Post by: Northway on January 11, 2013, 10:56:56 AM
I've been looking around for a gun that has a good balance between power/weight/ease of use that I won't mind carrying in the backcountry for up to a week at a time.
There have been a few models that I have considered, but a former Alaskan at Wade's brought the Glock 20 10mm compensated model to my attention and told me it has a bit of a cult following up in Alaska. I have medium sized hands, which seemed fine for the gun when I fondled it at the shop, but I'll have to test one to be sure. This is the first time someone has recommended that gun to me, so I'm hoping to get some additional opinions. I'm not nearly as gun savvy as most of you who post here, so the highly technical stuff will probably be over my head.
Thanks in advance for any responses.
Post by: jackelope on January 11, 2013, 11:07:12 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 11, 2013, 11:40:50 AM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on January 11, 2013, 11:50:29 AM
Post by: bowhunter74 on January 11, 2013, 12:22:22 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 11, 2013, 12:46:58 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 11, 2013, 02:06:42 PM
I have had 8-10 or so of them and the SF one i have now is my go to pistol.
With 16 rounds on tap and using full power loads, it is THE back country hand gun.
Do NOT get the ported one unless you are never going to shoot it with out ear protect on, BTDT.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 11, 2013, 04:01:53 PM
Post by: yorketransport on January 11, 2013, 05:06:22 PM
I've had the G 20 and 29, but sold them both. They have all the advantages of any other Glock, and all of the disadvantages as well. If you can comfortably wrap your hand around them, they can be great guns. For me, they never pointed as well as a revolver or 1911. I didn't like the unsupported chamber on the Glock. That's easy to fix with a replacement barrel though. I was never happy with how well they shot when compared to a revolver. The 10mm, while not a lowball caliber by any means, is hardly the ultimate bear stopper. With the heavy loads available it can certainly put a serious hurt on whatever is out there, but nothing that a 41, 44, 45colt or other large caliber revolver couldn't accomplish with ease.
Once you get the gun and 16 rounds of ammo, it's starting get a little on the heavy side. I would rather go with a scandium/titanium revolver in 41 or 44 mag. 5 or six shots from a 41 or 44 will be every bit as effective as 16 from a 10mm.
I don't have anything against the G20, I just thought I'd share some of the reasons I've found not to carry the G20 as a woods gun.
Andrew
Post by: high country on January 11, 2013, 05:10:38 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 11, 2013, 05:16:09 PM
Post by: mkcj on January 11, 2013, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 11, 2013, 05:21:50 PM
As far as 10mm goes I love mine but it's not in a clock it's a Colt Delta Elite but it's a knock down round for sure :tup:
I would agree with that but Deltas are too pretty and are worth too much......;)
Post by: NW-GSP on January 11, 2013, 07:54:47 PM
I'll go against the grain here, just to offer a different opinion. :stirthepot:
I've had the G 20 and 29, but sold them both. They have all the advantages of any other Glock, and all of the disadvantages as well. If you can comfortably wrap your hand around them, they can be great guns. For me, they never pointed as well as a revolver or 1911. I didn't like the unsupported chamber on the Glock. That's easy to fix with a replacement barrel though. I was never happy with how well they shot when compared to a revolver. The 10mm, while not a lowball caliber by any means, is hardly the ultimate bear stopper. With the heavy loads available it can certainly put a serious hurt on whatever is out there, but nothing that a 41, 44, 45colt or other large caliber revolver couldn't accomplish with ease.
Once you get the gun and 16 rounds of ammo, it's starting get a little on the heavy side. I would rather go with a scandium/titanium revolver in 41 or 44 mag. 5 or six shots from a 41 or 44 will be every bit as effective as 16 from a 10mm.
I don't have anything against the G20, I just thought I'd share some of the reasons I've found not to carry the G20 as a woods gun.
Andrew
Every person I know that has a .44 mag carries in their pack while hunting cause it is so heavy. Everyone I know that has a g20 Carrie it on their hip
Post by: high country on January 11, 2013, 07:59:08 PM
I'll go against the grain here, just to offer a different opinion. :stirthepot:
I've had the G 20 and 29, but sold them both. They have all the advantages of any other Glock, and all of the disadvantages as well. If you can comfortably wrap your hand around them, they can be great guns. For me, they never pointed as well as a revolver or 1911. I didn't like the unsupported chamber on the Glock. That's easy to fix with a replacement barrel though. I was never happy with how well they shot when compared to a revolver. The 10mm, while not a lowball caliber by any means, is hardly the ultimate bear stopper. With the heavy loads available it can certainly put a serious hurt on whatever is out there, but nothing that a 41, 44, 45colt or other large caliber revolver couldn't accomplish with ease.
Once you get the gun and 16 rounds of ammo, it's starting get a little on the heavy side. I would rather go with a scandium/titanium revolver in 41 or 44 mag. 5 or six shots from a 41 or 44 will be every bit as effective as 16 from a 10mm.
I don't have anything against the G20, I just thought I'd share some of the reasons I've found not to carry the G20 as a woods gun.
Andrew
Every person I know that has a .44 mag carries in their pack while hunting cause it is so heavy. Everyone I know that has a g20 Carrie it on their hip
I Carry my 44 on my side or on my chest. It's a 329 pd and it was gods answer to revolvers for the woods.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 11, 2013, 08:14:03 PM
I'll go against the grain here, just to offer a different opinion. :stirthepot:
I've had the G 20 and 29, but sold them both. They have all the advantages of any other Glock, and all of the disadvantages as well. If you can comfortably wrap your hand around them, they can be great guns. For me, they never pointed as well as a revolver or 1911. I didn't like the unsupported chamber on the Glock. That's easy to fix with a replacement barrel though. I was never happy with how well they shot when compared to a revolver. The 10mm, while not a lowball caliber by any means, is hardly the ultimate bear stopper. With the heavy loads available it can certainly put a serious hurt on whatever is out there, but nothing that a 41, 44, 45colt or other large caliber revolver couldn't accomplish with ease.
Once you get the gun and 16 rounds of ammo, it's starting get a little on the heavy side. I would rather go with a scandium/titanium revolver in 41 or 44 mag. 5 or six shots from a 41 or 44 will be every bit as effective as 16 from a 10mm.
I don't have anything against the G20, I just thought I'd share some of the reasons I've found not to carry the G20 as a woods gun.
Andrew
The grip can definitely be a problem for some folks and that could be an issue. That being said I don't have a large hands by any means and I have no issues with point shooting the G20 from my SERPA Holster. I can get that first shot off fast and on target. (I agree on the 1911...1911's feel great to most people)
When I went to the heavier buffalo bore ammo I carry I did have to swap out barrels to get good accuracy (lone wolf barrel)...all other ammo had no issues in the stock barrel.
I agree the 10mm is hardly the "ultimate bear stopper"...but lets be honest no handgun fits that bill...including the 454 Casull or 500 Nitro.... For what we see in the Northwest (primarily black bear and cougars with the occasionally grizz) I think the 10mm is more than sufficient...albeit lower end... That being said there are some advantages gained going on the lower end (speed/accuracy/capacity....which is why I also carry the 9mm for ccw) ....5-6 shots from a .41 or .44 may be as effective if they are in the right spot.... I'm going to get 8 shots on target with the 10mm before I can get 5-6 with .41 or .44 and I will still have 8 more in reserve... I will take that any day.
If I am consistently in Grizzly country (particularly brown bear) then I would reconsider what I carry....but that just isn't the case for the areas I hunt in the lower 48. :twocents: Ultimately it's each to their own. Thanks for offering a different viewpoint.
Post by: NW-GSP on January 11, 2013, 09:35:33 PM
Compared to 6 shots?
Post by: 7mmstalker on January 11, 2013, 11:25:39 PM
For several years, I carried a 45 colt revolver on my hip when in bear country, those years were spent in Alaska.
The bears can be bigger, and they do like to take food from lesser creatures!
During nearly a decade filled with fishing and hunting, only one time did I feel the need to ready my weapon.
Surprised a cub (brownie) in a creek and it howled and ran off. Put down fishing pole and shouldered 12ga.- the "don't leave home without it" gun. Then the mama bear popped out of the bushes next to the creek, woofed, and beat feet, followed by two more cubs.
Many people say, always throw the heaviest bullet- that's why the .45 / 12ga combo worked for my peace of mind.
But, a bit more on topic, the Washington outdoors seems much less likely to offer a brown bear situation, so moving down in power to a 45acp seemed safe. Problem with the 45acp is, there are many better handgun loads for a "plan B" hunting weapon if your rifle isn't available, and you have to use what you have on hand.
So, back to a hi powered revolver, yes, and no.
For most, to be balanced and accurate, a large framed -heavy- revolver helps keep practice enjoyable and therefore supports a higher skill level with same. I've grown tired of lugging around a 4-5lbs revolver.
The next handgun, maybe the last, I get for all-around use, will be something like this:
I'm just saying from the people I have been in contact with. 16 rounds of 220 grain at 1200 fps at 800 ft lbs of energyHey 10mm fans, are there other commonly available pistols chambered in 10mm besides the excellent but somewhat rare Colt Delta Elite, or Glock?
Maybe a good pistol smith could build one on a 1911 style frame and one wouldn't be putting the "character" marks on a nice Colt.
I like the Glock, but prefer 1911 platform. The 10mm looks to be a great choice as a fight stopper. Isn't that what the round was originally developed for?
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 11, 2013, 11:36:58 PM
I can offer some insight, and some opinion.
For several years, I carried a 45 colt revolver on my hip when in bear country, those years were spent in Alaska.
The bears can be bigger, and they do like to take food from lesser creatures!
During nearly a decade filled with fishing and hunting, only one time did I feel the need to ready my weapon.
Surprised a cub (brownie) in a creek and it howled and ran off. Put down fishing pole and shouldered 12ga.- the "don't leave home without it" gun. Then the mama bear popped out of the bushes next to the creek, woofed, and beat feet, followed by two more cubs.
Many people say, always throw the heaviest bullet- that's why the .45 / 12ga combo worked for my peace of mind.
But, a bit more on topic, the Washington outdoors seems much less likely to offer a brown bear situation, so moving down in power to a 45acp seemed safe. Problem with the 45acp is, there are many better handgun loads for a "plan B" hunting weapon if your rifle isn't available, and you have to use what you have on hand.
So, back to a hi powered revolver, yes, and no.
For most, to be balanced and accurate, a large framed -heavy- revolver helps keep practice enjoyable and therefore supports a higher skill level with same. I've grown tired of lugging around a 4-5lbs revolver.
The next handgun, maybe the last, I get for all-around use, will be something like this:I'm just saying from the people I have been in contact with. 16 rounds of 220 grain at 1200 fps at 800 ft lbs of energyHey 10mm fans, are there other commonly available pistols chambered in 10mm besides the excellent but somewhat rare Colt Delta Elite, or Glock?
Maybe a good pistol smith could build one on a 1911 style frame and one wouldn't be putting the "character" marks on a nice Colt.
I like the Glock, but prefer 1911 platform. The 10mm looks to be a great choice as a fight stopper. Isn't that what the round was originally developed for?
Here you go:
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-10/ (http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-10/)
I think Wilson Combat makes one too
Post by: JoeE on January 11, 2013, 11:54:16 PM
Post by: deaner on January 12, 2013, 12:12:01 AM
Post by: high country on January 12, 2013, 07:15:56 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 12, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
Witness makes a 10mm that is pretty slick too.
I had an EAA Witness 10mm. It was a piece of junk. Jammed all the time. Sent it in for warrenty 2 times and it came back worse. :dunno:
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 08:00:02 AM
its a gun that i can use to send very large chunks of lead with good velocity at my target with confidence. isnt that what matters? at least for open carry.
Yep... That's why I like the G20. I can deliver 16 rounds on target in short order. I don't know much that will survive that.
Post by: high country on January 12, 2013, 08:34:45 AM
Witness makes a 10mm that is pretty slick too.
I had an EAA Witness 10mm. It was a piece of junk. Jammed all the time. Sent it in for warrenty 2 times and it came back worse. :dunno:
I had a witness in 45acp and hate myself for selling it...either I got a good one, or you got a bad one.
Post by: yorketransport on January 12, 2013, 08:43:02 AM
Hey 10mm fans, are there other commonly available pistols chambered in 10mm besides the excellent but somewhat rare Colt Delta Elite, or Glock?
Maybe a good pistol smith could build one on a 1911 style frame and one wouldn't be putting the "character" marks on a nice Colt.
I like the Glock, but prefer 1911 platform. The 10mm looks to be a great choice as a fight stopper. Isn't that what the round was originally developed for?
The Kimber Eclipse is a great gun, so are the Dan Wesson 1911s. I've had a 10mm Eclipse and a Dan Wesson CCBT, and Razor Back in 10mm. To me, they were better in every way than the Glock. They were more accurate, carried better, and pointed better for me. Of course there is the price issue with any 10mm 1911. Most of them start at around $1000.
The Glock is a good gun and a great combination of price, quality, firepower, and reliability. I just believe that there should be more emphasis on the effectiveness of the initial shot on target instead of the subsequent 15 shots. :twocents: If multiple targets are involved (like a herd of rabid chipmunks :chuckle:) the Glock would show an obvious advantage. In the event of black bear or cougar after you I would be concerned with having the most effective first shot possible. Everything after that is likely just noise.
Andrew
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 08:57:45 AM
Hey 10mm fans, are there other commonly available pistols chambered in 10mm besides the excellent but somewhat rare Colt Delta Elite, or Glock?
Maybe a good pistol smith could build one on a 1911 style frame and one wouldn't be putting the "character" marks on a nice Colt.
I like the Glock, but prefer 1911 platform. The 10mm looks to be a great choice as a fight stopper. Isn't that what the round was originally developed for?
The Kimber Eclipse is a great gun, so are the Dan Wesson 1911s. I've had a 10mm Eclipse and a Dan Wesson CCBT, and Razor Back in 10mm. To me, they were better in every way than the Glock. They were more accurate, carried better, and pointed better for me. Of course there is the price issue with any 10mm 1911. Most of them start at around $1000.
The Glock is a good gun and a great combination of price, quality, firepower, and reliability. I just believe that there should be more emphasis on the effectiveness of the initial shot on target instead of the subsequent 15 shots. :twocents: If multiple targets are involved (like a herd of rabid chipmunks :chuckle:) the Glock would show an obvious advantage. In the event of black bear or cougar after you I would be concerned with having the most effective first shot possible. Everything after that is likely just noise.
Andrew
I see no reason the first shot from the Glock can't be on target and effective. Unless you hit the animal in the brain/nervous system on that first shot it could keep coming regardless of what handgun round/platform you use.... That being the case I would rather have more rounds..just in case I have time to get them off. I think the Glock Qualities you mention is what makes it the best field carry gun for the lower 48. I would love to have one of those awesome Dan Wessons but I'd still carry my glock in the woods. :twocents:
And you never when you might run across a herd of rabid chipmunks.....When the zombie apocalypse happens you will be wishing you had that G20...just saying... :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on January 12, 2013, 09:53:59 AM
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-hunter.asp#.UPGhi2_Xajg (http://wilsoncombat.com/new/handgun-hunter.asp#.UPGhi2_Xajg)
I have a G20, but I have pretty good sized hands too.
Most of you fellers with dainty hands would want the G20SF, same in every way as the regular G20 but the grip is thinnner.
I'm not a Glock fanboy, but if someone makes a tool that works well and I can use it well then I'll get it.
Also I love that it's so easy to customize.
I've already converted it to a .40 S&W, takes 5 whole seconds to swap out.
Post by: high country on January 12, 2013, 10:06:27 AM
Post by: NW-GSP on January 12, 2013, 10:14:56 AM
Since we just rolled to 45's I like the Rowland, but muzzle flash is an issue. I rock 45 supers often in the bear backup rig. Thinking that you will get 16 rounds off is ludicrous.....unless you piss your pants and start flinging from 70 yards. I will spend an extra half second to get #1 off true.
I have had firearms training and am aware of what I am capable of. Will I get all 16 rounds off before a bear closed the distance to me NO! But you can bet that I will be unloading that pistol on that bear at point blank range while it is attacking me. You will have already spent all six of your shots.
You can not think that one shot is going to stop a charging bear. You can shoot a bear with a 300 win mag and still have it keep running.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 12, 2013, 11:04:20 AM
I would task us to start from the low ready with your choice of handgun, and see how many A zone hits you can make in 1.5 seconds form 7 yards out.
I'll try it later with my Glock 20 SF and report back.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
Since we just rolled to 45's I like the Rowland, but muzzle flash is an issue. I rock 45 supers often in the bear backup rig. Thinking that you will get 16 rounds off is ludicrous.....unless you piss your pants and start flinging from 70 yards. I will spend an extra half second to get #1 off true.
I have had firearms training and am aware of what I am capable of. Will I get all 16 rounds off before a bear closed the distance to me NO! But you can bet that I will be unloading that pistol on that bear at point blank range while it is attacking me. You will have already spent all six of your shots.
You can not think that one shot is going to stop a charging bear. You can shoot a bear with a 300 win mag and still have it keep running.
:yeah:
And every shot I take after the first shot will likely be faster and more accurate than consecutive shots that I would make with a big magnum six shooter.
Post by: NW-GSP on January 12, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
Since we just rolled to 45's I like the Rowland, but muzzle flash is an issue. I rock 45 supers often in the bear backup rig. Thinking that you will get 16 rounds off is ludicrous.....unless you piss your pants and start flinging from 70 yards. I will spend an extra half second to get #1 off true.
I have had firearms training and am aware of what I am capable of. Will I get all 16 rounds off before a bear closed the distance to me NO! But you can bet that I will be unloading that pistol on that bear at point blank range while it is attacking me. You will have already spent all six of your shots.
You can not think that one shot is going to stop a charging bear. You can shoot a bear with a 300 win mag and still have it keep running.
:yeah:
And every shot I take after the first shot will likely be faster and more accurate than consecutive shots that I would make with a big magnum six shooter.
I agree!
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2013, 12:53:49 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 12, 2013, 01:42:49 PM
Witness makes a 10mm that is pretty slick too.
I had an EAA Witness 10mm. It was a piece of junk. Jammed all the time. Sent it in for warrenty 2 times and it came back worse. :dunno:
I had a witness in 45acp and hate myself for selling it...either I got a good one, or you got a bad one.
I think I got a bad one. The EAA Witness reviews were very good on the full size ones. I had the compact. Brian Enos is supposed to be Mr. EAA if I remember right.
Post by: KFhunter on January 12, 2013, 02:36:16 PM
This is counter intuitive to shooting autos, where you cannot limp wrist them, you must allow the slide to operate a full cycle.
Post by: high country on January 12, 2013, 05:34:47 PM
Since we just rolled to 45's I like the Rowland, but muzzle flash is an issue. I rock 45 supers often in the bear backup rig. Thinking that you will get 16 rounds off is ludicrous.....unless you piss your pants and start flinging from 70 yards. I will spend an extra half second to get #1 off true.
I know someone who has dumped a brownie with a 10mm with one shot on the charge and jack brittingham has a brownie getting dumped by a 45win mag pistol with one hit.
If you have a pissed off sharp tooth you have enough time for one pretty decent chance at best.....unless your firearms training ranks you with bob munden, in which case.....what could you possibly need anything but a 45lc.
I have had firearms training and am aware of what I am capable of. Will I get all 16 rounds off before a bear closed the distance to me NO! But you can bet that I will be unloading that pistol on that bear at point blank range while it is attacking me. You will have already spent all six of your shots.
You can not think that one shot is going to stop a charging bear. You can shoot a bear with a 300 win mag and still have it keep running.
Post by: mountainman on January 12, 2013, 06:14:59 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2013, 06:20:29 PM
Have stopped 2 full on charges on blackbears, both with revolvers, both with one shot. One with a .44 magnum, the other with a 454 Casull. More important than if it is a Glock 10 or a revolver is making sure the first shot hits the mark. With the proper bullet, its end-game right there. :twocents:
You need to shoot a bigger rifle or stop carrying your breakfast around in your pack! :chuckle:
Did you recover either of the bullets used? I was just wondering on how each performed with frontal shots? Curious, I own both Chamberings. I'm a firm believer in big magnums and I eat a late breakfast. ;)
Post by: HuntandFish on January 12, 2013, 06:24:53 PM
And on top of that a .44mag is a great back up hunting weapon if something should happen to your primary weapon (which I unfortunately have had happen twice to me now...). Which is a vastly larger likelyhood for the use of a backcountry gun. I think that the more rounds thing comes down to a subconscious thing more than a reality thing. .44mag will do substantially more damage and that's all that counts when a threat from an animal will be immediate and close. :twocents:
Thanks,
H&F
Post by: mountainman on January 12, 2013, 06:43:55 PM
It's fairly simple to me. I have a XD 45 (13rnds) that I carry fishing and other places where 2 legged creatures that may shoot back and be in groups may come in play. However I just got a 329pd for the very reason of this topic, a back country/backup gun. I think those that run through the scenario of a charging bear/attack and picture yourself being able to shoot more than 6 rounds at the animal may need a little more real life experience, or a little more self control. I hope no one will be shooting a bear (out of season/with out a tag) without it actually in the act of attacking you not just barking and grunting trying to intimidate you. Once I have determined it is a real threat the bear will be at less than 7yrds, and if the first shot of .44mag does not stop the animal I will have 5 more shots to shoot the thing while we are wrestling on the ground (assuming it hasn't knocked the gun out of my control). This is why I choose to carry the most powerful cartridge I can carry effectively. The 10mm to me is overkill for 2 legged threats and and under gunned for the scenario I pointed out above.
And on top of that a .44mag is a great back up hunting weapon if something should happen to your primary weapon (which I unfortunately have had happen twice to me now...). Which is a vastly larger likelyhood for the use of a backcountry gun. I think that the more rounds thing comes down to a subconscious thing more than a reality thing. .44mag will do substantially more damage and that's all that counts when a threat from an animal will be immediate and close. :twocents:
Thanks,
H&F
Well said!
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 06:54:50 PM
I think those that run through the scenario of a charging bear/attack and picture yourself being able to shoot more than 6 rounds at the animal may need a little more real life experience, or a little more self control. I hope no one will be shooting a bear (out of season/with out a tag) without it actually in the act of attacking you not just barking and grunting trying to intimidate you. Once I have determined it is a real threat the bear will be at less than 7yrds, and if the first shot of .44mag does not stop the animal I will have 5 more shots to shoot the thing while we are wrestling on the ground (assuming it hasn't knocked the gun out of my control). This is why I choose to carry the most powerful cartridge I can carry effectively. The 10mm to me is overkill for 2 legged threats and and under gunned for the scenario I pointed out above.
Thanks,
H&F
Sorry but if a bear is within 20 yards of me and charging at me at full tilt it's going to start eating bullets. I understand it could be a bluff charge (as I have had a bear bluff charge me when I wasn't carrying and it came from 40 yards to 10 yards in short order before stopping). However, I didn't know he was bluff charging until he left. If I had a gun I definitely would have shot that bear and wouldn't have second guessed it. You may not feel it's a threat until it's within 7 yards....however a bear that is actually going to attack you is a threat whether its at 7 yards or 15 yards so I would rather get an early start if it is threatening me. I owe it to my kids. In that situation I could care less about the life of a single bear. I'm not taking any chances. :twocents:
In 20 yards and less I can get at least six accurate shots off with a 10mm and still have plenty in reserve for when he is chewing on me (assuming I am even able to retain my weapon.):twocents:
Post by: yorketransport on January 12, 2013, 07:31:39 PM
When I look at the 10mm from the perspective of a revolver guy (which I would classify myself as) all I can think of is that the 10mm is just a halfway point between the 357 and 41 Mag. Even a 44 Mag isn't that spectacular in the world of hunting revolvers any more. A 475 Linbaugh or 500 JRH is where you get into the serious calibers. I've never seen the need for more than maybe 2 shots with a handgun. But then I do most of my hunting with a large (rifle) caliber single shot pistol which makes a lot of peoples rifles look pretty small bore. :chuckle:
For the semi auto lovers out there the pool of serious calibers is pretty limited. A hot 10mm is pretty sedate compared to a standard 44 mag, but it's hot stuff compared to a standard 45 ACP. That's why somebody needs to design a high capacity 45 Win Mag. Or they just need to make a lite weight version of the Wildey in 475 Wildey mag! :tup:
Andrew
Post by: HuntandFish on January 12, 2013, 08:06:01 PM
It is great to think about all the lead you will be throwing at this animal (to compensate for a lack of energy from a larger caliber) but its not a reality in 99% of the situations.
Again just my :twocents:
Thanks,
H&F
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 09:00:43 PM
DBHAWTHORNE, not trying to be that guy but I am going to reference what I said above, you have to get real with the situation at hand. You are going to shoot off 6 well placed shots in 1.36 seconds? (assuming 30mph run speed) I don't think so. And most bear encounters are going to happen allot closer than 60feet away, as it is surprise that triggers most attacks, just sayin.
It is great to think about all the lead you will be throwing at this animal (to compensate for a lack of energy from a larger caliber) but its not a reality in 99% of the situations.
Again just my :twocents:
Thanks,
H&F
Certainly in a situation where I can only get off one marginal shot the bigger the caliber the better. I don't think there is any disputing that and I'm not trying to make such a claim. If I hit them in the brain/nervous system with the 10mm it's going down..in other words...no need for the bigger bullet. However, if I miss the brain/nervous system then it comes down to the size, penetration and/or number of holes I can put in the threat (as even your choice of side arm isn't going to drop the animal absent a brain/nervous system hit).. The 10mm will have sufficient penetration (albeit...no argument that more is certainly better)...If I used size as my primary factor in a lower 48 backwoods carry gun then I would be carrying a .454 Casull or larger (as they make .454 Casull's in reasonable carry sizes). However there are more factors to that equation.....so "to get real with the situation at hand"... Here we go:
First the odds of me crossing a grizzly in the areas I hunt is low...very, very low. So in reality we are talking about a black bear, mountain lion, wolf, moose or bigfoot :chuckle:.. I know from a few personal experiences moose don't cut corners extremely well so pretty sure I can handle one of those as long as I have time to react). So now we are down to bigfoot bear, lion and wolf. I have never seen a bigfoot but I am assuming as a fellow primate who diverged from us on the evolutionary chain :chuckle:.. he is probably just the size of a very large man... As was stated the 10mm is probably overkill for a normal man so it's probably perfectly ideal for a bigfoot....so what do we have next.... I think there is no argument that a 10mm is sufficient for a lion/wolf...(speaking of which... lets say by some rare instance you faced a pack of wolves... would you rather have my 10mm with 16 or a six shooter??... I know what I would choose)
So now we are back to black bears being the most realistic threat that I may face..... Plenty of black bear have been hunted and killed with a 10mm for me to know for a fact that it is more than sufficient to get the job done effectively with only one vital shot. (Granted with a bigger bullet and equal or more penetration it would/could bleed out faster.) In 1.36 seconds (assuming my gun is holstered and I make a clean draw) I can get off at least two well placed shots with my 10mm. With a .44 mag or larger I am only going to get off one (you might get more but I can't). If I already have the gun at the ready I am going to get off 3-4 with the 10mm and maybe 2 with that .44 mag or larger (and not even confident that second one would be on target). Another thing you are assuming is that the animal solidly connects on it's charge. In reality my training is going to take over and I am going to be shooting and laterally moving... that being the case.. It is possible the bear will miss me and give me an opportunity to put more rounds into him.
On thing I know from experience.. I can get off three accurate rounds from my 10mm before I can get off my second accurate round with the .44mag.
I probably won't be doing any reloading if a bear is chewing on me.. but if I am able to retain my weapon I will have more hot rounds to unload into that bear at point blank range than I would if I was carrying a six shooter.
The bottom line is this... no matter how much I train I am counting on some misses in this type of situation...that being the case... I choose capacity and manageability in a sufficient package over additional power provided by a larger round.
If by some rare instance I ran across a grizzly and had issues I would certainly be wishing for a larger caliber...but then I would feel that way no matter what handgun I was carrying... That being said.... the 10mm can and will do the job if necessary... but certainly not the ideal choice in regular grizz country.... If I start seeing grizzlies then I will definitely step up the firepower.
The bottom line... unless you simply prefer a six shooter..or you are regularly going into grizzly country.... the 10mm is the perfect backwoods carry gun for the Pacific Northwest. :twocents:
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 09:16:55 PM
Post by: HuntandFish on January 12, 2013, 10:01:14 PM
I believe the 10mm to be a formidable caliber no matter the animal, it is just my opinion that the .44mag is superior in many circumstances in the back country(as per thread topic), not just in a self defense scenario (which is unlikely). You seem very confident and competent with your weapon, and at the end of the day that is what truly matters. But I do believe that when an attack is over wether you are dead or alive, in most circumstance you will not be counting more than 6 empty brass. And yes I hunt in wolf country and I think if I shot 5 (say I miss once, not likely ;)) those smart ass wolves will re group to reconcider there options and allow me to reload.
Plus you can't beat the long range shooting accuracy and ballistics of the 44mag. for any type of long range situation you may find yourself involved with, like say a bigfoot...
Also thanks for sharing your woods experience, sounds like a real fun job :tup:
Thanks,
H&F
Post by: Karl Blanchard on January 12, 2013, 10:01:26 PM
Post by: actionshooter on January 12, 2013, 10:07:11 PM
You seem very confident and competent with your weapon, and at the end of the day that is what truly matters.
This makes more sense that comparing ballistics of all the options out there.
Confidently drawing the weapon and hitting your target QUICKLY is where its at.
Post by: 7mmstalker on January 12, 2013, 10:07:49 PM
However, I find myself wondering............
If you encounter Miss Bigfoot, would none of you woodsman at least make an attempt to domesticate the beast?
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 10:16:41 PM
DBHAWTHORNE, I like the break down on the predatory species first off :chuckle: I am unsure of how I might handle a Bigfoot encounter, may shoot if seen at any distance....
I believe the 10mm to be a formidable caliber no matter the animal, it is just my opinion that the .44mag is superior in many circumstances in the back country(as per thread topic), not just in a self defense scenario (which is unlikely). You seem very confident and competent with your weapon, and at the end of the day that is what truly matters. But I do believe that when an attack is over wether you are dead or alive, in most circumstance you will not be counting more than 6 empty brass. And yes I hunt in wolf country and I think if I shot 5 (say I miss once, not likely ;)) those smart ass wolves will re group to reconcider there options and allow me to reload.
Plus you can't beat the long range shooting accuracy and ballistics of the 44mag. for any type of long range situation you may find yourself involved with, like say a bigfoot...
Also thanks for sharing your woods experience, sounds like a real fun job :tup:
Thanks,
H&F
Thought you might like the bigfoot reference. :chuckle:
I like the .44 Magnum... Especially from a backup hunting weapon standpoint as you mentioned before.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 12, 2013, 10:18:16 PM
This thread is all over the place, sorry for my part in that.
However, I find myself wondering............
If you encounter Miss Bigfoot, would none of you woodsman at least make an attempt to domesticate the beast?
That would be like Beauty and the Beast in reverse... :chuckle:
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 12, 2013, 11:35:49 PM
This thread is all over the place, sorry for my part in that.
However, I find myself wondering............
If you encounter Miss Bigfoot, would none of you woodsman at least make an attempt to domesticate the beast?
I would have a go at her! :tree1:
Post by: Dan-o on January 12, 2013, 11:47:48 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 13, 2013, 12:20:10 AM
Big Foot, really? >:( >:( >:( ;) >:(
If a guy could sack Miss Bigfoot. :kneel:
Post by: high country on January 13, 2013, 07:40:08 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 13, 2013, 08:42:03 AM
Someone should tell the PH's in Africa to put down the 416's and grab some ar 10's. Obviously well placed large bullets are not the answer, and volume shooting is the answer.......especially here in Wa where we have to wonder if we might startle that massive 175 pound man eating bear......laffin.
"especially here in Wa where we have to wonder if we might startle that massive 175 pound man eating bear"
and don't forget big foot.
:chuckle:
Not just volume shooting.. We are talking about well placed rounds from a cartdridge that is reasonable for the threat (and distances to threat) that you may face in this part of the country. The 10mm fits that bill perfectly (unless you are in areas where grizzly frequent).. that being the case...I think volume gives you the edge.... Lets relate it to concealed carry. The 9mm is considered a reasonable man stopper (as the 10mm can be reasonably considered a black bear round within 50 yards..and certainly at 10 yards and under)... Now.... if you were to get in a gun fight with a bad dude... Would you rather be holding the 9mm with 15+ rounds or a .357 magnum revolver (legendary man stopper) with six rounds? (granted I would rather be carrying a .45 ACP with 15-16 rounds but that isn't reasonable for most of us to conceal carry) :twocents:
Post by: high country on January 13, 2013, 10:22:33 AM
Go to any village in Alaska and ask what they use to kill dinner.....the results might surprise you.
Keep a clean camp and situational awareness on high, respect the space of bears and don't go questioning strangers in the woods......you will be fine with a fishing pole for defense.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 13, 2013, 10:27:33 AM
I recall watching someone try and dispatch a domestic pig with a 44 mag at 15 yards on a stationary pig, and miss due to flinching.
While some will tout there abilities with the magnums, their in the field use is the polar opposite.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 13, 2013, 10:58:41 AM
Well, it is nice to know someone here has tested their recovery time and their ability to put a bullet where it needs to go.
I recall watching someone try and dispatch a domestic pig with a 44 mag at 15 yards on a stationary pig, and miss due to flinching.
While some will tout there abilities with the magnums, their in the field use is the polar opposite.
Accualy turbo, it was at about 22 yards slighly moving left to right and hit him in the Jaw joint. The quick follow up put him down. If I remember right, you shot yours first at 10" off the end of the barrel with a Glock. You're getting old Jimmy!
I'll always say it like it was because when it comes to you and our time around each other, well lets just day. You were learning.
Post by: mountainman on January 13, 2013, 02:26:09 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 13, 2013, 02:36:49 PM
Would much prefer putting first shot on target for a quick stop, especially with a charging bear. Coming full tilt, even at 22 yards, does not leave room for a second, or at least, an accurate shot
I didn't realize a domestic pig was held in the same regards as a charging bear in your world. Hahahaha! :chuckle: :o It's a entertaining thought though. :tup:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 13, 2013, 02:41:49 PM
Who's turbo?Well, it is nice to know someone here has tested their recovery time and their ability to put a bullet where it needs to go.
I recall watching someone try and dispatch a domestic pig with a 44 mag at 15 yards on a stationary pig, and miss due to flinching.
While some will tout there abilities with the magnums, their in the field use is the polar opposite.
Accualy turbo, it was at about 22 yards slighly moving left to right and hit him in the Jaw joint. The quick follow up put him down. If I remember right, you shot yours first at 10" off the end of the barrel with a Glock. You're getting old Jimmy!
I'll always say it like it was because when it comes to you and our time around each other, well lets just day. You were learning.
Yes, I learned whom not to associate with.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 13, 2013, 02:54:30 PM
Post by: high country on January 13, 2013, 03:32:38 PM
Carry on.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 13, 2013, 03:38:19 PM
Sweet.....gonna need more popcorn.
Carry on.
Nope..😉The rest of my days tied up. By something that cute, slender and smells great.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 13, 2013, 03:59:41 PM
Coming full tilt, even at 22 yards, does not leave room for a second, or at least, an accurate shot
Speak for yourself. :chuckle: :brew:
Post by: mountainman on January 13, 2013, 05:49:13 PM
Post by: ellensburgpo on January 13, 2013, 05:58:37 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 13, 2013, 06:58:40 PM
Going sideways again..sheesh! :bash:
:chuckle:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 14, 2013, 01:03:42 AM
The Glock 20-10mm will be too much for those that don't practice.
To the OP, the G-20, 10mm is about the perfect back country handgun. It is my choice anytime I go into the back country when I can open carry.
Hard to beat 16 in the gun and 30 more in 2 spare mags in the belt pouch. Also in a pinch, you can, with due diligence, shoot 40S&W in the G-20.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 14, 2013, 01:43:59 AM
Just to clarify, the reality is if you cannot handle a Magnum handgun, you are going to be getting yourself in a world of hurt with a quickness. I guess I'll have to dig up the video of that flinched shot. If memory serves, the shooter fired 2-3 more rounds before finally connecting and hit the pig too far back and lost some shoulder meat in the process. Very poor marksmanship to say the least. My friend that owned the pigs wasn't too thrilled and I was told to never bring that guy around again.
The Glock 20-10mm will be too much for those that don't practice.
To the OP, the G-20, 10mm is about the perfect back country handgun. It is my choice anytime I go into the back country when I can open carry.
Hard to beat 16 in the gun and 30 more in 2 spare mags in the belt pouch. Also in a pinch, you can, with due diligence, shoot 40S&W in the G-20.
As always Jimmy, your off the mark and off tangent from reality yet again, just to clarify. :chuckle: My suggestion would be to grab some of those old man knee pads from that one man plumbing trailer deal and get to digging up some video because your memory has failed yet again. The only thing I have seen shot to far back is some of your deer and a bear, we both know how that turned out. :yike: Again, just to clarify. :tup:
How's that firearm safety/ training thing going? Back in the day I've been witness to some crazy crap concerning you and firearms. Still have one of those hats. :chuckle: come to think of it maybe a scar. >:( Just to clarify, it was your shotgun and my neck.
Post by: mountainman on January 14, 2013, 07:37:09 AM
To the op, my handgun of choice is the 329pd. Lightweight, powerfull enough, and quick into action.
Post by: sirmissalot on January 14, 2013, 07:58:31 AM
Heck with popcorn, need cheese and crackers...
To the op, my handgun of choice is the 329pd. Lightweight, powerfull enough, and quick into action.
That's my carry gun as well. Light, powerful and dependable. I can also shoot the head off a grouse with it.
It's too bad. I enjoy input from the 3 of you with your expert (no sarcasm) opinions, but it seems any thread you guys are involved in turns into a "mine's bigger" discussion. It's really getting old.
Post by: mountainman on January 14, 2013, 08:35:06 AM
Yes, an awesome gun. Plink with the 240"s, but whem in bear country load with 320 Hardcast, wide meplat loads at 1350 fps. Shoot thru a 3 ft pine tree with ease! :-)
Post by: Northway on January 14, 2013, 09:51:58 AM
Would anyone mind explaining the benefits of "swapping out barrels" on a gun? Is that meant to accomodate different bullets, or is it also a quality thing?
It would be great to end up with a gun that could theoretically provide protection against a brown bear, but it's not necessarily the primary concern. Only a small fraction of my time as of late has been spent in established griz country where sightings are a common occurence. After watching videos of bluff charges in dense vegetation, I have no expectation of getting more than a shot or two off if the gun is immediately handy. I would just hope to be able to discharge enough additional rounds to have an impact before my skull got crushed between its jaws.
Also, if I went with a ported option to try and reduce the kick, does it have a huge impact on how loud the discharge is?
Post by: high country on January 14, 2013, 10:28:14 AM
I run the 329pd 95% of the time and in fact I carry it as my hunting weapon occasionally for deer and bear. I have killed with a few different bullets and I am pleased with the results.
To compare a Wa griz to a brownie is to compare a semi to a Prius.....our bears are just not even in the same league.....at least the 200 or so that I have seen.
I really like the 10mm and am currently on the hunt for a 20sf for woods packing, but if I intend to purposely put myself close to a bear, I will take my 329 for sure. Yes it recoils more, yes my shot to shot time will be 1.5x that of the glock, and yes I will only have 6 shots....but I have not HAD to shoot anything more than twice with a 44 and one was a deer that I shot 20 years ago and I was not in the same league as I am today.
It won't matter which you choose, just become intimate with it and shoot it well, have nerves of steel, make that first shot your best shot and the rest is out of your control.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 14, 2013, 10:46:22 AM
Northway, ported guns do a good job of reducing muzzle flip and time to get back on target.......BUT, if you shoot one in failing light, you are screwed by the flash and may only be good for one shot....imagine someone blasting you with a camera in the dark while you focus on the camera, it's a bad deal. The noise is most defiantly louder to a dangerous level.....although in a defense situation, you will not care, but the flash will screw you.
I run the 329pd 95% of the time and in fact I carry it as my hunting weapon occasionally for deer and bear. I have killed with a few different bullets and I am pleased with the results.
To compare a Wa griz to a brownie is to compare a semi to a Prius.....our bears are just not even in the same league.....at least the 200 or so that I have seen.
I really like the 10mm and am currently on the hunt for a 20sf for woods packing, but if I intend to purposely put myself close to a bear, I will take my 329 for sure. Yes it recoils more, yes my shot to shot time will be 1.5x that of the glock, and yes I will only have 6 shots....but I have not HAD to shoot anything more than twice with a 44 and one was a deer that I shot 20 years ago and I was not in the same league as I am today.
It won't matter which you choose, just become intimate with it and shoot it well, have nerves of steel, make that first shot your best shot and the rest is out of your control.
:yeah:
Good perspective.
Post by: Northway on January 14, 2013, 01:45:24 PM
I think you'll find most of the responses regarding that weapon to scream awesomeness. The biggest gripe with Glocks is the grip size. I think if you pick up a Gen 4 with changeable back straps you will get more of a custom fit. I have a glock 22 and I would swap it in a heartbeat for a G20. I only ever carry it in the woods and I think the 10mm would be more fitting in that setting.
I think I'm going to wait to get my hands on a Gen 4. They said they were at least three months out at Wade's due to the increased demand, but hopefully I can find one somewhere else at a more reasonable price. They had a .45 Sf that is supposed to have a similar grip to the gen 4, and it seemed about right. They won't even quote MSRP in this market right now.
Some of the gun shops are so busy lately it's like going to the DMV.......
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 14, 2013, 02:15:14 PM
Would anyone mind explaining the benefits of "swapping out barrels" on a gun? Is that meant to accomodate different bullets, or is it also a quality thing?
On Glocks, it is generally accepted that chambers are looser on stock barrels and that the stock barrels have the feed ramp intruding on the chamber leading to what's called an unsupported chamber. In addition, Glock's polygonal rifling is not approved by Glock, IRRC, for shooting lead bullets, nor is it recommended as it is said to lead to increased tendency of barrel leading.
By swapping to an aftermarket barrel, you can get one with traditional rifling, which has less tendency to lead foul the barrel, a tighter chamber, and/or a fully supported chamber, which can reduce wear on brass (no Glock smiles) and/or support the use of hotter loads without concern for the unsupported chamber in stock Glock barrels.
Post by: bowhunter74 on January 14, 2013, 03:13:03 PM
Would anyone mind explaining the benefits of "swapping out barrels" on a gun? Is that meant to accomodate different bullets, or is it also a quality thing?
On Glocks, it is generally accepted that chambers are looser on stock barrels and that the stock barrels have the feed ramp intruding on the chamber leading to what's called an unsupported chamber. In addition, Glock's polygonal rifling is not approved by Glock, IRRC, for shooting lead bullets, nor is it recommended as it is said to lead to increased tendency of barrel leading.
By swapping to an aftermarket barrel, you can get one with traditional rifling, which has less tendency to lead foul the barrel, a tighter chamber, and/or a fully supported chamber, which can reduce wear on brass (no Glock smiles) and/or support the use of hotter loads without concern for the unsupported chamber in stock Glock barrels.
You can also get conversion barrels from KKM or Lone Wolf for around $100 that will allow you to shoot .40S&W or .357SIG out of your Glock 20. All you do is drop in the new barrel, load up your 10mm mags with the different caliber rounds and you are good to go. Just make sure you match up what rounds you have in the mag with the barrel you currently have in the gun if you are changing back and forth between different calibers at the range.
Post by: high country on January 14, 2013, 04:51:59 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 06:23:18 PM
The bear busting out 50 feet away will be on any hunter that doesn't know its coming and hasn't readied themselves.
It'll be gnawing on your face, or it'll have turned and you'll be looking at it's butt through your sights.
I'm with DB on this, that charging bear has until I can get it in my sights to turn, I won't shoot one in the rump that's running away unless it has bitten me or someone else.
I'd also like to add to DB's post that I'd rather not educate a bear either. One that has gotten away with charging a human and been rewarded for the effort (stringer of fish, cooler of lunch meat etc) will do it again and again - and eventually may take it further. I for one won't be doing any educating like this. If I got a stringer of fish on the beach and a blackie comes charging it's going to eat lead or turn. I'll be standing on the fish, and if it tries to take em from under my feet it'll be eating lead. Otherwise it'll do it again and again, and someone gonna get hurt by it.
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 06:33:44 PM
Would anyone mind explaining the benefits of "swapping out barrels" on a gun? Is that meant to accomodate different bullets, or is it also a quality thing?
On Glocks, it is generally accepted that chambers are looser on stock barrels and that the stock barrels have the feed ramp intruding on the chamber leading to what's called an unsupported chamber. In addition, Glock's polygonal rifling is not approved by Glock, IRRC, for shooting lead bullets, nor is it recommended as it is said to lead to increased tendency of barrel leading.
By swapping to an aftermarket barrel, you can get one with traditional rifling, which has less tendency to lead foul the barrel, a tighter chamber, and/or a fully supported chamber, which can reduce wear on brass (no Glock smiles) and/or support the use of hotter loads without concern for the unsupported chamber in stock Glock barrels.
You can also get conversion barrels from KKM or Lone Wolf for around $100 that will allow you to shoot .40S&W or .357SIG out of your Glock 20. All you do is drop in the new barrel, load up your 10mm mags with the different caliber rounds and you are good to go. Just make sure you match up what rounds you have in the mag with the barrel you currently have in the gun if you are changing back and forth between different calibers at the range.
Gotta match springs too - a stock Glock 20 10mm spring will cycle .40 S&W fine but the brass won't throw as far as it should. I use the stock glock spring for my lone wolf .40S&W conversion.
I had to upgrade the stock spring to shoot the heavy 10mm stuff, it's setup for the weaker FBI loads you mostly find off the shelves at sporting goods stores which isn't much of any difference than .40S&W
Post by: actionshooter on January 14, 2013, 06:51:03 PM
I found two at white elephant today.....I came home with the 20sf for $549.00 new with two hi cap mags.
Right on.... thats a good deal
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 14, 2013, 06:58:09 PM
I'd wager a glass of beer a bear can cover 75 - 100 yards before an average hunter can recognize the threat, commit to it, drop a backpack or bow or whatever else is being carried or in the way, lift their camo jacket, dig out the gun, fix whatever its hung up on, then draw and fire. I'd also wager a bet that most charges start from a lot closer, like 30 yards. I know some of you are better prepared than that, but still I bet it'll cover 50 yards if it took you by surprise and that is being generous.
The bear busting out 50 feet away will be on any hunter that doesn't know its coming and hasn't readied themselves.
It'll be gnawing on your face, or it'll have turned and you'll be looking at it's butt through your sights.
It depends on the situation. Every uncomfortable bear situation I have been faced with I would have had time to draw and shoot. I once took a sow and two cubs by surprise. The two cubs scurried up a tree and the Mom stood her ground and determined whether or not I was a threat. Had she started charging I would have already had my weapon at the ready (didn't have one on me at the time :chuckle:).
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 07:40:31 PM
I was just trying to iterate how fast a bear can bust through the brush, it get my pulse up every time :chuckle:
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 14, 2013, 07:50:29 PM
I was specifically thinking about you when I wrote that, so added the cavet "I know some of you are better prepared than that".
I was just trying to iterate how fast a bear can bust through the brush, it get my pulse up every time :chuckle:
We can all be taken by surprise. Once i shot a buck and as I was preparing to field dress it I had a doe almost flat out run me over. Fortunately for me it was a false charge :chuckle:. (not sure what had spooked her but had it been something intent on eating me I would have been done for)
Post by: high country on January 14, 2013, 10:14:17 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 14, 2013, 11:34:20 PM
Post by: FisherKing on January 15, 2013, 10:53:02 AM
Post by: 7mmstalker on January 15, 2013, 08:15:51 PM
I've been having a slow but steady growing urge for a 10mm. Been carrying a 44mag in the field, a 45acp in town. Maybe a 10 could do for both!
Post by: high country on January 15, 2013, 08:20:54 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 15, 2013, 08:26:57 PM
I am half tempted to mill my slide down.....it's as wide as my jet boat.
Do it, I would like to see it done. It would be way cool. 8)
Post by: Dan-o on January 16, 2013, 06:50:46 PM
Sportsman's Guide has 50 round drum mags for your glocks in their new catalog.
Post by: high country on January 16, 2013, 07:09:59 PM
Post by: NW-GSP on January 16, 2013, 08:09:48 PM
http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7223510 (http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7223510)
Post by: bear hunter on January 17, 2013, 11:10:00 AM