Post by: Wilderness Addict on August 15, 2013, 05:24:15 PM
Post by: Yankee on August 15, 2013, 05:29:09 PM
Post by: grundy53 on August 15, 2013, 05:30:16 PM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: jackelope on August 15, 2013, 05:33:25 PM
Yes it's legal. It's not considered baiting unless you move the gut pile to another location. It's fine if it's where you gutted the animal.
sent from my typewriter
Source? Not that I doubt you...just curious if it's on paper somewhere.
Post by: Johnb317 on August 15, 2013, 05:40:20 PM
Post by: grundy53 on August 15, 2013, 05:57:17 PM
Yes it's legal. It's not considered baiting unless you move the gut pile to another location. It's fine if it's where you gutted the animal.
sent from my typewriter
Source? Not that I doubt you...just curious if it's on paper somewhere.
No source. But I pretty much ask every game warden I come across and that's been their answer every time. I'm sure someone will find a source. Hopefully :)
sent from my typewriter
Post by: Bango skank on July 04, 2015, 09:09:23 PM
Yes it's legal. It's not considered baiting unless you move the gut pile to another location. It's fine if it's where you gutted the animal.
sent from my typewriter
Source? Not that I doubt you...just curious if it's on paper somewhere.
Figured i would bump this post. Anybody have a source on this yet?
Post by: billythekidrock on July 04, 2015, 09:19:18 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 04, 2015, 10:37:47 PM
d) As used in this subsection, "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.
Post by: Bigshooter on July 04, 2015, 10:42:06 PM
apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.245
d) As used in this subsection, "bait" means a substance placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, scattered, or otherwise used for the purpose of attracting black bears to an area where one or more persons hunt or intend to hunt them.
So does that mean you can hunt over gut piles? :dunno:
Post by: MLBowhunting on July 04, 2015, 10:45:43 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 04, 2015, 10:46:53 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 04, 2015, 10:53:32 PM
There are many things that are legal that are not on paper,Just as has been said on here numerous times if its not in the regs or the RCW its legal.Most of the time by the members that have been on this forum longer than most its usually condescending the way its said.Example its not legal to hunt big game in wa. with a caliber less than .24,It does not say in specifics that a .30 cal is legal.Yes it's legal. It's not considered baiting unless you move the gut pile to another location. It's fine if it's where you gutted the animal.
sent from my typewriter
Source? Not that I doubt you...just curious if it's on paper somewhere.
Post by: Bango skank on July 04, 2015, 11:48:00 PM
Yes if you didnt place the gut pile there you can hunt over it.Example:I shoot an elk today,I gut it out leave the pile you come in tomorrow you can hunt right over my gut pile.
Im just not buying the logic that its okay just because its somebody elses gut pile. By that logic you could throw away a pile of donuts and then i could come shoot a bear on it, since i didnt put them there. Your logic would basically make it legal for guides to set up bait piles for bears.
Post by: stevemiller on July 04, 2015, 11:49:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 04, 2015, 11:53:26 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 04, 2015, 11:54:50 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 04, 2015, 11:59:44 PM
Post by: Ghost Hunter on July 05, 2015, 05:26:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 05, 2015, 05:29:09 PM
;) :dunno:Was the animal killed and gutted with the intent of baiting bear?
If so, keep your mouth shut. :tup:
Post by: jdb on July 05, 2015, 05:50:34 PM
Kidding a little here but not completely,Notice how our known LEO on the forum dont come out and say its not legal,Because its legal.When something is illegal they reply quickly lol.or because they don't know. I would never trust that wdfw officers know the law.
Post by: Bob33 on July 05, 2015, 05:55:18 PM
..or that WDFW officers don't post on here regarding legal issues.Kidding a little here but not completely,Notice how our known LEO on the forum dont come out and say its not legal,Because its legal.When something is illegal they reply quickly lol.or because they don't know. I would never trust that wdfw officers know the law.
Post by: stevemiller on July 05, 2015, 08:07:02 PM
bigtex does.When its illegal.When its not illegal not so much. :twocents:..or that WDFW officers don't post on here regarding legal issues.Kidding a little here but not completely,Notice how our known LEO on the forum dont come out and say its not legal,Because its legal.When something is illegal they reply quickly lol.or because they don't know. I would never trust that wdfw officers know the law.
Post by: Bob33 on July 05, 2015, 08:16:36 PM
There are several LEOs from different agencies that visit and post on this site. Unless one has explicitly stated so, it would be a mistake to assume which agency any one of them represents. I have not seen any that have publicly done so.bigtex does.When its illegal.When its not illegal not so much. :twocents:..or that WDFW officers don't post on here regarding legal issues.Kidding a little here but not completely,Notice how our known LEO on the forum dont come out and say its not legal,Because its legal.When something is illegal they reply quickly lol.or because they don't know. I would never trust that wdfw officers know the law.
Furthermore, it would be not only unwise but against departmental policy for any of them to give legal advice on a public forum such as this while acting as a known representative.
Post by: stevemiller on July 05, 2015, 08:28:37 PM
To end this on a positive note why dont you ask bigtex his opinion on this question?
Post by: Bob33 on July 05, 2015, 08:38:31 PM
confused here bob,Who said any one from a specific agency.By implication, you.
..or that WDFW officers don't post on here regarding legal issues.bigtex does.When its illegal.When its not illegal not so much. :twocents:
Post by: stevemiller on July 05, 2015, 08:40:17 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 05, 2015, 08:44:54 PM
here,Umm sorry but I think some of the wdfw personnel do give legal input here.Just saying...or that WDFW officers don't post on here regarding legal issues.Kidding a little here but not completely,Notice how our known LEO on the forum dont come out and say its not legal,Because its legal.When something is illegal they reply quickly lol.or because they don't know. I would never trust that wdfw officers know the law.
Post by: Lucky1 on July 05, 2015, 09:30:14 PM
Post by: dune on July 06, 2015, 06:34:12 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 09:22:10 AM
:yeah: I wish people would quit bringing attention to regs that just dont need the attention.
I would much rather bring attention to it before the fact. Even if you're eventually found innocent of baiting, you must still hire representation for proceedings against you. That would easily equal the amount of fines for baiting. I intend to ask the enforcement officer for the area in which I hunt. Goode discussion and I'll reply back with his answer.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 09:56:44 AM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 10:01:19 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 10:45:58 AM
The regs are written in such a way to cover what they were really after while at the same time protecting some of how it really is done without showing the non hunting community other ways around it.That goes for almost all laws by the way.Every law known has a defense and this is how it is done,Without it we dont have the rights given to us. :twocents: The wording in I-594 shows us that one pretty clear,Thats exactly why they had it written that way,To cover as many bases as they could at the same time.
Like I said, if the regs cover you and you're still charged, it's going to cost you a lot of money to clear your name. It's a lot easier and less costly to talk with your local gamie first and find out his slant. As far as discussing it on HuntWA - that's what this forum is for.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 10:49:27 AM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 10:51:06 AM
Post by: bobcat on July 06, 2015, 11:32:24 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 11:35:02 AM
This is something that doesn't need clarification. The law is clear and I think it's apparent to almost everyone who reads the law that a gut pile is not considered bait when hunting bears. I wouldn't bother wasting a game wardens time asking about it.
Well, maybe you wouldn't. It's what they're paid to do - interpret the law and apply it. Personally, this is the first time it's occurred to me to hunt over one of my gut piles. I'm absolutely going to check it out.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on July 06, 2015, 11:36:39 AM
This is something that doesn't need clarification. The law is clear and I think it's apparent to almost everyone who reads the law that a gut pile is not considered bait when hunting bears. I wouldn't bother wasting a game wardens time asking about it.
Agreed. But that won't necessarily stop someone from being wrongly charged, even if Pman's precautions are taken. Still, it is a worthy discussion to have here.
Post by: blindluck on July 06, 2015, 11:51:03 AM
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 11:53:23 AM
Now, If you moved your deer prior to gutting, did the knife work, and just left it be............
I have and will hunt over gut piles. I'd like to pop a yote or two, and yes, I would shoot a bear over a gut pile.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 12:28:36 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 12:34:04 PM
pman are you or were you a HE instructor?T was under the impression that you were. :dunno:
Yes I am.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 12:41:43 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 12:44:55 PM
Thats what I thought,Not trying to pick or anything sir but To bad you dont already know the answer to this,You know since your educating people on it and all.I would think that since you are a HE instructor by the time I got done typing this right now you would have already called some LEO friend of yours and got the answer,Thanks.I should be able to read that answer you got in oh maybe 10 min. at least. :dunno:
Why do you insist on calling everybody out on everything all the time?
He's a volunteer hunter's ed instructor. Not a law enforcement officer and not the guy who wrote the laws.
Why don't you know the answer? You're a hunter. You should know the law too.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 12:50:05 PM
READ MY POST IN THIS THREAD,I DO KNOW :bash:
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 12:52:37 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 12:54:38 PM
Hey if your going to teach tomorrows hunter know what your teaching.To answer your question as to why.Because i can thats why.This has been a law since 1996 nothing new.What was it you said to me once?Oh yeah if your going to get into a conversation with people be prepared when someone disagrees with what you say and be prepared for people to call you out on it.Jackelope would you ask me that same question if I had been a member since 2007?
Absolutely, if it looked to me like you were calling people out and starting trouble I would. What would the date you joined the forum have to do with anything?
Hunter's ed instructors teach general safety and the basics to hunting. It is up to the individual to know the rules set forth.
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 12:58:11 PM
Hey if your going to teach tomorrows hunter know what your teaching.To answer your question as to why.Because i can thats why.This has been a law since 1996 nothing new.What was it you said to me once?Oh yeah if your going to get into a conversation with people be prepared when someone disagrees with what you say and be prepared for people to call you out on it.Jackelope would you ask me that same question if I had been a member since 2007?
READ MY POST IN THIS THREAD,I DO KNOW :bash:
This is reply #48 in this thread. 16 of the posts are yours. That's a lot. It looks like you're questioning everything everyone says. Starting trouble, calling people out or otherwise questioning whatever someone says all the time. It's your M.O.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:00:05 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 01:08:34 PM
Thats what I thought,Not trying to pick or anything sir but To bad you dont already know the answer to this,You know since your educating people on it and all.I would think that since you are a HE instructor by the time I got done typing this right now you would have already called some LEO friend of yours and got the answer,Thanks.I should be able to read that answer you got in oh maybe 10 min. at least. :dunno:
I'll let you in on a few things. First, Hunter Education instructors don't have any special access to WDFW LE, with perhaps a single exception - asking them to participate in HE classes. I don't have any "LEO Friends" in the WDFW, as you put it, and as an instructor, have no access to information that you don't have access to. I am a Master Hunter. Being such, I'm unwilling to do things in the woods which may be unlawful, unethical, or even interpreted as such.
Update: I just got off the phone with the LE for the area I hunt. He interprets it as baiting. Once you gut the deer and "expose" the gutpile, and then purposely hunt over it for bear, you're baiting bear. I won't be using this technique in the woods. Stevemiller, you might consider being nicer to your fellow hunters. Sometimes, people might take the things you say as being a jerk. Not me, of course, but some. Have a nice day.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:10:06 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:14:49 PM
everything?Everyone really?Seems a bunch on here agree with me thanks though.You are a mod bully,you pick at me every chance you get.Im done with you.
OK. The cool thing about the internet is that it's just like TV and radio. If it's so bad you can turn it off. In other words, if it's as bad as you continually say it is, you can just leave. Then you won't be bothered by mod bullies like me.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:15:50 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:17:11 PM
same for you,I didnt ask you to call me out but you did.I think your still miffed because I told you there are lots of things that are legal that are not on paper.The only bad about this site is people like you that look for people to pick at.You do it to me and others but its ok.YOU ARE A BULLY AND IM NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT SAYS SO,just the one that will tell you.everything?Everyone really?Seems a bunch on here agree with me thanks though.You are a mod bully,you pick at me every chance you get.Im done with you.
OK. The cool thing about the internet is that it's just like TV and radio. If it's so bad you can turn it off. In other words, if it's as bad as you continually say it is, you can just leave. Then you won't be bothered by mod bullies like me.
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:18:26 PM
I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:18:58 PM
same for you,I didnt ask you to call me out but you did.I think your still miffed because I told you there are lots of things that are legal that are not on paper.everything?Everyone really?Seems a bunch on here agree with me thanks though.You are a mod bully,you pick at me every chance you get.Im done with you.
OK. The cool thing about the internet is that it's just like TV and radio. If it's so bad you can turn it off. In other words, if it's as bad as you continually say it is, you can just leave. Then you won't be bothered by mod bullies like me.
Not miffed at anything you said to me, Steve.
Post by: Bob33 on July 06, 2015, 01:19:59 PM
The difference in most instances is intent. You put the donuts out with the explicit intent of attractng a bear.I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 01:20:24 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:21:14 PM
ok. :yeah: To me theres not many things out there that are as natural as hunting.Whether it be man hunting or OTHER PREDITORS hunting.If its down and gutted the guts are there naturally and not baiting.I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 06, 2015, 01:23:11 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:25:59 PM
Well, what a fun discussion it's been. Have a nice day all.
:chuckle:
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:26:28 PM
The difference in most instances is intent. You put the donuts out with the explicit intent of attractng a bear.I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
The intent is the grey area I suppose.
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 01:30:40 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:33:17 PM
If i picked said berries put them in a pile somewhere then yes baiting.
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 01:40:50 PM
Post by: stevemiller on July 06, 2015, 01:41:22 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 06, 2015, 01:44:54 PM
Huh?
Post by: h20hunter on July 06, 2015, 01:49:52 PM
Post by: lokidog on July 06, 2015, 03:07:53 PM
The difference in most instances is intent. You put the donuts out with the explicit intent of attractng a bear.I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
This has always been my understanding when talking with LEOs in the past about this subject.
Post by: grundy53 on July 06, 2015, 03:24:46 PM
:yeah: I've asked a few different wardens in the past and they all said it isn't baiting unless you move the gut pile.The difference in most instances is intent. You put the donuts out with the explicit intent of attractng a bear.I just got off the phone with the LEO in my area and he said its not baiting if you gut it there and dont move the pile to a diff. location.So not baiting.
Yet another LE officer says it is. So which is it....(general question, not directed at anyone specific)
My take on it has always been that it is baiting. It wasn't naturally put there. You kill a deer, you gut it(put the gutpile there) then return to hunt over it. What's the difference between you putting a bag of donuts on the ground or you gut the deer and the guts end up on the ground? The gutpile was not naturally put there.
This has always been my understanding when talking with LEOs in the past about this subject.
Post by: Bill W on July 06, 2015, 03:52:50 PM
Post by: lokidog on July 06, 2015, 11:10:09 PM
Post by: Romulus1297 on July 06, 2015, 11:53:06 PM
Post by: 6.8mmARHunter on July 08, 2015, 10:37:04 PM
Why on earth is there even a debate? Why can't someone inquire with WDFW and get and official response (in writing) and be done with it all?
sam
Post by: h2ofowlr on July 08, 2015, 10:47:49 PM
It's no different than finding a dead animal in the woods and setting up nearby. The dead animal or gut pile is naturally occurring and not deliberately placed by a hunter.
Are blackberries, blue berries and huckleberries any different? If you set up on ripe patch with sign in a few year old cut, you will see a bear.
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on July 08, 2015, 11:02:10 PM
Late to the party here...
Why on earth is there even a debate? Why can't someone inquire with WDFW and get and official response (in writing) and be done with it all?
sam
'Cause dat ain't how we roll on Hunt Wa!!!!
Post by: Fl0und3rz on July 09, 2015, 12:24:12 AM
Late to the party here...
Why on earth is there even a debate? Why can't someone inquire with WDFW and get and official response (in writing) and be done with it all?
sam
'Cause dat ain't how we roll on Hunt Wa!!!!
:chuckle: