Post by: gotcha on September 24, 2013, 11:08:22 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on September 24, 2013, 11:11:14 AM
Post by: gotcha on September 24, 2013, 11:39:05 AM
Post by: bcrawford on September 24, 2013, 11:50:24 AM
Post by: gotcha on September 24, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 24, 2013, 12:18:25 PM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 24, 2013, 12:20:31 PM
Post by: gotcha on September 24, 2013, 12:23:12 PM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 24, 2013, 12:28:23 PM
Post by: Screaminreelz on September 24, 2013, 12:32:18 PM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 24, 2013, 12:39:00 PM
Post by: gotcha on September 24, 2013, 12:41:40 PM
Post by: b0bbyg on September 24, 2013, 02:54:08 PM
We have cow tags and saw a few but never close enough to shoot "responsibly" but I really wanted to arc one in :o
Figure the late season will open up more of the unit and we will get after it then.
Post by: bowhunterty on September 24, 2013, 04:54:10 PM
Post by: bullcanyon on September 24, 2013, 07:36:25 PM
Post by: bullcanyon on September 24, 2013, 07:37:33 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on September 24, 2013, 08:36:17 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on September 24, 2013, 08:42:15 PM
Post by: gotcha on September 25, 2013, 03:35:53 AM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 25, 2013, 05:27:53 AM
Toutle bull tag seen 4 bulls. got in shooting range of 3. Only 1 was decent size. less than 15 elk total and many miles hiking and biking. not a good start
Had nearly the same experience. Saw only 5 bulls and 10 cows in two weeks. Only heard of one bull killed.
Post by: gotcha on September 25, 2013, 07:56:26 AM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 25, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
Post by: gotcha on September 25, 2013, 01:27:23 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on September 25, 2013, 04:47:17 PM
Post by: doyourtime89 on September 25, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
Post by: Bullkllr on September 25, 2013, 05:42:37 PM
Yet the DFW call the Toutle a quality tag and just keep serving up all those tags. I will be shocked if the rumors aren't true and both these units aren't OTC within 2 or 3 years.
Most of the guys I ran in to in the western part of the Margret had seen few to no elk at all. Regular season units would normally be much better than that. With the way it's "managed", maybe it should be OTC :dunno: I'd keep the monument part select tag though for sure. My :twocents:
Post by: Ghost Hunter on September 26, 2013, 05:16:27 AM
[/quote]
:yeah: Anybody making an effort in the back contry?
Post by: elkhuntingcouple on September 26, 2013, 06:44:50 AM
Post by: TMortensen on September 26, 2013, 09:39:28 AM
Post by: erk444 on September 26, 2013, 06:23:36 PM
Post by: furbearer365 on September 26, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
Post by: erk444 on September 26, 2013, 08:04:55 PM
Post by: swwaoutdoorsman on September 26, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
Here's my margret bull. One of the smaller we seen but hard to pass at 10yards. I missed a 6x6 about 310class. Got onto a couple others in the mid to upper 200's. All in all it was a fun hunt. We seen around 30 bulls during the hunt, half being 5x6 or bigger....I definitely see this hunt being a general tag though.Congrats on the bull :tup: how'd that go? You throw salt on their tail to get em to come in? :chuckle:
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 28, 2013, 10:18:06 PM
Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one. :twocents::yeah:
Post by: furbearer365 on September 29, 2013, 07:02:38 PM
Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one. :twocents:
How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow? I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them. I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags. The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best. I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons. Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy. Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will. If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better. Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late. The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process. You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units. :twocents:
Post by: kentrek on September 29, 2013, 07:57:06 PM
Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one. :twocents:
How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow? I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them. I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags. The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best. I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons. Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy. Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will. If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better. Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late. The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process. You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units. :twocents:
What about applying that idea to the whole state ?? I've always been fond of getting rid of draw units..the only thing that wouldn't benefit would be the states pocket book
Post by: furbearer365 on September 29, 2013, 08:28:13 PM
Post by: Jayfire83 on September 29, 2013, 08:51:36 PM
Very good point! Why cant WDFW come up with these things? Is there something we are missing?Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one. :twocents:
How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow? I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them. I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags. The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best. I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons. Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy. Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will. If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better. Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late. The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process. You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units. :twocents:
Post by: Labredog on October 01, 2013, 05:01:56 PM
Post by: Blacktail Sniper on October 01, 2013, 05:15:37 PM
If they made magaret a general season hunt, that place would be crazy crowded! Might not be the biggest bulls in there, but theres TONS of them. I wish I knew a general season area with that many bulls in it, I would hunt there in a heartbeat. Although, I'm sure hoof rot is taking its toll >:(
I don't think crowds would or will likely be a problem. I say that because, with the success of Vail & PeEll, Weyco will be charging for access to St Helen's, likely next year. They won't admit to it if you ask until they are ready to go, but it's coming. No reason to think its not.
Then if/when WDFW makes it OTC, it will still, in essence be a "Limited" pressure area.
Post by: Huntbear on October 01, 2013, 05:17:35 PM
Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one. :twocents:
It will be a slaughter of epic proportions... Those elk are used to seeing maybe 100 hunters all year long. NOT 1000+ a day the first season or two..
I don't think taking away all the draw tags is the way to go because I like the idea of having units that are limited and that will produce trophy quality animals. But I don't think leaving units 100% draw while leaving all sounding units 100% OTC is the way to go. You end up getting units like Margaret that have a small chance at achieving a true trophy, have to many elk, and all the surrounding units lacking in elk numbers.
The Lewis unit is not lacking in any elk #s. We see as many elk as ever. The Winston is so over hunted, due to Weyerhauser and the way they build roads, it is scary, but there are plenty of elk in that unit as well if you know where to look. As for not finding a true trophy in the Margaret, how hard are you willing to hunt? ARE YOU willing to pass on smaller bulls? The big boys are there, and can be seen readily if you know where to go, and do not mind long hikes in and out on semi treacherous trails in the dark 5-7 miles each way.
Post by: furbearer365 on October 01, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
[/quote]
If I know the unit? You could spin me around and drop me off in the middle and would be home before nighttime. But you seem to have been missing my point because you said everything I did already. My basis for having SOME SORT of general season is to improve numbers all over. I never said that the Toutle or Margaret should just all of the sudden go OTC, that would be a slaughter. I was advising opening up some short of early bow tag, or maybe even have archery season be OTC for cows only, or make it OTC for spikes with a muzzleloader for 5 days. Something to take the pressure off the surrounding units that you agreed are way overhunted. Have a short season at somepoint to take the pressure off the surrounding units would only benefit all the units, still leaving a good number of those great bulls to be had. :twocents:
Post by: erk444 on October 01, 2013, 08:04:38 PM
:yeah: I think that's a pretty good idea. I hate the thought of paying an access fee, but I would love to hunt bulls in there.....Im so torn!If they made magaret a general season hunt, that place would be crazy crowded! Might not be the biggest bulls in there, but theres TONS of them. I wish I knew a general season area with that many bulls in it, I would hunt there in a heartbeat. Although, I'm sure hoof rot is taking its toll >:(
I don't think crowds would or will likely be a problem. I say that because, with the success of Vail & PeEll, Weyco will be charging for access to St Helen's, likely next year. They won't admit to it if you ask until they are ready to go, but it's coming. No reason to think its not.
Then if/when WDFW makes it OTC, it will still, in essence be a "Limited" pressure area.
Post by: backcountry55 on October 02, 2013, 12:27:23 AM
Post by: Come Get Some on October 02, 2013, 07:16:57 AM
Post by: Bullkllr on October 02, 2013, 08:15:15 AM
There are a ton of bulls in the Margaret, A buddy and I had a blast this year playing around the high lakes areas in the northeast corner of the unit. Seen at least a half dozen bulls a day (each). We both took a 5x5 out of the back country. Story and pics to follow. :)
No doubt. Nice job on the bulls! Looking forward to the story and pics.That is an awesome area. And it has changed relatively little over the years.
Margaret as a whole has changed dramatically since I last hunted it. The grown-up trees on everything west of the Monument, or shall we say everything west of the private/no access land have played the major role in that. Then of course you have the major Weyco land sale which represents very arguably the best habitat and hunting area in the unit. Then you have the WDFW giving out many times more permits than they used to. The overall elk population has no doubt dropped, and so has the carrying capacity (in the Weyco area).
Should it remain permit only? I'd say yes, if only to preserve the experience in the monument area AND if it weren't permit only it could play right into the hands of the deep pocket private owners of the land west of the monument.
Post by: 2MANY on October 02, 2013, 08:39:37 AM
Cool stuff.
Great pic of you and the little one.
Post by: TMortensen on October 02, 2013, 08:53:33 AM
I have been hunting the area since I was 14. I am 55 now. A 300" bull in the Toutle .I dont think so. Maybe back in the early to mid eightiesTheyre there but hard to come by...I found a shed in the south end 2 yrs ago that is a 7pt and the one side scores 145" so if the other side matched with a 30" inside spread he would've been a 320 bull....
Post by: Screaminreelz on October 02, 2013, 08:59:05 AM
Post by: furbearer365 on October 02, 2013, 03:24:37 PM
Furbearer365 what are you talking about gray back being top draw for late it's OTC early and late for elk archery and it sucks you be lucky to see elk in that unit deer different story!
I was referring to it being open for early rifle and a draw for late rifle. And I was also referring to the deer hunt, not the elk. I should of specified that, im sorry