Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: Brad Harshman on December 18, 2013, 05:49:42 PM
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Be honest. If this happened to you what did you do?
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If my goal is to limit out do I have the choice to select a legal option :dunno:
:stirthepot:
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Silly question, even those who would shoot two minutes early aren't going to say so. The morning legal time is so dark that I will usually wait for five minutes or more to shoot as I usually like to know what I'm shooting at. I do wish they would make the evening time five or so minutes later though as the birds seem to like to fly those ten minutes after close and it is still plenty light enought to ID them. :twocents:
If my goal is to limit out do I have the choice to select a legal option :dunno:
:stirthepot:
Huh? There is a legal option, maybe there wasn't when you posted?
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so many times this has happened. I wait. most times if not spooked they wait. of course whose to say whose watch is a couple minutes off
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who carries a watch or phone with them?
Who doesn't?
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This has happen to me many times . I always wait.
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This is why you buy a gamo whisper :dunno:
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This is why you buy a gamo whisper :dunno:
I prefer my scuba gear and a gunny sack....
And yeah this -
who carries a watch or phone with them?
Who doesn't?
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I would wait, usually I can't even see at the start of legal shooting anyway and have to wait a few more minutes anyway.
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For me, the only real question is, is it light enough to Identify them?
I know I would personally hate to shoot a triple in the dark, and they turned out to be 3 pintails, or 3 hens. Then there's no excuse, cause you shot the wrong kind of birds.
Sometimes it's just better to wait until well after legal shooting time.
For instance... really thick fog. Pretty much all the the birds are just a black sillouette.
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most guys I've Sen dont wait
if its safe to see the birds dont have a watch. sky busters now thats another hot topic
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We wait.
There are *censored*s that start 5 min early and scare away EVERYTHING that WAS near us.
At Ridgefield refuge where I mostly hunt now,
the gamies like to hide in the dark and watch the time.
Every once in awhile someone gets a little visit in the blind.
"who carries a watch or phone with them?" Seriously?
You have your frikin cell phone with you. I know, I hear them ringing or making stupid noises while in the field.
By the way, the gamies go by cell phone time.
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just wait give the others around you the same chance . you know your gonna scare off any birds in another persons spread if you shoot before legal time. i set an alarm on my phone for legal shooting time and atomic time on your phone is always correct. when it goes off then you can shoot.
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Why start early? Most can't ID them when it's that dark anyway. We have waited until after opening the last few times, so we could pick out drakes only.
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just wait give the others around you the same chance . you know your gonna scare off any birds in another persons spread if you shoot before legal time. i set an alarm on my phone for legal shooting time and atomic time on your phone is always correct. when it goes off then you can shoot.
:yeah:
Exactly what we do.
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This happen to me a few years back had geese land in the spread almost an hour before shooting light I thought no way will they stick around. Sure enough they did and we shot them all :mgun: :mgun:
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him fiveUnited before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
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guess you can tell who's from the west side if they are talking about phones & alarms. I got a watch.
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him fiveUnited before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
my hoyts not as loud coach :chuckle:
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him five minutes before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
I can't see deer even 15 minutes after legal time. There's no way I would, or COULD shoot, five minutes before.
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him fiveUnited before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
honestly coach I don't find myself paying much attention to big game shooting hours. I probably should more. :dunno:
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why can't I select thew choise to leave them on the water and shoot the next ones to wing in???
I just leave them sit there
your choices suck
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to me guys shooting before hours dont bother me as much as guys that you bust. but hey I'm just trying to get to 5000 posts
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If it's light enough to I.D. them, it's shooting time. It's never occurred to me to be a clock watcher in the blind.
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Wait the for the legal hours. If you really need some fowl that bad then go to Safeway........ I friggin hate slob hunters and that means the pricks that shoot stuff before legal light.
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:yeah:
HERE HERE!!!!
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Wait the for the legal hours. If you really need some fowl that bad then go to Safeway........ I friggin hate slob hunters and that means the pricks that shoot stuff before legal light.
:yeah:
HERE HERE!!!!
:yeah:
Not to mention it is against the law to shoot before hours. So not even a question of ethics. You are either a criminal or not!
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Does not matter if it is ducks, geese, deer, or elk, if you shoot before or after legal hours you are poaching.
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who carries a watch or phone with them? if its light enough out to see what you're shooting at, shoot away :twocents:.
Any one that cares about being legal when they shoot waterfowl does.
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who carries a watch or phone with them? if its light enough out to see what you're shooting at, shoot away :twocents:.
Surely you are kidding.
Every hunter should be required to carry a timepiece. How else are you going to be compliant with shooting light game laws.
Also, ethically you need to ID your game no matter the time, so if extra dark morning, shooting light changes....
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If it's light enough to I.D. them, it's shooting time. It's never occurred to me to be a clock watcher in the blind.
You may not be a clock watcher but the game wardens,so I wait until shooting time.
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the game wardens what
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If it's light enough to I.D. them, it's shooting time. It's never occurred to me to be a clock watcher in the blind.
:yeah:
who carries a watch or phone with them? if its light enough out to see what you're shooting at, shoot away :twocents:.
Surely you are kidding.
Every hunter should be required to carry a timepiece. How else are you going to be compliant with shooting light game laws.
Also, ethically you need to ID your game no matter the time, so if extra dark morning, shooting light changes....
Apparently, you haven't been to the eastside, especially during opening day on modern elk or deer.
And to all of you who carries a watch or phone with them? I have an answer.
1.) I don't have $400 dollars laying around to replace my phone.
2.) Watches can also go out and make noise.
I am not a rich, sit on your ass all day, can afford everything westsider.
Look pal, if you want to get in a pissing match, you have selected the wrong guy.
I have hunted all over this state. Shooting light ethically changes depending on weather.
You can't afford a twenty dollar watch, you surely can't afford to go hunting.
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I am not a rich, sit on your ass all day, can afford everything westsider.
I didn't see anything that warranted that response. Please dial back a bit.
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:yeah: what is this guys deal?
Calm the heck down man, if you don't want to carry one then don't but don't act like a watch is a class warfare subject. A watch battery lasts like six years by the way :chuckle:
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I see a timeout in someone's future!!
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I always found that "Legal shooting times" were pretty liberal here. By the time I could see well enough to identify my target, it was always a few minutes into shooting hours. And when I was walking towards my pickup nearly a half hour before the end of shooting hours, I met another hunter who was also done hunting, and like we agreed on: "If you can't see 'em (deer), you don't shoot 'em". :chuckle:
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Naches, too bad you didn't join HuntWa sooner, you might have been able to get a watch in the Christmas gift exchange... it was a $25 suggested limit though so maybe not. :rolleyes: :chuckle:
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Naches, too bad you didn't join HuntWa sooner, you might have been able to get a watch in the Christmas gift exchange... it was a $25 suggested limit though so maybe not. :rolleyes:
:chuckle: I've got a watch that I had to buy and wear in basic training that cost $12.99 back in 2008, it's still working.
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I hate wearing watches. I use my phone - and I'm an eastsider!!!! :chuckle: The only thing I don't like about using my phone is how bright the *censored* is. Thinking about buying a watch that I'll attach to my waders. I hunt around a lot of mountains so many times shooting time is not shooting light. Hell, most of the time I've hunted the big river it's been too dark at shooting time.
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I would put my phone on alarm mode and not shoot until it buzzed in my inside jacket pocket.
just me
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I had a Casio $8.95 watch that was a few years old when I inadvertently wore it SCUBA diving to 50 feet of salt water. I figured it was a goner, as it only said "water resistant". The battery died and it quit running a few years later. :chuckle: I've had 2 more of the same watch since then. I think they've gone up to $20 now. :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I would put my phone on alarm mode and not shoot until it buzzed in my inside jacket pocket.
just me
I try to remember to leave the phone in the rig. Seems like it only rings when I'm on a deer or coyote stand! :chuckle:
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No kidding. I have watches Ihaven't used in years still keeping good time on my dresser.
Naches, how do you keep track of arriving at work etc....with no watch or timepiece?
Us rich guys over here on the westside are curious.
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I would put my phone on alarm mode and not shoot until it buzzed in my inside jacket pocket.
just me
That makes too much sense - why would I do that??? ;) I never turn my phone on silent because it's my work phone, but I'll have to remember this. Sometimes the simplest stuff rides right on by me.... :bash:
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Poor Naches--Didn't realize he was walking into a hornet's nest! :chuckle:
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I would put my phone on alarm mode and not shoot until it buzzed in my inside jacket pocket.
just me
That makes too much sense - why would I do that??? ;) I never turn my phone on silent because it's my work phone, but I'll have to remember this. Sometimes the simplest stuff rides right on by me.... :bash:
I have a cheap prepay phone its always with me and its always on either buzz or silent its my clock...my truck has no clock ....I have not worn a watch in like 20 years....so its my phone. but its a junky $20 one so almost cheaper than a watch.
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My prepaid Tracphone cost me $19.95 at Wallyworld. I keep it on "Outdoor", so I can feel it vibrate. As loud as it rings, sometimes I still can't hear it! I still wear a watch. I refuse to pull my phone out every time I want to see what time it is. :chuckle:
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so put it on vibrate and drop it down your pants hit snooze a few times and by the time it gets light you will have already had a good day hunting birds or not ! :chuckle:
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so put it on vibrate and drop it down your pants hit snooze a few times and by the time it gets light you will have already had a good day hunting birds or not ! :chuckle:
Good thing there were no cell phones back when I hunted Ducks! :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I let ducks go all the time even 30 seconds before legal light. Other hunters usually screw me and shoot early but I know I'm legal. In fact had a bunch of ducks on the water at first light with only two in range but with other hunters on the water set up to I wanted the first shots to count so waited till more were gonna show. And then it happened some other hunters come motoring along and under full power on the trolling motor they started shooting at coot right in front of us and blowing there duck call like crazy in he middle of open water. And then ruined everyone else's set ups by going in front of them. Later they proceeded by houses firing the same way right in front of houses. They made sure hey were dropped off and had no vehicle. I could hear everyone else was pissed but I couldn't call them in because had no minutes on my phone. Let's just say we left with 3 ducks that day. :bash:
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I have not had a watch in 20 years or more. Hunting I use my phone or gps.
You can go to any dollar store and get a stick on digital clock to put in your gear.
Small light weight.
Most trucks and cars have a clock in them. On the way to work I pass 10 clocks.
Time is every where.
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the problem with shooting a duck is you have to eat it
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the problem with shooting a duck is you have to eat it
No way man - some of the best jerky there is! And I have a roast recipe that is the only other way I'll cook them. Still haven't pepperoni'd them yet. Like the jerky too much.
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enough spice anything tastes ok :chuckle:
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As this is my first year hunting and I am sometimes out in the blind alone I always take my phone with me and set my alarms for shooting hours... then I just try not to check it every 30 seconds. A little off topic but I put my phone in a little zip lock bag and tuck it into my wader chest pocket. Seems like just a little extra precaution in case an " Oh %*!#" comes up.
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the problem with shooting a duck is you have to eat it
Just cooked up the best duck I've ever had (goldeneyes), I'll post in the recipes section.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
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Apparently, you haven't been to the eastside, especially during opening day on modern elk or deer.
And to all of you who carries a watch or phone with them? I have an answer.
1.) I don't have $400 dollars laying around to replace my phone.
2.) Watches can also go out and make noise.
I am not a rich, sit on your ass all day, can afford everything westsider.
I have.
I am a poor, work all day east sider that bought a $20 Timex watch at Wal-Mart so that I can ensure I'm legal and save myself a ticket. I don't own an I-phone or smart phone and don't need one. Heck, my cheapo flip phone has a clock on it even.
Even a technically deficient idiot like me has figured out how to make my "expensive" watch silent, save for an alarm when I am on one of my high dollar, DIY, sleep in a pup tent hunting trips.
If all of this is beyond you, then maybe you should stay out of the woods.
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the problem with shooting a duck is you have to eat it
That's not a problem around here bro. Ducks are delicious if you know how to cook them properly.
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Figured it would be good to bring up the penalties.
Those cited under state law would face a misdemeanor charge punishable up to a $1,000 fine and/or 90 days.
Those cited under federal law (all migratory bird violations can be cited into federal court, even if the case was made on private land) in eastern WA face a citation of $175+ $5 per minute before/after hours. In western WA it is a $125 citation. However, if you fight the citation, OR the officer requires you to appear in court the judge can fine you up to $15,000 and/or 6 months in jail.
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Won't start early not worth it. If it's mallards then you can begin at proper start time because you can ID them by listening. Just won't start with a flock of mallards. Coming as singles or groups of two fine then just pick the drakes. They really need to be close and you really need them to communicate to do this. Anymore and it's just amazing to hear how early people begin and I'm sure they don't have a clue what the bird is.
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Kidding right? This has nothing to do with ethics. You're either legal or you aren't. If you know it's 5 minutes before the start of shooting, the real question is, "am I a poacher or not?" I've had opportunities on almost every setup I've had to shoot before legal hours. I've had opportunities on deer and elk before and after legal hours. If it's not legal, you don't do it.
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Kidding right? This has nothing to do with ethics. You're either legal or you aren't. If you know it's 5 minutes before the start of shooting, the real question is, "am I a poacher or not?" I've had opportunities on almost every setup I've had to shoot before legal hours. I've had opportunities on deer and elk before and after legal hours. If it's not legal, you don't do it.
Bingo!!! No excuses! None....
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If it's light enough to I.D. them, it's shooting time. It's never occurred to me to be a clock watcher in the blind.
:yeah:
who carries a watch or phone with them? if its light enough out to see what you're shooting at, shoot away :twocents:.
Surely you are kidding.
Every hunter should be required to carry a timepiece. How else are you going to be compliant with shooting light game laws.
Also, ethically you need to ID your game no matter the time, so if extra dark morning, shooting light changes....
Apparently, you haven't been to the eastside, especially during opening day on modern elk or deer.
And to all of you who carries a watch or phone with them? I have an answer.
1.) I don't have $400 dollars laying around to replace my phone.
2.) Watches can also go out and make noise.
I am not a rich, sit on your ass all day, can afford everything westsider.
So, let me understand what you're saying. You can afford a shotgun and shells, license, stamps, boots, camo, other clothing, decoys, gas and a rig, probably even a dog and all his expenses, but not an $11 Casio wrist watch because you're "not a rich, sit on your ass all day, can afford everything westsider"? Interesting thought process. Good luck with that. You'll be even less rich when you get fined and have all of your hunting stuff taken for shooting outside of regular hunting hours. I would love to see the response from the gamie when you explain why your exempt from the rules.
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
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No excuses! My phone goes everywhere I go. I got more info on hunting situations than most computers! Yes honey holes! And past weather conditions and wind for ducks and geese.
There is this thing called phone insurance..
Again no excuses...
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
No idea what your point is here. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
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ALways no questions asked wait till shooting hours! I sometimes wait a minute after incase the Game warden is close by and his watch is off....
I don;t get how this is a ethics question.... it's more of who is willing to break the law for a bird.
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
No idea what your point is here. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Really? I thought this was pretty funny. You know there's always the guy that comes blowing through right after shooting time starts. Not sure about the Bueller thing though. :chuckle:
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
No idea what your point is here. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Really? I thought this was pretty funny. You know there's always the guy that comes blowing through right after shooting time starts. Not sure about the Bueller thing though. :chuckle:
Now I get it. Thanks Loki. I start off slow then taper off! Yeah, nothing like being there at 4 AM sharp to set up just to have someone walk through your spread 5 minutes after opening. That blows.
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the game wardens what
The game wardens are clock watchers. You understand now?
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I go when ever I am awake, use a bird net, capture whatever is in the net and then sink them all and drown them. It's 5:00 somewhere! :chuckle:
If I do not want to pack my netting with me, I take my automatic shotgun with several magazines and unload into the flock. If I can see a silhouette of birds, pull the trigger, change out mags and repeat.
Come on man! what kind of questions are these? I only shoot what I can identify.............. If it is legal, I do it.
Who will be the next one to put up a ethics question?
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him fiveUnited before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
honestly coach I don't find myself paying much attention to big game shooting hours. I probably should more. :dunno:
I found out this year big game shooting hours are different than in the waterfowl regs. Starting times are the same but half hour longer in the evening for big game. So don't use big game hours in evening hunts for waterfowl. Stupid me but hard to see horns much after the waterfowl shooting times have ended anyways.
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Ill wait until shooting time if there are some in the decoys, then I am sluicing them!
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Ill wait until shooting time if there are some in the decoys, then I am sluicing them!
Nice tie-in with the other thread! :tup:
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
No idea what your point is here. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Pianoman you nailed. There really was no point simply just making a crack. Given the thread is really a legality question under the disguise of an ethics question I thought it was appropriate. :tup:
These threads resurface every year and have been beaten down time and time again with the only outcome being that waterfowlers are divided and will remain that way. :twocents:
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Any real duck hunter knows the birds don't fly until 1 hour after shooting time so whats the point of being set up so early?
Just buzz right in during the first 20 min of daylight set up and never have to face this issue.
:beatdeadhorse:
No idea what your point is here. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Pianoman you nailed. There really was no point simply just making a crack. Given the thread is really a legality question under the disguise of an ethics question I thought it was appropriate. :tup:
These threads resurface every year and have been beaten down time and time again with the only outcome being that waterfowlers are divided and will remain that way. :twocents:
We're good! I honestly had no idea of what you were getting at - open question. I'm dumb a lot! :chuckle: :chuckle:
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I also set the alarm on my phone. And, if you are in the right spot, you should have ducks in the decoys before shooting time damn near every day.
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I also set the alarm on my phone. And, if you are in the right spot, you should have ducks in the decoys before shooting time damn near every day.
Well, I guess that makes you one of those rich, sit on your butt all day, lighting your cigars with $100 bills, law-abiding Westsiders! You should be ashamed!
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Ethics----sluicing.
Legal---- shooting outside of set hours.
In this thread you are either a poacher or not.
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Ethics----sluicing.
Legal---- shooting outside of set hours.
In this thread you are either a poacher or not.
That about sums it up I'd say. Hours are set. Nothing ethical to debate. Legal vs. not legal.
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Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
Maybe not required but is your life worth sneaking up on a brush pile?
I can barely see 10 feet in front of my boat in the dark, fog and rain. Don't assume I see you.
I run slow in the dark with all lights on but it still dangerous.
Wear a headlamp at least.
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I also set the alarm on my phone. And, if you are in the right spot, you should have ducks in the decoys before shooting time damn near every day.
Well, I guess that makes you one of those rich, sit on your butt all day, lighting your cigars with $100 bills, law-abiding Westsiders! You should be ashamed!
That's me! I actually hadn't read the entire thread when I posted. I would have stayed quiet if I had known I was outing myself!
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What an individual regards as "ethical" is as varied as the hairs on a dog. I see this topic going on forever! :twocents: :chuckle:
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What an individual regards as "ethical" is as varied as the hairs on a dog. I see this topic going on forever! :twocents: :chuckle:
Because it has nothing to do with ethics in anything but the title, it should've be decided with the second post. :dunno:
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I always have my watch set 5 mins ahead. :chuckle:
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I always have my watch set 5 mins ahead. :chuckle:
By the time you wake up and load your gun you should be legal :chuckle:
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Should have already been loaded when you left the house right?
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Should have already been loaded when you left the house right?
Lol.....back to ethics again :chuckle:
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OK guys don't say I never done nothing for you......
click this link and download it to your phone, set the alarm to go off when it is shooting light and/or set it to go off again when shooting hours are over depending on what you need.
http://www.myxer.com/ringtone/id/223/huntingtones/Mallard/ (http://www.myxer.com/ringtone/id/223/huntingtones/Mallard/)
You're welcome.
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That ringtone would be ok any where except a duck blind.
You would be using an electronic device to make a duck call.
Wouldn't necessarily be the express purpose of the ringtone, but if Mr. Gammie heard it, you would have some splainin to do.
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That reminds me of something my brother and I thought of....
Yes, electronic calls are a no no...
But, If you put your brother on speaker phone blowing a call, would that count as electronic calling? or is it just the same as being there in person?
:chuckle:
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That reminds me of something my brother and I thought of....
Yes, electronic calls are a no no...
But, If you put your brother on speaker phone blowing a call, would that count as electronic calling? or is it just the same as being there in person?
:chuckle:
How would you work them in if you weren't watching them?
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With the camera on the phone.... DUH..... :chuckle:
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With the camera on the phone.... DUH..... :chuckle:
Lol, you have put some thought into this.
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All I'm saying is he's a much better caller than me.... and It has occured to me that this MIGHT be an option... lol....
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It's very clever I'll give you that. :chuckle:
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That reminds me of something my brother and I thought of....
Yes, electronic calls are a no no...
But, If you put your brother on speaker phone blowing a call, would that count as electronic calling? or is it just the same as being there in person?
:chuckle:
Seems i need my son's friend on speed dial. He is a wicked caller.
In answer to your question--- still using an electronic device to produce the sound.
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crap - I didn't think of that :chuckle:
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so if you had a huge buck and could see him fiveUnited before legal light would you take him ? should be the same answer I guess I'm alone here.
I had an elk in front of me 20 minutes before shooting hours and I could see him plain as day (which surprised me, I'm usually the one to leave 5-10 before shooting time is over cause I can't see antlers anyway). I waited and shot him the first second I could after the opener, 7:05 am
Oh! If you need an alarm don't bother with the silent mode use a duck call as your alarm! :chuckle:
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:yeah:
Does not matter if it is ducks, geese, deer, or elk, if you shoot before or after legal hours you are poaching.
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5 minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes - all the same.
Just do the right thing.
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I also set my alarm on my phone for legal shoot time (vibrate mode). If ducks land in the decs early I will hold tight and just whatch and wait for the alarm. Now when it gets to within a minute or 2 of shootime i tend to get on edge a bit. And if others start firing early i will grab the gun and wait for them to flush. If they flush they get popped if they sit tight I wait for the alarm but only in that 1-2 minutes early frame. I tell on refuge hunts i'm scared to death to be the first to fire a shot. I've had birds in the decs the alarm has buzzed in my pocket but no else has fired yet and I will do the same wait for someone else to shoot first. Or only shoot if the birds flush
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Had an lame experience with this topic on Friday. Took work off to hunt a quality site up in skagit with some buds. Waited until shooting light had some ducks cruising the deles, double checked the legal time which was 7 20 I think it was. The other blind down the way, started shooting a few minutes early, well OK whatever the ducks we were watching were gone. Anyway we get to hunting, had a decent shoot.
Then around 9 or 10am we see this guy walking out of what we thought was a closed hunting area. He walks up to our blind with his two labs running wild and immediately starts accusing us of shooting early and we were lucky that there were no officers around. Politely, we inform him that no we were shooting at legal time and he might be referring too the other group of hunters the next blind over. Anyway he didn't even know what the correct shooting light was so my buddy showed him on his smartphone. Over and over this dude is accusing us of breaking the law and shooting at 7 10 or something and that he is affiliated with wdfw. Bs or something. Meanwhile ducks are flying around and he is starting to mess up our hunt. So at this Point we are like get the f outta here! Different words still trying to be civil. Finally he starts to go still yelling that we are wrong and gets picked up by some truck or something. This dude was an idiot he seemed drunk and we think he was trying to shift blame on us while we saw him coming out of a closed area. He also said some crap like he is a local and basically we shouldn't be there coming from Seattle area. But so what I took a vacation day got up at 1 45am to secure a spot, paddled a raft around a pond in snow freezing wind to set decoys I got as much right to hunt this as any in the state!
Sorry for the rant, it was a good day all in all we ran out ta shells, I just don't like people coming into my hunt accusing me of hunting Illegally, if you have a problem call the wdfw cops let them sort it out I have nothing to hide, PS I always have my cellphone to check the time!
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Thanks guys for the good conversation. Appreciate everyones honesty too. I started this poll because I wanted to hear how everyone felt and honored the simple rules of
Legal shooting hours. It's easy to be tempted to break the law especially when you've been waiting for that moment all year/month/week, coupled with a sleepness night and an extremely early morning. A lot of hard work and dedication goes into hunting waterfowl. And Its difficult to let the birds go, they could be the only ones you'll see all day. I get it, I've been there.
Couple years ago, we we're hunting this pond on public land surrounded by corn fields. It hadnt froze over entirely and it was the proverbial "X". Anyway, 2 minutes before legal hours eight geese land 15 yds in front of us. It was amazing. We had just loaded up and we sat there. Never spoke a word, then as soon as the ripples settled they honked fiendishly and took off. Never took a shot. I share that moment with my good hunting. We talk just as much about that moment as we do about how the birds loved that pond and the epic hunts we had there.
Funny how moments like that inspire me so deeply. I guess I truely honor the birds, the sport, the challenge, the opportunity.
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If you've ever hunted with the "other guy" you learn quickly that if they will bend this rule there is no telling which rule they will break next.
“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”
― Aldo Leopold
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"I share that moment with my good hunting. We talk just as much about that moment as we do about how the birds loved that pond and the epic hunts we had there."
:tup:
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I cannot remember any time that at legal shooting hours you could properly indentify the birds. We always have birds in the decoys early. Is it about killing the birds or the experience? In the age of technology that we live in. If you can afford to go hunting (VERY EXPENSIVE) you should be able to afford some type of time telling device??. LEGAL IS LEGAL.
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I always wait untill lst. Always wait until the minute on my phone. A big ticket for shooting early at a duck or goose isn't worth it to me.
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8) if I can see the color of the bird I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
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Good job on your 3rd post.....legal hours...screw 'em. For that matter I wouldn't worry about shell limits or bird limits. Heck, swan probably tastes pretty good as well.
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8) if I can see the color of the bird I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
Super, I just love poachers. :tup: :rolleyes:
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8) if I can see the color of the bird I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
Solid posts from this guy. You can tell he will be a long term contributing member here, and I look forward to his future insight. :tup:
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8) if I can see the color of the bird I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
I hope he picks up the 'skyblasting' thread.
An insider's view would be very enlightening.
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8) if I can see the color of the bird I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
yeah, the :devil: may care what time it is. Also 86% of people on here and 100% of game wardens care what time it is.
I'm sure you could tell us how how far away you can hit a goose with 00 Buckshot too :hunt2:
You sir...nevermind :camp:
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C'mon boys, no troll-feeding! :bdid:
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Actually if you can see color on the ducks, I guarantee it's beyond legal hunting hours. So maybe he's not really saying he'd shoot before legal time.
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Actually if you can see color on the ducks, I guarantee it's beyond legal hunting hours. So maybe he's not really saying he'd shoot before legal time.
I'm blastin away. who cares what time it is
Settles it for me.
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Last Saturday legal shooting light was at 0720.
I had ducks in the decoys well before that time and could easily see their colors and identify them.
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I haven't hunted ducks in a while but for us it was always 10 or 15 minutes past legal time in the morning before we could see good enough to identify what kind of duck we were looking at. That's how I remember it anyway.
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The hours might have been changed to later over the years.
Legal hours are pretty light so I am careful to wait for the alarm to go off.
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I think the legal light, bird id debate's biggest factor is the weather. I have had mornings where I could pick out and id birds well before shooting light and then the next morning couldn't id them even 10-15 minutes after LST.
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so I'm a poacher becouse I shoot if I can identify the bird? hmmm... throw the cuffs on me
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No, you are a troll AND a poacher if you shoot prior to legal shooting hours.
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23 votes to 163 :tung: :chuckle:
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isn't the whole purpose of shooting hours being regulated is so you can identify the bird you are shooting at? so I'm a poacher becouse I take a bird Mabey 4 or 5 min after legal light? seems a little harsh.
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isn't the whole purpose of shooting hours being regulated is so you can identify the bird you are shooting at? so I'm a poacher becouse I take a bird Mabey 4 or 5 min after legal light? seems a little harsh.
No, not harsh, it's actually the law. If you don't like the law, break it. But that makes you a poacher. Please hunt near me. Please!
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I think the legal light, bird id debate's biggest factor is the weather. I have had mornings where I could pick out and id birds well before shooting light and then the next morning couldn't id them even 10-15 minutes after LST.
:yeah: I was considering this after my comment. It was clear with no fog last weekend.
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It's difficult not to comment isn't pman?
These kind of people piss off all but the HW 10% poaching population.
"I take a bird Mabey 4 or 5 min after legal light"
"it was after shooting hours but I could count his tines"
"it was almost across the road, what's the big deal"
"an unloaded gun in a vehicle is for safety, I'm safe so I'm exempt"
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I've waited for up to 20 min after shooting light on some stormy mornings before I could tell drakes from hens. on blue bird days you can sometimes identify birds almost 20 min after the end of shooting light. I have been confronted by a warden after dumping a loner goose 4 min after legal light on one of those blue bird days and he was not concerned with sticking a magnet to my shells and checking plug then that "poached" goose. his exact words were "if it wasn't so clear out I would have more of a problem with it. just make sure your using common sense" no hand cuffs. no ticket.
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There was a time, I believe, when shooting hours for waterfowl were different than big game. It ended right at sunset instead of a half hour. Back then I bet there were several people breaking the rules. I can't remember if it also started at sunrise too...... :dunno: Anybody remember that?
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You got a break from a LEO that was feeling generous.
You obviously have no regard for the law, you shot a goose after legal hours, ergo you are a poacher.
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Sounds like you made a bad decision and got away with it. Sorry but hours are hours. We don't get to decide. Granted, it was a few minutes and I have no problem with the warden making the call he did. However, if you were to have gotten a ticket and whatever else he decided then I simply would have no sympathy.
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Here is another question for you guys. You know how the published shooting hours are for Eastern and Western WA and for a week period at a time. Those times are not very accurate.
Well, you know the intent of the shooting hours law is from 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset. Well, what if you look up the sunrise time on your smart phone or computer for the location you are hunting and do the easy math for 1/2 hour before sunrise to get when shooting time should be? And guess what, that time could be several minutes off of the published shooting time. (Especially due to the fact that the published times change usually by 10 minutes from Sunday to Monday). So, it really might be as much as 15 minutes off depending on your location and how close to the beginning or end of the week it is.
So, a guy that shoots 4 minutes early (according to the published times) might actually be within the 1/2 before sunrise window that is supposed to be legal light.
I realize the published times are what we have to go with, but with the ease we can now determine sunrise/sunset with smart phones and gps's, it seems that the published times should just become a "guide" and there should be another method by gps or internet site to determine a more exact time.
Personally, I will refrain from labeling someone with the word "poacher" when shooting 4 minutes off of published official times. Not that I condone it, and I sure wouldn't shoot before published times myself..........I just think that is a little harsh to label them as a poacher. :twocents:
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I can't argue your logic. It makes sense. However, it is a slippery slope that anything in the regs be seen as a guide instead of law.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
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I agree with the time issue, but the published time is what I go with.
There is enough interpretation in the regs for my blood.
Poacher is a harsh word, but that is in fact what shooting an animal illegally is.
I'm sorry but the law is the law and this is not a one time thing for this guy, he doesn't care what time it is.
Would I be so harsh on a person that made one bad decision and won't do it again?
Absolutely not, even though he poached it.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.
Yes I would think so. Legal hunting hours are based on sunrise and sunset. The GPS gives you accurate sunrise and sunset times for your precise location. It's not an approximation like the times listed in the pamphlet.
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Makes sense, thank you.
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So, a guy that shoots 4 minutes early (according to the published times) might actually be within the 1/2 before sunrise window that is supposed to be legal light.
MHO on this is that you are correct, if the hunter is trying to be legal.
However, whatever means this guy used to determine legal shooting hours is irrelevent.
As long as he can see the color of the bird, he doesn't care what time it is.
In this situation I am inclined to be harsh.
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isn't shooting light for birds different than game animals?
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I remember Bigtex or somebody else with some authority mention on this board before about this subject and I believe they said the published times are official and anything else would likely not hold-up in court. I can't remember if that was a definite answer though.......or just his personal opinion........ :dunno:
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isn't shooting light for birds different than game animals?
No, they are the same.
But as Curly mentioned earlier, I vaguely remember them being different in the past.
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So, a guy that shoots 4 minutes early (according to the published times) might actually be within the 1/2 before sunrise window that is supposed to be legal light.
MHO on this is that you are correct, if the hunter is trying to be legal.
However, whatever means this guy used to determine legal shooting hours is irrelevent.
As long as he can see the color of the bird, he doesn't care what time it is.
In this situation I am inclined to be harsh.
I agree. That attitude is not quite right where a guy doesn't give a rip about what time it is. Law abiding people wait for the actual time and others just start shooting whenever they feel it is right; that is not fair to the law abiding people.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
This should be legal, but I'm sure the published times would have precedence.
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isn't shooting light for birds different than game animals?
No, they are the same.
But as Curly mentioned earlier, I vaguely remember them being different in the past.
i just checked. start time is the same, game bird shooting light ends half hour earlier. excluding grouse
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isn't shooting light for birds different than game animals?
No, they are the same.
But as Curly mentioned earlier, I vaguely remember them being different in the past.
I sort of remember it being that way for a year or two back in the 80's. But I just can't remember for sure when it was........could have been a time in the 90's (basically, I just remember it being the case and remember all the birds we could have gotten if the times were what they should have been. :bash: )
I remember back when shooting time for upland birds in Eastern WA was 12:00 noon. You could definitely see the colors on the roosters at noon. :tup:
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isn't shooting light for birds different than game animals?
No, they are the same.
But as Curly mentioned earlier, I vaguely remember them being different in the past.
i just checked. start time is the same, game bird shooting light ends half hour earlier. excluding grouse
I never stay all day out in the boat so I have never looked at the evening time.
Thanks for clarification.
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(basically, I just remember it being the case and remember all the birds we could have gotten if the times were what they should have been. :bash: )
No kidding!!!!!
I remember years ago in Kansas picking up decoys in the evening with hundreds of ducks flying and landing all around us.
Nothing we could do :bash:
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Yes, hours for birds is to sunset, everything else is 30 minutes after sunset.
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Yes, hours for birds is to sunset, everything else is 30 minutes after sunset.
Well thanks a lot bobcat, now you got me wondering :chuckle: :chuckle:
Tomorrow I will watch the sunrise time on my boat GPS and see when the shooting time alarm goes off on my watch.
I got nothing else to do before legal time.
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Was watching a hunting show just 2 days ago about this,the wardens were watching the hunters while they were coming to shore,sure enough a flock came in all waited but 1 hunter,he shot, the wardens walked down to him told him what time it was and fined him then and there.It was only min. after shooting time but it looked pretty dark to me.
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I was chatting with a warden last night at Crescent Lake, hunting light was over at 4:25, around 5:01 we hear about 15 shots coming from an adjacent field. Needless to say he burned rubber over to where they were. I hope he got those schmucks.
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There's a difference between the formula for hunting hours (1/2 hour before, etc.), and the Official Hunting Hours listed in the pamphlet. The official hunting hours are what the game wardens go by and may vary by quite a bit from the formula for that day, especially when one minute can mean the difference between a ticket or not. In addition, the hours are different for waterfowl and for big game. Big game is 1/2 hour before to 1/2 hour after. Waterfowl is 1/2 hour before sunrise to sunset, not 1/2 hour after. And don't forget the further time restrictions on specific species and/or areas, like 8-4 for geese in areas 2A and 2B.
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"Uh officer, you are wrong. My _______________ (Insert excuse; GPS, cell phone, friend, software program) said that I was OK to shoot."
Let me know how that works for you. Pretty sure they are going to go with the info posted in the regs...
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Yes, hours for birds is to sunset, everything else is 30 minutes after sunset.
Missed this, correctamundo.
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To me the times printed in the pamphlet are nothing more than an estimation of the actual and correct legal hunting hours. The intent of the law is for hunting hours to be based on sunrise and sunset times. Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, sunrise and sunset times are dependent on your location. So as I said, I always go by the sunrise and sunset time on my GPS. If others would rather use the times that the WDFW comes up with, fine. Either way seems legitimate to me. And in reality, it has never mattered for me. I'm always a half hour or more into legal time before I feel I can see well enough to shoot anyway.
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To me the times printed in the pamphlet are nothing more than an estimation of the actual and correct legal hunting hours. The intent of the law is for hunting hours to be based on sunrise and sunset times. Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, sunrise and sunset times are dependent on your location. So as I said, I always go by the sunrise and sunset time on my GPS. If others would rather use the times that the WDFW comes up with, fine. Either way seems legitimate to me. And in reality, it has never mattered for me. I'm always a half hour or more into legal time before I feel I can see well enough to shoot anyway.
Then I'm guessing you'd be wrong and would get a ticket if it came to that. That's precisely why it says at the top of the page "Official hunting hours", to resolve any ambiguity whatsoever. I would ask ucwarden for his take on it, but the regs in both the waterfowl pamphlet and the big game pamphlet say the same thing - "Official". I'm sure if you took it to court, you'd have a good chance of winning. But why would you want to just to prove a point when the pamphlet has the times right there for you?
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To me the times printed in the pamphlet are nothing more than an estimation of the actual and correct legal hunting hours. The intent of the law is for hunting hours to be based on sunrise and sunset times. Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, sunrise and sunset times are dependent on your location. So as I said, I always go by the sunrise and sunset time on my GPS. If others would rather use the times that the WDFW comes up with, fine. Either way seems legitimate to me. And in reality, it has never mattered for me. I'm always a half hour or more into legal time before I feel I can see well enough to shoot anyway.
This is crazy. You believe the "intent" of the law is one thing (assuring good light for hunters based upon sunrise and sunset) yet you feel that your GPS is better to give you proper shooting times. Then you admit that you cannot usually see well enough a half hour into shooting light anyway.... :o So which is it? Should the law be changed a half hour past when it is now?
At sunrise does your GPS know that you are deep in a west facing heavily forested canyon with 300 miles of snow clouds to your east with fog rolling in?
For gods sake guys, how in the h-e-double toothpicks is a gamie supposed to enforce the law if the times are not written down and distributed to all hunters? According to some of you, you can willy nilly shoot at will if your GPS tells you it is OK, or that you can still "see".
IT IS NOT OK!
The fact is that these times are set and on average are usually pretty good. Weather and topography are obvious game changers. A time had to be picked and it was. Live with it.
Lets not feel sorry for the occasional hunter who hunts past the posted end times, shoots because HE could "still see", and then gets cited.
Put yourselves in the shoes of an enforcement officer.
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Daily limits are just an estimation also :o
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Daily limits are just an estimation also :o
:yike: No you didn't....
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Official pretty much says it all. You dont get an extra 5 mins tacked on to the beginning or end time. Which isnt to say that doesnt of course happen. Its not like im on stand somewhere or cruising the woods and am checking my watch to make sure i dont miss the deadline; pianoman does tho. :chuckle:
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To me the times printed in the pamphlet are nothing more than an estimation of the actual and correct legal hunting hours. The intent of the law is for hunting hours to be based on sunrise and sunset times. Well, as I'm sure everyone knows, sunrise and sunset times are dependent on your location. So as I said, I always go by the sunrise and sunset time on my GPS. If others would rather use the times that the WDFW comes up with, fine. Either way seems legitimate to me. And in reality, it has never mattered for me. I'm always a half hour or more into legal time before I feel I can see well enough to shoot anyway.
This is crazy. You believe the "intent" of the law is one thing (assuring good light for hunters based upon sunrise and sunset) yet you feel that your GPS is better to give you proper shooting times. Then you admit that you cannot usually see well enough a half hour into shooting light anyway.... :o So which is it? Should the law be changed a half hour past when it is now?
At sunrise does your GPS know that you are deep in a west facing heavily forested canyon with 300 miles of snow clouds to your east with fog rolling in?
For gods sake guys, how in the h-e-double toothpicks is a gamie supposed to enforce the law if the times are not written down and distributed to all hunters? According to some of you, you can willy nilly shoot at will if your GPS tells you it is OK, or that you can still "see".
IT IS NOT OK!
The fact is that these times are set and on average are usually pretty good. Weather and topography are obvious game changers. A time had to be picked and it was. Live with it.
Lets not feel sorry for the occasional hunter who hunts past the posted end times, shoots because HE could "still see", and then gets cited.
Put yourselves in the shoes of an enforcement officer.
Legal shooting hours for big game are in fact "1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset". Tables are given to approximate these times.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-288 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-288)
I've used a GPS many times to see the exact sunrise or sunset time when hunting. I've compared them to the tables and they are very close. Obviously, if there is a discrepancy the published hours would be the legal basis.
For those who wish to slam the use of a GPS: please tell me the legal big game shooting hours on March 31 from the table. I've had elk permits valid through the end of March before.
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:chuckle:
Iceman, I guess you misunderstood my post. I don't shoot just because the GPS tells me it is legal. I will shoot if it is light enough to see, AND if it is legal. And no, I do not go by the times printed in the pamphlet. As I have already said twice now, the GPS gives me the precise sunrise and sunset times for my exact location. I am not going to use the times printed in the pamphlet as those are only an approximation.
If YOU want to go by the pamphlet, then do so. I don't care. However I will use my GPS as I have been doing for many years now. I no longer have a need to look up legal hunting times in the pamphlet. I am one who likes to use new technology as it becomes available. I understand some people are old fashioned and don't like change, and that's fine too. I do wonder how you know when legal hunting hours are during the months for which the pamphlet does not list, if you refuse to believe in the sunset and sunrise times from a GPS unit.
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:chuckle:
Iceman, I guess you misunderstood my post. I don't shoot just because the GPS tells me it is legal. I will shoot if it is light enough to see, AND if it is legal. And no, I do not go by the times printed in the pamphlet. As I have already said twice now, the GPS gives me the precise sunrise and sunset times for my exact location. I am not going to use the times printed in the pamphlet as those are only an approximation.
If YOU want to go by the pamphlet, then do so. I don't care. However I will use my GPS as I have been doing for many years now. I no longer have a need to look up legal hunting times in the pamphlet. I am one who likes to use new technology as it becomes available. I understand some people are old fashioned and don't like change, and that's fine too. I do wonder how you know when legal hunting hours are during the months for which the pamphlet does not list, if you refuse to believe in the sunset and sunrise times from a GPS unit.
Ok, I will play along. What are you hunting during the non-listed months?
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Still would like to hear from someone who knows from the WDFW. The words "Official Hunting Hours" seems pretty official to me. No one' slamming GPSs, Bob. It's just what the regulations in the pamphlet read. And the WAC link that you posted seems to say the exact same thing.
"WAC 232-12-288
Agency filings affecting this section
Official hunting hours for game animals and forest grouse.
(1) The following tables show the lawful hunting hours (1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset) for game animals and forest grouse (ruffed, blue, spruce) during established seasons.
(2) Exceptions:
(a) Bobcat and raccoon are exempt from hunting hour restrictions during established bobcat and raccoon seasons. However, when the area is open to modern firearm hunting of deer or elk, hunting hours are one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset.
(b) Hunting hours for falconry seasons (except for migratory game bird seasons) are exempt from these hunting hours, except on designated pheasant release sites."
Then it gives the same weekly time tables that are shown in the hunting pamphlet. Like I said, I'm sure that if you used your GPS to be exactly 1/2 before sunrise and then got ticketed, you would probably win in court. But why would you want to go through that? Why not just go by the pamphlet? Seems silly and a risk of real inconvenience and possible expense when following the pamphlet avoids either.
Hunting during a season that's not included in the time tables would necessitate using other means, like a GPS, to determine legal hours - acknowledged.
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This is silly. In real life, when I'm hunting, my rule of thumb is to begin hunting 15 minutes AFTER legal time in the morning, and quit hunting 15 minutes BEFORE the end of the legal time in the evening.
That is why the times printed in the regulations are irrelevant to me, and this is why I've never worried about the printed hunting hours differing from my GPS by 3 or 4 minutes.
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This is silly. In real life, when I'm hunting, my rule of thumb is to begin hunting 15 minutes AFTER legal time in the morning, and quit hunting 15 minutes BEFORE the end of the legal time in the evening.
That is why the times printed in the regulations are irrelevant to me, and this is why I've never worried about the printed hunting hours differing from my GPS by 3 or 4 minutes.
So, you're within legal hours then. Why the whole debate on the Official Hunting Hours v. exact 1/2 hour before sunrise, etc.? Never mind. I know the answer. It was a rhetorical question.
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This is silly. In real life, when I'm hunting, my rule of thumb is to begin hunting 15 minutes AFTER legal time in the morning, and quit hunting 15 minutes BEFORE the end of the legal time in the evening.
That is why the times printed in the regulations are irrelevant to me, and this is why I've never worried about the printed hunting hours differing from my GPS by 3 or 4 minutes.
It is not silly IMHO. Does your GPS inform you of all of the exceptions listed in the regulations regarding shooting hours?
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:chuckle:
Iceman, I guess you misunderstood my post. I don't shoot just because the GPS tells me it is legal. I will shoot if it is light enough to see, AND if it is legal. And no, I do not go by the times printed in the pamphlet. As I have already said twice now, the GPS gives me the precise sunrise and sunset times for my exact location. I am not going to use the times printed in the pamphlet as those are only an approximation.
If YOU want to go by the pamphlet, then do so. I don't care. However I will use my GPS as I have been doing for many years now. I no longer have a need to look up legal hunting times in the pamphlet. I am one who likes to use new technology as it becomes available. I understand some people are old fashioned and don't like change, and that's fine too. I do wonder how you know when legal hunting hours are during the months for which the pamphlet does not list, if you refuse to believe in the sunset and sunrise times from a GPS unit.
Ok, I will play along. What are you hunting during the non-listed months?
I have an elk permit valid through February 28 next year (2014.)
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"But why would you want to go through that? Why not just go by the pamphlet? Seems silly and a risk of real inconvenience and possible expense when following the pamphlet avoids either."
Different reasons. For me, I always have a GPS with me while hunting so it's easy to check. It's nice to know exact sunrise/sunset in my exact location, not an approximation for an entire week for an entire half of the state. It provides accurate data for every location, for every date, every time.
I'm not aware of anyone using a GPS defense when hunting earlier or later than published hours in the table. It would be interesting to see how it turned out, but I think there's a good chance the table hours would trump a GPS if there was a conflict.
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
How so? The legal hours are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset.
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"But why would you want to go through that? Why not just go by the pamphlet? Seems silly and a risk of real inconvenience and possible expense when following the pamphlet avoids either."
Different reasons. For me, I always have a GPS with me while hunting so it's easy to check. It's nice to know exact sunrise/sunset in my exact location, not an approximation for an entire week for an entire half of the state. It provides accurate data for every location, for every date, every time.
I'm not aware of anyone using a GPS defense when hunting earlier or later than published hours in the table. It would be interesting to see how it turned out, but I think there's a good chance the table hours would trump a GPS if there was a conflict.
I tend to agree. I PM'd ucwarden to get his input on this subject about which Inquiring Minds Want to Know! And LEs don't always know the laws forward and backward, either, but at least he 'll have another perspective. Off to drink for a while. Tata!
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
It says to read the damned regs.
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
It says to read the damned regs.
Scout - what do the regs say are the legal big game shooting hours on February 28?
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
How so? The legal hours are 1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset.
By reading the actual regulation, you have determined what the legal shooting hours are.
The point I am trying to get at is; all hunters need to read this section of the regs.
Pheasant and quail hunters could get quite a surprise citation if they shoot before 8am...
Goose hunters in many SW counties have different regulations....
To just rely on what your GPS displays as when sunset is, leaves hunters in the dark related to other regulations that may apply to their hunt.
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"To just rely on what your GPS displays as when sunset is, leaves hunters in the dark related to other regulations that may apply to their hunt."
You'll get no argument from me about that. :tup:
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You my friend are screwed.
What does your GPS suggest? :dunno:
It says to read the damned regs.
Scout - what do the regs say are the legal big game shooting hours on February 28?
I see.
I suppose the 1/2 hour before and after is all you could go by.
Again, interpretation by whoever is watching, why is it never clear?
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This morning the jackholes that set up 40yds away from me started blasting away 15 minutes early. We exchanged "pleasantries" and I made it my mission to call every flock of ducks away from them. Normally I would stop calling and let others have some fun. Not today, I called hard and loud and took them all.
They packed up at 0800
It isn't that hard to play by the rules.
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Since inquiring minds want to know...I checked sunset times on my GPS for each of the four corners of Eastern and Western Washington for today. Add 30 minutes to each time, and then compare them to the published "legal" shooting end time for today.
For example: in the northeastern corner of Eastern Washington the actual sunset today is 3:57 p.m. Add 30 minutes to that and you get 4:27 p.m. The published legal ending time is 4:45 p.m. so you would be safe.
However, if you are hunting in the southwestern corner of Eastern Washington, the actual sunset is 4:28 p.m. Add 30 minutes to that are you're 13 minutes past the end of the published legal shooting time.
Interesting.
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In the example you gave me, your gps will have to do.
If the time and date is printed in the regs, that's the law regardless of what the gps says. :twocents:
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This kind of interesting, as there has always been a lot of discussion about the ridiculous hunting times.
The law (WAC - Washington Administrative Code) states:
"WAC 232-12-288
Official hunting hours for game animals and forest grouse.
(1) The following tables show the lawful hunting hours (1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset) for game animals and forest grouse (ruffed, blue, spruce) during established seasons."
Now that being said, the question is can hunters hunt by the 1/2 hour rule, when the pamphlet times are different (since we know those times don't cover 1/2 hour to 1/2 hour all across 1/2 the state)?
I would say (based on only my opinion) that the answer is no, because the law then goes on to list the times for us, so we have to go by the pamphlet times.
I guess the only way to change the law would be to make it so it would read simply; "1/2 hour before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset, or the following listed time, whichever gives the hunter more hunting time." But that gets to be a real pain, but may be worth it.
Thoughts?
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Thanks UC,
If you were considering citing someone for shooting outside the posted times but according to their GPS data they would be legal, how would you handle it?
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I really think that WAC should be changed. The wording is wrong. How can they have that wording in parenthesis about 1/2 before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset when they then have the table which shows times that are not 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after. They should either get rid of the wording about 1/2 hr before and after sunrise and sunset or get rid of the table. They really shouldn't have both. (Or they could say "approximately" in front of the wording about sunrise and sunset.) But then, as Bob33 points out, when a guy is hunting during a time when the table doesn't cover that date, what is a guy to do?
It is pretty easy these days with all the electronics that people have to determine sunrise and sunset times. In some instances it is probably going to be safer going by the GPS time than by the published times in the tables, so I would think it would be something that WDFW could at least think about for safety sake.
(Obviously people still need to lookup specific hunting hour rules for various species, but when it comes to sunrise/sunset times, I think there should be alternate ways than going by the weekly tables in the regs.) :twocents:
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I can also get sunrise and sunset times from my iPhone.
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Actual sunset times can vary by up to 30 minutes in different parts of the same half state (eastern on western Washington.) Add in more variation over a 7 day period and the difference in light conditions can be enormous when using a single time.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.
Yes I would think so. Legal hunting hours are based on sunrise and sunset. The GPS gives you accurate sunrise and sunset times for your precise location. It's not an approximation like the times listed in the pamphlet.
The "LEGAL'' shooting hours are published in the regs. Black and White. Is this really a debateable subject?
If we were to hunt according to sunrise/sunset - that's what the regs would say. But it doesn't and we aren't. We're supposed to hunt according to the "EXACT" times published in the regs. Anyone on here not fully understand it?
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I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.
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Back in the day (not sure how it is now) WI had a time listed for open and close and then it had + or minus minutes to that depending what east/west zone you were in relating to the base time. Makes more sense than one size fits all, especially in a state as wide as WA.
This is neither here nor there though, legally, as it is posted in the regs. :dunno: :chuckle:
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Thanks UC,
If you were considering citing someone for shooting outside the posted times but according to their GPS data they would be legal, how would you handle it?
Once again, I am not an attorney, but there is a law which states that when two laws conflict, you must go with the law which benefits the suspect. With all that in-mind, I personally would never get down to splitting hairs with someone over a couple of minutes, so I would let it go.
But, that's me, I am not speaking for other (more black a white) officers.
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I never go by the times listed in the pamphlet. It's much more accurate to go by the sunrise/sunset times on my GPS.
Just curious bobcat, if you showed that to a leo would he/she accept it as legal?
I would think it is much more accurate.
Yes I would think so. Legal hunting hours are based on sunrise and sunset. The GPS gives you accurate sunrise and sunset times for your precise location. It's not an approximation like the times listed in the pamphlet.
The "LEGAL'' shooting hours are published in the regs. Black and White. Is this really a debateable subject?
If we were to hunt according to sunrise/sunset - that's what the regs would say. But it doesn't and we aren't. We're supposed to hunt according to the "EXACT" times published in the regs. Anyone on here not fully understand it?
I believe everyone is on the same page...that's what the law says (during those periods when they list the times), but I believe he debate is on whether that is the best way for the regs to read.
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Back in the day (not sure how it is now) WI had a time listed for open and close and then it had + or minus minutes to that depending what east/west zone you were in relating to the base time. Makes more sense than one size fits all, especially in a state as wide as WA.
This is neither here nor there though, legally, as it is posted in the regs. :dunno: :chuckle:
Times in Washington are split eastern/western but that still is too broad.
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I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.
As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.
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I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.
As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.
But keep in mind; that is only when two laws conflict. When only one law applies (as in most cases), the law is the law, as it is written
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I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.
As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.
But keep in mind; that is only when two laws conflict. When only one law applies (as in most cases), the law is the law, as it is written
Understood.
Thank you.
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guess you can tell who's from the west side if they are talking about phones & alarms. I got a watch.
:yike: got that right ...everything on the wetside depends on your watch .... :dunno: :chuckle: Do not dare shoot 2 minutes early in Skagit County ...they will hunt u down like a rabbit ...Things are a lot different over here on the wetside ...we can not run red lights ...can not take a leak outside :yike: have to work in the city but many of us that hunt love going to eastside and doing some road hunting ---drinking some beer and raising some heck :yike: dang wetsiders :chuckle: :chuckle:
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So they don't have them newfangled phones with time on the east side? The wetsiders with phones are too high-falootin'? This is getting a little weird. The debate has nothing to do with whether you use a phone, a watch, a GPS, or a frikkin' sun dial. It has to do with whether you're willing to shoot outside of the law. You don't have to be a rich guy to own a $14 phone that shows the exact time. But regardless of what piece of technology you use to tell time, you're either willing to go by the rules or you aren't. Justifying breaking the rules because you live in a certain part of the state is BS.
And BH, if you live here in Vancouver or up in Seattle, not being able to run red lights or pee outside is a good thing. Ever smell New York City in the hot summer? :puke:
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Hunted the lower Columbia yesterday. 5 of us spread out w/3 groups of decoys. Had numerous chances to shoot birds early and YES, we could see them well enough to do so but we counted down to the EXACT time just as we always do because it's the law. Plain and simple.
We ended up short of our limit for all 5 of us. We could easily have completed our limits had we taken the early arrivals but chose to abide by the law as written.
For many people, human nature drives us to 'get away' with everything we can and that's the reason laws were passed to begin with. And that relates to many things. If you disagree with the written law, work on getting it changed, don't break it just because you disagree with it or think you're exempt.
I hunt Nisqually often and have sent many an email to the WDFW concerning the wide array of laws being broken on a regular basis out there but no one seems to care. From the early shooting, hunting inside the refuge, boats with no running lights and cleaning crabs in the parking lot. The few responses I receive are always the same, that they don't start work that early in the morning. Stupid answer, I know but that's the response I usually get.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.
I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.
I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.
I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.
I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.
I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.
There is no reason for people to act like that.
I believe there is an 8 mph speed limit in dark.
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EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.
I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.
Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.
I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.
I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.
There is no reason for people to act like that.
I believe there is an 8 mph speed limit in dark.
My last answer(thanx to serious persistence)from the WDFW Enforcement, concerning the 8mph speed limit between sunset and sunrise was that the waters from the Puget Sound all the way to I-5(Nisqually Delta area) were considered 'navigable' so that the 8mph speed limit didn't apply. I reiterated the dangers but was told that they would not write a ticket to anyone screaming across the water in the dark in these areas. No speed limit in the dark on the Sound according to WDFW Enforcement per last year. Doesn't make a lick of sense but that's the answer I got.
Still doesn't excuse the absence of running lights but an enforcement officer has got to be there to witness it and they don't get up that early.
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That sucks sako.
There needs to be a "too fast for conditions" kind of rule.
I understand vessels traveling in navigable waters shouldn't need to be
slowed down under normal conditions, however, during certain times
of year there are idiots that think they need to scream across the water in
the dark and fog with no regard for smaller craft. It is a very dangerous
situation to be sure. It's not like they are heading out to sea, they are
speeding close to shore and in shallow water where non-motorized craft
are present. Even if you see them coming you likely won't be able to evade them.
Perhaps this is an issue we need to work on. I have no problem slowing down.
A day hunting isn't worth killing someone.
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Sorry, this thread is off track.
Back on topic.
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My apologies for the deviation. Won't happen again. I'm blaming Scout/Sniper.
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That sucks sako.
There needs to be a "too fast for conditions" kind of rule.
I understand vessels traveling in navigable waters shouldn't need to be
slowed down under normal conditions, however, during certain times
of year there are idiots that think they need to scream across the water in
the dark and fog with no regard for smaller craft. It is a very dangerous
situation to be sure. It's not like they are heading out to sea, they are
speeding close to shore and in shallow water where non-motorized craft
are present. Even if you see them coming you likely won't be able to evade them.
Perhaps this is an issue we need to work on. I have no problem slowing down.
A day hunting isn't worth killing someone.
There is this rule. I almost got a ticket from the C.G. for going "too fast" in the fog in the middle of Rosario Strait, being that I did not have radar (I didn't want to spend any more time than I had to in the shipping channel). But, this probably has to be enforced by the C.G. :dunno:
Back to topic. :chuckle:
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My apologies for the deviation. Won't happen again. I'm blaming Scout/Sniper.
:chuckle: :chuckle: