Post by: huntnphool on September 04, 2013, 10:13:24 PM
Post by: JLS on September 04, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
Post by: HighCountryHunter88 on September 04, 2013, 10:25:35 PM
Post by: dmv9 on September 04, 2013, 10:30:46 PM
Post by: Dan-o on September 04, 2013, 10:57:22 PM
Post by: snowpack on September 04, 2013, 11:08:40 PM
Post by: Mike450r on September 04, 2013, 11:19:25 PM
Post by: lostbackpacker on September 04, 2013, 11:22:06 PM
Buckshot
Slug
Buckshot
Slug
Buckshot
Slug
Buckshot
In that order
Post by: Bean Counter on September 04, 2013, 11:33:37 PM
i use 00 buckshot. 12 gauge tactical loads, a little reduced recoil for the ladies ;)
Post by: ORCA_SIX on September 05, 2013, 01:59:08 AM
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm (http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm)
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot56.htm)
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176 (http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=176)
Post by: lee on September 05, 2013, 06:12:25 AM
A house out in the country...... slug, buckshot, etc are fine.
An apartment, or a "cookie cutter" house with only 10 feet between houses..... #6 or even #7 1/2 as the lethal affect of a Scatter gun at close range is devastating.
I would not want to live with the consequences of killing my neighbor in the house beside me from a slug or buckshot discharge over penetration.
Yer milage may vary...
Lee
Post by: jyerxa on September 05, 2013, 06:20:47 AM
I loved the Mags as I grew up and shot the heck out of em. Sometimes the recoil was all I wanted. Just to feel the kick.
Buuutt? I never want to shoot my 7mm again! I need to realize my bone structure can't handle it any more. I already got 6 broken vertebrae and two compressed disks in my back.
Fact in life I must face. That is my problem and not yours. But it makes me think of the little ladies and what can work best for them a little more in context.
So what am I going to grab for self defense? It has got to be quick and ready to reach. I am going to have to follow up and carry the action through to the end. A double barrel shot gun. 20 gauge for a young woman. 10 gauge fore californicatrion hog. Just like shoes.
I hate talking like this. I got a bad disease for the bones. They are brittle now in my so called elderly senior years. My mind says "any day any time pale and we will square it off" My smarts say, "Your a broken ol fool."
So I get home invaded. Let me tell you. Not only will the pain be worth surviving to see my grand kids again. But I'm only going to do it with one quick and easy shot. ;) It is all about knowing who you are and not what others are doing. Sounds cool. But that is a quick way to 6 feet under. :twocents:
Know, learn what you don't know. Be practical and know what you and your wife can handle. Don't be Macho. Be loving. And the love of your family will tell you what to do and what is best.
Get'er Done. ;)
Post by: nwwanderer on September 05, 2013, 08:48:05 AM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on September 05, 2013, 09:03:07 AM
...for a 12 gauge, what are you thoughts?
Personally I like Hornady TAP FPD 00 Buck. When it came out it had the tightest pattern of any 00 buck at the time and from my test it holds pretty true from a cylinder bore. I know there is some concern about 00 buck penetrating walls, however; in order for ANY round to be effective it needs to have enough force to penetrate muscle, bone, tendons, organs ect. and that means it will penetrate a wall as well. If that was not true we would all be using BB guns! If over penetration is a concern Bird shot CAN be an alterative, but I do remember reading a report a while back about a BG who was shot with bird shot. It left a crater in his chest (mostly muscle and skin) and a few of the shot did make it to vital organs, however the damage was minimal enough that he was able to walk into the ER or Ambulance (cant remember witch). not MY idea of STOPPING a BG. your opinion may very.
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2013, 09:12:27 AM
Post by: lostbackpacker on September 05, 2013, 09:16:08 AM
I'm getting older. I can't play baseball any more and steal bases.
I loved the Mags as I grew up and shot the heck out of em. Sometimes the recoil was all I wanted. Just to feel the kick.
Buuutt? I never want to shoot my 7mm again! I need to realize my bone structure can't handle it any more. I already got 6 broken vertebrae and two compressed disks in my back.
Fact in life I must face. That is my problem and not yours. But it makes me think of the little ladies and what can work best for them a little more in context.
So what am I going to grab for self defense? It has got to be quick and ready to reach. I am going to have to follow up and carry the action through to the end. A double barrel shot gun. 20 gauge for a young woman. 10 gauge fore californicatrion hog. Just like shoes.
I hate talking like this. I got a bad disease for the bones. They are brittle now in my so called elderly senior years. My mind says "any day any time pale and we will square it off" My smarts say, "Your a broken ol fool."
So I get home invaded. Let me tell you. Not only will the pain be worth surviving to see my grand kids again. But I'm only going to do it with one quick and easy shot. ;) It is all about knowing who you are and not what others are doing. Sounds cool. But that is a quick way to 6 feet under. :twocents:
Know, learn what you don't know. Be practical and know what you and your wife can handle. Don't be Macho. Be loving. And the love of your family will tell you what to do and what is best.
Get'er Done. ;)
tough call on what to use. i like to think that i would rather have my wife have a broken bone than be killed or something else. that is why as of now we have the 12ga loaded. not saying the 20ga wouldnt do the job, but i know a 12ga will.
I would also like to believe that adrenaline would take over and she wouldnt feel the 12ga as much.
Post by: Mongo Hunter on September 05, 2013, 09:31:27 AM
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/05/02/58-birdshot-pellets-hit-hunter-drives-himself-to-safety/ (http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/05/02/58-birdshot-pellets-hit-hunter-drives-himself-to-safety/)
http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2012/06/19/man-shot-in-face-in-tacoma/ (http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2012/06/19/man-shot-in-face-in-tacoma/)
http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=141894 (http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=141894)
Post by: oldcamper on September 05, 2013, 09:40:56 AM
Post by: JLS on September 05, 2013, 09:46:36 AM
Reduced recoil flight control buckshot is very easy to shoot, and very effective. You can do head shots with this stuff at 25 yards at a standard silhoutte scoring target and keep all 9 pellets in the head.
Post by: jackmaster on September 05, 2013, 10:00:58 AM
Post by: turkeyfeather on September 05, 2013, 10:02:34 AM
Post by: Mike450r on September 05, 2013, 10:04:22 AM
Whatever I had at the time would be used if needed, including any of my magnum rifles but I am talking for a designated in the home defense 12 gauge round. I would say do some test shots at distances you would encounter in your house to know for sure and go with what you feel safe with in your house. My main line of reasoning is those situations often result in a shot that is not optimal and hits nothing but a wall. I would rather read the story of the family member on the other side of the wall being peppered than FUBAR.
Post by: 12Gauge on September 05, 2013, 10:45:44 AM
#4 buck shot
:yeah:
00Buck with 2-3/4 shells gives you 9 pellets 3"mags gives 12 pellets #4 buckshot I think has 34 pellets for 3" magnum
Post by: jyerxa on September 05, 2013, 10:50:59 AM
Post by: Don Fischer on September 05, 2013, 11:12:39 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on September 05, 2013, 12:44:22 PM
There is a good reason why you don't see any police agencies using bird shot in their shotguns.
..
Army Rangers used to pack birdshot. Not sure if they still do or not.
Post by: OutdoorFreak97 on September 05, 2013, 12:59:52 PM
And also, if you only get one shot and it has to count......birdshot is quite lethal at close range.
If I was a thug and broke into a house and heard the sound of a shotgun getting racked and saw a red dot coming down a hallway I wouldn't be to keen on staying to chat... Just my 2cents
Post by: Smossy on September 05, 2013, 01:07:59 PM
Post by: WSU on September 05, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
If I was a thug and broke into a house and heard the sound of a shotgun getting racked and saw a red dot coming down a hallway I wouldn't be to keen on staying to chat... Just my 2cents
If you do that in my house you won't hear anything but me telling you get out followed closely by a loud boom. My shotgun is loaded with buckshot.
Post by: Smossy on September 05, 2013, 01:33:44 PM
Shotgun Bolo Round - Medical Damage Analysis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM10EL5WmC4#ws)
Post by: Rick on September 05, 2013, 01:40:58 PM
Post by: OutdoorFreak97 on September 05, 2013, 01:44:18 PM
That is why I said if I WAS, having commonsense, something a lot of people don't have
If you do that in my house you won't hear anything but me telling you get out followed closely by a loud boom. My shotgun is loaded with buckshot.
I haven't made a habit of stealing stuff and that's why I will never break into your house or anyone else's.
Post by: Smossy on September 05, 2013, 02:55:41 PM
You can break into my house, you'll only get shot with a bow, or slammed with a tomahawk. no big deal.That is why I said if I WAS, having commonsense, something a lot of people don't have
If you do that in my house you won't hear anything but me telling you get out followed closely by a loud boom. My shotgun is loaded with buckshot.
I haven't made a habit of stealing stuff and that's why I will never break into your house or anyone else's.
Post by: kckrawler on September 05, 2013, 03:37:12 PM
Understanding Ballistics in Home Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxkVMQHGpE#)
Post by: OutdoorFreak97 on September 05, 2013, 05:02:30 PM
You can break into my house, you'll only get shot with a bow, or slammed with a tomahawk. no big deal.That is why I said if I WAS, having commonsense, something a lot of people don't have
If you do that in my house you won't hear anything but me telling you get out followed closely by a loud boom. My shotgun is loaded with buckshot.
I haven't made a habit of stealing stuff and that's why I will never break into your house or anyone else's.
Only if its a expandable or thumper!
Oh, slight suggestion... use shark knife instead of a tomahawk!
For fast response you'll have to wear it to bed as it takes a few minutes to put on.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F13%2F09%2F06%2Fugy8upeh.jpg&hash=13d36c3137d08a544915d60434303cb334887a92)
Post by: Smossy on September 05, 2013, 05:51:03 PM
You can break into my house, you'll only get shot with a bow, or slammed with a tomahawk. no big deal.That is why I said if I WAS, having commonsense, something a lot of people don't have
If you do that in my house you won't hear anything but me telling you get out followed closely by a loud boom. My shotgun is loaded with buckshot.
I haven't made a habit of stealing stuff and that's why I will never break into your house or anyone else's.
Only if its a expandable or thumper!
Oh, slight suggestion... use shark knife instead of a tomahawk!
For fast response you'll have to wear it to bed as it takes a few minutes to put on.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F13%2F09%2F06%2Fugy8upeh.jpg&hash=13d36c3137d08a544915d60434303cb334887a92)
:yike:
Holy cow.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on September 05, 2013, 06:00:39 PM
There is a good reason why you don't see any police agencies using bird shot in their shotguns.
..
Army Rangers used to pack birdshot. Not sure if they still do or not.
I don't know a single Ranger who would ever consider birdshot..........
Post by: Smossy on September 05, 2013, 06:00:44 PM
Pretty interesting and informative Youtube clip...Cool video but I noticed there was no insulation in-between the walls, that on top of 2x4 studs that are about every few feet. Wonder how much those could come into play.
Understanding Ballistics in Home Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxkVMQHGpE#)
Post by: turkeyfeather on September 05, 2013, 06:14:43 PM
Interior walls generally don't have insulation. And I have seen non-weight bearing walls be 24" on center for the studs. That's about the size those panels look to me. But your right exterior walls would have different results.Pretty interesting and informative Youtube clip...Cool video but I noticed there was no insulation in-between the walls, that on top of 2x4 studs that are about every few feet. Wonder how much those could come into play.
Understanding Ballistics in Home Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxkVMQHGpE#)
Post by: CP on September 05, 2013, 06:22:12 PM
A 9mm will shoot through 11 sheets of dry wall. Installation will slow down a round but not much. If you use a handgun for home protection you really should be using something frangible like a Glaser Safety Slug
Post by: jaymark6655 on September 05, 2013, 06:32:46 PM
Interior walls don't have insulation and a wall is 93% air and only about 7% wood. That a lot of chances to miss the studs on a 16" on center wall. An exterior wall doesn't do anything to stop an .40 and that first wall didn't stop that birdshot, but they didn't show that. 9mm will go through a fridge fill completely with gallon milk jugs of water, all the way through with enough to hurt a person.Pretty interesting and informative Youtube clip...Cool video but I noticed there was no insulation in-between the walls, that on top of 2x4 studs that are about every few feet. Wonder how much those could come into play.
Understanding Ballistics in Home Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxkVMQHGpE#)
I use birdshot in my shotgun, but I also have everything else loaded so I can pretty much grab what ever I want to.
Post by: justaguy on September 05, 2013, 06:49:55 PM
over penetration and collateral damage are both serious concerns with interior structures. rack one and call out in a loud, confident voice to "get out". i'd bet you hear pooping sounds.
Post by: higunner on September 06, 2013, 06:41:40 AM
Post by: Fisherdave10 on September 06, 2013, 07:47:03 AM
I have Federal Premium 00 Buck on standby, but I would prefer #1 Buck if I could easily find it.
Really, I wouldn't be reaching for my shotgun for home defense. I have my AR loaded with 30 rounds of 64gr Federal Fusion. A deformed, tumbling .224"+ bullet isn't going to go through more walls than a 00 Buck or a JHP load.
Glaser Safety Slugs and any other "frangible" ammunition is a very poor choice. Drywall won't stop it and terminal ballistics are pretty pathetic. Not to mention the highway-robbery price for that garbage.
Birdshot has very minimal penetration compared to most defensive loads and I would rather use something that is capable of putting an attacker down due to CNS disruption or hypovolemia. If you're going to mess around, use a cap gun... :rolleyes:
Post by: Smossy on September 06, 2013, 07:48:30 AM
Good point, Didnt think about indoor walls not having insulation.Interior walls don't have insulation and a wall is 93% air and only about 7% wood. That a lot of chances to miss the studs on a 16" on center wall. An exterior wall doesn't do anything to stop an .40 and that first wall didn't stop that birdshot, but they didn't show that. 9mm will go through a fridge fill completely with gallon milk jugs of water, all the way through with enough to hurt a person.Pretty interesting and informative Youtube clip...Cool video but I noticed there was no insulation in-between the walls, that on top of 2x4 studs that are about every few feet. Wonder how much those could come into play.
Understanding Ballistics in Home Defense (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAxkVMQHGpE#)
I use birdshot in my shotgun, but I also have everything else loaded so I can pretty much grab what ever I want to.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on September 06, 2013, 08:30:56 AM
I don't know what is more foolish....Asking the question or responding.
:twocents:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 06, 2013, 08:40:34 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on September 06, 2013, 08:52:49 AM
Post by: calib on September 06, 2013, 09:20:17 AM
other than these you could always use a bird load out to 15 yards or so they don't open much and will put a big whole in them, but the residual pellets should stop in the walls, dry wall, studs, etc.
i do agree that slug or buck shot is the top way to go when there is no collateral damage of life, i have lots of the 00 rem loads for my shotgun, but don't hope to shoot in a house or apt.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on September 06, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
But if I were to have time to prepare for an impending or developing situation, I would reach for a coach gun with #4 buck for inside protection. I would like to think that I would not shoot with family members in the backdrop, and neighbors are a sufficient distance away as to be extremely unlikely to receive collateral damage.
Post by: huntnphool on September 06, 2013, 09:55:10 AM
if in site you could get the less than leathal rounds, i know thats not gonna end the guys career, but trust me they will do everything but killWorthless round then in my opinion!
If its ever to the point where you have made the decision to pull the trigger you had better make sure the assailant does not live to testify, because you can plan on spending your life savings in litigation if they do. :twocents: