margret and toutle bulls?

[furbearer365]

Every unit in the state could be called quality if all you need for a quality hunt is less people.  They could take the Winston, in its current state, make it a draw tag with only 30 rifle tags, 20 muzzy, and 15 archery and you could easily call it quality by the fish and game standards.  Quality shouldn't just mean less pressure, because of course there will be less pressure, IT IS LIMITED ENTRY.  Just make the toutle and Margaret OTC and spread the people out, I bet it will make the hunting in those two (and surrounding units) better in the long run.

[erk444]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

[swwaoutdoorsman]

Here's my margret bull. One of the smaller we seen but hard to pass at 10yards. I missed a 6x6 about 310class. Got onto a couple others in the mid to upper 200's. All in all it was a fun hunt. We seen around 30 bulls during the hunt, half being 5x6 or bigger....I definitely see this hunt being a general tag though.

Congrats on the bull  how'd that go? You throw salt on their tail to get em to come in? 

[Jayfire83]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

 

[furbearer365]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow?  I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them.  I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags.  The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best.  I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons.  Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy.  Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will.  If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better.  Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late.  The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process.  You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units.

[kentrek]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow?  I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them.  I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags.  The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best.  I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons.  Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy.  Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will.  If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better.  Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late.  The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process.  You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units.

What about applying that idea to the whole state ?? I've always been fond of getting rid of draw units..the only thing that wouldn't benefit would be the states pocket book

[furbearer365]

I don't think taking away all the draw tags is the way to go because I like the idea of having units that are limited and that will produce trophy quality animals.  But I don't think leaving units 100% draw while leaving all sounding units 100% OTC is the way to go.  You end up getting units like Margaret that have a small chance at achieving a true trophy, have to many elk, and all the surrounding units lacking in elk numbers.

[Jayfire83]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

How many times in your life are you planning on drawing a Margaret tag, bull or cow?  I have lived next to both of these units my whole life and know plenty about both of them.  I believe that management and draw tags are essential and I love the idea of having quality tags.  The issue I have with the Margaret and Toutle units is that the state has givin so many tags the last few years that the ability of taking a true trophy are slim at best.  I would rather see them in a general season with limited seasons.  Maybe make it OTC for early archery or even Muzzy.  Opening up a general season will not effect the elk numbers to what you think they will.  If they were opened for a general season of somesort, it would take the pressure off the surrounding units and therefore make elk hunting as a whole much better.  Take the Grayback unit, it is open OTC during rifle and bow, yet is one of the top draw tags for late.  The same could be done here, thus making the Winston, Coweeman, and Ryderwood that much better in the process.  You said it yourself, there are not as many elk in the Winston, so spread out the hunters and watch the number grow in all the units.

Very good point! Why cant WDFW come up with these things? Is there something we are missing?

[Labredog]

There are a ton of bulls in the Margaret, A buddy and I had a blast this year playing around the high lakes areas in the northeast corner of the unit. Seen at least a half dozen bulls a day (each). We both took a 5x5 out of the back country. Story and pics to follow.

[Blacktail Sniper]

If they made magaret a general season hunt, that place would be crazy crowded! Might not be the biggest bulls in there, but theres TONS of them. I wish I knew a general season area with that many bulls in it, I would hunt there in a heartbeat. Although, I'm sure hoof rot is taking its toll

I don't think crowds would or will likely be a problem.  I say that because, with the success of Vail & PeEll, Weyco will be charging for access to St Helen's, likely next year.  They won't admit to it if you ask until they are ready to go, but it's coming.  No reason to think its not. 

Then if/when WDFW makes it OTC, it will still, in essence be a "Limited" pressure area.

[Huntbear]

Its not just less people, its elk #s. I've spent a lot of time in both the Margaret and the Winston, and the difference is like night and day when it comes to the amount of elk seen. I'm sure less pressure has something to do with it as well, but there are more elk in the Margaret hands down. I think that if it goes general, then it will be the same as the Winston after a few years. I think the harvest #s would drop way down. Which I suppose is a good thing if there's too many elk, but I think its still an awesome chance to shoot a bull, even if its not a huge one.

It will be a slaughter of epic proportions...  Those elk are used to seeing maybe 100 hunters all year long.  NOT 1000+ a day the first season or two.. 

I don't think taking away all the draw tags is the way to go because I like the idea of having units that are limited and that will produce trophy quality animals.  But I don't think leaving units 100% draw while leaving all sounding units 100% OTC is the way to go.  You end up getting units like Margaret that have a small chance at achieving a true trophy, have to many elk, and all the surrounding units lacking in elk numbers.

The Lewis unit is not lacking in any elk #s.  We see as many elk as ever.  The Winston is so over hunted, due to Weyerhauser and the way they build roads, it is scary, but there are plenty of elk in that unit as well if you know where to look.  As for not finding a true trophy in the Margaret, how hard are you willing to hunt?  ARE YOU willing to pass on smaller bulls?  The big boys are there, and can be seen readily if you know where to go, and do not mind long hikes in and out on semi treacherous trails in the dark 5-7 miles each way.

[furbearer365]

The Lewis unit is not lacking in any elk #s.  We see as many elk as ever.  The Winston is so over hunted, due to Weyerhauser and the way they build roads, it is scary, but there are plenty of elk in that unit as well if you know where to look.  As for not finding a true trophy in the Margaret, how hard are you willing to hunt?  ARE YOU willing to pass on smaller bulls?  The big boys are there, and can be seen readily if you know where to go, and do not mind long hikes in and out on semi treacherous trails in the dark 5-7 miles each way.
[/quote]

If I know the unit?  You could spin me around and drop me off in the middle and would be home before nighttime.  But you seem to have been missing my point because you said everything I did already.  My basis for having SOME SORT of general season is to improve numbers all over.  I never said that the Toutle or Margaret should just all of the sudden go OTC, that would be a slaughter.  I was advising opening up some short of early bow tag, or maybe even have archery season be OTC for cows only, or make it OTC for spikes with a muzzleloader for 5 days.  Something to take the pressure off the surrounding units that you agreed are way overhunted.  Have a short season at somepoint to take the pressure off the surrounding units would only benefit all the units, still leaving a good number of those great bulls to be had.

[erk444]

If they made magaret a general season hunt, that place would be crazy crowded! Might not be the biggest bulls in there, but theres TONS of them. I wish I knew a general season area with that many bulls in it, I would hunt there in a heartbeat. Although, I'm sure hoof rot is taking its toll

I don't think crowds would or will likely be a problem.  I say that because, with the success of Vail & PeEll, Weyco will be charging for access to St Helen's, likely next year.  They won't admit to it if you ask until they are ready to go, but it's coming.  No reason to think its not. 

Then if/when WDFW makes it OTC, it will still, in essence be a "Limited" pressure area.

I think that's a pretty good idea. I hate the thought of paying an access fee, but I would love to hunt bulls in there.....Im so torn!

[backcountry55]

Furbearer365 what are you talking about gray back being top draw for late it's OTC early and late for elk archery and it sucks you be lucky to see elk in that unit deer different story!

[Come Get Some]

I have been hunting the area since I was 14. I am 55 now. A 300" bull in the Toutle .I dont think so. Maybe back in the early to mid eighties