Post by: mulehunter on April 25, 2013, 09:24:07 AM
Post by: boneaddict on April 25, 2013, 09:29:23 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on April 25, 2013, 09:30:05 AM
Post by: cmiller85 on April 25, 2013, 09:48:26 AM
Post by: muzbuster on April 25, 2013, 09:58:28 AM
Post by: snowpack on April 25, 2013, 10:14:53 AM
Post by: wolfbait on April 25, 2013, 12:05:15 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs20.postimg.org%2Fyi9skg7vh%2FWDFW_s_Released_Wolves_kill_a_cow_and_calf.jpg&hash=0d422c0ca76d1fcf30759835a549c29be4f4181d)
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 25, 2013, 12:08:30 PM
Post by: RoyBoy on April 25, 2013, 12:14:05 PM
Post by: SkookumHntr on April 25, 2013, 12:15:03 PM
Post by: Evil_EdwardO on April 25, 2013, 12:24:17 PM
“By the time we got to the carcass it was too old for me to say yay or nay if it was killed by a wolf,” said Scott Fitkin, wildlife biologist with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. “It was clearly fed on by something, but not much was left but a lot of maggots.” Fitkin and a USDA Wildlife Services agent inspected the carcass on Friday (May 22).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs20.postimg.org%2Fyi9skg7vh%2FWDFW_s_Released_Wolves_kill_a_cow_and_calf.jpg&hash=0d422c0ca76d1fcf30759835a549c29be4f4181d)
Duh, maggots...obviously they have a fly problem not wolves.
Post by: BIGINNER on April 25, 2013, 12:26:25 PM
“By the time we got to the carcass it was too old for me to say yay or nay if it was killed by a wolf,” said Scott Fitkin, wildlife biologist with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. “It was clearly fed on by something, but not much was left but a lot of maggots.” Fitkin and a USDA Wildlife Services agent inspected the carcass on Friday (May 22).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs20.postimg.org%2Fyi9skg7vh%2FWDFW_s_Released_Wolves_kill_a_cow_and_calf.jpg&hash=0d422c0ca76d1fcf30759835a549c29be4f4181d)
this photo is from Oregon,.. right?
Post by: wolfbait on April 25, 2013, 12:32:56 PM
“By the time we got to the carcass it was too old for me to say yay or nay if it was killed by a wolf,” said Scott Fitkin, wildlife biologist with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. “It was clearly fed on by something, but not much was left but a lot of maggots.” Fitkin and a USDA Wildlife Services agent inspected the carcass on Friday (May 22).
http://www.conservationnw.org/pressroom/press-clips/proof-of-wolf-kill-may-elude-investigators (http://www.conservationnw.org/pressroom/press-clips/proof-of-wolf-kill-may-elude-investigators)
When experts examined the decomposing cow May 22, it had been so worked over by scavengers that there was little left but hide and hip bones.
Even so, "there was nothing about the carcass to indicate that wolves had anything to do with it," said Doug Zimmer, a spokesman for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009307261_wolves06m.html (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2009307261_wolves06m.html)
Post by: Huntboy on April 25, 2013, 01:05:12 PM
Judging by the half eaten carcass and the presence of wolves in the area, I have no doubt that this calf was hit by a car. This is consistent with the fact that the calf was born at night and was not wearing a reflective safety vest. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: MtnMuley on April 25, 2013, 01:37:36 PM
“By the time we got to the carcass it was too old for me to say yay or nay if it was killed by a wolf,” said Scott Fitkin, wildlife biologist with the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. “It was clearly fed on by something, but not much was left but a lot of maggots.” Fitkin and a USDA Wildlife Services agent inspected the carcass on Friday (May 22).
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs20.postimg.org%2Fyi9skg7vh%2FWDFW_s_Released_Wolves_kill_a_cow_and_calf.jpg&hash=0d422c0ca76d1fcf30759835a549c29be4f4181d)
this photo is from Oregon,.. right?
No. Methow
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 25, 2013, 01:44:16 PM
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Post by: Taco280AI on April 25, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
Post by: bullchaser on April 25, 2013, 01:53:15 PM
It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 25, 2013, 02:02:04 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on April 25, 2013, 02:08:26 PM
It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
You're dealing with a guy that's too ignorant to argue against his fellow biologists. Sad if you ask me, because he seems like a wealth of information and knowledge, but too stubborn to call a spade a spade. :twocents:
Post by: Northway on April 25, 2013, 02:10:39 PM
It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
It was "clearly" a wolf? It sounds to me like the only ones who have seen the evidence first hand are the WDFW personnel and the rancher. It must be a lot of fun to do a job where if you don't blame a wolf for every calf carcass you get called to, you're a liar with an agenda and worthy of all sorts of slander.
I'm willing to acknowledge that the WDFW will not get it right every time; that there will be calves killed by wolves that are not determined to be wolf kills. But a man/woman who may take their job quite seriously shouldn't be condemned based on conjecture and hearsay.
Those folks don't make enough money to be run through the ringer because people are frustrated that we ended up with a flawed wolf plan.
Post by: villageidiot on April 25, 2013, 02:10:52 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 25, 2013, 02:17:43 PM
Which guy are you talking about MtnMuley?It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
You're dealing with a guy that's too ignorant to argue against his fellow biologists. Sad if you ask me, because he seems like a wealth of information and knowledge, but too stubborn to call a spade a spade. :twocents:
Post by: snowpack on April 25, 2013, 02:24:14 PM
Post by: JLS on April 25, 2013, 02:27:21 PM
It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
Kind of making assumptions aren't you? You want WDFW to be objective, but the pitchfork crowd here sure isn't.
Post by: bullchaser on April 25, 2013, 02:40:47 PM
It sounds like the bios did their job well and will give an honest answer when they have one.
It seems like you guys are hoping that wolves killed the calf??? Why?
Really? the Game wardens are looking for reasons why it was not a Wolf when it clearly was, that puts most of us on the defensive from the get go.
Whateaver you guys are eintitled to your own opinion although My opinion is that this kind of ridiculous questioning of the facts has led to the massive decline of the Ungulate populations in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. why not add us to the list?
Post by: wolfbait on April 25, 2013, 04:07:47 PM
Now lets look at WDFW's history in confirming wolf killed livestock: You have just seen the Golden Doe cow, that cow had a new calf on her. Why didn't WDFW or the USFWS mention this when they ran to the papers and conservation NW with their BS story?
Bernard therlow saw the wolves that killed his calf and chewed up a few more, WDFW went with probable.
John Stevie had his dog mauled by a wolf and WDFW wanted to go with cougar, and then the news hit the net. They then called John and told him they would pay his vet bills, until it hit the net, and they had to back pedal.
Wolf kill fails to placate Washington rancher
August 9, 2012
"They distort facts so much, they've lied to us continually on this thing," he said. "First they said there was no wolves in the area. We showed them that there was. Then they said there might be wolves, but they'll never eat a cow. We showed them that they did."
McIrvin said wolf activity has been escalating. Last year 11 calves and five bulls were killed, he said. He will tally how many have been killed this year in the fall.
http://www.bluemountaineagle.com/news/state_national/wolf-kill-fails-to-placate-washington-rancher/article_f9b7ebce-e264-11e1-811c-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=print (http://www.bluemountaineagle.com/news/state_national/wolf-kill-fails-to-placate-washington-rancher/article_f9b7ebce-e264-11e1-811c-0019bb2963f4.html?mode=print)
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Ross Hurd, the rancher who owns the cattle with his two brothers, said he disagrees with the agency's conclusions. He said the agency's iunvestigators talked about the path of the struggle over some 30 yards, and the disturbed ground, and the bloody wound on the back of the cow's neck. He also said he understands that the agency needs specific evidence to confirm it was a wolf kill, but he doesn't understand how the agency can conclude a wolf did not kill his cow. http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/mar/28/wolves-didnt-kill-cow-state-says/ (http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/mar/28/wolves-didnt-kill-cow-state-says/)
The only time WA hears about wolf kills is when the public exposes them.
And then there's Scott Fitkin and his glowing deer reports, which equals firestarter or toilet paper. This year if ten hunters show up and kill six bucks, Fitkin will lope to the local paper and say deer season was a success for the amount of hunters that showed up. Welcome to WDFW. WDF&Wolves
Post by: villageidiot on April 25, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
Post by: snowpack on April 25, 2013, 06:42:21 PM
Post by: wolfbait on April 26, 2013, 06:52:56 AM
Thanks for the follow up VI. I was curious in a way because it seems like there have been quite a few wolf kills in that area in recent news...kind of like ranchers lose a few critters here and there over time, but recently it seems like something is taking more than a few. In the past, didn't hear about as many animals being lost. Also, since he's lost critters to other predators he probably has a good idea what each of the other predators' kills look like.
In the past there was more prey for wolves, we are seeing the last of our deer killed along county roads and close to home on the valley floor. I'm sure everyone knows of the spring deer migration, where deer head for the high country. Last year it was barely noticeable, this spring it seemed there was nothing left to migrate. Yesterday I drove between two wolves chasing a doe a couple of miles out of Twisp, this was about one in the afternoon, her mouth hanging wide open and barely able to run anymore. I'm not the only one who has seen this happening this spring. The other day a wolf left a pile of wolf chit on the porch of a wolf lover a couple of mile out of Twisp, the lady was speechless, she said the wolves aren't suppose to be chitting on her porch they are supose to be in the wilderness.
In 2008 WDFW were finally forced into confirming one wolf pack in the Methow, they could have confirmed two more packs at that time.
"Dr. Bergerud, Dr. Robert Taylor and others disagreed with reintroduction of any wolves unless wolf numbers were strictly managed from the beginning – including in Yellowstone National Park – to prevent severe declines in elk and moose populations. They also warned that 10 breeding pairs exceeded total wolf habitat in YNP and the surplus wolves would spill over into other areas, causing unacceptable increases in livestock predation.
In other words, regardless of how many wolves are considered necessary to maintain genetic diversity, there was not enough designated wilderness in the three recovery areas to support even the proposed 30 breeding pairs without excessively impacting existing prey species and ranchers' livestock. With Congress insisting that the impact of wolf reintroduction must be minimal, wolf biologists began providing false information regarding the number of prey animals the average wolf would kill each year and about how many prey animals actually existed
Ignoring the studies indicating that wolves kill two to three times as many prey animals as they can consume, the wolf advocates promoted the lie that wolves kill only what they can eat. The wolf EIS estimated the average wolf would kill only 12 big game animals per year in YNP* – including both elk and deer."
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Existence of Many Wolves Ignored
Bangs also explained that it was too difficult to locate individual wolves or small groups of wolves that were not packs and emphasized that the existence of these wolves was not important to recovery. Once the transplanted wolves began pairing and successfully raising young, the Nez Perce and FWS recovery teams declined to investigate sightings of individual wolves or groups unless they involved livestock killing. But even then, if the livestock was moved to a different location and/or the wolf predation stopped, any investigation abruptly ceased. In some parts of Idaho where wolf populations are excessive, including the county we live in, local citizens report frustration over the Wolf Teams’ refusal to investigate reports of apparent pack activity unless there is evidence of at least two pups. The excuse used by the FWS/NezPerce Team for its failure to investigate such activity is that it is too expensive but it also is not interested in recording wolves unless they meet the confirmed wolf criteria agreed upon by Bangs, Ted Koch and Steve Fritts in 1994. The exception is the need to radio-collar one or more wolves to facilitate removal of one or more members of a pack that continue
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Wolf Numbers Underestimated
There are so many variables involved in attempting to estimate the total number of wolves in a state that any such estimate is prone to large errors even with the best information available. But when the existence of every wolf that has not been part of a "collared" pack is ignored, any such estimate is suspect.
For example, local residents reported several wolf packs in Boise County yet FWS had documented only two. When the Team finally documented the existence of three more packs there were 2-1/2 times as many wolf packs as had been recorded and a similar increase in the number of breeding pairs – indicated both by pups and by yearlings that were born in the prior year and survived.
Although FWS goes back and adjusts the number of breeding pairs for the prior year when this evidence is documented, this system always results in initially underestimating both total wolves and breeding pairs.
Recovery goals in all three states were met at least 2-3 years before then current FWS estimates said they were, yet the actual number of breeding pairs was not admitted and recorded until after the fact.
http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf (http://www.idahoforwildlife.com/Website%20articles/George%20Dovel/The_Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf)
Post by: AspenBud on April 26, 2013, 10:45:44 AM
Thanks for the follow up VI. I was curious in a way because it seems like there have been quite a few wolf kills in that area in recent news...kind of like ranchers lose a few critters here and there over time, but recently it seems like something is taking more than a few. In the past, didn't hear about as many animals being lost. Also, since he's lost critters to other predators he probably has a good idea what each of the other predators' kills look like.
In the past there was more prey for wolves,
In the past there weren't as many wolves either.
Does anyone know if WDFW has done any real research on ungulate numbers other than basing herd health on hunting harvest numbers? For that matter, do they have a target number for each species and if so, how are they verifying that number is holding?
Post by: lucky33 on April 29, 2013, 08:50:15 AM
Post by: boneaddict on April 29, 2013, 08:54:45 AM
Thanks for the follow up VI. I was curious in a way because it seems like there have been quite a few wolf kills in that area in recent news...kind of like ranchers lose a few critters here and there over time, but recently it seems like something is taking more than a few. In the past, didn't hear about as many animals being lost. Also, since he's lost critters to other predators he probably has a good idea what each of the other predators' kills look like.
Most ranchers have a dang good idea/perception of why an animal dies or is killed. They deal with life and death and the line between everyday. One of the main reasons I scoff at the bios coming in a week later and saying.....blah blah blah, especially when the wolf is filmed before AND after at the same spot. Its like holding a smoking gun so to speak.
Post by: villageidiot on April 29, 2013, 11:37:36 AM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 29, 2013, 11:43:43 AM
Post by: wolfbait on April 29, 2013, 07:27:29 PM
It doesn't sound like the bios/sheriff were trying to deny it was a wolf. It sounds like they want to be certain before they make "confirmation"...which makes sense, right?
The deputies haven't been trained yet in wolf kills and one of the bios has been proven to be incompetent in wolf killed livestock, either that or he is a liar?
Post by: teanawayslayer on April 29, 2013, 07:52:04 PM
I think incompetent and a liar fits perfect :tup:It doesn't sound like the bios/sheriff were trying to deny it was a wolf. It sounds like they want to be certain before they make "confirmation"...which makes sense, right?
The deputies haven't been trained yet in wolf kills and one of the bios has been proven to be incompetent in wolf killed livestock, either that or he is a liar?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on April 30, 2013, 07:08:04 AM
Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?
Post by: wolfbait on April 30, 2013, 02:08:17 PM
Is that so? Proven as incompetent by whom? You? The "resident wolf expert"... Give me a break. :rolleyes:
Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?
Great come-back there swifty- See now lets go with incompetent first, Scott Fitkin see's cow with ass ate off and no calf and signs of cow/wolf struggle. That would be the first clue, and no calf would be the second clue.
Did you ask Scott about the wolf pictures he pulled off the trail cam? I bet he wishs he would have left the card blank now, as it proved he lied about what was left of the cow.
Then we can go with how well the deer are doing in the Methow according to Scott, another joke.
"Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?" Is that your WDFW mouth wash WAcoyote? What is not confirmed :chuckle:
Where did the WDFW or USFWS tell the truth about the cow and calf?
How long can you cover up a lie? Maybe add more deer, elk habitat? Like wildlife corridoors?
Are you working for WDFW WAcoyote?
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 30, 2013, 02:57:14 PM
Is that so? Proven as incompetent by whom? You? The "resident wolf expert"... Give me a break. :rolleyes:
Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?
Great come-back there swifty- See now lets go with incompetent first, Scott Fitkin see's cow with ass ate off and no calf and signs of cow/wolf struggle. That would be the first clue, and no calf would be the second clue.
Did you ask Scott about the wolf pictures he pulled off the trail cam? I bet he wishs he would have left the card blank now, as it proved he lied about what was left of the cow.
Then we can go with how well the deer are doing in the Methow according to Scott, another joke.
"Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?" Is that your WDFW mouth wash WAcoyote? What is not confirmed :chuckle:
Where did the WDFW or USFWS tell the truth about the cow and calf?
How long can you cover up a lie? Maybe add more deer, elk habitat? Like wildlife corridoors?
Are you working for WDFW WAcoyote?
Is Fitkin the "incompetent" one who is performing the investigation, doing the necropsy, working with the lab for results and will make the confirmation of cause of death?
The rest of what you had to say is about past incidents, your personal opinions and just general piling on which has nothing relevant to confirming the cause of death in this instance.
I do respect what you have to say through your first hand experiences wolfbait. I do respect your efforts in the fight against wolves. Thank You!!!
But, to make unfounded accusations over and over again makes this wolfbait supporter question your integrity. If your going to discredit someone/something, you better have some solid proof backed up with an army of well educated team of experts.
Want another example?
How many times have you stated publicly here on HuntWa that the WDFW has transplanted/released wolves? Quite a few times, correct?
How many times have you been asked publicly on HuntWa to prove said releases/transplants have occurred via pictures or a written statement from the WDFW that they have occurred? Quite a few, correct? Yet you provide nothing, nada, zip, correct?
It's unfounded accusations wolfbait. Concentrate on the effort at hand and quit making up stories to attempt to substaniate your personal beliefs.
Post by: wolfbait on April 30, 2013, 03:18:03 PM
Have you ever been in the woods 6x6in6 on a fresh kill, not your own but from another animal? If so did you call WDFW and ask them to skin it for you then run it to the lab, to see what killed it? Or were you able at all to tell the story written on the ground? Or did you call WDFW and have them run it through Olympia?
What the hell happened to common sense? Geeze 6x6 I thought you were smarter than that.
Post by: wolfbait on April 30, 2013, 03:28:51 PM
Is that so? Proven as incompetent by whom? You? The "resident wolf expert"... Give me a break. :rolleyes:
Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?
Great come-back there swifty- See now lets go with incompetent first, Scott Fitkin see's cow with ass ate off and no calf and signs of cow/wolf struggle. That would be the first clue, and no calf would be the second clue.
Did you ask Scott about the wolf pictures he pulled off the trail cam? I bet he wishs he would have left the card blank now, as it proved he lied about what was left of the cow.
Then we can go with how well the deer are doing in the Methow according to Scott, another joke.
"Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?" Is that your WDFW mouth wash WAcoyote? What is not confirmed :chuckle:
Where did the WDFW or USFWS tell the truth about the cow and calf?
How long can you cover up a lie? Maybe add more deer, elk habitat? Like wildlife corridoors?
Are you working for WDFW WAcoyote?
Is Fitkin the "incompetent" one who is performing the investigation, doing the necropsy, working with the lab for results and will make the confirmation of cause of death?
The rest of what you had to say is about past incidents, your personal opinions and just general piling on which has nothing relevant to confirming the cause of death in this instance.
I do respect what you have to say through your first hand experiences wolfbait. I do respect your efforts in the fight against wolves. Thank You!!!
But, to make unfounded accusations over and over again makes this wolfbait supporter question your integrity. If your going to discredit someone/something, you better have some solid proof backed up with an army of well educated team of experts.
Want another example?
How many times have you stated publicly here on HuntWa that the WDFW has transplanted/released wolves? Quite a few times, correct?
How many times have you been asked publicly on HuntWa to prove said releases/transplants have occurred via pictures or a written statement from the WDFW that they have occurred? Quite a few, correct? Yet you provide nothing, nada, zip, correct?
It's unfounded accusations wolfbait. Concentrate on the effort at hand and quit making up stories to attempt to substaniate your personal beliefs.
"It's unfounded accusations wolfbait. Concentrate on the effort at hand and quit making up stories to attempt to substaniate your personal beliefs."
Everything I have said is true, I know it for fact, and in the end you will see it also. That won't matter anymore because #1 you will not be hunting and #2 you will be on to your next bitch about what should or shouldn't have happen.
Post by: 6x6in6 on April 30, 2013, 03:57:52 PM
Is that so? Proven as incompetent by whom? You? The "resident wolf expert"... Give me a break. :rolleyes:
Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?
Great come-back there swifty- See now lets go with incompetent first, Scott Fitkin see's cow with ass ate off and no calf and signs of cow/wolf struggle. That would be the first clue, and no calf would be the second clue.
Did you ask Scott about the wolf pictures he pulled off the trail cam? I bet he wishs he would have left the card blank now, as it proved he lied about what was left of the cow.
Then we can go with how well the deer are doing in the Methow according to Scott, another joke.
"Where in the article did they deny that it was a wolf kill? Why is the concept of CONFIRMATION so difficult to understand?" Is that your WDFW mouth wash WAcoyote? What is not confirmed :chuckle:
Where did the WDFW or USFWS tell the truth about the cow and calf?
How long can you cover up a lie? Maybe add more deer, elk habitat? Like wildlife corridoors?
Are you working for WDFW WAcoyote?
Is Fitkin the "incompetent" one who is performing the investigation, doing the necropsy, working with the lab for results and will make the confirmation of cause of death?
The rest of what you had to say is about past incidents, your personal opinions and just general piling on which has nothing relevant to confirming the cause of death in this instance.
I do respect what you have to say through your first hand experiences wolfbait. I do respect your efforts in the fight against wolves. Thank You!!!
But, to make unfounded accusations over and over again makes this wolfbait supporter question your integrity. If your going to discredit someone/something, you better have some solid proof backed up with an army of well educated team of experts.
Want another example?
How many times have you stated publicly here on HuntWa that the WDFW has transplanted/released wolves? Quite a few times, correct?
How many times have you been asked publicly on HuntWa to prove said releases/transplants have occurred via pictures or a written statement from the WDFW that they have occurred? Quite a few, correct? Yet you provide nothing, nada, zip, correct?
It's unfounded accusations wolfbait. Concentrate on the effort at hand and quit making up stories to attempt to substaniate your personal beliefs.
"It's unfounded accusations wolfbait. Concentrate on the effort at hand and quit making up stories to attempt to substaniate your personal beliefs."
Everything I have said is true, I know it for fact, and in the end you will see it also. That won't matter anymore because #1 you will not be hunting and #2 you will be on to your next bitch about what should or shouldn't have happen.
If you know it's true and to be fact, prove it. Why do we all need to wait to the end to see it if you know it's true and fact?
#1 - I'll hunt wolves. OK, that's not intended to be funny...
#2 - Where did I say my next bitch session should or shouldn't have happened? Don't attempt to put words in my mouth, it's a waste of your typing efforts.
If you want to continue to garner support, and for the record I do have the utmost respect for your efforts and I again thank you, just please provide the proof sir. Providing proof will rally support. Smearing the opposition with your words and without proof does not carry as much weight with the fence sitters as proof does.
Post by: teanawayslayer on April 30, 2013, 04:16:24 PM
Post by: wolfbait on April 30, 2013, 06:18:34 PM
"If you want to continue to garner support, and for the record I do have the utmost respect for your efforts and I again thank you, just please provide the proof sir. Providing proof will rally support. Smearing the opposition with your words and without proof does not carry as much weight with the fence sitters as proof does."
I don't believe I have smeared anyone, I just stated the facts, and as far as the proof you should be able to see that today with wolves that have popped out all over WA.
The fence sitters, how do you think they could make a difference at this point? Who cares if they spend the rest of their lives pulling slivers?
It was probably too late by the time WDFW were finally forced to confirm their lie of first wolf pack in 70 years in 2008.
For the reccord, at this point it really doesn't matter how anyone feels about wolves. The people who like the saying we have wolves and they are here to stay, don't realize that in the end we will have wolves and little else. As time goes on, many people will realize just how great the USFWS and WDFW wolves really are. WDFW will be the most disliked agencie in WA just like IDFG and other state game agencies who play the wolf game.
Post by: h2ofowlr on April 30, 2013, 06:43:48 PM
Time and time again wolf lovers have shown that they only want nature to take it's course without human interaction. They don't think humans should be harming any animals and there for the wolves will balance everything out. Unfortunately this will leave slim pickings for the number of hunters out there.
Tag soup will be a common theme down the road.
Post by: bobcat on April 30, 2013, 07:04:52 PM
Quote
Tag soup will be a common theme down the road.
True, for all but the wolf tags. :tup:
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 01, 2013, 07:20:50 AM
6x6-
"If you want to continue to garner support, and for the record I do have the utmost respect for your efforts and I again thank you, just please provide the proof sir. Providing proof will rally support. Smearing the opposition with your words and without proof does not carry as much weight with the fence sitters as proof does."
I don't believe I have smeared anyone, I just stated the facts, and as far as the proof you should be able to see that today with wolves that have popped out all over WA.
The fence sitters, how do you think they could make a difference at this point? Who cares if they spend the rest of their lives pulling slivers?
It was probably too late by the time WDFW were finally forced to confirm their lie of first wolf pack in 70 years in 2008.
For the reccord, at this point it really doesn't matter how anyone feels about wolves. The people who like the saying we have wolves and they are here to stay, don't realize that in the end we will have wolves and little else. As time goes on, many people will realize just how great the USFWS and WDFW wolves really are. WDFW will be the most disliked agencie in WA just like IDFG and other state game agencies who play the wolf game.
Wolfbait, you really haven't given many facts. The fact is, the TRAINED personell examined the calf kill and did their best. They are waiting for confirmation. I suspect it will come back as a wolf.
Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance and "matter of fact" attitude. Clearly, you have no interest in actually helping the situation. You are a rabble rouser and a blowhard and that's what caused your hiatus a while back.
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 01, 2013, 07:31:17 AM
I think the Dept. is now being trained on how defuse situations and how to present information in a P.C. method. Make no judgment calls and limit liability and do damage control in terms potential wolf kills. They know the hunters don't like them, but have had limited voice on these matters. The wolf lovers, Conservation NW and others have learned how to make lots of noise and silence the dept while they push their agenda.
Time and time again wolf lovers have shown that they only want nature to take it's course without human interaction. They don't think humans should be harming any animals and there for the wolves will balance everything out. Unfortunately this will leave slim pickings for the number of hunters out there.
Tag soup will be a common theme down the road.
Especially since they have their own representation on the commission.
Post by: wolfbait on May 01, 2013, 07:42:56 AM
6x6-
"If you want to continue to garner support, and for the record I do have the utmost respect for your efforts and I again thank you, just please provide the proof sir. Providing proof will rally support. Smearing the opposition with your words and without proof does not carry as much weight with the fence sitters as proof does."
I don't believe I have smeared anyone, I just stated the facts, and as far as the proof you should be able to see that today with wolves that have popped out all over WA.
The fence sitters, how do you think they could make a difference at this point? Who cares if they spend the rest of their lives pulling slivers?
It was probably too late by the time WDFW were finally forced to confirm their lie of first wolf pack in 70 years in 2008.
For the reccord, at this point it really doesn't matter how anyone feels about wolves. The people who like the saying we have wolves and they are here to stay, don't realize that in the end we will have wolves and little else. As time goes on, many people will realize just how great the USFWS and WDFW wolves really are. WDFW will be the most disliked agencie in WA just like IDFG and other state game agencies who play the wolf game.
Wolfbait, you really haven't given many facts. The fact is, the TRAINED personell examined the calf kill and did their best. They are waiting for confirmation. I suspect it will come back as a wolf.
Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance and "matter of fact" attitude. Clearly, you have no interest in actually helping the situation. You are a rabble rouser and a blowhard and that's what caused your hiatus a while back.
Wycoyote if WDFW comes back that this latest calf was kill by a wolf it will be a shocker :yike: What has changed between now and last year when Thurlow saw the wolves that killed his calf? What has changed since The Golden Doe cow and calf killing? What went wrong with the investigators on the Wenatchee cow? How is the evidence so different?
The Golden Doe cow and calf was a slam dunk, yet the "investigators" refuse to confirm as a wolf kill. Hell the people staying at the house heard the wolves howling at two in the morning and saw the wolves that morning. And yet Scott Fitkin said by the time he got to it there was nothing left but a pile of maggots.
"Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance and "matter of fact" attitude. Clearly, you have no interest in actually helping the situation."
There's going to be less facts slipping through WDFW's crack in the future.
Documentation WC, Documentation. Check out the Chronicle today :tup:
Post by: Northway on May 01, 2013, 10:50:11 AM
6x6-
"If you want to continue to garner support, and for the record I do have the utmost respect for your efforts and I again thank you, just please provide the proof sir. Providing proof will rally support. Smearing the opposition with your words and without proof does not carry as much weight with the fence sitters as proof does."
I don't believe I have smeared anyone, I just stated the facts, and as far as the proof you should be able to see that today with wolves that have popped out all over WA.
The fence sitters, how do you think they could make a difference at this point? Who cares if they spend the rest of their lives pulling slivers?
It was probably too late by the time WDFW were finally forced to confirm their lie of first wolf pack in 70 years in 2008.
For the reccord, at this point it really doesn't matter how anyone feels about wolves. The people who like the saying we have wolves and they are here to stay, don't realize that in the end we will have wolves and little else. As time goes on, many people will realize just how great the USFWS and WDFW wolves really are. WDFW will be the most disliked agencie in WA just like IDFG and other state game agencies who play the wolf game.
Wolfbait, you really haven't given many facts. The fact is, the TRAINED personell examined the calf kill and did their best. They are waiting for confirmation. I suspect it will come back as a wolf.
Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance and "matter of fact" attitude. Clearly, you have no interest in actually helping the situation. You are a rabble rouser and a blowhard and that's what caused your hiatus a while back.
Wycoyote if WDFW comes back that this latest calf was kill by a wolf it will be a shocker :yike: What has changed between now and last year when Thurlow saw the wolves that killed his calf? What has changed since The Golden Doe cow and calf killing? What went wrong with the investigators on the Wenatchee cow? How is the evidence so different?
The Golden Doe cow and calf was a slam dunk, yet the "investigators" refuse to confirm as a wolf kill. Hell the people staying at the house heard the wolves howling at two in the morning and saw the wolves that morning. And yet Scott Fitkin said by the time he got to it there was nothing left but a pile of maggots.
"Your ignorance is only overshadowed by your arrogance and "matter of fact" attitude. Clearly, you have no interest in actually helping the situation."
There's going to be less facts slipping through WDFW's crack in the future.
Documentation WC, Documentation. Check out the Chronicle today :tup:
Have you ever met Scott Fitkin, Wolfbait?
If so, when you met him, what did you think of him?
Post by: wolfbait on May 01, 2013, 12:42:58 PM
WDFW went with a coyote killed the calf, no surprise there. Just one more documented case of WDFW lying to the public. Ranchers have seen it is worthless to call WDFW regarding wolf kills on their livestock. SS-Shoot and shut up will probably be their wolf problem solver.
Post by: villageidiot on May 11, 2013, 06:01:04 AM
This rancher still has not got any phone call or any type notification from WDFW as the results of their investigation. He has heard rumors they are saying it was coyotes. If this is true then they are clearly ignoring all the incriminating evidence he presented to them. The integrity of WDFW is typical. The ranchers that were watching this calf kill have decided the Montana ranchers advice is the only way to fix this problem since WDFW never even had the respect and dignitynto even call him back. SSS
Post by: wolfbait on May 11, 2013, 11:47:34 AM
This rancher still has not got any phone call or any type notification from WDFW as the results of their investigation. He has heard rumors they are saying it was coyotes. If this is true then they are clearly ignoring all the incriminating evidence he presented to them. The integrity of WDFW is typical. The ranchers that were watching this calf kill have decided the Montana ranchers advice is the only way to fix this problem since WDFW never even had the respect and dignitynto even call him back. SSS
Well thats no surprise, WDFW are lookin mighty chitty on this last call, but no more chitty then the rest of their BS lies. People are just getting fed up with the "one maybe two" wolves story Fitkin likes to run with, that travel with his deer reports.
This last Tuseday a big black wolf was seen crossing the road at the Methow Valley Lumber in Twisp, and a local got a picturte of a wolf chasing cows in broad daylight just few miles from Twisp.
In 2008 WA had it's first wolf pack in "70 years" and now WA is flooded with wolves. I guess the wolves had a meeting one night and decided after living for 70 years in Alberta, and 17 in Idaho they needed a change and flipped a coin for WA.
Whats one more lie from WDF&Wolves!
Post by: boneaddict on May 11, 2013, 12:44:17 PM
Post by: wolfbait on May 12, 2013, 08:10:38 AM
Reported in another post. I saw one yesterday on Red Top Mountain, sign everywhere. Its not even notable anymore. It was almost 90s and about 1 in the afternoon. Who'd have guessed.
Couple of days ago a guy and his wife saw six above the Bear Cr golf course, these wolves have been seen in the area since January and is public knowledge, and yet Fitkin still claims there are only one or two wolves left. I wonder if WDFW know how stupid they look? Do they realize they have no credibility left.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on May 13, 2013, 09:00:03 PM
Get some pictures and push the issue.
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 13, 2013, 09:12:19 PM
Why can't anyone produce a photo of these wolves and push the issue? If they are hiding behind every tree over there, why no pics?What good are pics gonna do? WDFW will just twist it and lie anyways. That's what goes on with the sightings and pics that have been shown.
Get some pictures and push the issue.
Post by: villageidiot on June 23, 2013, 08:21:46 PM
Post by: villageidiot on June 23, 2013, 08:25:43 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on June 24, 2013, 01:57:30 AM
Post by: wolfbait on June 24, 2013, 05:34:04 PM
So many rural folks are learning that wolves are not the skittish pups that WDFW have told them about. The USFWS and state game agencies who lied, and then were proven to be liars have lost all credibility. And yet they continue to lie.
Post by: skidynastar33 on June 24, 2013, 09:43:54 PM
Post by: mulehunter on June 24, 2013, 10:05:55 PM
WDFW :pee:
Post by: villageidiot on June 24, 2013, 10:08:17 PM
Post by: villageidiot on June 24, 2013, 10:10:33 PM
Post by: villageidiot on June 24, 2013, 10:12:08 PM
Post by: huntnphool on June 24, 2013, 10:12:30 PM
The last one looks like a wolf though
Post by: villageidiot on June 24, 2013, 10:15:40 PM
Post by: boneaddict on June 25, 2013, 04:40:49 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 25, 2013, 05:03:20 AM
Post by: floatinghat on June 25, 2013, 03:15:39 PM
Post by: villageidiot on June 25, 2013, 10:26:13 PM
Post by: JLS on June 25, 2013, 10:27:19 PM
One more mystery calf killer. Can't be a wolf because the experts say it's coyotes. You decide.
Coyote.
Post by: KFhunter on June 25, 2013, 10:36:55 PM
When you see lots of black hairs it's not a coyote.
lol - suuuure
Post by: Alchase on June 26, 2013, 12:26:43 PM
One more mystery calf killer. Can't be a wolf because the experts say it's coyotes. You decide.
Sorry, but that looks like a coyotes to me as well
Post by: mulehunter on June 26, 2013, 01:15:07 PM
1st pic match same breed line look out pack as #58
2nd pic Wolf face how shape it look almost same as # 66
And other pics good view to see and this are Lookout Pack.
Post by: bearpaw on June 26, 2013, 01:20:34 PM
More mystery calf killers.
This definitely a wolf, absolutely no doubt on this photo.
Post by: bearpaw on June 26, 2013, 01:21:50 PM
Twisp rancher never did get a call or letter identifying what killed his calf. He now has several trail camera pictures of wolves coming back to the place the calf was killed. WDFW informed the newspaper they think it was coyotes that ate 40 lbs. of the calf while the mother cow stood by and watched. The rancher has given up on notifying WDFW since he gave them all the photos of wolves, tracks and wolf scat within 10 feet of the killed calf. With no compensation for a calf killed and not even a response from the investigation of the killed calf then it appears the ranchers are forced to take the other options.
This appears to be a wolf, far too much body mass to be a coyote.
Post by: bearpaw on June 26, 2013, 01:23:28 PM
Post by: mulehunter on June 26, 2013, 01:26:30 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 26, 2013, 01:32:10 PM
Post by: bearpaw on June 26, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
All 6 of those pictures are wolves :dunno: The characteristics of a wolf are unmistakable :tup: just look at the hips - back and the head ...No coyotes here :twocents:
Yes all 6 photos posted by mule hunter look like wolves. We were commenting on the photos posted by Village Idiot, tough to tell on 4 of those photos, but 2 are definitely not coyote, they look like wolf.