Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: tluns on November 18, 2013, 03:23:43 PM

Title: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 18, 2013, 03:23:43 PM: Does anybody have any information on why the blacktail deer populations in the south central cascades has declined so badly? I've heard a lot about lack of clearcuts and high predation but I'm not buying it. The ridge I have hunted for 25 years declined badly about six years ago. There is still good feed that isn't being eaten and predators will eventually move out. The WDFW seems elusive when questioned.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: haulinbass on November 18, 2013, 03:32:53 PM: Well it sounds like you already figured it out between timber practices and predator control being non existent that is what I have heard.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: The100Road on November 18, 2013, 03:34:50 PM: Usually everyones "go to" answer would be the tribes. :dunno:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 18, 2013, 03:40:05 PM: The old growth and reprod has been thinned significantly and there is plenty of forage. There aren't enough deer left to sustain many cougars. And how do I say this politically correct? The tribes won't harvest where the hunting has gotten hard.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: lewy on November 18, 2013, 04:15:31 PM: Imo its a combination of over hunting from both tribal and general, as well as lack of predator control. The FS ground definitely isn't being logged like it once was, but the tree farms are and neither seem to have good numbers, gotta be predation/man.......
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bobcat on November 18, 2013, 04:38:44 PM: Don't forget hair loss disease. It's had a big impact on blacktail deer populations.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackelope on November 18, 2013, 05:14:08 PM: And the wolves.

1-Tribes
2-Hair Loss Syndrome
3-Habitat loss.
4-Wolves
5-Lions
6-Tigers
7-Bears
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: denali on November 18, 2013, 05:18:33 PM: - #6 tigers :chuckle:

preditors are an issue that needs to be addressed ..,..... and never will.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackelope on November 18, 2013, 05:19:08 PM: Oh my.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 18, 2013, 05:20:10 PM: Quote from: jackelope on November 18, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
And the wolves.

1-Tribes
2-Hair Loss Syndrome
3-Habitat loss.
4-Wolves
5-Lions
6-Tigers
7-Bears

:yeah: scratch out 6 because I have not seen to many around here and add coyotes and you got a winning list! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: singleshot12 on November 18, 2013, 05:22:52 PM: don't forget herbicides
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackelope on November 18, 2013, 05:26:31 PM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on November 18, 2013, 05:20:10 PM
Quote from: jackelope on November 18, 2013, 05:14:08 PM
And the wolves.

1-Tribes
2-Hair Loss Syndrome
3-Habitat loss.
4-Wolves
5-Lions
6-Tigers
7-Bears

:yeah: scratch out 6 because I have not seen to many around here and add coyotes and you got a winning list! :chuckle:

It just sort of rolled off my tongue.
Oh well...dumb joke.
:tung:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 18, 2013, 05:28:43 PM: Either that or I want some of what you are having :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: paytonma on November 18, 2013, 05:34:49 PM: if theyre in the cascades wouldnt they migrate? wouldnt that solve the food issue? :dunno:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bobcat on November 18, 2013, 05:44:59 PM: Quote from: singleshot12 on November 18, 2013, 05:22:52 PM
don't forget herbicides

:yeah: that's got to be one of the biggest factors in my opinion.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: AOD on November 19, 2013, 10:14:55 AM: Large poplutations of deer attract pressure from predators (humans included.) The natural response for prey is to scatter and seek less pressured habitat. This year in my area the deer population seems to be cut in half from years past. Cougar sightings have increased. When I get snow I am going to do alot of tracking to see what is really going on.....
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: 2MANY on November 19, 2013, 11:34:18 AM: Lack of mating due to the internet.

Actually I miss the remote back country helicopter logging.
When that was happening so was the deer population in a couple of the areas I hunt.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackmaster on November 19, 2013, 02:39:19 PM: i have hunted the same piece of dirt since i started huntn when i was 11, the place i hunt has always had alot of deer, well ever since we lost baiting, hound huntn and trapping i have watched the deer numbers seriously drop but the strange thing is the elk numbers are up in the area, so between maybe competing with the elk and predation thats the reason for the decline, on one little 300 yrd stretch of an old skidder road i found 4 huge brand new piles of cougar sheet. the bobcats seem to be on the incline to, and i know they like fawns along with the blackbear liking fawns to, and i am sure the yotes get their fare share. i also think there is some poaching going on in there as well, have you ever hunted a place so long that you know when stuff is out of place?
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 19, 2013, 04:44:57 PM: I know what you mean jackmaster. That's what has me curious. When the decline started happening we attributed it to all those things I see listed. The decline is so bad the only reasonable thought is the hairslip issue but the state claims it didn't happen in this area. I don't know how they know that as they don't seem to know anything else. I'm also wondering, if it is hairslip, how long the recovery will take. It isn't just bucks in decline, in fact it seems opposite. We never see does anymore(obviously there must be some to create the bucks). Only deer we see are bucks because they are cruising in the rut.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bobcat on November 19, 2013, 04:52:16 PM: I've been wondering where in the heck all the blacktail does are. I see very few bucks, but I see even fewer does. :o. :dunno:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: singleshot12 on November 19, 2013, 04:54:44 PM: Quote from: bobcat on November 18, 2013, 05:44:59 PM
Quote from: singleshot12 on November 18, 2013, 05:22:52 PM
don't forget herbicides

:yeah: that's got to be one of the biggest factors in my opinion.

You bet it is.. predators and hunting just keep the deer numbers healthy and in check. herbicides wipe out their food source,cover,and contaminate their water making an area baron of deer almost over night. seen it happen from aerial spraying.sucks big time
Predators and poachers are the least of the problem :twocents:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on November 19, 2013, 05:11:42 PM: This time of year they just disappear ....and now is the time ... after the rut they find there own little hole in the ground and do not show up out in clear cuts like they were 3 weeks ago .... I prefer heading to heavy thick timber when late bow season starts ...Find that sweet spot and your in ...I talked to a lot of late tag holders in my area and I only know of a couple killed ...everyone else is disgusted ... :dunno: :bdid:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: boneaddict on November 19, 2013, 05:21:21 PM: Someone needs to tell me exactly where this is, so I don't go there. Sounds bad.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: lewy on November 19, 2013, 06:29:22 PM: Can't speak for the others, but I'm talking white river drainage
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bigbeamhunter on November 20, 2013, 04:40:09 PM: Everything with sharp teeth I live somewhere between snowden and goldendale
I shoot bobcats and coyotes off the porch had a cougar kill a doe in the backyard last year loggers have seen a big cat once a week I'm doing my best to kill it it's not far from the house problem is to get him I have passed up 21 coyotes probaly a few of the same ones and 7 bobcats I want the cougar if we all hunted and killed a few animals with sharp teeth it might help
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackelope on November 20, 2013, 06:09:58 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on November 19, 2013, 05:21:21 PM
Someone needs to tell me exactly where this is, so I don't go there. Sounds bad.

Especially with the tigers.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: billythekidrock on November 20, 2013, 06:19:00 PM: Quote from: jackelope on November 20, 2013, 06:09:58 PM
Quote from: boneaddict on November 19, 2013, 05:21:21 PM
Someone needs to tell me exactly where this is, so I don't go there. Sounds bad.

Especially with the tigers.

:yeah: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 20, 2013, 06:21:54 PM: If you look at the deer population in the SW corner of the state, from Goldendale to the ocean, and from Lewis county south you will see timber companies that use herbicides now instead of slash burning. We get signs telling us to keep out while while the animals can't read. Look at hair slip, and hoof rot.
Nobody has looked at the effect of the herbicides on the animals. All i every see is people throwing out the opinion that it isn't the herbicides. Where is the study then?
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: BENCHLEG on November 20, 2013, 06:51:47 PM: :yeah:I have been saying that for years it's a no brainer They are paying off somebody.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bobcat on November 20, 2013, 07:04:37 PM: Where's the Department of Ecology when you need 'em? :dunno:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 20, 2013, 09:12:50 PM: No herbicides where I am at. It's not post-rut lock-down either. I've hunted there long enough to know when there's a problem and there's a problem. Would really like to see the WDFW get more involved but the biologist from region five refuses to do anything except give me the same old clear-cut/predator rhetoric.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: 2MANY on November 20, 2013, 09:16:01 PM: Spray herbicides on your new born baby and see how it does.
Then do it year after year after year and see how that deer does.
O by the way spray it on the food your baby eats too.

Fricken Retards...........................Literally.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: jackelope on November 20, 2013, 10:15:32 PM: It could also apparently be the timber wolves.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: TopOfTheFoodChain on November 20, 2013, 10:48:57 PM: The cuts have no food because of the herbicides. Logging has been in recession decline since when? 2006? Somebody on here will know. Fewer clear cuts and also no feed in them. More predators. Hair loss.

The only west side deer we saw were in yards on the way to and from hunting.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: bobcat on November 20, 2013, 10:52:22 PM: Quote from: TopOfTheFoodChain on November 20, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
The cuts have no food because of the herbicides. Logging has been in recession decline since when? 2006? Somebody on here will know. Fewer clear cuts and also no feed in them. More predators. Hair loss.

The only west side deer we saw were in yards on the way to and from hunting.

That sums it up very well right there. I also see way more deer in people's yards than I do out in the woods. As you said, the clearcuts have very little feed in them, after they spray everything with herbicides.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: Hawgdawg on November 20, 2013, 11:28:23 PM: Quote from: singleshot12 on November 18, 2013, 05:22:52 PM
don't forget herbicides

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:and you wonder why there are no thunder chickens pecking gravel along the logging roads! No weeds or alders growing either. :twocents:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: PolarBear on November 20, 2013, 11:42:23 PM: I had a long talk with our local WDFW Officer about the decline of deer populations in SW Washington and he stated that the main cause of falling deer herd numbers state wide was the result of Manbearpig!
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: 2MANY on November 21, 2013, 08:00:46 AM: I thought he was moving to Florida?
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: singleshot12 on November 21, 2013, 08:51:07 AM: Quote from: TopOfTheFoodChain on November 20, 2013, 10:48:57 PM
The cuts have no food because of the herbicides. Logging has been in recession decline since when? 2006? Somebody on here will know. Fewer clear cuts and also no feed in them. More predators. Hair loss.

The only west side deer we saw were in yards on the way to and from hunting.

Bingo! all in that order. but will it be recognized by the ones able to correct it? most likely not
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: esteban on November 21, 2013, 03:54:04 PM: don't forget POACHERS... :twocents: :twocents:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 21, 2013, 04:01:26 PM: No herbicides being used anywhere near where I hunt. That is down in the private timber company lands.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: singleshot12 on November 21, 2013, 05:16:12 PM: But wouldn't those same deer normally migrate down to the lower private timber lands when the snow falls?
Quote from: tluns on November 21, 2013, 04:01:26 PM
No herbicides being used anywhere near where I hunt. That is down in the private timber company lands.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: paytonma on November 21, 2013, 05:20:56 PM: the westside could use a good backcountry fire it would sky rocket the deer population. feed would be everywhere :twocents:
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 21, 2013, 05:44:31 PM: No, they don't need to migrate that far to get to winter range.
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: 2MANY on November 22, 2013, 07:36:09 AM: Quote from: paytonma on November 21, 2013, 05:20:56 PM
the westside could use a good backcountry fire it would sky rocket the deer population. feed would be everywhere :twocents:

Agree and horn growth would be awesome!!
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: Annette on November 22, 2013, 07:55:48 AM: No such thing as Cascade Blacktails..Someone made that up to sell a book and you all fell for it... You have Blacktails and Mulies and the crosses..
other than that...look at the doe number sales from the WDFW,and all the other things you brought up...
Title: Re: Cascade blacktails
Post by: tluns on November 22, 2013, 08:09:52 AM: Whatever you want to call them. How about the "deer formerly known as blacktails" in the high country of SW washington. I don't see anything of value at the WDFW websight addressing this issue. If you have something I missed please add a link.