Post by: Todd_ID on July 12, 2013, 01:36:46 PM
Easton Axis 340 black 9.5 gpi at 29.25" length from bottom of nock V to end of cut carbon
X-Nock standard is 9 grains
Nockturnal X Lighted Nock is 20-21 grains
3 Blazer fletched
4" of arrow wrap
With 125 grain heads:
Without lighted nocks: 450 grains, 12.8% FOC
With lighted nocks: 462 grains, 11.5% FOC
With 100 grain heads:
Without lighted nocks: 425 grains, 10.7% FOC
With lighted nocks: 437 grains, 9.4% FOC
The end result was that with the lighted nock installed I saw a point of impact shift of 7" higher at 40 yards than without them installed. My bow is tuned to get broadheads and field points impacting at the same point.
To create the same weight as the lighted nocks, so I don't have to use the battery life, I found that 2.5" of 18 gauge automotive wire folded in half and glued into a standard X nock is the same weight as the Nockturnal nock.
The Nockturnal nocks I bought were red. I can't see the flight in the full sun, but overcast days are ok. Morning and evening they shine stellar. One of the nocks I got had a sticky switch, but I used my pocket knife to run the switch on and off about 30 times, and it started working correctly. The rest of the nocks worked as advertised.
Post by: IBspoiled on July 12, 2013, 01:47:04 PM
Post by: brianb231 on July 12, 2013, 02:20:45 PM
Post by: RadSav on July 13, 2013, 03:51:51 AM
Post by: Todd_ID on July 13, 2013, 04:56:26 AM
Post by: RadSav on July 13, 2013, 05:32:26 AM
Post by: Old Dog on July 13, 2013, 07:54:06 AM
Post by: Bowcrazy on July 27, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Bowcrazy
Post by: turkeyfeather on July 27, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
Post by: demontang on July 27, 2013, 11:39:48 PM
Post by: mountainman on July 28, 2013, 12:45:00 AM
Post by: Whitetail freak on July 28, 2013, 08:16:42 AM
Post by: nocklehead on July 29, 2013, 01:27:39 PM
Mine seem to fly the same so far. I can put a broad head lighted nock next to my regular nocks out to 50yds. I was just playing with them last night :dunno::yeah: I have nocturnals as well and dont have a change in group, carrying and shooting both lighted and not in my quiver right now and both hit the same place.
They sure look cool right before dark, I will definately be using these in the evening hunt, even on my small game arrow.
Post by: CoryTDF on July 29, 2013, 01:50:13 PM
Post by: 2MANY on July 29, 2013, 04:08:17 PM
I see the light!!
Post by: jathtech on September 24, 2013, 02:25:02 PM
First, whatever the grain difference is, (12 grains?) it should really be nominal. In theory however, it might effect the flight of the arrow ever so slightly. The OP is way beyond what I would expect however. Here are my theories as to why to nocks cause this:
1, Nocking point. If the nocking point is lower, it could cause the arrow to "bounce" off the arrow rest more with the heavier nock, accounting for its higher impact point.
2, Wind resistance. You're going to have a slightly slower arrow, but it going to maintain its speed better than a lighter arrow. This may cause the lighter arrow to slow down beyond where the slightly heavier arrow is, and drop more out to 40 yards.
3, harmonics. Sometimes, you just get things tuned just right where the vibration is perfect, and the least amount of wind resistance is achieved.
4, String grab. It's possible that the nocks are grabbing the strings differently, either tighter causing it to hang on to the string too long, or looser causing it to bounce off of the string and not get the full energy.
Keep in mind, these are just theories, and not based on experience as I am new to archery (however not to marksmanship, or physics).
Post by: Todd_ID on September 24, 2013, 02:33:48 PM
4, String grab. It's possible that the nocks are grabbing the strings differently, either tighter causing it to hang on to the string too long, or looser causing it to bounce off of the string and not get the full energy.
This one was the problem... The Easton X nocks had a larger string gap than the Nockturnal X nock, so it was staying on the string longer. I don't remember the actual difference off the top of my head, but it was substantial (something like .030" or .040" difference). I filed the inside of the Nockturnals to the same internal dimensions as Easton's, and the problem went away.
Post by: Russ McDonald on September 24, 2013, 03:05:07 PM
Post by: TommyH on September 24, 2013, 09:20:43 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 24, 2013, 10:05:06 PM
Todays nocks are polycarbonate instead of cellulose-butyrate like they were in the old days. Polycarb is stronger, wears out at a slower rate but is stiffer and shows impact differences with less throat width change. Watch them closely if you see impact points rise or fall. Sometimes if you have one arrow that doesn't group with the dozen you can recover it with a simple nock change instead of sending it skyward off the mountain top ;)
Post by: bowhunterforever on September 25, 2013, 05:07:46 AM
I wish all pro shops would buy a trigger pull gauge. Would save a lot of headaches for archers with these issues. Back in my target days it was surprising to see how much each cavity in a mold would change. I ended up sorting nocks by the cavity number molded into the nock. Some do it these days some do not. With the pull gauge it makes life much easier. If you shoot a lot it is also a good practice to keep a shot journal for each arrow/nock. Find out when impact points change by how many shots it has taken. Back then aluminum arrows only had so many shots before spine would start to change as well. Doubt that is an issue with carbon, but I no longer keep journals as I rarely shoot enough these days.Don't know really what your talking about but i'm glad you joined this site :tup: those few words I don't understand
Todays nocks are polycarbonate instead of cellulose-butyrate like they were in the old days. Polycarb is stronger, wears out at a slower rate but is stiffer and shows impact differences with less throat width change. Watch them closely if you see impact points rise or fall. Sometimes if you have one arrow that doesn't group with the dozen you can recover it with a simple nock change instead of sending it skyward off the mountain top ;)
Post by: swift on September 25, 2013, 07:31:37 AM
Post by: JJD on September 28, 2013, 09:34:31 PM
Chrono at just under 300fps.
Nocturnal "S", shoots less than 1 inch low (average) at 30 yds
Post by: RadSav on September 28, 2013, 09:44:57 PM
29.5 " Carbon x maxima hunter 350, with accunocks, 100 gr Striker broad heads. Draw weight at 62 lbs
Chrono at just under 300fps.
Nocturnal "S", shoots less than 1 inch low (average) at 30 yds
I was given a sample of the Accunock a few years ago. Looks pretty neat, though the technology is older than one might think. Seems a guy gave me a sample back around '93 or '94 with the same principle though I do not know what happened to him. Guess it could have been the same guy. I have yet to shoot an arrow with one. I'm intrigued enough I might give them a thorough work up this off season since the new Carbon Express nocks are horrible! And I am just about out of my Easton Micro Lite and Old clear CE. Was thinking I might have to go back to shooting ACC's just so I could get the X-Nock. Was that or make my own X-Unibushing for the Carbon Express shafts.
1" difference at 30 yards changing nocks and adding the extra weight. That's not bad at all in my book :tup: Do you know what you ended up in FOC?
Post by: sakoshooter on September 29, 2013, 02:18:38 PM
According to this thread, Nockturnals seem to be the best - Any other opinions as far as durability, reliability, etc?
Post by: RadSav on September 29, 2013, 02:27:38 PM
I've been really hesitant to try any illuminated nocks but after reading about simple minor point of impact changes, I might have to find some X Nockturnals. Especially after looking hard for my arrow from my blacktail. Finally found it but it would have been obvious with a lighted nock. With late elk coming up, days are going to be shorter and darker as winter moves in. A lighted nock might just be a smart move.
According to this thread, Nockturnals seem to be the best - Any other opinions as far as durability, reliability, etc?
I have found nothing that compares to the Nockturnal. But you do need to make sure the switch moves freely. Some that are sticky will not group with the others. DO NOT TRY TO OIL THEM! Just work the switch on and off until good and free. Usually just a bit of flash in the holes. The flash/burrs will break off if you work them a little. I do still think in most circumstances stepping up to a heavier broadhead is advised. Shooting on the range in good weather is vastly different than shooting in the field in not so perfect weather. If you have poor FOC you will find that one out sooner or later. Better to error on the side of caution than to screw up the shot of a lifetime to save a couple FPS or a few bucks on new broadheads.
Post by: sakoshooter on September 29, 2013, 06:28:39 PM
Post by: RadSav on September 29, 2013, 06:41:46 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on September 29, 2013, 07:31:47 PM
If you are 12% now I don't think it should be too bad. But I no longer have your numbers so just guessing on that.70# Z7 @ 28.5" draw. 28" Axis 300's, 125gr Slick Trick Viper Tricks, 3 fletched w/Blazers - pink ones ol buddy.
I could probably add a 1/2" to the shaft length to overcome the lighted nock added weight and come close to keeping the FOC the same as long as they'd still broadhead tune as I suspect they would.
Post by: RadSav on September 29, 2013, 08:51:56 PM
Post by: JJD on October 01, 2013, 04:17:30 PM
Will measure out foc tomorrow. Don't mean to get off subject, but the accunocks did get me another 2 to 3 fps over the carbon x nocks. They are however, fragile. A few dozen shots and one part or another breaks. Not sure they are worth it. As mentioned the carbon x nocks leave some to be desired.29.5 " Carbon x maxima hunter 350, with accunocks, 100 gr Striker broad heads. Draw weight at 62 lbs
Chrono at just under 300fps.
Nocturnal "S", shoots less than 1 inch low (average) at 30 yds
I was given a sample of the Accunock a few years ago. Looks pretty neat, though the technology is older than one might think. Seems a guy gave me a sample back around '93 or '94 with the same principle though I do not know what happened to him. Guess it could have been the same guy. I have yet to shoot an arrow with one. I'm intrigued enough I might give them a thorough work up this off season since the new Carbon Express nocks are horrible! And I am just about out of my Easton Micro Lite and Old clear CE. Was thinking I might have to go back to shooting ACC's just so I could get the X-Nock. Was that or make my own X-Unibushing for the Carbon Express shafts.
1" difference at 30 yards changing nocks and adding the extra weight. That's not bad at all in my book :tup: Do you know what you ended up in FOC?
Post by: buckfvr on October 01, 2013, 04:20:47 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on October 01, 2013, 04:44:30 PM
Post by: coachcw on October 01, 2013, 04:47:19 PM
Post by: RadSav on October 01, 2013, 04:59:50 PM
Ya know Rad, that most important thing is that they'd look cool if I ever got to shoot something, LOL.
It's really cool when you miss :chuckle: I did that on a buck up in BC. He saw that lighted nock and walked over to it trying to figure out what that dang light was. He was so confused by it he stuck around long enough for me to put one in the right spot :IBCOOL:
Post by: sakoshooter on October 01, 2013, 09:33:29 PM
Ya know Rad, that most important thing is that they'd look cool if I ever got to shoot something, LOL.
It's really cool when you miss :chuckle: I did that on a buck up in BC. He saw that lighted nock and walked over to it trying to figure out what that dang light was. He was so confused by it he stuck around long enough for me to put one in the right spot :IBCOOL:
Maybe some Tinks #69 dabbed on the nock might help also.
Post by: RadSav on October 01, 2013, 09:40:10 PM
Ya know Rad, that most important thing is that they'd look cool if I ever got to shoot something, LOL.
It's really cool when you miss :chuckle: I did that on a buck up in BC. He saw that lighted nock and walked over to it trying to figure out what that dang light was. He was so confused by it he stuck around long enough for me to put one in the right spot :IBCOOL:
Maybe some Tinks #69 dabbed on the nock might help also.
Now you are talking :tup: One day I will tell you a story about my evening with Tink and his daughter at the Houston Red Lobster. :chuckle:
Post by: JJD on October 02, 2013, 01:41:34 PM
Will measure out foc tomorrow. Don't mean to get off subject, but the accunocks did get me another 2 to 3 fps over the carbon x nocks. They are however, fragile. A few dozen shots and one part or another breaks. Not sure they are worth it. As mentioned the carbon x nocks leave some to be desired.29.5 " Carbon x maxima hunter 350, with accunocks, 100 gr Striker broad heads. Draw weight at 62 lbs
Chrono at just under 300fps.
Nocturnal "S", shoots less than 1 inch low (average) at 30 yds
I was given a sample of the Accunock a few years ago. Looks pretty neat, though the technology is older than one might think. Seems a guy gave me a sample back around '93 or '94 with the same principle though I do not know what happened to him. Guess it could have been the same guy. I have yet to shoot an arrow with one. I'm intrigued enough I might give them a thorough work up this off season since the new Carbon Express nocks are horrible! And I am just about out of my Easton Micro Lite and Old clear CE. Was thinking I might have to go back to shooting ACC's just so I could get the X-Nock. Was that or make my own X-Unibushing for the Carbon Express shafts.
1" difference at 30 yards changing nocks and adding the extra weight. That's not bad at all in my book :tup: Do you know what you ended up in FOC?
Measured to tip if broad head
Accunocks Gave me 8.9 FOC
Nocturnals gave 7.8 FOC
1.1 difference
My understanding is that 7 FOC is pretty minimal.
Kinda surprised they were as close as they were.
Post by: Smossy on October 02, 2013, 01:53:26 PM
My FOC with nocturnals puts me in the 10% range.Will measure out foc tomorrow. Don't mean to get off subject, but the accunocks did get me another 2 to 3 fps over the carbon x nocks. They are however, fragile. A few dozen shots and one part or another breaks. Not sure they are worth it. As mentioned the carbon x nocks leave some to be desired.29.5 " Carbon x maxima hunter 350, with accunocks, 100 gr Striker broad heads. Draw weight at 62 lbs
Chrono at just under 300fps.
Nocturnal "S", shoots less than 1 inch low (average) at 30 yds
I was given a sample of the Accunock a few years ago. Looks pretty neat, though the technology is older than one might think. Seems a guy gave me a sample back around '93 or '94 with the same principle though I do not know what happened to him. Guess it could have been the same guy. I have yet to shoot an arrow with one. I'm intrigued enough I might give them a thorough work up this off season since the new Carbon Express nocks are horrible! And I am just about out of my Easton Micro Lite and Old clear CE. Was thinking I might have to go back to shooting ACC's just so I could get the X-Nock. Was that or make my own X-Unibushing for the Carbon Express shafts.
1" difference at 30 yards changing nocks and adding the extra weight. That's not bad at all in my book :tup: Do you know what you ended up in FOC?
Measured to tip if broad head
Accunocks Gave me 8.9 FOC
Nocturnals gave 7.8 FOC
1.1 difference
My understanding is that 7 FOC is pretty minimal.
Kinda surprised they were as close as they were.
Post by: sakoshooter on October 02, 2013, 09:00:12 PM
A link that might help.
Post by: AKBowman on October 14, 2013, 09:18:00 AM
Rad, I'm just over 12% FOC with my Axis 300's and 125gr broadheads now. Putting on a Nockturnal would certainly change that but I really don't want to go to a 150gr broadhead. My total arrow weight now is 480grs and penetration is excellent. Accuracy is super based on our discussions earlier this year when I was trying to make 340's work. Speed is 270fps according to my Pro Chrono. Helical Blazers. Giving up some speed but accuracy and forgiveness is way more important to me.
Why not just add a slightly heavier insert and keep the broad head at 125gr?
Post by: sakoshooter on October 14, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
This would work but besides adding a little bit more weight in the lighted nock and adding more weight in a heavier insert, I'd be slowing my arrow down more than I'd like to.Rad, I'm just over 12% FOC with my Axis 300's and 125gr broadheads now. Putting on a Nockturnal would certainly change that but I really don't want to go to a 150gr broadhead. My total arrow weight now is 480grs and penetration is excellent. Accuracy is super based on our discussions earlier this year when I was trying to make 340's work. Speed is 270fps according to my Pro Chrono. Helical Blazers. Giving up some speed but accuracy and forgiveness is way more important to me.
Why not just add a slightly heavier insert and keep the broad head at 125gr?