Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: arees on March 03, 2013, 07:34:14 PM

Title: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: arees on March 03, 2013, 07:34:14 PM: My son and I were shooting at the range today and discharged his rifle without touching the trigger. He was shooting his model 700 in 270 off the bench. He shot a couple of rounds and chambered another round. He put the safety on so we could discuss something and then took it off to shoot again. He squoze the trigger but nothing happened. He kept it on target and tried again but still nothing happened.

I told me about it while staying on target. I had him take his finger off the trigger while I pushed the safety forward to make sure it was off. It looked like it was off, but I wanted to make sure. As I pushed forward on the safety, the rifle discharged. He was still on target so we were safe, but it was still concerning.

We bought the rifle used so I don't know if any work has been done to the trigger. I have read about this type of discharge but have never encountered one.

Has anyone run into this? Any suggestions on what work needs to be done to keep it from happening again?
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: bobcat on March 03, 2013, 07:45:18 PM: I would replace the trigger with a Timney.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544257/timney-rifle-trigger-remington-700-7-40x-flat-with-safety-1-1-2-lb-to-4-lb-blue (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544257/timney-rifle-trigger-remington-700-7-40x-flat-with-safety-1-1-2-lb-to-4-lb-blue)
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: NW-GSP on March 03, 2013, 08:12:19 PM: Most likely the previous owner messed with the trigger. Remington did a big investigation into people having the same issue and from what I remember Remington was only able to replicate the problem with rifles that had been altered by the owners.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: YellowDog on March 03, 2013, 08:14:32 PM: When was the gun manufactured? There was a recall on Rem 700' s years ago for this reason.
At least i believe that to be the case.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: Knocker of rocks on March 03, 2013, 08:18:50 PM: Quote from: NW-GSP on March 03, 2013, 08:12:19 PM
Most likely the previous owner messed with the trigger. Remington did a big investigation into people having the same issue and from what I remember Remington was only able to replicate the problem with rifles that had been altered by the owners.

That's my understanding. It is a common problem, but seems attributeable to adjustments and alterations unintended and unforeseen by Remington.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: demontang on March 03, 2013, 08:27:25 PM: This is why I wont own a remington 700. Ive had more then one do this with stock triggers. Twice one went off with the safety on. One even went bag as I closed the bolt :yike: no thanks.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: slayerofthesea on March 03, 2013, 08:37:37 PM: what kind of ammo were you using my 7.62x54r hang fires with cheap ammo.. maybe this could be your case? i had a marlin both action do that to me once i loaded it up and set it down and it went off. good thing it was pointed down range were we were shooting.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: arees on March 03, 2013, 09:03:15 PM: We were shooting handloads. I doubt it was a hang fire. When he tried shooting it the trigger did not move. It fired immediately as I pushed forward on the safety when his finger was not on the trigger.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: 2labs on March 03, 2013, 09:13:33 PM: Everybody on this site needs to see Remington under fire! I have 2 700 Rems. Love them both. Please watch this documentary.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: sled on March 03, 2013, 09:25:26 PM: Quote from: YellowDog on March 03, 2013, 08:14:32 PM
When was the gun manufactured? There was a recall on Rem 700' s years ago for this reason.
At least i believe that to be the case.
I have heard of the same thing!
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: thatkidwho on March 03, 2013, 09:28:11 PM: My hunters ed instructor had a similar story. A lever in the trigger group was worn out.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: mrolen on March 04, 2013, 05:31:00 PM: most likely it just needs to be adjusted and cleaned but if it is something you dont want to deal with i would install a timney trigger. If you get over to Wenatchee to High mountain hunting supply i can adjust it and function test it to ensure that it is safe, or install an after market trigger for you.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: arees on April 21, 2013, 07:31:33 AM: We finally got back to repairing this. We purchased a Timney trigger. When we pulled the action out of the stock the circlip holding the safety lever on its pin fell out onto the work bench. There was no sign of the ball bearing that should have been under the safety lever.

I don't know how or when the circlip came loose but it did not hold tightly when I put it back on. It is possible that it was bumped loose the last time we assembled the rifle. I just don't know when it happened. That did not give me a good feeling.

We installed the Timney trigger with no problem. We had already read on the web that we had to reverse the pin instructions because James shoots a left handed rifle. Timney should fix that in their instructions, but the web had already saved us from that headache. He really likes the new trigger and we are looking forward to taking it to the range.

I don't know what to think about the circlip falling off of the original trigger assembly. It is not the sort of thing that should happen easily.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on April 21, 2013, 08:02:25 AM: Quote from: NW-GSP on March 03, 2013, 08:12:19 PM
Most likely the previous owner messed with the trigger. Remington did a big investigation into people having the same issue and from what I remember Remington was only able to replicate the problem with rifles that had been altered by the owners.
:yeah: :tup: :tup:
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: cem3434 on April 21, 2013, 08:14:26 AM: No thanks, this is the major reason I dont own any Model 700's. Remington claims they can only replicate this on modified triggers, but the guy who designed the trigger assembly told them that there was a flaw in the design. They chose to save a buck at our expense and not fix the flaw until several people were killed by accidental discharges, so I don't trust any Model 700.
Title: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: THunt on April 21, 2013, 09:22:43 AM: While it is scary if you have proper muzzle control know one should die.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: CastleRocker on April 21, 2013, 10:19:06 AM: Quote from: cem3434 on April 21, 2013, 08:14:26 AM
No thanks, this is the major reason I dont own any Model 700's. Remington claims they can only replicate this on modified triggers, but the guy who designed the trigger assembly told them that there was a flaw in the design. They chose to save a buck at our expense and not fix the flaw until several people were killed by accidental discharges, so I don't trust any Model 700.

Exactly! Just like 2labs said, watch the documentary; "Remington Under Fire". The man who designed the 700 said this is a flaw with EVERY stock Remington 700! That is coming from the guy who invented that action...I tend to believe it.

One more reason for proper muzzle control!

Oh yeah, not related to the 700, but when you have a misfire in your 10/22 and eject the magazine to clear it...if your extractor doesn't pull the live round out of the chamber, DON'T just let the bolt slam home with your palm under the now empty mag well. The extractor claw with hit the rim and set that round off while the bolt is still out of battery, and it will blow all kinds of stuff down into your palm. I know this to be true...twice.

Again, "muzzle control".
Title: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: Sawbuck on April 21, 2013, 10:31:14 AM: My dad had this same problem with his .300 win mag and had never done anything to the trigger. After multiple trips to the gun shop with no problem being found he just ended up replacing the trigger. It was not cool having to hunt and wonder if your gun was going to fire by switching the safety off. He bought a sako grey wolf a few years back and the 700 hasn't left the safe. Glad you got the problem solved, Remington has not taken near enough responsibility for this issue.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: rtspring on April 21, 2013, 10:33:21 AM: Shot rem 700's all my life never had one issue with their product!
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: CastleRocker on April 21, 2013, 10:49:13 AM: I've never had any problems with my 700's either.

Like I said, when the guy who invented the dang thing says there is a flaw...I tend to believe it.
Title: Re: Discharge without using the trigger
Post by: Arnbo on April 21, 2013, 10:57:23 AM: Quote from: bobcat on March 03, 2013, 07:45:18 PM
I would replace the trigger with a Timney.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544257/timney-rifle-trigger-remington-700-7-40x-flat-with-safety-1-1-2-lb-to-4-lb-blue (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/544257/timney-rifle-trigger-remington-700-7-40x-flat-with-safety-1-1-2-lb-to-4-lb-blue)
:yeah: