Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Redmist on September 19, 2008, 11:05:19 AM
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I told Icicle Outfitters and a few other members of this forum about my experience on the High Hunt this year, thought I'd tell the rest and possibly gather back some information to get me going again. Sunday I hiked in Solo to a pretty good spot I like to hit opening morning of the High Hunt. Set the tent about 10P.M. that night on a small level protrusion surrounded by shale slides. Only level spot I could locate and I was running on fumes. Monday at 4AM I left the tent and climbed another 700 yards to reach the lower edge of a basin I wanted to watch. Glassed a 12 buck bachelor group, mostly immature 3 and 4 points with about 3 older bucks not breaking 160. Nothing I wanted. Spent the rest of Monday doing a ton of verticle before my water supply ran low, then I dropped down through a high basin spring and refilled 4 quarts and took a bath before heading back down to the tent at dark. I purified with Coghlan's tablets. I have always used Potable Aqua tablets in the past. In the bag at 7:30. At 10:30 I awoke in a panic to relieve myself. Bad diarea. Took some Immodium went back to sleep. About 1:30 AM it hits worse and I scramble out in my socks onto the shale slide and cut loose like a fighter pilot who just got ejected from an F-14 TomCat. I crawl back into the tent and can see in the full moon that I have black wet stuff on my foot, bag, and tent. It's not crap. It's blood. I gashed my foot on the shale right in the middle of the metatarsal pad. I get the bleeding stopped and get a compression wrap on it then sleep until 4AM. I make one last painful hike back up to the bachelor group to see if any more mature bucks entered the area. I glass 1 new guy who was pretty heavy and tall. He's about 600 yards out and gets into his bedding stand before giving me a good look at his tines. I know I can put a hit on this guy but I can't eat or drink, and I can feel the blood in my boot. I call it off, because I'm in bad shape already, and certainly couldn't make it back out with his meat and head even if I left all my gear in the wilderness. I have one painful dizzy dehydrated trip out of the wilderness that day. Usually I bring powdered Gatorade to spike my water for Carbs but didn't this trip to save weight. My only Carbs were in solid food and I couldn't eat. Thanks to a couple of Cowboys from Longview who I met about 5 miles into the way out I was able to get a juicebox down with pain killer, which really turned me around. The next 7.5 miles were tolerable. Back at home Tuesday night I figured to get the foot workable and return back in on Monday. It's doing well but I still can't eat w/o getting another ride in the ejector seat. I don't feel sick. I'm still riding the exercise bike to work lactic acid out of my legs and consume liquids. Is there some new flu running around right now, or have I picked up some kind of a water bug when I stoked up on that high basin spring? I don't think it's Cryptosporidium Cysts, my understanding is that those things take a couple of weeks to get working on your system. I'm about to call the Doc, but I'm avoiding him because I figure he'll roll his eyes at me and begin lecturing me about unnecessary risk taking which he say's is over prevalent in my life style. Anybody have any insight out there? Feel free to lecture me as long as you don't roll your eyes. I guess I should mention that I broke a couple of lower ribs three weeks ago when I was jousted in the stomach by a laydown lodgepole pine at about 20 MPH. Thats another story and one the Doc would want to know more about for sure if I see him about stomach problems. Thanks for any help.
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well, as the winner of the giardia award many times over, it sounds to me like you might have picked up a bad icky coloform bacteria. I thought I might be getting the rocket craps from the water too, I was using aqua mira drops, but I found that the trail mix I had was either contaminated, or too rich for me.
I would be more worried about a cut than giardia, crypto is a different storry. I would call your doc and tell him to get you a prescription for metronitozole (sp) or flagyl. even if you don't need it this time, if you go light in the woods long enough, you are gonna need it.
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I've been sick and hurt up in the high country. It's no good. You did a fine job just getting yourself out of there.
I dunno what you've got - I'd guess giardia got you - but that's just a guess. So what if your doctor lectures you on "risk taking." Get in and see the man, he may be able to help you.
Congrats on getting out in almost one piece! Guy
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man it sucks that you were sick, that takes a better man than most to pass up a shot at a big buck knowing you wont be able to get it out, too bad, good luck if you are able to get back up there hope you can bag a bigun
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Go to the doctor. It might be something that clears up on its own, but if it doesn't it could really mess you up.
Water tablets expire, sometimes we don't get the stuff around the rim of the drinking bottle, and we need to be careful about the kill-time for the tablets. I got the cha-cha's too many times on tablets and I stick with a PUR hiker pump filter now.
It might not even be the water, but just fecal-oral transmission from using the outdoor facilities and not having hotwater and soap to wash your hands. Keep those fingernails trimmed!
Or, you might be right that it's something you had before you went out in the woods. Sorry you had such a bad time. Feel better soon.
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Go to the doc. I assume you have coverage, use it, you paid for it... Giardia takes longer than a day to show. Your approach hike might have knocked your guts loose, and couple that with maybe that South Sound Flu that is running around, nothing worse than a salad shooter.
I would buy a water filtration device to cleanse your water. I understand that alot of those pills take some time to work, and in colder conditions, they take even longer. :dunno:
Take care of yourself!
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does sound like beaver fever,i would go to the doc.great story sorry to hear ya got sick
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Thanks for the advice. I've been considering a pump for a year now but have refrained because I just didn't want the extra gear. I read quite alot over the past year about purification and know I am taking a risk with pills alone. I'll ask doc about those two prescriptions. Went out bass fishing on the Potholes today and felt good, but I haven't ate all day. Gonna try now. Thanks again.
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go tot the bloody doc, your better off getting the lecture, than you are trying to hunt with problems in your body. :twocents:
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That's a bummer Redmist, sounds like you were on the deer too.
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Ya Redmist I got a call from CrabCreekHunter the day after you came out... sucks for sure man hope you make it back in there! Get better quick!
Michael
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Too fast of a turn around for Giardia. It takes time for it or Campy or any of those to nail you. About 10 days or so. As for bacteria it can be very fast. Glad you got out safe.
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Thanks for the story. Hope you feel 100% soon.
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I think Redmist is heading back in either today or Monday... Some new bucks should have moved into their area by now... Good luck man and go get 'em!!!
Michael
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Have not made it back in yet. Doc figures I have Clostridium Difficile which is bacteria which caused a severe infection of the colon. The bacteria takes root after the normal gut flora is eliminated by general purpose antibiotics. I was on antibiotics to heal the puncture wound in my side from my blowdown jousting. Was clear of antibiotics for one week prior to the High Hunt. This gave C-Diff just enough time to multiply and take me down on the mountain. HIGH COUNTRY pretty much diagnosed me or at least prescribed correctly. If C-DIFF is what I have, I need METRONITOZOLE. With or w/o lab results returned tomorrow I'm going to pressure some MET out of the Doc and try to hit the trail for the last couple of days. I've got about 10 pounds of body fat left to consume, and I'll pack liquid carbs and protein to keep hydrated. So I think. Would have been alot easier to take this if I'd gone up there and not seen a single buck. Sorry you didn't score yet Michael. It will happen. Law of averages. Keep playing the game.
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Water tablets expire, sometimes we don't get the stuff around the rim of the drinking bottle, and we need to be careful about the kill-time for the tablets. I got the cha-cha's too many times on tablets and I stick with a PUR hiker pump filter now.
:iamwithstupid:
You get one year max from the date you opened the bottle. They only sit good on the shelf (even while sealed) for like 4 years.
This summer I backpacked through the Enchantments with a group of four. I brought a UV light filter which chose to give out during the trip. It made things miserable as the only other backup we had was fuel to boil water--and probably didn't have enough. Fortunately the UV light was bought at REI so it could be returned.
I'm going the route of the pump next, but even still, I'm taking pills as a backup. They can't be beat as far as weight and size goes. As mentioned before pay close attention to the directions (30 minutes minimum--and don't add the vitamin C tables before this time as it neutralizes the iodine). This may not have been the source of your diarrhea but it bears repeating for everyone reading.
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A few people have brought up poor purification technique. Not knowing me I respect those suggestions. I'm ANAL (I hate that word right now), but I double the time, and sometimes increase the power. Rim shake two to three times, at different purification intervals. Like I said, the only doubt I had with the pills were MFG. I replace my pills about every trip, and certainly don't carry them over to the next season. I've been doing this for quite a few years now, and the only difference on this trip was the pills MFG. For years I have used Potable Aqua MFG by Wisconsin Pharmacal, The pills I bought this trip were Coghlan's MFG in USA for Coghlan's Ltd. Same size bottle and Pills. The pills were the same size, chemical, chemical concentration. The only difference I (might) have perceived were the dissolving action of the neutralizer, which shouldn't mean anything other than taste. Talking with the Docs, the internet education, etc., I don't think this was related to my mountain water source, but was brought into the mountains by my body. Doc is testing for water Giardia, Cysts, etc. I will certainly keep you hunters informed of the lab results. I didn't recognize that Ascorbic Acid was the neutralizer. I figured it was chlorine? Thanks for educating me. My brother and I have purified water out of Mountain Goat wallows which contained about as much mud and dung as H20 and didn't get sick using pills. Survival of course. I still ride 2-Stroke dirtbikes and bassboats. Love the smell of Castor 927 and VP-U2 race fuel. I put that *censored* in my lawn mower to make me think I'm somewhere else. Try it. But I might get a water pump. Appreciate all info.
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It looked nasty even purified. But it tasted great. You watch that survival dude on TV sucking juices out of a week old dead camel and drinking his own piss and you'll buy dung water from me for top dollar when your severely dehydrated. Matter of fact, I'm raising prices due to the cost of fuel. Just close your eyes when you have to suck juices from something that looks questionable. It's easy as that!
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Hey Redmist, sounds like you're getting it worked out! You think you gonna make it back there or not? Sending PM here pretty quick...
Michael
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Do people get giardia from springs very often?? I drink out of springs all the time and have never had a bad experience?? Heck my house water is from a developed spring and comes in untreated. :dunno:
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Basically... Giardia cysts are non-motile microscopic organisms that have been shed into the stream from some sort of critter, man, beaver, marmots etc. Marmots and beaver are big carriers of it. The motile organism or the ones causing yiou the grief are not infective. Therefore hard running water, springs etc, unless you disturb the bottom, the odds are you won't get it even in infected waters. However it doesn't take too many of them to make you miserable. Then there are a large chunk of people who seem to have a pretty good immunity to the bug. I thought I was one of those folks as I drink mountain water all of the time. I only use a water filter when drinking out of a pond or stale water source. Then one morning I got some bottom sediment in my container when I was filling up in the dark. OUCH! It hit about 10 days later.
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I picked up a squeeze bottle at Sportsmans warehouse before our mountain elk hunt and it worked great. Cost me like $15 bucks and filters out giradia and other bugs.
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I think all water is dirty. I put some chlorine type tabs in it before I drink water anywhere. Im paranoid like that.
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Flagyl presciption is only a $10 deductible if you have medical. :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: :crap: course the toilet paper costs have gone up some.
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I wound up drinking directly from streams and lakes during our jaunt through the Enchantments as I felt that I shoudl take the brunt end of our water purification going offline since I'm the one who bought it. Boiled water went to the innocent parties first. Fortuantely, I never got sick despite the area being littered with mountain goats.
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Redmist, I would agree with your Doc that the most likely culprit is the C-Diff, especially if you've recently finished a course of antibiotics. Boneaddict is right, it's too short of an incubation time for any of the standard water borne type ailments, at least from what you've described. Follow the Doc's treatment for the C-diff and you'll start getting better pretty quick.
