Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 09:15:38 AM
WDFW thought they were going to break the meeting into small groups, Len McIrvin stood up and said "No, this group wants to stay together as one group!" after loud applause faded WDFW continued explaining how the evening would be handled. Len McIrvin spoke up again and said "Maybe you didn't understand were staying together as one group so everyone can hear what each other has to say!" Once they started calling on people to ask questions McIrvin explained that the WDFW did not remove the whole wedge pack, within 2 days there were more wolves near their cattle. Another thing McIrvin stated later in the evening is that he and his family were threatened by WDFW that if any wolf was found dead they would be fully investigated and their firearms taken from their homes and ballistic tests done.
County commissioners were present and two of them spoke out. Mike Blankenship, Ferry County Commissioner, said they need to go back to Olympia and explain to the director that wolves are out of control. Steve Parker, Stevens County Commissioner, wanted to know who was involved in the threat to McIrvins of a full investigation and confiscation of firearms. WDFW personnel at the meeting said they didn't know, Steve Parker said he wanted a reply from WDFW on who threatened the McIrvins, he made it clear he expected a reply.
Many people spoke about subjects such as Joel Kretz's legislation to move wolves to western WA, why wolves were illegally introduced, laws that were violated, wolf tapeworms, agenda 21, a young girl nearly broke into tears explaining that she has goats and sheep and her parents are not allowed to protect them, an old lady said she is afraid to walk outside her home because of all the wolf sightings near her home. Hunters and landowners talked about how deer are disappearing in many areas, places where it was normal to see 100 to 200 deer in alfalfa fields and now only 20 to 30 deer remain.
I told them I was insulted that they were telling us they are surprised at how fast wolves have multiplied after knowing and seeing what happened in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, I spoke about how residents in Idaho were taking care of the problem in Idaho and that WDFW was going to force people in NE WA to do the same. I spoke of restaurant and motel owners in Idaho who were forced out of business, how Idaho F&G has lost millions in funding which means small communities have lost far more in their economies with many businesses shutting down. I explained how important hunting is to our local economy and that local people depend on wildlife to feed their families. I noted that I always reported poachers in the past but I would never report a wolf poacher, I mentioned that Bill White used to live in Colville, he's a good man and that what they did to him and his family was not right, it cost the White's over $100,000, they destroyed his life and his children's lives over two wolves.
I asked why their was only 2 or 3 or 2 1/2 trappers as they had explained it in our state which has thousands of square miles territory and that there should be 15 to 25 trappers to adequately find and collar all the wolf packs. I explained how sightings indicate we have in excess of 100 wolves just in NE WA with at least 15 packs.
A rancher drove up from Lincoln County who has wolves on his ranch and wanted to know why WDFW wasn't trying to help in his county. He said he doesn't have time to babysit a pack of wolves. There were many other questions and comments made by local residents, too many to remember or list. The meeting was very heated at times and no doubt the WDFW got a good taste of local dissatisfaction.
Post by: Houndhunter on February 28, 2013, 09:21:01 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on February 28, 2013, 09:23:33 AM
Post by: 358NM on February 28, 2013, 09:25:02 AM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on February 28, 2013, 09:29:06 AM
Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 09:31:18 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on February 28, 2013, 09:39:16 AM
Post by: huntnphool on February 28, 2013, 09:40:08 AM
Quote
Once they started calling on people to ask questions McIrvin explained that the WDFW did not remove the whole wedge packExactly what I said when they claimed they did, just more political BS and lies.
Quote
they were telling us they are surprised at how fast wolves have multiplied after knowing and seeing what happened in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming,I attended all of those early meetings, there were several people, including Vice Chair Duvia that gave them statistics from those other states. When the estimated numbers where on the screen from their powerpoint presentation Duvia told them flat out that their numbers were way low and asked them why they believed Washington would be any different...................there were crickets!!!
Post by: boneaddict on February 28, 2013, 09:58:59 AM
Post by: hunter-4-life on February 28, 2013, 10:14:05 AM
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 11:08:59 AM
Ive said it here before, wolves are the end run to eliminate hunting. We will all see the need for the state to protect ungulate herds. No hunting, no need for guns. Our legislators, and our governor are moving in that direction. Do not see this as just another state issue, rather its part of the big picture.
People continue to say no hunting, no WDFW LEOs.....well guess what....they are state police, they will not loose their jobs. They are past caring about local impact of any kind....they are part of the machine that is broken. They are quick to say " we work for you ".....so if thats the case, why cant we fire them ? They ALL need firing for derelection of duty for not rising up and being counted in Spokane and Olympia. They go with the flow and survive......just what we need in a situation like this.
We, as hunters and fishers, have an unlimited enemy in this state.....our own regional politicians are so heavily out numbered by the drones of the puget sound basin, it is starting to seem like a no win situation. They ( state managers ) intend to do what they want without regard to anyone else. The antis cancel the votes of our local representation.
I only hope they get to the bottom of who in WDFW threatened McIrvins......a job should be lost in short order.
Post by: AspenBud on February 28, 2013, 11:13:01 AM
Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 11:23:49 AM
One thing is obvious: WDFW is happy suckling on the tit of the wolf. :twocents:
Post by: Kc_Kracker on February 28, 2013, 11:26:26 AM
Post by: h2ofowlr on February 28, 2013, 11:28:03 AM
Post by: CementFinisher on February 28, 2013, 11:31:36 AM
Post by: Curly on February 28, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
They made a slight slip of the lip, not sure how many people caught it, but they said something like "there is a lot of emotion on both sides of the issue and "money" involved with wolves. I caught it and at that point I knew exactly as I previously thought, that what rural people and hunters say matters very little. Unfortunately when I spoke I forgot to comment about that.
One thing is obvious: WDFW is happy suckling on the tit of the wolf. :twocents:
So, from where is WDFW getting money for the wolf? :dunno: Are there groups such as DOW donating money to WDFW? :dunno:
If they want more revenue they could ensure healthy big game herds and thus more licensed hunters. :twocents:
Post by: CementFinisher on February 28, 2013, 11:41:29 AM
Post by: Curly on February 28, 2013, 12:03:27 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 12:12:07 PM
One woman was complimenting them about doing a good job, I figured she was a wolf lover, not one other person who spoke was happy about wolves or the job that WDFW is doing.
This isnt about the Commission...( IMHO ), and they ( WDFW ), are not in denial.....THEY ARE ON SCHEDULE. The politicians of this state are following the lead in DC....And its not new.
I agree that it's not the commission. If you will all remember, the WDFW presented three proposals for the wolf plan and every proposal included 15 BP's, they would not consider less than 15 BP's. They have been pushing for too many wolves from the beginning. The WDFW (dept) owns this catastrophic blunder. But as buckfvr mentioned, this is all supported by government right from the top on down to the states. They are out to eliminate hunting and gun ownership. These managers at the top have nothing to worry about, they will have good paying jobs managing wolves for all the huggers to salivate about.
That reminds me, one speaker recently moved here from Montana, he spoke of the destruction in Montana and then he compared the MT plan for 10 BP's with Washington's plan for 15 BP's and questioned how this would work out since MT is already overrun with wolves and they only wanted 10 BP's.
Also the WDFW made a comment that wolves would eventually be hunted and trapped to control them. People in the audience laughed out loud, myself included, my son spoke out, "How is that supposed to work!" Other people commented how the I-5 wolf lovers would vote out any wolf control. Comments were made about the counties adopting their own wildlife management or completely seceding from Washington.
Thanks, I guess. :bash: I felt better before I knew that the Feds are sending money WDFW's way for wolf recovery. I guess I knew that at one time, but had sort of forgotten.
I think they said about 1/3 of their budget is federal money, likely from Pittman Robertson, I don't have the numbers, but sadly I suspect our tax dollars from sporting goods sales are getting utilized for wolf management. I know for a fact that our dollars got used for the wolf introduction in Idaho and YNP, it has been detailed to congress how USFWS diverted funds.
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 12:38:34 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on February 28, 2013, 12:51:58 PM
Post by: K357** on February 28, 2013, 01:09:09 PM
Post by: Jingles on February 28, 2013, 01:31:58 PM
Post by: AspenBud on February 28, 2013, 01:34:45 PM
Right to hunt legislation along the lines of what Kentucky has is starting to sound better and better. It would help stop this whole mess real quick.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on February 28, 2013, 01:34:52 PM
Anyone else feel like doing a little covert trapping and transporting? maybe we need to assist WDFW and get a pack started on the extreme west side of the mountains. Just need 4 traps and a covered pickup
that would be funny! :bdid:
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 01:39:10 PM
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 01:39:42 PM
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 01:44:06 PM
next time strap a go-pro to your hat and put it on you tube!!Ive got mine, the first meeting I get a chance to attend I will have it on blast.
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 01:45:16 PM
Well said. :tup:They made a slight slip of the lip, not sure how many people caught it, but they said something like "there is a lot of emotion on both sides of the issue and "money" involved with wolves. I caught it and at that point I knew exactly as I previously thought, that what rural people and hunters say matters very little. Unfortunately when I spoke I forgot to comment about that.
One thing is obvious: WDFW is happy suckling on the tit of the wolf. :twocents:
So, from where is WDFW getting money for the wolf? :dunno: Are there groups such as DOW donating money to WDFW? :dunno:
If they want more revenue they could ensure healthy big game herds and thus more licensed hunters. :twocents:
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 01:45:50 PM
Well there gets to be more paid for jobs, funded by the feds for the wolf recovery. that money goes bye bye once we reach our recovery goals. also hsus, dow, and others donate money.Donavon?
Post by: AspenBud on February 28, 2013, 01:47:42 PM
Right to hunt legislation wouldnt even get to a vote in this state......itd be DOA. :twocents:
Has it been tried?
If wolf relocation bills can be put forth so can right to hunt bills.
Tack on right to fish with such a bill or ballot measure and it might stand a chance.
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 01:49:33 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on February 28, 2013, 02:01:07 PM
WDFW held a wolf meeting in Colville last night that was attended by 300+ people. WDFW detailed their compensation program, discussed cattleman's contracts, and how ranchers need to handle predation on cattle.
Dale........
Bear with me as I have been a bit absent from the forum for the past few weeks because work got it in the way. :chuckle:
Questions for you:
1) What was the "purpose" of this meeting? Another one of those feel good moments whereas WDFW has to have a public opinion moment so they can stand back and cram down our throats what their agenda is?
2) Is what the WDFW has proposed deviate from the State's adopted wolf plan, generally speaking?
3) Same question for rancher responsibility regarding predation as #2?
4) Didn't the adopted wolf plan set forth how the management of wolves be funded? And if so, is the WDFW following the method of funding to the letter?
My point in these questions is WDFW accountability. If they are stepping outside of what is already a seriously screwed up wolf plan by setting their own rules and agenda, someone needs to take them to task in this.
Post by: asl20bball on February 28, 2013, 02:19:39 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 02:36:01 PM
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 02:47:13 PM
I'd love to see a class action law suit, us against the state, if thats even possible.........we could show our love and understanding by suing them to shreds.......Im sure the following would be larger then anyone could imagine if it went into play.
Post by: huntnphool on February 28, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Anyone else feel like doing a little covert trapping and transporting? maybe we need to assist WDFW and get a pack started on the extreme west side of the mountains. Just need 4 traps and a covered pickupI don't understand this kind of rational. Because there are wolves destroying the Eastern ungulate population you believe that the only fair thing to do is transport wolves to the West so they can do the same thing there? Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. Why would a "sportsman" ever suggest such a ridiculous idea? :dunno:
Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 05:31:43 PM
6x6x6, they have not deviated from the plan to my knowledge in any way that violates the plan in regards to cattle or ungulates. They said they will hire 4 trappers in 2013, but to my knowledge the number of trappers is not specified in the plan. The only specific numbers that I remember in the plan is 15 BP's of wolves proven and dispersed in the proper number in each wolf recovery area for 3 years or if there is total number of 18 BP's one year before delisting can occur. Last night they admitted we'll likely see 18 BP's before we see 15 BP's for 3 years.
Keep in mind WDFW admits there are likely 100 wolves in Washington, but I think they said there are only 5 proven BP's. Considering the sitings reported here on H-W, I would bet there are actually 2 to 3 times as many wolves on the landscape as they have proven. Using a comparison of their numbers it appears we may have approx 360 known wolves when we reach 18 BP's, and if there are 360 known wolves I would suggest there will actually be closer to 1000 wolves on our landscape.
I think they can manage wolves to protect livestock or if ungulate populations drop below 75%. I'm nearly certain some local areas have already seen more than a 25% loss in ungulates but that will be hard to prove.
McIrvins lost over $100,000 last year, the way I understand it the state only has limited funds for livestock losses with a $5,000 max for any one rancher. So even if McIrvins accepted money it would only be a very small fraction of their loss.
To their credit, WDFW said they would not allow predation to escalate to the point that McIrvins experienced, they said they will act faster to remove problem wolves in the future. They are also starting what appears to be a more responsive investigation team.
This whole wolf mess is going to be a continual battle with WDFW and the wolf lovers.
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
Post by: buckfvr on February 28, 2013, 06:47:21 PM
Post by: bearpaw on February 28, 2013, 06:49:35 PM
Maybe instead of 10 points, they should offer 24/7/365 wolf permits................................. :tup:
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Smossy on February 28, 2013, 06:50:42 PM
Maybe instead of 10 points, they should offer 24/7/365 wolf permits................................. :tup:GREAT Idea, Should be like coyotes. I think they're more of a threat anyways.
Post by: Ridgeratt on February 28, 2013, 06:54:09 PM
Dale had you been on your feet your could have pointed out just how much Pittman-Robertson funds thay are going to lose so the funding for the recovery may suffer!! :hello:
Post by: sled on February 28, 2013, 07:11:15 PM
WDFW held a wolf meeting in Colville last night that was attended by 300+ people. WDFW detailed their compensation program, discussed cattleman's contracts, and how ranchers need to handle predation on cattle.thank you for showing up and speaking for all of us who couldn't be there.
WDFW thought they were going to break the meeting into small groups, Len McIrvin stood up and said "No, this group wants to stay together as one group!" after loud applause faded WDFW continued explaining how the evening would be handled. Len McIrvin spoke up again and said "Maybe you didn't understand were staying together as one group so everyone can hear what each other has to say!" Once they started calling on people to ask questions McIrvin explained that the WDFW did not remove the whole wedge pack, within 2 days there were more wolves near their cattle. Another thing McIrvin stated later in the evening is that he and his family were threatened by WDFW that if any wolf was found dead they would be fully investigated and their firearms taken from their homes and ballistic tests done.
County commissioners were present and two of them spoke out. Mike Blankenship, Ferry County Commissioner, said they need to go back to Olympia and explain to the director that wolves are out of control. Steve Parker, Stevens County Commissioner, wanted to know who was involved in the threat to McIrvins of a full investigation and confiscation of firearms. WDFW personnel at the meeting said they didn't know, Steve Parker said he wanted a reply from WDFW on who threatened the McIrvins, he made it clear he expected a reply.
Many people spoke about subjects such as Joel Kretz's legislation to move wolves to western WA, why wolves were illegally introduced, laws that were violated, wolf tapeworms, agenda 21, a young girl nearly broke into tears explaining that she has goats and sheep and her parents are not allowed to protect them, an old lady said she is afraid to walk outside her home because of all the wolf sightings near her home. Hunters and landowners talked about how deer are disappearing in many areas, places where it was normal to see 100 to 200 deer in alfalfa fields and now only 20 to 30 deer remain.
I told them I was insulted that they were telling us they are surprised at how fast wolves have multiplied after knowing and seeing what happened in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming, I spoke about how residents in Idaho were taking care of the problem in Idaho and that WDFW was going to force people in NE WA to do the same. I spoke of restaurant and motel owners in Idaho who were forced out of business, how Idaho F&G has lost millions in funding which means small communities have lost far more in their economies with many businesses shutting down. I explained how important hunting is to our local economy and that local people depend on wildlife to feed their families. I noted that I always reported poachers in the past but I would never report a wolf poacher, I mentioned that Bill White used to live in Colville, he's a good man and that what they did to him and his family was not right, it cost the White's over $100,000, they destroyed his life and his children's lives over two wolves.
I asked why their was only 2 or 3 or 2 1/2 trappers as they had explained it in our state which has thousands of square miles territory and that there should be 15 to 25 trappers to adequately find and collar all the wolf packs. I explained how sightings indicate we have in excess of 100 wolves just in NE WA with at least 15 packs.
A rancher drove up from Lincoln County who has wolves on his ranch and wanted to know why WDFW wasn't trying to help in his county. He said he doesn't have time to babysit a pack of wolves. There were many other questions and comments made by local residents, too many to remember or list. The meeting was very heated at times and no doubt the WDFW got a good taste of local dissatisfaction.
Post by: denali on February 28, 2013, 08:20:58 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 01, 2013, 10:14:15 AM
I had forgotten that McIrvin stated that if they suffer another loss as big as last year they will be forced to quit raising cattle.
Another gentleman had some excellent testimony regarding the law, the people, and the fact that our country is losing jobs, people need jobs, and WDFW is making the problem worse.
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 01, 2013, 10:21:12 AM
Colville radio is playing additional testimony from the meeting today on the radio.
I had forgotten that McIrvin stated that if they suffer another loss as big as last year they will be forced to quit raising cattle.
Another gentleman had some excellent testimony regarding the law, the people, and the fact that our country is losing jobs, people need jobs, and WDFW is making the problem worse.
Thank your for answering my ?'s above.
Is their a link to listen to this on-line?
Post by: 100 grain on March 01, 2013, 10:38:51 AM
Post by: WARHORSE on March 01, 2013, 10:39:32 AM
Post by: huntnphool on March 01, 2013, 12:17:37 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on March 01, 2013, 12:31:19 PM
Post by: 100 grain on March 01, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 01, 2013, 12:38:06 PM
Gut shoot them so they run away then die. I have and never will do this but come between my family and our lifeline (cattle and etc) and there's no question about it!Did you mean to say "I haven't " and never will? :chuckle:
Post by: 100 grain on March 01, 2013, 12:45:50 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 01, 2013, 01:07:32 PM
:chuckle: yeah actually I did mean haven'tBetter prepare for the knock on the door.
Post by: bearpaw on March 02, 2013, 08:10:41 AM
"There is a lot of passion on both sides of the issue and a lot of money involved in the wolf issue."
The problem is that WDFW sees the wolf as a "cash cow" compliments of the wolf lovers and the federal government. Certain people in WDFW think their jobs are immune to this "travesty" they are serving up to ranchers, hunters, big game herds, and the people of Washington. The simple reality is that attitudes about wolves is changing and the government is going broke, all this easy "wolf money" is eventually going to dry up and disappear. When more people realize exactly how mismanaged this wolf introduction has been and who is responsible, the ramnifications will be felt in WDFW.
Post by: CementFinisher on March 02, 2013, 08:25:57 AM
Post by: bearpaw on March 02, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 02, 2013, 04:27:38 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 02, 2013, 04:39:58 PM
I know cattle is a very high profile part of this mess, but there is an important big game equation in this that affects many more of us than cattle issues.....
I completely agree, unfortunately so many people do not understand that, for some reason cattle gets more attention, I suspition it's because they are better organized.
Post by: ICEMAN on March 02, 2013, 05:02:16 PM
I know cattle is a very high profile part of this mess, but there is an important big game equation in this that affects many more of us than cattle issues.....
Cattle farmers can quickly determine the damage caused by wolves to their herd.
Sportsmen are basically forced to trust the department. We cannot personally assess the health of deer or elk herds necessarily, but often have to rely upon our preconceived notions about the department. We trust that they will protect the deer and elk herds we love to hunt. We place faith in their management strategies. We have blind faith that they are concerned with herd health and have a desire to keep herds large and healthy so that we may continue our heritage of hunting.
Unfortunately, I believe that the department couldn't care less about using hunters as the ultimate control of herd size and health.
Post by: buckfvr on March 02, 2013, 05:15:39 PM
I wouldnt expect those who live in or near the cities to have intimate knowledge about where we live any more than I would suggest we know more than you about where you live......not arguing what you say, just adding that in some cases , we justify our lack of trust based on what we see. :twocents:
Post by: ICEMAN on March 02, 2013, 05:27:07 PM
Post by: WARHORSE on March 04, 2013, 02:53:58 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 04, 2013, 03:21:57 PM
some one asked the question at the Okanogan meeting if the game dept had a plan in place if the deer and elk numbers started to decline because of the wolves. the answer was that if they see a 25% decline in numbers for 2 years in a row then they would Think about doing somthing with the wolves. lol thats a lot of deer before they start to even think about doing somthing!And do you have any idea what the solution would be? That's right, cutting back on your hunting season and permits.
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 04, 2013, 03:23:26 PM
and a price increase due to the permit cutback. :rolleyes:some one asked the question at the Okanogan meeting if the game dept had a plan in place if the deer and elk numbers started to decline because of the wolves. the answer was that if they see a 25% decline in numbers for 2 years in a row then they would Think about doing somthing with the wolves. lol thats a lot of deer before they start to even think about doing somthing!And do you have any idea what the solution would be? That's right, cutting back on your hunting season and permits.
Post by: Special T on March 04, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
Post by: Northway on March 05, 2013, 01:28:30 PM
I know cattle is a very high profile part of this mess, but there is an important big game equation in this that affects many more of us than cattle issues.....
I completely agree, unfortunately so many people do not understand that, for some reason cattle gets more attention, I suspition it's because they are better organized.
I've been a bit confused as to why the vast majority of the attention is being paid to depredations with almost no discussion about maintaining a certain level of hunter opportunity. My only guess is that most of the consulting WDFW officials receive is from wildlife managers who were/are operating in NRM states that have a much more powerful livestock lobby. They may also just be unprepared to handle that issue at this point.
Dale, who from the WDFW took a prominent role in the meeting and how did they perform under the intensity?
It can be a lonely feeling to stand in front of a large crowd who are not happy with you.....
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 05, 2013, 01:31:24 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 05, 2013, 01:44:51 PM
Post by: asl20bball on March 05, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
What are they thinking? bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: Special T on March 05, 2013, 01:59:06 PM
Post by: Hermannr on March 05, 2013, 04:07:12 PM
WDFW is no longer Fish and Game...or the Game Department...it isn't in their charger to consider game animals...now they must tink only of the "wider" importance of all "Wildlife". Next thing will be to move the ranchers off their land so it it can be more "wild".
Anyway, the reason for my post is more along these lines:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110)
RCW 9A.16.110
Defending against violent crime — Reimbursement.
(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.
(there is more, link above) While this was written for a person defending themself against another person, I do not see how the "IMMINENT DANGER" cannot apply to your cattle (Personal Property)
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 05, 2013, 04:19:08 PM
Something to think about:
WDFW is no longer Fish and Game...or the Game Department...it isn't in their charger to consider game animals...now they must tink only of the "wider" importance of all "Wildlife". Next thing will be to move the ranchers off their land so it it can be more "wild".
Anyway, the reason for my post is more along these lines:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.110)
RCW 9A.16.110
Defending against violent crime — Reimbursement.
(1) No person in the state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting by any reasonable means necessary, himself or herself, his or her family, or his or her real or personal property, or for coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger of or the victim of assault, robbery, kidnapping, arson, burglary, rape, murder, or any other violent crime as defined in RCW 9.94A.030.
(there is more, link above) While this was written for a person defending themself against another person, I do not see how the "IMMINENT DANGER" cannot apply to your cattle (Personal Property)
I think you would have a difficult time in court convincing that "coming to the aid of another who is in imminent danger" applies to a cow (another).
But I like the way you think here! :)
Post by: bearpaw on March 05, 2013, 04:57:04 PM
I know cattle is a very high profile part of this mess, but there is an important big game equation in this that affects many more of us than cattle issues.....
I completely agree, unfortunately so many people do not understand that, for some reason cattle gets more attention, I suspicion it's because they are better organized.
I've been a bit confused as to why the vast majority of the attention is being paid to depredations with almost no discussion about maintaining a certain level of hunter opportunity. My only guess is that most of the consulting WDFW officials receive is from wildlife managers who were/are operating in NRM states that have a much more powerful livestock lobby. They may also just be unprepared to handle that issue at this point.
Dale, who from the WDFW took a prominent role in the meeting and how did they perform under the intensity?
It can be a lonely feeling to stand in front of a large crowd who are not happy with you.....
Livestock producers had losses last summer in excess of $100,000, just as they have in other states, no doubt a reason for addressing ranching impacts first. The WDFW is supposed to be back in 1 month to discuss wolf impacts on wildlife herds. Please understand that they heard a lot about wildlife as well as ranching at this meeting. Local hunters and ranchers do not have as much division as there is in urban WA. Ranchers and hunters tend to support each other far more in rural areas. At the next meeting I would expect ranchers will be represented as well as hunters.
Donny Martorello, Dave Ware, Steve Pozzanghera, and a new woman who's name I don't recall, spoke for most of the meeting. Gary Douvia from the Wildlife Commission was there as were some other WDFW personnel who didn't speak much. They all did very well representing WDFW and handled themselves as best as they could in my opinion considering the WDFW position on wolves.
WDFW was made very aware that unrealistic western WA wolf management is not welcome in NE WA, hopefully they discussed the details in Olympia. But many people were left feeling WDFW was just here so they can say they conducted public meetings and they offered some "limited" help to ranchers. Sort of a fuzzy feel good approach that is lacking in any real compensation for actual livestock losses. I think most people feel WDFW will not take any real action to address wolf problems in rural Washington. It's very apparent ranchers and hunters are second rate citizens after I-5 wolf lovers whom the WDFW seems to dance for.
FYI - Numerous people stated that they were not directing their comments at WDFW personnel on an individual or personal basis.
Post by: huntnphool on March 05, 2013, 05:21:19 PM
You see Dale, this is just BS!!! They sat there at the proposal meeting and flat out told everyone there that "wolves would have no impact on big game populations", so why must they now have a meeting in a month to discuss the impact wolves are having on the ungulates?The WDFW is supposed to be back in 1 month to discuss wolf impacts on wildlife herds.
Then, after they lied through their teeth, they posted up their powerpoint presentation. It showed rediculously low predation numbers, and Duvia argued and estimated half the available elk to be killed will be taken out by wolves. To rebut that, they stated that the wolf predation on the elk would be compensatory so it wasn't a 1:1 wolf taking an elk that could be hunted. Yet they did not know an actual number.
They seem to forget that some people actually take notes and don't sleep through the BS they're shoveling.
Post by: buckfvr on March 05, 2013, 05:42:14 PM
AND that right there get s me a red *** as much as anything else, is the fact that they are willing to show up and lie to us.....we all know it, theres nothing else it can be called. :twocents:
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 05, 2013, 06:20:47 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sherv.net%2Fcm%2Femoticons%2Feating%2Feating-popcorn-smiley-emoticon.gif&hash=29797d6ce053b5a055fda7473f4a2cf5ec1acf29) (http://www.sherv.net/eating.popcorn-emoticon-1824.html)
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 05, 2013, 06:40:02 PM
Its a sad state of affairs when the agency you represent sends you out to lie to the public........and thats exactly whats happening. THrowing their own employees to the proverbial wolves........This is the result of the classic problem of them thinking they are smarter than everyone else. WDFW grossly underestimates the hunters and the fact that we can put 2 and 2 together and figure out their line of el toro caca.
AND that right there get s me a red *** as much as anything else, is the fact that they are willing to show up and lie to us.....we all know it, theres nothing else it can be called. :twocents:
Post by: johnsc6 on March 08, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 08, 2013, 03:14:07 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 08, 2013, 03:31:10 PM
Hate to say it but you guys are to late. I attended the local meeting here in Skagit Valley about 10 years ago when the WDFW was putting together thier proposals, and yes all of the proposals where gross. But some where much better than what we got. We ended up with the second most destructive of the proposals as far as hunting and ranching is concerned. The sad part was out of the I would guess 100 attendees only five or six of those were anti wolf introduction. Four hunters (three of which were with me) and one Timber manager that helped bring back the Nooksack Elk herd (and I am sure also looking after his timber harvest interests) were the only ones to speak out against the wolf reintroduction.. Get involved early in the developmental stages to make a difference. I'm not saying don't try to change what has happened, but early volunteer involvment is what it takes. This whole show stinks as badly as I-655 in '96. If you don't remeber what that was, shame on you. This will not be the last assault on Sportsmen, remember we are the vast minority.If you are suggesting that because so few of us were absent at those early meetings that we are at fault or in any way should shoulder the blame, then I would have to respectfully disagree. How many of the commission members that allowed this to happen were there at those early meetings 10+ years ago?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 09, 2013, 01:32:59 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 09, 2013, 02:34:07 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 09, 2013, 03:15:17 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 09, 2013, 04:12:16 PM
Post by: johnsc6 on March 11, 2013, 08:37:40 PM
It all helps. The solution is for the state to quickly count all viable packs and delist our furry friends. Then they can start to be managed.!