Post by: denali on January 14, 2013, 04:43:41 PM
Capital Press
A lawmaker from Eastern Washington says if wolves are so welcome on the western side of the state, they should be moved there.
Rep. Joel Kretz, R-Wauconda, plans to propose legislation this week to move wolves into Western Washington near their supporters.
"When there's problems with wolves in one part of the state, they could be re-located to another part of the state that really should be able to share the benefits of wolves," he said.
"Right now the brunt of the whole thing is being born by my district, basically," he said, noting there are eight wolf packs in his district. "It's really easy for a senator in the San Juans to criticize dealing with wolf depredations in Eastern Washington."
Sen. Kevin Ranker, D-Orcas Island, has expressed concern over the state's killing of the Wedge Pack wolves after they repeatedly attacked livestock.
Kretz said he is concerned that there could be too many wolf packs in the wrong parts of the state to be delisted as an endangered species under the state's wolf management plan.
"It seems like most of the support for wolves is in areas where there are none," he said.
Kretz expects the bill would be a long shot to be passed. He calls it an "honesty test."
"The pro-wolf people typically love them as long they don't have to deal with them," he said. "It's a chance for the people in those areas to step up and actually deal with the real problems happening in northeastern Washington."
Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife officials killed six wolves in September 2012 that had been preying on livestock on the Diamond M Ranch in Laurier, Wash. Kretz said critics didn't sound off until after the fact.
"They're criticizing the department, they're personally criticizing the rancher, when they absolutely don't know a damn thing what they're talking about," he said.
Kretz said he thought the treatment of the Diamond M ranchers by the department and environmental groups was "shameful."
"They were castigated publicly," he said. "It's easy to criticize when you've got nothing on the table. When they're divvying up a rancher's livelihood, they need a little skin in the game. Let's just spread the love."
Ranchers are a "huge" part of the economy in Kretz's district, he said.
Kretz said he doesn't support wolf recovery in areas where there's human population. He doesn't think the winter range exists to support wolves in areas where there is agriculture, ranching or communities, but said wilderness areas or Yellowstone Park might be appropriate.
"Basically this is an effort to get the other side to put their money and votes where there mouth is and get some equity," he said. "If folks on the West Side are so supportive of (wolves), they need to have them in their communities."
Kretz is also working to introduce a bill for the state to delist wolves east of Highway 97. They are federally delisted, but the state must follow suit, he said.
Kretz expects his legislation to go before the state's code reviser in the next few days before formal introduction.
:IBCOOL: not going to happen, but I'm glad an elected official put it out there.
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 04:45:11 PM
Post by: romaknows on January 14, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 14, 2013, 04:46:37 PM
Post by: Rainier10 on January 14, 2013, 04:47:56 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 04:48:12 PM
Post by: mkcj on January 14, 2013, 04:54:24 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 14, 2013, 05:01:15 PM
Post by: gaddy on January 14, 2013, 05:05:17 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on January 14, 2013, 05:07:51 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 05:10:17 PM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 14, 2013, 05:10:41 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 14, 2013, 05:24:28 PM
It's not going to happen, but I understand the sentiment. Wolves are being pushed on the state by individuals with nothing at stake.:yeah:
In reality all this guy is doing is potentially cutting short his political career. Next time he's up for re-election someone from the wetside with deep pockets is gonna help back his opposition.
Post by: gaddy on January 14, 2013, 05:25:11 PM
well lets give it to them. seems to me there are plenty in the ne corner to allow a few to "migrate". (at least thats what i keep hearing).
im sure they wont be missed up there & it would also put us closer to our management objectives to allow for delisting.
did they not just have to take out a pack (questionable) up there?
Post by: villageidiot on January 14, 2013, 05:27:08 PM
Post by: RG on January 14, 2013, 05:27:58 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 05:29:12 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 14, 2013, 06:04:05 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 14, 2013, 06:20:44 PM
Then why waste the time and money on drafting the bill? This is one of my biggest issues with politicians, they draft legislation they have no problem admitting they know it won't pass.
There are a ton of these bills drafted every year in Olympia by both Republicans and Democrats. They take up time in committees that prevent other legislation from being passed.
For example, it took WDFW sponsored legislation regarding changes in enforcement law, such as the hunting while trespassing law several legislative sessions to be passed.
But yet we have to have hearings on whether to merge DNR-Parks-WDFW or just DNR-WDFW, moving DNR LE to WDFW, moving WDFW and DNR LE to WSP, eliminating Parks, WDFW, and DNR LE and giving it to county sheriff's. If people can be buried with their dogs.
I get the point Kretz is trying to make. But personally I think he would get more attention by writing a letter in the Seattle Times (or any paper) then a bill in Oly that won't pass.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 14, 2013, 06:35:54 PM
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 06:37:31 PM
Post by: logger on January 14, 2013, 06:41:28 PM
maybe if he was a westsider, he is a avid hunter and rancher in the okanogan, the man has strong support in his district.It's not going to happen, but I understand the sentiment. Wolves are being pushed on the state by individuals with nothing at stake.:yeah:
In reality all this guy is doing is potentially cutting short his political career. Next time he's up for re-election someone from the wetside with deep pockets is gonna help back his opposition.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 14, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
To be honest I'd rather have our politicians working on worthless bills than ones designed to take more money out of my pockets that have a chance of passing. :twocents:
You just don't understand the liberal mentality: If you have a problem, throw a bunch of money at it... if that doesn't work, throw a bunch more money at it! The taxpayers will stand for such a logical solution. They always have..... :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on January 14, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
Unfortunately that is too often the truth.To be honest I'd rather have our politicians working on worthless bills than ones designed to take more money out of my pockets that have a chance of passing. :twocents:
You just don't understand the liberal mentality: If you have a problem, throw a bunch of money at it... if that doesn't work, throw a bunch more money at it! The taxpayers will stand for such a logical solution. They always have..... :chuckle:
Post by: Tman on January 14, 2013, 06:49:31 PM
Post by: Dan-o on January 14, 2013, 06:50:55 PM
I think he's exactly right: People with no skin in the game ant wolves in someone else's backyard.
If they think it's such a great idea,then they should pony up.
Heck, I bet Orcas Island could host 3-4 packs for a while.....
Post by: bearpaw on January 14, 2013, 06:55:19 PM
What's it going to be Ranker, put your support where your mouth is?
Post by: Dan-o on January 14, 2013, 06:58:49 PM
I fully support kretz, it's about time the wolf lovers put up or shut up. :tup: :tup: :tup:
What's it going to be Ranker, put your support where your mouth is?
We should start small.
See if Kretz will donate just 2 packs for Orcas.
Post by: cougarbart on January 14, 2013, 06:59:19 PM
Post by: Dan-o on January 14, 2013, 07:02:39 PM
if you know anything about joel kretz you would know he has been the driving force behind getting and keeping predator hunting in his district, okanogan and washington! My guess is this is the only way he can drum up support for wolf management which is a major concern, for hunters and farmers! My guess the senator from orcas island couldnt care less about hunting or farmer and goes for the majority of lawmakers in washington!
I'm sure you're exactly right on both counts.
It's insane that people with no skin in the game get to so severely impact other people.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Seriously, if he's so supportive, why not a few on Orcas Island?
Post by: jess on January 14, 2013, 07:14:05 PM
Post by: RG on January 14, 2013, 09:19:05 PM
Post by: Jingles on January 14, 2013, 09:36:19 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 14, 2013, 10:06:21 PM
"Spend a day with us on Orcas. Hear the wolves howl and watch the puppy and kittie eradication operations up close."
Good way to discipline the kids, too. Tell them if they don't behave they will get thrown out into the back yard for the wolves to eat! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on January 14, 2013, 11:05:11 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 14, 2013, 11:20:10 PM
Post by: Special T on January 14, 2013, 11:30:45 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 15, 2013, 06:56:01 PM
I'd fully support this bill, I like the idea of it, only problem is I hunt here on the west side of the state, and I don't want any wolves here. I don't want our deer and elk herds decimated. Orcas Island? Fine. Put them there. Just make sure they stay there.
I would whole heartidly support the idea of relocation!! I hunt on the East Side and our Deer and Elk have been Decimated.
I say "Sharing is Caring"
The sooner they reach their management goals on the west side the soon I may get a chance to shoot one.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2013, 07:00:39 PM
I'd fully support this bill, I like the idea of it, only problem is I hunt here on the west side of the state, and I don't want any wolves here. I don't want our deer and elk herds decimated. Orcas Island? Fine. Put them there. Just make sure they stay there.
I would whole heartidly support the idea of relocation!! I hunt on the East Side and our Deer and Elk have been Decimated.
I say "Sharing is Caring"
That's fine. No problem. When the wolves kill off most of the deer and elk around here, I will go hunt in your backyard, where the hunting is easier. And I will bring all my friends. :IBCOOL:
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 15, 2013, 07:06:15 PM
So you and your friends will just sit and reminisce like us over here.
Post by: Kola16 on January 15, 2013, 07:11:08 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 15, 2013, 07:18:20 PM
It's not going to happen, but I understand the sentiment. Wolves are being pushed on the state by individuals with nothing at stake.:yeah:
In reality all this guy is doing is potentially cutting short his political career. Next time he's up for re-election someone from the wetside with deep pockets is gonna help back his opposition.
Nope, they couldn't buy opposition enough to beat him in his own district. The people living with the wolves see it for what it is - a huge mistake. I think implementing the idea would never happen and I'm glad it won't. I don't want those 150 lb rats in my back yard. But I like his challenge.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2013, 07:21:57 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 15, 2013, 07:23:00 PM
So what's going to be left to hunt after the wolves are done killing off all the deer and elk? Bears? Coyotes? And I guess, wolves?
You've got it. Wolves.
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2013, 07:25:03 PM
So what's going to be left to hunt after the wolves are done killing off all the deer and elk? Bears? Coyotes? And I guess, wolves?
You've got it. Wolves.
Well, problem is I really don't think my family will like wolf steaks as much as they like deer and elk steaks. :dunno:
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 15, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
So what's going to be left to hunt after the wolves are done killing off all the deer and elk? Bears? Coyotes? And I guess, wolves?
You've got it. Wolves.
Well, problem is I really don't think my family will like wolf steaks as much as they like deer and elk steaks. :dunno:
I don't know. The Koreans love dog meat. Maybe there's something to it! :tup:
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 15, 2013, 07:27:25 PM
A case of NIMBY!! :dunno:
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 07:36:48 PM
Post by: Kola16 on January 15, 2013, 07:43:20 PM
So what's going to be left to hunt after the wolves are done killing off all the deer and elk? Bears? Coyotes? And I guess, wolves?
Like I said
I am glad I duck hunt :chuckle: :chuckle: :(
but they are ok on the eastside.None of us west siders want them on the east side either :dunno:
Post by: turkeyfeather on January 15, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
Maybe I read it wrong but it sounds to me like bobcat and pianoman don't mind if they are over here cause we have so much more room and so many more animals. Not trying to attack anyone, but that's how it sounds.but they are ok on the eastside.None of us west siders want them on the east side either :dunno:
Post by: kevinlisa06 on January 15, 2013, 08:37:28 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 15, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
But, fact is, they ARE on the east side of the state. And other than some unconfirmed sightings, we don't have them over here, yet.
Oh and BTW, wolves are not new to north-central Washington. They have been there since the 80's, at least.
Post by: Bob33 on January 15, 2013, 08:48:18 PM
Post by: firefighter4607 on January 16, 2013, 03:18:53 AM
Maybe I read it wrong but it sounds to me like bobcat and pianoman don't mind if they are over here cause we have so much more room and so many more animals. Not trying to attack anyone, but that's how it sounds.
Yes Turkeyfeather you are right but you have to remember one thing about bobcat, he is fine with problems as long as they don't affect him. He was spouting off this last summer burn baby burn; while people were losing their homes and their property were burning to the ground. He wanted mother nature to take her course, but yet when asked what if it his backyard or hunting grounds he wanted the state to stop the fire ASAP. Sad to see how some folks are just plane selfish when it comes to some issues.
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 16, 2013, 05:49:04 AM
Maybe I read it wrong but it sounds to me like bobcat and pianoman don't mind if they are over here cause we have so much more room and so many more animals. Not trying to attack anyone, but that's how it sounds.
Yes Turkeyfeather you are right but you have to remember one thing about bobcat, he is fine with problems as long as they don't affect him. He was spouting off this last summer burn baby burn; while people were losing their homes and their property were burning to the ground. He wanted mother nature to take her course, but yet when asked what if it his backyard or hunting grounds he wanted the state to stop the fire ASAP. Sad to see how some folks are just plane selfish when it comes to some issues.
Gentlemen!! Sometimes you just need to find better avenues to persue with your time, Since the student has no interest in Music! :hello:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 16, 2013, 06:14:40 AM
Well lets think about this... Orcas island had 30 modern permits 20 muzzy 20 archery for second deer permits. I would assume that deer are overpopulating the island and they need better management. Part of the reason why there is a deer problem is because people do not allow hunting. 1 Pack of wolves would remedy that situation (especially because there are not even coyotes on the island.) Maybe we should talk to wolf haven and a new pack could just show up, and then they could try and figure out if they hybrids or the real deal! :bash: An island is a great tool for study because you can control the environment better!Well,I started reading from the 1st page of this thread and then I come to Special Ts post ... :hello: No sense in throwing my :twocents: in because you have covered it all :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup: But they should drop off one Alfa Male and one Alfa female off to Mr Ranker and let him play fetch with them .... :dunno:
Post by: C-Money on January 16, 2013, 06:46:30 AM
My opinion is when King County has wolves then something will happen, finally.
YUP! I am in favor of seeing the west side put up or shut up. They need to understand that it is not a good feeling to have wolves pushed on them, and not be able to defend their property and way of life. I am glad some one is turning up the heat a little on these wolf supporters. I am not in favor of another wolf being introduced anywhere, but if this is what it takes to open the eyes of the mighty west voters, crank it up! Wolves must be eliminated or better managed, with much smaller pack numbers.
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 16, 2013, 06:52:55 AM
Post by: Bob33 on January 16, 2013, 07:06:17 AM
"No, no, not by the hair on my chinny chin chin."
"Then I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll eat up your tasty wildlife."
Post by: bobcat on January 16, 2013, 07:16:11 AM
They didn't put any wolves on the east side so why would they put them here?
I can't believe this is even being discussed. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on January 16, 2013, 07:19:32 AM
I don't think anyone really believes it could happen. :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on January 16, 2013, 07:22:04 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 16, 2013, 07:24:19 AM
It won't go anywhere. If it ever got any traction at all it would get tied up in legal battles for a decade.
I don't think anyone really believes it could happen. :dunno:
I think that the principle of it is good (holding their feet to the fire), but asking for wolves to be moved into additional areas of the state just compounds the present situation, which is already too many wolves. Besides, the DFW hasn't, doesn't, and won't move wolves anywhere. It takes too much money, time, science, and the wolves will move around fine on their own.
Post by: Special T on January 16, 2013, 07:53:27 AM
Post by: C-Money on January 16, 2013, 08:01:58 AM
Post by: Curly on January 16, 2013, 08:11:49 AM
Instead of putting out bad bills that have no chance, why not put pressure on WDFW to modify the ridiculous wolf plan that they came up with? Why not change the wolf plan and allow hunting of wolves immediately in the Federally delisted areas of the state? :dunno:
Post by: C-Money on January 16, 2013, 08:18:06 AM
Post by: BeeMan on January 16, 2013, 06:16:53 PM
He is pushing an issue that is a huge problem for people in his district into the forefront as best he can by using the tools that he has at his disposal. I say we need more politicians like him!!
I'd say he was pretty successful because it got all of you talking about it didn't it? (5 pages in just a couple days)....
The more people talk about this issue and the faster the facts get out about wolves in this state the faster we will get to a point where we can finally do something about them... we need more people in positions of authority putting this kind of effort into this issue.
In my opinion it wasn't a waste of time or money... :tup:
Post by: gaddy on January 16, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
Post by: villageidiot on January 16, 2013, 06:50:14 PM
They will not throw out a lifejacket untill everybody in the boat has fell into the water. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: jess on January 16, 2013, 07:15:45 PM
Post by: nwwanderer on January 16, 2013, 07:30:53 PM
Post by: RG on January 16, 2013, 07:55:47 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 16, 2013, 08:01:58 PM
If we take Pianoplayers advice and let them migrate to the Westside there will be 50 plus packs in the NE part of the state and they still will not have met the quota the notheads set. What a dumb way to set a goal to reach.I kind of think it is WDFWs plan to take the long way to delisting. Even if the eastside has to suffer through while the rest of the state is not meeting recovery goal. If/when they get to the point of delisting per their plan, they will likely face lots of lawsuits from antis and pressure from hunters. Translocating would get the delisting/management rolling. Not translocating sounds like mostly a stall tactic to avoid the courtrooms.
They will not throw out a lifejacket untill everybody in the boat has fell into the water. STUPID, STUPID, STUPID :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: bobcat on January 16, 2013, 08:06:23 PM
Obviously nobody is going to put a pack of 100 plus pound wolves on Orcas Is. but the point is I'd like to hear the fine Senator Ranker address the issue publicly when he's not in front of a news camera surrounded by supporters. It would be interesting to hear what he said when confronted by experts and those with actual experience in the matter. It would also be really interesting to know what kind of "support" he receives from animal rights groups since it's clear from the timing and nature of his comments about the Wedge Pack that he is a puppet for one group or another.
I would have to agree with all of that. :tup:
I would love to hear him try to come up with excuses as to why he doesn't want wolves on Orcas Island.
Post by: Bob33 on January 16, 2013, 09:02:16 PM
While there may be a few unfortunate incidents with domestic animals, they were not part of the original biosphere. Their removal will only serve to strengthen the island's natural balance to its pre-human condition.
The sportsmen are prepared to proceed immediately and await your designation of a release site.
Post by: denali on January 16, 2013, 11:17:35 PM
Post by: RG on January 17, 2013, 04:30:51 AM
"as they seek out the weak, feeble, and elderly of Orcas Island." and maybe add "weak minded" to the list too.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 17, 2013, 05:26:38 AM
Senator Ranker, a group of local sportsmen are eager to express their appreciation to you for your strong support of wolves in Washington. As a token of their gratitude they have raised funds to transplant 12 wolves to Orcas Island. Through this generous donation you will no longer need to travel to Eastern Washington to experience their natural beauty and exquisite power as they seek out the weak, feeble, and elderly animals of Orcas Island.Seriously Bob ...this does make more sense than anything I have heard ...It would be like Yellow Stone ...It is an Island and it could now become a wolf haven for wolfs in Washington ...There are alot of deer for them to eat on Orcas and since they have no predators except foxes to control the population it could not make anymore sense than to plant are pair on the Island :dunno: :chuckle:
While there may be a few unfortunate incidents with domestic animals, they were not part of the original biosphere. Their removal will only serve to strengthen the island's natural balance to its pre-human condition.
The sportsmen are prepared to proceed immediately and await your designation of a release site.
Post by: yakimarcher on January 17, 2013, 08:12:58 AM
Post by: C-Money on January 17, 2013, 08:47:47 AM
Senator Ranker, a group of local sportsmen are eager to express their appreciation to you for your strong support of wolves in Washington. As a token of their gratitude they have raised funds to transplant 12 wolves to Orcas Island. Through this generous donation you will no longer need to travel to Eastern Washington to experience their natural beauty and exquisite power as they seek out the weak, feeble, and elderly animals of Orcas Island.
While there may be a few unfortunate incidents with domestic animals, they were not part of the original biosphere. Their removal will only serve to strengthen the island's natural balance to its pre-human condition.
The sportsmen are prepared to proceed immediately and await your designation of a release site.
Bob, this is a brilliant letter. I would love to hear his response. :tup:
Post by: RG on January 17, 2013, 06:51:26 PM
Senator Ranker, a group of local sportsmen are eager to express their appreciation to you for your strong support of wolves in Washington. As a token of their gratitude they have raised funds to transplant 12 wolves to Orcas Island. Through this generous donation you will no longer need to travel to Eastern Washington to experience their natural beauty and exquisite power as they seek out the weak, feeble, and elderly animals of Orcas Island.
While there may be a few unfortunate incidents with domestic animals, they were not part of the original biosphere. Their removal will only serve to strengthen the island's natural balance to its pre-human condition.
The sportsmen are prepared to proceed immediately and await your designation of a release site.
Bob, this is a brilliant letter. I would love to hear his response. :tup:
He wouldn't answer. I sent him an email a while back asking why he thought he knows more about wolf management than the scientists we hired at WDFW? I asked him if he truly believed we should manage wildlife based upon the whims of emotional special interest groups or upon the science put forth by the expert biologists who we hire to manage the resource. He didn't answer me of course because he is working for special interests and his motives are selfish and he knows that we know it. His constituents, unfortunately, are suckers and dupes apparently.
Post by: whacker1 on January 19, 2013, 08:07:12 AM
more of the same story
Post by: Ridgeratt on January 19, 2013, 08:12:04 AM
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/jan/19/bill-would-send-wolves-to-inhabit-west-side-too/ (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/jan/19/bill-would-send-wolves-to-inhabit-west-side-too/)
more of the same story
If they are looking for Donations for gas money to help get them across the state.
"I'm in where do I send the funds" :tup: