plus $1500 per child. She has 3 kids. Her parents own a ton of property and small biz in Puyallup. She is a very hard worker, despite the fact that she could sit on her ass and do nothing. Despite my negative views towards natives taking advantage of the system; I think many people have no idea how it is for the MAJORITY of the natives out there. I am not condoning anything that is going on in the ENTIAT. Just saying it is not all hearts and flowers for them. I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty. Back to the topic...
Post by: skywalker253 on December 21, 2012, 04:48:44 PM
I think it might be time to try to hire Tim Iman (spelling?) And I think if it was proposed as an initiative to "limit" the killing of vulnerable deer the West side tree hugger gang might support it?????Unfortunately it's not a "west side tree hugger" decision to make. It's a federal thing and Iman has nothing to do with it. Gates with no motorized access is the answer.
So lock the gates in the Entiat, so then they just go elsewhere and kill off another unlocked area. That makes some sense, but I don't see this being a longterm solution. Their tribal hunting laws need to be revised. Even then they will probably still abuse the resource and get off in tribal court. Perhaps a combination solutions is the best approach. I think the FEDS should give the state game departments the rights to catch/detain natives offending. Then they are turned over to the tribe for prosecution. Perhaps it is that way now? Not sure?
They aren't doing anything they can be prosecuted for unless they are selling meat or wasting it.
Duh....thats why I said the TRIBAL HUNTING LAWS need to be revised.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 04:52:43 PM
We cannot kill whatever we want whenever we want just the factsIts game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.
Being able to kill whatever you want whenever you want is not ok no matter what. When the treaties were signed, animals were killed strictly for survival purposes. Well that is no longer the case and there has to be some sort of limit and season.
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 04:55:05 PM
What is the limit on deer harvest during your season ??
Post by: MountainWalk on December 21, 2012, 04:57:12 PM
Post by: Curly on December 21, 2012, 05:01:00 PM
Post by: boonerboy on December 21, 2012, 05:01:15 PM
Obviously you can because these guys were are talking about in entiat have been stopped more than once and just turned loose. Wether your hunting laws say you can or not doesn't matter if there is no enforcement. What do your laws say about when, where and how many deer u can harvest?We cannot kill whatever we want whenever we want just the factsIts game laws and management that need to be updated not the Treaties.
Being able to kill whatever you want whenever you want is not ok no matter what. When the treaties were signed, animals were killed strictly for survival purposes. Well that is no longer the case and there has to be some sort of limit and season.
Post by: huntnphool on December 21, 2012, 05:04:22 PM
Gating is likely a LOT easier solution than trying to change any Treaties. Besides, gating would help with poachers as well, not just native Americans that abuse their system. :twocents:Exactly why I started the "Lock the gates" thread, its not just indians.
Post by: Curly on December 21, 2012, 05:05:31 PM
:tup:Gating is likely a LOT easier solution than trying to change any Treaties. Besides, gating would help with poachers as well, not just native Americans that abuse their system. :twocents:Exactly why I started the "Lock the gates" thread, its not just indians.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 05:22:52 PM
And all that moneyvis taxed rightThe Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too. It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago. The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible. How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe. The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and destruction of property. Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked. Get real jobs and join society.
,
I agree with alot of what you are saying, but I don't think you have a very good understanding of what the average Yakama native receives every month. My wife is enrolled. We get $115.00 per month. That is less that $1800.00 per year. I could NOT live off $1800 per week. She does not excercise her right to hunt or fish. We don't live on the res. We have 2 non-enrolled boys, which we pay for. We do not use the native healthcare. Why? One it is like going to the DMV. Two...it is a very low level of healthcare. Three....I am a Medical Sales rep and my benifits are stacked. No she does not work. Why? Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. The Yakamas make their money on timber and coal primarly. At least that is what she tells me her tribal letters say. The one small casino they have in Toppenish is not racking in the dollars that the Emerald Qween brings in on I-5. The Puyallups get paid. Her best friend is Puyallup. She gets $2500 per month for herself, plus $1500 per child. She has 3 kids. Her parents own a ton of property and small biz in Puyallup. She is a very hard worker, despite the fact that she could sit on her ass and do nothing. Despite my negative views towards natives taking advantage of the system; I think many people have no idea how it is for the MAJORITY of the natives out there. I am not condoning anything that is going on in the ENTIAT. Just saying it is not all hearts and flowers for them. I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty. Back to the topic...
Post by: ellensburgpo on December 21, 2012, 05:23:25 PM
Time-
What is the limit on deer harvest during your season ??
I'm curious as well...
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 21, 2012, 05:30:51 PM
Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. ...... I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty.
I think if you paid $72k in taxes you are a bit more than upper middle class. I consider myself middle class and don't even make that much in gross income.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 05:57:55 PM
2Time-
What is the limit on deer harvest during your season ??
I'm curious as well...
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 06:25:32 PM
2 deer per season?2Time-
What is the limit on deer harvest during your season ??
I'm curious as well...
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 06:36:14 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 06:50:16 PM
2 many :chuckle:
We're not laughing.
Post by: bobcat on December 21, 2012, 06:52:35 PM
Male deer - Year 'round
Female deer - September 1 to December 31
No limit
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
2 every season
Spring summer fall an winter :chuckle:
Post by: whiteeyes on December 21, 2012, 07:01:12 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 21, 2012, 07:06:34 PM
Bobcat thats NO female deer/elk from Jan.1 through Aug. 31.
Thanks, I fixed it.
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 21, 2012, 07:16:20 PM
This is a rediculous thread that is not going anywhere. What it comes down to is the white man f###ed the Indian way of life up . OK .. in the last 200 years my great great grandfather my great grandfather my grand father my father and I have been born in this country . Enough said.Thank you for providing us with your families legacy.
Would you care to offer a solution or have you said enough?
Post by: Simcoe hunter on December 21, 2012, 08:14:20 PM
But it would be nice if off the rez they had to follow our rules in terms of tags, limits, etc. Time to write to one of those worthless turds in D.C. or Olympia I guess.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 21, 2012, 08:37:20 PM
That is exactly what I think ...looks like all whitetail to me too ...but it is hard to tell from this little picture ..but thats what it looks like to me :tup:A whole truck load of trophy bucks last count was 11 thanks for tha info :tup:
Here is his truck load...
This is a sad attempt to stir the pot. It amazes me how bad people want to be cool online. Ps aren't there whitetail mixed in there?
Post by: seansfire on December 21, 2012, 09:00:14 PM
i couldnt agree more with the person who said enough is enough and we should tear up the treaties and do away with the reservations and they can try being equal citizens instead of the welfare mongers they are now.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 09:30:09 PM
Bull was a small three by four rag horn in which it was me and my three year old son walked all over an bugled him in,
The buck was an ugly one by four, which needed to be kulled cause he was tryna breed does, had four does with him, hate all ya want on that they were on the rez also,
The bull was a trophy cause my son was with me
Post by: jackelope on December 21, 2012, 10:21:36 PM
On tha real I've only shot one bull an one buck this year,That's good stuff with your boy. Congrats.
Bull was a small three by four rag horn in which it was me and my three year old son walked all over an bugled him in,
The buck was an ugly one by four, which needed to be kulled cause he was tryna breed does, had four does with him, hate all ya want on that they were on the rez also,
The bull was a trophy cause my son was with me
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on December 21, 2012, 10:31:03 PM
:tup:On tha real I've only shot one bull an one buck this year,That's good stuff with your boy. Congrats.
Bull was a small three by four rag horn in which it was me and my three year old son walked all over an bugled him in,
The buck was an ugly one by four, which needed to be kulled cause he was tryna breed does, had four does with him, hate all ya want on that they were on the rez also,
The bull was a trophy cause my son was with me
Thats whats its all about!!!!!!! :tup:
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 21, 2012, 10:46:30 PM
:tup:On tha real I've only shot one bull an one buck this year,That's good stuff with your boy. Congrats.
Bull was a small three by four rag horn in which it was me and my three year old son walked all over an bugled him in,
The buck was an ugly one by four, which needed to be kulled cause he was tryna breed does, had four does with him, hate all ya want on that they were on the rez also,
The bull was a trophy cause my son was with me
Thats whats its all about!!!!!!! :tup:
What's all this nice stuff doing here? We're supposed to bash on him cause he didn't kill them with a sharp rock tied to a stick, not congratulate him. Just look at the terrible example he's setting for his kid, now he'll never grow up to be a proper Indian hunter.
:chuckle:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 10:58:34 PM
Post by: boonerboy on December 21, 2012, 11:10:51 PM
Post by: crazysccrmd on December 21, 2012, 11:15:37 PM
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 21, 2012, 11:26:33 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on December 22, 2012, 12:29:03 AM
And all that moneyvis taxed rightThe Indians have been coddled by our government for to long, they abuse their rights, not only hunting, but fishing, crabbing, and shrimping too. It's time to stop feeling sorry about what happened over one hundred years ago. The government needs to disestablish all the reservations and the Indians need to adapt to the way of living in this day and age and follow the same laws as everyone else. I see more of the fishing, crabbing, shrimping abuse as that occurs a lot in my area, granted its bit big game, its just as horrible. How can the tribes claim they have to eat from the wild and can't afford yo go to the grocery store like the rest of us? Pretty sure these tribes have casinos that provide them with free money just for being a member of the tribe. The Indians can say what they want, but I can drive to 7 reservations within an hour of me and see first hand their absolute waste of money and destruction of property. Reservations are disgusting, Indian rights should be revoked. Get real jobs and join society.
,
I agree with alot of what you are saying, but I don't think you have a very good understanding of what the average Yakama native receives every month. My wife is enrolled. We get $115.00 per month. That is less that $1800.00 per year. I could NOT live off $1800 per week. She does not excercise her right to hunt or fish. We don't live on the res. We have 2 non-enrolled boys, which we pay for. We do not use the native healthcare. Why? One it is like going to the DMV. Two...it is a very low level of healthcare. Three....I am a Medical Sales rep and my benifits are stacked. No she does not work. Why? Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. The Yakamas make their money on timber and coal primarly. At least that is what she tells me her tribal letters say. The one small casino they have in Toppenish is not racking in the dollars that the Emerald Qween brings in on I-5. The Puyallups get paid. Her best friend is Puyallup. She gets $2500 per month for herself, plus $1500 per child. She has 3 kids. Her parents own a ton of property and small biz in Puyallup. She is a very hard worker, despite the fact that she could sit on her ass and do nothing. Despite my negative views towards natives taking advantage of the system; I think many people have no idea how it is for the MAJORITY of the natives out there. I am not condoning anything that is going on in the ENTIAT. Just saying it is not all hearts and flowers for them. I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty. Back to the topic...
Yes, she gets a W2 from the tribe every year. But it is not much. Last year we paid $135.00 tax on about $1800.00 of her yearly tribal income.
Post by: skywalker253 on December 22, 2012, 12:34:31 AM
Because we paid $72,000 in taxes last year. I make too much money so she is better off staying at home and taking care of the kids. ...... I see it from both sides, as I up a upper middle class white man and she came from the res and grew up in poverty.
I think if you paid $72k in taxes you are a bit more than upper middle class. I consider myself middle class and don't even make that much in gross income.
I made $241K, but since I am a commission based employee; I get taken to the cleaners. I lose every write off, expect my student loan interest, percentage of gas, and my home office depreciation. I get a whopping $100 per child wriite off. Most americans get $1000 per child. I was in the third highest tax bracket it the country. The reality is; you need to be celebrity rich or make under $137,500 for your total household income. Or your F@#$%!!!
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 22, 2012, 12:37:05 AM
An I still have to pay the tax on it
Post by: skywalker253 on December 22, 2012, 12:40:30 AM
Post by: jager on December 22, 2012, 02:57:44 AM
WTH...
Flame away..
Time, The story about your son and you family really says something....You are human...no offense....really! It's a much better approach than f-U I can do what I want.
You seem like someone I could talk to ... :dunno:
We're all frustrated with the situation...
I have not personally witnessed the Entiat situation , but i have witnessed other abuses.
There's no doubt that some ARE abusing AND poaching, but in reality..... treaty or not...whatever race,
There is a moral obligation to be stewards of the land, Which I hope that most will acknowledge, but sadly.......many do not.
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 22, 2012, 07:28:30 AM
In all seriousness, I'm glad there are a few more that have come to at least understand the situation from our point of view because that helps the situation more than you think. I can't tell you guys how tough it gets at times trying and doing the right thing and all you get in return is SH.. ON From both sides of the fence. I don't agree with what's occuring and I know its occuring but trying to prove it is difficult. I'm glad you guys are seeeing Time for who he really is and the man I know him as instead of the trickster (spilyay-coyote) or joker he perceives himself as on here.
I would like to see something done as much as the next guy such as updated management plans, updated game laws and gates for the wintering grounds. These are good ideas and a start in the right direction for preservation of the natural resources. I pray things can get done in my lifetime for the betterment of the animals and our future children who will inherit these causes.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 22, 2012, 08:23:12 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 26, 2012, 07:14:34 AM
Post by: ribka on December 26, 2012, 08:00:13 AM
I guess they need to bump up prices on the Discover pass in 2013. That seems to be a priority in the WDFW game management plan.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 27, 2012, 03:50:12 PM
Post by: idahoelkhunter300wby on December 29, 2012, 09:39:42 AM
I see gut piles all tha time :tup: :chuckle:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 29, 2012, 11:03:52 AM
Poached salmon an eggs are nasty :chuckle:
Post by: sled on December 29, 2012, 11:30:35 AM
Like I said they are only words guys, hate makes people blind, in all honesty I did not expect the reaction I got, cause of all the blind hate, but them stories are on the real. Dont believe everything you see on tha internet. Loldon't belive it guys. When all know the the real TIME as hairtrigger. We know who he really is! :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 29, 2012, 11:38:59 AM
Like I said they are only words guys, hate makes people blind, in all honesty I did not expect the reaction I got, cause of all the blind hate, but them stories are on the real. Dont believe everything you see on tha internet. Loldon't belive it guys. When all know the the real TIME as hairtrigger. We know who he really is! :stirthepot: :chuckle:
Yup
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 29, 2012, 11:44:14 AM
Post by: sled on December 29, 2012, 02:39:29 PM
Hahahaha!!! I was wondering when some were going to figure it out!!! What's wrong with poaching......................eggs, I like my eggs served that way sometimes, as a matter of fact I'm going to go poach......................eggs right now, time for lunch! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:yeah.... Well funny thing is IM not as stupid as most of his comments are.
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 29, 2012, 03:23:38 PM
Stupider :chuckle:Hahahaha!!! I was wondering when some were going to figure it out!!! What's wrong with poaching......................eggs, I like my eggs served that way sometimes, as a matter of fact I'm going to go poach......................eggs right now, time for lunch! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:yeah.... Well funny thing is IM not as stupid as most of his comments are.
Post by: sled on December 29, 2012, 03:28:50 PM
:chuckle:Stupider :chuckle:Hahahaha!!! I was wondering when some were going to figure it out!!! What's wrong with poaching......................eggs, I like my eggs served that way sometimes, as a matter of fact I'm going to go poach......................eggs right now, time for lunch! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:yeah.... Well funny thing is IM not as stupid as most of his comments are.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on December 29, 2012, 06:14:47 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on December 29, 2012, 06:35:08 PM
Post by: jackelope on December 29, 2012, 08:49:04 PM
:tup:
Post by: Time Immemorial on December 29, 2012, 10:57:03 PM