Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: Yummy and Tasty Animal on October 22, 2008, 05:04:48 PM
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I was reading up on German Shorthairs because I'm interested in getting one and one source said that they are great for retrieving ducks in the water as well as pointing while upland game hunting. I want a dog that can do both, but didn't think that one existed. I know they can point, but are they also good at retrieving ducks in the water? Another question I have is: How are they in cold weather since they have such short hair?
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I have heard some will swim, some will not. Mine LOVES to swim. Sadly, I haven't got any real duck retrieves out of him (havent taken him), just dummy retrieves out of the water, but he does great on those. He does get cold kind of easily, and I don't know that I would feel ok taking him out in harsh weather, even with his neoprene vest. :twocents:
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Do you know of any breed that is a great pointer and water retriever, or do I have to settle for one or the other?
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Weimaraner's are excellent pointer's and retrievers. They with stand the cold with out question. German shorthairs are also a very good dog, German wirehair's are pretty dang good. So yeah just depend's on what kind of country your gonna hunt what kind of water your gonna hunt and what do you expect from your dog's...
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I have a GSP pointer who is a good upland dog but will not swim. Just doesn't like it. I know of 2 wirehair pointers that are great on ducks and upland birds. I also know 3-4 Labs that are great upland bird dog and waterfowler's. I hunted behind those labs a few times and they are great. Good Luck.
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Maybe look into a pointing lab? :dunno: Have heard good things about them.
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The Pudelpointer and the Wirehair are probably your best pointing dogs that are good cold weather duck dogs. Pointing labs just can't cover the same ground all day long like the pointers can on average. There just not built for it. How many 250 pound guys do you see running marathons competitively? They have there place though. Kind of depends on you and your style. Good luck in your choice.
Shannon
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i think i'm just gonna go with a retriever
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A pointing lab would probably do you well but you may want to look into a viszla. They are great all around dogs. Depending on where you hunt and the water temp.
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You should contact John Greer in Ellensburg. He specializes in breeding pointing Labs. He guarantees them to point. John is a great guy and an incredible trainer. He trained my GSP and now she is a real pleasure to hunt with. If you really want an incredible dog get one of his pups and then have him train it!
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both of mine loved to swim. we would be fishing and cast our bobber and line out and the dog would swim out, and bring back the bobber. we thought it was pretty cool till she got hooked in the ear.
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German WiredHairs is what you need, I have several buddys with these dogs and they are the best all around. Call Coy Moore over in moxee and check his dogs out. i have several friends who have his dogs and they excel at both.
i have been hunting for the same dog you describe and i have decided the GWP is it.
the GWP's bloodline is oold, established and they hunt, retrieve and swim automatically, Rainier 6 month old GWP is crazy birdie hunts his ass off, isn't gun shy, jumps in the pool and swam with us last weekend amd is the best inside family dog i've seen.
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I have had both and the shorthair was awesome on uplands but I think they would get too cold in the water. You can't go wrong with a lab. I feel the lab is probably the most versatile dog to hunt with.
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A GSP would get too cold in this climate to retrieve ducks.
Can't go wrong with a lab for upland and ducks........(unless you get one like mine; he didn't have the patience for duck hunting, but he loved hunting upland birds).
GWP seem like great dogs.
For upland and waterfowl, the top breeds in my mind are 1) Boykin Spaniel 2) Labrador 3) GWP
I'm very partial toward labs since those are the only dogs I have had, but if I get another dog I'm going to consider a Boykin or GWP.
Labs tend to range out a little farther and if you get a running pheasant you have to be really be able to run to keep up sometimes (unless you get a pointing lab). The older I get, the harder it gets to keep up with the dog running down a pheasant. But a lab would be the best of the three at being able to duck and goose hunt.
Boykins tend to hunt really close, so if a flushing dog is something you like, they make a lot of sense. With Chesepeke Bay Retreiver lines in them, they are able to handle cold weather fine. They are smaller than labs, so they would be easier to fit in your duck boat with all your gear.
GWP - very similar to GSP except they have the hair to help keep them warm in colder weather. And I think their hair would be better in the stickers, briars, and brush than a pointing lab. And they are so ugly that they are cute......if that makes any sense :P.
There's my :twocents:
p.s. - there's always individual dogs that are exceptions to these generalizations which is one reason why dogs are so cool............ :hello:
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And if you want to try something really different :chuckle: you could hunt with a standard poodle.
Ours loves waterfowl and upland. He points, flushes and retrieves. Best of all he did all of this almost completely naturally. You definately get noticed when hunting with them. ;)
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man you sound like a drahthaar is up your alley. look at my mast posts in and you can see mine has hunted since she stopped nursing. I got her from lee root in omak. lee is a good guy to buy from and really loves his dogs. mine was the runt of the litter and is a little machine, can't imagine what the big males are like.
PS, I have had 1 gsp.....did not do water. I have had 3 labs, the lastone I would put up against any lab alive as a upland dog. my draht has way more legs and lungs and does not get as hot.
they are not cheap, but they are bred to hunt and hunt some more.
call lee and get on a list.
john greer does deserve a lot of respect too. I nearly went with him, but I chose a dog that was always a pointer instead of one that was iffy. (no flies on his dogs at all) by iffy, pointers have been bred to point for a very very long time. pl's are relativly new.
how big is your yard? I have a 5 acre fenced place and my dog hunts it all. I think if you had a little yard you ha better be able to spend some time working out energy with any pointer.
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Hey Yummy, Thought I would give you more food for thought. GSP is bred to hunt more ground then the pointing lab. They should retrieve from water as well. The GSP however was not bred to sit in a duck blind well. They should be more intent on finding the next prize then waiting for you to find and shoot it before they get their part in the great game of hunting. By covering more ground and having more energy than some other breeds they find alot of birds during an upland hunt. If you find yourself in a duck blind in the middle of the night more often then a crp field under the fall sky you should probably find a breed that ends in retriever. But if like to kill upland birds and jump shoot ducks or the occasional duck hunt a breed ending in pointer could be the call. I own GSP's and love the breed, have owned a couple of different bloodlines none of which are great at the duck blind sitting thing, all lines I have had do water fine. I have a male right now that does the dock dog thing and can swim as fast as any lab, all you see is a wake. How do you like to hunt?? Dogs are great.
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I am a very lucky man 8)......and thats what it takes. You have to be lucky enough to get the dog who is willing to do both. If you would like to enhance your chances of gettting a waterfowling GSP GET A MALE. My Shorthair sits in a blind (like a 6 year old kid) moving a bit. BUT, in moderate cold weather, NOT freezing cold HE will sit there all day. LOVES the water and LOVES to retrieve, has retrieved a half dozen geese from the water, swimming in his days and countless ducks. He is almost 9 and has been in his prime for 6 years. He maybe has lost half a step........I will probably never have a dog as goood again. Sad to say but he is a pleasure to hunt behind. I think he likes to chuker hunt the best, thars good because so do I!!
PS- Pointing labs are a JOKE! Dont fall for it. About 20% of the labs out there can run all day long. And pointers pick up scent through the air, labs off the ground. show me a lab that will honor and back a point for 5 min. I will give you 100.00 right now!
Hows that for my first post!
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I have a GSP and he is great in the field, but not so much for the water. Also he does get cold kinda easily, but i have read about the german long hairs being both good pointers and retrieveres. I don't know much about them but maybe a little research can tell ya alot. Goog Luck
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Tasty,
I like GSPs, but our dogs are indoor and would have to live with all that energy in the house, a bit too much for me. I love my lab. He does not range as far as a GSP on upland birds, but his mellow personality makes it easier to see the behavior change when he gets "birdy".
To solve the pointing problem, I have trained him to sit by whistle even when he is hot on birds. When he gets too far out trailing birds, I blow a whistle and he will sit until I catch up then two peeps on the whistle and he goes again. Works well for me. He loves the water and even breaking ice he never seems to get too cold. The trade off for this is that the heat wears him out early in the season of upland. Good luck there are a lot of good options out there. With enough time and creativity in your training, you cant get it to work for your style of hunting.
Scud
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You're kinda in a tough spot.... you are really probably looking at making a comprise one way or the other. As has been mentioned before, GSPs are a real good dog and while some do swim well you're really bucking decades of breeding if you're trying to turn 1 into a waterfowl dog. Even then, they aren't really gonna tolerate the really cold temps like a retriever. If you are really wanting to hunt waterfowl then I don't think you'd be very happy w/ a GSP.
Kinda comes down to how much you value the pointing aspect. If you're willing to go w/out a pointing field dog then your options for water use open up a lot. You kinda need to prioritize your wants.... upland, pointing, waterfowl, cold weather, training, house manner, so on and so forth. 1 bit of advice that was given to me almost 30 years ago..... "remember, even if you hunt like crazy with the dog, it's gonna be a pet at least 90% of the time". Don't under estimate that factor in your choice.
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My GSP is almost two and he is a GREAT house dog. All dogs need to be taught manners and rules. My dog does not get on the furniture, rarely begs, and goes to his bed when told. I find it funny when I hear about how hyper GSP's are, outside yeah mine likes to go, he's got first gear and fifth gear. It's how you choose to raise and train your dog that will be the deciding factor on how that dog acts in the home and field. I have used my pup for waterfowl in december near the coast. He was fine the whole day BUT we were jump shooting ducks constantly moving from slough to slough, the running in between spots kept him plenty warm and willing to swim for retrieves. I would not use him for waterfowl in a situation where he would have to sit still after swimming at least late in the season. It's all about preference, what do you hunt, how often do you hunt, and what style of dog you prefer. I personally like more range(run) and lungs(endurance) for the chukar hills so a GSP fit my needs.
Jake
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I'm going to go with a lab because I hunt ducks more than upland game. I'm going to buy a pointing lab that's guaranteed to point (there is a trainer in Ellensburg who guarantees it), but even if he isn't a master pointer it's not that big of a deal because I'll be in a duck blind more often than out upland hunting. Just having a dog that will retrieve stuff that I shoot would be a major plus because it is a pain in the ass to chase down wounded birds. Especially pheasants...they run so damn fast...I think they run faster than I do haha.
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good choice!
