Post by: Sportfury on November 16, 2013, 09:04:08 PM
The first photo shows them all. The big rimfire is on the left, the .38-55, (2) .45 long colts, .25-35, and the .22 cal.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg6%2Fsportfury65%2FBullets001_zpsb27bdeab.jpg&hash=2b602a237d4c222eb6f9bf6d6b672e2d1e1fe6f7)
The rimfire end
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg6%2Fsportfury65%2FBullets003_zpsdbb8a02b.jpg&hash=486103c083cb3c580744b71ef567e4b77e71cf2d)
From the side
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg6%2Fsportfury65%2FBullets002_zps48945d49.jpg&hash=dc72dbfc7a7f1350fd76958269fd4f6268f48fa6)
If you know anything about these I would not mind hearing about it.
Post by: jeepster on November 17, 2013, 03:30:51 AM
kinda looks to be in the same general shape and size..... I know they experimented with rimfire vs center fire primers, including belted cartridges back in the day in all sorts of weird caliber/primer combos.......
looks like a 45-70
Post by: jeepster on November 17, 2013, 03:35:08 AM
and yes, they did experiment with belted black powder rimfire cartridges....
im no expert, but, that is my guess
I think the reason why centerfire vs rimfire was favored was due to higher ignition temperatures and the fact the brass could be reloaded and handle smokeless? that's my assumption; I don't know if that is fact......
Post by: Sportfury on November 17, 2013, 09:43:35 AM
could it be something similar to a 45-70?
kinda looks to be in the same general shape and size..... I know they experimented with rimfire vs center fire primers, including belted cartridges back in the day in all sorts of weird caliber/primer combos.......
looks like a 45-70
That is what I thought at first, .45-70, but when you hold one of the .45 long colts up to this cartridge it is bigger than the .45.
Post by: HawkCreek on November 17, 2013, 11:21:36 AM
This may help in your research.
Post by: Sportfury on November 17, 2013, 01:05:09 PM
Here is what I found. The head stamp has R 5 82 F stamped on it. According to this website "R" stands for rifle and the next two stand for the month and date that the cartridge was made; May of 1882. The "F" stands for the Frankford Arsenal where it was made. The cartridge was loaded with black powder.
My grandfather always talked about owning a Krag rifle when he was a kid. When he talked Krag I always thought .30-40 Krag and I think he did mention that cartridge, but after looking at jeepster's post I have to wonder if it was 1867/96 Danish Remington Rolling Block. He always talked about the bad deals that my great-grandfather go into with the local, shady Tacomans back in the day (1930s) and after one such deal when my grandfather was a teenager they raided my great-grandfather's home and took all his guns as payback. He also said that his uncle owned a bar in Tacoma and he used to keep a big, old rifle over the mantel/mirror behind the bar. It was also stolen one night when someone robbed the bar. I have to wonder what kind of bar this would have been because it would have been around the prohibition era.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on November 18, 2013, 06:37:55 AM
could it be something similar to a 45-70?
kinda looks to be in the same general shape and size..... I know they experimented with rimfire vs center fire primers, including belted cartridges back in the day in all sorts of weird caliber/primer combos.......
looks like a 45-70
That is what I thought at first, .45-70, but when you hold one of the .45 long colts up to this cartridge it is bigger than the .45.
Time to get a mike or dial caliper
Post by: Sportfury on November 19, 2013, 12:46:51 AM
could it be something similar to a 45-70?
kinda looks to be in the same general shape and size..... I know they experimented with rimfire vs center fire primers, including belted cartridges back in the day in all sorts of weird caliber/primer combos.......
looks like a 45-70
That is what I thought at first, .45-70, but when you hold one of the .45 long colts up to this cartridge it is bigger than the .45.
Time to get a mike or dial caliper
LOL... I was using the eyeball and to lazy to go in the shop and get the calipers.
Post by: jay.sharkbait on November 19, 2013, 01:21:08 AM
Post by: RadSav on November 19, 2013, 01:41:38 AM
The smaller one you say might be some sort of .22 doesn't look much different than the cast .25-35. Makes me think the .25-35 might really be a .22 Hi-Power with a lot of oxidation. Is it stamped as .25-35? As with the larger round I think the lead oxidation might be misleading. At least in the pictures. A set of calipers could sure help eliminate a lot of ideas.
Post by: Knocker of rocks on November 19, 2013, 07:03:48 AM
A set of calipers could sure help eliminate a lot of ideas.
This is the internet. The last thing we need or want is quantitative data
Post by: mrolen on November 19, 2013, 06:12:27 PM
A set of calipers could sure help eliminate a lot of ideas.
This is the internet. The last thing we need or want is quantitative data
:chuckle:
Post by: RadSav on November 19, 2013, 06:47:42 PM
A set of calipers could sure help eliminate a lot of ideas.
This is the internet. The last thing we need or want is quantitative data
I know...I'm :sry:
Post by: Sportfury on November 19, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
That is not a belted rimfire. Looks more like a crimp to hold a primer cup internally. I think it used to be called the "Benet' inside primer" They stopped using that primer system in June 1882 according to my book so that's pretty cool! That might be from the last run made with out the external primer. My guess would be .45-70. But I'm not seeing the large difference in bullet diameter in the pictures :dunno: Could be a first run of .45-70-500 which would have been loaded at about the same time. I'd bet not many of those were loaded with the Benet primer.Thanks Radsav. Yes the .25-35 is stamped as that. The .22 case is straight from the base to the shoulder where the .25 is sloped to the shoulder.
The smaller one you say might be some sort of .22 doesn't look much different than the cast .25-35. Makes me think the .25-35 might really be a .22 Hi-Power with a lot of oxidation. Is it stamped as .25-35? As with the larger round I think the lead oxidation might be misleading. At least in the pictures. A set of calipers could sure help eliminate a lot of ideas.
If I don't go to the pheasant fields in the morning I will take them out to the shop in the morning and get some quantitative data.
Post by: RadSav on November 19, 2013, 07:31:51 PM
Yes the .25-35 is stamped as that. The .22 case is straight from the base to the shoulder where the .25 is sloped to the shoulder.
You mean more like a 243 case instead of a 250-3000 case? I had thought 243 at first, but the neck seemed way too short.
Maybe real odd ball like the .224 Win/Springfield or 5.7x45 :dunno:
Post by: Sportfury on November 19, 2013, 09:08:46 PM