Post by: Noiro on March 02, 2013, 10:37:27 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 02, 2013, 10:41:25 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 02, 2013, 10:43:37 AM
Post by: Noiro on March 02, 2013, 10:51:26 AM
So spotlighting is hiking with a portable light away from roads :dunno:
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 02, 2013, 10:52:25 AM
Post by: GreginWA on March 02, 2013, 10:53:01 AM
Depends on the game warden to be honest. In my hunter safety class, he basically said as long as you were SAFE and high up in the mountains off well traveled roads, he wouldnt write a ticket. NEVER shoot ACROSS a road, at least stand off to the side....
Unless your handicap(WITH special hunting permit) you can never have a loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle, or even TOUCHING the vehicle (Leaning against, shooting from truck bed, setting on hood - technical but I was told they will get you for it)... Only pistol WITH permit, and discharging from vehicle would be a very BAD idea.
Post by: bigtex on March 02, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
I think you have to be 100 feet from a main road to discharge a weapon.
Wrong. There is not set distance in WA. You just need to be off the road
Post by: Noiro on March 02, 2013, 10:59:07 AM
Post by: bobcat on March 02, 2013, 10:59:46 AM
If it's a private road you can shoot, public road, no.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 02, 2013, 11:01:34 AM
Post by: bigtex on March 02, 2013, 11:15:49 AM
It depends on the road.
If it's a private road you can shoot, public road, no.
:yeah:
Post by: Bob33 on March 02, 2013, 11:19:58 AM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460)
The pertinent parts about discharge of a firearm:
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Key points:
- The legal restriction is for public roads. (If you are unsafely shooting from a private road you may be charged for a different violation, but not for a violation of this RCW.)
- You must be off the "maintained portion" of the road. There is no set distance.
- You must be shooting "negligently" to be charged. It is up to the officer and judge to decide; you won't get definitive answers on a forum.
Post by: bobcat on March 02, 2013, 11:22:30 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 02, 2013, 11:30:30 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 02, 2013, 11:48:32 AM
Post by: Oldguy on March 02, 2013, 11:55:15 AM
FYI, you can now legally shoot from upon (not from within) a nonmoving motor vehicle as long as "the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle or off-road vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road"
Could you cite the regulation that applies? This would make shooting off the hood of a vehicle for target shooting legal. Hadn't heard about the change.
Post by: Bob33 on March 02, 2013, 12:03:44 PM
Could you cite the regulation that applies? This would make shooting off the hood of a vehicle for target shooting legal. Hadn't heard about the change.
Here is the RCW. Read it for yourself.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460)
Post by: dreamunelk on March 02, 2013, 12:04:44 PM
Just jump out , jump twice and your good to go ...Hopefully there is no ditch there :chuckle:
Actually that is pretty good advice :twocents:
Post by: dreamunelk on March 02, 2013, 12:09:50 PM
If you are planning on hunting private industrial forest land you may want to think twice. All that I know of do not allow public access at night. Instant ticket and persona nongrata from many of the landowners in SW Washington.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 02, 2013, 12:55:57 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 02, 2013, 12:59:00 PM
Read 4(c).i read this and i am still unclear,it says in or upon that would make it illegal still wouldnt it?say from upon a four wheeler even if turned off or upon the hood of a truck.Could you cite the regulation that applies? This would make shooting off the hood of a vehicle for target shooting legal. Hadn't heard about the change.Here is the RCW. Read it for yourself.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460)
Post by: Bob33 on March 02, 2013, 01:24:45 PM
yes i read 4c and any road that is maintained in any way 1 time a year or once ever as far as i have been told counts in this rule.where can you drive off the road or trail without a greendot in wa. state?even when I'm jeeping I'm not supposed to deviate from the path so I'm either on or beside right?and if its greendot its maintained.You could potentially be cited for driving offroad, but you would not be cited for having a loaded firearm in a vehicle if you adhere to the RCW.
Post by: Oldguy on March 02, 2013, 01:31:18 PM
FYI, you can now legally shoot from upon (not from within) a nonmoving motor vehicle as long as "the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle or off-road vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road"
Thanks. I missed the reference in your previous post. Also it took my reading comprehension a while to understand the "from upon" part of the sentence.
Post by: rynokron on March 03, 2013, 08:07:52 AM
Could you cite the regulation that applies? This would make shooting off the hood of a vehicle for target shooting legal. Hadn't heard about the change.Here is the RCW. Read it for yourself.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460)
That RCW doesn't say anything about hunting. In the hunting regs it still says it is unlawful to hunt from a motor vehicle. It's in the Prohibited hunting methods section.
Post by: bobcat on March 03, 2013, 08:14:24 AM
So, would in be legal to build one of those big spotlighting tower/chairs to mount in the back of your truck for solo night calling now? I always thought that looked fun but it has been illegal in the past.
Sure, I don't see why that wouldn't be legal. You would pretty much have to hunt only on private land though, in order to get much use out of it.
Post by: Cap.Silver on March 03, 2013, 08:15:32 AM
[[Orig. Op. Page 3]]
For the purposes of the act, a public highway is defined in RCW 46.04.430 as:
"'Public highway' includes every way, lane, road, street, boulevard, and every way or place in the state open as a matter of right to public vehicular travel both inside and outside the limits of cities and towns."
You can find it here http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?id=7526 (http://www.atg.wa.gov/AGOOpinions/opinion.aspx?id=7526)
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 08:24:34 AM
page 76 number 4
Hunting wildlife from a motor vehicle is prohibited......
number 5.
In number 5 it only adresses boats with motor off in a hunting situation.
Post by: Bofire on March 03, 2013, 09:09:36 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 09:12:13 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 03, 2013, 09:13:27 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 09:19:01 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 03, 2013, 09:37:44 AM
My opinion is that the revision to allowing shooting from upon a vehicle is too new to have been tested and tried in court. I would not do it.
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 09:41:06 AM
With all due respect, if you want a legal opinion from WDFW you should ask them.
My opinion is that the revision to allowing shooting from upon a vehicle is too new to have been tested and tried in court. I would not do it.
Thats why I hoped at some point Bigtex would chime in......I hate large gray areas, and Im afraid this is one.....
Post by: bigtex on March 03, 2013, 10:21:07 AM
Since the RCW and WACs dont mention hunting, but the game laws do, Id look for an answer from WDFW to avoid a ticket....unless of course you are standing up on this as a LEO with first hand knowledge.......I dont think anyone on here is wanting to have a need to hire a lawyer to get a citation dropped.......
The "game laws" are RCW 77, WAC 232 and WAC 220.
Bob is correct in everything he is saying.
When you are on USFS lands there is also a federal law regarding shooting from, or across USFS roads, doesn't matter if you are hunting or not.
RCW 77.15.460 is really a unique law in that it is in the fish and wildlife RCW, but doesn't just apply to hunting.
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 10:25:20 AM
Post by: buckfvr on March 03, 2013, 11:30:11 AM
Post by: bearpaw on March 03, 2013, 01:17:24 PM
Since the RCW and WACs dont mention hunting, but the game laws do, Id look for an answer from WDFW to avoid a ticket....unless of course you are standing up on this as a LEO with first hand knowledge.......I dont think anyone on here is wanting to have a need to hire a lawyer to get a citation dropped.......
The "game laws" are RCW 77, WAC 232 and WAC 220.
Bob is correct in everything he is saying.
When you are on USFS lands there is also a federal law regarding shooting from, along, or across USFS roads, doesn't matter if you are hunting or not.
RCW 77.15.460 is really a unique law in that it is in the fish and wildlife RCW, but doesn't just apply to hunting.
SHOOTING ALONG ROADWAYS
Bigtex, the way I understand Washington law is that a person can shoot from along a roadway as long as it is not in a negligent manner or from inside or upon a motor vehicle. So a person can get out of their vehicle and shoot from the road if you are doing it safely and in a safe location?
You mention federal laws that apply to forest service lands, does this law prohibit shooting along all forest service roads even when not in a vehicle? Could you please post the text or link for that aplicable law so we can read and understand it? THANKS
SHOOTING FROM VEHICLE
The way I understand this, a person could shoot from in the back of a truck, from an elevated shooting seat, or from an ATV, as long as the engine is off, the vehicle is not moving, and the vehicle is not on or along any public road. But if you are on a private farm road the road restriction would not apply. You must not be inside a vehicle no matter where you are shooting. Am I understanding that correctly?
THANKS for your help!
RCW 77.15.460
Loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Unlawful use of a loaded firearm — Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.320, or upon an off-road vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.365, if:
(a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, or upon an off-road vehicle, except as allowed by department rule; and
(b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway; or
(b) The person discharges a firearm from within a moving motor vehicle or from upon a moving off-road vehicle.
(3) Unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle or upon an off-road vehicle, and unlawful use of a loaded firearm are misdemeanors.
(4) This section does not apply if the person:
(a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;
(b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities; or
(c) Discharges the rifle or shotgun from upon a nonmoving motor vehicle or a nonmoving off-road vehicle, as long as the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle or off-road vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road, except as authorized by the commission by rule.
(5) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a rifle or shotgun shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the rifle or shotgun.
Post by: bigtex on March 03, 2013, 07:04:23 PM
Here is the federal reg for shooting on USFS roads:
36 CFR 261.10(d)
(d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:
(1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or
(2) Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.
The USFS reg has nothing to do with vehicles, it simply has to do with the act of shooting.
There is a rule for DNR lands but it ONLY applies for target shooting, NOT hunting:
WAC 332-52-145(2)(b)
(b) Persons shall not shoot within, from, along, across, or down roads or trails
Post by: bearpaw on March 03, 2013, 09:41:50 PM
If I read that correctly a person cannot shoot across or on a national forest system road. Does that mean shoot at something that is on the road, or does that mean a person cannot shoot from the road. It sort of seems to indicate a person cannot shoot something on the road or across the road.
People have shot grouse in the forest and on the back roads for decades and I have never heard of anyone being cited. Are they citing for that now?
Another thing, most people would get out of a vehicle and shoot a buck while driving the mountain roads, are people being cited for that now?
Post by: yote on March 04, 2013, 12:04:16 AM
Post by: bigtex on March 04, 2013, 09:18:02 AM
Thankyou bigtex,
If I read that correctly a person cannot shoot across or on a national forest system road. Does that mean shoot at something that is on the road, or does that mean a person cannot shoot from the road. It sort of seems to indicate a person cannot shoot something on the road or across the road.
People have shot grouse in the forest and on the back roads for decades and I have never heard of anyone being cited. Are they citing for that now?
Another thing, most people would get out of a vehicle and shoot a buck while driving the mountain roads, are people being cited for that now?
From what I have been told the federal interpretation of “on a national forest system road” means I can’t stand on a USFS road and shoot a gun. Essentially because I am discharging a firearm while I am on a USFS road. Doesn’t matter if I am shooting something on the road, such as a grouse down the road, or something in the adjoining clear-cut.
This isn’t a new regulation. The thing is this is a federal regulation, only USFS (or other federal officers) LEOs can cite people for this and it would be a federal citation. So if WDFW or a Deputy saw you doing this all they could do is get your info and forward it on to the USFS LEO.
I think it comes down to someone can shoot from a WDFW or DNR road, but not USFS, so are officers going to be sticklers for it? Yes, it is definitely a federal law violation, and if a federal officer saw you doing it you would be cited. But is WDFW going to take the time to gather info and forward a report on? They could, but it comes down to the fact that the act is legal in other areas of the state, but not on USFS roads.
Post by: bearpaw on March 04, 2013, 09:52:23 AM
Does this affect disabled hunters?
I could understand paved forest roads but I don't agree with this when on more remote forest roads, it would benefit many people if the state laws would apply, do you know how to get it changed to be similar with the state law, where would a person would start? Is there someone I could contact who is in charge of enforcement of these laws in this state or region?
Post by: bigtex on March 04, 2013, 10:19:51 AM
Does this affect disabled hunters?
I could understand paved forest roads but I don't agree with this when on more remote forest roads, it would benefit many people if the state laws would apply, do you know how to get it changed to be similar with the state law, where would a person would start? Is there someone I could contact who is in charge of enforcement of these laws in this state or region?
This law trumps state law. And that is how federal regs work. As an example, if you were to drive through Mt Rainier Park while drunk you would be cited under a federal/NPS DUI charge even though under NPS laws you can adopt state traffic offenses. The way it works is you can only adopt a state offense if there is no conflicting federal offense. So if you had a suspended license the state offense would be adopted because there is no federal offense for violation.
If an officer saw a disabled hunter shooting from the road, I would be willing to bet even a USFS LEO would educate on the law rather then get a citation, because quite simply WDFW doesn't provide disabled hunters with that info, because it is not a WDFW/state law but rather a federal law. Kind of like how coyote hunting is closed on almost all USFWS lands, but you don't see that in the hunting regs.
How do you get the law changed? It comes from USFS management DC. This isn't an issue where you can call a supervisory LEO for the USFS and ask for them to look into the issue. Agencies can revise their Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) every 5 years, some do it every 5 years, others don't. The USFS did it in 2011/2012. This law exists on all USFS lands in every state, not just WA. So if you were to change the law it would effect all USFS lands. The USFS has not really changed their CFR very much, and it is one of the frustrations with USFS LEO's, you look at the NPS and USFWS CFR and it actually makes sense and is usable. Some of the USFS CFR is very much outdated, so if they won't even do to enhance the operability of their own LEOs you can imagine how they feel about changing it for a private citizen.
The way it works is an agency puts out their proposed regulations, groups and personnel can comment then the agency can adopt or not adopt the changes. The only real organizations that have an meaningful input in these changes are large organizations (Rocky Mtn Elk, NWTF, etc) not just a private citizen.
Congress members also have no insight or regulation of the CFR. The CFR is essentially the WAC for WA where the agency creates/changes the regulations, not elected officials.
Hate to say it Dale, but this reg is here to stay. :twocents:
Post by: Gringo31 on March 04, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Quote
So, would in be legal to build one of those big spotlighting tower/chairs to mount in the back of your truck for solo night calling now? I always thought that looked fun but it has been illegal in the past.
I sent WDFW an email on this a few years ago. I wanted to build a kill chair but it would be illegal (I included pics from Texas). IF it was in the back of a pickup, again...it would be illegal. But, I was told that if I built it on a trailer, but then disconnected the trailer from the truck (still keeping the power supply in tact) I would be fine. It did seem like I had asked them questions that they couldn't figure out if I was serious or not :chuckle:
Never did build one....
Post by: Bob33 on March 04, 2013, 10:40:54 AM
The law changed in 2012. It could possibly be legal now.QuoteSo, would in be legal to build one of those big spotlighting tower/chairs to mount in the back of your truck for solo night calling now? I always thought that looked fun but it has been illegal in the past.
I sent WDFW an email on this a few years ago. I wanted to build a kill chair but it would be illegal (I included pics from Texas). IF it was in the back of a pickup, again...it would be illegal. But, I was told that if I built it on a trailer, but then disconnected the trailer from the truck (still keeping the power supply in tact) I would be fine. It did seem like I had asked them questions that they couldn't figure out if I was serious or not :chuckle:
Never did build one....
Post by: Noiro on March 06, 2013, 08:54:03 PM
Post by: madcow41 on March 07, 2013, 12:06:41 PM
Here is the RCW. Read it for yourself.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.460)
The pertinent parts about discharge of a firearm:
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:
(a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway;
Key points:
- The legal restriction is for public roads. (If you are unsafely shooting from a private road you may be charged for a different violation, but not for a violation of this RCW.)
- You must be off the "maintained portion" of the road. There is no set distance.
- You must be shooting "negligently" to be charged. It is up to the officer and judge to decide; you won't get definitive answers on a forum.
So walking a county road and shooting grouse is ok as long as you arent dangerous
Post by: yote on March 07, 2013, 10:43:59 PM
No shooting or spotlighting from the road bad idea.
Where does it say this???
Post by: bigtex on March 07, 2013, 11:35:39 PM
You can run around during hunting season with a spotlight all you want as long as you don't have a weapon. The combination of having both a weapon AND a light is what will get you in trouble. Doesn't need to be in a vehicle either, if you set up a blind and are possessing a light and weapon for big game (like what many legally use for coyotes) you would be in violation.
Post by: yote on March 08, 2013, 12:09:11 AM