Ethics?

[Brad Harshman]

Then why would people bait, skybust, or tresspass?  Why does this happen so often?  Its NOT because they want to enjoy their hunt by mastering their craft.  ITS BECAUSE THEY WANT TO KILL AS MANY BIRDS AS POSSIBLE. 

I don't agree at aldon't think people do the things above because they are lazy and don't want to put in the work to do it the right way. Just because I want to go out and shoot a limit of birds, does that make me less of an ethical hunter? You seem to have a pretty high and mighty attitude about it and think that because people choose other legal ways to harvest their birds that they are inferior in their skills and ethics to you.

I've said it before - I jump shoot birds. honestly I'm very successful at it.  But I strive to shoot them in flight.  My goal is not to fill my bag limit everyday doing whatever it takes.  My goal is to cleanly harvest the birds that present ethical shooting opportunities.  I find success by following my ethical beliefs - I don't sluice, I don't skybust, I don't shoot, even one minute,  before shooting hours I don't bait and I don't tresspass. I hunt the potholes theres way to many rule breakers because theres no way to ticket all of them.  If all hunters held themselves to a higher standard everyone would benefit. 

Remember the sport is wingshooting. 

[Brad Harshman]

Sorry lndshrk I got confused.

[bobcat]

Maybe it's not a "sport" to all people.

Maybe it's a way of filling the freezer with wild meat.   

[duckmen1]

This topic again huh. Let me bring up a point. You have a diver come in and land in your decoys. 25 yards. You stand up and he just starts swimming away. You yell at him. He just swims quicker. You wave at him he keeps swimming and now he is out of range.
Would you have shot if he wouldn't fly?
Does my camo work that good?
Happens to me all the time.
I give them a chance to fly. If they don't that's on them.

[bobcat]

Duckmen1- so do you shoot it or not?

[Jonathan_S]

In line with this topic:

"If it flies it dies...well I got news for ya, if he sits right where he is, he's going to die too."

~Phil Robertson

[3nails]

Maybe it's not a "sport" to all people.

Maybe it's a way of filling the freezer with wild meat.   

Beat me to it Bobcat. For the people who are hunting for food it would be foolish not to sluice. If it's only a sport to you by all means shoot them on the wing. But for those who do feel hunting is a "sport" it's that word and attitude that the antis hate the most.

[jaymark6655]

I honestly can't see why shooting them on the ground is considered unethical.  Unsporting maybe, but not unethical.  Only downside I could see blowing holes in your decoys.

[lokidog]

Its a thin gray line.  Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is  a big concern.  Why?  Because it distorts thier thinking.  Its a form of greed.  All of a sudden sluicing Is justified.  And so is skybusting  and then comes baiting.  Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.

Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter.  Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it.  All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down.  That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most.  Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds.  Its quality not quantity. 

Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion.

My skill as a hunter equates to what I can bring home to feed my family.  Because I have swatted birds on the water or ground (both legal to do BTW), does not mean I am going to do illegal things like baiting or shooting before legal hours.  That is a pretty arrogant ASSumption to make.  Do you take 50 yard shots at ducks, I think this is unethical myself and would guess that you probably shoot lead at them since you do.   Is that a fair ASSumption to make about you?   

Hunters are our own worst enemies.      

And, duck hunting is quite cost effective for me if I would drive the half mile to the shore, swat two birds with two shells and then drive home more often.   

[billythekidrock]

Its a thin gray line.  Hunters who's only goal is to shoot limits is  a big concern.  Why?  Because it distorts thier thinking.  Its a form of greed.  All of a sudden sluicing Is justified.  And so is skybusting  and then comes baiting.  Its a slippery slope when It comes to ethics.

Successful hunts should be measured in building your skill set as a duck hunter.  Don't get me wrong I jump shoot birds but I do feel a little guilty doing it.  All year I think about decoying birds in, wings cupped and feet down.  That is duck hunting to me, those moments I remember the most.  Its those moments I share with my friends, not necessiceraly the number of birds.  Its quality not quantity. 

Please don't let it consume you. One cupped in bird over decoys is worth seven jumped birds in my opinion.

My skill as a hunter equates to what I can bring home to feed my family.  Because I have swatted birds on the water or ground (both legal to do BTW), does not mean I am going to do illegal things like baiting or shooting before legal hours.  That is a pretty arrogant ASSumption to make.  Do you take 50 yard shots at ducks, I think this is unethical myself and would guess that you probably shoot lead at them since you do.   Is that a fair ASSumption to make about you?   

Hunters are our own worst enemies.      

And, duck hunting is quite cost effective for me if I would drive the half mile to the shore, swat two birds with two shells and then drive home more often.   

 

[BiggLuke]

Ethics?
That's a strong question.

To some... simply killing an animal would be bad ethics.
But, as hunters, we ask ourselves simply what is the moral thing to do while out hunting?

I mean, the end goal is after all to kill. Right?
So really what's the difference?
A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush. Right?   lol...

Personally, the ethics question comes up for me only when safety or non-killing questions come up.
Like picking up your garbage while out in the field, or not setting up too close to other hunters.

With your example of shooting a bird off the water... Yes I would not hesitate to do so, unless there were other factors involved. I think every one of us would ask ourselves, if it's safe to shoot it, then shoot it? Right?

Ethically, I would not shoot at a bird on the water if my pellets were going to ricochet into something.... like a dog or boat or person.
But otherwise, hell yeah I would sluice a duck.

[ghosthunter]

For me ethics is more about how I conduct myself around other hunters in the field , such as not crowding them, not shooting at ducks circling around to another's dekes, offering to have my dog pick up another's long sailing bird, not trying to beat them to a spot when they were there first. Not sky busting.

Fair chase on big game, offering a hand.

Being old and tenacious I sometimes fall asleep in the blind. The dog wakes me up if a bird lands in the spread and I feel obligated to kill it.  It doesn't bother me because I am helping preserve the species by killing the ones that are dumb enough to land amongst those stupid looking fakes.

[Brad Harshman]

Interesting - taking a 50+ yard shot is unethical but ground sluicing isn't.   Why?  What logic are you using? 

It can't be because sluicing gives you a better shot because it doesn't. Every hunter who has done it has seen birds covered by their bb spread and the bird keeps swimming or just flies away.  Its not a guaranteed kill shot.  Been there tried that - wont do it again.

I never said anyone was breaking the law.  I just cautioned that setting goals of killing as many birds as possible at whatever cost can lead to guys breaking the law (baiting, tresspassing, shooting hours, etc.).  I argue that this greed is the motivation.  Rather if we hunters strived to conduct ourselves as ethically as possible it will make better hunting for everyone and help our reputations as hunters. 

When all we do is brag about how many birds we shoot its not hard for the anti's to hate us.  Hows gaining access to private lands these days?  Easier or harder?  WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMY.

[Brad Harshman]

Ghosthunter your examples are actually forms of etiquette.   And having etiquette towards fellow hunters makes for a better experience for everyone.  Thank you for being kind to others.

[lokidog]

Interesting - taking a 50+ yard shot is unethical but ground sluicing isn't.   Why?  What logic are you using? 

It can't be because sluicing gives you a better shot because it doesn't. Every hunter who has done it has seen birds covered by their bb spread and the bird keeps swimming or just flies away.  Its not a guaranteed kill shot.  Been there tried that - wont do it again.

I never said anyone was breaking the law.  I just cautioned that setting goals of killing as many birds as possible at whatever cost can lead to guys breaking the law (baiting, tresspassing, shooting hours, etc.).  I argue that this greed is the motivation.  Rather if we hunters strived to conduct ourselves as ethically as possible it will make better hunting for everyone and help our reputations as hunters. 

When all we do is brag about how many birds we shoot its not hard for the anti's to hate us.  Hows gaining access to private lands these days?  Easier or harder?  WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMY.

Uh yeah, you said doing something YOU consider unethical leads to breaking laws (baiting).  I consider shooting past 50 yards unethical therefore, like you, I will assume that if you are willing to do that you would be willing to break the law by using lead shot.  It is the EXACT same reasoning as you have put out there.

Also, IF you swat farther than 35 yards, yeah you might miss some, do you miss more than ones shot at on the wing?  I really doubt it.  I can't remember the last bird I shot at on the water at less than 35 yards, that was not diving while trying to get away after being crippled that I missed.   

I will repeat, I have NOT broken these laws while trying to get as close to my limit as possible.  It is hunters like you that degrade other LEGAL hunters for their choices of means or method that causes more damage to the hunting community than someone choosing to shoot a non-crippled bird on the water or in a field. 

I am now done with your arrogance!!!   

Oh yeah, etiquette and ethics are two sides of the same coin.