Post by: RifleRidge on June 29, 2013, 06:26:57 PM
Any suggestions, ideas, comments or good Attorneys that will fight cases like this?
Post by: wariner87 on June 29, 2013, 06:36:15 PM
Post by: Gobble Doc on June 29, 2013, 07:09:16 PM
Post by: JLS on June 29, 2013, 07:18:16 PM
If you were convicted of a felony as a juvenile, then the court can seal the records and expunge it from your criminal history.
Post by: RifleRidge on June 29, 2013, 07:39:45 PM
Post by: JLS on June 29, 2013, 07:45:56 PM
Misdemeanor Crime of Domestic Violence back in 1996... No felony charges up until now or if he is proven quality
DV assault is same as felony in regards to the process.
Post by: RifleRidge on June 29, 2013, 07:49:52 PM
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 29, 2013, 07:54:10 PM
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/misdemeanor-domestic-violence.html (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/misdemeanor-domestic-violence.html)
Any Court expungment must specifically return the firearm rights to the individual. I can see now haw somebody could run afoul of the law here.
Your friend needs to read carefully that this does in fact apply to him
Quote
was committed by a current or former spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim, by a person with whom the victim shares a child in common, by a person who is cohabiting with or has cohabited with the victim as a spouse, parent, or guardian, or by a person similarly situated to a spouse, parent, or guardian of the victim.
Post by: HntnFsh on June 29, 2013, 08:09:56 PM
Here is how it was explained to him. This is a catch 22 situation. You can do a restoration of rights. Which will allow you to possesss firearms again. It can be pretty cheap and simple. Have an atty. draw up the paperwork and submit it. Your probably good to go. Especially if the clerks in the agency do a good job of removing it from your records.
The crazy part is that this is not the same as having your rights restored on a federal level. Thats way harder to do.And way more involved. Technically if a federal agent runs a check on him and finds the previous charges, he could be charged with a felony. He might be OK in that situation if he has a copy of his restoration of rights and the federal officer is having a good day. Or he might be facing charges if that officer is having a bad day.
The person I know has gone through several NICS checks since, and all but the first 1 cleared no problem. He was denied on the first one and thats what got it all started. The thing is,when he got denied it started about a 6 month process of finding out why he was denied. And what to do. When you are denied on a NICS check. They just tell you the reporting agency. You have to contact them. Find out what is on your record that would be cause for denial. Submit it to NICS and follow their procedures. It wasnt difficult. But it was time consuming.
Post by: HntnFsh on June 29, 2013, 08:14:22 PM
Post by: stevemiller on June 29, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
Post by: mountainman on June 29, 2013, 09:51:37 PM
Post by: Mike450r on June 29, 2013, 10:03:42 PM
Can't get rights restored with a pending illegal possession charge. Kinda like putting on a condom in the delivery room. I understand him believing he still had his rights but that doesn't matter.
Post by: stevemiller on June 29, 2013, 10:09:01 PM
Post by: stevemiller on June 29, 2013, 10:10:24 PM
Post by: Mike450r on June 29, 2013, 10:14:38 PM
but this all must be done before you posess or elsr you get the firearm felony and its game over
Exactly, and there is already precedent for the ignorance of the restriction not working. I suggest spending money on a good criminal lawyer to fight the new charge and forget about getting rights restored.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 30, 2013, 06:59:28 AM
In any crime that would fall under the 4473 that would keep you from obtaining a fire arm..you have committed a criminal act. Many assume by getting their case expunged from the system means they have their rights restored. That is a misconception.
What the Feds say (from the link I provided above)
Quote
Q: Is an individual who has been pardoned, or whose conviction was expunged or set aside, or whose civil rights have been restored, considered convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence?
No, as long as the pardon, expungement, or restoration does not expressly provide that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms.
So it looks like they are saying, that the instant an individuals misdemeanor DV is expunged, firearm rights are reinstated.
Not a lawyer
Post by: mazama on June 30, 2013, 09:25:59 AM
Post by: mountainman on June 30, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
Post by: huntnphool on June 30, 2013, 09:39:54 AM
A good buddy of ours was found with a few firearms and now is facing charges. He says he was not aware of the restriction since he thought he had his rights restored through the courts.Washington?
Any suggestions, ideas, comments or good Attorneys that will fight cases like this?
Post by: Knocker of rocks on June 30, 2013, 09:43:34 AM
You would have to be "convicted" in order for it to later be "expunged". When purchasing a firearm, you are asked if you have ever been convicted, not convicted then expunged
Not a lawyer, but I think expunged means it never happened
Post by: ICEMAN on June 30, 2013, 09:48:41 AM
In this state, there is no provision for restoring someones rights if they were convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Post by: mountainman on June 30, 2013, 10:22:50 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on June 30, 2013, 01:03:29 PM
The problem with this type of discussion is that the states and the fed do not apply a universal standard for restricting and/or restoring firearm possession rights.
In this state, there is no provision for restoring someones rights if they were convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Something must have changed then. Because there used to be. I think you may be wrong about this.
Post by: ICEMAN on June 30, 2013, 02:42:16 PM
There are three things we are talking about here, Vacate of a record (hide from public view), Expungement of a record (like it never happened), and Restoration of gun rights.
Post by: runamuk on June 30, 2013, 02:55:44 PM
You would have to be "convicted" in order for it to later be "expunged". When purchasing a firearm, you are asked if you have ever been convicted, not convicted then expunged
Not a lawyer, but I think expunged means it never happened
Expungement is a method for cleaning up your criminal record. This procedure reopens your criminal case, dismisses the conviction, and re-closes the case without a conviction. In effect, you are no longer a convicted person. However, the case record itself will still exist, and the expungement will appear on your record.
from this site........just a quick find
http://www.saclaw.lib.ca.us/pages/expunging-criminal-records.aspx (http://www.saclaw.lib.ca.us/pages/expunging-criminal-records.aspx)
expungement does not always restore gun rights and restoring gun rights are handled differently in different places.....no idea on lawyers for the original poster.
Post by: mountainman on June 30, 2013, 03:35:26 PM
Post by: RifleRidge on June 30, 2013, 03:59:57 PM
Post by: HntnFsh on June 30, 2013, 04:35:49 PM
In my experience, someone from Washington can get a domestic violence assault (gross misdemeanor) conviction vacated from their record, but this does not restore their firearms rights. The vacate only removes the conviction from the view of the public when they pull a criminal history on them. Law enforcement etc...can still see the DV firearms restricting conviction....
There are three things we are talking about here, Vacate of a record (hide from public view), Expungement of a record (like it never happened), and Restoration of gun rights.
I understand that. But you said there is no means of restoring someones rights if they are convicted of a DV crime. But I'm sure there is. But you have to petition the courts for it. I believe it has to be a certain # of years before you can do it.
I think what you mean to say is that your rights arent automatically restored by having the conviction expunged. And I'm sure that is correct.
Another thing I have heard is that is extremely hard to get your record expunged in Wa. anymore. Dont know if thats true or not.
Post by: runamuk on June 30, 2013, 05:13:25 PM
Quote
A mandatory consequence resulting from a DV conviction in Washington state is the loss of your right to possess a firearm. Unlike other sentencing conditions imposed by the court, the prohibition against possession of firearms has no expiration date and is permanent unless or until the individual successfully petitions the court for reinstatement of this right, Additionally, no exceptions are made for those who must carry a firearm for employment purposes (i.e. law enforcement, military personnel). Pursuant to RCW 9.41.047, at the time of conviction for a DV offense, the court must both orally and in writing notify the defendant "that he must immediately surrender any concealed pistol license and that the person may not possess a firearm unless his or her right to do so is restored by a court of record." This is a very complicated are of domestic violence defense and gun law.
Post by: ICEMAN on June 30, 2013, 07:19:50 PM
In my experience, someone from Washington can get a domestic violence assault (gross misdemeanor) conviction vacated from their record, but this does not restore their firearms rights. The vacate only removes the conviction from the view of the public when they pull a criminal history on them. Law enforcement etc...can still see the DV firearms restricting conviction....
There are three things we are talking about here, Vacate of a record (hide from public view), Expungement of a record (like it never happened), and Restoration of gun rights.
I understand that. But you said there is no means of restoring someones rights if they are convicted of a DV crime. But I'm sure there is. But you have to petition the courts for it. I believe it has to be a certain # of years before you can do it.
I think what you mean to say is that your rights arent automatically restored by having the conviction expunged. And I'm sure that is correct.
Another thing I have heard is that is extremely hard to get your record expunged in Wa. anymore. Dont know if thats true or not.
Well, I did say "gross misdemeanor? domestic violence conviction...and that is the rub. No state rcw which addresses firearm restoration when the conviction is a GM DV conviction...
Post by: stevemiller on June 30, 2013, 08:32:46 PM
The problem with this type of discussion is that the states and the fed do not apply a universal standard for restricting and/or restoring firearm possession rights.wrong sorry.if you have the conviction vacated and then petition to have gun rights restored your good and have not been convicted.
In this state, there is no provision for restoring someones rights if they were convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Post by: ICEMAN on June 30, 2013, 10:17:03 PM
The problem with this type of discussion is that the states and the fed do not apply a universal standard for restricting and/or restoring firearm possession rights.wrong sorry.if you have the conviction vacated and then petition to have gun rights restored your good and have not been convicted.
In this state, there is no provision for restoring someones rights if they were convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
So not true.
Go try to get a job as a cop then....
When you vacate a record, it is still on your record, just not viewable to the public. It is still part of your record.
Not Destroyed.
You were convicted.
You still were convicted.
Don't trust me, fine. Go see here: http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.displayContent&theFile=content/guideToCrimHistoryRecords (http://www.courts.wa.gov/newsinfo/index.cfm?fa=newsinfo.displayContent&theFile=content/guideToCrimHistoryRecords)
Effect of Vacating Conviction. An offender whose conviction has been vacated may state for all purposes that he or she has not been convicted of that crime. When a conviction is vacated, however, the court file is not destroyed. The conviction may be used in a later criminal prosecution.
Post by: stevemiller on June 30, 2013, 10:57:11 PM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on July 01, 2013, 03:55:17 AM
A good buddy of ours was found with a few firearms and now is facing charges. He says he was not aware of the restriction since he thought he had his rights restored through the courts.\
Any suggestions, ideas, comments or good Attorneys that will fight cases like this?
It depends on how long ago the said crime was committed. I think the date is somewhere around 1994. If your said crime was committed after that date, then you have to go through the proses of expungement. Depending on the crime, not all crimes can be expunged. It depends on the violence of the crime. If you did said crime before 1994 and have received a letter from the convicting court saying that ALL your civil rights are hereby restored, you good to go. That means you can now have a passport and leave the country, you can vote and even serve on a jury.
That is Washington state's rules for restoring your gun rights. On a federal level The ATF definition of convicted felon means that you had to be incarcerated for more than 365 consecutive days. If you did less than 365, you are not by federal definition a convicted felon.
Post by: HntnFsh on July 01, 2013, 05:21:47 AM
Post by: Mudman on July 01, 2013, 05:38:04 AM
Post by: Mike450r on July 01, 2013, 08:04:18 AM
It is too late now, he needs to worry about keeping his butt out of prison, if he were to petition the court at this point it would be a "NO" for sure. And if convicted of this new felony well, no chance until he waits the 5 years and doesn't get in any more trouble.
Post by: stevemiller on July 01, 2013, 09:11:48 AM
Post by: HntnFsh on July 01, 2013, 04:28:32 PM
This guy could be and likely will be charged with a class b felony for unlawful possession of a firearm, maybe multiple counts if they charge for each firearm. That is possible prison time. The discussion regarding getting rights restored is not appropriate unless he was to have done it awhile ago.
It is too late now, he needs to worry about keeping his butt out of prison, if he were to petition the court at this point it would be a "NO" for sure. And if convicted of this new felony well, no chance until he waits the 5 years and doesn't get in any more trouble.
Thats a very true point. We just kinda skipped right over that aspect didnt we!
Post by: stevemiller on July 01, 2013, 04:39:42 PM
Post by: Mike450r on July 01, 2013, 09:28:38 PM
The 5 year wait is a mute point.if he is convicted of this and he prob. will (sorry) he will have no chance.It can only be done for one crime ever unless it happened at the same time,so this felony firearm violation is the end for his gun rights.(but never say never i guess)All of this info and paperwork can be obtained at your prosecuting att. office.
The "I didn't know" defense won't work. If you have the guns you are guilty. I think the best outcome may be a plea deal for a misdemeanor if at all possible.
Post by: stevemiller on July 02, 2013, 12:24:44 AM
Post by: GrainfedMuley on July 02, 2013, 04:07:09 AM
The 5 year wait is a mute point.if he is convicted of this and he prob. will (sorry) he will have no chance.It can only be done for one crime ever unless it happened at the same time,so this felony firearm violation is the end for his gun rights.(but never say never i guess)All of this info and paperwork can be obtained at your prosecuting att. office.
The "I didn't know" defense won't work. If you have the guns you are guilty. I think the best outcome may be a plea deal for a misdemeanor if at all possible.
Quite simply........ignorance is no defense in a court of law.
Post by: Alchase on July 02, 2013, 11:34:13 AM
Two years later he is almost through the restoration of his "right to carry" for lack of a better term. It has cost him $1800.00 in lawyer fees.
What he was told, since 911, background checks for CPLs also include "any" conviction, and the approvals of CPLs are held to much higher standard the pre-911. There was some Homeland Security/Sheriff co-operation reference as well.
Post by: RifleRidge on July 06, 2013, 10:39:29 AM
Interesting stuff guys. Confusing too.
:yeah:
Post by: RifleRidge on July 06, 2013, 01:05:54 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2013, 01:47:20 PM
Post by: Red Ryder on July 06, 2013, 10:57:36 PM
Post by: RifleRidge on July 07, 2013, 08:40:59 AM
Is your friend in the Yacolt area? I know of a lawyer who specializes in this but he is located in Bellevue. He may be able to give you legal advice or a referral if he knows of one in that area. David Newman is with the Rainier Law Group. His phone number is 425-748-5200. Good luck.
Buddy lives in Camas, WA.. He is very confused about the civil rights. A few years ago the courts called him in for Jury Duty and he has been able to vote, But now learning about his firearm rights and has spent time in jail for this. I will pass this referral along to him .. Thank you
Post by: James E on July 11, 2013, 06:16:11 PM
Pm me. I have info, and a good attorney.