Post by: bassquatch on August 27, 2013, 09:46:24 PM
On the first target after the first 3 shots I adjusted the scope UP four 1/4" clicks and right four 1/4"clicks. The next three shots were up but did not move right? I adjusted 2 more clicks right for the next 3 shots.
On the second target, the gun had rested and cooled for about 10-12 minutes. The first 2 shots were dead nuts! The 3rd shot was good but the 4th went high left? You can see the rest in the pics hopefully?
My question is: shouldn't this thing be adjusting better? It's not bad, but I expect better out of a scoped rifle braced with a rest and sand bags?! I wouldn't have a problem shooting an animal at 100yds as is, but I would hesitate to shoot farther?! 200-300 yards and I don't think I trust the shot at this point? Am I being over zealous? The third pic is what I did with an AR-15 at 60 yards with iron sights....
I'm perplexed. It's my 13 year old Remington Model 700BDL with a same age Leupold VXII 3x9, I was shooting at 100 yards with the ammo in the 4th pic. :dunno:
Your opinions as always are welcomed and appreciated :tup:
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 27, 2013, 10:05:21 PM
Post by: bassquatch on August 27, 2013, 10:07:32 PM
Thanks for the input :tup:
Post by: Curly on August 27, 2013, 10:22:19 PM
The red in the second target is really good, then one of the yellow is right in with the red. Maybe the barrel was starting to warm a bit? Have you had good luck with 180gr Fed Premium w/ Partitions before?
Post by: j_h_nimrod on August 27, 2013, 10:26:03 PM
Good luck getting it dialed in.
Post by: Curly on August 27, 2013, 10:45:13 PM
Or Winchester Power Point 180gr Link (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197592/winchester-super-x-ammunition-30-06-springfield-180-grain-power-point-box-of-20) (Only $20)
You don't have a ton of choices these days with the ammo shortages, but those two choices are available at Midway and are fairly reasonable for today's prices. I know Remington's shoot well in some rifles and Winchester's are good in others. Might be worth a try to see if one of them.
The bonded bullet will hold up better than the Power Point, but even the Power Point should be fine for any game at 30-06 velocities. :twocents:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on August 28, 2013, 06:49:32 AM
Post by: Rob on August 28, 2013, 08:46:19 AM
Honestly if you could slide a dollar bill down prior to shooting, butnot after, it sounds like the barrel is changing shape after shooting.
you could always put another scope on it and see if that changes anything before you mail it in to leupold.
What does the crown look like?
Post by: thinkingman on August 28, 2013, 10:22:26 AM
The second pic, after the target change...your cold-bore shots are perfect, and that's what puts animals down.
Honestly, a R700/Leupold/Partition group shouldn't look any better than those.
Post by: Easy-E on August 28, 2013, 10:57:14 AM
A couple of comments:
Most people shoot 3-shot groups. I prefer 5-shot groups as I believe they are more statistically valid and help remove the pure, dumb-a$$ luck factor for making a mickey-mouse shaped key-hole and calling it good.
However, if I know i have a load that groups well in my rifle, I much prefer a 1-shot zero on my rifles. This was especially true on my .300 RUM when even my handloads were costing me $1 apiece and I didn't want to spend a wad of cash to futz around zeroing the gun.
I'm pretty new to this forum so maybe someone's already posted somewhere about how to do a 1-shot zero, but the premise is this: set up your target, shoot one shot. Aim your crosshairs at the bullet hole in the target, and hold the rifle steady. Then have a buddy adjust your scope (while you're holding it steady) until the crosshairs move to where you originally aimed. Shoot a second round to confirm that you are now hitting the point of aim. Now go shoot groups if you want.
This removes the problem of your scope clicks not adding up to the physical measurement of relocating your groups on the target.
IMHO, you should be uncomfortable shooting at 300 yards if you've only zeroed at 100. I've been surprised at how my groups move at 300 compared to what I expected based on a ballistics chart and zeroing at 100. Do the 1-shot zero at 300 yards with a huge peice of cardboard; then shoot a 5-shot group. If you're successful grouping at 300, odds are you'll be money at 100. :twocents:
Post by: boneaddict on August 28, 2013, 11:02:20 AM
Post by: Curly on August 28, 2013, 11:23:19 AM
Here is a link to a target that is better for what you're trying to do:
http://www.wallacebrookarchery.com/100%20Yard%20Rifle%20Target2.jpg (http://www.wallacebrookarchery.com/100%20Yard%20Rifle%20Target2.jpg)
Post by: Crunchy on August 28, 2013, 11:30:35 AM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on August 28, 2013, 11:51:36 AM
Post by: bobcat on August 28, 2013, 11:57:27 AM
Post by: bassquatch on August 28, 2013, 01:30:47 PM
This was my first and still only hunting rifle and I bought it from Wade's and they mounted everything at the time and bore sighted it. To be honest I have not messed with it since. My next question would be where's a GOOD gunsmith near the Arlington area? I would like to get the thing gone through and maybe upgrade the mounts and rings? At the very least just have it taken down, looked through, reassembled and re bore sighted. Then I could head back to the range with various 165gr and see if things improve?
I have heard of the 1 shot zero but do not have a place to shoot 300 yards? Kenmore's range has a 300 yard area but I believe it's members only? Was my first time there...
I know you said your scope mounts are good, but did you lap the rings, and if not do you know your scope is mounted perfectly straight? If it's got a slight bend in it, that will cause your adjustments to not work as they should. With my Leupold VX-III, when I move it 1 click right, the point of impact moves 1/4 inch right, and when I move it 1 click up, the point of impact moves 1/4 inch up, just as it should. If your scope isn't doing that, then I'd suspect something wrong with the scope or something wrong in the way it's mounted.
That's what I would expect as well?
I don't think it's too bad. It is factory ammo after all. With handloads, you could probably tighten up the groups and be happier, but you may just have to experiment with different factory loads til you find one that your rifle really likes.
The red in the second target is really good, then one of the yellow is right in with the red. Maybe the barrel was starting to warm a bit? Have you had good luck with 180gr Fed Premium w/ Partitions before?
That's what I have been using the most and have had good luck with them. I was concerned about the barrel warming issue.
Those shots are fine.
The second pic, after the target change...your cold-bore shots are perfect, and that's what puts animals down.
Honestly, a R700/Leupold/Partition group shouldn't look any better than those.
Thanks! I'm starting to think the cold bore shots are fine but I'm having an issue with barrel contact and possibly pressure points once it's warm? I will get there earlier next time and try to wait even longer between rounds.
Thanks again everyone.
Post by: wastickslinger on August 28, 2013, 01:53:47 PM
Post by: bassquatch on August 28, 2013, 03:32:29 PM
You would have saved me a lot of reading if you had first said you were shooting a 30-06. I would have then looked at the pics and said it doesnt get much better that that. :chuckle: Sorry Im a 7mm fan and I had to say it.
No worries, I expected a couple jabs :chuckle:
Post by: Easy-E on August 28, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
Those shots are fine.
The second pic, after the target change...your cold-bore shots are perfect, and that's what puts animals down.
Honestly, a R700/Leupold/Partition group shouldn't look any better than those.
Thanks! I'm starting to think the cold bore shots are fine but I'm having an issue with barrel contact and possibly pressure points once it's warm? I will get there earlier next time and try to wait even longer between rounds.
Thanks again everyone.
[/quote]
I am convinced that the sporter barrels on most off-the-shelf hunting rifles are susceptible to barrel heating issues. I had a Remington 721 in .30-06 that would only shoot 2.5" groups; so I ran a dollar bill under the barrel and found where it was touching; and sanded it down. I floated the barrel thinking that would fix it (floated barrels are allegedly supposed be better than a touching barrel, right?!?) and things got much worse. I couldn't shoot any kind of a group with that rifle after floating it. :bash: I had to shim the front end to get it shooting half way decent again. Some of the rifle manufacturers design those sporter barrels to have a slight upward pressure at the stock fore end to "help" with accuracy. I don't remember if the Rem 700 xDL have a fore end pressure point or not, but I wouldn't assume that knocking of some of the bedding material will tighten up your groups. A good smithy giving it a once-over is probably a good idea.
Cheers!
Post by: Easy-E on August 30, 2013, 01:24:06 PM
...I cleaned the barrel before each target ....
I was giving this a little more thought. Barrel cleaning can make a difference in accuracy as well. For example, if some gun oil is left in the bore, it could cause a different trajectory than a dry barrel. And if you're only cleaning with a powder solvent, you might have a copper fouling problem. One night after scrubbing my barrel "clean", I ran a swab with janitorial ammonia down the barrel and couldn't believe the amount of blue goo that came out...
Just some thoughts.
Cheers!
Post by: bassquatch on August 30, 2013, 03:00:37 PM
...I cleaned the barrel before each target ....
I was giving this a little more thought. Barrel cleaning can make a difference in accuracy as well. For example, if some gun oil is left in the bore, it could cause a different trajectory than a dry barrel. And if you're only cleaning with a powder solvent, you might have a copper fouling problem. One night after scrubbing my barrel "clean", I ran a swab with janitorial ammonia down the barrel and couldn't believe the amount of blue goo that came out...
Just some thoughts.
Cheers!
Good advice! I only ran a bore snake through twice between targets. I'm going to really tear it down and clean it this weekend! Still looking for a reputable gunsmith in decent driving distance?
I'm going to hit the range one more time with 4 different types of 165gr and the targets that were suggested and go from there. I was contimplating replacing the stock but I want to leave that to my son when he gets it!
Post by: LEN on August 30, 2013, 08:09:02 PM
Post by: bassquatch on August 31, 2013, 09:27:19 AM
Okay for the scope itself, after I make an adjustment on older scope for that matter on a new scope I slap the vertical and horizontal adjustments just to make sure the scope sets the number of clicks I've put in. I also be an old survey instrument man always in my adjustment with the turn in. That means if you're going to be turning counterclockwise go past and then turn it back to the position you want and if you're going clockwise stop at the position you want. Another thing I thought of where groups how was the sling Bunton on the forehand if it hits your bags it can cause an erratic group, always slide your weapon back to its first sighting position of your first shot.
I did the turn past and then back thing, I finally just made adjustments 1 click at a time. I do not have a front sling Bunton as I do not run a sling and the rifle was in the same position the entire time. Thanks for the input :tup:
Post by: j_h_nimrod on September 01, 2013, 07:35:01 AM
On the flip side you might also consider adding some shims right at the tip of the barrel channel to put a little (very little) upward pressure on the rifle barrel. This can help settle some rifles. I have my Rem 700 .280 Ackley IMP set up this way and a .17 Rem as well.
Post by: bassquatch on September 30, 2013, 04:14:23 PM
I shot today at the same range but switched to Winchester Ballistic Silvertips 30.06 SPRG 168 grain. I also switched to the recommended sight-in targets. I am still not at all happy with the results :bash: I feel I could do this good with a wrist rocket and some marbles!
This deer and elk season will be this rifle and scopes last for me. The rifle will go to my son and he can do what he wants with it, the scope will go back to Leupold immediately. I will not take a shot greater than 150 yards at this point as I just do not trust the weapon 100%. I would not be worried taking a 100 yard ethical shot on an animal, but beyond that I lose faith rapidly!
At this point I will be buying a Tikka or Sako in .270 and mounting a Nikon or Vortex scope on it after the hunting seasons are over this month and if I go back to this range and shoot better groups than this then as far as I'm concerned my son won't see this rifle, the wood chipper and scrap yard will!
Thanks to everyone for their previous input! I tried to use all the tips you gave me I could.
The color of the text corresponds to the group fired:
Post by: Cap.Silver on September 30, 2013, 04:32:56 PM
Post by: bassquatch on September 30, 2013, 04:52:59 PM
Maybe you could try laser boresighter and save yourself few bucks on ammo .Other option is to ask someone who is better shot to shoot couple of groups . It could be that you're too tight after that many shots .... that could explain the last target ,otherwise you pretty close .
Recoil was not an issue at all! I have weekdays off, the 1 guy I personally know that can out shoot me 5 times out of 10 works weekdays... My other friends don't shoot rifles often enough that I would trust their opinion.
It's too close to the season for me to get any work done on the rifle, especially with my upcoming work schedule. At most I would have 1 day to site-in next week and that's it before season, not to mention trying to find a reputable shop in my area that has time this time of year?! It kind of is what it is at this point.... I should have started this in May, not August. Work got busy and unfortunately I am at this point. I have thought about getting the new gun and scope now and sighting it in next week and hunting with it but that's not realistic....
Post by: hoyt2002 on September 30, 2013, 05:43:34 PM
Post by: bassquatch on September 30, 2013, 06:56:44 PM
Did the gun shoot better than this before? If it did and you have shot alot in the last 13years I would say copper fouling might be your issue.
Yes it did. I have cleaned it regularly and put maybe 20-40 rounds per year through it. This topic started because I fell while hunting and the gun rattled barrel tip to buttstock a couple times with my hand underneath it where the scope attaches. Since that incident I have worried about the scope possibly being the culprit? It doesn't seem to make 1/4" adjustments anymore? I spoke of this in the original post on page 1. The rounds seem to "dance" around the paper? So my options seem to be 1) dump money into a 13 year old gun doing a barrel, trigger, stock and getting the scope tested OR 2) start over with a Tikka or Sako and new scope? I just don't see myself shooting crappy when fully braced with sand bags and a solid rest? I'm not a flincher either.
I figure If I give my son this gun I know he will go to town on it so that may just be what I do, let him spend the money making it what HE wants....
Unfortunately the timing for replacement right now is NOT good, so I will have to wait until after the season sometime for the new purchase and make due with this setup...
Post by: hoyt2002 on September 30, 2013, 07:19:35 PM
Post by: wildweeds on September 30, 2013, 07:30:29 PM
Did the gun shoot better than this before? If it did and you have shot alot in the last 13years I would say copper fouling might be your issue.
Post by: bassquatch on September 30, 2013, 09:05:22 PM
+ 1 on the copper fouling,I bought a rifle from guy,he said it shot "OK" a winchester mod 70 spanky new in 1970,I bought it from the guy around 1991,was his wifes rifle that he had bought second hand.Sure enough it shot about like he said,good enough to hit a 3 inch circle at 100 yards.I coppered it out with some barnes juice and then cleaned the bejeezus out of it,and boy was it a project .Guess what, the thing will shoot lights out now, .243,75 grain accutip remmy factory ammo, 5 shot group at 100 at 3/8 of inch.I consider it to be my best gun buy yet whereas revenue spent goes,200 bucks.Did the gun shoot better than this before? If it did and you have shot alot in the last 13years I would say copper fouling might be your issue.
Well, I will give it a thorough scrubbing and do one more site-in and see if there's a change?
I'd try a new scope then if you got the time. If that don't work you have the new one already for the new rifle you pick up later.
This could end up being a good option! :tup:
Post by: JLS on September 30, 2013, 09:15:40 PM
Also, put a different scope on and see if the results are repeatable. That will help you narrow it down to the gun, the ammo, or the optics.
Post by: bassquatch on September 30, 2013, 09:36:26 PM
If the scope is a Leupold, why don't you send it in for warranty repair?
Also, put a different scope on and see if the results are repeatable. That will help you narrow it down to the gun, the ammo, or the optics.
Wouldn't get it back in time for the season.... as I mentioned, got a late start unfortunately, add in a ton of overtime August and September and I am just trying to do what I can before season. Scope will go in November 3rd.
Post by: wildweeds on September 30, 2013, 10:24:53 PM
Post by: hoyt2002 on September 30, 2013, 10:31:09 PM
Post by: bassquatch on October 01, 2013, 05:13:19 PM
Again THANK YOU ALL for the great tips! :tup: This has definitely been one huge learning experience :bash:
Well, I went and got the Hoppe's 9 copper solvent, the 1 piece carbon fiber Tipton rod (as suggested, mine was a 2 piece) and a new chamber guide. Spent 2 hours cleaning this gun! At first I was very optimistic just due to the sheer volume of gunk I was getting after each brushing, very interesting and eye opening! Hope remained until my trip back to the range to see if that was the issue? Hope still remained 10 rounds in....then the gremlins returned :bash:
At this point, I am done screwing with it! Time to go hunt, be sneaky and keep anything I shoot at inside my 150 yard comfort zone. In November action #1 will be sending the scope in to Leupold. IF that checks out, this thing is going to a good competent gunsmith to get fully disassembled and inspected. After that I will decided its fate.
Today's "groups" are in the pics below: :bash:
Post by: 762Armo on October 01, 2013, 05:18:18 PM
If you were thinking about picking one up at all, this would be the time to do it, and send yours in for warranty.
Post by: threedwizard on October 01, 2013, 05:24:57 PM
Post by: bassquatch on October 01, 2013, 06:05:56 PM
I'm pretty certain the problem lies in your scope.
If you were thinking about picking one up at all, this would be the time to do it, and send yours in for warranty.
My thinking exactly! I just gotta pick out the one I'm going to want mounted on my Sako NOW, take it to the range next week and sight it in, then get through the seasons and wait fot the Leupold to get back from the shop to swap them back out....decisions, decisions.....
Post by: bassquatch on October 01, 2013, 06:07:30 PM
I agree with JLS, find a scope and put it on. Also, it looks like the gun may not like the ammo your feeding it. I've shot that cheap Winchester power point out of a Browning BAR in 300 WM for years and it shoots fine and have killed a few dozen elk. At least a scope change will give you the peace of mind to pull the trigger?? Heck, there's plenty of <$100 scopes out there. My 2 cents...
I've tried 4 different kinds in 2 different calibers with the same consistently inconsistent results. :chuckle:
Post by: threedwizard on October 01, 2013, 08:39:49 PM
Post by: lokidog on October 01, 2013, 09:34:36 PM
I love my -06's though now. Every one shoots 165s (168s) much better than 180s for accuracy. My suggestions would have matched many of the ones given such as the copper solvent. However, I didn't see this one, though I may have missed it.... When I got my A-bolt in the 80's I took it to the range in SoCal. It was 90 degrees out and I would wait almost twenty minutes between shots sometimes for the barrel to cool. Maybe, even in our cooler temperatures, you are still not giving it as much time to cool between shots as it needs?
Post by: wildweeds on October 01, 2013, 09:48:24 PM
Post by: KFhunter on October 01, 2013, 09:58:48 PM
it's done
Post by: bassquatch on October 02, 2013, 01:17:57 PM
I had a .308 that looked similar on the range, sold it for not very much to, fortunately, a friend. He discovered the scope had a bouncy crosshair in it. Looks like time for a new scope.
I love my -06's though now. Every one shoots 165s (168s) much better than 180s for accuracy. My suggestions would have matched many of the ones given such as the copper solvent. However, I didn't see this one, though I may have missed it.... When I got my A-bolt in the 80's I took it to the range in SoCal. It was 90 degrees out and I would wait almost twenty minutes between shots sometimes for the barrel to cool. Maybe, even in our cooler temperatures, you are still not giving it as much time to cool between shots as it needs?
Yep, I'm thinking scope at this point, it couldn't hurt at least! I'm going to throw a Vortex Diamondback on it this week and go back to the range, if I don't see improvement then I know it's the gun. If I do see improvement then the Leupold goes in for warranty....either way I'm good cause it either shoots the same or gets better :dunno:
Easiest thing to do would be sell me the 700 for 300 bucks cash, and chunk the money down on a tikka 300 short mag(my buddy has 2 of em that shot a 1/2 inch group with a leupold 3x10 first time at range) :chuckle: :chuckle:You'll get er dialed but it's evident copper is not your shooters freind
That may just happen :chuckle: I feel I cleaned the copper out pretty dang good? I'll see what the new scope does? I am not beyond the new Tikka and scope idea, just trying to avoid the cash out right now!
Post by: wildweeds on October 02, 2013, 08:05:09 PM
Post by: bassquatch on October 02, 2013, 08:52:56 PM
Action to stock screws tight and even/equal ? Kind of a dumb question but thought it may be overlooked?
Yep. Double checked every screw on the thing when all this started. I think I have it figured? I will update again Monday. Thanks to everyone for the input, I really have tried to research and use as many suggestions as I could. It has been a massive learning experience! I'm never afraid to say I goofed, it means I'm human, it also means I'm willing to learn, of which I do quickly, these suggestions and all the research will aid me tremendously when I step up into a new rifle next year.....or Monday :chuckle:
Post by: wastickslinger on October 03, 2013, 07:53:20 AM
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
Post by: bassquatch on October 03, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
By looking at the groups Id have to say it looks like your shooting a 30-06. :chuckle: Sorry I know 2 jabs in one thread. Im sure your frusterated this close to hunting. I had a 22-250 that did very similar things as your gun is doing. I used wipe out copper remover, no luck. I changed my rings and bases, no luck. I changed scopes, no luck. Are you running a snake or something through it between groups? Sounds like when you cleaned it there was a lot of crud. Makes me wonder if for some reason your getting more than normal fouling after a few shots.
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly! :tup: Going to try the new scope first as was suggested and since I will need a new one for the Tikka anyways. It get 10 rounds PERIOD! It either groups or goes bye bye and I will spend Tuesday breaking in the new Tikka properly :tup:
Post by: lokidog on October 03, 2013, 09:34:31 AM
Good luck!
Post by: thinkingman on October 03, 2013, 09:49:26 AM
:yeah:By looking at the groups Id have to say it looks like your shooting a 30-06. :chuckle: Sorry I know 2 jabs in one thread. Im sure your frusterated this close to hunting. I had a 22-250 that did very similar things as your gun is doing. I used wipe out copper remover, no luck. I changed my rings and bases, no luck. I changed scopes, no luck. Are you running a snake or something through it between groups? Sounds like when you cleaned it there was a lot of crud. Makes me wonder if for some reason your getting more than normal fouling after a few shots.
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly! :tup: Going to try the new scope first as was suggested and since I will need a new one for the Tikka anyways. It get 10 rounds PERIOD! It either groups or goes bye bye and I will spend Tuesday breaking in the new Tikka properly :tup:
Cut your losses.
You can always find someone to buy a Leupold/R700 combo for much more than it's worth.
Now let's debate the cartridge for your Tikka!
Post by: bassquatch on October 03, 2013, 10:46:43 AM
:yeah:By looking at the groups Id have to say it looks like your shooting a 30-06. :chuckle: Sorry I know 2 jabs in one thread. Im sure your frusterated this close to hunting. I had a 22-250 that did very similar things as your gun is doing. I used wipe out copper remover, no luck. I changed my rings and bases, no luck. I changed scopes, no luck. Are you running a snake or something through it between groups? Sounds like when you cleaned it there was a lot of crud. Makes me wonder if for some reason your getting more than normal fouling after a few shots.
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly! :tup: Going to try the new scope first as was suggested and since I will need a new one for the Tikka anyways. It get 10 rounds PERIOD! It either groups or goes bye bye and I will spend Tuesday breaking in the new Tikka properly :tup:
Cut your losses.
You can always find someone to buy a Leupold/R700 combo for much more than it's worth.
Now let's debate the cartridge for your Tikka!
I'm pretty set on a .270 but may end up with another .06 because .270 ammo is sold out everywhere!
Post by: wastickslinger on October 03, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
:yeah:By looking at the groups Id have to say it looks like your shooting a 30-06. :chuckle: Sorry I know 2 jabs in one thread. Im sure your frusterated this close to hunting. I had a 22-250 that did very similar things as your gun is doing. I used wipe out copper remover, no luck. I changed my rings and bases, no luck. I changed scopes, no luck. Are you running a snake or something through it between groups? Sounds like when you cleaned it there was a lot of crud. Makes me wonder if for some reason your getting more than normal fouling after a few shots.
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly! :tup: Going to try the new scope first as was suggested and since I will need a new one for the Tikka anyways. It get 10 rounds PERIOD! It either groups or goes bye bye and I will spend Tuesday breaking in the new Tikka properly :tup:
Cut your losses.
You can always find someone to buy a Leupold/R700 combo for much more than it's worth.
Now let's debate the cartridge for your Tikka!
I'm pretty set on a .270 but may end up with another .06 because .270 ammo is sold out everywhere!
Man you were headed in the right direction until you mentioned another 06. :bash: :bash: Id rather buy a .243
Post by: bassquatch on October 03, 2013, 03:20:48 PM
:yeah:By looking at the groups Id have to say it looks like your shooting a 30-06. :chuckle: Sorry I know 2 jabs in one thread. Im sure your frusterated this close to hunting. I had a 22-250 that did very similar things as your gun is doing. I used wipe out copper remover, no luck. I changed my rings and bases, no luck. I changed scopes, no luck. Are you running a snake or something through it between groups? Sounds like when you cleaned it there was a lot of crud. Makes me wonder if for some reason your getting more than normal fouling after a few shots.
I will tell you that a tikka .270 or 7mm with a vortex viper PST will solve your problem. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly! :tup: Going to try the new scope first as was suggested and since I will need a new one for the Tikka anyways. It get 10 rounds PERIOD! It either groups or goes bye bye and I will spend Tuesday breaking in the new Tikka properly :tup:
Cut your losses.
You can always find someone to buy a Leupold/R700 combo for much more than it's worth.
Now let's debate the cartridge for your Tikka!
I'm pretty set on a .270 but may end up with another .06 because .270 ammo is sold out everywhere!
Man you were headed in the right direction until you mentioned another 06. :bash: :bash: Id rather buy a .243
I know I know, it's what I'm used to though and I already have the ammo. I like the versatility of the .06 rounds, both my critters dropped in their tracks and that's what really matters! I will have a .270 one day but doubt I will ever be into the magnums? I'll be happy and confident and that's half the battle :tup:
Tikka T3 Stainless Steel SuperLite Camo is waiting for me as we speak, just need to get off work! :bash: :bash:
Post by: Bill W on October 03, 2013, 03:32:49 PM
Your barrel shouldn't move around in the stock when shot. I'd say you need to bed your action, either with fiberglass or pillars. That would fix what ever is moving or getting stressed in your rifle's action.
Next thing to be address is did you shoot in Range 1 (Members only) or in Range 2 (Public shooters). Back when I shot off the Range 2 benches I could move the bench the equivalent of 6 inches at 100 yards. Also were you using a front/rear rest/bags you brought or did you use the sandbags provided at Kenmore? Changing hand position/sitting position on your rifle and inconsistent placement of the rifle in the rest will cause your impact points to move about.
I used to shoot in the benchrest matches at Kenmore and before moving to Moses Lake, was a member there for about 30 years.
Post by: JJB11B on October 03, 2013, 03:49:07 PM
Post by: bassquatch on October 03, 2013, 05:28:10 PM
You didn't say anything about how good of a shot you are. If you are average then both groups are pretty good.
Your barrel shouldn't move around in the stock when shot. I'd say you need to bed your action, either with fiberglass or pillars. That would fix what ever is moving or getting stressed in your rifle's action.
Next thing to be address is did you shoot in Range 1 (Members only) or in Range 2 (Public shooters). Back when I shot off the Range 2 benches I could move the bench the equivalent of 6 inches at 100 yards. Also were you using a front/rear rest/bags you brought or did you use the sandbags provided at Kenmore? Changing hand position/sitting position on your rifle and inconsistent placement of the rifle in the rest will cause your impact points to move about.
I used to shoot in the benchrest matches at Kenmore and before moving to Moses Lake, was a member there for about 30 years.
Compared to who?? I've out shot all of my friends. Never shot competitively but feel I am above average? The quarter on page 1 was me with my buddies AR-15, he only let me shoot 10 rounds and I hit that quarter 4 times and the only shot more than an inch away was the first one. I shot a buck at 176yards and there was no heart left...WITH THIS GUN!
I am chalking this rifle up to a learning experience and replacing it with a Tikka T3 Stainless Steel SuperLite Camo, I'm picking it up tonight and with everything I have researched and learned through this site and others it will have a long and happy accurate life :)
Thanks for the input! :tup:
165s and 168s seem to shoot better with the 30-06's and .308s Ive had. I think the velocity has a lot to do with it. My 300 win mag loved the 180s but it was pushing a little faster
I like the 165's too, this rifle never really had a problem with the 180's, that's what made the heart shot on my buck at 176yds.... I believe this rifle could do with a new stock, barrel and the scope will get repaired then my son can have it....or I will sell it and get him a Tikka after I fall in love with mine :chuckle:
Post by: jay.sharkbait on October 03, 2013, 07:29:43 PM
Post by: BNAElkhntr on October 03, 2013, 07:36:51 PM
Jims suggestion might help you the most if you really want to tighten it up. I use the square targets and aim for a bottom corner. :dunno::yeah: Shoot at circles you go in circles
Post by: lokidog on October 03, 2013, 09:00:10 PM
Jims suggestion might help you the most if you really want to tighten it up. I use the square targets and aim for a bottom corner. :dunno::yeah: Shoot at circles you go in circles
I prefer to shoot at diamonds or, as mentioned, the corners of a square target as well.
Post by: bassquatch on October 03, 2013, 09:09:28 PM
After removing the copper, how many rounds did you fire before shooting the last series of groups?
25.
Jims suggestion might help you the most if you really want to tighten it up. I use the square targets and aim for a bottom corner. :dunno::yeah: Shoot at circles you go in circles
I prefer to shoot at diamonds or, as mentioned, the corners of a square target as well.
I bought those targets for the simple fact that they had smaller red dot aim points and 'crosshair' style points of aim....I lined up my crosshairs with the ones on the target and would hit 7 inches right, then dead center low, then high, then the guy next to me, then an airplane.....
However, I am no longer worried as I purchased a fresh start this evening! Please see "Out with the old....." :tup:
Post by: Bill W on October 04, 2013, 08:41:20 AM
Post by: bassquatch on October 04, 2013, 08:48:45 AM
The diameter of a quarter is approximately 1.2".
Yep. So not bad for 60 yards with iron sights with an AR-15 I handled for the very first time! :dunno:
Post by: OnHoPr on October 06, 2013, 06:17:40 PM