Post by: Evil_EdwardO on July 30, 2013, 11:42:19 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 30, 2013, 11:44:51 AM
Post by: bearpaw on July 30, 2013, 11:53:44 AM
Post by: WSU on July 30, 2013, 12:00:28 PM
Whether you prefer elk or grizzly bears isn't part of the study. The above facts are.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on July 30, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves. They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet. If I’m wrong then I will be hunting elk on the _____ road only because it’s loaded with berries right now and the “elks” are sure to come feed. Weird though, I was there Saturday and all of the elks were elsewhere eating grasses???"
I told him that he was smart and should be a wildlife biologist. Maybe not...he'd probably turn rotten with a little persuasion of the QUALITY ELK TAG kind :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: WSU on July 30, 2013, 12:12:29 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 30, 2013, 12:20:38 PM
"Unfortunately, as wildlife ecologists working in a vast landscape such as the greater Yellowstone ecosystem it is very difficult to unravel the complexity of the patterns."
Post by: BIGINNER on July 30, 2013, 12:33:49 PM
Posted for BLUESBULLS I sent him the same article:
"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves. They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet. If I’m wrong then I will be hunting elk on the _____ road only because it’s loaded with berries right now and the “elks” are sure to come feed. Weird though, I was there Saturday and all of the elks were elsewhere eating grasses???"
I told him that he was smart and should be a wildlife biologist. Maybe not...he'd probably turn rotten with a little persuasion of the QUALITY ELK TAG kind :chuckle: :chuckle:
:yeah: that though actually crossed my mind while reading this article.... :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2013, 02:16:00 PM
Posted for BLUESBULLS I sent him the same article:
"For several years we lacked spring/summer moisture which produces late summer/early fall berries. Well get this, the last 2 years we’ve had exceptional, record high precipitation in the late spring/early summer and had bumper crops of berries. Remember 3 years ago when you guys had a lot of bear issues in Idaho? Well that was in part due to the lack of berries. No problems last year, right? Well there you have it, just plain old good conditions for berries the last 2 years. They sure can come up with a lot of ******* to save some wolves.
Quite likely.
They might want to read up a little bit and find that “elks” are “grazers”, not “browsers” and therefore berry bushes would not be a main part of the “elks” diet.
Do berry bushes qualify as "shrubs?" If so, you're not entirely correct.
Diet
Summer: grasses and forbs
Spring and Fall: grasses
Winter: grasses, shrubs, tree bark and twigs
http://www.rmef.org/ElkFacts.aspx (http://www.rmef.org/ElkFacts.aspx)
Post by: jackmaster on July 30, 2013, 02:27:19 PM
Post by: Mr Mykiss on July 30, 2013, 02:44:17 PM
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2013, 02:58:45 PM
I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
You see many berries in winter when elk snack on bushes? :dunno:
They don't eat just grass in winter, they would starve when the snow falls in a place like Yellowstone. And bushes chewed to the ground don't produce berries in Spring and Summer.
But believe whatever "facts" you want to. This is the internet after all.
Post by: snowpack on July 30, 2013, 03:02:10 PM
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2013, 03:03:43 PM
I didn't write it but I trust the source.:lol4:
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2013, 03:06:22 PM
I know they have tall fences around some of the berry farms to keep the elk out. Haven't heard of the elk eating the actual berries, but they do eat some bushes and trample a lot of bushes. I know they eat salal bushes, but haven't seen where they eat the actual berry. Interesting to know.
:yeah:
Eating the bushes does the damage. Eating berries is not the problem.
Post by: JLS on July 30, 2013, 03:15:00 PM
idk if this is true or not but i heard that yellowstone isnt bringn in squat for money because there isnt anything to hardly see there anymore, i dont have a clue because i have never been there... i love how they are ok with replacing herbavores with 2 of the most violent carnivores known to man :dunno: :twocents:
Absolutely untrue.
Post by: JLS on July 30, 2013, 03:23:07 PM
I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.
Post by: Curly on July 30, 2013, 03:29:17 PM
I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.
Never let the facts get in the way of a funny statement. :)
Post by: JLS on July 30, 2013, 03:31:40 PM
I didn't write it but I trust the source.
Aspen ask yourself this... have you ever seen elk poop made of berries??** :dunno:
**If you did then you're wrong, it was bear poop!! :chuckle:
The article said the elk were eating the bushes, not the berries.
Never let the facts get in the way of a funny statement. :)
I did laugh :tup:
Post by: buckfvr on July 30, 2013, 03:36:55 PM
Post by: JLS on July 30, 2013, 03:40:29 PM
sage brush, bitter brush, red stem, poplar, juniper, scrub alder, vine maple......the list of elk browse goes on and on....... huckle berry, service berry, snow berry.......on and on..........seedlings in reprod......yep, they eat grasses, but they also browse significantly to survive in the mountains........it aint the great plains animal it once was dorothy.......................
and aspen bark in the winter.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on July 30, 2013, 03:45:18 PM
Post by: KFhunter on July 30, 2013, 05:35:58 PM
grizz eat the wolves' leftovers, scavange the partially eaten carcasses.
Why their noses are so good, they can smell a wolf kill before it happens and travel miles to get there. They'll run em off the kill if they are big enough or the wolves fat enough.
berries - pfft
Post by: AspenBud on July 30, 2013, 06:59:17 PM
The article is right for the wrong reasons imo
grizz eat the wolves' leftovers, scavange the partially eaten carcasses.
Why their noses are so good, they can smell a wolf kill before it happens and travel miles to get there. They'll run em off the kill if they are big enough or the wolves fat enough.
berries - pfft
Or they do what this black bear does...
Bear Kills Moose (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JVkaMqD5mI#)
Post by: denali on July 30, 2013, 07:10:17 PM
Hug or no hug I don't think we're going to be able to do anything about it... no we're not in Kansas anymore Dorothy...we're in Idaho.
very true...without the politics to do a thing about it :bash:
Post by: denali on July 30, 2013, 07:11:26 PM
Post by: Labs07 on July 31, 2013, 12:00:22 PM
Post by: wolfbait on July 31, 2013, 09:30:36 PM
I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.
Post by: Mr Mykiss on July 31, 2013, 09:40:58 PM
This is just one more BS fake story for the brain-washed biologist and city people to read. Remember the lies that that David Mech told to further the wolf agenda? Remember the lie of how the beaver had multiplied?? THEN COME TO FIND OUT THE AZZHOES HAD PLANT 16O some beaver. Wellcome to the USFWS propaganda machine. Not to worry, we have WAcoyote to straighten us all out. WDFW is true blue, they would never tell a lie! Wolves will not impact the game herds in WA.
I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.
I'm confused. Could you please clearly state your position on this issue?
Post by: flatbkman on August 01, 2013, 07:50:05 AM
If you look further a grizzly will eat a variety of foods of which berries is only a minor part during only a portion of the year.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070215083202.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070215083202.htm)
Post by: wolfbait on August 01, 2013, 12:57:22 PM
This is just one more BS fake story for the brain-washed biologist and city people to read. Remember the lies that that David Mech told to further the wolf agenda? Remember the lie of how the beaver had multiplied?? THEN COME TO FIND OUT THE AZZHOES HAD PLANT 16O some beaver. Wellcome to the USFWS propaganda machine. Not to worry, we have WAcoyote to straighten us all out. WDFW is true blue, they would never tell a lie! Wolves will not impact the game herds in WA.
I suppose jackelope is going to delete this thread now? Oh wait this is now 2013 and it's harder to hide the truth.
I'm confused. Could you please clearly state your position on this issue?
THE WILDLANDS PROJECT http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/wildlands_project_step_by_step.htm (http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/wildlands_project_step_by_step.htm)
Post by: headshot5 on August 01, 2013, 12:59:26 PM
Quote
The article makes it sound like berries are the staple of the grizzly bear's diet making them out to be vegans or something.
If you look further a grizzly will eat a variety of foods of which berries is only a minor part during only a portion of the year.
Yep the article makes it sound like berries are on the bush year-round.
Post by: wolfbait on August 01, 2013, 01:21:19 PM
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A new study suggests that the return of wolves to Yellowstone National Park is beginning to bring back a key part of the diet of grizzly bears that has been missing for much of the past century—berries that help bears put on fat before going into hibernation.
The report was published today by scientists from Oregon State University and Washington State University in the Journal of Animal Ecology. The researchers found that the level of berries consumed by Yellowstone grizzlies is significantly higher now that shrubs are starting to recover from >"overbrowsing by elk herds"<.
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The berry bushes also produce flowers of value to pollinators such as butterflies, insects and hummingbirds, as well as food for other mammals and birds.
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The report said berries may be sufficiently important to grizzly bear diet and health that they >"could be considered in deciding whether to change the “threatened” status of grizzly bears under the Endangered Species Act."<
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“Studies like this also point to the need for an ecologically effective number of wolves,” said co-author Robert Beschta, an OSU professor emeritus. >“As we learn more about the cascading effects they have on ecosystems", the issue may be more than having just enough individual wolves so they can survive as a species.<
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In some situations, we may wish to consider the >"numbers"< necessary to help control overbrowsing, allow tree and shrub recovery, and restore ecosystem health.”
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The study found that the percentage of fruit in grizzly bear scat in recent years almost doubled during August.
There is precedent for high levels of ungulate foraging causing problems for grizzly bears. Before going extinct in the American Southwest by the early 1900s, grizzly bear diets shifted toward livestock depredation, the report noted, because of lack of plant-based food caused by >"livestock overgrazing".<
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Increases in berry production in Yellowstone may also provide a buffer against other ecosystem shifts, the researchers noted; whitebark pine nut production, a favored bear food, may be facing pressure from >"climate change".< Grizzly bear survival declined during years of low nut production.
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Livestock grazing in grizzly bear habitat adjacent to the national park, and bison foraging in the park, likely also contribute to high foraging pressure on shrubs and forbs, the report said.
In addition to eliminating wolf-livestock conflicts, >"retiring livestock allotments"< in the grizzly bear recovery zone adjacent to Yellowstone could benefit bears through increases in plant foods.
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http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005148318 (http://www.mtexpress.com/index2.php?ID=2005148318)
Post by: wolfbait on August 01, 2013, 01:34:59 PM
A New Vision For North Cascades -- Environmentalists' Concepts Would Transcend Boundaries http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774 (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774)
Friedman says a reserve must be big enough to accommodate the ecosystem's most wide-ranging creatures, the grizzly and gray wolf.
"It doesn't matter whose land it is," he says. "The critters don't know."
If people really want to live in greater harmony with the land and other species, Friedman says, it's got to start somewhere - and the North Cascades is a better candidate than most.
Post by: villageidiot on August 01, 2013, 02:33:14 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 01, 2013, 02:38:12 PM
A New Vision For North Cascades -- Environmentalists' Concepts Would Transcend Boundaries http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774 (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19931103&slug=1729774)
Friedman says a reserve must be big enough to accommodate the ecosystem's most wide-ranging creatures, the grizzly and gray wolf.
"It doesn't matter whose land it is," he says. "The critters don't know."
If people really want to live in greater harmony with the land and other species, Friedman says, it's got to start somewhere - and the North Cascades is a better candidate than most.
Friedman is a wolf hugger. What do we expect him to say? What I don't get is that these people get away with printing this Eco-Utopian crap like it has any bearing whatsoever on present day life.
Post by: Humptulips on August 02, 2013, 10:02:20 AM
I know they have tall fences around some of the berry farms to keep the elk out. Haven't heard of the elk eating the actual berries, but they do eat some bushes and trample a lot of bushes. I know they eat salal bushes, but haven't seen where they eat the actual berry. Interesting to know.
:yeah:
Eating the bushes does the damage. Eating berries is not the problem.
It has been my experience that a certain amount of browsing spurs berry growth.
Post by: Curly on August 02, 2013, 10:07:16 AM
Post by: jackmaster on August 02, 2013, 02:06:47 PM
Sounds like it is time for a Grizzly bear season AND a wolf season. :tup: :twocents::yeah: :yeah: :yeah: damn SKIPPY