Post by: Drifterat on February 11, 2013, 08:39:15 PM
Post by: cohoho on February 11, 2013, 08:49:23 PM
Post by: Spikorbust on February 11, 2013, 08:53:35 PM
Post by: SilkOnTheDrySide on February 11, 2013, 09:00:00 PM
I'm not a store owner just FYI.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on February 11, 2013, 09:13:59 PM
Just cause you see it for sale at X price does not mean it has to be bought for that.
I love the optimism that things will improve is 6 short months. :)
I am thinking more like 2014 at best. But, I would love to be wrong.
The real hero here is our Dear Leader and his pet "legitimate media" who deserves the clap for this snafu. He deserves praise for building his own army (DHS) buying pistol and rifle ammo. To use against the citizenry (cough) I mean to use hollow points to train with and causing real fear (of him) in the people he is supposedly the President of.
I have seen prices for things higher than that. I saw no .223 from Idaho to Wenatchee today. Black Sheep had powders (limit of 2.) They had bullets as well, Some brass. They did have a pallet of S&W .40 target ammo but I did not see a price. They had large rifle primers.
Cabala's had nothing to speak of. No primers, some .38 cal, they had two boxes of Sierra 55gr 22 cal for $119.
High Mountain in Moses Lake has AR 15 bolt receivers, they have their ammo supply right when you walk in there was a variety of calibers, they have many bullet calibers and a decent amount of powder. No primers.
I do feel the frustration of people but I honestly think that given a choice of trying to price gouge or going back to when there was product of order and sell Business owners would by far and large not have our current situation. Anyone who has ever run a business knows that if you can not order the product you can't sell the product. It makes the cost of all things rise. I have never seen a gun store that runs on .223. But right now all product is hard to get. I started a thread for WTT reloading product. It may be that local people have unused items that will help us all get through this. :)
Post by: low97ram on February 12, 2013, 07:31:15 AM
$1.00 a cartridge for. 223 and $ .55 for 7.62x39? $1000 for a delton basic upper? $30 for tapco Ak Mag's. $50 for pmags. $210 for a Vortex Strikefire scope? WTF? And not a single firearm for sale in the place. I hope the consumer will remember the AFing we are getting now, 6 months from now. I will not forget.
Went in there sat. Supposedly they lost or are being delayed in renewal of FFL so no guns. Did u see .22LR ammo at $55/525 rds? Lol.
Post by: KNOPHISH on February 12, 2013, 07:53:27 AM
Post by: Spikorbust on February 12, 2013, 07:56:51 AM
Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.
I'm not a store owner just FYI.
I understand taking advantage for short term gain but your always risking long term success. As a business owner you learn to be loyal to your customers and your customers will be loyal to you. So when I see business do this to piss off there customer base, usually is a business that will not stand behind anything and won't have your back when needed.
Post by: Bean Counter on February 12, 2013, 08:12:49 AM
I've seen that with some Midway USA orders recently. Usually they're pretty good if you want to call or email them to modify a pending order. I had some incoming Glock magazines and I wanted to add a few items to the order. They didn't answer my email before the item shifted and they wouldn't even answer phone calls. While on one hand its nice that they're trying to keep prices low, they lost out on sales and I may have to pay S&H for two orders now.
Some of you really ought to blame yourselves for not stocking up when the going was good. Venting your frustration at a merchant just seems callow and immature to me. :twocents:
Post by: chrisb on February 12, 2013, 08:25:36 AM
I hope the consumer will remember the AFing we are getting now, 6 months from now. I will not forget.
So tired of hearing this on every forum about "X" store/website and their prices. This is the number one principle of economics folks, supply and demand. Let's also not forget that we live in a capitalist society, and this is capitalism at it's finest. Just because 6 months or 6 years ago you could buy all of this stuff for fractions of the price you pay now does not make it price gouging.
Do you plan on not buying milk from Fred Meyers if the price goes up b/c of last summers drought and feed prices went up or would you just say well the poor farmer has to make a living too?
Did everyone stop living inside to protest the high cost of housing pre 2008? No most people cashed in on it by refinancing to cash out and buy toys or live a life style they couldn't really afford (guilty as charged!)
Who here sold their cars and went to bikes and public transportation b/c gas prices aren't what they were in 2000, or 2004?
If you want to stop supporting a locally owned/run business because they price their items at CURRENT market value and not HISTORICAL value then by all means do, just make sure you apply your economic logic to all things you buy not just who you get ammo/mags from.
Drifterat - Please understand that this is not an attack on you in anyway, I'm just venting b/c I hear the same rant repeatedly from people wanting to pay pre re-election prices. I too wish I could afford to shoot more and buy more mags, but it is what it is for now.
Post by: Wazukie on February 12, 2013, 08:58:36 AM
I hope the consumer will remember the AFing we are getting now, 6 months from now. I will not forget.
So tired of hearing this on every forum about "X" store/website and their prices. This is the number one principle of economics folks, supply and demand. Let's also not forget that we live in a capitalist society, and this is capitalism at it's finest. Just because 6 months or 6 years ago you could buy all of this stuff for fractions of the price you pay now does not make it price gouging.
Do you plan on not buying milk from Fred Meyers if the price goes up b/c of last summers drought and feed prices went up or would you just say well the poor farmer has to make a living too?
Did everyone stop living inside to protest the high cost of housing pre 2008? No most people cashed in on it by refinancing to cash out and buy toys or live a life style they couldn't really afford (guilty as charged!)
Who here sold their cars and went to bikes and public transportation b/c gas prices aren't what they were in 2000, or 2004?
If you want to stop supporting a locally owned/run business because they price their items at CURRENT market value and not HISTORICAL value then by all means do, just make sure you apply your economic logic to all things you buy not just who you get ammo/mags from.
Drifterat - Please understand that this is not an attack on you in anyway, I'm just venting b/c I hear the same rant repeatedly from people wanting to pay pre re-election prices. I too wish I could afford to shoot more and buy more mags, but it is what it is for now.
Nope, will not buy the milk, cost to much! Just like I will not drive as much because gas went up AGAIN and just like I will not pay the current price on ammo. Thank the good lord my daddy taught me how to survive, and thank the good Lord He has allowed me to live in the boonies!
Post by: mountainman on February 12, 2013, 09:39:05 AM
Post by: chrisb on February 12, 2013, 10:23:45 AM
I hope the consumer will remember the AFing we are getting now, 6 months from now. I will not forget.
So tired of hearing this on every forum about "X" store/website and their prices. This is the number one principle of economics folks, supply and demand. Let's also not forget that we live in a capitalist society, and this is capitalism at it's finest. Just because 6 months or 6 years ago you could buy all of this stuff for fractions of the price you pay now does not make it price gouging.
Do you plan on not buying milk from Fred Meyers if the price goes up b/c of last summers drought and feed prices went up or would you just say well the poor farmer has to make a living too?
Did everyone stop living inside to protest the high cost of housing pre 2008? No most people cashed in on it by refinancing to cash out and buy toys or live a life style they couldn't really afford (guilty as charged!)
Who here sold their cars and went to bikes and public transportation b/c gas prices aren't what they were in 2000, or 2004?
If you want to stop supporting a locally owned/run business because they price their items at CURRENT market value and not HISTORICAL value then by all means do, just make sure you apply your economic logic to all things you buy not just who you get ammo/mags from.
Drifterat - Please understand that this is not an attack on you in anyway, I'm just venting b/c I hear the same rant repeatedly from people wanting to pay pre re-election prices. I too wish I could afford to shoot more and buy more mags, but it is what it is for now.
Nope, will not buy the milk, cost to much! Just like I will not drive as much because gas went up AGAIN and just like I will not pay the current price on ammo. Thank the good lord my daddy taught me how to survive, and thank the good Lord He has allowed me to live in the boonies!
Most have cut back... but how many have flat out said I'm not shopping at grocery stores anymore b/c the price went up? How many have given up driving all together? Very few I would guess
Post by: jackelope on February 12, 2013, 10:39:54 AM
@mountainman....are your margins the same as what they were a year ago? If so then I won't think less of dealers like you guys. I do know a dealer over here that is jacking their prices way the heck up and laughing all the way to the bank. That is not cool but nobody is telling people they HAVE to run out and pay these extreme prices for this stuff. A lot of business owners will take advantage of this scenario. fortunately for me I have plenty of ammo for all my firearms and don't need any more guns so I have nothing to complain about at this time.
Post by: Spikorbust on February 12, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it's ok or that you should do it. My guy says places like the store mentioned above will suffer in the long run.
@mountainman....are your margins the same as what they were a year ago? If so then I won't think less of dealers like you guys. I do know a dealer over here that is jacking their prices way the heck up and laughing all the way to the bank. That is not cool but nobody is telling people they HAVE to run out and pay these extreme prices for this stuff. A lot of business owners will take advantage of this scenario. fortunately for me I have plenty of ammo for all my firearms and don't need any more guns so I have nothing to complain about at this time.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Couldn't agree more profit margins are profit margins you have to make money to stay in business. Most of you refer to gas price increase or milk but that's way different then whats going on now. When production cost go up you have no choice but to elevate your prices that's business 101. When your wholesale cost stay the same and you decide to that advantage of your customer base that's another. Small businesses rely on repeat business there is nothing stopping anyone from shopping the box stores but some don't out of loyalty, customer service, or the idea of giving money back to the small man. So the ones that say supply and demand good luck with your business plan because the money you make now you'll have to live on it for awhile.
Post by: chrisb on February 12, 2013, 11:12:32 AM
So the ones that say supply and demand good luck with your business plan because the money you make now you'll have to live on it for awhile.
That's a great point... think of how these businesses are supposed to survive if any type of ban is put in place. What about when the supply chain truly is dried up? they need to make money now to live on for a potentially very long time.
Post by: KelseyH on February 12, 2013, 11:26:37 AM
You're very close on that statement. It answer a previous question, yes, our margins have gone up. This is a necessity not to gouge but for the survival of the business. Small business lives off of cash flow and everyday we have a certain amount of overhead we have to meet in profit just to pay the expenses of the day. When supply is plentiful and we can keep product on the shelves, it is easy to run at lower margins and sell higher volumes to make up the daily minimum. In this current situation though, we cannot sell in volume simply because of the restrictions of supply so we are forced to make up that amount of finance by increase margin on the products that we do have available.
I hope that is beneficial explanation of the way a store works with its financial obligations on a daily basis. You can run a high volume at a low margin, or you can run a Higher Margin at a lower volume but in the end, you must make the minimum to survive. The limits on volume are forcing everyone to higher margins. There are also extremes to it. You can run super high volumes at no margin or you can run super high margins at no volume, both result in failure. It is a constant balancing act.
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
Post by: h20hunter on February 12, 2013, 11:29:41 AM
Post by: Spuddieselwwu on February 12, 2013, 11:30:11 AM
Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.
I'm not a store owner just FYI.
There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging... Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.
Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December. The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.
Post by: chrisb on February 12, 2013, 01:29:05 PM
Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.
I'm not a store owner just FYI.
There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging... Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.
Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December. The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.
In today's marketplace a $799 AR is a steal even if it's $50 more than previously priced.
Post by: Spuddieselwwu on February 12, 2013, 01:30:49 PM
Hate to play devils advocate...but this is simple supply and demand economics...if you aren't due supply as a store for months, you are losing out on potential revenue to keep yourself afloat, therefore you have to increase prices to account for the supply and demand, otherwise you as a store might not make it.
I'm not a store owner just FYI.
There is a difference between supply and demand, and price gauging... Since you were an english major and not a business major, you wouldn't know that.
Example: West Coast Armory has been selling AR's (when they get them in) for 799, that same AR was 749 pre December. The extra $50 accounts for their margin shrinking/demand rising.
In today's marketplace a $799 AR is a steal even if it's $50 more than previously priced.
:yeah:
Post by: gasman on February 12, 2013, 03:35:15 PM
The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.
Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.
And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying :tup:
You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.
:twocents:
Post by: xd2005 on February 12, 2013, 03:49:00 PM
it seems to me that the small business owner and every day Joe blow are the ones raising the prices :dunno:
The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.
Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.
And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying :tup:
You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.
:twocents:
The big box stores are able to rely on more than just gun related sales. If SAA lowered their prices to old ones, they would sell out in a day...then what? Wait for the next shipment to come in, work one day and close again to wait for the next? It's really a simple concept, if people don't like the prices, don't buy. If they don't sell enough, they will lower prices to move inventory.
Post by: Skillet on February 12, 2013, 04:27:28 PM
Is the supply of these items we're discussing actually limited at this point, or is it just limited relative to the spike in demand? I ask because it would appear that every manufacturer of these items is running at a "higher-than-before-the-demand-spike" capacity and the product has to be going somewhere. Are your allocations from manufacturers truly limited to less than what you were able to order before, or are you simply not able to order proportionately more product to meet the much higher demand, making it feel as if there is a shortage of supply when you're filling out your PO's? :dunno:
Thanks-
Post by: Cap.Silver on February 12, 2013, 04:36:01 PM
Post by: Special T on February 12, 2013, 04:39:39 PM
Post by: gasman on February 12, 2013, 04:59:10 PM
it seems to me that the small business owner and every day Joe blow are the ones raising the prices :dunno:
The big retailers have kept the prices in check for the most part. Example, Cabelas had AR's last week and sold them foe $799. Whole sale sports and Sportsmens wharehouse get them in and sell them for $799 also. there mags are in the $20 range, just a little higher then pre Dec.
Now the small business man Joe Blow see the shortage and demand for the item and double the price to sell for a profit. SAA selling pmags for $50. 2 ammo for $55 a box. complete uppers for $999.
J&S has done the same. $60 pmags, $2500 that are normally $800, BCG for $400 when two months ago they sold for $175.
And oh yeah, they still have them all in stock :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
I dont see many people buys that out rages price much any more. Weeks ago the shelf's were empty, now they are restocked with item selling for double and people are not buying :tup:
You even got Joe Blow on here and gun broker selling for the inflated prices and there still trying to sell them :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Things will die down along with prices. If items are not sold and sit on the shelf, they dont make money. The longer they keep the prices up and dont sell, the more people will remember the over inflation of prices and spend there money in stores that did not over inflate there prices, like me.
:twocents:
The big box stores are able to rely on more than just gun related sales. If SAA lowered their prices to old ones, they would sell out in a day...then what? Wait for the next shipment to come in, work one day and close again to wait for the next? It's really a simple concept, if people don't like the prices, don't buy. If they don't sell enough, they will lower prices to move inventory.
you are correct, and that is why they have a stock of ammo and Pmags on the shelf that are not selling, also not having there FFL and not being able to sell guns is hurting them too.
All the people we seen in there were like us. Seen the prices were way out there and walked out with out spending a $$.
Keep prices more reasonable, move inventory, make money :dunno: unless they are relying on the higher prices to keep business a-float while they deal with there FFL issue :bdid:
Post by: KelseyH on February 12, 2013, 06:31:35 PM
The reality is, this is a very real shortage. It is a shortage that may actually put smaller shops out of business simply because they do not have items to sell.
Post by: Cap.Silver on February 12, 2013, 07:44:42 PM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on February 12, 2013, 08:24:41 PM
All the democrats on the board are not being very supportive of Obama. Come on you guys, buy one for Joe. Make him feel relevant. :tup:
Post by: Jingles on February 12, 2013, 08:39:19 PM
Quote from: chrisb link=topic=118279.msg1560072#msg1560072
[/quote
[/quote
And do you honestly think that this isn't going to be a form of Gun control. Wait til the government decides to slip gun powder and other reloading materials into their background check requirements or limits the amount a person can purchase.
That's a great point... think of how these businesses are supposed to survive if any type of ban is put in place. What about when the supply chain truly is dried up? they need to make money now to live on for a potentially very long time.
Post by: mountainman on February 13, 2013, 08:05:59 AM
ChrisB-
You're very close on that statement. It answer a previous question, yes, our margins have gone up. This is a necessity not to gouge but for the survival of the business. Small business lives off of cash flow and everyday we have a certain amount of overhead we have to meet in profit just to pay the expenses of the day. When supply is plentiful and we can keep product on the shelves, it is easy to run at lower margins and sell higher volumes to make up the daily minimum. In this current situation though, we cannot sell in volume simply because of the restrictions of supply so we are forced to make up that amount of finance by increase margin on the products that we do have available.
I hope that is beneficial explanation of the way a store works with its financial obligations on a daily basis. You can run a high volume at a low margin, or you can run a Higher Margin at a lower volume but in the end, you must make the minimum to survive. The limits on volume are forcing everyone to higher margins. There are also extremes to it. You can run super high volumes at no margin or you can run super high margins at no volume, both result in failure. It is a constant balancing act.
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
Nicely put buddy
Post by: huntnphool on February 13, 2013, 08:25:40 PM
I was there the other day and picked up several bricks of 525 .22LR for $34.99 each, not what it used to be but certainly not that bad a price for right now either.$1.00 a cartridge for. 223 and $ .55 for 7.62x39? $1000 for a delton basic upper? $30 for tapco Ak Mag's. $50 for pmags. $210 for a Vortex Strikefire scope? WTF? And not a single firearm for sale in the place. I hope the consumer will remember the AFing we are getting now, 6 months from now. I will not forget.
Went in there sat. Supposedly they lost or are being delayed in renewal of FFL so no guns. Did u see .22LR ammo at $55/525 rds? Lol.
The reason they have not got guns on display is they are in the process of opening another store, downtown tacoma by the elephant car wash. The rules have some issue with them dispaying guns in the existing location until the new store is opened or some weird deal. They will have their guns back up soon.
Post by: KelseyH on February 14, 2013, 05:32:50 PM
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
Post by: cohoho on February 15, 2013, 10:02:07 AM
Post by: WSU on February 15, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
Post by: xd2005 on February 15, 2013, 01:13:53 PM
Uh, not sure about the posting guns in one place while opening another. We didn't have to do that when we opened the Moses Lake store.
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
My understanding, and I could be wrong, was that they are in the process of moving locations and moving the FFL address at the time of renewal. For one reason or another the transfer/renewal has taken more time than anticipated and I think they may currently be without an FFL until it all gets resolved.
Post by: KelseyH on February 15, 2013, 02:47:37 PM
Post by: actionshooter on February 15, 2013, 03:16:13 PM
Uh, not sure about the posting guns in one place while opening another. We didn't have to do that when we opened the Moses Lake store.
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
My understanding, and I could be wrong, was that they are in the process of moving locations and moving the FFL address at the time of renewal. For one reason or another the transfer/renewal has taken more time than anticipated and I think they may currently be without an FFL until it all gets resolved.
This is correct.
Post by: gasman on February 15, 2013, 05:11:07 PM
Uh, not sure about the posting guns in one place while opening another. We didn't have to do that when we opened the Moses Lake store.
Kelsey
High Mountain Hunting Supply, LLC
My understanding, and I could be wrong, was that they are in the process of moving locations and moving the FFL address at the time of renewal. For one reason or another the transfer/renewal has taken more time than anticipated and I think they may currently be without an FFL until it all gets resolved.
Thats what I thought, but according to the employee's they are going to have two store locations open for business and double the inventory.
There FB page said they were moving after the first of the year. separating the online store from the retail store, but that has changed as of when I was there last week.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 15, 2013, 06:02:02 PM
I don't see MidwayUSA, Brownells, SportsmansGuide, BravoCompany, NatchezSS, DelTon, LaRue, etc charging 4-10 times the price on stuff.
I do see CheaperThanDirt charging 10 times the cost of a PMAG though, and they're on my list. Discount Guns in Seattle (not Federal Way, they're usually excellent about prices and unrelated to the one in Seattle), Bear Arms in Kent, SurplusArmsAmmo in Lakewood, and CheaperThanDirt.com are all on my do not buy list for gouging. HS Precision Stocks, Ruger (Bill Ruger wrote key parts the first assault ban), and Smith & Wesson (complicit with the Clinton admin in anti gun activities) are all on my do not buy list for political activities.
STI, Barrett, LaRue, and Olympic Arms have all taken stands against states passing more restrictive guns laws and restricted their sales in those states accordingly. If the citizens aren't allowed to use the stuff, they won't sell it to those states LE departments either. They are all on the list of companies I support, along with the ones mentioned above for not gouging me.
I don't know about you guys, but I'm taking screen caps of all the businesses that are gouging people right now and adding them to a list of companies I will no longer do business with. There are plenty of companies not trying to screw me over right now I'd gladly give my business to instead.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 15, 2013, 06:05:17 PM
Post by: actionshooter on February 15, 2013, 06:45:51 PM
HS Precision Stocks, Ruger (Bill Ruger wrote key parts the first assault ban), and Smith & Wesson (complicit with the Clinton admin in anti gun activities) are all on my do not buy list for political activities.
You should reconsider your views on Ruger and S&W
S&W was owned by a British company during that period. They are now owned by an American, very pro-citizen, pro-2nd amendment company.
Bill Ruger died and when he did, so did the companies anti- black rifle policies.
Post by: dscubame on February 15, 2013, 07:10:20 PM
Talk about a way to build a long term client base for the long run rather than being so short minded.
I even got a stripped lower just a couple weeks ago for the same ole price of $99.
Post by: mkcj on February 15, 2013, 07:45:52 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on February 15, 2013, 07:57:08 PM
....this criminal pricing scheme....
Yeah?
Wow, I should have filed indictments against all the floral shops in town for selling a dozen roses for 3x what they were selling for the prior week.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 15, 2013, 08:07:53 PM
Post by: gasman on February 15, 2013, 08:09:02 PM
They are selling Pmags for $55 and highly increased there prices on most of there inventory.
I was told last week that when they get there BCG in they will up in the $400 range :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: They claimed that there supplier has raised there prices :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
They are selling stripped lowers for $299 ($99 in Dec) and lower parts kits were selling for $100 last month (were only $75 in Dec.)
Post by: KFhunter on February 15, 2013, 08:15:31 PM
glad I bought what I needed before sandy hook
Post by: jackelope on February 15, 2013, 08:17:27 PM
....this criminal pricing scheme....
Yeah?
Wow, I should have filed indictments against all the floral shops in town for selling a dozen roses for 3x what they were selling for the prior week.
I did cave to that gouging.
:bash:
Maybe we should have a class action lawsuit.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 15, 2013, 08:39:04 PM
Quote
Better add J&S to that list then.
They are selling Pmags for $55 and highly increased there prices on most of there inventory.
I was told last week that when they get there BCG in they will up in the $400 range :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: They claimed that there supplier has raised there prices :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
They are selling stripped lowers for $299 ($99 in Dec) and lower parts kits were selling for $100 last month (were only $75 in Dec.)
J&S Gunparts in Olympia? Their webpage still says PMAGs are $13. CheaperThanDirt still wins the dirtbag award. They're selling a single PMAG for $100.
I don't doubt that manufacturers may have raised prices a bit to offset their costs of running people on overtime or adding new shifts to meet demand and stuff, but there is no way the price should be 3+ times higher. Worst case I could see is them having to pay their employees double time to play catch up, even then that wouldn't double the price of the item because the entire cost of producing the item is not labor, part of the cost would be materials, logistics, etc.
Post by: gasman on February 15, 2013, 08:42:06 PM
QuoteBetter add J&S to that list then.
They are selling Pmags for $55 and highly increased there prices on most of there inventory.
I was told last week that when they get there BCG in they will up in the $400 range :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: They claimed that there supplier has raised there prices :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
They are selling stripped lowers for $299 ($99 in Dec) and lower parts kits were selling for $100 last month (were only $75 in Dec.)
J&S Gunparts in Olympia? Their webpage still says PMAGs are $13. CheaperThanDirt still wins the dirtbag award. They're selling a single PMAG for $100.
I don't doubt that manufacturers may have raised prices a bit to offset their costs of running people on overtime or adding new shifts to meet demand and stuff, but there is no way the price should be 3+ times higher. Worst case I could see is them having to pay their employees double time to play catch up, even then that wouldn't double the price of the item because the entire cost of producing the item is not labor, part of the cost would be materials, logistics, etc.
Yep, J&S in Oly. If you can order form ther web site for $13 then got for it because they are $55 in the store. I was there last weekend.
Post by: actionshooter on February 15, 2013, 09:46:45 PM
Better add J&S to that list then.I do know that the guys J&S buy the lowers from have broke it off in their backside. John didn't want to pay that much but it was pay the price or not have any lowers. I also saw him PAYING .75 a round for 5.56 just to have some.
They are selling Pmags for $55 and highly increased there prices on most of there inventory.
I was told last week that when they get there BCG in they will up in the $400 range :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: They claimed that there supplier has raised there prices :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
They are selling stripped lowers for $299 ($99 in Dec) and lower parts kits were selling for $100 last month (were only $75 in Dec.)
Not trying to stick up for the cost, just facts
Post by: mountainman on February 16, 2013, 08:53:04 AM
Better add J&S to that list then.I do know that the guys J&S buy the lowers from have broke it off in their backside. John didn't want to pay that much but it was pay the price or not have any lowers. I also saw him PAYING .75 a round for 5.56 just to have some.
They are selling Pmags for $55 and highly increased there prices on most of there inventory.
I was told last week that when they get there BCG in they will up in the $400 range :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: :yike: They claimed that there supplier has raised there prices :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
They are selling stripped lowers for $299 ($99 in Dec) and lower parts kits were selling for $100 last month (were only $75 in Dec.)
Not trying to stick up for the cost, just facts
Agreed. Not many understand the market balance betwenn demand, cost, pricing..Yes, there is alot of gouging going on, but cost rise, contrary to what some believe..just because a website has things listed at pre Sandy Hook prices, but have everything on backorder, or cancelling orders because of unability to fill?? Some will even sell some items at a loss to get customers their direction..and good for them if thats their gameplan. Its a crazy market as we all know and their are crazy business practices going on also. All depends on how bad a person wants/needs a product balanced with how long they will wait/pay for that item..been in this business many years and you will always have buyers at both ends of the spectrum.. :twocents:
Post by: xd2005 on February 16, 2013, 12:27:42 PM
It turns out they moved their FFL to the new store, but the transfer went faster than expected and the new Tacoma store is not ready yet. The new FFL for the Lakewood store is still in process. So Tacoma will be a continuation of the old Lakewood store and Lakewood will technically be a new location.
Post by: Special T on February 16, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 16, 2013, 02:04:30 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on February 16, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
... I won't do business with any company that exploits that position. If that means I can't have something right now, so be it. I'd rather wait and give my money to an honest business than deal with a company that exploits it's customers.
Once again, your word choice is rather telling.
There is nothing inherently dishonest about chosing the price point that they want to sell at, marking it at that point, and seeing how the market responds. If you've taken a business law class, you should know that an advertised price is merely a solicitation for offers. There's nothing against the law about you taking a product up to the counter and saying to the store owner "hey, I'll give you twenty bucks for this" and seeing how it goes.
I find you and the other whiners to be the more 'dishonest' in this story. I think a lot of you grumbling about how you'll never do business with x or y company again will probably be seen back in there sooner or later if prices return to normal. :twocents:
Post by: mountainman on February 16, 2013, 03:14:58 PM
Agreed and well put!... I won't do business with any company that exploits that position. If that means I can't have something right now, so be it. I'd rather wait and give my money to an honest business than deal with a company that exploits it's customers.
Once again, your word choice is rather telling.
There is nothing inherently dishonest about chosing the price point that they want to sell at, marking it at that point, and seeing how the market responds. If you've taken a business law class, you should know that an advertised price is merely a solicitation for offers. There's nothing against the law about you taking a product up to the counter and saying to the store owner "hey, I'll give you twenty bucks for this" and seeing how it goes.
I find you and the other whiners to be the more 'dishonest' in this story. I think a lot of you grumbling about how you'll never do business with x or y company again will probably be seen back in there sooner or later if prices return to normal. :twocents:
Post by: actionshooter on February 16, 2013, 03:26:39 PM
Some people act like its a right to be buy what they want for what they believe is a reasonable price.
Nothing wrong with not liking a buisiness practice and deciding you won't shop with them anymore. Thats a chance those guys are taking, but I'm not going to blame them either. Believe it or not this hysteria is going to be hard on gunshops in general.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 16, 2013, 04:34:05 PM
Quote
Once again, your word choice is rather telling.
There is nothing inherently dishonest about chosing the price point that they want to sell at, marking it at that point, and seeing how the market responds. If you've taken a business law class, you should know that an advertised price is merely a solicitation for offers. There's nothing against the law about you taking a product up to the counter and saying to the store owner "hey, I'll give you twenty bucks for this" and seeing how it goes.
You don't believe there is anything dishonest in marking a price to 10 times it's value and 3 times it's going rate? I'm curious exactly how you would take a product to the counter of a web based business as well.
Quote
I find you and the other whiners to be the more 'dishonest' in this story. I think a lot of you grumbling about how you'll never do business with x or y company again will probably be seen back in there sooner or later if prices return to normal. :twocents:
What's with your personal attacks of people you've never met and know nothing about?
They're free to sell it at that price, but because of it, I choose not to support them, now or ever again. I don't find their behavior acceptable, and think they're taking advantage of people who may not know better. You obviously feel differently about it, but that's no reason to call me dishonest or a whiner. You know absolutely nothing about me.
Post by: mountainman on February 16, 2013, 05:00:30 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on February 16, 2013, 05:04:31 PM
You don't believe there is anything dishonest in marking a price to 10 times it's value and 3 times it's going rate? I'm curious exactly how you would take a product to the counter of a web based business as well.
No. The word dishonest to me means to mislead someone or lie to them. If they put a quote up on their store front or on their website that read something like: "Our last shipment of 30rd magazines cost us $39 each and we're only marking them up $1 to a selling price of $40" but in truth they bought magazines at $11/ea, then THAT would be dishonest. Where are these gun salesmen lying to you? You are impugning their integrity without merit. They get enough from the leftist tyrants in government, colleges, and the media.
Its their business that they worked hard and took risks to open. Don't like it? Open up your own business and sell magazines for $25/ea. You'll get a flood of business, probably create jobs, and generate tax revenue. And I will commend you for it.
Quote
What's with your personal attacks of people you've never met and know nothing about?See above. You are attacking them and you don't know them, either. I'd love to go on an Alaska stone sheep hunt and I doubt their expenses come close to the $25,000-40,000 that they advertise their hunts for. Maybe someday I'll be able to afford it, maybe not. Either way I'm not going to hurl insults at the way they conduct their business.
I've said this before but I'll say this again. People like you ought to be mad at yourself. You should have known this was coming and stocked up as far back as the summer of 2008 if not sooner. You make gun owners look bad. We went through this panic before and prices subsided and stayed there for several years. Many people took this for granted. If the Dem-tards had more political muster in Congress I doubt you'd be looking at a black market for magazines and they would cost $200 each.
Quote
They're free to sell it at that price, but because of it, I choose not to support them, now or ever again. I don't find their behavior acceptable, and think they're taking advantage of people who may not know better. You obviously feel differently about it, but that's no reason to call me dishonest or a whiner. You know absolutely nothing about me.
Agree to disagree. How much more do you know about individual gun shop owners that you accuse of criminal and dishonest activity? Your words and opinions reveal a lot about you, whether or not we've actually met in person.
Post by: mkcj on February 16, 2013, 06:03:57 PM
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 16, 2013, 06:24:13 PM
Quote
See above. You are attacking them and you don't know them, either. I'd love to go on an Alaska stone sheep hunt and I doubt their expenses come close to the $25,000-40,000 that they advertise their hunts for. Maybe someday I'll be able to afford it, maybe not. Either way I'm not going to hurl insults at the way they conduct their business.
I've said this before but I'll say this again. People like you ought to be mad at yourself. You should have known this was coming and stocked up as far back as the summer of 2008 if not sooner. You make gun owners look bad. We went through this panic before and prices subsided and stayed there for several years. Many people took this for granted. If the Dem-tards had more political muster in Congress I doubt you'd be looking at a black market for magazines and they would cost $200 each.
Again with your personal attacks. You know absolutely nothing about me. I have plenty of magazines and don't need to buy any. I feel bad for the people that do need some mags or people who are new to our sport. People you seem to think it OK to take advantage of. I think many of the people now faced with paying these prices are people "new to the game" so to speak. They have no extra gear and don't know or are afraid of how this will turn out. You and I have gone through this panic before, but others may not have. Does that make it OK to take advantage of their fear or uncertainty? Especially when the vast majority of sellers haven't changed prices at all? Is that how you would welcome new gun owners to the community? By fleecing them out of their hard earned money? Is it better for gun owners if that guy can buy 5 more magazines or a new gun for his wife? Some guy or some kid that got a gun for Christmas and now can't buy mags for it is a moron for not planning ahead?
Quote
Agree to disagree. How much more do you know about individual gun shop owners that you accuse of criminal and dishonest activity? Your words and opinions reveal a lot about you, whether or not we've actually met in person.
I can tell from their pricing, especially when compared to their competitors pricing, that their actions are disingenuous at best.
If we had 9 guys in a row selling product A for $10, and 1 guy, call him Bill, selling the same product for $100, what would be your impression of Bill? That he's an honest business man just trying to get by? Or that he is trying to con people? Maybe you'd think he's a hell of a salesman. If someone bought his product, I'd agree, and I'd also call the person who bought it a fool or misinformed.
You get on here and personally attack people for informing others that they're are being charged an unfair price, and you know nothing about them. You criticize others who may or may not have what you have, in spite of whatever circumstances may have put them there. You say I give gun owners a bad name and you've never seen hide nor hair of me. Your words and opinions speak volumes of you as well.
Post by: SGTDuffman on February 16, 2013, 06:34:32 PM
Post by: Sliverslinger on February 16, 2013, 06:49:28 PM
Post by: actionshooter on February 16, 2013, 09:10:07 PM
Hey guys, I am just as ticked as everyone out there about what's going on with prices and shortages, and there definitely are a lot of people absolutely gouging in order to take advantage of the rush. However, supply and demand also plays a significant role. To put it simply - Let's say I own ABC Guns and in order to cover my overhead/ fixed costs and pay myself and my staff a salary let's say I need to make a $1,000 profit each month (for simplicity). Prior to this whole fiasco, I bought 10 AR's per months from Olympic Arms for $100 each and I sold them for $200 each so I made $100 per gun and after selling ten guns I made my $1,000. Now demand goes through the roof but supply cannot keep up and Olympic Arms tells me that they can only give sell me 5 guns per month. However, in order to keep my store open and pay the bills I still need $1,000 per month. Now I have to raise my prices and sell those 5 guns for $300 instead of $200 (assuming Oly Arms is still only charging me $100 per AR) so that I make $200 initial profit per rifle and can get the $1,000 I need to pay bills and my own salary. Because demand is so high, people are willing to pay the %50 increase in price. Gouging would be if I said, demand is high and people will pay double and I'd really like to have an extra $1,000 so I'm going to charge $500 per rifle and see if people will pay it. Granted, this is a very simplistic example that ignores many other variables, but it illustrates that some of these dealers have no choice but to raise their prices just to stay afloat in the wake of decreased supply.
Thats exactly the point others have tried to make (very accurate), some people are having a hard time understanding that.
With this limited supply, some of the small guys are going to end up going out of business.
Post by: mountainman on February 16, 2013, 09:28:13 PM
Hey guys, I am just as ticked as everyone out there about what's going on with prices and shortages, and there definitely are a lot of people absolutely gouging in order to take advantage of the rush. However, supply and demand also plays a significant role. To put it simply - Let's say I own ABC Guns and in order to cover my overhead/ fixed costs and pay myself and my staff a salary let's say I need to make a $1,000 profit each month (for simplicity). Prior to this whole fiasco, I bought 10 AR's per months from Olympic Arms for $100 each and I sold them for $200 each so I made $100 per gun and after selling ten guns I made my $1,000. Now demand goes through the roof but supply cannot keep up and Olympic Arms tells me that they can only give sell me 5 guns per month. However, in order to keep my store open and pay the bills I still need $1,000 per month. Now I have to raise my prices and sell those 5 guns for $300 instead of $200 (assuming Oly Arms is still only charging me $100 per AR) so that I make $200 initial profit per rifle and can get the $1,000 I need to pay bills and my own salary. Because demand is so high, people are willing to pay the %50 increase in price. Gouging would be if I said, demand is high and people will pay double and I'd really like to have an extra $1,000 so I'm going to charge $500 per rifle and see if people will pay it. Granted, this is a very simplistic example that ignores many other variables, but it illustrates that some of these dealers have no choice but to raise their prices just to stay afloat in the wake of decreased supply.Nicely put :tup:
Post by: gasman on February 16, 2013, 09:49:01 PM
Hey guys, I am just as ticked as everyone out there about what's going on with prices and shortages, and there definitely are a lot of people absolutely gouging in order to take advantage of the rush. However, supply and demand also plays a significant role. To put it simply - Let's say I own ABC Guns and in order to cover my overhead/ fixed costs and pay myself and my staff a salary let's say I need to make a $1,000 profit each month (for simplicity). Prior to this whole fiasco, I bought 10 AR's per months from Olympic Arms for $100 each and I sold them for $200 each so I made $100 per gun and after selling ten guns I made my $1,000. Now demand goes through the roof but supply cannot keep up and Olympic Arms tells me that they can only give sell me 5 guns per month. However, in order to keep my store open and pay the bills I still need $1,000 per month. Now I have to raise my prices and sell those 5 guns for $300 instead of $200 (assuming Oly Arms is still only charging me $100 per AR) so that I make $200 initial profit per rifle and can get the $1,000 I need to pay bills and my own salary. Because demand is so high, people are willing to pay the %50 increase in price. Gouging would be if I said, demand is high and people will pay double and I'd really like to have an extra $1,000 so I'm going to charge $500 per rifle and see if people will pay it. Granted, this is a very simplistic example that ignores many other variables, but it illustrates that some of these dealers have no choice but to raise their prices just to stay afloat in the wake of decreased supply.
Your right.
and now with the rush gone you are sitting on a stock pile of supply that is no longer flying off the shelf and and make less money :tup:
This is proven by the supply still on the shelf and no one buying your supply, you cant afford to drop the price because you will not make any money to keep the gouging shop open :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: actionshooter on February 16, 2013, 09:52:17 PM
Hey guys, I am just as ticked as everyone out there about what's going on with prices and shortages, and there definitely are a lot of people absolutely gouging in order to take advantage of the rush. However, supply and demand also plays a significant role. To put it simply - Let's say I own ABC Guns and in order to cover my overhead/ fixed costs and pay myself and my staff a salary let's say I need to make a $1,000 profit each month (for simplicity). Prior to this whole fiasco, I bought 10 AR's per months from Olympic Arms for $100 each and I sold them for $200 each so I made $100 per gun and after selling ten guns I made my $1,000. Now demand goes through the roof but supply cannot keep up and Olympic Arms tells me that they can only give sell me 5 guns per month. However, in order to keep my store open and pay the bills I still need $1,000 per month. Now I have to raise my prices and sell those 5 guns for $300 instead of $200 (assuming Oly Arms is still only charging me $100 per AR) so that I make $200 initial profit per rifle and can get the $1,000 I need to pay bills and my own salary. Because demand is so high, people are willing to pay the %50 increase in price. Gouging would be if I said, demand is high and people will pay double and I'd really like to have an extra $1,000 so I'm going to charge $500 per rifle and see if people will pay it. Granted, this is a very simplistic example that ignores many other variables, but it illustrates that some of these dealers have no choice but to raise their prices just to stay afloat in the wake of decreased supply.
Your right.
and now with the rush gone you are sitting on a stock pile of supply that is no longer flying off the shelf and and make less money :tup:
AND everyone who wanted that new gun or more mags has already bought and your not going to sell crap for the next 6 months......
Post by: mountainman on February 16, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
Post by: actionshooter on February 16, 2013, 10:37:43 PM
I dont see the rush as being over yet, at least not on my side of the mountains. Have seen ar's slow a tad, and a huge increase in reloading components, but taken as a whole, no slowdown yet.I agree but prices are dropping and some items are becoming a little easier to find.
I use gunbroker as a indicator and its been consistantly slowing.
Post by: gasman on February 17, 2013, 07:16:09 AM
Gun prices dropping, people are not paying the inflated prices and sellers are dropping there asking price. Its evident here on this site by the price drop of the ammo and AR's trying to be sold.
Its just a matter of stock being add to many places and we are starting to see high demand items slowly making it to the comsumer.
Yes it will take a while to get 100% caught up, but its a start.
Post by: Jekemi on February 17, 2013, 03:11:24 PM
Post by: mountainman on February 17, 2013, 03:26:35 PM
Just got back from Cabela's North. Shelves bare, no primers, few bullets, no gunpowder. It's this way all over. Wal-Mart has been out its .22 LR bricks for months now. I asked the guy at Cabela's what's going on; "We can't find the stuff anywhere." I called HSM on Friday. Three shifts, 24 hours a day production. When the largest outfitter in the world can't buy ammo you know something is crazy. This is a forum, we ask questions and get answers. What the heck is going on? Somebody is buying a lot of ammunition.
Far from slowing down yet...
Post by: huntnphool on February 27, 2013, 06:33:12 PM
Post by: mountainman on February 27, 2013, 07:39:28 PM
Post by: actionshooter on February 27, 2013, 07:42:03 PM
Post by: gasman on February 27, 2013, 07:42:44 PM
My dad and brother went in there today and picked up some ammo, my brother called to let me know that they had 5.7 ammo in stock, I got excited until he told me the price. $75/box. :yike:
And people say they are not price gouging :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Oh.............. wait.................. there being capitalistic :DOH: :DOH: :DOH: :DOH: :DOH:
Post by: h2ofowlr on February 27, 2013, 07:44:36 PM
My dad and brother went in there today and picked up some ammo, my brother called to let me know that they had 5.7 ammo in stock, I got excited until he told me the price. $75/box. :yike:
And people say they are not price gouging :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Oh.............. wait.................. there being capitalistic :DOH: :DOH: :DOH: :DOH: :DOH:
Just early preperation for what's to come. Ammo prices of the future. You will save all year to go shooting over a weekend.
Post by: Jekemi on March 05, 2013, 07:10:33 AM
Post by: SGTDuffman on March 05, 2013, 12:32:09 PM
$85 for a box of .22 and they aren't gouging people? Remington Golden is probably THE worst .22 ammo made too. If you can stumble across it at Cabelas, it's $24.
Post by: dscubame on March 05, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on March 06, 2013, 08:14:43 AM
This pic was originally posted up in this thread: ...
$85 for a box of .22 and they aren't gouging people? Remington Golden is probably THE worst .22 ammo made too. If you can stumble across it at Cabelas, it's $24.
There is enough crude supply, high technology, and a supply of qualified workers that gasoline shouldn't cost more than $1.50 a gallon. Maybe we should be little children and bitch at Exxon Mobil for charging $4.00+ for a gallon of gas.
Post by: sirmissalot on March 06, 2013, 08:44:44 AM
This pic was originally posted up in this thread: ...
$85 for a box of .22 and they aren't gouging people? Remington Golden is probably THE worst .22 ammo made too. If you can stumble across it at Cabelas, it's $24.
There is enough crude supply, high technology, and a supply of qualified workers that gasoline shouldn't cost more than $1.50 a gallon. Maybe we should be little children and bitch at Exxon Mobil for charging $4.00+ for a gallon of gas.
I see your point, but it would be different if we were bitching at Chevron for $4 gas, while we could still get it at costco for $1.50, only we had to wait in line for hours and still usually didn't get to fill up because the supply doesn't last. Not sure there would be any money made at $1.50 a gallon, haven't seen what a barrel of crude is at right now but guessing upper 80's, you'd be losing money right off the get go... raw materials for firearms and ammunition has been rising but not by 2 or 300%
I still agree with the basic principles of supply and demand but I will just choose to not support the places that are making these outrageous markups, just because they can. Its the idiots that are paying these stupid prices that are really gouging us, not so much the retailers. If they are selling 22 ammo by the brick for $90, obviously too many stupid people were paying the $50 a box they were asking before.
Post by: arees on March 06, 2013, 09:08:55 AM
I still agree with the basic principles of supply and demand but I will just choose to not support the places that are making these outrageous markups, just because they can. Its the idiots that are paying these stupid prices that are really gouging us, not so much the retailers. If they are selling 22 ammo by the brick for $90, obviously too many stupid people were paying the $50 a box they were asking before.
I think this is the definition of supply and demand. They have raised the price and reduced the demand (at least by you). If you can have your needs met by a supply at a lower price everything works out well for you. If they sell out to others at the higher price it also works out well for them.
Post by: Bean Counter on March 06, 2013, 10:48:31 AM
I see your point, but it would be different if we were bitching at Chevron for $4 gas, while we could still get it at costco for $1.50, only we had to wait in line for hours and still usually didn't get to fill up because the supply doesn't last. Not sure there would be any money made at $1.50 a gallon, haven't seen what a barrel of crude is at right now but guessing upper 80's, you'd be losing money right off the get go... raw materials for firearms and ammunition has been rising but not by 2 or 300%
With all due respect, some of the ammunition components have risen a lot more than 200-300%. http://ewweb.com/current_copper_prices/electric_red_metal_raging/ (http://ewweb.com/current_copper_prices/electric_red_metal_raging/)
http://www.adn.com/2008/06/01/422941/biting-the-bullet-ammo-prices.html (http://www.adn.com/2008/06/01/422941/biting-the-bullet-ammo-prices.html)
I'm actually quite impressed that I used to buy gasoline in the late 1990s for about $1.00 a gallon when the price of crude oil--the primary raw material, was $10-15 a barrel. When oil jumped to $150 a barrel, we were only paying $4.50 a gallon tops. That's a ten to fifteen fold increase in the raw material and a only a four fold increase in the price at the pump. I find that quite impressive. Regardless: I couldn't refine gasoline myself for a cost of less than $4.00 a gallon, I wouldn't want to even if I knew how, and I could easily adjust my behaviors accordingly to make ends meet. Bitching at Exxon Mobil for posting $38 billion in profit in 2005 while making a quality product and not cutting corners on quality doesn't make my life any better. If you don't like the price of something, don't buy it. Find a substitute, make it yourself, or adjust behaviors.
Quote
I still agree with the basic principles of supply and demand but I will just choose to not support the places that are making these outrageous markups, just because they can. Its the idiots that are paying these stupid prices that are really gouging us, not so much the retailers. If they are selling 22 ammo by the brick for $90, obviously too many stupid people were paying the $50 a box they were asking before.
"idiots paying stupid prices"... Wow, now we're attacking other gun owners, in addition to merchants. I don't think any of this helps us. I have no problem with a merchant selling his .22lr ammo for $90 a brick if he has customers willing to pay that much for it. The antis would like to put all gun shops, manufacturers, and distributors out of business. Us being a house divided doesn't really help.
Post by: sirmissalot on March 06, 2013, 11:00:52 AM
Its just my opinion that people paying these stupid prices are just not smart people. I have seen you comment several times that people were dumb for not seeing this coming and stocking up... how are we different bean? I am one of these stupid people that didn't stock up like you think I should have, honestly never paid any attention to it, all my life I've been able to go to the store and buy ammo or reloading supplies, just never thought it was needed to stock up on something that seemed readily available. Lesson learned, but I'm still not paying these inflated prices, regular prices are around, just got to be patient. I've got a good supply now :tup:
Post by: Bean Counter on March 06, 2013, 11:18:09 AM
Those articles say nothing about cost of raw materials rising 2-300% since November, I think we all know and agree the cost of everything has been steadily rising for some time.
Agreed. But what is not being appreciated, which I alluded to with the gas companies, is that they've either found more efficient manners of bringing product to market, or they've given up some profit margin % to help keep prices fairly low. Prices for both products have risen a lot less than the price of the direct raw materials that go into making them. The gun and gas companies didn't make the price of raw materials go up.
Quote
One event caused this price increase, and its not in all places, just the guys who feel the need. I'm not attacking those retailers, just saying, again, that I won't support them :dunno:
Fair enough.
Its just my opinion that people paying these stupid prices are just not smart people. I have seen you comment several times that people were dumb for not seeing this coming and stocking up... how are we different bean? I am one of these stupid people that didn't stock up like you think I should have, honestly never paid any attention to it, all my life I've been able to go to the store and buy ammo or reloading supplies, just never thought it was needed to stock up on something that seemed readily available. Lesson learned, but I'm still not paying these inflated prices, regular prices are around, just got to be patient. I've got a good supply now :tup:
Again, fair enough. I'd be here all day listing the lessons I've learned from the University of Hard Knocks. :hello:
Post by: SGTDuffman on March 06, 2013, 02:17:52 PM
This pic was originally posted up in this thread: ...
$85 for a box of .22 and they aren't gouging people? Remington Golden is probably THE worst .22 ammo made too. If you can stumble across it at Cabelas, it's $24.
There is enough crude supply, high technology, and a supply of qualified workers that gasoline shouldn't cost more than $1.50 a gallon. Maybe we should be little children and bitch at Exxon Mobil for charging $4.00+ for a gallon of gas.
Apples to oranges. If Exxon were the only one charging $5.31/gal (SAA is charging 3.54 times more than Cabelas. 3.54*1.50 = $5.31) while everyone else charged $1.50, I guarantee people would be claiming they're gouging. When you can look at almost every other retailer and see they aren't charging the same prices, any argument about supply and demand goes out the window. If everyone else can continue selling the product for prices at or near what they were before this hysteria, there is no justification for some companies to charge 3-10 times that price.
Pay it if you want to, I won't, and I would encourage others to support businesses that avoided resorting to such practices in the future. The fact that some business have resorted to such practices now tells me a few things about those businesses. They are either: a) poorly run, because they have no other sources of revenue or financial cushioning, b) the owners have no problem taking advantage of their customers and profiting off of and creating fear, c) they favor short term profits over their customers, or d) any combination of the above.
Companies that do this do as much to divide gun owners as anything else. They are effectively financially banning people from purchasing ammo. Instead of being able to shoot well over a thousand rounds, you now can only afford 500, maybe you can't afford it at all. I'm pretty sure one of the big selling points for why most people got a .22 was because ammunition was cheap and plentiful. Though it isn't as plentiful as it was a few months ago, it is still available to those willing to wait, and it isn't any more expensive than it used to be (the last 4 or 5 years or so anyways), unless you buy it from someone seeking to take advantage of you.
I'd rather sit on backorder with Brownells, Midway, Natchez, Cabelas, etc, or buy from an individual on Gunbroker than give my money to a company that thinks nothing of pricing new gun owners and the like out of their arms. It's a free market and people are free to pay or charge whatever they want, but don't act surprised if that leaves some people with a sour taste in their mouth and hurts those companies doing it in the long run. Other relatively small gun shops like Fed Way haven't resorted to such pricing, and last time I was there, they had .22 in stock. You can try to justify SAA's pricing any way you'd like, but you're only going to convince yourself. When 99 out of 100 other businesses haven't done it, there's no reason for them to do it either.
Post by: Bean Counter on March 06, 2013, 02:42:15 PM
Post by: h20hunter on March 06, 2013, 02:50:40 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 06, 2013, 05:29:50 PM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: actionshooter on March 06, 2013, 06:44:54 PM
I look at it like I look at free speech. They are welcome to say/charge what they want and I say more power to them. However, they must live with the consequences of their actions. Like I said I have NO problem with them pricing their product at whatever price point they choose. I don't find it evil or wrong. HOWEVER, they in turn should have no problem and understand when I never shop at their store again...
sent from my typewriter
I agree 100%
This is still America, they own it and they can do what they want with it.
In turn everyone else has the freedom to chose to shop where they want.
Post by: thinkingman on March 06, 2013, 08:48:26 PM
XOM only charges about $2.50.This pic was originally posted up in this thread: ...
$85 for a box of .22 and they aren't gouging people? Remington Golden is probably THE worst .22 ammo made too. If you can stumble across it at Cabelas, it's $24.
There is enough crude supply, high technology, and a supply of qualified workers that gasoline shouldn't cost more than $1.50 a gallon. Maybe we should be little children and bitch at Exxon Mobil for charging $4.00+ for a gallon of gas.
The rest is delivery/retail markup and taxes.
Vote with your dollars.
Post by: Carl on March 06, 2013, 09:18:47 PM
Here is an easy solution........don't buy it. Most of us don't HAVE to have extra ammo on hand. We may want to...but we don't HAVE to. Stop buying it and paying the prices and the stock will go up and the price will come down.
That's what I'm saying! :yeah: