Post by: deerslyr on August 11, 2013, 04:44:49 PM
Tuned up my bow at the shop today because the cams were a bit out of timing. Up until this point it was shooting great, field points and broadheads were hitting exactly the same.
The guys at the shop messed with the timing and nock point. It seemed good, it wasnt shooting bullet holes through the paper but just a touch nock high. Shot it some more on the range and check it and the dam thing was out of timing again. re-timed it etc..
Now my broadheads shoot wayy right and low compared to field points. Given both my field points and broadhead groups are touching, there just about 8 inches off at 40 yards.
Ive lost a ton of confidence in just one session of shooting now. how concerned should I be if my broadheads dont hit exactly where my field points hit? Ive never had the problem but hear a lot of guys just sight there bows in differently for b-heads vs FPs.
Im afraid it might be time for a new bow but its late in the season now and im saving my money for a three month hunting trip im taking starting the first week of september.
Any one have any suggestions, help, confidence boosters for me? Im really frustrated, mad etc at the moment and kind of needed to vent
Post by: Fowlweather25 on August 11, 2013, 04:48:06 PM
Post by: deerslyr on August 11, 2013, 04:55:40 PM
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 11, 2013, 05:28:10 PM
If I can get a 3" grouping at 50 yards with broadheads, I'm going to call it a win situation. I will probably get flamed for that but I'm confident and KNOW I can do the deed.
Whaddya mean "no bow"? Sounds like the only thing wrong with it is that your FP and BH are a little different?
Post by: JLS on August 11, 2013, 05:38:02 PM
Don't panic, you have plenty of time. Do you need to find a new bow shop?
I would certainly try to fix it. If your BH are hitting that far from your FP something is not right and you aren't getting optimal arrow flight, which can/will affect penetration.
Post by: Austrian Hunter on August 11, 2013, 05:39:53 PM
Post by: hogslayer on August 12, 2013, 09:33:50 AM
Post by: norsepeak on August 12, 2013, 09:59:10 AM
Post by: huntnphool on August 12, 2013, 10:13:09 AM
I've never gotten my field points and broadheads to hit the same spot, not even close. Just dial in you broadheads and go hunt.To me its always been like target practice with bulk ammo and hunting with hand loads, once its go time the bulk ammo stays home.
Post by: Fowlweather25 on August 12, 2013, 10:27:48 AM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 12, 2013, 11:31:43 AM
Post by: huntnphool on August 12, 2013, 12:03:37 PM
I always make sure that my broadheads and fieldpoints hit the same place out to my max hunting range. It ensures perfect arrow flight. Also I only shoot each broadhead a couple times to make sure because they are expensive and I want to keep them sharp. Right now my field points and broadheads group together to 70 yards.I never understood why people continually try to "group" their arrows. If your bow is shooting where you want it then get a target with multiple aiming points and use each individual point for one arrow. I find you are less likely to ruin your arrows this way and get a better feel for how the bow/arrow you are using are going to react in slightly different angles/elevations as well. :twocents:
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 12:04:44 PM
:yeah: Especially when using broadheads.I always make sure that my broadheads and fieldpoints hit the same place out to my max hunting range. It ensures perfect arrow flight. Also I only shoot each broadhead a couple times to make sure because they are expensive and I want to keep them sharp. Right now my field points and broadheads group together to 70 yards.I never understood why people continually try to "group" their arrows. If your bow is shooting where you want it then get a target with multiple aiming points and use each individual point for one arrow. I find you are less likely to ruin your arrows this way and get a better feel for how the bow/arrow you are using are going to react in slightly different angles/elevations as well. :twocents:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 12, 2013, 12:23:34 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 12, 2013, 12:26:06 PM
Post by: JLS on August 12, 2013, 12:48:33 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize that shooting one broadhead and one fieldtip at a spot while tuning was too much. Ill be sure to check with huntwa before I shoot any more arrows to make sure I am doing it correctly.... this ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to archery or shooting arrows believe it or not.... :bash:
I've committed this archery faux pas many times myself. I did, however, learn that the correct sequence is BH first and then FP. Don't ask me how I figured this out :rolleyes:
Post by: smalldog on August 12, 2013, 12:55:25 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 12, 2013, 12:56:26 PM
Yes always broadhead first! :chuckle:Sorry, I didn't realize that shooting one broadhead and one fieldtip at a spot while tuning was too much. Ill be sure to check with huntwa before I shoot any more arrows to make sure I am doing it correctly.... this ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to archery or shooting arrows believe it or not.... :bash:
I've committed this archery faux pas many times myself. I did, however, learn that the correct sequence is BH first and then FP. Don't ask me how I figured this out :rolleyes:
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 01:05:07 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize that shooting one broadhead and one fieldtip at a spot while tuning was too much. Ill be sure to check with huntwa before I shoot any more arrows to make sure I am doing it correctly.... this ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to archery or shooting arrows believe it or not.... :bash:I was just referring to shooting broadheads at the same spot on the target. I don't think anyone was implying you didn't know what you were doing. I think it was more or less (or at least for me it was) a teaching lesson for new guys. Now the BH then the FP is a great idea. Never thought of that. :tup:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 12, 2013, 01:48:34 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 01:53:46 PM
If you can hit each circle back to back, your gold.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biggreentargets.com%2Fimages%2Fproducts%2Fbroad%2Fbroadhead-targets.jpg&hash=0c7f6d8596c10bee95081eb8e19d5286090e4e03)
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 12, 2013, 02:10:40 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:11:33 PM
Incredibly some archers I've met are just happy with hitting that block. :bash:lol. Poor fellers. Hope they're not out hunting. I want to be surgical.
Post by: h20hunter on August 12, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:12:47 PM
Works for me. I figure if I can hit the block at 20 yards I'm good to go. Minute of deer/elk is fine.I try to get within a 6 inch circle at 60+ yards. I'm usually happy with that. 60 yards with a small target is kinda rough IMO. Im still working on propper trigger techniques for my release.
Post by: h20hunter on August 12, 2013, 02:14:13 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 12, 2013, 02:17:13 PM
Bow/gun....same trigger..........line it up and give it a jerk!see that's what I'm talking about :bash:
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:17:13 PM
Bow/gun....same trigger..........line it up and give it a jerk!JERK? :yike: :bdid: :bdid:
Its all about the surprise of the shot, I've had too many problems with target panic from anticipating the shot and lost / broke arrows because of it.
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:17:48 PM
lol What have you been teaching this guy d? :chuckle:Bow/gun....same trigger..........line it up and give it a jerk!see that's what I'm talking about :bash:
Post by: h20hunter on August 12, 2013, 02:17:59 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:18:48 PM
No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 02:23:59 PM
There's a rivalry? I'm a bow hunter, my son is a rifle hunter. Should I not like him? :chuckle:No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
Post by: huntnphool on August 12, 2013, 02:29:08 PM
Sorry, I didn't realize that shooting one broadhead and one fieldtip at a spot while tuning was too much. Ill be sure to check with huntwa before I shoot any more arrows to make sure I am doing it correctly.... this ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to archery or shooting arrows believe it or not.... :bash::chuckle: Down Kujo! I was not accusing you, just using your comment as reference for the reply, you might check your blood pressure........WOW! :chuckle:
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 12, 2013, 02:30:32 PM
I haven't taught him anything he's to busy fishing and hanging out at the yuppie lodge.lol What have you been teaching this guy d? :chuckle:Bow/gun....same trigger..........line it up and give it a jerk!see that's what I'm talking about :bash:
Post by: swwaoutdoorsman on August 12, 2013, 02:37:17 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:44:16 PM
Noo not at all lol. I just mean that some bow hunters don't like rifle hunters. Its a whole different kind of hunting.There's a rivalry? I'm a bow hunter, my son is a rifle hunter. Should I not like him? :chuckle:No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
I could care less, meat is meat!
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 02:45:49 PM
Lots of interesting views.... All I have to add is with my first bow I shot the same arrow with a heavier broad head 125 gr. my new bow doesn't shoot as fast and I shoot 100 gr. broad head. With the first my broad heads were 3" different than my FP. So I just adjusted my sight window before hunting season. Worked fine. With my new bow BH's & FP's shoot the same. Makes it simple, but in the end they both killed deer and elk just the same. I would just sight in your BH and shoot then out to your max distance to see if they continue to goup and fly good. Wouldn't want to mess with it more and really mess it before seasonYeah, my Savora BH's shoot just as accurately as my field points. I love them.
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 02:58:28 PM
Darn it!! I thought I had a good reason to kick his butt outta the house! :chuckle:Noo not at all lol. I just mean that some bow hunters don't like rifle hunters. Its a whole different kind of hunting.There's a rivalry? I'm a bow hunter, my son is a rifle hunter. Should I not like him? :chuckle:No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
I could care less, meat is meat!
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 03:02:56 PM
You COULD :chuckle: Tell him to stop hiding 200 yards away from the animal in his flanel and blue jeans and to get closer to them things! (Not meant to offend anyone)Darn it!! I thought I had a good reason to kick his butt outta the house! :chuckle:Noo not at all lol. I just mean that some bow hunters don't like rifle hunters. Its a whole different kind of hunting.There's a rivalry? I'm a bow hunter, my son is a rifle hunter. Should I not like him? :chuckle:No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
I could care less, meat is meat!
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 03:23:52 PM
Dont forget drinking coffee and smoking a cigarette. Oh wait hes only 11 nevermind. :chuckle:You COULD :chuckle: Tell him to stop hiding 200 yards away from the animal in his flanel and blue jeans and to get closer to them things! (Not meant to offend anyone)Darn it!! I thought I had a good reason to kick his butt outta the house! :chuckle:Noo not at all lol. I just mean that some bow hunters don't like rifle hunters. Its a whole different kind of hunting.There's a rivalry? I'm a bow hunter, my son is a rifle hunter. Should I not like him? :chuckle:No no no.....you just pull the bow back, put a pin on the critter and let 'er fly!
:dunno:
You big knucklehead. This is where bow hunter/rifle hunter rivalry come from. . :chuckle:
I could care less, meat is meat!
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 12, 2013, 03:26:28 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 12, 2013, 03:34:09 PM
Tuned up my bow at the shop today because the cams were a bit out of timing. Up until this point it was shooting great, field points and broadheads were hitting exactly the same.
If your setup was shooting and grouping both field points and broadheads together what made you believe the cam timing was off? When my bows are shooting perfect I tend to leave them the heck alone ;)
With that said if the bow/arrow combination was right before it should be rather easy to get it back. Since it was perfect before you know there is no reason to move the rest in or out. It will all be timing and nockset location.
I find that 90% of shops can't get tuning or timing set worth a crap. Especially this time of year! Don't let it get you down. It should be a simple fix and you will be out killing critters in no time.
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 03:37:05 PM
Smossy you crack me up. RadSav is right, you need to get out and get a red arrow!What are you talking about?
Post by: h20hunter on August 12, 2013, 03:53:22 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 03:54:30 PM
Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Hes nockin me for talking about KE and needing to get my arrow bloody, but what does that have to do with this thread? and Whats so funny?
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 03:56:18 PM
Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Or did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, hmm.......
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 12, 2013, 03:58:30 PM
Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Hes nockin me for talking about KE and needing to get my arrow bloody, but what does that have to do with this thread? and Whats so funny?
Not really knocking you buddy, it's all in good nature. Don't take anything too seriously. :tup:
H20 Hunter you are hilarious. I'm painting my arrows red as soon as I get home :chuckle:
Post by: Austrian Hunter on August 12, 2013, 03:58:48 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 04:00:53 PM
I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 04:01:51 PM
Guess I just don't understand.Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Hes nockin me for talking about KE and needing to get my arrow bloody, but what does that have to do with this thread? and Whats so funny?
Not really knocking you buddy, it's all in good nature. Don't take anything too seriously. :tup:
H20 Hunter you are hilarious. I'm painting my arrows red as soon as I get home :chuckle:
Post by: Austrian Hunter on August 12, 2013, 04:03:52 PM
I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
I buy the Cabela's Broadhead target for $60 it lasts me about two-three months, pending of course how much I shoot. And I don't shoot 3-D or any competition.
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 04:08:37 PM
Get the 18-1 rhinehart target. They say if you completely go through it in under a year, You get a replacement absolutely free.I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
I buy the Cabela's Broadhead target for $60 it lasts me about two-three months, pending of course how much I shoot. And I don't shoot 3-D or any competition.
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 04:09:57 PM
That's the next target I plan to buy.Get the 18-1 rhinehart target. They say if you completely go through it in under a year, You get a replacement absolutely free.I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
I buy the Cabela's Broadhead target for $60 it lasts me about two-three months, pending of course how much I shoot. And I don't shoot 3-D or any competition.
Post by: Austrian Hunter on August 12, 2013, 04:10:32 PM
Get the 18-1 rhinehart target. They say if you completely go through it in under a year, You get a replacement absolutely free.I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
I buy the Cabela's Broadhead target for $60 it lasts me about two-three months, pending of course how much I shoot. And I don't shoot 3-D or any competition.
Wow, that would be worth it. I have to look into this, thanks!! The only problem I had with other targets was the arrow removal, man after a few I think my shoulder and arms are falling off :yike:
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 04:12:45 PM
Another thing that targets supposed to be infamous for, Its an easy pull target. For Broadheads and FP, Also has self healing properties so your holes turn into virtually nothing. That what they say it lasts so long. Rhinehart makes some really awesome targets. Theyre alittle spendy but I think they're worth it.Get the 18-1 rhinehart target. They say if you completely go through it in under a year, You get a replacement absolutely free.I don't shoot field tips at all, I have my arrows set with my Broadheads, after I shoot I pick the ones (arrows) I have best results with and only change the Broadheads to a brand new one for hunting.Man you must go thru alot of targets. :yike:
I buy the Cabela's Broadhead target for $60 it lasts me about two-three months, pending of course how much I shoot. And I don't shoot 3-D or any competition.
Wow, that would be worth it. I have to look into this, thanks!! The only problem I had with other targets was the arrow removal, man after a few I think my shoulder and arms are falling off :yike:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frinehart3d.com%2Fimages%2F18-1-guarantee-large.gif&hash=255bdfb63b7642728ac22c86d854afabb38f73f2)
Post by: Fowlweather25 on August 12, 2013, 04:14:04 PM
Im curious what a lot of this has to do with the OP? :dunno:Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Hes nockin me for talking about KE and needing to get my arrow bloody, but what does that have to do with this thread? and Whats so funny?
Post by: Jonathan_S on August 12, 2013, 04:16:13 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on August 12, 2013, 04:17:41 PM
The OP got quite a few responses and varying opinions from helpful people. This is Hunt Wa after all. Can you ever expect a thread to stay on track for 3 pages :dunno:Look squirrel
Post by: Fowlweather25 on August 12, 2013, 04:18:09 PM
Post by: Smossy on August 12, 2013, 04:18:21 PM
:hunt2:The OP got quite a few responses and varying opinions from helpful people. This is Hunt Wa after all. Can you ever expect a thread to stay on track for 3 pages :dunno:Look squirrel
Post by: Austrian Hunter on August 12, 2013, 04:35:36 PM
The OP got quite a few responses and varying opinions from helpful people. This is Hunt Wa after all. Can you ever expect a thread to stay on track for 3 pages :dunno:Look squirrel
:hunter:
or better yet
:archery_smiley: :pee:
Post by: deerslyr on August 12, 2013, 05:52:08 PM
Im curious what a lot of this has to do with the OP? :dunno:Red arrows go 10% faster and have an increased KE of 8%.......something to do with light refraction and where red is on the color spectrum. Trust me, I once played a doctor on TV.Hes nockin me for talking about KE and needing to get my arrow bloody, but what does that have to do with this thread? and Whats so funny?
Just got off from work and this is what I come back too...ugg :chuckle:
Thanks for all of the helpful advice from the people that tried. I went out and shot last night in a field. Just me, the bow, and the target...Not me, a world champ, everyone else in the shop and the target lol A lot of it had to do with fatigue and frustration. My FPs were hitting an inch high at 20 and 6 inches high at 60 while my BHs were dead on. I changed nothing but my attitude, I think Chris (the world champ) new this but did everything he could to try and help me, hes a good friend. Split a couple of arrows out to 60 with BHs, it helped rebuild my confidence :chuckle: So I think just a little fine tuning to my rest and they will be about perfect. I will say the bow is grouping incredibly at to 60. Fletching touching most every group. Time to go back to shooting at one spot just like before.
Post by: KB88 on August 12, 2013, 08:20:11 PM
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460&highlight=broadhead+tuning+day (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=539460&highlight=broadhead+tuning+day)
Post by: gonehuntin68 on August 13, 2013, 08:57:02 PM
I've never gotten my field points and broadheads to hit the same spot, not even close. Just dial in you broadheads and go hunt.
:yeah:
Post by: Maybee-R on August 14, 2013, 09:57:37 AM
Its more forgiving.
Think of the wind. if your arrow comes out a little left to right and the wind is slightly blowing left to right you might travel 1 inch for every 5 to 10mph of wind in 10 yards.
If the wind is blowing right to left your arrow might drift 3 inches same speed and distance.
Not to mention the loss of penetration from an poorly tuned set up.
You already loose penetration from directional change when your arrow travels through flesh. why put the breaks on from the bow?
Sight in the bow with field points. then shoot your broad-head tip arrow.
If its hitting left adjust the rest a tad to the right. re sight in the field points. then re check the broad-head.
Eventually you can get it perfectly alined and the most forgiving tune you can get. Also do the same up or down. But always re sight in the field points and do your rest adjusting for the broad-heads. Dont be afraid to try going backwards with troublesome set ups. Archery is a game of opposites sometimes. JMO!
Post by: et1702 on August 14, 2013, 10:26:11 AM
This thread scares me. spend the time to aline the broad-heads with your field points.
Its more forgiving.
Think of the wind. if your arrow comes out a little left to right and the wind is slightly blowing left to right you might travel 1 inch for every 5 to 10mph of wind in 10 yards.
If the wind is blowing right to left your arrow might drift 3 inches same speed and distance.
Not to mention the loss of penetration from an poorly tuned set up.
You already loose penetration from directional change when your arrow travels through flesh. why put the breaks on from the bow?
Sight in the bow with field points. then shoot your broad-head tip arrow.
If its hitting left adjust the rest a tad to the right. re sight in the field points. then re check the broad-head.
Eventually you can get it perfectly alined and the most forgiving tune you can get. Also do the same up or down. But always re sight in the field points and do your rest adjusting for the broad-heads. Dont be afraid to try going backwards with troublesome set ups. Archery is a game of opposites sometimes. JMO!
Agree 110%. I always, always, always tune for same point of impact. Not really that hard to do and ensures proper set up, excellent penetration, etc., etc.
ET
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 14, 2013, 11:15:28 AM