Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: SilkWWU on October 13, 2008, 11:29:55 AM
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I shot a box of black cloud 3.5 inch 2 shot on Saturday and that stuff really is more powerful! Instantly noticed that it was hitting ducks harder. I give it 2 thumbs up!
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bout like hunting deer with a semi-truck. :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I shot 3 ducks with it today, 3 1/2" number 4's. I noticed that when I hit the birds they went down hard with no cripples. I dont know if I was just "on" today or not, but I will try the rest of the box before I really praise them. So far though, 1 1/2 thumbs up... :twocents:
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After cleaning the ducks I shot this morning, I am even more impressed with these shells...I found two of the "flight stopper" pellets and they are pretty impressive looking. I know I sure wouldnt want to get shot with them...
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I won't shoot ducks with anything else...ever. Amazing. They just keep dying.
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kent fast steel for me, but I do want to try a box before the season's over.
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i shot a mallard flying away about 15-17 yards away once and they wend all the way through him
dunno if you guys saw this yet but i did some personal black cloud research.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,2822.msg27721.html#msg27721
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Going to use it this weekend for snows. I hope it is half as good as they say it is. It will surely be put to the test hunting off the dykes on Fir Island. Wasn't lucky enough to get a permit. I'm hoping they haven't been skybusted yet and are still within range.
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kent fast steel for me, but I do want to try a box before the season's over.
I'm surprised you like Kent. Everyone I know that has used Kent hates it and will never use it again. I tried it once and I thought it was a despicable ammunition lol. Federal and Winchester is where it's at!
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i always found kent to shoot pretty nice. patterned well out of my nova
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If Kent ever found a way to "wet-proof" their shells I'd shoot them again out of my 12. I bought a bunch of their 20ga steel for my boy to shoot. Just can't stand havig shells in my pockets get a little wet and then get misfires.
I only shoot Estate loads and have for the past 4 or 5 years. They're cheap and they work well for me.
I'm not sure I see the need for 3-1/2" 2's in the Black Cloud for shooting teal... But hey, if killing them is more important t you than eating them, it's all you!
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I'm not sure I see the need for 3-1/2" 2's in the Black Cloud for shooting teal... But hey, if killing them is more important t you than eating them, it's all you!
hahaha I was thinking the same thing, just buying into the hype is all, I don't see a need to ever use 2 shot much less 3 1/2 in while hunting ducks.
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You guys shooting black cloud - did you need to worry about your choke not working well. I went over to Patternmaster.com and they are recommending a special choke for black cloud. Seeing how it is cheaper than the other chokes it sounds like it could be more than a marketing gimmick. Looking to try out some of this stuff.
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I haven't had a problem with the kent's yet....but I use "yet" loosely only been hunting with them since the opener this year.
I bout a box of the FS steel, gonna be shooting it Saturday morning with my 870 with a modified choke. I'll give a report.
But then again, I could use grenades and not hit anything...the FS won't matter if I don't hit anything :bash:
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I've been shooting Kent for a few years and never had any misfires due to ammo. I have yet to buy Black Cloud but maybe next year. Heard nothing but good things about it.
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You guys shooting black cloud - did you need to worry about your choke not working well. I went over to Patternmaster.com and they are recommending a special choke for black cloud. Seeing how it is cheaper than the other chokes it sounds like it could be more than a marketing gimmick. Looking to try out some of this stuff.
yeah specifically the patternmaster chokes have problems with them because of the flight control wad. the wad has little wings on it while the pattern master is trying to grab the wad they kinda counteract eachother.
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ive never had problems with kents stuff but i despise estate, for some reason my 870 just wont cycle em, im a big fan of winchester Xpert 3" #2's for ducks and 3 1/2" for geese
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It seems to me that a few of the major choke mfgrs are suggesting a different choke tube specifically for the black cloud ammo and it does not seem to be just Patternmaster.
I'll pick one up from whomever over the next few weeks if necessary but I was mostly wondering if it really is necessary to use a special choke for the Black Cloud....
I ready on another forum that the brand is not the issue but instead that if choke tube that has ports or wad striping knobs would be a problem..
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Went down to Joes. The price of black cloud is double. I will stick to plain old steel. I am a cheapskate. I'll just shoot twice if I miss. It will probably be cheaper that way.
Having said that. The amazing thing about Black Cloud is the price is so high.
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The amazing thing about Black Cloud is the price is so high.
No, the amazing thing is how many hunters are falling for the hype. Oh how I wish people would just learn how to hunt ducks instead of trying to find some kind of "snake oil" so they can kill them on a 50 yard swing shot...
Black cloud is just the new Dead Coyote load. :bash:
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Well if someone says it's all that I am not against trying it. Except when the price is double. I wasn't expecting any 50 yard swing shots... I suppose that I wasn't looking at it from any different perspective than to just try another style of ammo. I pretty much stick with granola federal speed shot. It works good for me.
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No, the amazing thing is how many hunters are falling for the hype. Oh how I wish people would just learn how to hunt ducks instead of trying to find some kind of "snake oil" so they can kill them on a 50 yard swing shot...
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Just because you try a different type of ammo doesnt mean you dont know how to hunt ducks. I have been hunting, and killing ducks since I was 10. That is 22 years now. Black cloud is only 25 bucks a box, compared to major brands, that is a good deal, and your always going to do better when you have confidence in your gear.
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If you can't kill ducks with good ol steel shot, then you aren't getting them close enough. Oh well, spend your $1 per shell. I think I killed my last limit with some 2-3/4 steel 6's and 4's that I paid $5.97 a box for. Amazing what happens when you let them finish.... If you really need Black Cloud, Hevi-shot or any other "premium" load to kill birds, try spending that extra money on a range finder and figuring out why you can't kill birds with steel. My guess is it has to do with not knowing your effective range.
If I hunted private ground and didn't have to deal with idiots in every blind around me, i wouldn't give two *censored*s what you guys use. But when I get my hunt screwed up by guys that spend the extra money to buy a "miracle" shell I get sick of it. One of the worst things that happened to duck hunting was the development of 3-1/2" 12 ga ammo...
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I like 4 or 6 shot on ducks and 2 on geese. As far as everything else goes... to each his own.
I understand the crowding issues but I am not going to start talking to people on here like they are the problem without actually seeing them out hunting and then I probably would still hold on that unless they shot me or somethng. I don't subscribe to the thought that just because someone uses a different ammo they are the problem with waterfowl hunting. Having said that I use granola federal ammo and a 3" shotgun. People have been killing ducks and geese with that sort of setup for a long time.
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hey Ray can you fill me in on what granola ammo is? I like those federal shells too, seem to kill the birds pretty good. i was going to try black cloud this season, but i didnt know they were 25 per box...maybe ill rethink that
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it's just a term for cheap federal ammo. I usually buy the lowest cost on the shelf at the local store which is federal brand and this is usually it in 3 inch... It's cheaper in 2 3/4 inch.. http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=73286
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I don't know why there is hostility over this new ammo, really at $25.00 a box versus $19.00 for Kent, it's not that big of a difference. Plus, shooting 3.5 inch shells, why wouldn't you shoot them if you had them available? Are you such an elitist duck hunter that your only shots are 15 yards from the blind. If you are that good of a caller where you and your partner can shoot your limits then that's fine. But on public land where the birds are hearing multiple blind/decoy setups, sometimes all you can home for is some passing shots, and the extra firepower is nice.
I'm far from an expert duck hunter, but I am telling you there is night and day difference with Black Cloud.
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I don't use kent. I simply can't justify the prices myself. Steel works fine for me
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i like kents, got some for 11 a box earlier today actually. i thought that was around the standard going rate? looks like i should actually go and pickup more of it if its 19 bucks now !!! :yike:
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Black cloud seems spendy,
although i should try one box to see if it's all it claims.
My last hunt, i smoked a limit with handloaded 1oz of #4's
at 1650fps in a 2 3/4",early season worked great.
But i do shoot some 3.5"'ers as well, i get bored easily shootin the same ammo all the time,i'm usually shooting something different every time i go.I only shoot high density (non steel) loads for the occasional pass shot on greater canadas, and that's only if i have time to switch out ammo, nuthin but steel for ducks.
P.S.
If you have to get all your birds to finish within 25yds, it doesn't mean your a great duck hunter, it means your a crappy shot. :chuckle:
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Black cloud seems spendy,
although i should try one box to see if it's all it claims.
My last hunt, i smoked a limit with handloaded 1oz of #4's
at 1650fps in a 2 3/4",early season worked great.
But i do shoot some 3.5"'ers as well, i get bored easily shootin the same ammo all the time,i'm usually shooting something different every time i go.I only shoot high density (non steel) loads for the occasional pass shot on greater canadas, and that's only if i have time to switch out ammo, nuthin but steel for ducks.
P.S.
If you have to get all your birds to finish within 25yds, it doesn't mean your a great duck hunter, it means your a crappy shot. :chuckle:
Thanks for the Chuckle.
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wow. your getting raped if your paying $19 a box for kent. $10-$12 normal
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Ray
ShadowCat and Snowman are shooting the Black Cloud 3 1/2" #2's for Canadians and Snows. I wanna say they shot them all season last year. Thats probably what I will be using this year. For ducks we were using Kent Fast Steel 3" #4's. I can't remeber what choke tube I am using right off the top of my head I can tell you I am not using the one specificly for the Black Clouds. They didn't either. :)
Ray I would run over to ShadowCats and talk to him about those Black Clouds.
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If you have to get all your birds to finish within 25yds, it doesn't mean your a great duck hunter, it means your a crappy shot. :chuckle:
Quite possibly the most retarded statement I've ever heard...
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got one mallard today, stoned her at 25 yards with black cloud, dead before she hit the water. I'm a fan.
then I hit a passing teal at 40 yards with the kent, he hit the water and swam away before I could get in the boat and out to him.
I just can't spend the 22 bucks a box at sportsmans warehouse. I get my kents 11 bucks for a box.
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I have heard lots of good things about black cloud, no doubt. I think other shells will kill ducks too. Im not against black cloud in any way, might even try a box in the near future.
I think that one of the biggest factors in shooting is your confidence. Whether it be with your load or your gun. If you feel more comfortable with black cloud, then by all means shoot them. Once you get it in your head that a load is going to make you shoot better and kill ducks better, it usually does!
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i use 6 shot lead pheasant loads for ducks...lol jk 3in 2 shot works good...if you hit them ;)
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I don't have any experiance with black cloud but I shot a pheasant this weekend with heavy shot 6# 2 3/4 and the bird was DOA :dunno:
I really like the heavy shot :twocents:
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I started using the Black Cloud 3 1/2" 12g Last year and will NEVER go back to anything else. Most successful season for me ever and this year is heading in the same direction. Birds that used to be "out of range" are going down now :)
I use various shot sizes with the, depending on weather conditions as well as a few other variables. BB Seems to work the best for me overall but I've done ok with the BBB and T also. I purchase the Black Clouds by the case at Cabela's in Post Falls, ID. There is a discount for a case price (not sure what it is priced at) and individual boxes are $21.99 there.
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Birds that used to be "out of range" are going down now :)
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Just a hint, THEY ARE STILL OUT OF RANGE!!!
God I hope you people are out jump shooting or boating into the Dunes at the Potholes... Learn how to actually hunt and bring birds close to you instead of buying a crutch that allows you to skybust an occasional bird out of the sky.
It's called a duck call, buy one, learn how to use it and you'll be amazed at how much money you save when you start getting birds inside of 50 yards!!!!
I don't care about the next person that calls me an "elitist", I'll take that as a compliment. I'm so sick of spending time with my son in a blind only to have Internet Willie set up downwind of me and pop shots at birds on the swing.
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+1 :yeah: I think you hit the nail square on the head with that post General. 7 trips, 7 limits and we haven't even broke out the Fast-steel yet. The area I hunt was the first non-toxic area in the state back in the mid-80's and you know how the steel shot loads were then. I cleaned out Yeagers of over 300# of those NTC reload kits and reloaded 2 3/4" 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. 2's, 3's, and 4's at 1300 fps. That's over 3000 rounds in about a 5 year period. Shot them out of a 26" barrelled, imp.cyl. choked Winchester 59 and didn't have much problem knocking birds down. You would think with that kind of REAL field EXPERIENCE I might have a little bit of an idea of what it takes to knock a duck out of the sky. These experts go and kill ONE bird (at 15 yards) or shoot ONE box of the stuff (3 1/2" 2's and kill 5 teal) and they think they have it all figured out. Between a trip N. of the border, early goose, and the 7 hunts so far, I'm just finishing up my 2nd case of shells and these guys are on their 2nd BOX!! I guess you can some the whole situation up with the motto of the new generation: Go big, or go home. :chuckle:
p.s. And I did try a box of the AMAZING Black Cloud on geese ( got a box on year end close -out last season for $14.99) and truthfully was not impressed. But that was only one box, maybe 8-10 specs and snows, so I will reserve judgement on the stuff until I can find some more on the cheap and maybe get enough to kill maybe a hundred or so to make a more educated assessment of the product.
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Birds that used to be "out of range" are going down now :)
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Just a hint, THEY ARE STILL OUT OF RANGE!!!
God I hope you people are out jump shooting or boating into the Dunes at the Potholes... Learn how to actually hunt and bring birds close to you instead of buying a crutch that allows you to skybust an occasional bird out of the sky.
It's called a duck call, buy one, learn how to use it and you'll be amazed at how much money you save when you start getting birds inside of 50 yards!!!!
I don't give 2 *censored*s about the next person that calls me an "elitist", I'll take that as a compliment. I'm so sick of spending time with my son in a blind only to have Internet Willie set up downwind of me and pop shots at birds on the swing.
word Cotton
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If they are going down they aren't out of range. Nice to see everyone talking *censored* though...
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Birds that used to be "out of range" are going down now :)
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Just a hint, THEY ARE STILL OUT OF RANGE!!!
God I hope you people are out jump shooting or boating into the Dunes at the Potholes... Learn how to actually hunt and bring birds close to you instead of buying a crutch that allows you to skybust an occasional bird out of the sky.
It's called a duck call, buy one, learn how to use it and you'll be amazed at how much money you save when you start getting birds inside of 50 yards!!!!
I don't give 2 *censored*s about the next person that calls me an "elitist", I'll take that as a compliment. I'm so sick of spending time with my son in a blind only to have Internet Willie set up downwind of me and pop shots at birds on the swing.
Nope. IF I am knocking them down, they are NOT out of range. That comment was aimed at a shotgun I used previously (Shooting 2 3/4-3") without Black Clouds, versus the new shotgun I use now shooting 3 1/2" Black Clouds. You are an ___ since you know nothing about me yet call me "Internet Willie" :rolleyes: When in the past I could hear the shot bouncing off geese occasionally at 40-50 yards, now they are going down with the Black Clouds. Skybusting? I think not. I am probably one of the most respectful hunters out on the water and stay well away and clear of other hunters that are setup. That is how I hunt, and also teach my 4 teenage sons and my wife to hunt....And they do go out with me EVERY TIME I go. So, if you are "sick and tired" of taking your son somewhere that you don't get enjoyment from, then simply DON'T GO.
As for the Duck Call, you are WAAAYYY off! I've been hunting waterfowl for 40 years, have came in 2nd Place and 6th place in 2 State Championships for Duck Calling, and am pretty fair with a Goose call too!
Eliteist you call yourself? No.....
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Oh yeah, furthermore....We went out to Eloika Lake this morning for 2 hours. Left the Lake at 930 am with 3 geese and 4 Ducks Total. Myself, My Wife, and 3 of my sons. And to stay on topic, my Black Clouds took out one of those Geese at approximately 55 yards...Folded and dropped it within 10 ft of the boat. It's not out of range if you're dropping them.
Started out using some Kent Shells, first shot was a misfire, next go around I had a Jamb, then I said screw it and went to the Black Clouds....No more problems and I dropped everything I shot at. Gave all of the non Black Clouds that I had to my son that shoots an Over/Under.
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if you have to shoot geese at 55yards i am not that impressed with your calling. :P And thats a hell of a hunt for 5 people? man i wish i could place second and sixth in state to go out and have a 7 bird morning for 5 guns. :drool:
you guys have the same attitude that the idiots that sky bust dykes on the west side or hunt the Stratford firing line... if i can touch it, its in range. Get lucky once at 75 yards and now thats in range too... :bash:
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I finished second in a Tennis tournament when i was 10, you don't see me out bragging that I could beat Federer...
You keep on shooting at geese at "55" yards, I'll keep calling you a skybuster... At least this way my son can see what NOT to do!!!
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For me I prefer the "good stuff" hevi-shot or black cloud.
For the simple reason that birds fold up better for me when I use it compared to the kents. We decoy and call and only shoot birds cupping into our set, but I still prefer the black clouds just because i've shot ducks at the same distance and working the dekes the same speed and the black cloud puts them down and dead.
My experience with the kent fast steels have been mostly wing shots and the birds are stunned then start swimming so I need to put another shell in them on the water. I'd rather go the 20 bucks for 25 and use one shell then 10 bucks a box and use two.
I think it's more about each persons hunting style if you're slaying them with kents/win-experts/estates, keep on keepin on.
As long as people are getting ducks in the boat and not messing with birds setting to my decoys, all the power to ya.
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Wow...you all are rough in here. I like green salsa and he likes red, guess what it's all salsa just a different color. so a guy say's he likes black cloud, ok, I wish I could afford 25$ a box ammo too, prob shoots great. don't knock a guy for his opinion that's what this forum is for. you should try to be openminded without taking things personal. I enjoy reading in this forum but I don't like the personal grudges.
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I like green salsa and he likes red, guess what it's all salsa just a different color.
Yeah but what if using red salsa makes you believe you have super powers?!?!? :yike:
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I like green salsa and he likes red, guess what it's all salsa just a different color.
Yeah but what if using red salsa makes you believe you have super powers?!?!? :yike:
hahahahahahahah
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Alright guys, obviously a difference of opinion here and thats okay, lets try to eliminate the personal comments and agree to disagree. The forum is for discussion of course and not everyone will have the same opinions but there is no need for the personal attacks, thanks.
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So a guy say's he likes black cloud, ok, I wish I could afford 25$ a box ammo too, prob shoots great.
That's why i've went to loading a black cloud 3" 4's in the chamber followed by two kents :IBCOOL:
Best of both worlds, confidence at a third of the price.
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Alright guys, obviously a difference of opinion here and thats okay, lets try to eliminate the personal comments and agree to disagree. The forum is for discussion of course and not everyone will have the same opinions but there is no need for the personal attacks, thanks.
good gosh..where are the personal attacks? this is a great conversation and eye opening as to what people think they can do with the special sauce shells..Hopefully more folks will learn just how excatly not to do it..
Keep, keeping em straight PC and GD
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good gosh..where are the personal attacks?
Well Skyhigh, if you cant see them that means I have done my job!!!Actually there is no need to get this going again, I would thank you to not stir the pot ;)
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There's definitely some good points made by General Disarray and Professor Choss. I find it very difficult to hunt snow geese except when I can get access to private land because when I am on public land people shoot at them as soon as they close to within 75 yards. I don't even waste my money or shells at that range and those folks ruin it for their fellow hunters nearby. Not to mention they don't even wait until more than one bird is within their 75 yard range. I would prefer to gain access to some private land plots where friends and I can wait until they close the distance and tag more birds. There is a fine line to getting your point across and being an antagonizer. I often play both :chuckle: At any rate I am sympathetic to GD and PC's points of view on this topic. I don't believe the ammo is the key as much as it is patience, persistence, luck and sound tactics.