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Other Activities => Trapping => Topic started by: Carp Commander on December 23, 2012, 10:15:30 AM


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Title: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on December 23, 2012, 10:15:30 AM
 I started using colony sets for he first time this year. I built them with 2x4 mesh, 14 guage wire. My colony traps are 6x6, 36 inches long. I am trapping a canal ditch and it is full of rats. I set fifteen colony traps in the ditch and have in two days not cuaght a single rat. I am a little worried that I should have went with 1x2 mesh but I couldn't find it at any local hardware stores and I couldn't imagine a rat being able to make it through the 2x4 mesh. The first day I put them out I was spooking rats out of dens in the bank so I know its not because of the lack of critters.

Can any would offer up some advise on this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on December 23, 2012, 10:26:31 AM
hi,
i built mine out of 1 X 2  or 1x1 welded wire. I buy it in 48" rolls and cut it so I get a 22" and 24" long colony each cut.  Work great. Look on U tube and you can see some.  Where are you setting the traps...they need to be in the runs or entrances to den.  i will be headed to Walla Walla in a couple of days if you need any more info
Darryl
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on December 23, 2012, 10:30:14 AM
I am setting them in runs and den entrances. Because of heavy grass and silty bottom the runs are not always that easy to make out but the den holes are. Im confident about the technique but concerned with the trap design.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on December 23, 2012, 10:43:21 AM
36" is definetly overkill and maybe they are getting out of the 2" wire.  It has too much flex. Not frozen there yet?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on December 23, 2012, 12:53:48 PM
I was afraid that "settling" for available wire was going to bite me in the butt! I have since found 1x2 inch mesh, 14 gauge cage wire and I can tell the difference. Nothing is frozen here. It is getting into the high 20's at night but we are having 40 degree day time temps.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on December 23, 2012, 01:18:02 PM
Cool hope it stays that way will set a few traps while visiting my daughter next week
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 23, 2012, 06:09:32 PM
2x4 wire will slow the rats down but not hold them, they can get out of 2x2 wire mesh. 1x2 is the smallest to go with. Bleyhls farm supply in Pasco has the wire you need. I used to live in Pasco and that is the only place in the tri-cities are that carries it.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on December 23, 2012, 08:08:31 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions. Are you guys dying the colonies? Or does the shine not bother rats?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 23, 2012, 08:36:24 PM
After a week in the water the shine goes away, becomes a dark grey.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 01, 2013, 12:42:36 PM
Since starting this thread I have remade all my colony traps. Thanks again for all the advise! I remade them with 14 gauge, 1x2 inch mesh, 24 inches long. I set them yesterday and ran this morning. I had 16 traps in and caught 11 muskrats, all of which appear to be large to extra large. I'm happy with the 11 of 16 ratio but here's the kicker. I caught all 11 in just 4 traps. Again 11 out of 4 is good but 4 out of 16 isn't, at least I don't think so. Is this a typical catch ratio for colony sets?

Tried several times to load a photo with out sauces. Will try to get a picture posted soon.

Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 01, 2013, 12:50:49 PM
With out "success"! Spell check got me again.

Still having trouble with the photo. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 70sdiver on January 01, 2013, 01:01:42 PM
hey im in the tri-cities also.Shiney wire wont matter on the colonies.Have you buikt ant beaver cages yet?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 01, 2013, 01:12:11 PM
Working on a swim through but haven't finished yet.

Since I am just getting back into trapping and having to relearn everything here in the great republic of Washington, I am easing into it with colony, mink and coon. Easier on the pocket book which keeps the wife happy.

I am running with two cage traps for coon, two cage traps for mink and 20 colony traps for rats. Once I get the swim through done and tested, I will try and mass produce through the summer for next fall. I have some fantastic beaver areas and it's killing me I can't use steel!

Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 01, 2013, 04:01:19 PM
Colony Traps Photo
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 01, 2013, 05:07:42 PM
looks like its working for you nowv
Darryl
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 01, 2013, 05:14:26 PM
What price you getting for them things, do you have to skin them?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 01, 2013, 05:15:44 PM
Well I'd take 11 any day of the week! Are you setting them in runs or in front of den holes? I'm struggling with the rats right now.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 01, 2013, 08:33:27 PM
Yeah, "Boss .300 winmag" they all get skinned, fleshed, stretched and dried for the fur market.

I have sets in den holes, runs at pinch points and a couple of blind culverts. The producers were all at den holes. The dens are relatively hard to find because of a very silty bottom and undercut bank with heavy over lapping grass. If I can dial in on more dens and get to a 40% to 50% ratio of traps catching fur, this canal could be a big producer.

Either way I'm happy with 11 muskrats just wish I had more traps catching.

I'm thinking about trying bait on a bench or flat rock and covering all the entrances with colonies or building some of those floating deals with the holes cut in the middle. I've only used floats with 110's but we all no that going to happen.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Humptulips on January 01, 2013, 09:02:58 PM
I recently read about an Association fur sale in Michigan where the rats went for $17. Hard to believe and I don't know how many sold at that price but if they come even close to that you best stick with the rats and forget about the beaver. Wish I had some rats. 11 in 16 traps sounds pretty good to me.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Blue on January 02, 2013, 07:36:54 AM
Hey, I live in Kennewick. My son and I trap rats and beaver and so on. I didn't think there was anyone around here that trapped anymore. It's good to see that there is. If you need any help with colony traps just let me know. 
Thanks,  Scott
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Machias on January 02, 2013, 08:01:50 AM
Hey, I live in Kennewick. My son and I trap rats and beaver and so on. I didn't think there was anyone around here that trapped anymore. It's good to see that there is. If you need any help with colony traps just let me know. 
Thanks,  Scott

Nice, welcome aboard!!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 02, 2013, 11:57:39 AM
Sounds like there is a few of us here in the Tri-Cities. Maybe we should start a support group and examine why we still do it!

Just kidding! Thanks to everyone for helping the new kid in Washington get started again. Ran the line this morning and had 6 more rats. Made some adjustments and tried a bait set with the colonies that just looks ridiculous but it's killing me to see if it works.

Happy Trapping!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: trapperguy22 on January 02, 2013, 03:05:36 PM
Good job!!!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Humptulips on January 02, 2013, 08:20:27 PM
Hey, I live in Kennewick. My son and I trap rats and beaver and so on. I didn't think there was anyone around here that trapped anymore. It's good to see that there is. If you need any help with colony traps just let me know. 
Thanks,  Scott

More trappers out there then you think. We have 441 members in the Washington State Trappers Association
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 03, 2013, 03:51:31 PM
Not sure if anyone else has seen this release yet. Thought it was interesting enough to share. I was checking fur market trends today and came across this North American Fur Auctions, press release from December 20, 2012.

Sounds like good news and made the decision to stick with muskrats and raccoon's easier to make. I will leave the beaver alone for now.

More Money Than Last Year? 
By Herman Jansen, Managing Director

December 20, 2012

Yes, the cold weather in China and Russia has resulted in a very strong retail season opening. Our wish has come true. We all know that weather is one of the most important factors in our business.

The December major auctions of mink and fox in Scandinavia have created higher prices than last year, with the main buying from China. We strongly believe that this will also be the case for nearly all of our wild fur.

Muskrats will again be exceptionally strong, selling 100% at prices most likely higher than last February. Raccoon, which are in very strong demand, could potentially see substantial price increases. Trimming articles like Coyote and Red Fox are now expected to sell 100% for all desirable goods at higher prices than last February. The Sable/Marten sale recently held in Russia showed price increases over last year and this also will be true for our Can/Am Sable/Marten. Other articles like Fisher, Lynx, and Lynx Cat are all in strong demand.

Chinese and Russian visa application requests are well ahead of last year at this time and buyer hotel reservations for our February sale are in full swing. We expect to exceed last year’s record breaking attendance of 500.

Market conditions are definitely in favour of our producers and you can expect another well deserved, strong February sale with nearly all articles selling at higher prices than last year, with 100% clearances. Truly a Christmas wish come true.

Our very best wishes for Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 03, 2013, 04:51:16 PM
HOT DAMN!!!!!!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 70sdiver on January 03, 2013, 05:44:05 PM
I think were in for some good prices.Ive got 5 coyotes hope they hit the 60.00 mark.I got close last year with my 3 good ones bringing a 53.25 avg.had 4 late season dogs that were really ratty that I still averages 19.00 on.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 03, 2013, 06:06:55 PM
I certainly hope we get good prices. I am putting a ton of effort into fur preparation with all my rats. That first group of eleven I got in my colonies all averaged XXL with 2 at XXXL, so they should take high end. One of them measured 20 inches!

I am not planning on quitting my day job but it will go a long way towards the purchase of MORE TRAPS!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Blue on January 03, 2013, 08:42:40 PM
How many rats are you up to now? Do you have any mink or beaver?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 04, 2013, 08:07:18 AM
I got 18 in three days out of my colony line. I'm not trying for beaver just muskrat, coon and mink. Haven't connected on any mink yet. The farm cats keep getting into them. My line is pulled right now until this evening. I will trap through Monday and I have made some floaters for mink, hoping that will keep the cats out. Looks like the weather is going to warm up a little next week so I will put some effort into coon sets as well.

 
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Blue on January 04, 2013, 04:46:53 PM
Looks like you are off to a good start on the rats. Good luck with the mink and coon.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: UrbanTrapper on January 05, 2013, 10:33:37 PM
Have you tried 8 x 8 cages down near the waterline for mink?  I wouldn't think farm cats would go in an 8 x 8.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 06, 2013, 10:55:02 AM
I catch house cats in 7x7 havahart all the time.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 06, 2013, 11:01:35 AM
2x4 wire will slow the rats down but not hold them, they can get out of 2x2 wire mesh. 1x2 is the smallest to go with. Bleyhls farm supply in Pasco has the wire you need. I used to live in Pasco and that is the only place in the tri-cities are that carries it.

 :yeah:

2x2 is a good way to release the little ones and keep the bigger ones.  I have a colony made with 2x2 that usually has only big 'rats and one or two caught around the hips that almost wiggled out. 1x2 is great and it's lighter to carry and easier to fit gloved fingers in  :twocents:
Title: My new floater
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 03:29:40 PM
I'm getting the hang of these colonies, caught 7 more muskrats this morning. Got a cottentail rabbit as a bonus. He must have been suicidal cause he just stood there and now he is diner.

Tried my hand at a floater. It took two but I expected more. Are you guys putting top covers on them?

Some photos to follow!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 03:31:43 PM
The new floater!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 06, 2013, 03:32:44 PM
The floating colonies work better in the spring when used with rat gland lure, you should take a high percentage of males at that time.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 03:33:33 PM
todays catch
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 06, 2013, 03:34:10 PM
Looks like a good trap.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 03:38:46 PM
Thanks pnwmntmn, that's good to know! I'll keep using this one and try different baits. It seems to be a good trap. My son asked what would keep them from going over the railling. I'm not sure they wont but I know of two that didn't. I'll make another one this week with a top on it and compare the results.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 06, 2013, 03:50:09 PM
Hmmmmm......... I think I'll make a couple of those and try them. Thanks for the posting the pic! What are the dimensions?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 06, 2013, 03:57:58 PM
24" square, 4-5" hole in the center. 30" tall?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 05:17:07 PM
Yeah it's 24" squared with a 6" hole in the middle. The bottom is 20" deep and the side railing is 6" high. I used the same design as a colony trap 6x6 for the entrances. It's baited with apple and potato. The canal it's setting in is full of muskrats and I had high hopes. Still wonder if a top cover would help.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 06, 2013, 05:33:54 PM
Top cover will help. You can put long grass over the top or burlap rats like something over there head to protect them from hawks.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 06, 2013, 06:06:42 PM
Hey 3nails, I saw on the scoreboard that your doing well with mink. Any tips you can spare? I am setting them in the grass tunnels on the under cut of the banks. I am using muskrat scraps and Caven's mink master for bait. I haven't scored on a single one yet.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 06, 2013, 06:36:39 PM
I seem to do best for mink on fringe muskrat habitat. Right where it transitions to brushy, woodsy, rooty areas. We've been letting quite a few go that aren't really big. I just found a new spot I believe will be great so we are hoping to pull out some big males. We throw a whole muskrat carcass in the back and tie it in. No scents, the cages reak of mink on their own. I put the trap on the edge of the water with the opening in about an inch of water. I caught my biggest mink ever this year crammed into a colony trap. He barely fit!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 07, 2013, 12:22:18 PM
So apparently all you have to do to catch a mink is ask 3nails for some tips the night before you run your line. Got my 1st of the season this morning in a 17x17 trap, baited for coon!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Machias on January 07, 2013, 06:54:58 PM
Wohoo, nice job, congrats!!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 08, 2013, 09:18:52 AM
so I was curious if 18 by 18 would be large enough for the floater?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 08, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
I would think so but the one I showed is my first. I don't see why 18x18 wouldn't work. I have even considered building some smaller, maybe the same size as a colony plus a few extra inches at the door for them to crawl up on.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 11, 2013, 12:14:08 PM
I am planning on putting out my colony line tomorrow but do to a scheduling issue I may not be able to check them Sunday. The temps. are low and the water is nice and cold.

Any thoughts on how long the fur will stay good? I know it's legal but I won't risk loosing good fur!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 11, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
With the current temps and conditions There should be no problem leaving the fur until Sunday.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 70sdiver on January 11, 2013, 04:36:41 PM
Only problem I've had on two day checks is coon and mink tearing the muskrat to shreds. I had 5 rats ruined last year.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 11, 2013, 05:22:31 PM
Only problem I've had on two day checks is coon and mink tearing the muskrat to shreds. I had 5 rats ruined last year.
How did they get at them in the cage?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Jonathan_S on January 11, 2013, 05:27:22 PM
Only problem I've had on two day checks is coon and mink tearing the muskrat to shreds. I had 5 rats ruined last year.

So make a set out of that chewed rat(s) and catch a coon.   :tup:  Make bottom edge sets and soon you'll have the mink.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 70sdiver on January 11, 2013, 05:36:41 PM
this happened in very shallow water just over 6" barley enough to cover the trap.I did catch the coon but not the mink lol.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Humptulips on January 11, 2013, 07:24:26 PM
I am planning on putting out my colony line tomorrow but do to a scheduling issue I may not be able to check them Sunday. The temps. are low and the water is nice and cold.

Any thoughts on how long the fur will stay good? I know it's legal but I won't risk loosing good fur!

There was a time when I used to run my line once a week, mainly beaver and otter but once in a while a rat. I never lost anything to spoilage. It has to be underwater though. Even had stuff in traps up to 10 days because of high water. It was close but I pelted them too with a few minor slips.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 12, 2013, 04:36:00 PM
I didn't want to start another thread for a simple question; Are you guys painting your live traps? The bright silver makes them difficult to conceal.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 12, 2013, 06:18:16 PM
I paint all of mine brown but probably because I'm more concerned with theft. Water levels were so high lately I only had out 3 beaver 3 mink and 3 muskrat traps but had 4 beavers 1 mink and 5 rats! :)
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 12, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
You had a double on beaver? in a cage?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 12, 2013, 08:35:51 PM
 No, the beaver were in two checks. I believe I did see a pic on here of someone who had a triple of beaver in a colony style beaver trap though. :dunno:
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Bigshooter on January 12, 2013, 09:46:50 PM
Trapperguy22 caught 3 beavers in a trap a couple years ago. There is a pic on here of it.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: UrbanTrapper on January 12, 2013, 09:47:49 PM
I paint my cages flat black.  If the black wears off the silver isn't bright anymore so no problem.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: trapperguy22 on January 13, 2013, 06:11:43 AM
Last year I had a triple and so far this year one double in my swim through a.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 13, 2013, 09:04:08 AM
How long are your swim thrus
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 21, 2013, 04:11:30 PM
Trapped a new section of the ditch this weekend with disappointing results! The current was stronger and the traps built up with weeds, clogging up the colony and making the doors ineffective.

Anyone else had this issue and more importantly, whats the fix?

I am thinking about making 7x24 inch fence, staked at each side and placed a few inches up stream from the colony to catch all the garbage!


Doug
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 21, 2013, 04:59:40 PM
had that issue in the past not sure there is an answer.  Maybe try your floaters.
Darryl
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 22, 2013, 02:13:46 PM
Just put a coulpe of stick in the bottom,upstream of the trap, off set from each other, and about a third of the way in from the edge of the trap door. This will catch most of the debris coming down the ditch.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 27, 2013, 10:46:27 AM
Numbers are dropping off and I don't know why.

First weekend 19, second weekend 8, third weekend 6, and this weekend I got 4 yesterday and 1 today.

I am moving the sets into different parts of the canal to avoid over trapping. Each weekend was in a new section of the ditch with just as much sign and almost the same conditions.

Did I just have a really good opening weekend and I am now starting to see a realistic average? Does anyone else keep a record on what their "traps out to rats caught ratio"?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: 3nails on January 27, 2013, 10:55:05 AM
Aaaaahhhhh.......... Wouldn't it suck if it was so easy? I'm scratching my head a bit right now too. I was catching most of my rats in den sets. Now I'm catching ALL of them in runs. I would like to lay all of them in one or the other but don't dare to. Has your floater been producing?
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: wildweeds on January 27, 2013, 11:17:05 AM
Hey clean out your inbox,just tried to send you a message.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 27, 2013, 11:50:48 AM
Wildweeds,

The in-box is cleaned!

3nails,

I hear ya! I guess that's why it's called trapping instead of catching. Den sets were money a few weeks ago and now nothing. I am catching all of mine in climb ups. Those areas where they come out of the water and feed.

The floater is not producing, at all. On it's maiden set it connected with 2. Since then it has been blank. I am trying different things, such as brushing up the top, baits and scents. I got frustrated with it yesterday when I found it empty but the climb up areas were covered in scat! I put a trail camera on it this morning, maybe that will offer some clues.

I guess if it were easy everyone would do it!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on January 27, 2013, 01:47:25 PM
My numbers may be dropping off a little but they sure are good looking pelts.
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: onetrapper on January 27, 2013, 02:59:24 PM
pretty soon Lenons gland lure should help
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: wildweeds on January 27, 2013, 05:17:06 PM
Sorry Carp commander,the inbox comment was directed at 3 nails,he got his cleaned out too!
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: UrbanTrapper on February 01, 2013, 10:48:06 AM
Aaaaahhhhh.......... Wouldn't it suck if it was so easy? I'm scratching my head a bit right now too. I was catching most of my rats in den sets. Now I'm catching ALL of them in runs. I would like to lay all of them in one or the other but don't dare to. Has your floater been producing?
Try some 12 x 12 to 8 x 8 cages baited with sliced apples on the mud banks right next to the water under bridges.  Put a couple of apple pieces in the water and near the trap entrance so they get the idea.  I think the rats can smell the apples well and they feel comfortable coming out of the water under bridges. 
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Carp Commander on February 03, 2013, 03:20:49 PM
I am truly struggling now. For some reason my numbers have seriously dropped off. I moved to bigger water but its too deep to walk in a lot of places and to small for a boat. If I could figure out the floaters and baited dry baited sets I think I would be back into them.

WAUrbanTrapper,

The 12x12 and 8x8 traps you are referring to are they colony traps or live traps? I haven't tried setting traps on the dry ground before.

Doug
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Hannibal on February 03, 2013, 09:44:15 PM
using colony cage traps for muskrat trapping 101. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1arX-PSZzg#ws)

this might help
Title: Re: Need help with colony sets
Post by: Hannibal on February 03, 2013, 09:53:29 PM
thee nails call me i have beaver for oyu
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