Shoot from the road?

[buckfvr]

Since the RCW and WACs dont mention hunting, but the game laws do, Id look for an answer from WDFW to avoid a ticket....unless of course you are standing up on this as a LEO with first hand knowledge.......I dont think anyone on here is wanting to have a need to hire a lawyer to get a citation dropped.......

[Bob33]

With all due respect, if you want a legal opinion from WDFW you should ask them.

My opinion is that the revision to allowing shooting from upon a vehicle is too new to have been tested and tried in court. I would not do it.

[buckfvr]

With all due respect, if you want a legal opinion from WDFW you should ask them.

My opinion is that the revision to allowing shooting from upon a vehicle is too new to have been tested and tried in court. I would not do it.

Thats why I hoped at some point Bigtex would chime in......I hate large gray areas, and Im afraid this is one.....

[bigtex]

Since the RCW and WACs dont mention hunting, but the game laws do, Id look for an answer from WDFW to avoid a ticket....unless of course you are standing up on this as a LEO with first hand knowledge.......I dont think anyone on here is wanting to have a need to hire a lawyer to get a citation dropped.......

The "game laws" are RCW 77, WAC 232 and WAC 220.

Bob is correct in everything he is saying.

When you are on USFS lands there is also a federal law regarding shooting from, or across USFS roads, doesn't matter if you are hunting or not.

RCW 77.15.460 is really a unique law in that it is in the fish and wildlife RCW, but doesn't just apply to hunting.

[buckfvr]

Thanks greatly Bigtex.....................So in a scenario, it would be legal to have a portable shooting bench in the back of a pickup and shoot from it  regardless whether sighting in or hunting....?   Or say stopping on a quad per thelaw, engine off and say shooting rabbit or grouse?

[buckfvr]

ttt

[bearpaw]

Since the RCW and WACs dont mention hunting, but the game laws do, Id look for an answer from WDFW to avoid a ticket....unless of course you are standing up on this as a LEO with first hand knowledge.......I dont think anyone on here is wanting to have a need to hire a lawyer to get a citation dropped.......

The "game laws" are RCW 77, WAC 232 and WAC 220.

Bob is correct in everything he is saying.

When you are on USFS lands there is also a federal law regarding shooting from, along, or across USFS roads, doesn't matter if you are hunting or not.

RCW 77.15.460 is really a unique law in that it is in the fish and wildlife RCW, but doesn't just apply to hunting.

SHOOTING ALONG ROADWAYS
Bigtex, the way I understand Washington law is that a person can shoot from along a roadway as long as it is not in a negligent manner or from inside or upon a motor vehicle. So a person can get out of their vehicle and shoot from the road if you are doing it safely and in a safe location?

You mention federal laws that apply to forest service lands, does this law prohibit shooting along all forest service roads even when not in a vehicle? Could you please post the text or link for that aplicable law so we can read and understand it? THANKS

SHOOTING FROM VEHICLE
The way I understand this, a person could shoot from in the back of a truck, from an elevated shooting seat, or from an ATV, as long as the engine is off, the vehicle is not moving, and the vehicle is not on or along any public road. But if you are on a private farm road the road restriction would not apply. You must not be inside a vehicle no matter where you are shooting. Am I understanding that correctly?

THANKS for your help!


RCW 77.15.460
Loaded rifle or shotgun in vehicle — Unlawful use or possession — Unlawful use of a loaded firearm — Penalty. 

(1) A person is guilty of unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.320, or upon an off-road vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.04.365, if:

     (a) The person carries, transports, conveys, possesses, or controls a rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle, or upon an off-road vehicle, except as allowed by department rule; and

     (b) The rifle or shotgun contains shells or cartridges in the magazine or chamber, or is a muzzle-loading firearm that is loaded and capped or primed.

     (2) A person is guilty of unlawful use of a loaded firearm if:

     (a) The person negligently discharges a firearm from, across, or along the maintained portion of a public highway; or

     (b) The person discharges a firearm from within a moving motor vehicle or from upon a moving off-road vehicle.

     (3) Unlawful possession of a loaded rifle or shotgun in a motor vehicle or upon an off-road vehicle, and unlawful use of a loaded firearm are misdemeanors.

     (4) This section does not apply if the person:

     (a) Is a law enforcement officer who is authorized to carry a firearm and is on duty within the officer's respective jurisdiction;

     (b) Possesses a disabled hunter's permit as provided by RCW 77.32.237 and complies with all rules of the department concerning hunting by persons with disabilities; or

     (c) Discharges the rifle or shotgun from upon a nonmoving motor vehicle or a nonmoving off-road vehicle, as long as the engine is turned off and the motor vehicle or off-road vehicle is not parked on or beside the maintained portion of a public road, except as authorized by the commission by rule.

     (5) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, a rifle or shotgun shall not be considered loaded if the detachable clip or magazine is not inserted in or attached to the rifle or shotgun.

[bigtex]

Bearpaw,

Here is the federal reg for shooting on USFS roads:
36 CFR 261.10(d)

(d) Discharging a firearm or any other implement capable of taking human life, causing injury, or damaging property as follows:
(1) In or within 150 yards of a residence, building, campsite, developed recreation site or occupied area, or
(2) Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto, or in any manner or place whereby any person or property is exposed to injury or damage as a result in such discharge.

The USFS reg has nothing to do with vehicles, it simply has to do with the act of shooting.

There is a rule for DNR lands but it ONLY applies for target shooting, NOT hunting:
WAC 332-52-145(2)(b)
(b) Persons shall not shoot within, from, along, across, or down roads or trails

[bearpaw]

Thankyou bigtex,
If I read that correctly a person cannot shoot across or on a national forest system road. Does that mean shoot at something that is on the road, or does that mean a person cannot shoot from the road. It sort of seems to indicate a person cannot shoot something on the road or across the road.

People have shot grouse in the forest and on the back roads for decades and I have never heard of anyone being cited. Are they citing for that now?

Another thing, most people would get out of a vehicle and shoot a buck while driving the mountain roads, are people being cited for that now?

[yote]

Where does it say that you can't spotlight from your vehicle??

[bigtex]

Thankyou bigtex,
If I read that correctly a person cannot shoot across or on a national forest system road. Does that mean shoot at something that is on the road, or does that mean a person cannot shoot from the road. It sort of seems to indicate a person cannot shoot something on the road or across the road.

People have shot grouse in the forest and on the back roads for decades and I have never heard of anyone being cited. Are they citing for that now?

Another thing, most people would get out of a vehicle and shoot a buck while driving the mountain roads, are people being cited for that now?

From what I have been told the federal interpretation of “on a national forest system road” means I can’t stand on a USFS road and shoot a gun. Essentially because I am discharging a firearm while I am on a USFS road. Doesn’t matter if I am shooting something on the road, such as a grouse down the road, or something in the adjoining clear-cut.

This isn’t a new regulation. The thing is this is a federal regulation, only USFS (or other federal officers) LEOs can cite people for this and it would be a federal citation. So if WDFW or a Deputy saw you doing this all they could do is get your info and forward it on to the USFS LEO.

I think it comes down to someone can shoot from a WDFW or DNR road, but not USFS, so are officers going to be sticklers for it? Yes, it is definitely a federal law violation, and if a federal officer saw you doing it you would be cited. But is WDFW going to take the time to gather info and forward a report on? They could, but it comes down to the fact that the act is legal in other areas of the state, but not on USFS roads.

[bearpaw]

Thanks for the very understandable reply, it is important to know exactly what is legal and what is not so a person doesn't make any mistakes.

Does this affect disabled hunters?

I could understand paved forest roads but I don't agree with this when on more remote forest roads, it would benefit many people if the state laws would apply, do you know how to get it changed to be similar with the state law, where would a person would start? Is there someone I could contact who is in charge of enforcement of these laws in this state or region?

[bigtex]

Does this affect disabled hunters?

I could understand paved forest roads but I don't agree with this when on more remote forest roads, it would benefit many people if the state laws would apply, do you know how to get it changed to be similar with the state law, where would a person would start? Is there someone I could contact who is in charge of enforcement of these laws in this state or region?

This law trumps state law. And that is how federal regs work. As an example, if you were to drive through Mt Rainier Park while drunk you would be cited under a federal/NPS DUI charge even though under NPS laws you can adopt state traffic offenses. The way it works is you can only adopt a state offense if there is no conflicting federal offense. So if you had a suspended license the state offense would be adopted because there is no federal offense for violation.

If an officer saw a disabled hunter shooting from the road, I would be willing to bet even a USFS LEO would educate on the law rather then get a citation, because quite simply WDFW doesn't provide disabled hunters with that info, because it is not a WDFW/state law but rather a federal law. Kind of like how coyote hunting is closed on almost all USFWS lands, but you don't see that in the hunting regs.

How do you get the law changed? It comes from USFS management DC. This isn't an issue where you can call a supervisory LEO for the USFS and ask for them to look into the issue. Agencies can revise their Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) every 5 years, some do it every 5 years, others don't. The USFS did it in 2011/2012. This law exists on all USFS lands in every state, not just WA. So if you were to change the law it would effect all USFS lands. The USFS has not really changed their CFR very much, and it is one of the frustrations with USFS LEO's, you look at the NPS and USFWS CFR and it actually makes sense and is usable. Some of the USFS CFR is very much outdated, so if they won't even do to enhance the operability of their own LEOs you can imagine how they feel about changing it for a private citizen.

The way it works is an agency puts out their proposed regulations, groups and personnel can comment then the agency can adopt or not adopt the changes. The only real organizations that have an meaningful input in these changes are large organizations (Rocky Mtn Elk, NWTF, etc) not just a private citizen.

Congress members also have no insight or regulation of the CFR. The CFR is essentially the WAC for WA where the agency creates/changes the regulations, not elected officials.

Hate to say it Dale, but this reg is here to stay. 

[Gringo31]

So, would in be legal to build one of those big spotlighting tower/chairs to mount in the back of your truck for solo night calling now?     I always thought that looked fun but it has been illegal in the past.

I sent WDFW an email on this a few years ago.  I wanted to build a kill chair but it would be illegal (I included pics from Texas).  IF it was in the back of a pickup, again...it would be illegal.  But, I was told that if I built it on a trailer, but then disconnected the trailer from the truck (still keeping the power supply in tact) I would be fine.  It did seem like I had asked them questions that they couldn't figure out if I was serious or not

Never did build one....

[Bob33]

So, would in be legal to build one of those big spotlighting tower/chairs to mount in the back of your truck for solo night calling now?     I always thought that looked fun but it has been illegal in the past.

I sent WDFW an email on this a few years ago.  I wanted to build a kill chair but it would be illegal (I included pics from Texas).  IF it was in the back of a pickup, again...it would be illegal.  But, I was told that if I built it on a trailer, but then disconnected the trailer from the truck (still keeping the power supply in tact) I would be fine.  It did seem like I had asked them questions that they couldn't figure out if I was serious or not

Never did build one....

The law changed in 2012. It could possibly be legal now.