Post by: bigmacc on September 30, 2013, 07:02:59 PM
Post by: hillbillyhunting on September 30, 2013, 07:13:21 PM
Post by: mkcj on September 30, 2013, 07:19:32 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on September 30, 2013, 07:25:51 PM
Post by: mkcj on September 30, 2013, 07:37:45 PM
Post by: bigmacc on September 30, 2013, 07:38:37 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on September 30, 2013, 08:03:20 PM
Does anyone else have a bad feeling about the way the season is starting, meaning with this early snow it's going to start moving the herd down which will be great for hunting. There is the problem though can the herd sustain many more migrating buck's that might be taken than on a normal year, Then including the ever growing predator problem we have >:(. I hope I'm wrong
I get the same feeling a lot less deer same amount of hunters plus this wether if it stays this way will push the herds lower earlier than I have ever seen. Well at least some people will get some nice bucks and bulls before the wolves eat them. :bash:
Post by: Ridgerunner on September 30, 2013, 08:59:04 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on September 30, 2013, 09:02:06 PM
I have sent comments to the WDFW conveying my displeasure for how the area is handled but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Then there is the local wildlife biologist who consistently suggests that the deer population is more than adequate for the region. Everyone knows he is just buying his time until he retires. My suggestion to you is to email the WDFW and state your observations. Everyone knows the area is one of the most impacted by the growth in the wolf population. Again thanks for conveying your observations. The days of the mighty Methow herd are a thing of the past.
Post by: mkcj on October 01, 2013, 12:07:57 AM
Post by: MADMAX on October 01, 2013, 05:51:13 AM
I checked the 10 day forecast , sounds like the snow level going back up
Post by: MtnMuley on October 01, 2013, 09:54:31 AM
Post by: bigmacc on October 01, 2013, 04:20:05 PM
The WDFW report at the recent meeting over here was that there was a 34:100 buck to doe ratio during their counts last year. What they forgot to mention was how many overall deer to get this ratio. "They didn't have the exact numbers" LOL. I'm betting 100 :twocents:. Again, these studies are ridiculous, bacause they are done when all the deer are down, making them easier to see from the air. Lot's of country for those deer to disperse in during hunting seasons. Also, they said there was a 25% harvest rate last year and that the numbers were high for a successful season. Really? No way. Again, what they failed to mention is that these were the numbers for the whole state including second deer tags and antlerless tags throughout all the seasons. Good luck to everybody hunting north central WA this year, and don't expect a banner year like they're predicting. Reality is, I've seen FAR less deer this year, then I've ever seen before. :twocents:
I agree...as far as their buck to doe ratios for the area,ive often wondered if they if maybe they just take a drive thru the state park or drive from one end of town to the other and count the deer in peoples yards :chuckle:..Some of the years weve been the most succesful were years the ratio was 8 or 9 per 100 and bucks were everywhere :dunno:...before he retired years ago,Jim Mountjoy(the warden at the time)would come to our camp a few times during the season,sit around the fire and b.s with us,we would pick his brain and sometimes hed pick ours to find out where the deer were.hes a good man and one of the last ones i myself could really believe.
Post by: buckfvr on October 01, 2013, 04:26:17 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 01, 2013, 04:31:35 PM
The WDFW report at the recent meeting over here was that there was a 34:100 buck to doe ratio during their counts last year. What they forgot to mention was how many overall deer to get this ratio. "They didn't have the exact numbers" LOL. I'm betting 100 :twocents:. Again, these studies are ridiculous, bacause they are done when all the deer are down, making them easier to see from the air. Lot's of country for those deer to disperse in during hunting seasons. Also, they said there was a 25% harvest rate last year and that the numbers were high for a successful season. Really? No way. Again, what they failed to mention is that these were the numbers for the whole state including second deer tags and antlerless tags throughout all the seasons. Good luck to everybody hunting north central WA this year, and don't expect a banner year like they're predicting. Reality is, I've seen FAR less deer this year, then I've ever seen before. :twocents:
I agree...as far as their buck to doe ratios for the area,ive often wondered if they if maybe they just take a drive thru the state park or drive from one end of town to the other and count the deer in peoples yards :chuckle:..Some of the years weve been the most succesful were years the ratio was 8 or 9 per 100 and bucks were everywhere :dunno:...before he retired years ago,Jim Mountjoy(the warden at the time)would come to our camp a few times during the season,sit around the fire and b.s with us,we would pick his brain and sometimes hed pick ours to find out where the deer were.hes a good man and one of the last ones i myself could really believe.
Jim wasn't the warden, but the lands manager up there. Great guy. Pat Heenan probably was the warden up there at that time. Cal Treser is the Warden up there now, and he's the only WDFW guy in that area I'd believe a word out of.
Post by: buckfvr on October 01, 2013, 04:34:52 PM
Post by: Elkpiss on October 01, 2013, 04:43:07 PM
The WDFW report at the recent meeting over here was that there was a 34:100 buck to doe ratio during their counts last year. What they forgot to mention was how many overall deer to get this ratio. "They didn't have the exact numbers" LOL. I'm betting 100 :twocents:. Again, these studies are ridiculous, bacause they are done when all the deer are down, making them easier to see from the air. Lot's of country for those deer to disperse in during hunting seasons. Also, they said there was a 25% harvest rate last year and that the numbers were high for a successful season. Really? No way. Again, what they failed to mention is that these were the numbers for the whole state including second deer tags and antlerless tags throughout all the seasons. Good luck to everybody hunting north central WA this year, and don't expect a banner year like they're predicting. Reality is, I've seen FAR less deer this year, then I've ever seen before. :twocents:
Mtmuley :pee: :chuckle:.. No deers to shoots? dang more beers to drinks then.. :party1:
Post by: turbo on October 01, 2013, 04:59:00 PM
WDFW does not care, do you?
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 01, 2013, 05:51:12 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 01, 2013, 05:52:51 PM
Can't wait for the stories and old time pics.
eventually i,ll get the pic thing figured out but heres a good story thats not mine but was told to me from an old cowboy who was raised in the methow. i,ll just call him "friend" in the story because i havent talked to him in awhile and dont know if hed appreciate me puttin his name out there on one of these "new fangled hippie screens"(thats what he called computors :chuckle:)..here goes---friend and his wife would come to our camp every year at least once or twice,we,d sit around the fire,eat,have a beer or two and be mesmerized by his life as a cowboy and a packer.I,m 56 now so he must be in his 80,s as he was about 25yrs older than me.About 15 yrs ago they came to camp to visit and friend told us they found the "mule deers graveyard" (with a wink at us that his wife couldnt see)..One year he said, while his wife and him were on a horseback trip in the pasayton during the summer scouting some new areas for the upcomming hunting season they came upon a box canyon/basin sort of thing that was about 300 yards wide and about 400 yards deep and all sides were straight up and down and there was one way in and one way out. They rode in and friend said under the trees all around them on the sides of the canyon were the remains of deer,50 or 60 of them he said and about 10 of them with horns still attached(3 of them he said were well over 30 inches).His wife asked him what he thaught happened and his reply to her was "well darlin, i guess we found the spot where old mule deer go to die".She was amazed by what they'd discovered and for years kept the secret he asked her to keep as far as the location of this important scientific discovery :chuckle:..he finally ended up telling her the truth (or at least what he thought happened) this was back in the late 70's/early80's i think and during the general season winter came fast and furious.Some might remember that year,the season went into the 1st wk of november and during that wk the temps dropped into the single digits and it snowed like crazy,we had a foot and a half at our camp that was about at 2500 ft elevation and the roads in the hills were about 6 inches of solid ice.The weather hit fast and hard and was even worse in the high country.What friend figured happened was when that weather came in up in the high country (which as said was a heck of a lot worse than what we got with about 5 feet of snow and 15 below up at Spanish camp) was those deer were starting to bunch up for the migration,the rut was beginning,the weather was brewing and they just plain got stuck in that canyon and couldnt get out,they took the only refuge they could under the trees to wait out a storm that wasnt gonna stop and they all died under those trees that winter.They had a little instamatic camera with them and snapped 12 pictures of the carnage...when looking at the pics and hearing the story told by an old grisled cowboy who can tell a story much better than me,it would make the hair on the back of your neck stand at attention.
Post by: mkcj on October 01, 2013, 06:41:47 PM
Post by: buckfvr on October 01, 2013, 06:53:57 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on October 01, 2013, 06:54:47 PM
Can't wait for the stories and old time pics.
eventually i,ll get the pic thing figured out but heres a good story thats not mine but was told to me from an old cowboy who was raised in the methow. i,ll just call him "friend" in the story because i havent talked to him in awhile and dont know if hed appreciate me puttin his name out there on one of these "new fangled hippie screens"(thats what he called computors :chuckle:)..here goes---friend and his wife would come to our camp every year at least once or twice,we,d sit around the fire,eat,have a beer or two and be mesmerized by his life as a cowboy and a packer.I,m 56 now so he must be in his 80,s as he was about 25yrs older than me.About 15 yrs ago they came to camp to visit and friend told us they found the "mule deers graveyard" (with a wink at us that his wife couldnt see)..One year he said, while his wife and him were on a horseback trip in the pasayton during the summer scouting some new areas for the upcomming hunting season they came upon a box canyon/basin sort of thing that was about 300 yards wide and about 400 yards deep and all sides were straight up and down and there was one way in and one way out. They rode in and friend said under the trees all around them on the sides of the canyon were the remains of deer,50 or 60 of them he said and about 10 of them with horns still attached(3 of them he said were well over 30 inches).His wife asked him what he thaught happened and his reply to her was "well darlin, i guess we found the spot where old mule deer go to die".She was amazed by what they'd discovered and for years kept the secret he asked her to keep as far as the location of this important scientific discovery :chuckle:..he finally ended up telling her the truth (or at least what he thought happened) this was back in the late 70's/early80's i think and during the general season winter came fast and furious.Some might remember that year,the season went into the 1st wk of november and during that wk the temps dropped into the single digits and it snowed like crazy,we had a foot and a half at our camp that was about at 2500 ft elevation and the roads in the hills were about 6 inches of solid ice.The weather hit fast and hard and was even worse in the high country.What friend figured happened was when that weather came in up in the high country (which as said was a heck of a lot worse than what we got with about 5 feet of snow and 15 below up at Spanish camp) was those deer were starting to bunch up for the migration,the rut was beginning,the weather was brewing and they just plain got stuck in that canyon and couldnt get out,they took the only refuge they could under the trees to wait out a storm that wasnt gonna stop and they all died under those trees that winter.They had a little instamatic camera with them and snapped 12 pictures of the carnage...when looking at the pics and hearing the story told by an old grisled cowboy who can tell a story much better than me,it would make the hair on the back of your neck stand at attention.
Wow what a sad sight that would have been! :yike:
Post by: sakoshooter on October 01, 2013, 09:15:45 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 02, 2013, 09:52:40 PM
My old hunting partner, my daughter and I hauled over 2 ton of feed donated by Excel Feeds back in the bad winter of 92/93. Worked w/WDFW on distribution into various feeders. Bad winter kill. Lost over 80% of the mule deer. There were huge piles of carcasses that we checked out. My daughter was very young but got a good education as to what happens when mother nature has her way compared to hunting and quick, humane kills. It bounced back since then but the last 4-5 yrs has been on a down hill slide. I think predators are to blame. We've had easy winters lately and there's a lot of feed in those hills. Very sad the WDFW can't see what we see so clearly.................
i remember that winter also...My dad and i went over thanksgiving weekend to checkout deer movement and take pictures,we stopped in to talk to Mountjoy and ended up hauling about 10 bags of food pellets to an old orchard down off the Burma Road. They had cut holes in the fences to let the deer get into the orchard so they could eat the darn bark off the trees! the snow was about 2 ft deep and had about 2 inches of ice on top. Someone(the owner,county or the dept)was keeping the access road plowed so we drove down the road towards the orchard and by the time we got to the fence we had about 100 starving(but very happy to see us)deer comming thru the holes in the fence and surrounding our truck! I actually had to crawl thru the sliding rear window of the truck(i was a tad smaller back then :chuckle:) because we couldnt open the doors we had so many deer piled around us. Obviousily the deer had been fed a few other times before we did cause soon as they spotted us comming down that road they couldnt get out of that fence fast enough.it was really crazy'
Post by: boneaddict on October 06, 2013, 10:24:57 AM
There were old trapper stories above graveyards you have talked about. It usually involved a big cat finding a yard of deer and eating them for the winter. I have been amazed by some of the yards I have found while tromping in that backcountry. Snow to the top of the cabin up Billygoat, but deer still managing to live there. I agree....Noble creatures. Nothing more noble than a mossyhorned muley standing up in the rocks and the fog surveying his kingdom.
Welcome :hello:
Post by: bearpaw on October 06, 2013, 10:44:10 AM
Post by: bigmacc on October 06, 2013, 12:32:27 PM
Welcome Bigmacc! I've been shouting your exact sentiments on here for a long time. Glad to hear the stories and observations and wisdom from someone who has been around for awhile and not just passing through for two weeks in October. Jim was a good man and so was Sig. I haven't met Cal yet, but I believe my dad speaks highly of him.
There were old trapper stories above graveyards you have talked about. It usually involved a big cat finding a yard of deer and eating them for the winter. I have been amazed by some of the yards I have found while tromping in that backcountry. Snow to the top of the cabin up Billygoat, but deer still managing to live there. I agree....Noble creatures. Nothing more noble than a mossyhorned muley standing up in the rocks and the fog surveying his kingdom.
Welcome :hello:
Thankyou.....I remember one year a friend and i hiked into beaver meadows. The season went into november and it was cold!! We started up the lightning creek trail and there was about 6 inches of old snow on the ground from a storm the week before.When we made it up to the meadows there was about 2 feet of snow and about 15 degrees cooler and the deer were still hanging around up there happy as clams at high tide .
Post by: boneaddict on October 06, 2013, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: mkcj on October 06, 2013, 01:38:46 PM
Post by: Jingles on October 06, 2013, 07:43:05 PM
I did a quick figure of the deer per acre and came up with 1 deer for every 123 acres in the 10 unit's that make up the methow, Now take into account that maybe half of those deer live in or near the valley floor all year and that's not many left to populate the close to 2 million acres that are left. Now those are rough figures but can you imagine if there is only 15K deer instead of 25K. :bash: I hope my number are wrong but I think there pretty close :twocents: There are so few deer now that they live in their winter range all year long because the food supply never runs out, why migrate if they are not forced to in the spring! I think most migrating deer/ bucks that do never make it to the true winter range except on very bad winters anymore.
Bet they are adding the 6 that visit my yard daily and the 20 - 25 that visit my brothers place on a regular basis
Post by: Rodney107 on October 06, 2013, 08:21:07 PM
Post by: adictd2hunting on October 06, 2013, 08:42:52 PM
Post by: adictd2hunting on October 06, 2013, 09:28:02 PM
It wasnt to bad this year for muzzy season opening morning i woke up late and hung around camp to start a fire and get coffee going. I didnt start hunting until 7:00 am. I walked over the hill and seen deer in my binos. Noticed one was a buck and headed down the hill to get closer because my ranger finder wouldnt read out pass 600 yards i got with in 350 yards and realized he was a bigger buck then i thought. So i just followed him staying down wind and closed the gap to right around 100 yards when i finally seen him bedded down next to a spike and two point that were standing staring at me while i crawled around to get close. Finally they took off and he was last in line and i shot him on the run just behind the right shoulder quatered away running. Awesome hunt. A good friend told me that if you want to shoot a buck over here you have to try and make it happen. So thats what i did. 10:30Am his dad showed up with the mules and we packed it out. So id say my methow observation was pretty dang good. Good luck to you modern guys its pumpkin patch opening morning.
nicely done, good lookin animal,congrats
Thank you
Five or six years of hunting the pumpkin patch with no luck. And three years of muzzy season with quite a few people and finally getting the chance. Its not like i use to here about. Even in the nine or so years ive hunted there has been a drastic decline in deer ive seen just in the fields. I remeber seeing hundreds of deer in the alfalfa fields , but now you might see 20 to 30.
Its crazy. Like my buddy told me. Your not going to get a deer, unless you make it happen. When it comes down to it. Its all about how you hunt. If you sit in the truck your not going to shoot a deer. Unless your lucky.
Post by: getreal711 on October 06, 2013, 09:42:44 PM
Post by: bigmacc on October 07, 2013, 05:47:24 PM
Those were the days and that was one of my favorite hunts. I could also go out before work during the season and count 200 plus deer on my morning hunt in the sage during the season. I am not sure I could count that many deer in the whole season now in the same spots.
Yes sir,those were the days.I remember in the late 70's i believe,a couple huntin pards and i were hunting one of the main migration ridges and once again the season went into the 1st week of november,the weather hit about 10 days prior and storm after storm was pounding the high country.The deer couldnt get out of there fast enough!!We knew (about) where the biggest concentrations would be comming thru and we knew they would start spreading out once the started getting closer to the valley.I'll be darned if we didnt hit the locations dead center(a little luck was involved with the hunch :chuckle:0)we must of saw 150 to 200 head a day in bunchs of 20 to 60 in a bunch.Now having said that youd probably assume we tagged out right off the bat.No sir! we hunted that ridge for 5 days straight,seeing close to 1000 deer and never a horn until the 6th day :yike:,the 1st 5 days were all does and fawns not even a spike! On that 6th day the bucks started rolling thru and the 3 of us got some beauties.To this day a hunt i'll never forget.
Post by: sakoshooter on October 07, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
The best way to make your voice heard is during the time frame when they accept comments makes sure to write a letter. I do it every year but it has to be done by more than just a few.
They've definitely gotten plenty of letters, phone calls and emails from me also but like you stated Skyvalhunter, they need to hear from lots of us rather than just a couple.
Post by: npaull on October 08, 2013, 05:51:17 PM
Quote
Too many folks living in their traditional wintering grounds. Just like most other places in the west
NO WHERE NEAR enough concern about this issue among hunters. Wolves get all the attention. Habitat loss so much more sinister and hard to fix...
Post by: 2MANY on October 08, 2013, 06:02:46 PM
People are greedy and stupid.
The commercialization of hunting and fishing will be the end of it.........soon.
Post by: buckfvr on October 08, 2013, 06:31:27 PM
QuoteToo many folks living in their traditional wintering grounds. Just like most other places in the west
NO WHERE NEAR enough concern about this issue among hunters. Wolves get all the attention. Habitat loss so much more sinister and hard to fix...
Sad but true............. :yeah:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 08, 2013, 08:37:21 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 03:15:26 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 03:18:27 PM
Back in the day when monster bucks roamed Studhorse instead of Subaru outbacks. :(QuoteToo many folks living in their traditional wintering grounds. Just like most other places in the west
NO WHERE NEAR enough concern about this issue among hunters. Wolves get all the attention. Habitat loss so much more sinister and hard to fix...
Post by: bigmacc on October 09, 2013, 04:19:59 PM
Back in the day when monster bucks roamed Studhorse instead of Subaru outbacks. :(QuoteToo many folks living in their traditional wintering grounds. Just like most other places in the west
NO WHERE NEAR enough concern about this issue among hunters. Wolves get all the attention. Habitat loss so much more sinister and hard to fix...
I cant recall a name but i remember stories of when studhorse was owned by an older couple i think,and they would charge people $1 to hunt it :dunno:. Used to here of some dandy's comming off that hill. Also Oly lungren used to tell my grandpa and grandma they could drag all the deer they wanted to off the bluffs above the ranch right down the hill to the road,just had to pay a tres
pass fee.....he told them they had to buy a jug of his apple cider everytime they did,they negotiated the trespass fee of a buck a gallon,Oly and my granparents figured that was fair,"a buck for a buck" :chuckle: :chuckle: my dad remembers when ever they hunted his property the family was going home with a lot of cider after 2 weeks of hunting :chuckle:
Post by: MtnMuley on October 09, 2013, 04:25:54 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 04:27:46 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 04:32:45 PM
You're sure bring back some old names. Remembering stories I had forgotten. Funny how one name triggers several stories about several others. :tup:
Indeed. I was going to guess who the cowboy friend was in his original post. I bet I know, but thought I'd leave it at that.
Its funny how a majority of folks on here who think they know what the Methow is like, should have seen it 20,30,40 years ago. Most of these folks never will see what kind of glory the herd was like. They are excited now when they see 30 in a field by Big Twin. and think oh there are lots of deer :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 05:43:26 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 05:58:17 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 09, 2013, 06:08:29 PM
Post by: horsehunter509 on October 09, 2013, 06:13:27 PM
Post by: horsehunter509 on October 09, 2013, 06:28:21 PM
Post by: mkcj on October 09, 2013, 06:29:12 PM
Post by: mkcj on October 09, 2013, 07:37:47 PM
They lived out on the west chewack about 3 miles it's now a B&B called "the bend in the river" I think just before the old apple orchard on the left side of Rd, They were the reason we bought our place there in 67' and the whole group of Friends/hunters started to hunt that area instead of hunting grouse Mnt above lake Chelan. I always remember what Bill would say when I asked him if he had gotten a deer yet and he would just reply "No I'm waiting for the local season to start" I'm pretty sure they never went without a deer in the freezer. I do know that he hunted on a piece of property that was just up the Cub Cr rd on the right I don't remember the name but he always said the Doctor's place.bigmacc or Bone did either of you know Bill & Nadine Ohms, Dick McScott or maybe Harvey Cox?
The Ohms name sounds familiar to me
Post by: getreal711 on October 09, 2013, 08:02:47 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 10, 2013, 08:39:48 AM
bigmacc or Bone did either of you know Bill & Nadine Ohms, Dick McScott or maybe Harvey Cox?
I don't recognize them. I stink at names though and for the most part avoided Winthrop like the plague. Like BMac said, the Ohms sort of sounds familiar, but not closely.
Post by: quadrafire on October 10, 2013, 10:28:28 AM
Post by: getreal711 on October 10, 2013, 10:50:09 AM