Post by: bigtex on April 02, 2013, 12:37:48 PM
Currently the fee (initial and renewal) is $30. The fee would increase to $40 until July 1, 2014. Effective July 1, 2014 the fee would increase to $50.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2013&bill=5889 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2013&bill=5889)
House Bill 2002 increases the registration fees but does not impact the Sno-Park pass
http://dlr.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/default.aspx?Bill=2002&year=2013 (http://dlr.leg.wa.gov/billsummary/default.aspx?Bill=2002&year=2013)
Please see my post made on 1/30/2014 regarding HB 2002
Post by: stevemiller on April 02, 2013, 08:20:46 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2013, 08:33:48 PM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 02, 2013, 08:42:09 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 02, 2013, 08:44:00 PM
WA registration fees are optional for me, I've been doing it just because, but the bulk of my riding is in Canada.
I may just ride 100% in Canada and private property with the kids.
Not everyone has a 5 place heated enclosed trailer pulling 5 new sleds behind a crew cab diesel on 38 inch rubber 8)
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2013, 08:45:55 PM
Quote
They groom once a week
This is what I'm wondering about. Grooming has to be expensive. Who pays for it?
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 08:50:01 PM
Does anyone know what the money is used for?It reads as a parking permit for snow parks. :dunno:
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on April 02, 2013, 08:51:21 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on April 02, 2013, 08:52:57 PM
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 08:54:34 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2013, 08:55:23 PM
Yeah! Snow park fees pay for grooming those trails. Probably should have been $100 for the reg fee. Pay your way.
This is what I'm thinking too, but I don't really know who pays for what, that's why I was asking.
Post by: mkcj on April 02, 2013, 09:18:13 PM
Post by: stuckalot on April 02, 2013, 09:21:23 PM
KF, if you read in the fine print you are legally required to register your snowmobile even if you only ride it on private property! Go figure!
Post by: bigtex on April 02, 2013, 09:28:55 PM
Does anyone know what the money is used for?It reads as a parking permit for snow parks. :dunno:
You are confused. The bill does two things:
1- Does the two increases for the registration
2- Right now if you are issued a snowmobile registration you are also given a Sno-Park pass. This changes and the bill says you can be charged a fee for the Sno-Park pass.
Post by: washelkhunter on April 02, 2013, 09:31:17 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 02, 2013, 09:31:52 PM
Does anyone know what the money is used for?
3% goes to DOL
97% goes to State Parks to manage the state snowmobile program which includes: Purposes may include, but not necessarily be limited to, the administration, acquisition, development, operation, and maintenance of snowmobile facilities and development and implementation of snowmobile safety, enforcement, and education programs
Post by: bigtex on April 02, 2013, 09:33:45 PM
The state is broke yet they have sheriffs on snowmobiles on sundays checking for 30 dollar tabs? Really. And they didn't even check us guys that were at the cabin. This state can kiss my back side, I've never been checked for tabs so I think I'll take the chance now.
Many of the sheriff's that have snowmobile areas, as well as WDFW and the USFS receive grant money from State Parks to enforce snowmobile laws. This same thing applies with boating laws.
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 09:37:03 PM
Hence the "dunno" emoticon.Does anyone know what the money is used for?It reads as a parking permit for snow parks. :dunno:
You are confused. The bill does two things:
1- Does the two increases for the registration
2- Right now if you are issued a snowmobile registration you are also given a Sno-Park pass. This changes and the bill says you can be charged a fee for the Sno-Park pass.
Post by: KFhunter on April 02, 2013, 09:47:34 PM
The state is broke yet they have sheriffs on snowmobiles on sundays checking for 30 dollar tabs? Really. And they didn't even check us guys that were at the cabin. This state can kiss my back side, I've never been checked for tabs so I think I'll take the chance now.
Many of the sheriff's that have snowmobile areas, as well as WDFW and the USFS receive grant money from State Parks to enforce snowmobile laws. This same thing applies with boating laws.
It sucks when this happens, you end up with deputys that don't know jack chit enforcing laws they know nothing about.
Some jackweed (deputy on a grant) tried to give me a ticket for not having my kids in a life jacket when my boat was 1) over 19 feet long 2) kids were in the cuddy portion of the boat. :bash:
He was writing me a ticket when his partner handed me a boaters safety pamphlet so I took it and turned to the page explaining life jacket requirements. Saved me the hassle of court, but I was tempted to keep my mouth shut and let him hand me a citation.
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 10:13:52 PM
Be carefull KF, some municipalities have changed their PFD requirements and require children 12 and under to wear them regardless the size of the vessel. :twocents:The state is broke yet they have sheriffs on snowmobiles on sundays checking for 30 dollar tabs? Really. And they didn't even check us guys that were at the cabin. This state can kiss my back side, I've never been checked for tabs so I think I'll take the chance now.
Many of the sheriff's that have snowmobile areas, as well as WDFW and the USFS receive grant money from State Parks to enforce snowmobile laws. This same thing applies with boating laws.
It sucks when this happens, you end up with deputys that don't know jack chit enforcing laws they know nothing about.
Some jackweed (deputy on a grant) tried to give me a ticket for not having my kids in a life jacket when my boat was 1) over 19 feet long 2) kids were in the cuddy portion of the boat. :bash:
He was writing me a ticket when his partner handed me a boaters safety pamphlet so I took it and turned to the page explaining life jacket requirements. Saved me the hassle of court, but I was tempted to keep my mouth shut and let him hand me a citation.
Post by: KFhunter on April 02, 2013, 10:15:49 PM
So I get to deal with two counties, stevens and ferry co when they get a grant.
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 10:17:48 PM
This was on lake rooseveltYeah, I don't know the law there but several around here have changed, found out last year when a couple buddies got tickets on Lake Tapps.
Post by: bigtex on April 02, 2013, 10:22:20 PM
This was on lake roosevelt - kettle arm
So I get to deal with two counties, stevens and ferry co when they get a grant.
And federal officers from the National Park Service
Post by: KFhunter on April 02, 2013, 10:28:17 PM
This was on lake roosevelt - kettle arm
So I get to deal with two counties, stevens and ferry co when they get a grant.
And federal officers from the National Park Service
I've never had a contact from them, I've seen them plenty but they never stop me.
but grant recipients are a whole other ball of wax, they are after #'s
I see a boat that say's SHERRIFF on the side I mutter to myself....crap; Because I know I'm going to be inconvienced for awhile.
I've never gotten a citation on the water though.
The deputys are making BS excuses to pull over everyone they can - see if they are drinking beer. I don't even have beer on my boat, but they don't know that...until I get pulled over.
Post by: KFhunter on April 02, 2013, 10:47:33 PM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Why does a snowmobiler always giggle when they hear "click click" :dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on April 02, 2013, 10:54:22 PM
Post by: stuckalot on April 03, 2013, 06:23:43 AM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Why does a snowmobiler always giggle when they hear "click click" :dunno:
LOL! KF Share the trail!
The gas tax return is based on the number if registered sleds, and some kind of average gallons per year used. Snowmobilers have to pay tax on every gallon of fuel used off highway, just getting back some of THEIR hard earned money!
The real subsidy comes from snowmobilers paying for upkeep of trail and fascilities for cross country skiers!
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 03, 2013, 08:39:57 AM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Why does a snowmobiler always giggle when they hear "click click" :dunno:
LOL! KF Share the trail!
The gas tax return is based on the number if registered sleds, and some kind of average gallons per year used. Snowmobilers have to pay tax on every gallon of fuel used off highway, just getting back some of THEIR hard earned money!
The real subsidy comes from snowmobilers paying for upkeep of trail and fascilities for cross country skiers!
THERE Yas go Washelk! It's good to know the facts before spewing....
AND certain states (?) have a tendancy to TRY to steal that fund! Any guesses which ones?
Sno Park Passes for Non sledders should also rise equally
Post by: Jingles on April 03, 2013, 08:47:21 AM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Why does a snowmobiler always giggle when they hear "click click" :dunno:
The sweet sound of a snowmobile running across cross country skis
Post by: washelkhunter on April 03, 2013, 11:28:33 AM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Why does a snowmobiler always giggle when they hear "click click" :dunno:
LOL! KF Share the trail!
The gas tax return is based on the number if registered sleds, and some kind of average gallons per year used. Snowmobilers have to pay tax on every gallon of fuel used off highway, just getting
back some of THEIR hard earned money!
The real subsidy comes from snowmobilers paying for upkeep of
trail and fascilities for cross country skiers!
THERE Yas go Washelk! It's good to know the facts before
spewing....
AND certain states (?) have a tendancy to TRY to steal that fund! Any guesses which ones?
Unbelievable! The general publics pockets are being picked to subsidize your recreation. Pay for your own winter sports. You can afford those machines and the support vehicles then i believe you can afford to pay your own trail maint and parking lot clearing!
Sno Park Passes for Non sledders should also rise equally
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 03, 2013, 11:44:02 AM
Post by: stuckalot on April 03, 2013, 07:07:03 PM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Unbelievable! The general publics pockets are being picked to subsidize your recreation. Pay for your own winter sports. You can afford those machines and the support vehicles then i believe you can afford to pay your own trail maint and parking lot clearing!
Dude,
I ' l l T y pe t h i s r e a l l y S L O W s o y o u c a n f o l l o w a l o n g..... Snowmobiliers are ONLY getting back a portion of what they pay in gas taxes for gas that they use OFF-HIGHWAY! I'd be fine with not having that money put into grooming and maintenance if snowmobilers could put tax free gas in their sleds!
[/quote]
[/quote]
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on April 03, 2013, 07:47:23 PM
Post by: bigtex on April 03, 2013, 09:01:44 PM
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on April 04, 2013, 07:27:29 AM
I ' l l T y pe t h i s r e a l l y S L O W s o y o u c a n f o l l o w a l o n g..... Snowmobiliers are ONLY getting back a portion of what they pay in gas taxes for gas that they use OFF-HIGHWAY! I'd be fine with not having that money put into grooming and maintenance if snowmobilers could put tax free gas in their sleds!
You mean that I am not suppose to tax free gas in my sled?
[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]
Post by: snowpack on April 04, 2013, 09:39:35 AM
Wow thanks BIG TEX.I wonder if it will ever end.
What do you think?
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/federal_judge_in_idaho_agrees.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/04/federal_judge_in_idaho_agrees.html)
>:(
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 04, 2013, 11:38:38 AM
Really, my hard earned gas tax money goes to subsidize friggin snowmobile recreation for the rich. Pay $1000 for the fee and get the hell outta my back pocket!
Unbelievable! The general publics pockets are being picked to subsidize your recreation. Pay for your own winter sports. You can afford those machines and the support vehicles then i believe you can afford to pay your own trail maint and parking lot clearing!
Dude,
I ' l l T y pe t h i s r e a l l y S L O W s o y o u c a n f o l l o w a l o n g..... Snowmobiliers are ONLY getting back a portion of what they pay in gas taxes for gas that they use OFF-HIGHWAY! I'd be fine with not having that money put into grooming and maintenance if snowmobilers could put tax free gas in their sleds!
:chuckle:
I'm sure you would be fine with tax free gas for your sled.
Because the diesel I buy for my personal vehicles, the gas I buy for my personal vehicles, the gas I buy for my ATV's, weedeaters, lawnmowers, generators, blah, blah, blah.......help pay for your grooming all the while you get tax free fuel for your sled.
Did I type slow enough?
Post by: stuckalot on April 04, 2013, 07:21:03 PM
Post by: KFhunter on April 04, 2013, 07:51:23 PM
You know they sure seem to have a big voice for such a small crowd.nationwide there isnt that many craoss country skiers out there.just a bunch of people that sit at home making noise about stuff that dont even concern them.we can all share the space.i dont care if there are cross country skiers where i go snow mobiling so why do they need to complain about us.
You haven't had any skiers position themselves crossways in the trails and waive their ski poles at you and flip you off?
All while skiing on a designated snowmobile trail that is clearly marked as snowmobile only?
Suprised if you haven't.
Post by: bigtex on April 17, 2013, 09:42:24 AM
Post by: trophyhunt on April 18, 2013, 03:26:02 PM
Post by: Arnbo on April 18, 2013, 03:40:30 PM
Hippies in their Kayaks NEVER pay to launch and crowd the floats that my launch fees
Pay for. So ya I hear you Sledders out there a bunch of B.S.
Post by: bigtex on January 30, 2014, 01:32:30 PM
On 4/28/2013 HB 2002 was referred from the Senate back to the House
On 1/21/2014 a 2SHB 2002 was passed out of the House Appropriations Committee. The change is the fee will raise from $30 to $40 on October 1, 2014 and from $40 to $50 on October 1, 2015.
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 31, 2014, 10:06:34 AM
Here they come again......
Of course the house.....controlled by seattle democratic granolas
Post by: trophyhunt on January 31, 2014, 10:19:54 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 10:20:20 AM
Here they come again......The prime sponsor is Cary Condotta, a Republican from Chelan, Douglas, and Okanogan Counties.......
Of course the house.....controlled by seattle democratic granolas
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 31, 2014, 10:22:51 AM
Just a recap, on 4/16/2013 HB 2002 passed with a vote of 85-11 and was moved to the Senate
On 4/28/2013 HB 2002 was referred from the Senate back to the House
On 1/21/2014 a 2SHB 2002 was passed out of the House Appropriations Committee. The change is the fee will raise from $30 to $40 on October 1, 2014 and from $40 to $50 on October 1, 2015.
Tex the state system doesn't recognize the bill number, I GET THIS........( Invalid Bill Number )
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 10:27:27 AM
Don't know why its not working for you.Just a recap, on 4/16/2013 HB 2002 passed with a vote of 85-11 and was moved to the Senate
On 4/28/2013 HB 2002 was referred from the Senate back to the House
On 1/21/2014 a 2SHB 2002 was passed out of the House Appropriations Committee. The change is the fee will raise from $30 to $40 on October 1, 2014 and from $40 to $50 on October 1, 2015.
Tex the state system doesn't recognize the bill number, I GET THIS........( Invalid Bill Number )
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2002&year=2014 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2002&year=2014)
Post by: bullcanyon on January 31, 2014, 10:28:47 AM
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 11:27:43 AM
I think this just shows how whenever we see a fee increase in WA we cant automatically assume Democrat. Republicans do their fair share of fee increases as well :twocents:Here they come again......The prime sponsor is Cary Condotta, a Republican from Chelan, Douglas, and Okanogan Counties.......
Of course the house.....controlled by seattle democratic granolas
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 31, 2014, 11:35:55 AM
Post by: buckfvr on January 31, 2014, 11:41:40 AM
Post by: bobcat on January 31, 2014, 11:43:19 AM
Who ever started gromimg trails anyways? Let the snow pile high and proceed at your own risk.:dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 11:48:20 AM
Who ever started gromimg trails anyways? Let the snow pile high and proceed at your own risk.:dunno:You could also say why grade forest roads? If the road gets so potholed then proceed at your own risk..
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 12:12:20 PM
Quite simply, the snowmobilers are funding their own program. If they don't want to continue with grooming then quit snowmobiling. Why should somebody who never snowmobiled before have to pay for grooming? It's another pay to play system.
I'd have no problem if tickets written for snowmobile offenses went into the snowmobile account as well :twocents:
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 31, 2014, 12:18:01 PM
Who ever started gromimg trails anyways? Let the snow pile high and proceed at your own risk.:dunno:You could also say why grade forest roads? If the road gets so potholed then proceed at your own risk..
That works to.... :tup:
Post by: washelkhunter on January 31, 2014, 12:25:47 PM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on January 31, 2014, 12:41:52 PM
Who ever started gromimg trails anyways? Let the snow pile high and proceed at your own risk.:dunno:
:yeah:
Folks that were much better organized than hunters ever will be.....And a higher percentage of us hunt than hunters that sled. Is the snowpark pass for the mostly inconsiderate snowpark clogging (usually to close to trailers to load them) xcountry seattle Subaru crowd? If so - No problem.
and be careful who you sleep with anti access hunters.Who ever started gromimg trails anyways? Let the snow pile high and proceed at your own risk.:dunno:You could also say why grade forest roads? If the road gets so potholed then proceed at your own risk..
That works to.... :tup:
Post by: trophyhunt on January 31, 2014, 01:28:39 PM
Post by: dscubame on January 31, 2014, 02:12:30 PM
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 02:22:06 PM
I wonder big tex if the money from tickets did go to the snowmobile account, would we see sheriff's riding in pairs on the weekends giving tickets still? I under stand pairs makes sense when snowmobiling but how many tickets do they have to write to pay their salaries?Actually the Deputies who are patrolling on snowmobiles (and on some days even the WDFW and USFS Officers) are actually being paid by the snowmobile account which is funded by the registration fees.
As you saw in one of my previous posts, 97% of the fees goes to the snowmobile account and part of that account funds enforcement. Those enforcement $ are given to the agencies to patrol on snowmobile and sno-parks.
For the most part if a deputy is on a snowmobile he is being paid via a state grant funded by the registration fees.
As of right now, snowmobile ticket funds are distributed just like every other traffic ticket (and a snowmobile ticket is technically a traffic citation)
Post by: trophyhunt on January 31, 2014, 02:29:01 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 02:45:32 PM
Gotcha, if I had a memory I would have remembered you explained that to me once before. Thanks, I'm glad it's funds from the snowmobile account and not from the general fund.WDFW and USFS gets some funding from the snowmobile account for this enforcement but it's not to the level of sheriff's which are almost completely funded by the snowmobile account.
WDFW only gets the funding for a couple areas (I think Spokane and maybe Okanogan), so if you see a WDFW Officer doing snowmobile enforcement in Kittitas County for example chances are it's WDFW funding and not snowmobile.
USFS it really depends if it's USFS or snowmobile account money.
Post by: buckfvr on January 31, 2014, 03:07:37 PM
When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.
Its all about increases.................disgusting.
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 04:12:50 PM
I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2014, 04:24:21 PM
I equate some of this to the same Sham as the DP that tries to get one group Sportmen, to pay for another groups services free park attendees. If we let the Shysters in the legislature rob Peter to pay Paul it defeats the design of how our Gov works... It also helps us keep those Jackwagons accountable.
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 04:27:10 PM
I would have voted yes, but because they MAY=will make you purchase a parking pass, i voted no.
The pass portion was apart of the senate bill from 2013 that is dead. The house bill from 2013 that is still active is just the fee increase from 30 to 40 to 50.
Post by: snowpack on January 31, 2014, 04:29:18 PM
Do all the users pay for that maintenance? Are snow mobilers even allowed to make/maintain their own trails? or is it a big push through the bureaucracy to even move a log from a trail?I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2014, 04:31:45 PM
I don't own a sled but wish i could fit it in like every other hobby out there.
I think part of people's frustration with the increasing cost of everything from the state is the simple fact that we cannot engage in more activies that we used to. I think the days of dabbling in a little of every endevor are going the way side due to increast fees, general costs, and the complexity of rules.
Post by: Miles on January 31, 2014, 05:10:06 PM
I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?
Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?
I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 31, 2014, 05:28:05 PM
Post by: bobcat on January 31, 2014, 06:50:20 PM
I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?
Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?
I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.
Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?
Post by: KFhunter on January 31, 2014, 07:00:36 PM
Because if you have 5 sleds you still only need one snow park pass, I'm registering two sleds now but I only use one sticker in the window of my truck.
Post by: Caseyd on January 31, 2014, 07:09:27 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 31, 2014, 07:36:05 PM
You could also say why grade forest roads? If the road gets so potholed then proceed at your own risk..
[/quote]
When the Swakane Canyon road was so rough very few vehicles traveled it, the area never caught fire. When the County graded the road so smooth that the tweakers could drive on it, I thought: "This place will catch fire in a week". Sure enough, a week later it burned right up to the snow line... :bash:
Post by: bullcanyon on January 31, 2014, 07:46:24 PM
Post by: sled on January 31, 2014, 07:58:38 PM
So they were grooming trails for years on $30 per sled and now it will cost $50 per sled to run this program? Am I missing something or were they really that far in the hole with this program? I have no problem paying to play, but when the increases don't jive in my head I get suspicious. I feel a little better after reading what bigtex said about the funds going into the snowmobile program, but I don't trust the state so I don't really believe that all 97% goes into it.:yeah: They Sure Have Not Added Anymore Trails To Groom, Fuel Has Come Back Down, And Only One Operator For The Groomer???? :bdid: :puke:
Unless The Extra Goes Directly To Wintering wildlife :tup:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on January 31, 2014, 09:55:40 PM
Snowmachines, ORV's, ATV's etc are all luxuries. If you can afford them then you can certainly afford to keep up with the necesssry maintenace of resources and inflation. Personnaly i think you' re getting off too cheap.
[/quote
Cars and trucks don't pay fees above and beyond to drive on forest circus roads as afar as I know. ATV's, ORV's, snowmobiles etc are not luxuries, they're something we enjoy. Everybody can get one if they want.
Post by: bigtex on January 31, 2014, 10:17:31 PM
The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.
The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.
Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...
Post by: KFhunter on January 31, 2014, 10:29:51 PM
I've noticed the grooming falling off well below 30% - more like 90%
I wonder if they've pulled grooming off lesser used areas to pool resources in more active areas. Makes since anyways.
Every time I go riding there's folks complaining about the lack of grooming so it must be an issue. I typically ride in Canada, and there is no grooming in most of the areas I prefer to ride but talk about a rough job getting in.
I rode 10-15 miles up to the alpine in 4 - 5 foot deep whoops, dang near wore out just getting to the riding area :chuckle:
but dang it's worth it once you're up there wow!
Post by: bobcat on February 01, 2014, 10:03:02 AM
I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?
Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?
I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.
Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?
When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?
I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...
Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.
Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now. :bash:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Knocker of rocks on February 01, 2014, 10:15:22 AM
When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony
The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.
The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.
Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...
I would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared
Post by: Caseyd on February 01, 2014, 10:26:15 AM
When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimony
The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.
The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.
Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...
I would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared
:yeah:
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on February 01, 2014, 10:52:35 AM
I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?
Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?
I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.
Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?
When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?
I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...
Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.
Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now. :bash:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good Luck with that! Unless maybe one works for a government agency
like so many of these types do :tree1:
Post by: bigtex on February 01, 2014, 12:46:32 PM
Sorry Miles I didn't know I needed to respond to every question.Yes, employers often give "cost of living" raises.When the price of fuel increases, does your employer increase your pay?Well, when the price of fuel decreases, does your employer decrease your pay?So when the price of fuel decreases, will they lower the fees?I know its a damn shame when the price of fuel for groomers increases and they make the people who use the trails pay for it :dunno:When will you post info on Bills that will reduce fees? They are always to increase or develop new fees.Its all about increases.................disgusting.
Couldn't they groom the trails less often to offset the rising price of fuel?
I know....fuel isn't really the reason, but I'm willing to play your game for a while.
I knew Bigtex wouldn't respond directly...
Except my employer hasn't for 5 or 6 years now. :bash:
Well lets look at state employees. They had a 3% reduction in pay from either 2009 or 11 until June 30, 2013.
Federal employees just got a 1% raise, their first raise in I believe 4 years.
Post by: bigtex on February 01, 2014, 12:50:06 PM
It's a cycle. I am sure this year there will be some carryover because of the late start. However I know in the recent good snow years the funding runs out before people stop snowmobiling, so at that point the trails aren't groomed. There have been some years where there is some leftover money after the 16 week period and they continue to groom with the extra money.When the bill had it's committee hearing there were no people in opposition. The following was testimonyI would think there could be a carryover from this year, since grooming costs in many places are about zero, and they probably did sell some passes before the snow disappeared
The budget for the Snowmobile Program is $2.1 million right now and to maintain the current level of service requires about $2.6 million, which does not provide much for equipment replacement, trail expansion, or service level increases. In recent years, the downturn in the economy has led to less funds available for the program and the cost of grooming has increased because of fuel costs. It is very important for there to be adequate grooming, especially for those first learning to ride a snowmobile. Without additional funds the trails will be rougher and less desirable to ride on. Fewer people enjoying the trails and snowmobiling has an impact on the surrounding local businesses and economies. The fee has not been increased in some time. Grooming operators are working under a 28 percent reduction in hours. The state's children and grandchildren should be able to continue experiencing the snowmobiling opportunities in the state. The Snowmobile Program runs for 16 weeks in the winter. For a family to go out and enjoy two days on the snow could cost $350 in fuel alone to ride snowmobiles and play. Asking for the fee increases is a drop in the bucket and only halfway towards reaching sustainability. The program also supports nonmotorized recreation because there is joint use of parking lots and trails with crosscountry skiers and dog mushers. The Washington State Snowmobile Association recommends tying the effective dates to the bill's registration period.
The following people testified: Representative Condotta, prime sponsor; Pamela McConkey and Wayne McLaughlin, Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Jim Hedblom; Mike Couch; Carl Corn, Cascade Drift Skippers Snowmobile Club; and Sandy Sternod and Terry Kohl, Washington State Snowmobile Association.
Looks like the ones who are asking for the increase are the ones who use the program...
Post by: stevemiller on February 01, 2014, 01:18:52 PM
Post by: 509 on February 01, 2014, 07:38:31 PM
Gotcha, if I had a memory I would have remembered you explained that to me once before. Thanks, I'm glad it's funds from the snowmobile account and not from the general fund.WDFW and USFS gets some funding from the snowmobile account for this enforcement but it's not to the level of sheriff's which are almost completely funded by the snowmobile account.
WDFW only gets the funding for a couple areas (I think Spokane and maybe Okanogan), so if you see a WDFW Officer doing snowmobile enforcement in Kittitas County for example chances are it's WDFW funding and not snowmobile.
USFS it really depends if it's USFS or snowmobile account money.
Before I retired from the Forest Service my recommendation was that we issue state parks a special use permit for operating the snowmobile program on National Forest land.
The snowmobilers paid LESS than any other recreational group on the National Forest land for recreation fees. Hopefully, some of this money will go for Forest Service management costs of the snowmobile program. NOBODY else gets such a good deal from the taxpayers.
The Forest Service would automatically get 15% for the program IF the program goes under the special use permit requirements for managing the program.
Unfortunately, in today's world is user pays. Snowmobilers have been pouring ALL their license money into grooming and none into administration of the program. The snowmobile program needs to be put on the same basis as the ORV program.
Post by: bigtex on March 05, 2014, 09:22:10 PM
On March 5 the House passed ESSB 5889 with a vote of 75-23. Those voting against were Blake, Buys, Christian, DeBolt, Haler, Hargrove, Harris, Hayes, Holy, Klippert, Kretz, MacEwen, Orcutt, Overstreet, Parker, Pike, Schmick, Scott, Shea, Short, Stonier, Taylor, and Vick.
It now goes to Inslee for his signature
Snowmobile registration fees will increase from $30 to $40 for the 2014-15 season, and will then increase to $50 for the 2015-16 season and will remain at $50 unless future legislation is enacted..
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 06, 2014, 07:47:33 AM
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 06, 2014, 07:59:04 AM
Engrossed Substitute Senate Bill 5889 passed the WA Senate on Feb 18 with a vote of 38-9. Those voting against were Benton, Dansel, Ericksen, Hewitt, Holmquist Newbry, Padden, Pearson, Rivers, and Roach.I'm Okay with this bill since the sno park BS wasn't in it this year. I see where Pearson opposed it...... But you can put big$$$$$ on the fact that future legislation WILL be enacted
Snowmobile registration fees will increase from $30 to $40 for the 2014-15 season, and will then increase to $50 for the 2015-16 season and will remain at $50 unless future legislation is enacted..
Post by: bigtex on March 06, 2014, 04:04:38 PM
Well remember, this was something that the snowmobile in WA wanted. They were the ones asking for a $20 fee increase.Engrossed Substitute Senate Bill 5889 passed the WA Senate on Feb 18 with a vote of 38-9. Those voting against were Benton, Dansel, Ericksen, Hewitt, Holmquist Newbry, Padden, Pearson, Rivers, and Roach.I'm Okay with this bill since the sno park BS wasn't in it this year. I see where Pearson opposed it...... But you can put big$$$$$ on the fact that future legislation WILL be enacted
Snowmobile registration fees will increase from $30 to $40 for the 2014-15 season, and will then increase to $50 for the 2015-16 season and will remain at $50 unless future legislation is enacted..
Post by: Elkaholic daWg on March 06, 2014, 04:26:27 PM
Well remember, this was something that the snowmobile in WA wanted. They were the ones asking for a $20 fee increase.Engrossed Substitute Senate Bill 5889 passed the WA Senate on Feb 18 with a vote of 38-9. Those voting against were Benton, Dansel, Ericksen, Hewitt, Holmquist Newbry, Padden, Pearson, Rivers, and Roach.I'm Okay with this bill since the sno park BS wasn't in it this year. I see where Pearson opposed it...... But you can put big$$$$$ on the fact that future legislation WILL be enacted
Snowmobile registration fees will increase from $30 to $40 for the 2014-15 season, and will then increase to $50 for the 2015-16 season and will remain at $50 unless future legislation is enacted..
:yeah: :tup: I'm good with it!