Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: irishevox on December 18, 2013, 08:45:53 AM
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i know they are unspoken rules... but what are ya'll's thoughts on shooting geese or ducks while they are not flying... say they land or they just are hanging out... and let ya get close... is it wrong to pop one right in the head.... or neck...?
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For me....flush 'em and blast 'em.
For you......up to you.
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How do you just pop one in the head?
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Ground . sluicing...its ground sluicing......no matter where you shoot them. Is it ethical? Not my call or cup of tea, but be rest assured, with an open ended question like this, the internet po-po's are sure to let you know.
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I am out there to kill birds!! If they happen to be on the water, then so be it..
It is fun sneaking up on them and jumping them up too.
Ethics? I want a limit of birds!!
Rtspring
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How do you just pop one in the head?
I walked with in 10-15 yards of a honker this past weekend and shot it right in the head.... thats how
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Personally.... I let them fly. If they land I jump them and then shoot. I'm not going to dog someone who ground is ground sluicing just not my thing.
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I don't sluice, but it's more from practicality than ethics. They tend to survive more when their wings aren't opened up as they sit and I think have a better chance of going away injured. I like to scare 'em up and then kill 'em. To each their own. Of course, I also use Black Cloud, so I'm from the other side of the tracks to begin with! :chuckle: :chuckle:
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Well i was wondering.... i mean.... i mostly shoot ducks while they are cupping or flying with in distance.... I mean i guess i just got luck with the canadian just standing there.
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That close, I don't see where sluicing will make a difference. How did he cook up? :drool:
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How do you just pop one in the head?
Pretty easy if close enough. 75 out of 76 quail I shot one year were shot in the head trying to run away from me in the coastal OR hills.
Ethics are your choice. I can go either way on this, and have done both depending on circumstances. Some will say it's not "fair" while stuffing 3 1/2" magnum shells into their $1500+ gun over their 200 count decoy spread.... ;) My arguments for are if you were good enough to call them into your dekes or sneak up on them to shooting distance, why not, you've successfully completed part of the challenge of hunting, also no cripples locking up and sailing into the wilderness.
:twocents:
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If you like eating geese, why not? Turkeys are shot on the ground. I don't see the difference.
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I don't see a problem either way as long as it is a quick, clean kill. I have shot a few birds on the water but mostly on a slow day where I want to try and get the dog some work. Other then that I will generally at least stand up and get them up then drop em.
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:twocents: If it's a clean kill, no problem, be it in the air or on the water. Personally, I am much more concerned with the skybuster who wings a bird and doesn't have the means, whether its a good enough retriever or boat, to retrieve the injured bird. And even a FC retriever isn't going to retrieve a wounded bird 400yards out and in the current. I've picked up 3 birds this year from groups hunting up river from me, that makes me grouchy.
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We jump em just because I don't like rattling or sinking decoys. If I'm jumpshooting I don't care either way. Meat is meat. Hell, I've shot a turkey on the fly..
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
I agree that there is nothing better then calling in birds, working them into your decoys and have them cupped and locked. I have had some days where I was hunting by myself and would see if I could get the birds to actually land in my decoys. Often times we would call birds in close enough to pass shoot but it is that last 20-30 yards that shows me I really tricked them. If I complete that then shooting one off the water would be finishing the sequence but again, I am one that at that point will just jump them and then dump them. :tup:
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
7 birds on my family's plate is not the same as one...
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I think this is a pretty good article about shooting ducks on the water : http://www.ducks.org/tennessee/when-to-shoot-sitting-ducks
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Its been my experience that I cannot justify the financial cost of duck hunting, any hunting at all for that matter. I can buy seven chickens or a few turkeys for a tank of fuel let alone the shells, licenses, and then theres the TIME spent doing it.
Yes, It's wonderful bringing home a limit of birds. But it shouldn't be a hunter's primary goal. They begin justifying unethical practices to fullfil their personal expectations. Then the means don't justify the ends.
I'm not chastising you for jump shooting I'm concerned with your goal of just killing birds and as many as possible. Careful don't turn into the skybusting, baiting, tresspassing a$$ hole duck hunter that gives the rest of us ethical hunters a bad name. Don't be that guy.
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BRAD i never said my goal was as many a possible... my main goal is to get quality birds and get my limit... if i kill a goose thats going to stand there and i did it legally.... how can i be that guy?
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i will shoot a grouse on the sit, but ducks or geese i let my kids shoot them on the sit and then i shoot them when they fly, to each his own, who cares how someone gets their limit :dunno: i think eveyone goes through the stages eventually :tup:
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How do you just pop one in the head?
Pretty easy if close enough. 75 out of 76 quail I shot one year were shot in the head trying to run away from me in the coastal OR hills.
Ethics are your choice. I can go either way on this, and have done both depending on circumstances. Some will say it's not "fair" while stuffing 3 1/2" magnum shells into their $1500+ gun over their 200 count decoy spread.... ;) My arguments for are if you were good enough to call them into your dekes or sneak up on them to shooting distance, why not, you've successfully completed part of the challenge of hunting, also no cripples locking up and sailing into the wilderness.
:twocents:
:yeah:
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Its been my experience that I cannot justify the financial cost of duck hunting, any hunting at all for that matter. I can buy seven chickens or a few turkeys for a tank of fuel let alone the shells, licenses, and then theres the TIME spent doing it.
Yes, It's wonderful bringing home a limit of birds. But it shouldn't be a hunter's primary goal. They begin justifying unethical practices to fullfil their personal expectations. Then the means don't justify the ends.[/U]
I'm not chastising you for jump shooting I'm concerned with your goal of just killing birds and as many as possible. Careful don't turn into the skybusting, baiting, tresspassing a$$ hole duck hunter that gives the rest of us ethical hunters a bad name. Don't be that guy.
???
Seriously? It is always my Primary goal to go out and kill a limit of birds. I do not invest 10's of thousands of dollars to go sit and watch the sun rise and listen to the birds chirp (It happens but certainly not my goal).
I think you are way off basis with this notion that having a goal of killing a limit some how equates to skybusting, baiting, and trespassing. Quite frankly none of those things have anything to do with having a goal of killing a limit of birds.
As far as Water sluicing, or ground pounding the bird is concerned. The reality is that very few people have the patients or skill to actually wait the incoming birds out or put the sneak on them to get close enough so it is not as common as some might think. But if the bird comes into my spread and is not jumping up when I pop up and give it a yell then it is going to get smacked. As far as I am concerned I have done my part and the dog wants to do its part. :tup:
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I would shoot them wherever they are that is safe and with the least amount of shells as possible with the cost of shells so high.
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Is shooting a turkey in the head unethical? Most would say shooting them on the fly or in the roost is not ethical. My teeth like head shots.
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A whole lot of work, time and money goes into a waterfowl season. If you have your setup so good that they land without knowing you're there, then you've done 75% of the work. I say let em' have it. One of my birds from this morning had landed right in my spread. Once I took him out, I shot two more as they jumped up so it wasn't all swacking on the water.
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I will usually shoot them on the water when jump shooting if I can, sometimes if I can sneak close enough I'll try and line up two or three and get them all with one shot then shoot the rest as they fly. Sneaking on ducks this time of the year is not very easy, atleast where I hunt the birds are pretty spooky. I also like picking them on the water because it is easier to pick out nice drakes.
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I will usually shoot them on the water when jump shooting if I can, sometimes if I can sneak close enough I'll try and line up two or three and get them all with one shot then shoot the rest as they fly. Sneaking on ducks this time of the year is not very easy, atleast where I hunt the birds are pretty spooky. I also like picking them on the water because it is easier to pick out nice drakes.
I have done that with teals too where I will line up two or three to shoot with one shot. I rarely shoot at teals but like to get a few early in the year to use to work with the dogs throughout the season and the next year. Nice being able to shoot one shell and get a couple birds.
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I have done that with teals too where I will line up two or three to shoot with one shot. I rarely shoot at teals but like to get a few early in the year to use to work with the dogs throughout the season and the next year. Nice being able to shoot one shell and get a couple birds.
You are missing out.. :drool: IMO one of the best eating ducks out there. :tup:
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I have done that with teals too where I will line up two or three to shoot with one shot. I rarely shoot at teals but like to get a few early in the year to use to work with the dogs throughout the season and the next year. Nice being able to shoot one shell and get a couple birds.
You are missing out.. :drool: IMO one of the best eating ducks out there. :tup:
They do eat good and I am not opposed to shooting a few on slower days but I enjoy trying to work mallards, gaddys and other bigger puddlers. It is pretty fun to shoot at teals when they bomb through your spread though.
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If it's a single duck then that's just fine for a (sitting)head shot. Too many hunters like to go in at opening and shoot for the blackest area of birds in a flock.sure they get a few birds in 3 shots.but how many do they put pellets in that get away? more than are retrieved I'm sure.
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"I think you are way off basis with this notion that having a goal of killing a limit some how equates to skybusting, baiting, and trespassing. Quite frankly none of those things have anything to do with having a goal of killing a limit of birds. "
Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass? Why does this happen so often? Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft. ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me as to what motivates people to cross the line.
I know it wasn't you claiming to do whatever it takes to kill as many birds as possible lndshark, I'm not attacking you I'm trying to inspire discussion. But its your thread on "Ethics"
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Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass? Why does this happen so often? Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft. ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE.
I don't agree at all. I think people do the things above because they are lazy and don't want to put in the work to do it the right way. Just because I want to go out and shoot a limit of birds, does that make me less of an ethical hunter? You seem to have a pretty high and mighty attitude about it and think that because people choose other legal ways to harvest their birds that they are inferior in their skills and ethics to you.
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If I'm wrong please enlighten me as to what motivates people to cross the line.
I'll answer what i think motivates people to cross the line and that is simply greed and for the need to feel prestiges.
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I would shoot them wherever they are that is safe and with the least amount of shells as possible with the cost of shells so high.
Well said IMO
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Well let's see, here's a question- what's more ethical, to shoot a running deer at 300 yards or a deer standing still at 100 yards?
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I like this article.
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/11/ethics-question-shooting-ducks-water (http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/11/ethics-question-shooting-ducks-water)
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"I think you are way off basis with this notion that having a goal of killing a limit some how equates to skybusting, baiting, and trespassing. Quite frankly none of those things have anything to do with having a goal of killing a limit of birds. "
Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass? Why does this happen so often? Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft. ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me as to what motivates people to cross the line.
I know it wasn't you claiming to do whatever it takes to kill as many birds as possible lndshark, I'm not attacking you I'm trying to inspire discussion. But its your thread on "Ethics"
Not my thread I was just commenting. :tup:
I can think of many things that drive people to cross the line. But someone already mentioned the most prominent IMHO it is laziness. People that do not want to put the time in to learn how to call and fool their quarry into range etc. I am going to bet that most of the group you are categorizing does not even know what the limits are.. :tup:
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"I think you are way off basis with this notion that having a goal of killing a limit some how equates to skybusting, baiting, and trespassing. Quite frankly none of those things have anything to do with having a goal of killing a limit of birds. "
Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass? Why does this happen so often? Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft. ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me as to what motivates people to cross the line.
I know it wasn't you claiming to do whatever it takes to kill as many birds as possible lndshark, I'm not attacking you I'm trying to inspire discussion. But its your thread on "Ethics"
Not my thread I was just commenting. :tup:
I can think of many things that drive people to cross the line. But someone already mentioned the most prominent IMHO it is laziness. People that do not want to put the time in to learn how to call and fool their quarry into range etc. I am going to bet that most of the group you are categorizing does not even know what the limits are.. :tup:
If I am breathing to hard when I get to a good spot, that is my limit!
If my dog is still a sleep after making coffee and having my first cup, that is my limit.
If the neoprene vest is frozen, that is my limit.
If the lake/pond is frozen, that is my limit.
When I grab the whistle and shotgun and the dog doesn't go crazy, that is my limit. Hasn't happened yet. :chuckle:
Sorry had to add some humor in this to break up the monotony. Carry on :tup:
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Ok i was asking... in ya'll's opnion was it ethical... to take a Goose just standing there... not moving... or to shoot ducks in water... not flying.... this thred kind jumped off topic
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Ok i was asking... in ya'll's opnion was it ethical... to take a Goose just standing there... not moving... or to shoot ducks in water... not flying.... this thred kind jumped off topic
I don't see anything wrong with it as long as your are confident in the shot and can make a quick kill. A dead duck that flew in tastes the same as a duck you shoot off the water. :tup:
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Well let's see, here's a question- what's more ethical, to shoot a running deer at 300 yards or a deer standing still at 100 yards?
I wont shoot a deer that's not running. Just my personal preference. I don't think it's ethical to shoot a deer that is unaware of my presence. :chuckle:
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i don't think it's unethical to shoot a sitting duck or goose as long as you can make a clean kill of it. i've had ducks land in my decoys when i haven't been paying attention, i figure if i can get close enough for a shot it doesn't matter too much if it's swimming or taking off...still both a lot easier shots than one going over your head at 50mph.
that said, i've never killed a grouse on the ground. most people don't have any problem sluicing a grouse, and neither do i, but i can never get them to sit still long enough :)
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i don't think it's unethical to shoot a sitting duck or goose as long as you can make a clean kill of it. i've had ducks land in my decoys when i haven't been paying attention, i figure if i can get close enough for a shot it doesn't matter too much if it's swimming or taking off...still both a lot easier shots than one going over your head at 50mph.
that said, i've never killed a grouse on the ground. most people don't have any problem sluicing a grouse, and neither do i, but i can never get them to sit still long enough :)
I am no waterfowl expert and don't even go anymore but I never understood the enormous rifts in waterfowling. I always wanted them to commit but sometimes they didn't so I would sneak up on sitting ducks sometimes :dunno:
I can hardly get a grouse to fly :chuckle:
Although I did shoot one on the fly with a Mark III this fall. Haters gonna hate
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Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass? Why does this happen so often? Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft. ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE.
I don't agree at aldon't think people do the things above because they are lazy and don't want to put in the work to do it the right way. Just because I want to go out and shoot a limit of birds, does that make me less of an ethical hunter? You seem to have a pretty high and mighty attitude about it and think that because people choose other legal ways to harvest their birds that they are inferior in their skills and ethics to you.
I've said it before - I jump shoot birds. honestly I'm very successful at it. But I strive to shoot them in flight. My goal is not to fill my bag limit everyday doing whatever it takes. My goal is to cleanly harvest the birds that present ethical shooting opportunities. I find success by following my ethical beliefs - I don't sluice, I don't skybust, I don't shoot, even one minute, before shooting hours I don't bait and I don't tresspass. I hunt the potholes theres way to many rule breakers because theres no way to ticket all of them. If all hunters held themselves to a higher standard everyone would benefit.
Remember the sport is wingshooting.
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Sorry lndshrk I got confused. :chuckle:
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Maybe it's not a "sport" to all people.
Maybe it's a way of filling the freezer with wild meat. :dunno:
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This topic again huh. Let me bring up a point. You have a diver come in and land in your decoys. 25 yards. You stand up and he just starts swimming away. You yell at him. He just swims quicker. You wave at him he keeps swimming and now he is out of range.
Would you have shot if he wouldn't fly?
Does my camo work that good?
Happens to me all the time.
I give them a chance to fly. If they don't that's on them.
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Duckmen1- so do you shoot it or not?
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In line with this topic:
"If it flies it dies...well I got news for ya, if he sits right where he is, he's going to die too."
~Phil Robertson
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Maybe it's not a "sport" to all people.
Maybe it's a way of filling the freezer with wild meat. :dunno:
Beat me to it Bobcat. For the people who are hunting for food it would be foolish not to sluice. If it's only a sport to you by all means shoot them on the wing. But for those who do feel hunting is a "sport" it's that word and attitude that the antis hate the most.
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I honestly can't see why shooting them on the ground is considered unethical. Unsporting maybe, but not unethical. Only downside I could see blowing holes in your decoys.
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
My skill as a hunter equates to what I can bring home to feed my family. Because I have swatted birds on the water or ground (both legal to do BTW), does not mean I am going to do illegal things like baiting or shooting before legal hours. That is a pretty arrogant ASSumption to make. Do you take 50 yard shots at ducks, I think this is unethical myself and would guess that you probably shoot lead at them since you do. Is that a fair ASSumption to make about you? :dunno:
Hunters are our own worst enemies. :bash: :(
And, duck hunting is quite cost effective for me if I would drive the half mile to the shore, swat two birds with two shells and then drive home more often. 8)
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
My skill as a hunter equates to what I can bring home to feed my family. Because I have swatted birds on the water or ground (both legal to do BTW), does not mean I am going to do illegal things like baiting or shooting before legal hours. That is a pretty arrogant ASSumption to make. Do you take 50 yard shots at ducks, I think this is unethical myself and would guess that you probably shoot lead at them since you do. Is that a fair ASSumption to make about you? :dunno:
Hunters are our own worst enemies. :bash: :(
And, duck hunting is quite cost effective for me if I would drive the half mile to the shore, swat two birds with two shells and then drive home more often. 8)
:yeah:
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Ethics?
That's a strong question.
To some... simply killing an animal would be bad ethics.
But, as hunters, we ask ourselves simply what is the moral thing to do while out hunting?
I mean, the end goal is after all to kill. Right?
So really what's the difference?
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Right? lol...
Personally, the ethics question comes up for me only when safety or non-killing questions come up.
Like picking up your garbage while out in the field, or not setting up too close to other hunters.
With your example of shooting a bird off the water... Yes I would not hesitate to do so, unless there were other factors involved. I think every one of us would ask ourselves, if it's safe to shoot it, then shoot it? Right?
Ethically, I would not shoot at a bird on the water if my pellets were going to ricochet into something.... like a dog or boat or person.
But otherwise, hell yeah I would sluice a duck.
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For me ethics is more about how I conduct myself around other hunters in the field , such as not crowding them, not shooting at ducks circling around to another's dekes, offering to have my dog pick up another's long sailing bird, not trying to beat them to a spot when they were there first. Not sky busting.
Fair chase on big game, offering a hand.
Being old and tenacious I sometimes fall asleep in the blind. The dog wakes me up if a bird lands in the spread and I feel obligated to kill it. It doesn't bother me because I am helping preserve the species by killing the ones that are dumb enough to land amongst those stupid looking fakes. :tup:
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Interesting - taking a 50+ yard shot is unethical but ground sluicing isn't. Why? What logic are you using?
It can't be because sluicing gives you a better shot because it doesn't. Every hunter who has done it has seen birds covered by their bb spread and the bird keeps swimming or just flies away. Its not a guaranteed kill shot. Been there tried that - wont do it again.
I never said anyone was breaking the law. I just cautioned that setting goals of killing as many birds as possible at whatever cost can lead to guys breaking the law (baiting, tresspassing, shooting hours, etc.). I argue that this greed is the motivation. Rather if we hunters strived to conduct ourselves as ethically as possible it will make better hunting for everyone and help our reputations as hunters.
When all we do is brag about how many birds we shoot its not hard for the anti's to hate us. Hows gaining access to private lands these days? Easier or harder? WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMY.
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Ghosthunter your examples are actually forms of etiquette. And having etiquette towards fellow hunters makes for a better experience for everyone. Thank you for being kind to others.
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Interesting - taking a 50+ yard shot is unethical but ground sluicing isn't. Why? What logic are you using?
It can't be because sluicing gives you a better shot because it doesn't. Every hunter who has done it has seen birds covered by their bb spread and the bird keeps swimming or just flies away. Its not a guaranteed kill shot. Been there tried that - wont do it again.
I never said anyone was breaking the law. I just cautioned that setting goals of killing as many birds as possible at whatever cost can lead to guys breaking the law (baiting, tresspassing, shooting hours, etc.). I argue that this greed is the motivation. Rather if we hunters strived to conduct ourselves as ethically as possible it will make better hunting for everyone and help our reputations as hunters.
When all we do is brag about how many birds we shoot its not hard for the anti's to hate us. Hows gaining access to private lands these days? Easier or harder? WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMY.
Uh yeah, you said doing something YOU consider unethical leads to breaking laws (baiting). I consider shooting past 50 yards unethical therefore, like you, I will assume that if you are willing to do that you would be willing to break the law by using lead shot. It is the EXACT same reasoning as you have put out there.
Also, IF you swat farther than 35 yards, yeah you might miss some, do you miss more than ones shot at on the wing? I really doubt it. I can't remember the last bird I shot at on the water at less than 35 yards, that was not diving while trying to get away after being crippled that I missed. :dunno:
I will repeat, I have NOT broken these laws while trying to get as close to my limit as possible. It is hunters like you that degrade other LEGAL hunters for their choices of means or method that causes more damage to the hunting community than someone choosing to shoot a non-crippled bird on the water or in a field.
I am now done with your arrogance!!! :stup:
Oh yeah, etiquette and ethics are two sides of the same coin.
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If you like eating geese, why not? Turkeys are shot on the ground. I don't see the difference.
I basically agree with you but.... The vitals on a duck are below the surface when they are swimming, and actually present a low odds shot. We have sluiced a few, but lifting off presents a better odds shot IMHO.
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Am I the only one who is concerned about our lifestyle? Excuse me for promoting a constructive conversation on ETHICS. IF WE DON'T HOLD OURSELVES TO THE HIGHEST STANDARD THEN THE ANTI'S WILL SHUT US DOWN. I promote fair chase. I hunt because it is an intrinsic value that flows through my veins. Duck hunting is my passion. It kills me to read about guys breaking the law so they can increase how many birds they kill. Sluicing isn't against the law - I know this -but its debatable whether it's ethical or not. Thats why this thread was started. Its a gray area. I happen to be in the "no sluicing" camp and I'm free to say so and I'm free to promote it as well.
Insults are not constructive -there is no need for that.
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If you like eating geese, why not? Turkeys are shot on the ground. I don't see the difference.
I basically agree with you but.... The vitals on a duck are below the surface when they are swimming, and actually present a low odds shot. We have sluiced a few, but lifting off presents a better odds shot IMHO.
:yeah:
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Ya if he won't fly away I'm shooting. I give them a chance but I will shoot if it comes down to it. Tried not to before and came home pretty empty because all morning long birds we're let go because I didn't want to shoot them on the water. Regardless most of my birds are shot flying.
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If you like eating geese, why not? Turkeys are shot on the ground. I don't see the difference.
I basically agree with you but.... The vitals on a duck are below the surface when they are swimming, and actually present a low odds shot. We have sluiced a few, but lifting off presents a better odds shot IMHO.
I'm sorry, can't stay away.... really? The vitals are below the water line? Ever been on a boat? How much of that is actually below the water line? The lungs are actually along the back, you might have some intestine, gizzard, and breast meat below the water line. Are you trying to double lung a duck or break its skull/spine? I watched a mallard fly over two hundred yards this year before "landing" out in the middle of the bay. A friend coming by in his boat picked it up for me so I didn't have to go get my dinghy (luckily his cell phone was on), he still had to wring it's neck to kill it. That bird had two #4 shot holes through its heart. I'll go for the head/neck shot any time over a "vitals" shot.
AND AGAIN, BH, YOU TALK ABOUT "BREAKING THE LAW", WHO'S BREAKING THE LAW?
Here's one for you BH, do you use the legs of the ducks/geese you shoot? I'm talking mallards, widgeon, pintails, etc. not the little teal or bufflehead, though I often eat those as well. If not, then you are not only unethical but you may be breaking the wanton waste laws.
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Its a thin gray line. Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is a big concern. Why? Because it distorts thier thinking. Its a form of greed. All of a sudden sluicing Is justified. And so is skybusting and then comes baiting. Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.
Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter. Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it. All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down. That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most. Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds. Its quality not quantity.
I share your thoughts on this subject. I love a limit but quality over quantity all the way. After it's all said and done, I remember the tough shots when I got lucky, great retrieves from my labs, the way a couple Pintails turned on a dime to my hail call(luck of course)but to ground swat them just doesn't seem right in my book. Shotguns are designed to shoot moving targets. Ground swatting is for cripples. But you can do whatever turns your crank.
Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion. :twocents:
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77.15.170Waste of fish and wildlife — Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of waste of fish and wildlife if: (a) The person kills, takes, or possesses fish, shellfish, or wildlife having a value of two hundred fifty dollars or more or wildlife classified as big game; and (b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted. (2) Waste of fish and wildlife is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke any license or tag used in the crime and shall order suspension of the person's privileges to engage in the activity in which the person committed waste of fish and wildlife for a period of one year. (3) It is prima facie evidence of waste if: (a) A processor purchases or engages a quantity of food fish, shellfish, or game fish that cannot be processed within sixty hours after the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are taken from the water, unless the food fish, game fish, or shellfish are preserved in good marketable condition; or (b) A person brings a big game animal to a wildlife meat cutter and then abandons the animal. For purposes of this subsection (3)(b), a big game animal is deemed to be abandoned when its carcass is placed in the custody of a wildlife meat cutter for butchering and processing and: (i) Having been placed in such custody for an unspecified period of time, the meat is not removed within thirty days after the wildlife meat cutter gives notice to the person who brought in the carcass or, having been so notified, the person who brought in the carcass refuses or fails to pay the agreed upon or reasonable charges for the butchering or processing of the carcass; or (ii) Having been placed in such custody for a specified period of time, the meat is not removed at the end of the specified period or the person who brought in the carcass refuses to pay the agreed upon or reasonable charges for the butchering or processing of the carcass.[2012 c 176 § 16; 1999 c 258 § 5; 1998 c 190 § 21.]
Nope not breaking any laws because I don't keep the legs anymore. I used to but have quit since I mostly make duck jerky. Which I'm enjoying right now from the mallards I jump shot ths last friday.
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You still didn't answer either question.... OK so you not using the legs isn't wanton waste but it certainly could be considered unethical couldn't it? And again, by your own reasoning, if you are unethical by wasting the legs (which I am assuming you do since you didn't say differently), maybe you break the law in other ways...?
Just sayin'. :boxin:
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Nope not breaking any laws because I don't keep the legs anymore. I used to but have quit since I mostly make duck jerky. Which I'm enjoying right now from the mallards I jump shot ths last friday.
Alright Lokidog- Take a break and reread what I'm writing. You've consitently drawn the wrong conclusions from my posts. :dunno: :bash:
I'm not on here bashing anyone. And I'm cofused by your insistent rants. Im encouraging everyone to hold themselves to the highest standard. Lets not allow our moral standards to drop just so we can shoot more birds at the end of the day. Thats all I'm saying.
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To kill a duck on the water, they DO need to be close. Like 25 yards, or 35 yards max.
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Another simple question turned into a pissing match. The OP was asking what we think. That means our own individual opinions of his question about sluicing, not pick someone else's opinion and slam it to the ground. You guys need to seriously take it easy on one another. This is dumb.
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You still didn't answer either question.... OK so you not using the legs isn't wanton waste but it certainly could be considered unethical couldn't it? And again, by your own reasoning, if you are unethical by wasting the legs (which I am assuming you do since you didn't say differently), maybe you break the law in other ways...?
Just sayin'. :boxin:
Doesn't read as a rant to me.....probably the first time I've ever seen Ed (lokidog) accused of a insistent rants.
What pianoman said....jeez....take it easy.
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There is no reason to attack anyone.... i understand... people can get a little testy etc... but in loki's defense.... Brad kinda started stating things about stuff being illegal... nothing was asked about people being legal or not... though i hate people who hunt illegally, and i hope all of us stand up for whats right, but i am asking over all what is ethical.... this doesn't need to be a pissing match.... but everyone needs to respect everyone...
if you don;t think it's ethical say why... if you think it is say why.... lets have a healthy fun discussion :hunt2:
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Lol, People always get touchy when the word "Ethics" is involved. Ethics like this are just a personal choice i guess. I really don't even think the anti hunter watching you through his bino's is going to care whether you shoot on the fly or sluice. If you are a meat hunter and don't feel comfortable taking a jumped flying shot so be it,just make sure there is NOT a bunch of ducks farther out behind that you could potentially wound.
Personally I've been brought up to always take a flying shot within range. I have shot a sitting duck or two in the past but have never felt much gratitude doing so. :twocents:
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There is no reason to attack anyone.... i understand... people can get a little testy etc... but in loki's defense.... Brad kinda started stating things about stuff being illegal... nothing was asked about people being legal or not... though i hate people who hunt illegally, and i hope all of us stand up for whats right, but i am asking over all what is ethical.... this doesn't need to be a pissing match.... but everyone needs to respect everyone...
if you don;t think it's ethical say why... if you think it is say why.... lets have a healthy fun discussion :hunt2:
You're much more well spoken than I. :tup:
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I CHOOSE not to...
sluice ducks
shoot a roosting turkey
shoot a big game animal procreating at the time,
kill a bear in its den unless its trying to kill me
shoot a deer or elk over bait
cheat on my wife......
It would be PC for me to say I wont look down on someone who does choose to do these things......BUT :chuckle:
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There is nothing unethical about shooting a bird on the water or ground. Now where the ethics come in is not shooting a buddies decoy and I believe that is where the confusion is, thinking for the birds sake. Start peppering pellets through my dsd spread, you will get a kick in the nuts and a bill. Also you don't want to shoot the dog if it where to bust in the decoys. I had that happen before when some geese landed in the decoys my buddies dog busted for them and if we got to excited and shot them on the ground the dog would of got pellets as well because it happens fast. But since we wait to flush the birds the dog was ok. Waiting for birds to flush gives the hunter more time to wait for the unexpected.
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There is nothing unethical about shooting a bird on the water or ground. Now where the ethics come in is not shooting a buddies decoy and I believe that is where the confusion is, thinking for the birds sake. Start peppering pellets through my dsd spread, you will get a kick in the nuts and a bill. Also you don't want to shoot the dog if it where to bust in the decoys. I had that happen before when some geese landed in the decoys my buddies dog busted for them and if we got to excited and shot them on the ground the dog would of got pellets as well because it happens fast. But since we wait to flush the birds the dog was ok. Waiting for birds to flush gives the hunter more time to wait for the unexpected.
Not ethics, judgement! :chuckle: :chuckle:
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There is nothing unethical about shooting a bird on the water or ground. Now where the ethics come in is not shooting a buddies decoy and I believe that is where the confusion is, thinking for the birds sake. Start peppering pellets through my dsd spread, you will get a kick in the nuts and a bill. Also you don't want to shoot the dog if it where to bust in the decoys. I had that happen before when some geese landed in the decoys my buddies dog busted for them and if we got to excited and shot them on the ground the dog would of got pellets as well because it happens fast. But since we wait to flush the birds the dog was ok. Waiting for birds to flush gives the hunter more time to wait for the unexpected.
Not ethics, judgement! :chuckle: :chuckle:
If a hunter has no ethics they use poor judgment towards others equipment and dogs in my experiences.
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Yeah, so I was joking. Hence the laughing heads.
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Yeah, so I was joking. Hence the laughing heads.
Yeah I know, but I heard a dog get shot in another blind one time and still freaks me out some. That scream howl that seemed to last for over an hour made me pack and leave. I have another bad story as well from another bird being shot on the ground but no one got hurt atleast.
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This thread is getting intense... How bout those Seahawks :)
In my experience I've had better luck killing ducks in the air, I've had some cripples survive the plummet to the waters surface and survive, and I've burned far more ammo finishing those pesky cripples off than anything on the wing. I'm just saying for me it's easier to kill a bird on the wing than one on the pond, unless the birds fly straight at me I'll miss every time :'(
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LMAO....
GO HAWKS!!!
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This thread is getting intense... How bout those Seahawks :)
In my experience I've had better luck killing ducks in the air, I've had some cripples survive the plummet to the waters surface and survive, and I've burned far more ammo finishing those pesky cripples off than anything on the wing. I'm just saying for me it's easier to kill a bird on the wing than one on the pond, unless the birds fly straight at me I'll miss every time :'(
Go Hawk! That intense right now because the refs are getting flags ready for Hawks.
Didn't have time yesterday to share my other experience with a bird in the deks. A lone goose comes in and bails, we shoot it but doesn't go down hard and is standing in the deks. We knew it could still fly away so we make sure our guns are loaded up and I step out of the blind to my left. Standing waiting for the others to come with and walk shoulder to shoulder. No one else was getting out of the blind to my surprise and ask is anyone going with me? Their answer was no. So I start to make my way to the goose and get about 10 steps away from it. It bolts to my left for the hole to take off and I start to take aim and going to fire when in the hole of the spread which I'm just on the line of the hole. Just about to pull the trigger once the feet leave the ground and completely out of the deks then BANG from behind! Pellets slap the ground in front of me. I let out a scream of anger turn around and yelled who almost f#$%ing shot me! From the blind others instantly pointed at the guy dropping his gun. Never went with that guy again which he even missed the bird and flew away as well. The others told me later on that season that if I didn't let out that scary scream he was going to keep shooting. I couldn't even talk for the rest of the day because of anger with a little shock mixed in.
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i like my ducks in a row..sure saves on ammo. :)