Post by: rtspring on November 04, 2013, 06:46:45 PM
I will say this once just like I told my hunting partners during this Modern Season. Elk are being hunted, they sure as heck won't stand on the side of the road to be shot at everyday... Our elk numbers are not decreasing due to hunting, predators or indians. Anyone who states different I would love to debate you any day of the week. Our elk numbers are as strong as they have ever been since I started hunting in 1985. I truly believe there is no accurate count on the elk, no way can that be done in my opinion... 13,000 to 15,000 would be my best guess...
I see more elk in a year than an average guy has seen maybe in his lifetime. From May until November I pretty much live in the mountains. There are tons of elk and I mean a bunch.. I have photos and trail cam photos to prove the fact the herd is doing great. Just because you drive up the night before the opener of Modern and can't find any elk does not mean they don't exist, THEY ARE HIDING!!!!
One thing is bothering me, I know the quality of animals in this unit and to see ANY BULL tag holders taking a spike is very sad to me. Do the tag some justice and kill a branched antlered bull!!! Not a SPIKE!!! that rule should be changed.......... in my opinion of course..
I love hunting more than most, I like hunting spikes every year! I would fight the good fight if others push for a draw only hunt!!! If you don;t like hunting in Washington go somewhere else and leave the rules the way they are. Spikes are plentiful, you just have to find them.. No way in heck will you kill a spike every year!!! that just doesn't happen. So take hunting for what it is, good memories, good friends, and living in Gods Country. Killing an animal is a bonus!!!!!! You can't always win..............
Migration??? I think that is WAY WAY WAY over blown in this state! Snow fall does help hunting a bunch but is not critical to the taking of elk on a regular basis. I find elk all summer long under 2000 feet and all the way up to 5500... they are where the food is and will stay there until pushed by hunting or other means....
I am no fan of the natives hunting as they please! Not when they shoot spike deer and we have to shoot three points!!!! How is that game management??? But I refuse to let tribal hunting be the reason for me not getting an animal... We have debated tribal hunting to heck and back!!!
laying the blame on them is just another excuse for us hunters...
Gate off roads??? uh heck no, only during the hard winter months would I support such an idea.. We pay taxes and therefore should have access to all lands by vehicle if there is a road. You can always hike away from roads!! Elderly and handicap people should have access to all roads on state land!!!
I have seen hunting back in the 80's where you seldom seen a branched bull, let alone 340 PLUS BULL!!! Since the start of spike only hunting in these units I see a big bull pretty much any time I want. If you are not seeing them, put more boot leather on the ground because they are there!!
My season this year sucked!!! I seen 6 elk in 7 days of all day hunting and that really goes to show you how well they can hide. I had elk all around me prior to the opener that included 6 different spikes... Guess what? they vanished......... But I got to enjoy the great outdoors with great friends and my father... No way will I let not getting an elk throw dirt on my party....
Mark my word, those that keep fighting for a draw only state. You will be sad the day you cannot go elk hunting because you didn't get drawn... enjoy it for what it is. this is the state we live in where WDFW wants money over hunter satisfaction.... They will never be able to please all of us because of the numbers of hunters far outnumber the number of animals...
Our herds are doing great, one last word!!!! SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT and SCOUT some more........
KURT
Post by: cryder on November 04, 2013, 07:00:11 PM
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on November 04, 2013, 07:38:21 PM
Post by: Naches Sportsman on November 04, 2013, 07:43:57 PM
Post by: adamR on November 04, 2013, 07:51:49 PM
I knew a hunter during modern with a bethel bull tag that didn't want to hunt that hard so I chose not to point him in the direction of a 6 point I knew of. He ate his tag because he didn't do it justice and then had the nerve to tell me how terrible the hunting was this year... Get off your butt and work for the animal or don't complain when you don't get one!
Post by: muleyslayer on November 04, 2013, 07:54:19 PM
Post by: elkfins on November 04, 2013, 09:18:29 PM
For me, the rush is the quality encounters with big bulls and by quality I mean up close and personal. Since the spike only restrictions were put in place, these quality encounters have increased for me tenfold. The herd is healthy and the genetics are good. I may not get a spike each year but I do see lots of big bulls and that is the draw for me.
Post by: Huntboy on November 04, 2013, 09:52:07 PM
Post by: summertime blues on November 04, 2013, 10:35:36 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 06:41:29 AM
Post by: brutus1 on November 05, 2013, 07:12:03 AM
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 07:26:19 AM
No doubt it's about the memories! often how much time you put into it directly affects your success , but as RT has proved some years it just doesn't come together no matter how hard you work , that's just hunting . Don't worry buddy there's next year only six months intill your back at it . thank's for all the good times this season ! now it's your turn to draw a tag ...Coach !
We had a blast!!! I will let you hold my bullets when I draw that tag!! PS, Big Nasty has a brother in the Meadow... He will be a stud next year.. I will send pics when I get them loaded up...
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 05, 2013, 07:44:36 AM
Post by: 334OKH on November 05, 2013, 08:30:13 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 05, 2013, 08:39:09 AM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 05, 2013, 08:41:50 AM
Post by: Fish4Fun on November 05, 2013, 09:07:58 AM
Post by: Whitpirate on November 05, 2013, 09:12:35 AM
I've got some special menus for next year getting developed.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on November 05, 2013, 01:30:47 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on November 05, 2013, 02:09:23 PM
The only part I'm going to disagree with is the part about shooting a spike with a bull permit. If that guy wants to tag a spike with his bull permit go ahead. I'm not ever going to tell a hunter what he should or shouldn't shoot with his own tag. That's his decision and his alone.
Post by: Buzz2401 on November 05, 2013, 02:12:37 PM
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 03:05:24 PM
:tup:The only part I'm going to disagree with is the part about shooting a spike with a bull permit. If that guy wants to tag a spike with his bull permit go ahead. I'm not ever going to tell a hunter what he should or shouldn't shoot with his own tag. That's his decision and his alone.
Some people wait a lifetime to draw a ANY BULL tag!!! Really, would you waste it on a spike??? Then just buy the OTC tag and let others shoot the branched bulls.
1. Your taking away from the general season folks
2. If all you can get is a spike, you as a hunter did not do your job.
3. The purpose of a Any Bull tag is to take branched antlered bulls out of the herd.
4. Like I have said, if some who drew the any bull tag knew the quality of animals , no way would they shoot a spike..
But to each is his own...
Post by: farmin4u_98948 on November 05, 2013, 03:16:33 PM
Post by: dvolmer on November 05, 2013, 03:38:58 PM
:tup:The only part I'm going to disagree with is the part about shooting a spike with a bull permit. If that guy wants to tag a spike with his bull permit go ahead. I'm not ever going to tell a hunter what he should or shouldn't shoot with his own tag. That's his decision and his alone.
Some people wait a lifetime to draw a ANY BULL tag!!! Really, would you waste it on a spike??? Then just buy the OTC tag and let others shoot the branched bulls.
1. Your taking away from the general season folks
2. If all you can get is a spike, you as a hunter did not do your job.
3. The purpose of a Any Bull tag is to take branched antlered bulls out of the herd.
4. Like I have said, if some who drew the any bull tag knew the quality of animals , no way would they shoot a spike..
But to each is his own...
I totally agree with this. If you are a meat hunter then get a cow tag or go after spike. Big bull tags should be a coveted treasure. I would pass up 10 spikes and go without before I would waste my big bull tag on a spike. just my thoughts.
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 05, 2013, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on November 05, 2013, 04:04:22 PM
Quote
dvolmer / I would pass up 10 spikes and go without before I would waste my big bull tag on a spike. just my thoughts.Really? You would rather go home without any meat than " waste" your bull tag on a spike. Why would it be a " waste" to tag a spike. I had Rimrock any bull tag last year and wound up tagging nothing. Had the opportunity to shoot a spike the first 15 minutes of the general opener. Watched him for 2 hours and decided not to shoot because I still had 9 days to find " the bull". Guess what never found it, not for lack of trying . The bulls just weren't where they where when I was there all summer scouting.
Post by: kirkl on November 05, 2013, 04:17:31 PM
:tup:The only part I'm going to disagree with is the part about shooting a spike with a bull permit. If that guy wants to tag a spike with his bull permit go ahead. I'm not ever going to tell a hunter what he should or shouldn't shoot with his own tag. That's his decision and his alone.
Some people wait a lifetime to draw a ANY BULL tag!!! Really, would you waste it on a spike??? Then just buy the OTC tag and let others shoot the branched bulls.
1. Your taking away from the general season folks
2. If all you can get is a spike, you as a hunter did not do your job.
3. The purpose of a Any Bull tag is to take branched antlered bulls out of the herd.
4. Like I have said, if some who drew the any bull tag knew the quality of animals , no way would they shoot a spike..
But to each is his own...
I guess you could start paying for people's tags and permits and their hunting trip
Costs then you could tell them what they can and can't shoot! Not everyone can get out and hike 12 miles in a day for 9 days straight looking for elk ( I'd like to put a gps on a lot of these people for their real miles)
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 04:21:19 PM
Yeah some guys do wait a life time some guys get lucky and draw quick. If they really wanted only big branched bulls taken wdfw needs to put a better restrictions on it like a 3pt min then. Everyone has a fair chance at drawing a tag and just because you and I wouldn't waste a quality tag on a spike doesn't mean someone else can't. I've never killed a really big bull but I have killed a lot of elk and I'm not sure I would ever change any of those experience for one big bull. Those guys put there pants on the same way I do. Sometimes hunting is more than the trophy you put on the wall.
Never said anything about trophy hunting, just branched bulls.. I seen three spikes shot on the opener by ANY BULL tag holders??? Wow!!! Why even buy a special permit?
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 04:25:05 PM
:tup:The only part I'm going to disagree with is the part about shooting a spike with a bull permit. If that guy wants to tag a spike with his bull permit go ahead. I'm not ever going to tell a hunter what he should or shouldn't shoot with his own tag. That's his decision and his alone.
Some people wait a lifetime to draw a ANY BULL tag!!! Really, would you waste it on a spike??? Then just buy the OTC tag and let others shoot the branched bulls.
1. Your taking away from the general season folks
2. If all you can get is a spike, you as a hunter did not do your job.
3. The purpose of a Any Bull tag is to take branched antlered bulls out of the herd.
4. Like I have said, if some who drew the any bull tag knew the quality of animals , no way would they shoot a spike..
But to each is his own...
I guess you could start paying for people's tags and permits and their hunting trip
Costs then you could tell them what they can and can't shoot! Not everyone can get out and hike 12 miles in a day for 9 days straight looking for elk ( I'd like to put a gps on a lot of these people for their real miles)
Not into telling anyone what to shoot. Just not sure why some put in the time and money to draw a coveted tag then shoot a spike? Just dont make sense, last day spike sure! But no way until the last day..
I think the regs should be changed to branched antlered bull vice any bull..
Post by: Buckmark on November 05, 2013, 04:28:49 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 04:32:53 PM
Post by: h20hunter on November 05, 2013, 04:44:05 PM
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 04:45:58 PM
I love how rt went from knowing very little about the elk or hunting them in this area to the elk whisperer... :chuckle:
Just a novice with 28 years in this same patch of woods.. I wish I could learn about elk quicker....
Post by: Buckmark on November 05, 2013, 04:46:55 PM
28yrs in the same patch huh?I love how rt went from knowing very little about the elk or hunting them in this area to the elk whisperer... :chuckle:
Just a novice with 28 years in this same patch of woods.. I wish I could learn about elk quicker....
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 04:53:33 PM
28yrs in the same patch huh?I love how rt went from knowing very little about the elk or hunting them in this area to the elk whisperer... :chuckle:
Just a novice with 28 years in this same patch of woods.. I wish I could learn about elk quicker....
Yes sir, I refuse to move. Not the same camp spot but same area.. No GPS needed :chuckle:
Post by: Buckmark on November 05, 2013, 05:00:05 PM
But then what do i know?
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 05:05:39 PM
Ok, not sure how someone goes from being new to the state and asking for advice on area's to an elk guru.
But then what do i know?
New to the state?? You got me mixed up with someone else? Never asked for advice on Peaches Ridge area? Im lost here??
I lived here almost 35 years of my 40 years on earth
Post by: Buckmark on November 05, 2013, 05:08:23 PM
2964Virtual Campfire / one last hunt with dad.......looking for some help..........Ok, not sure how someone goes from being new to the state and asking for advice on area's to an elk guru.
But then what do i know?
New to the state?? You got me mixed up with someone else? Never asked for advice on Peaches Ridge area? Im lost here??
I lived here almost 35 years of my 40 years on earth
« on: October 06, 2010, 10:09:44 AM »
Howdy all,
Well Maybe this will get me somewhere. Maybe not... Not looking for honey holes just a few places to try.........
My dad is 74 and I am sure this will be his last hunt, He can no longer run, for that matter walk up and down the hills. So I have decided to hunt with him one last time (he says this will be his last) My goal is not really to get my animals, but stick with trying to get my dad both a deer and an elk. I would rather see the smile on his face one last time.....
anyway we are pretty new to the state and we will be hunting GMU 346 Little Naches...... Modern Firearm...........
anyone have any tips, pointers, anything would help.....
thank you!!!!!!!!!!
PM ME IF YOU WANT.....................
*
:dunno:
Post by: Buckmark on November 05, 2013, 05:10:08 PM
*
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 05:14:56 PM
Not starting a pissing match, just thought it was funny that you asked for advice on 346, said you were new to the state and now you are the elk guru...?
*
I was in th Navy gone for a few years. No scouting done at all in a few years at that time... Things change when your gone a few years. My father is still able to hunt a little..
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 05:23:53 PM
Not starting a pissing match, just thought it was funny that you asked for advice on 346, said you were new to the state and now you are the elk guru...?
*
I was in th Navy gone for a few years. No scouting done at all in a few years at that time... Things change when your gone a few years. My father is still able to hunt a little..
I see where your coming from.. No big deal. 08 I hunted Rosies in Raymond. 2010 I think is when I drew the cow tag and hadnt been around at all..
No ego or bonus points for me but I know 346 very very well and have proved it several times over... Im always looking to learn also, the dsy we stop learning we might as well quit hunting! Back on topic now?
Post by: D-Rock425 on November 05, 2013, 05:50:39 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on November 05, 2013, 06:03:32 PM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on November 05, 2013, 07:26:26 PM
And RT has only posted his opinion, not science. Like D rock said. He must have never bow hunted. Any notch is a trophy with a bow.
Post by: Rainier10 on November 05, 2013, 07:53:42 PM
I think if you get a tag it is your option of how to fill it or not. Just my :twocents:
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 08:07:23 PM
When you start talking about quality of animals and not shooting spikes because of the quality of bulls in the are that's trophy hunting. Is it not? And to say that a hunter didn't do his job if he doesn't fill his branched bull tag is the biggest crock I've ever heard on this forum. I guess you've never bow hunted.
No thats a Branched antler bull tag thay THEY submitted a special app for!!! No need to apply if your gonna shoot a spike! You can do that with a OTC tag!!
Jesus, some of you find anything to moan about... Get off the trophy bandwagon!!! Yes my house is full of 400 plus bulls!!! NOT!!!!
Post by: Jimmy33 on November 05, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 08:14:57 PM
I will tell you that I live in the unit that I hunt...340. This year, My Dad and I both had bull tags. We have both killed elk so the bull that we were going to fill our tag with this year wouldn't have been our first. On scouting trips, I saw plenty of big bulls and had many back-up plans to back-up plans. I killed my bull the first week. I was not being picky, just got lucky and shot a small 6 point. We did not see a ton of elk and we hunted our butts off. If my Dad would have shot a spike...I would have been totally happy and proud of him. If you elk hunt, you understand how difficult the hunting can be. I have hunted entire seasons and never saw an elk...in the area that I live in. My Dad has been doing it for 40 years and he would not have thought twice about shooting a spike. To say that he would not have been doing his job if he shot a spike is ridiculous.
So yet again? Why submit an app if he or anyone else is going to pull the trigger on a spike??? Why Apply? Leave those tags for guys who will actually try to get a branched antlered bull... Common Sense applies here
Post by: bobcat on November 05, 2013, 08:19:48 PM
I will tell you that I live in the unit that I hunt...340. This year, My Dad and I both had bull tags. We have both killed elk so the bull that we were going to fill our tag with this year wouldn't have been our first. On scouting trips, I saw plenty of big bulls and had many back-up plans to back-up plans. I killed my bull the first week. I was not being picky, just got lucky and shot a small 6 point. We did not see a ton of elk and we hunted our butts off. If my Dad would have shot a spike...I would have been totally happy and proud of him. If you elk hunt, you understand how difficult the hunting can be. I have hunted entire seasons and never saw an elk...in the area that I live in. My Dad has been doing it for 40 years and he would not have thought twice about shooting a spike. To say that he would not have been doing his job if he shot a spike is ridiculous.
So yet again? Why submit an app if he or anyone else is going to pull the trigger on a spike??? Why Apply? Leave those tags for guys who will actually try to get a branched antlered bull... Common Sense applies here
It's their points, their choice. It's not a "big bull" permit as many like to call it. It's an "any bull" permit. It gives you an advantage in hunting 5 days before the general season starts. If someone is happy to take a spike with the permit that they burned their points on, then that's all that matters.
Post by: Jimmy33 on November 05, 2013, 08:21:51 PM
Post by: rtspring on November 05, 2013, 08:23:07 PM
Post by: Bob33 on November 05, 2013, 08:25:57 PM
:yeah:I will tell you that I live in the unit that I hunt...340. This year, My Dad and I both had bull tags. We have both killed elk so the bull that we were going to fill our tag with this year wouldn't have been our first. On scouting trips, I saw plenty of big bulls and had many back-up plans to back-up plans. I killed my bull the first week. I was not being picky, just got lucky and shot a small 6 point. We did not see a ton of elk and we hunted our butts off. If my Dad would have shot a spike...I would have been totally happy and proud of him. If you elk hunt, you understand how difficult the hunting can be. I have hunted entire seasons and never saw an elk...in the area that I live in. My Dad has been doing it for 40 years and he would not have thought twice about shooting a spike. To say that he would not have been doing his job if he shot a spike is ridiculous.
So yet again? Why submit an app if he or anyone else is going to pull the trigger on a spike??? Why Apply? Leave those tags for guys who will actually try to get a branched antlered bull... Common Sense applies here
It's their points, their choice. It's not a "big bull" permit as many like to call it. It's an "any bull" permit. It gives you and advantage in hunting 5 days before the general season starts. If someone is happy to take a spike with the permit that they burned their points on, then that's all that matters.
Good grief. We have members advocating that WDFW should restrict what hunters can and cannot shoot with their permits.
"Quality" and "trophy" should be defined by the permit holder.
Post by: Jimmy33 on November 05, 2013, 08:31:39 PM
Post by: Jimmy33 on November 05, 2013, 08:32:24 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on November 05, 2013, 08:35:10 PM
Sure it is their choice! But why not go after a branched bull? You waste an average of 10 or more points to kill a spike? Makes no sense at all!!
What's to say they aren't after a big bull? I am sure when people get there permits there hopes are high, elk hunting is hard and success rates are low, the average person I would guess just want the opportunity at notching there tag IMO. I would have no problem with fill my branched antler tag with a good eating spike.
Post by: JPhelps on November 05, 2013, 08:36:24 PM
Post by: PlateauNDN on November 05, 2013, 08:48:09 PM
All i'm gonna say on shooting a bull is if i'm along he won't be able to shoot because i'm gonna hold his bullets ! Really some of us guys get back into country that is flat hell to get and elk out of , there's no way i'm gonna go int one of those spots to pack out a lil spike , but if it'sd a throphy animal and that's what it takes to get to him then i'm In .
That's how I roll. If I'm going to drop into some deep nasty stuff it better be worth otherwise why doit. Meat hunts can be done with far less effort.
I get what RT is conveying and ill apply my story. I applied for 5 years hoping to draw an OIL tag and when I finally did I knew I probably won't draw it again so am I going to waste it on some young male or am I going to hold out to the last day possible searching for "the one"? Of course I held out and tagged "the one", IMO it wouldve been a waste to shoot the first legal animal and not weigh my options.
Post by: Mfowl on November 05, 2013, 08:56:01 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 09:05:04 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 09:07:28 PM
I filled an any bull tag on a spike. I was happy to do it too! The hunting was tough! It was hot, the elk were extremely nocturnal and there was smoke blowing in and out like fog from the big Colockum fire 2 years ago. I scouted before the season and showed up 4 days prior to the opener to continue scouting. I logged alot of miles prior to filling my tag and feel like I earned it. It was the first elk tag I and my 2 buddies have ever successfully filled. It was a great experience. Of course I dreampt about trophy bulls leading up to my hunt but the reality was I was lucky to get a chance due to the conditions. The few other bull tag holders I spoke with were experiencing the same luck. I feel fortunate to have been able to notch that tag at all. I won't knock a guy for filling his tag, any elk's a good elk!archery tag or rifle ? curious
Post by: Mfowl on November 05, 2013, 09:11:45 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 09:16:03 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on November 05, 2013, 09:16:25 PM
Draw the permit and use it as an opportunity or season extender to take whatever is legal if you choose.
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 09:21:59 PM
If you are not going to kill the biggest bull of your life or if you are going to put the rack in the shed then why kill a big stinky rutted up bull when you could kill a tender "eating" bull?I see and hear people making excuses to why they shot the elk they did , that kinda bugs me we owe more respect to the harvest , if a guy is proud of a rag horn I will never bash him but if he whines about it I wont pull any punches either .
Draw the permit and use it as an opportunity or season extender to take whatever is legal if you choose.
Post by: Mfowl on November 05, 2013, 09:22:59 PM
Post by: coachcw on November 05, 2013, 09:29:24 PM
Post by: Mfowl on November 05, 2013, 09:44:53 PM
Post by: Greenhorn on November 05, 2013, 10:55:13 PM
Post by: Buzz2401 on November 06, 2013, 07:06:55 AM
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 07:15:40 AM
The only reason I put in for a "any bull" tag is so that I get a chance to hunt the woods with far fewer people then any of the general seasons. I have killed 14 elk out of the yakima herd in the last 20 years and I have seen the quality of animals it holds. That being said I don't care what another hunter wants to shoot. There are a ton of spikes out there so the few spikes taken by "any bull" tag holders aren't gonna make a big impact. Also the "any bull" tags have nothing to do with removing mature bulls from the herd, it is simply a way to provide a chance for hunters to hunt mature bulls. If they wanted it to remove mature bulls they would make it 5 point or better for those permits.
You may want to talk to a Bio to shore up that statement...
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 07:23:25 AM
The only reason I put in for a "any bull" tag is so that I get a chance to hunt the woods with far fewer people then any of the general seasons. I have killed 14 elk out of the yakima herd in the last 20 years and I have seen the quality of animals it holds. That being said I don't care what another hunter wants to shoot. There are a ton of spikes out there so the few spikes taken by "any bull" tag holders aren't gonna make a big impact. Also the "any bull" tags have nothing to do with removing mature bulls from the herd, it is simply a way to provide a chance for hunters to hunt mature bulls. If they wanted it to remove mature bulls they would make it 5 point or better for those permits.
Not a big impact? For every spike shot by a any bull tag holder, the general guys percentage drops. Does it not?? Not being a jerk but it has a great impact on the OTC guys chances who's chances are at 5 percent or lower already...
Fact! They are taking away the chances of OTC guys. So you get to hunt 5 days early? Not alot of advantage there, deer Modern guys have the elk moving already..
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 07:25:41 AM
So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 07:36:27 AM
So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Any bull that doesn't take away from the OTC crowd. So 2x2 or above.. I will fun some numbers here in a bit to show the dramatic changes each spike taken by a Any Bull tag holder makes on the general season crowd.
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 07:41:52 AM
Post by: boneaddict on November 06, 2013, 07:46:29 AM
There has been alot of chat on here lately about the 342,346, 336 and 340 elk herds..
I will say this once just like I told my hunting partners during this Modern Season. Elk are being hunted, they sure as heck won't stand on the side of the road to be shot at everyday... Our elk numbers are not decreasing due to hunting, predators or indians. Anyone who states different I would love to debate you any day of the week. Our elk numbers are as strong as they have ever been since I started hunting in 1985. I truly believe there is no accurate count on the elk, no way can that be done in my opinion... 13,000 to 15,000 would be my best guess...
I see more elk in a year than an average guy has seen maybe in his lifetime. From May until November I pretty much live in the mountains. There are tons of elk and I mean a bunch.. I have photos and trail cam photos to prove the fact the herd is doing great. Just because you drive up the night before the opener of Modern and can't find any elk does not mean they don't exist, THEY ARE HIDING!!!!
One thing is bothering me, I know the quality of animals in this unit and to see ANY BULL tag holders taking a spike is very sad to me. Do the tag some justice and kill a branched antlered bull!!! Not a SPIKE!!! that rule should be changed.......... in my opinion of course..
I love hunting more than most, I like hunting spikes every year! I would fight the good fight if others push for a draw only hunt!!! If you don;t like hunting in Washington go somewhere else and leave the rules the way they are. Spikes are plentiful, you just have to find them.. No way in heck will you kill a spike every year!!! that just doesn't happen. So take hunting for what it is, good memories, good friends, and living in Gods Country. Killing an animal is a bonus!!!!!! You can't always win..............
Migration??? I think that is WAY WAY WAY over blown in this state! Snow fall does help hunting a bunch but is not critical to the taking of elk on a regular basis. I find elk all summer long under 2000 feet and all the way up to 5500... they are where the food is and will stay there until pushed by hunting or other means....
I am no fan of the natives hunting as they please! Not when they shoot spike deer and we have to shoot three points!!!! How is that game management??? But I refuse to let tribal hunting be the reason for me not getting an animal... We have debated tribal hunting to heck and back!!!
laying the blame on them is just another excuse for us hunters...
Gate off roads??? uh heck no, only during the hard winter months would I support such an idea.. We pay taxes and therefore should have access to all lands by vehicle if there is a road. You can always hike away from roads!! Elderly and handicap people should have access to all roads on state land!!!
I have seen hunting back in the 80's where you seldom seen a branched bull, let alone 340 PLUS BULL!!! Since the start of spike only hunting in these units I see a big bull pretty much any time I want. If you are not seeing them, put more boot leather on the ground because they are there!!
My season this year sucked!!! I seen 6 elk in 7 days of all day hunting and that really goes to show you how well they can hide. I had elk all around me prior to the opener that included 6 different spikes... Guess what? they vanished......... But I got to enjoy the great outdoors with great friends and my father... No way will I let not getting an elk throw dirt on my party....
Mark my word, those that keep fighting for a draw only state. You will be sad the day you cannot go elk hunting because you didn't get drawn... enjoy it for what it is. this is the state we live in where WDFW wants money over hunter satisfaction.... They will never be able to please all of us because of the numbers of hunters far outnumber the number of animals...
Our herds are doing great, one last word!!!! SCOUT SCOUT SCOUT and SCOUT some more........
KURT
I have to agree with RT. I am a little more against tribal hunting than he is(as stated), mostly due to the trophy onslaught in the Clock, and the shooting of them out of the feeding stations. I'd sure like to get them on the same page as everyone else. I could careless if a trophy guy wants to shoot a spike or not. That's their problem. I agree with his evaluation of the herd. That may chance when the wolves get a foothold. Time will tell. Now to read the rest of the three pages.
Post by: kirkl on November 06, 2013, 07:46:39 AM
I am agreeing with Rt on what all he is saying. IMO people who draw bull tags should only be allowed to shoot 2 point or better elk.
why waste all your money you've spent trying to draw the tag? I will never shoot a spike if I draw a bull tag. to me, that is un-sportsmans like manner. If you want to hunt spike, buy a general spike tag.
Lmao, now its un-sportsman like to shoot a spike (which is legal mind you) instead of a big bull. Man you guys kill me.
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 07:50:03 AM
By not allowing the any bull tag holder to kill a spike you would be taking oppurtunity away there.
Whats worse? Taking away from 125 Any Bull Tag permit holders or 5,000 Otc guys in say a 50 square mile area? This is strictly about unit 346. Look at the numbers and it shows the effects.. Unfortunately no one has the real numbers..
Post by: boneaddict on November 06, 2013, 07:53:25 AM
Post by: kirkl on November 06, 2013, 07:56:08 AM
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 07:56:23 AM
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 07:58:22 AM
Post by: Rainier10 on November 06, 2013, 08:02:53 AM
So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Any bull that doesn't take away from the OTC crowd. So 2x2 or above.. I will fun some numbers here in a bit to show the dramatic changes each spike taken by a Any Bull tag holder makes on the general season crowd.
If there are 20 any bull tag holders and 5 of them shooting spikes greatly reduces OTC tag holder chances then the 15 guys that don't fill that any bull tag or fill it "drastically" increase the OTC tag holder odds. That is 15 guys that if they only had OTC tags would be shooting spikes or at least reducing the odds of the other OTC guys.
I just don't see how an elk hunter that would be an OTC spike shooter without a permit drastically reduces everyone else's odds when he has an anybull tag and shoots a spike. Without the any bull tag he would be an OTC guy and shoot the spike anyway.
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 08:09:54 AM
Waste of a tag can only be defined by a hunter looking down on another.
WASTE. Was a bad choice of wording on my part!! For that I offer an apology. Any elk killed by anyone is dang sure not a waste. It was well earned!!!
I just wish I could help all of them get a bull of a lifetime in this unit. By far my greatest hunt ever was the 4x4 Rosie in 08. Trophy? Not to some but he hangs on my wall to this day as a Trophy..
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 08:11:20 AM
So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Any bull that doesn't take away from the OTC crowd. So 2x2 or above.. I will fun some numbers here in a bit to show the dramatic changes each spike taken by a Any Bull tag holder makes on the general season crowd.
I just don't see how an elk hunter that would be an OTC spike shooter without a permit drastically reduces everyone else's odds when he has an anybull tag and shoots a spike. Without the any bull tag he would be an OTC guy and shoot the spike anyway.
You are stealing my ammo :chuckle:
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 08:19:32 AM
So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Any bull that doesn't take away from the OTC crowd. So 2x2 or above.. I will fun some numbers here in a bit to show the dramatic changes each spike taken by a Any Bull tag holder makes on the general season crowd.
I just don't see how an elk hunter that would be an OTC spike shooter without a permit drastically reduces everyone else's odds when he has an anybull tag and shoots a spike. Without the any bull tag he would be an OTC guy and shoot the spike anyway.
You are stealing my ammo :chuckle:
Easy, so the Any Bull tag holder shoots a spike on the opener. Which is 5 days prior to the OTC guys opener. Your telling me that don't take away from the OTC tag holders numbers of success?
Also, would the Any Bull tag hunter have went hunting without drawing the Any Bull tag?? I know alot of people that don't bother hunting unless they draw a special permit..
Post by: Rainier10 on November 06, 2013, 08:39:56 AM
I don't think an Any Bull tag holder "takes away" anybody's success rate. I think the Any Bull tag gives the hunter more options and is a privelage that you don't get very often.So how big of a bull do I need to kill with my "any bull" tag?
Answer please
Any bull that doesn't take away from the OTC crowd. So 2x2 or above.. I will fun some numbers here in a bit to show the dramatic changes each spike taken by a Any Bull tag holder makes on the general season crowd.
I just don't see how an elk hunter that would be an OTC spike shooter without a permit drastically reduces everyone else's odds when he has an anybull tag and shoots a spike. Without the any bull tag he would be an OTC guy and shoot the spike anyway.
You are stealing my ammo :chuckle:
Easy, so the Any Bull tag holder shoots a spike on the opener. Which is 5 days prior to the OTC guys opener. Your telling me that don't take away from the OTC tag holders numbers of success?
Also, would the Any Bull tag hunter have went hunting without drawing the Any Bull tag?? I know alot of people that don't bother hunting unless they draw a special permit..
No matter what the tag holder does someone is going to have a problem with it. If they shoot a spike you think they have shot an elk an OTC only guy could have shot. If they shoot a raghorn they get grief for shooting a raghorn on a quality tag. If they shoot a small 6x6 they hear, "there are way bigger elk than that out there". And if they eat the tag they hear" man you should have at least put some meat in your freezer."
Every keyboard jockey out there including me has an opinion on how they should fill or not fill that tag. I say to each his own and if you are lucky enough to draw the tag you should be able to shoot a spike, raghorn, wall hanger or eat the tag if you want.
Post by: JPhelps on November 06, 2013, 08:40:32 AM
I would absolutely love it if only spikes were killed up until I draw an any bull tag!!! :IBCOOL:
Post by: rtspring on November 06, 2013, 08:44:25 AM
So would it be taking opportunity if the any bull tag holder waited until the first light of the general season to kill a spike?
I would absolutely love it if only spikes were killed up until I draw an any bull tag!!! :IBCOOL:
That makes sense!!! :chuckle: please shoot only spikes tag holders!! I have seen the light.. :chuckle:
Post by: Curly on November 06, 2013, 12:26:55 PM
It's their points, their choice. It's not a "big bull" permit as many like to call it. It's an "any bull" permit. It gives you an advantage in hunting 5 days before the general season starts. If someone is happy to take a spike with the permit that they burned their points on, then that's all that matters.
:yeah:
It is in the quality category. The term quality hunt is likely different for different folks. For some, a quality hunt may mean being out hunting with only a handful of other hunters in the area which may make the experience much better than a general season spike hunt would with all the crowds. (A quality permit doesn't have to mean tagging a record bull.)
Some people may only have a couple days to take off from work (if any), so with their limited time to hunt maybe they'd be content to take a spike. Whatever their reasons are for taking a spike instead of a big bull, I don't have a problem with it. I prefer that they (WDFW) have the any bull permit vs. say a 5 point minimum permit. :twocents:
Post by: Buzz2401 on November 06, 2013, 01:20:21 PM
Post by: boneaddict on November 06, 2013, 04:44:17 PM