Post by: kglacken on May 29, 2013, 08:57:20 PM
Post by: Dutchie on May 29, 2013, 09:42:24 PM
Post by: elk247 on May 29, 2013, 10:07:09 PM
Post by: Alan K on May 29, 2013, 10:27:27 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 07:16:39 AM
1. weather
2. competition
3. location
Ive had bulls bugle in some areas in and not others depending on these 3 variables... 1. weather: too hot tend to stay quiet... 2. Competition: Lack of this less likely to bugle... 3. Location: If they are by houses or see people quite often less likely to bugle... In the long run they will probably come in quiet so dont call to much i recommend a few cow calls every 15 to 30 minutes
Post by: JPhelps on May 30, 2013, 07:44:59 AM
Bugling or Cow calling? I use three elk calls 90% of the time while in the woods. Location bugle, pleading cow/estrus whines and challenge bugle. I locate from ridge tops primarily calling into every new finger or basin. Once a bull is located I move in silent (if possible) set up as close as I can (within 100 yds preferred) and estrus whine and follow it with a challenge bugle.
Locate and then move in? Yes locate through glassing or bugling then move in for the setup.
What calls work best? The one(s) that YOU are most confident and comfortable with. Not all calls will sound or work the same for everyone.
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 07:52:53 AM
What diaphragm? The one that you are most confident with. Everyone has a different pallete size and applies tongue pressure different, so the only way to tell is buy a few different styles and test them out. A few calls that would give you a good idea on what you like and to see what works for you would be; bugling bull "raging bull", bugling bull "all star" and my "elk commander".do u make ur own diaphragm?
Bugling or Cow calling? I use three elk calls 90% of the time while in the woods. Location bugle, pleading cow/estrus whines and challenge bugle. I locate from ridge tops primarily calling into every new finger or basin. Once a bull is located I move in silent (if possible) set up as close as I can (within 100 yds preferred) and estrus whine and follow it with a challenge bugle.
Locate and then move in? Yes locate through glassing or bugling then move in for the setup.
What calls work best? The one(s) that YOU are most confident and comfortable with. Not all calls will sound or work the same for everyone.
Post by: JPhelps on May 30, 2013, 08:07:26 AM
Pm sentWhat diaphragm? The one that you are most confident with. Everyone has a different pallete size and applies tongue pressure different, so the only way to tell is buy a few different styles and test them out. A few calls that would give you a good idea on what you like and to see what works for you would be; bugling bull "raging bull", bugling bull "all star" and my "elk commander".do u make ur own diaphragm?
Bugling or Cow calling? I use three elk calls 90% of the time while in the woods. Location bugle, pleading cow/estrus whines and challenge bugle. I locate from ridge tops primarily calling into every new finger or basin. Once a bull is located I move in silent (if possible) set up as close as I can (within 100 yds preferred) and estrus whine and follow it with a challenge bugle.
Locate and then move in? Yes locate through glassing or bugling then move in for the setup.
What calls work best? The one(s) that YOU are most confident and comfortable with. Not all calls will sound or work the same for everyone.
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 10:42:14 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 10:45:38 AM
The best way to learn is by going out and playing with them.... (after your season or before)bad idea
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 10:51:32 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 11:03:02 AM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 11:05:36 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 11:26:00 AM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 11:38:21 AM
I'm just saying. You are right its probably good practice but I recommend learning during the season.
Yes i see where u coming from but say ur hunting muzzloader go out in that cap between archery and muzzy and practice/scout... so ur not going in blind...
Post by: sirmissalot on May 30, 2013, 11:41:26 AM
The best way to learn is by going out and playing with them.... (after your season or before)
"Practice" on the animals you will be hunting and work on getting them call shy.
Or better yet practice on elk someone else will be hunting while you leave yours be... Just screw the other hunters.
I'm with D rock... I get enough "practice" during season.
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 11:48:14 AM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
Im not saying call them in all the way and scare them off... Just go out and see what calls they respond to... And the guy who posted this thread is trying to figure out what calls work the best... Its not like ur going to locate and try to put a stalk on and get as close as u can when ur not actually hunting.. thats not what i mean at all..The best way to learn is by going out and playing with them.... (after your season or before)
"Practice" on the animals you will be hunting and work on getting them call shy.
Or better yet practice on elk someone else will be hunting while you leave yours be... Just screw the other hunters.
I'm with D rock... I get enough "practice" during season.
Post by: sirmissalot on May 30, 2013, 12:06:14 PM
Im not saying call them in all the way and scare them off... Just go out and see what calls they respond to...The best way to learn is by going out and playing with them.... (after your season or before)
"Practice" on the animals you will be hunting and work on getting them call shy.
Or better yet practice on elk someone else will be hunting while you leave yours be... Just screw the other hunters.
I'm with D rock... I get enough "practice" during season.
:salute:
Post by: bucklucky on May 30, 2013, 01:26:46 PM
The more experiance you get in the woods during hunting season, the more it will click. Trial and error is one of the best ways to learn but getting having a "Cheat Sheet" will help you figure it out quicker . Jason Phelps (Phelps Game calls) has some real good info . Might want to look into Elknut's calling dvd's and cd's . Lots of good info . Its all the same calling for Roosies and rockies, just need to put it together and be able to understand what you need to say , or not say as a caller. So many variables. I have had Roosies come screaming , I have had rockies come screaming, Ive had both come in silent. Elk are elk .
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 01:30:40 PM
:yeah:
The more experiance you get in the woods during hunting season, the more it will click.
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 01:35:23 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 30, 2013, 01:38:58 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2013, 01:41:43 PM
Post by: Elkpiss on May 30, 2013, 02:45:48 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 02:47:38 PM
I seen this dude once on a motorcycle in the area i hunt, he had a electronic call box with a elk calling CD in it.. He said that worked good for him, you should try it... :twocents:.. He was russian, I was kinda in shock when i seen that call box :o then he said "if he dies he dies" and i thought i was staring right at Ivan Draggo out of Rocky... :yike:Which guy lol
Post by: Elkpiss on May 30, 2013, 02:52:21 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 30, 2013, 02:54:27 PM
Post by: bucklucky on May 30, 2013, 03:46:13 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 30, 2013, 10:33:01 PM
Draggo LOL!!!R u serious D-Rock? lol
Post by: bucklucky on May 31, 2013, 12:07:41 AM
I think thats what Draggo said to Stallone ;)
Post by: RadSav on May 31, 2013, 05:01:08 AM
Don't forget - even if you have been speaking English since birth, when pulled over by the game warden because your drunken bugle fest has taken you into a closed area, you don't speak any English and don't understand a word the LEO is saying. This works well when you are snagging salmon out of the fish ladder at the Lewis River hatchery too :tup:
Post by: gotcha on May 31, 2013, 05:31:05 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 07:33:13 AM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 07:35:27 AM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 12:28:31 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 12:42:05 PM
I have called bulls into close range 10 feet on the hottest day of the season last year. I have also called bulls in next to farms with dogs barking down the draw. I have also called bulls in with hoards of guys in the area none of wich even had a bugle. I think that shows how much billy boy knows. All of these instances were all last year after I spoke with Jason Phelps and developed a stratige for bugling. You cant just blow your tube on the hottest day in the most pressured area and get a respons. You have to pose a threat to the bull in the right situation and position yourself to intercept. I had the herd 6 x all peed off but only the satalite would commit last year. It doesnt sound like you care if you shoot a satalite I know I would love to put the smack down on a four point. Before last year i never even got a bugle back so i never used it much. little did i know what i was missing. Locate get inside 70 yard and pick a fight is what worked best good luck this year.Did i say anything about calling them in.. I said those three variables have to do with how much they bugle.... get it straight shows how well u can read..
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 12:57:27 PM
All three of your variables are wrong. They do have some affect (so does calling preseason to "learn" :chuckle: ) very little if you can change gears and develop differnt techniqes to the indavidual situation as it arises. "How much they bugle" is going to determine if they are workable or can be "called in" smart guy. Yeah they can come in silent but the timber will be breaking so unless you just wanna hear them scream. And even when they creep in its usally after a pissing match with the caller.Completely wrong.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind... And lots of bulls come in quiet thats why i said get in a tree stand or blind and cow call every 15-30minutes...
Its pretty funny how a lot of people agree with those variables...
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 01:02:57 PM
And ur buddy phelps even said one of his biggest variables is competition.... :dunno:Hunters misinterpret the rut.. The rut happens the same time, the weather factor ur talking about has to do with how vocal they are during the rut, not if they are in it or not... And if there isnt a lot of competition between bulls (due to the lack in numbers) then you wont hear to many bugles.
Heres a list of what i believe to be the biggest the factors if the bulls are bugling or not... 1 being the greatest.
1. weather
2. competition
3. surroundings/location
Oh my goodness :yike:
I agree with Billdo :chuckle:
Post by: sirmissalot on May 31, 2013, 01:09:59 PM
.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind...
That would be called... preseason then
Before your season=preseason
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 01:10:05 PM
Post by: mrmoskillz on May 31, 2013, 01:15:04 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 01:15:46 PM
Presason in my eyes is before any season has happened.... Because if u get multi season then u have 3 different preseasons and that doesnt work lol :dunno:
.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind...
That would be called... preseason then
Before your season=preseason
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 01:26:14 PM
.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind...
That would be called... preseason then
Before your season=preseason
:yeah: :chuckle:
I did say they have some affect but if the competition isn't bugling.... then its substantially less . Jason just articulates his words better than some of us..... isn't as argumentative and has respect for others on the forum... So some may be more apt to listen rather than discredit him.
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 01:30:53 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 01:35:07 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 01:37:13 PM
Well I've found the complete opposite. :tung: :chuckle::mgun: :stirthepot:
D-Rock werent u the guy driving around on the dirt bike with ur electronic call :chuckle:
(do u have any idea what that guy was talking about)
Post by: tickle on May 31, 2013, 01:49:37 PM
That's what I thought. But what do I know. :dunno:
.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind...
That would be called... preseason then
Before your season=preseason
Of course it does. How convenient. :chuckle:Presason in my eyes is before any season has happened.... Because if u get multi season then u have 3 different preseasons and that doesnt work lol :dunno:
.. first i never said preseason.. I said if u hunt muzzloader i recommend going out after archery gets over and do some calling just to see what they repond to so when it comes around to muzzloader season u are not going in blind...
That would be called... preseason then
Before your season=preseason
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 01:53:05 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 01:58:18 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:04:28 PM
No better billy boy. Pre season to a multi tag would be august.Same as an archery hunter....
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:05:46 PM
Go out during the rut(yes that includes pre-rut as well) to practice... this means right before the season u choose to huntsaid that right here...
Post by: sirmissalot on May 31, 2013, 02:08:00 PM
I don't need to scout I'm that good.
Exactly.
PLUS we are getting expert advice from the master guide Billy so who needs to waste time scouting.
I think I will do my preseason practicing in the Orting area. Near the river. Where there are lots of bulls to create competition and therefore lots of bugling.
Post by: JPhelps on May 31, 2013, 02:08:35 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:08:56 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 31, 2013, 02:11:46 PM
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:17:02 PM
Billdo- I'll bet half of your posts are just a avatar. Half the time they don't even make sense. :chuckle:
:dunno:
fill me in Johnn Bravo :tup:
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 02:17:17 PM
I'm sharpening my crayons for this response...
billy boy can only understand crayola. Its an age thing.
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:18:07 PM
Hey now Crayola gets the job done thats what counts...I'm sharpening my crayons for this response...
billy boy can only understand crayola. Its an age thing.
Post by: iRem on May 31, 2013, 02:20:33 PM
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 02:21:31 PM
Hey now Crayola gets the job done thats what counts...I'm sharpening my crayons for this response...
billy boy can only understand crayola. Its an age thing.
What are you doing with your crayons billy!?!?!?! I thought your kindergarten teachers taught you better than that.
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:24:28 PM
Hey Billy the Kid, Every post that I have read are argumentative! I understand you have your opinion and we all have our opinions, but dude learn to tone it down and stop being so argumentative.Im not the one :stirthepot:
they seem to be enjoying themselves... If you noticed the same 4 guys comment on whatever i say, just to get the pot stirring... (D-rock, Sirmissalot, Johnny Bravo, and DIYARHCERYJUNKIE)
Post by: turkeyfeather on May 31, 2013, 02:31:38 PM
Not stirring the pot at all Billy. I just happen to think your posts are funny. Did you not see the chuckle face. I'll get my crayon and color it in better next time. :sry:Hey Billy the Kid, Every post that I have read are argumentative! I understand you have your opinion and we all have our opinions, but dude learn to tone it down and stop being so argumentative.Im not the one :stirthepot:
they seem to be enjoying themselves... If you noticed the same 4 guys comment on whatever i say, just to get the pot stirring... (D-rock, Sirmissalot, Johnny Bravo, and DIYARHCERYJUNKIE)
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 02:36:39 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 31, 2013, 02:39:37 PM
Hey Billy the Kid, Every post that I have read are argumentative! I understand you have your opinion and we all have our opinions, but dude learn to tone it down and stop being so argumentative.I liked it better when it started hey censored. It was like a fill in the blank type thing.
Post by: DIYARCHERYJUNKIE on May 31, 2013, 02:40:12 PM
Post by: JPhelps on May 31, 2013, 02:41:06 PM
Nobody has all the answers and not everything will work all the time. I can only draw from my experience from the past 15 years and do my best to explain what I have found to work. Even then my tactics don't work ALL the time (heck I would be happy as a clam if I could bat .500).
MY OPINION: Don't call elk in anytime you don't plan on killing them. Or if you insist go to Mt Rainier or somewhere completely off limits to hunt.
Competition: There are two types. Competition from other hunters and competition from other bulls. In my experience you want as much competition from other bulls as possible and as little from other hunters (doesn't happen very often). My goal is to find unpressured elk. I want my calls to be the first they have heard all year long. You can find unpressured elk 500 yards from the road or 20 miles deep.
Bugling Bulls: They bugle when they want to. Whether that is at a locator, on their own, etc... There are some factors that effect how much they bugle but we have hashed that out enough over the past few weeks.
I personally don't want to hunt bulls that aren't bugling (unless, i don't have any other options or it's a monster). My goal is to get a bull fired up and in my lap. So I usually continue on until I can find a bull willing to play the game.
What calls to use: Use what works for you. My strategy involves bugling and cow calling. Heavy on the challenge bugle once in tight. I see guys get on here all the time saying "they only cow call", that is great and if it works for them who am I to tell them they are wrong. They most likely have evidence to show cow calling only, does work. I only have a problem with people telling others one calling strategy is ALL the works. I laugh when people say that bugling won't work because I have the past 15 years to prove them different. [Heck if someone who has killed good bulls for the past 10 years told me they only hunted in a leopard print speedo, I may wait until I'm in the timber a ways but you better believe I would look like tarzan :dunno:].
Here are some videos of how often and frequent I bugle (there are some edits so I most likely bugled and called even more). the last video was muzzleloader season and I just cow chirped them in.
Primetime Outdoors - Gettin After It: Season 2 - Archery Elk Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2ZtU2GYE4#ws)
Primetime Outdoors - Gettin After It: Season 2 - Archery Elk Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLC6EhaXLyM#ws)
Primetime Outdoors - Episode 6 Part 2 - W. Washington Roosevelt Elk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC155ZOVarw#ws)
Post by: billdo5 on May 31, 2013, 02:57:28 PM
It might have to do with 90% of what you say is BS, Argumentitive, disrespectful and lies. The other 10% is you backtracking on statments that get pointed out as the BS they are and even then you just sound silly.
Look at way phelps said... He talked about 2 of my variables... Competition and location... I mean the same thing when I say competition between bulls and location which I have explained time and time again means to me how pressured they get by people including hunters... So maybe not 90% BS :chuckle:
Post by: Austrian Hunter on May 31, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
Our local Ruskie technique = jump in your big arse white diesel Super Duty and drive 5 mph towards the most elevated and exposed point in the country. Be sure to throw apples out the window every 100 yards or so. Once you reach the point don't bother turning off the engine just get out and start to call aggressively. That usually means three guys calling simultaneously none stop for a minimum of 30 minutes. Be sure the three of you stagger your breaths as to avoid one single moment of silence. Once you see what direction all the elk in that part of the country are running towards drive around to that other side of the valley now at 50 mph (don't forget to keep throwing them apples out the window every 100 yards!) find another high point at this new elk destination and repeat until the end of the season or until you run out of vodka. This technique must be quite effective as I see the same three guys every year doing the exact same thing.
Don't forget - even if you have been speaking English since birth, when pulled over by the game warden because your drunken bugle fest has taken you into a closed area, you don't speak any English and don't understand a word the LEO is saying. This works well when you are snagging salmon out of the fish ladder at the Lewis River hatchery too :tup:
OMG, this is some funny stuff right there!!!! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: JPhelps on June 01, 2013, 08:07:57 AM
Post by: Broken Arrow on June 03, 2013, 11:17:04 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 03, 2013, 01:53:54 PM
I have killed numerous Rosies, but will refrain to Billdo, he is awesome!:yike:
Post by: billdo5 on June 03, 2013, 02:02:55 PM
I have killed numerous Rosies, but will refrain to Billdo, he is awesome!:tup: